The Mouse Vanishes 292
countertrolling sends in a clip from Wired that begins "...researchers at MIT have found a method to let users click and scroll exactly the same way they would with a computer mouse, without the device actually being there. Cup your palm, move it around on a table and a cursor on the screen hovers. Tap on the table like you would click a real mouse, and the computer responds. It's one step beyond cordless. It's an invisible mouse. The project, called 'Mouseless,' uses an infrared laser beam and camera to track the movements of the palm and fingers and translate them into computer commands... A working prototype of the Mouseless system costs approximately $20 to build, says Pranav Mistry, who is leading the project."
forget mouseless (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Would you settle for translucent? [wired.com]
Or perhaps you meant holographic (still in pre alpha stages)
Re:forget mouseless (Score:5, Funny)
em.
gee.
that thing is the best thing.
I did a recent ranking of all the things and that one was the best.
Re:Mousterbate? (Score:4, Funny)
Your proposal is acceptable.
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Also, I am amazed that this was not invented till now. Me and my friends were discussing the same thing - IIRC - about 3 years ago?
Tappin to the music... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:Tappin to the music... (Score:5, Funny)
"I see you are holding a joystick. Starting World of Warcraft with videoconferencing enabled."
Re:Tappin to the music... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Thats why you don't hover, you raise and lower your finger when you need to tap/click, the rest of the time it rests on the surface.
Have you not used a track pad for more than 20 minutes or maybe its just Apple's track pad handling that seems to work for me, I know I hate the way a PC 'feels' now. Stupid side scroll strips, no multi-touch for right tap or scrolling with 2 fingers.
I think maybe you've just been using really shitty PC track pads, my fingers don't ever hover.
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That's one of the things I hate about real mice; or rather, how software is written. If I'm in a word processor or text editor or (sometimes) spreadsheet, I don't want to use the damned mouse at all! I wind up with "mouse elbow". Mice good for selecting a single item out of many, and a few other uses, but if I have a keyboard equivalent I avoid the mouse.
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I also put my real mouse away when I'm using a text editor...otherwise he craps all over the keyboard.
You must have a smarter mouse though, mine is really
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I'm not even sure if very optimal for netbooks - they are supposed to be, well, ultraportable. Suddenly you better find decently large, flat and solid surface, one that would have enough space for "mousing area"?
If only more of them had a clit...
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well, as long as you didn't need to type and mouse at the same time, you could just use the keyboard surface as your flat area. Most netbook/laptop keyboards are flat enough that you could fairly easily move your hand over them in a mousing gesture, just have an extra button to switch between typing and mousing.
Re:Tappin to the music... (Score:5, Funny)
If only more of them had a clit...
Story of my life, man.
I like holding the mouse over fake holding one! (Score:2)
I like holding the mouse over fake holding one!
Re:I like holding the mouse over fake holding one! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I like holding the mouse over fake holding one! (Score:4, Insightful)
Tactile feedback is actually important when it comes to being effective with your input device
Exactly. It's not JUST the screensize that makes a touch-cellphone keyboard uncomfortable.
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Well, its a bit strong to say that they have no problems. Sure, they may be able to accomplish whatever task they need to using the trackpad alone, but I think most people would that they would prefer a mouse. Just because something works doesn't mean its the optimal way to do things.
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This will be a boon for laptops though. I felt that trackpad is not as useful as mouse - this can alleviate that issue
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Me too, but not because it "feels better." I don't move my whole hand when I move my mouse - I usually use my fingers to move my mouse around quickly (thus moving large distances on my screen) while keeping my palm stationary, minimizing hand movement.
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Interesting applications (Score:5, Interesting)
Once you have technology like this up and running why limit it to the X-Y axis? Being able to manipulate the interface with various gestures in three dimensions has long been a dream of science fiction. This kind of thing just brings it closer to reality.
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I'd prefer not to be a conductor for 8+ hours a day.
Re:Interesting applications (Score:4, Funny)
Think of the arms you'd have... maybe nerds would finally break the stigma of the target of bullies! [slashdot.org]
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that's why you'll always be a second violin.
Re:Interesting applications (Score:5, Informative)
You mean like the Minority Report interface. Well, guess what, Spielbergs science advisor for the movie, John Underkoffler of MIT's Media Lab actually further developed the idea.
The current state of technology is best seen in his practical presentation [youtube.com].
There is also an article about it [singularityhub.com].
The interesting thing is (besides the tech being real), that they also extended the concept of a network, so all the displays are connected by real space. But checkout the links yourself.
Re:Interesting applications (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean like the Minority Report interface. Well, guess what, Spielbergs science advisor for the movie, John Underkoffler of MIT's Media Lab actually further developed the idea.
I've seen those presentations. While incredibly cool to watch, I'm still puzzling over the practicality of it. While everyone assumes that we can improve upon the mouse and keyboard, we still haven't done it yet. I won't be so rash as to say that they cannot be improved on, just that we're going to have to work awfully hard at it. I'd make a comparison to the bicycle. It's one of the most perfect transportation machines ever devised by man. People-powered, easy to operate and maintain. The Segway was pitched as being a bicycle replacement and while being incredibly cool, it most certainly could not be that. Expensive, requires power, would be on the sidewalk with people instead of a bike lane in the road, a perfect case-study in overengineering.
A minority report interface makes you wave your hands around like a conductor in an orchestra. That would have to get old very quickly.
Of the future interfaces, I think they still need a lot of baking.
1. Voice control. Getting better but still balkier than doing it yourself. My cell phone still can't even do hands-free dialing properly. We might finally see this implemented properly with GPS navigators, exactly the kind of tool you want to use without taking your hands off the more important task. And while the latest version of Dragon is amazing, it still can't take the place of
2. Touch screen. I still won't be convinced until they get rid of the grease factor. Would also prefer some tactile feedback. They're supposed to be doing stuff with making the screens buckle or vibrate in response to touch.
3. Pupil trackers. Still far off but has the potential of replacing the mouse if they can ever get it working right. Might still wind up as something useful only in specific cases -- you use a pupil tracker on your handheld but a standard mouse on your desktop.
Those are the only practical improvements I know of on the horizon. Gesture interfaces like for video games, that looks like it may be fun for entertainment but I don't know if it will ultimately be of practical value.
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G-Speak is also amazing. http://oblong.com/ [oblong.com]
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One day... (Score:2)
You know, a lot of people like the movie Avatar. I think my favourite part was when the researcher with the curly hair and glasses had the interface in front of him - and he wanted to talk away and take it with him, he held up his hand to it, clenched, moved his hand to his mobile device, and sprawled it - and it came right up on the device.
We are getting so close to that cool Minority Report kind of interaction.
Re:One day... (Score:5, Insightful)
Despite what they might have told you, humans do not have servomotors in their hands. We are pretty bad when it comes to making precise motions without any tactile feedback. This is why, for example, radial menus are so much better than linear menus -- you do not require highly precise motion, just a general direction.
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In terms of a keyboard, yes, I could see where you come from, tactile feedback would be necessary.
A mouse on the other hand, does not require much tactile feedback, because there isn't any when you slide it around the desk anyways, not unless you've got a roller ball (which most people hate nowadays), and a mouse click is one of those general motions, moving your index finger a bit.
I think the only thing you might miss going from a physical mouse to an implied mouse is the scroll wheel.
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"In terms of a keyboard, yes, I could see where you come from, tactile feedback would be necessary."
Are you guys serious?
Where have you been??
We've had touchpad keyboards on our phones for ages now... It's most definitely *not* necessary. Preferred maybe by some, but necessary? Not so much...
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The question is if you'd really want that kind of feedback or not.
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"Please wait, checking permissions and calculating number of objects to be copied..." (slight pause after this)
Copy progress bar appears on mobile device (with cancel option).
Time passes...
Done...
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Well, yeah, if it's done in Windows...
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Such movies are awfully unbalanced. On one hand - insane material science or energy densities, not to mention generally new physics required for interstellar travel in such style. OTOH your favorite moment was part of underlying IT, UI, etc. landscape which wasn't all that different... Yeah, "cool" - but remember, this stuff is meant to look good on a movie screen (preferably while being not too mysterious, usually?)
But where was, say, really augmented reality? (personal displays and UIs everywhere visible
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Um, did you want the Avatar experience, or the Minority Report experience? You switched movies on me there...
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You know, a lot of people like the movie Avatar. I think my favourite part was when the researcher with the curly hair and glasses had the interface in front of him - and he wanted to talk away and take it with him, he held up his hand to it, clenched, moved his hand to his mobile device, and sprawled it - and it came right up on the device.
We are getting so close to that cool Minority Report kind of interaction.
We've had very similar technology like that for a couple years now. Vista supported Windows SideShow [microsoft.com] which is essentially what that researcher used in the movie. The only thing we didn't have yet was control of it via gesture, though with touchscreens it could be done.
dpi (Score:4, Funny)
Mmmmmm..... no KISS here? (Score:4, Interesting)
This kind of device, I guess, would require a lot more computing power to use, would eventually be integrated, and at 20 bucks for the thing, would break in the blink of an eye. Also, what about lag? I hate this 2ms - 5ms lag in the iPhone...
Please, I want to keep my hardware, plastic optical mouse.
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Eh, why a mouse mem. (Score:2)
I should be able to move the pointer by pointing my finger with have to move from the keyboard.
Just need a pointer and some way to "click"
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why stop there, eyeball-tracking should be all you need for mouse movement. wink to click using either eye (close both eyes at the same time is ignored).
Not sure about the scroll wheel though.
invisible keyboard (Score:2)
There's already an invisible keyboard, and we all know how well that's selling and how it's replaced all our regular keyboards. Oh wait, it didn't? Dang.
Linux Drivers? (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok, so it costs 20$ to make. I have the 20$ I just need the instructions and the Linux Drivers. Come on MIT we are waiting! ;)
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Judging by the video, it looked like it was implemented in software. The $20 would account for a cheap camera and a cheap laser. Software simply relayed the movement in the camera image. There was also a noticeable (even a split second could be annoying) lag between input movement and result.
If this was to be offered as a commercial product, it would need to be packaged or integrated with the laptops and other devices, and have some hardware/firmware doing the dirty work. Then you'll see the hardware cost r
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Judging by the video, it looked like it was implemented in software.
And Linux device drivers are, mmm... not software?
I understand, you're saying that the implementation was done as a user space application, not using a specialized hardware device that required a new device driver. Your answer really is that the device drivers may already be installed on your Linux system, but you would need the application they wrote in order to use the new input method.
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And Linux device drivers are, mmm... not software?
Eh? And kernel is, mmm... not software? I didn't say driver was not software. But glad you cleared it up for yourself at the end.
Arm cramps ahoy! (Score:2)
Re:Arm cramps ahoy! (Score:5, Funny)
And my porn keeps scrolling rapidly up and down the screen!
About $20 to build... (Score:2)
$15 to ship from china...
$10 to distribute...
"$5" markup by retailer...
Understanding/agreeing why you have to pay $75 for a $100 MSRP $20 mouse: priceless
First... (Score:5, Funny)
...they came for my mouse's balls, and I said nothing.
Then they came for my mouse, and there was no one left to squeak up.
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..they came for my mouse's tail, and I said nothing
then
...they came for my mouse's balls, and I said nothing.
Then they came for my mouse, and there was no one left to squeak up.
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Were there really wireless mice before optical?
No (Score:2)
First, no scrolling.
Second, I still can't get my M$ wireless mice working perfectly, I can only imagine the problems I'd have with this.
I'll stick to my corded MX518 for a few more years, thanks [newegg.com]
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Ergonomics hell. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a terrible idea. The shape of the mouse provides support to your hand and allows it to fully rest most of the time. Cupping your hand over an imaginary mouse is fine for maybe an hour at a time, but is going to cause all sorts of strain for those who use a mouse for 6+ hours a day.
that's not a bug, it's a feature! (Score:2)
I can't wait to see the ads for this. "Now you can have all the repetitive stress injury of using a regular mouse, without all of that annoying tangible feedback!"
Re:Ergonomics hell. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Thank you, I was going to say the same thing.
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Ah, I see, so humanity must have suffered constant foot pain before the last few centuries of shoe design.
There is actually some good evidence emerging that suggests shoes do a lot of harm to our posture and weaken the feet in general. Barefoot running, for example, is booming because once you develop the muscles that have been left unused for so long, injury rates plummet compared to standard running shoes.
The jarring heel-toe motion that cushy shoes promote is downright bad for your body.
let alone finess in manipulation what is on the (Score:2)
screen. I don't mind virtual devices for clumsy activities, see the Natal type interface. However where I need exacting movement I doubt the "non mouse" be that accurate
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Just use a block of wood, a dead optical mouse, or a mechanical mouse with the cord snipped as a palm rest.
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I like this idea...the cordless mouse...no batteries included. They could probably make the mouse a passive RFID chip and just use proximity sensors or something.
Aside from worrying about my kids running off with it...'batteries' is the main reason I'm not impressed with 'wireless desktops'.
(And a note to the GP. I never rest my hand on my mouse ever. My palm never touches to mouse...even when I'm at rest, only my fingertips touch the plastic.)
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The shape of the mouse provides support to your hand and allows it to fully rest most of the time.
While I'm not interested in having a virtual mouse, I will note that I don't rest my hand on my mouse. Only my fingertips touch the mouse, and my wrist rests on the surface of my desk. I have no idea how normal that is -- I would assume that there's probably wide variation in mouse grips from person to person.
Analogue wheel (Score:2)
Sounds neat, and may not be all that uncomfortable (try moving thin air as if you were moving a mouse. you can still relax your hand).
However, I wish the interface itself was better. The times I'd die for a purely continuous analogue middle wheel, instead of the 'step-by-step' wheel that's forced upon us. Two wheels (one of each type) would be far better... (I suppose step-by-step does have a use for say, selecting dropdown menu items etc.).
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Why haven't you yet removed the spring that actually forces 'step-by-step'? (with some provisions, paper duct tape for example, to give the wheel some slight resistance)
Sure, UIs are a separate issue...even smooth scrolling is just a visual gimmick, taking normal step input.
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Indeed, I want the UI to be able to receive analogue-ish input, as well as the traditional clicky input.
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That flywheel sounds great. Here's a look at the special wheel:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2007815,00.asp [extremetech.com]
Wish the mouse was less heavy, bulky, and had more than a week's battery life (my wireless lasts a year or so on one battery).
mimes? (Score:2)
What's the point of this? If I have to move my hand in a similar way then I'd prefer to have the physical mouse there as a reference. I would think this would cause more strain than having an actual mouse, but maybe that's because I've been using a trackball for over a decade. Plus I fucking hate mimes and refuse to be forced to act, even remotely, like one.
Why stop there? (Score:2)
This just seems a bit legacy.
Not so useful (Score:2)
I really do not see this as a big leap apart from the fact there is no physical mouse. In fact it would be more complicated to execute specific motions to get something done. I still move my hand away from the keyboard and then wave my hands in the air to get something done.
Patent lawsuit coming (Score:2)
Rest and minimum effort. (Score:2)
I guess you could attach sensors to the facial muscles or something.
Touchpad (Score:2)
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Wacom already make multi-touch "tablet" meant to be used with your hands. Basically an over sized lap-top touch pad. They're pretty cool.
Dragging (Score:2, Interesting)
It looks like your fingers have to normally stay in contact with the table. So how does dragging work and how do you keep from dragging the mouse all the time?
Neat, but... (Score:2)
A keyboard is something I feel requires tactile feedback, a mouse is not. Tactile feedback with a keyboard provides an intuitive reference for where your fingers are placed. You don't need to look down at your keyboard to be sure your fingers are properly aligned before you start typing. Typing on a touchscreen requires constant visual checks and a ton of practice on that particular screen and layout before muscle memory can kick it. Also important is the feedback of a key being depressed. The amount of eff
Relevant TED talk (Score:2)
I'm guessing this is just a rehash of the stuff demoed here...
http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_demos_the_sixth_sense.html [ted.com]
What does Microsoft have to do with this? (Score:2)
"...this attempts to see how we can use new technology to control old technology,” says Daniel Wigdor, a user experience architect for Microsoft who hasn’t worked directly on the project.
So they asked someone from Microsoft for their input even though they had no direct impact on the project? Why? And they tag it with Microsoft? Is Microsoft trying to claim rights to MIT research?
Brilliant: worst of both worlds (Score:2)
Gee, you keep the crappy part of the mouse interface (your hand leaves the keyboard) and abandon the one mitigating advantage: tactile feedback.
Pfui....from the subject I had hoped this article was reducing dependency on the mouse in the interface.
infrared beam and camera? (Score:2)
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I'd be happy with a mouseless mouse. It would go great with my netbook... damn, I should have wited until this was standard on netbooks! Oh well, maybe they'll have a thumb drive sized one that goes into a USB port. I can only hope.
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Woo! A mouse with zero tactile feedback! Just what I always wanted in an input tool that I need to be precise.
Precise and mouse never seemed to go together to me. Now, precise and trackball, you've got something there.
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No more mouse batteries. Ever. Unless you already need to change the batteries in your hand, Mr. Steve Austin.
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I never change the batteries in my mouse, because it doesn't need any. It's also not a laser one because I need to keep re-centering the mouse on the pad and laser ones just mess that up.
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Mouse is clear enough, but bicycle?
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lolcats, long-standing tradition of "invisible X" where X is the activity it looks like the cat is performing. Quick GIS should find you plenty of examples. Just searching for lolcat and invisible gets me the bike as the second image.
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It's quite dirty already; humans don't care much.
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It feels as natural and smooth as it could.
How can you actually know that?
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