Jumbo Dual-Screen "Kno" Tablet Debuts At D8 106
itwbennett writes "The Microsoft Courier may be a dead project, but that doesn't mean you can't still have a dual-touchscreen e-reader. And a super-sized one at that, says blogger Peter Smith. The Kno, which debuted at All Things Digital's D8 conference yesterday has 'two 14.1-inch (1440 x 900) capacitive touch screens. Each screen has its own battery, giving the Kno 8-hours of battery life, but a hefty weight of 5.5 lbs. ... If Kno (the company) has its way, students will be carrying around a Kno (the device) rather than a stack of textbooks. That's the reason for the huge screens; most textbook pages can be shown 'full size' on a 14-inch screen.' Engadget, who got some hands-on time with the device, says 'the entire experience is essentially a WebKit instance.' Price is still up in the air but Ina Fried at CNET says the company is aiming for a price well under $1,000."
Different than a laptop? (Score:5, Insightful)
If its not e-ink to reduce strain on eyes, not running a real OS (as in full Windows, Linux or OS X), no full keyboard, etc. Why buy it? Under $1,000 means nothing, if its $200, yeah, I can think about getting one. For $250, I can buy a dedicated e-ink e-reader, for $350, I can buy a low end laptop or decent network, for $500 I can buy a great laptop or an iPad and anything more than $500 would just be pointless.
Really, why would I want a giant, heavy, LCD tablet not running a real OS?
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As much as everyone thinks that they would get a lot of use of a tablet in university. Th
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I see your point, but I think it very much depends on what you are studying. Laptops are utterly useless for note taking in some subjects due to the heavy reliance on diagrams and sketches. Think about how long it would take you to draw a rough P-V diagram for a Carnot cycle on a laptop vs a tablet.
Another advantage of the tablet is the noise -- imagine a whole lecture theater full of students typing away on keyboards. This is the reason why using laptops in lectures is a little frowned upon by many le
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I think though university has changed a lot since the days of floppy disks and handwritten notes. Most people who I've talked to in university say that nearly every single professor has their notes up on their site, most textbooks have electronic versions (though its questionable
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I finished undergrad three years ago, and am still at university doing postgrad work.... Some lecturers certainly do provide either hard or soft copies of all their notes, but plenty still don't. I can't see this changing, as they do it to encourage students to actually attend lectures, rather than just get the notes off the website and not bother.
There are certainly some papers in mechanical engineering that are still pretty heavy on copying down notes here -- and I don't see it as a bad thing, I actually
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Re:Different than a laptop? (Score:4, Insightful)
I find it very hard to pay attention when I'm trying to take handwritten notes, because my handwriting is so incredibly feckin slow. After my first year of Uni I realised I didn't even refer to my notes once in my revision either, so I stopped taking any. Lectures actually being interesting and well presented "forces" me to pay attention a lot more than having to take notes.
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Taking good notes forces you to think about what's being said.
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People have said this to me before, and I just don't really buy it. Like I said my handwriting is pretty slow. I'd probably be okay with a laptop, but if I'm too busy trying to take down a previous point (whether summarised or not) I won't be able to pay as much attention to the next. I always found academic learning pretty easy and note-taking just got on my nerves. Some people maybe even take notes when reading textbooks but it just doesn't sit well with me. I'm happy to go and Google stuff these days any
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That made a lot of sense to me when offered as a reason for not offering hard copies of lecture material.
Not everyone can bother write a textbook, either.
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Yeah it seems they really missed a trick.. if you're going to have two touchscreens, why not have one capacitive and one resistive? If they'd done that then I'd definitely have bought one of these as it has the best of both worlds :)
Also just having it as basically a giant textbook reader seems to be limiting the scope a bit. I'm guessing it was maybe running Android though so it will hopefully be capable of far more.
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Ah cool, didn't know anything like that was possible yet, thanks :) The XT2 looks pretty good, I wonder how well Ubuntu would support it..
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Yeah, this whole thing seems ill-conceived (Score:2)
For one thing, I really don't understand why you'd want to have a device like this with a split screen (aside from slavish copying of the appearance of a book). It would be a lot more useful to have a single screen with the same width - then you're not stuck with a giant seam down the middle of the thing. I suppose being able to fold the thing in half is useful, but I'd still prefer it as a single screen.
Also, this seems like an awful lot of money to pay for a device that just displays books. I can't help b
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Well, the folding would definitely be useful for transport and storage. I like the concept of dual screens because one can act as input device and the other as display (personally I prefer real keyboards to touch ones, but I do like the idea of a customisable input area and a lot of people these days seem happy with onscreen keyboards..), and the hinge means that you don't always have to manually support the device at an angle that isn't going to kill your neck.
Definitely think the OS is too limited though.
Dude, I was a physics major (Score:2)
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On a more serious note, I often used to write in pencil on the silver-colored palm rest area of my old compaq laptop. It was good for telephone numbers etc.
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You've forgotten all those dumb blonde putting liquid paper on the screen jokes, haven't you?
Want to bet you could convince 'her' [google.com] to use use a magic marker ... so you don't lose your work when the battery dies ...?
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when was the last time you could scribble notes by hand on your laptop screen?
Anytime you want, with a touchscreen netbook or laptop.
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Entourage Edge (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course i'll be waiting to see if there's a second generation version that fixes all the problems present in the first model. [engadget.com] In particular, it needs to have Android 2.2, complete with access to the regular app store. Both screens need to have multitouch. You need to be able to put it in laptop configuration and use the bottom screen as a virtual keyboard. And it would be nice if when you have it folded all the way backwards you could use the screen on the back to control a pointer on the front screen. (I think the Motorola Backflip does something like that?) Oh yeah, and it needs expandable memory. Now if they could get all that together in one package for a reasonable price i'd be seriously interested.
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I find the completely different format on the screens a bit distracting, but it's still better than this Kno thing.
I will just keep carrying a little torch for the Courier that could have been, and stick to my moleskine.
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>Of course i'll be waiting to see if there's a second generation version that fixes all the problems
Does the Kno have these problems or are you completely off-topic?
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Yeah, sorry - at that size, weight, and price, it's not worth it.
Wanted a courier bad. This? This doesn't hit the same buttons, and you're still stuck finger painting.
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anything more than $500 would just be pointless.
So, laptops that are powerful enough to run video editing or 3D raytracing software at decent speeds are pointless? Laptops that don't have shitty displays are pointless? Way to project your individual preferences onto an entire market.
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Apparently to you reading the post before replying is pointless, the device that would be over $500 isn't a laptop but the Kno. The op made no value judgement on laptops over $500, just saying that slate devices over that price don't really have a market segment.
Do you have problems with reading comprehension?
The post I was reply to begins with "So why not just get a laptop?" and later says "for $500 I can buy a great laptop or an iPad and anything more than $500 would just be pointless," and end with "Really, why would I want a giant, heavy, LCD tablet not running a real OS?"
How does anything in that post restrict the comment to the "slate device" market? It does the opposite, and puts laptops alongside "slate devices" as an option.
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Actually no, the other guy seems to be reading it right.. you're inferring things that don't actually seem to be implied.
or $250, I can buy a dedicated e-ink e-reader, for $350, I can buy a low end laptop or decent network, for $500 I can buy a great laptop or an iPad and anything more than $500 would just be pointless.
He says he could get a low end laptop for $350, a "great" laptop for $500 and that anything more would be pointless. I think he is using "great" as an objective term rather than just saying it would be great as a studying tool. But he's ignoring those who might want to game or do any other kind of heavy lifting on their laptop.
I don't know why you are so combatitive, you are really just making a fool out of yourself.
Exactly.
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> there is no point in gettting a slate device because general purpose machines(as indicated by the comment that you so helpfully provided) will outperform the slate for about every purpose imagineable.
Incorrect. This is the first time I've seen side-by-side e-reader screens and I've had dual monitors and web access for over 10 years now.
If you want to prove yourself right, program a web page that supports dual screens.
Can you write an HTML table with one row and two cells? Good luck, you'll be the firs
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Why e-readers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking as a student I want to know why all these companies keep thinking we want e-readers and e-books instead of textbooks. I don't want my textbook to go dead 9 hours into studying, or not be able to have 3-4 books open to 3-4 different sections each. I would however, like one for pleasure reading, but not a $500/5.5 lb machine. What exactly is this for?
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Just buy 3 of these beasts and lug 17 pounds of electronics in your backpack. That will require the optional portable nuclear reactor to power them, but then you will look cool like those Ghostbuster guys. "Egon, switch me on!"
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The big problem is, electronic documents are great for searching, but terrible at seeking (searching - you ask computer for location, it finds. Seeking
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>why the "paperless office" never really happened since screens are lousy seekers, and the only way we can fix it is ... more screens!
That's why this one has two.
> the real reason is the inability to resell
But they've mostly mastered that, haven't they?
Besides, I have no personal need for textbooks, but a device that can read them can (theoretically) read anything else.
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>Speaking as a student I want to know why all these companies keep thinking we want e-readers and e-books instead of textbooks.
Did you watch the product demo? This completely replaces textbooks. It makes Kindle look like cheap newspaper.
>I don't want my textbook to go dead 9 hours into studying
Like you've ever studied that long.
Re:Different than a laptop? (Score:4, Insightful)
not running a real OS (as in full Windows, Linux or OS X)
From the first link:
Personally, I'm liking the look of the Always Innovating Touch Book [alwaysinnovating.com]. It's much more open, in both the hardware and software. On the downside, that means it's not as polished and ready for mainstream use as the other netbooks/smartbooks.
Re:Different than a laptop? (Score:4, Insightful)
does it come with multitouch and pen interface and two screens on that $400 laptop? No?
Dell Latitude XT2 with the same sort of touch and pen technology = $2,686.00
TabletPCs Getting Cheaper... $700 (Score:2)
Dell Latitude XT2 with the same sort of touch and pen technology = $2,686.00
HP Tm2 with the same kind of pen and touch technology as the Dell Latitude XT2, and faster gfx = $700 [slickdeals.net]
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Year 2010/11 tablets will be the new "netbook," but manufacturers are doing it all wrong. Seeing how nobody wants to use the iPad formula for size and lack of Windows OS, and the prices don't present any temptation to would-be netbook byers, the industry has again misunderstood what we needed.
Eee touchscreen? (Score:3, Informative)
There's the Asus Eee T91 [slashdot.org], a touchscreen netbook. It's cheaper than the other tablets, runs a real OS (Windows XP, and you could presumably put Linux on there), and isn't too heavy.
(Unfortunately the problem with Windows 7 Starter seems to be a problem with netbooks in general - there's always XP or Linux; and I'd still rather have Windows 7 starter than a locked down OS designed for phones that can't even multitask.)
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Re:Different than a laptop? (Score:5, Informative)
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>A laptop is not the END ALL solution for computing. It is a great general purpose design, but there are many areas it can be improved.
Indeed, I think what Apple is teaching us is that major leaps forward in end-user software design are not happening on general-purpose computers. Sure, they CAN, but for some reason nobody is doing it.
Example, what made Apple great? The iPod jog wheel. Does your computer have one?
It could but it doesn't.
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#2 Laptops suck. You have a bulky device that is difficult to use unless you are sitting down. They are heavy. You're forced to haul around a keyboard and mouse you could usually do without and you don't get a touchscreen. The hardware is very variable and again the system as a whole is fragile from a technical point. Oh and they break easy - another type of fragile.
#3 e-ink still sucks. Dual mode
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why not get two iPads
You missed the point, AC. Parent's point was that the Kno isn't competing well - especially on price.They don't appear to have any special hardware or software that would set them apart from the rest of the Linux tablets. Given Apple's history for greasing their products with "cool" and given their current stance as the market leader in the tablet category, I can't imagine many students opting for the Kno over the iPad. Lets face it, college freshmen care a lot about looking cool and establishing a sense of
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>The Kno will be a hard sell without a unique selling point. (Other than a hinge)
Stunning. Are you aware that the Nintendo DS is owned by (practically) every kid in America? Or that the Kno apparently has a combined resolution of 2880 x 1800 and a 28" diagonal screen size? I'll bet that's bigger than the cheap-ass desktop monitor you used to write your lame comment.
I'd swear you people are all trolls if I didn't think you were so stupid.
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Excuse me, half that rez in one direction. I don't want to be accused of trolling myself.
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You want to look at images, charts, or graphs? Current e-readers are simply crap at it. You have to zoom in at least 3x just to read some axis labels, maybe even further to see the error bars properly, and by that time you're only looking at a section of the graph, not the whole thing. Never mind if y
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Indeed. And you can blame the media hype over the Ipad for this change of direction. Before, people knew that the e-readers had advantages over normal LCDs, and meanwhile, if you were happy with an LCD, you could get a dirt cheap netbook or "ultra mobile" laptop.
But now look at where the hype is. Expect to see companies and the media pushing expensive keyboard-less tablets, running a locked down OS designed for feature phones, and I fear that netbooks will be forgotten.
And Slashdot is just as much to blame
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>Really, why would I want a giant, heavy, LCD tablet not running a real OS?
You should try looking at the product before trashing it. What's worse, I'd love to know the thought process of the guy who modded you from +4 to +5. Seeing as how you've added nothing to the discussion (besides angst) that wasn't already in TFA.
This is really more like flamebait considering you didn't do your homework.
ePenis/ePeen (Score:2, Funny)
They're clearly making up for something. I'll buy one of these, and say to my classmates, "Hey, when you stick that iPad in your backpack, does the backpack say, 'Is it in yet?'?".
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Yes in fact I can think of one individual I work with who buys his own work laptop so he can have the biggest one in the meeting room. I am sure there will be a small market for this device.
I Hope They Improve The Performance (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I Hope They Improve The Performance (Score:4, Insightful)
True, but that really just points up that you should never, ever show something before it is ready. People--even bosses--will only see the glaring things that are wrong. They won't skip past that stuff to see the potential. I think that is one reason Apple is so successful. When they roll out a product it is really ready to go. Don't get excited, I didn't say they were perfect.
I thought... (Score:2)
I thought naming your product after your company was a Kno Kno
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I thought naming your product after your company was a Kno Kno
Well, it worked for Apple, IBM, Coca-Cola, Pepsi and countless others, so I'm not sure what your point is.
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screw MY comment... someone mot THIS guy up!
Hardware fix for a software problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Publishers damn well could spend a tiny bit of time publishing
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http://www.ck12.org/ [ck12.org]
I'd rather have a 12" tablet (Score:3, Insightful)
A second screen seems less useful than a keyboard, so I'd rather just have the latest tablet offering from Lenovo/HP/etc which converts to a tablet mode with a pen. 5.5 lb is way too heavy to be used like a book (people complain about the ipad's 1.5 lb feeling heavy), though I suppose it's comparable to very large textbook. Still, a now-standard tablet with an extra-large battery and some decent software can do most of what this hopes to do and act as a primary laptop, all for around the same price ($800-$1000).
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Yes, I don't get the fascination with dual screen tablets. They seem cool and they have some advantages, but I don't think those advantages are anywhere near as large as many people imagine. Kno talk about how people don't like the scrolling and panning (that seemed like a dig at the iPad), but I think that is total BS. Perhaps the people they asked did say that, but people often have no idea what they actually want when it comes to computer interfaces. If the screen was a flexible display that allowed you
This is really quite comical (Score:2)
LOL (Score:1)
I have never wanted anything less.
Too heavy, too big, too expensive? (Score:1, Insightful)
I grabbed an average size texbook (out of my engineering texts) and the largest from my shelf:
largest: 1.5kg, 12 inch diagonal
average: 1.2kg, 11 inch diagonal.
So for less mass than this device (~2.5kg) I can carry two decent sized dead tree books. If not all publishers sign on for the Kno, then I would need to carry the heavy Kno and paper books.
Among my course, this device wouldn't be particularly successful. Most of my subjects are lecture oriented, as such I've only needed to take more than one textbook
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We had daily Ipad stories for months before it "existed" - and in fact, we had many rumour vaporware stories on the Apple tablet/Istale/etc even before the Ipad was announced.
Amazing (Score:2)
It's amazing these people had the knowledge, funding and support to build a sophisticated device like this, based upon such a ridiculously bad idea.
How is this possible? Maybe "imagine sticking two iPad clones together as a book" looked good on paper?
Re:Amazing (Score:4, Insightful)
True, though let's face it - if this was from Apple, there'd be people here praising how revolutionary and innovative the idea was.
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Not really. People would be saying the OS is great (although closed), but that the device is too big and heavy.
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True, though let's face it - if this was from Apple, there'd be people here praising how revolutionary and innovative the idea was.
And if pigs could fly, they'd be the scorn of Earth and the final doom of humanity.
India is a madhouse of enthusiasm! (Score:2)
There was a time, not so many decades ago when, "Made in Japan" meant, "Crap".
India has a long way to go before they figure out the design and marketing game. It's an art form and they're still finger painting.
At the moment, absolutely everything about India's global marketing efforts stress me out. -I had the 'pleasure' of dealing with a couple of different go-getter hyper-competitive lunatics from India trying to engage me in business deals which had no chance in hell of happening because I was speaking
='products i want haven't been invented yet'- 1 (Score:1)
"Most products i intend to buy haven't been invented yet" - The Big Bang Theory
Well, i'd buy this. I'm all for dualscreens and like the fact that it supports both fingertouch and pens. I've never been apt at writing in anything other than italic with my pointy finger.
Why can't anyone build to this spec? (Score:1)
If you can't buy it.... (Score:1)
It ain't real - it's just a trial balloon to test the market.
We see all sorts of "iPad competitors" now that the iPad has shown it is possible to make a profit in this format, but unless it is actually for sale, it's just a marketing exercise. I get really tired of reading all these breathless "announcements" of products that never see the light of day...
Note taking is in the dark ages still (Score:2)
Finally (Score:1)