A Printer That Uses No Consumables 240
jimboh2k sends word of a printer introduced by Japanese company Sanwa Newtec, called the PrePeat RP-3100 (a play on "repeat"). It prints on A4-sized sheets of PET plastic, and these sheets can be reused up to 1,000 times, the company says. The printer uses heat transfer technology rather than ink, and so has no consumables. There's a video of the printer in operation at the link. The PrePeat costs about $5,600 and a supply of 1,000 plastic sheets will set you back another $3,300. However, the company gives a use case in which a corporation saves $7,360 per year on consumables, as well as putting less CO2 into the atmosphere. So far the PrePeat is available only in Japan.
Yes but.... (Score:5, Funny)
Are there Linux drivers ?
Re:Yes but.... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Define "consumable" (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, they're re-usable. But if it's stuck in a filing cabinet then you can't re-use it now can you.
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Unless it runs without electricity it consumes that as well.
It's steam-powered, using waste heat generated from the CPU in your computer. The rivet work on the boiler is awesome.
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Actually, it doesn't consume electrons. The utility company basically requires that you return all electrons they give you. If it consumed them, it'd require very few, E=Mc^2 and all...
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:4, Interesting)
But now you can just file documents by date, and instead of buying new paper, just reuse the oldest sheets that have already been printed. This takes care of the document retention policy at the same time as making filing extremely easy.
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Somehow, I doubt that "erase" destroys the previous version beyond forensic analysis.
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Nope, you have to print random dot patterns at least 7 times to make it difficult to recover, 25+ times to make it impossible.
Hopefully they have a sheet feeder on it so you can just tape the ends together to make it loop automatically!
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Pro-tip: Anything that's "resuable" that has a limit on the number of times it can be re-used like, say CD-RWs or this plastic paper, are actually consumable.
Still, if it really does last 1,000 times (which I doubt), and you're only printing stuff for temporary consumption (as in, you aren't keeping hard copies of anything locked in a filing cabinet), you actually could save enough money -- if you print enough, that is.
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:5, Informative)
Lookin silly? (Score:2)
You know what makes one look silly, too? Writing "their" when it should be "there"!
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:5, Informative)
These proprietary plastic sheets sound a bit like a consumable to me.
Yeah, they're re-usable. But if it's stuck in a filing cabinet then you can't re-use it now can you.
I've got a boss who prints crap out all the time. Just random junk. Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me. And those random bits of junk get thrown away pretty quickly.
I routinely have to print out documentation for various clients... Take it on-site with me... And after I'm done there, the printout gets shredded.
For non-permanent bits of information that you'd still like to take away from a computer screen, this could be very handy.
Re:Define "consumable" (Score:5, Funny)
Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me.
You're obviously one of the lucky ones, who doesn't have to deal with their boss forwarding emails to them.
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Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me.
You're obviously one of the lucky ones, who doesn't have to deal with their boss forwarding emails to them.
The emails he forwards to me are the stupid ones I don't need - chain letters and whatnot.
The ones that I actually need, with useful links and product specs and whatnot, he prints out.
And they still would be (Score:2)
I've got a boss who prints crap out all the time. Just random junk. Instead of forwarding an email to me, he'll print it out and hand it to me. And those random bits of junk get thrown away pretty quickly.
What makes you think that will also not happen a lot with these re-usable sheets?
That's the biggest problem I see, far too many people will treat them like paper and just get rid of them anyway. It might (might) work if you mandated that all printing only be done on this paper, but honestly the overhead o
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Have you been forgetting to put cover sheets on your TPS reports again? Didn't you get the memo? I'll go ahead and get you a copy of the memo.
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At $3.30 per sheet, your boss would have to hand you one page per working day for several years in order to pay for each sheet of this, and that's assuming he doesn't circle something with permanent marker, fold it, crease it, wrinkle it, spill coffee on it, or staple it to another document. If any one of those things happen it can't be fed through a printer again.
And "heat transfer" means some form of toner and a crapload of electricity. So you still have a consumable and electricity to contend with, and
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We could use some more forward thinkers like yourself with innovative ideas to neutralize the carbon neutral.
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Niche application, but a decent one.
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Big stores periodically rearrange the shelves on purpose to get you to wander around more. If you already know the layout, you are less likely to impulse shop from seeing something you weren't actually looking for. Watch that superwalmart. After it is "finished", you'll notice them doing it again a few months later.
That is absolutely true. What is funny about that is that a year or two ago somebody did another study and discovered that while there is a significant amount of impulse buying, the people who spend the most money don't impulse buy. Which fits with what I find, I get angry whenever I go into a store I frequent on a regular basis and can't find what I am looking for where I expect it to be. I tend to shop at the same stores all the time. However, those stores are stores where I can go in, walk straight to wh
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Not to mention...
For me when ever I print something out it is for the following reasons
1. It is something I needed stored for a long time and put cabinet and pulled back if I need it again and it is not on my computer.
2. For something I will need to take a pen and sketch or in general mark up... Check boxes, take extra notes around or highlight key fields.
3. Something I can fold up into say a booklet (a lot of people doesn't like doing this but I do) so I can read more carefully.
This type of printing will m
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This is perfect for
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Yeah, they're re-usable. But if it's stuck in a filing cabinet then you can't re-use it now can you.
And, even in a good office, I'd be amazed if even half of them got recycled into the system, and not lost/thrown away.
Confidential documents?
* Recovery of the last print might be possible?
* It's a pain to erase the pages (refeeding into an appliance)
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By that logic we'll never have anything truly green.
This is not the most appropriate tool for hard copies of records that are going to be stashed in a filing cabinet for twenty years. However, for uses in which the paper is used once or twice and then discarded (handouts at a meeting, internal memos, etc.) this would be perfect.
A business with at least 100 people in it could probably justify the expense.
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It's the usual agenda of course. Change is bad, and change that requires me to think and make a decision on a regular basis is worse.
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Under a very narrow set of conditions... (Score:5, Insightful)
Great, so long as you never pin the paper up, fold, wrinkle or spindle it. Never get oil on from your fingers on it, coffee stains, pen marks, or tape residue.
Until they include a box that will shred the old "Paper", melt down and extrude new paper, this is worthless.
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Although i guess that's a feature, if you can't use sta
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Great, so long as you never pin the paper up, fold, wrinkle or spindle it. Never get oil on from your fingers on it, coffee stains, pen marks, or tape residue.
How well these print-outs stand up to light and heat?
Can you leave them on the seat of your car on a hot summer's day?
If document retention is an issue, will an ordinary fire safe or cabinet do the job?
usefullness? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's great and all, but if I was keeping the physical piece of "paper" I wouldn't need to print it in the first place, and if I did need to print it, I would want it to be permanent, so I wouldn't be ever re-using the sheet. I print things either because other people need them, so I'd be giving away all my expensive plastic sheets in no time flat. Or because I need to keep a permanent copy, so I would never re-use the plastic. Many of those I didn't give away would have been cut up to make quick reference cards, labels, etc.
If they came up with a way to do this with plain paper (say some form of laser etching which required no toner/ink/film/etc) I'd be interested, but as long as it only works with it's own proprietary "paper" this is pretty much useless.
Re:usefullness? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Not always feasible. For instance I code more efficiently if I can print out a copy of what I'm working on (often on multiple pages), lay out the pages on my desk (or maybe the odd one here and there that are relevant), and figure out what I want/need to do. This is particularly true if I'm trying to get familiar with someone else's code. However after having achieved my goal, that print out is obsolete because I'll have changed/rewritten some (or a lot) of it. Another case would be data models produced by
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I do this on occasion too, usually when I want to compare several similar chunks of code to extract common functionality. But when I do this, I want to take notes, next to the relevant code chunks, on the paper. Doesn't seem like this tech will work well in that scenario.
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A lot of hardcopy is only read/used once or twice and then recycled. Sounds like a great idea to me.
If you're printing stuff out to only read it once, maybe you should ask yourself if it wouldn't be better to just read it on the screen instead.
Because most business managers buy the cheapest possible 15" monitors for their employees, the ones with the analog inputs only, and then they say things like "I don't like reading on computer screens".
Meanwhile, DELL will sell a 24" high resolution LCD [dell.com] with good contrast and deliver it for $189, which is about the equivalent of 60 sheets of this magic reusable paper. Think of the monitor as super-magic paper that can be reused an almost infinite number of times!
I work as a consultant, and have to process o
True for the individual, not the office use case (Score:2)
Vast numbers of trees are killed every year because office workers print out stuff for each other, then chuck them in the bin /recycle box.
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In the vast majority of cases paper comes from trees from tree farms that have existed for generations. Why? Because land is not cheap. It's more economical to reuse land and plant new trees then it is to cut down old forests and plant new trees. The tail of the disappearing forest is a modern myth.
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True, we're not going to run out of trees. The issue is more about the cost (both monetary and energy-wise) to produce the paper from the trees.
So, to me, the real question is: is one of these re-usable plastic sheets more efficient (both cost-wise and energy-wise) to produce than 1000 sheets of paper AND offsets the cost of purchasing and maintaining two types of printers (you'll undoubtedly still need traditional laser printers for some applications) AND the additional electricity to power both of them A
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Or because I need to keep a permanent copy, so I would never re-use the plastic.
It's curious you say that... You consider a paper copy "permanent"? I've always considered the electronic copy to be the "permanent" and original document (presuming it's well backed-up), while a paper copy is a transient snapshot, something that can be handed out for easy reference during a meeting and discarded at whim, because one can always print more.
I wonder if the lack of paperless offices around the world are as much about psychology as practicality? There are probably very few cases where printe
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It's quite simple: We KNOW paper can last over 1000 years and still readable with some care. Otoh, there's magnetic media from the 70's that will never ever again be readable, simply because the media has degraded. And even worse, there's optical media from the 90's and early 2000 that has already simply degraded(Lost a couple of thousand photos that way: Burned on quality CD's, stored in envelopes in a climate-controlled vault. Got it out last year, to drag it all on to DVD's instead, noticed that the CD's
Heat Pen? (Score:2)
Yeah (Score:4, Insightful)
This is nice, but misses the purpose of more than half of most printing - to distribute to other people and to mark up your own copies. If I give anyone else the sheet, it's no longer recyclable by me. If I mark up a hard copy - or just make notes while I'm in a meeting - it's no longer reuseable. What about staples?
If I've got a dozen people in my office, it would be cheaper to simply buy them each a KindleDX - and I'll never run out of paper there.
(Yes, I'm being negative today. I'm sure this has a niche - like a training center where you can update your handouts for each class, as long as thy can't take them home)
Staples? (Score:2)
Oh come on.
Paper clips.
Bulldog clips.
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Those all sound great, until you realize-
Most people who are actually engaged in a meeting will make notes (or just doodle) on the handouts. Even if only 1 in 10 marks their sheets, you've cut the duty cycle on this paper to 1/100 of its design life (and made the sheets essentially $0.33 each).
If I give someone a draft to review, I expect it to come back with editing marks on it - in a color which stands out (like red). That will make the sheets useless.
Unless you are making a hard copy original to send to
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Don't you realize that if this technology caught on then you'd set yourself up to sell a heat pen to go with the paper? Just like those cold soldering irons, you'd just heat-r-up and make your annotations. Wham. Never need an ink refill/sharpener again!
Of course, there are battery considerations. Those would probably balance out the "green" factor.
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As a teacher I make hundreds of copies each day. This could save school districts MILLIONS of dollars.
What is the condition of sheets that you collect after the class? How many can be reused?
And while on the subject, why don't you reuse the paper copies that you make?
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I still can't find a use where the usage of the paper is gentle (so it can be reused 1000 times), and the end user neither keeps the sheet nor makes any marks on the paper whatsoever. At the cost of the paper, the break-even point is between 100-600 reuses per sheet depending on how expensive your toner costs are. You would have to use the same sheet every single day for a year just to break even. I can't imagine what that sheet would look like by then in the hands of...well, any grade student.
Maybe tests w
ymmv for sure (Score:2)
I really wonder how much savings can be gotten here. Personally I'd estimate about 70% of my prints ends up in my archive: I only print out stuff that I want on paper for administrative reasons. For looking up later, or for tax/legal reasons.
The 30% rest is mostly misprints, and of those about half ends up in my archives again: I always attach receipts from shops to a standard A4 size paper, number them, and in future I can always find them again.
And what is still left over... well my little kid loves to
Naysayers (Score:2)
Despite the naysayers this sounds like a great addition to many offices. Lots of paper sent for recycling.
In my case that means shredding it, turning it into paper briquettes and burning it in my woodburning stove. Like free heating from the old office waste... Actually come to think of it this is a shit product, forget the running costs, look at the capital expenditure!
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It kind of sounds interesting in theory, but I see two big issues. One is of course price, its way more expensive then just a laser printer and regular paper for a start. The other issue is simply user behavior, can you really train your users to behave well enough that a sheet survives anywhere near 1000 prints? Even 100 reprints sounds like a stretch, yet it is not enough to make it cheaper then paper. There are also use cases where its not clear how to handle them. What is if you want to mark something?
Re-usable paper = wear and tear (Score:2)
How easy is it to re-use plastic sheets if they've been torn, stapled, folded, dog-eared, and so on? In the real world things experience wear and tear. In most printers I'm familiar with, the paper path is fairly sensitive to these kinds of irregularities, so unless they are using something more like the bypass tray, I don't think that this printer is going to be all that reliable or fun to deal with.
False accounting? (Score:2, Interesting)
"about 0.3 yen a sheet/number of times of rewriting."
Correct me if I'm wrong but this cost assumes you don't need to keep a hard-copy, i.e., you're printing to said sheet 1000 times.
In other words, if you never keep a copy and always reuse the sheets you'll save cash... The ratio of sheets you wish to keep to sheets you consider disposable has to be high; why else would you print something if not for long-term reference?
Also, staples?
Uh.... no. (Score:2)
If you ask me, I think that epaper, eink, or some other bistable and non-emissive display technology will be the way that people in the future will manage documents that aren't intended for permanent posterity.
And with the unit itself priced at over $5K, I really don't see this taking off anytime soon.
I've been in the copier printer business for 30 (Score:4, Insightful)
We've gone electronic (Score:5, Insightful)
That doesn't mean we don't generate paper. I go through 500-1000LF of 36" wide paper a month, plus probably 1500-2000 sheets of letter (we only have 4 employees). What we don't do is keep the paper. Everything either gets scanned and the paper recycled, or printed to PDF and never committed to dead tree form. The savings isn't in paper and printing - it's in storage. I was looking at having to buy storage space and filing cabinets (very expensive for large format drawings). At $1-$1.50 a sheet at the service house, it was cheaper to scan and recycle than to buy cabinets and store. Two years ago we dropped $15k on a large format scanner (well, it copies and prints, too). The result is everything we've ever designed it on the servers (and backed up in two places) and at our fingertips in less than a minute, and I'm not paying for a storage unit somewhere.
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Now, I'm having the same problem getting people to give up a fax machine, because scan to e-mail is faster, and cheaper, but people say "we've always had a fax machine".
Sending a fax: (1) walk to fax machine, (2) put down document, (3) enter fax number, (4) press send, and done.
Scan and send as e-mail: (1) walk to scanner (same as my fax, printer and copier so at least it has a sheet feeder, most stand-alone scanners don't), (2) put down document, (3) return to computer and open scan software, (4) scan document, (5) enter name and location to store scan file, (6) create new e-mail, (7) enter address, (8) enter subject and body, (9) add attachment, (10) remember where it w
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1. Put down document on printer/scanner combo device's page feeder
2. Type the email address of recipient on the touch screen display on that device
3. Push send.
Benefits aside from speed and ease of use are that now the recipient has a digital copy without having to scan it themselves and in my experience the quality is pretty much always better than a fax machine.
I know you said that for you faxing was the easier option, but I don't think gp was advocating the
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Or get the best of both worlds and use a fax to email [srfax.com] service [efax.com]
False rejection of your e-mailed document (Score:2)
5) have it rejected because the subject and body look spammy
The junk e-mail laws are much weaker than the junk fax laws. So people have to set their junk rejection filter higher.
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Fax machines live on because of security concerns. E-mail still isn't viewed as a secure medium by many businesses and government offices. Also just about everyone has a fax number and machine that you know someone is going to monitor as opposed to a spam filtered and ignored "main" e-mail address.
Also do scanned and e-mailed signed documents carry the same legal weight as signed documents that were faxed? In theory they are exactly the same, but no one seems to view the e-mail method as legit.
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Also do scanned and e-mailed signed documents carry the same legal weight as signed documents that were faxed?
As far as I know, they do. Scanned images are much clearer and have better resolution, and the PDF with the scan can be digitally signed too.
In fact your comment exposed another hole in this "reusable paper" plan - many papers are printed so that someone can sign them, stamp them, or both.
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Let me rephrase it a bit:
You are giving a child several sheets of paper, each worth TWO ice cream sandwiches, and you expect them to not "lose" any of them?
That depends on availability of people who buy these sheets but, given the ingenuity of children and greed of adults and existence of eBay, this is guaranteed.
Printing to eBook (Score:2)
In any normal company, I would rather buy a large eBook reader (such as the iRex), that also has an option of annotating documents. In that way you don't have the weight of the initial expenses. And you have things like (rudimentary) search options and such. A long running tablet PC may also step into this niche. It's amazes me that many of these eBook readers don't come with a "printer driver". It would be a good way of converting documents to the right format and it would serve as a nice way of showing th
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There are of course pdf printer drivers, but the additional steps of copying would make most people print to paper instead. It would also not compress images to e.g. 16 bit grey level. But most of all people don't think of pdf when they want to view something when they are away from their pc.
Okay, I've just found a use! (Score:2)
I know, I know, I just dumped on this in a previous post - but I've found an application (at least for my office).
I deal with architectural prints which are usually D or E size (thats ~A1/A0 I believe). Often we'll have architects send us 6 or 7 revisions of 10-20 sheets for a small project. It's nice to be able to see them "full size" and make minor marks, but when the next revision comes out that set gets recycled. We could easily reuse these sheets several times. Of course, we'd need some kind of heat pe
I have a system that really has no consumables! (Score:2)
And that can be reprinted in less than 0.01 seconds. In color!
It needs no. consumables. at. all!
I’s called a display!
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Paper has value (Score:2)
The whole problem with this concept, is that it fails to realize is that, as seemingly insignificant a piece of paper is, it is a thing, and it does have value. This value is in its permanence. Good paper products will utterly outlive us, and that's why we use them.
It is why some people insist on a paper audit trail when we vote.
It is why we tend to like to get paper receipts and statements.
It is like even a pointless award or certificate, but printed on nice paper, can mean a great deal emotionally.
So,
Great for the International Space Station (Score:2)
... or any other isolated work environment, like a submarine, military base, etc.
But as soon as those plastic sheets start making it home in people's brief-cases and notepads, the cost of operation starts to creep up.
Its an interesting niche product that solves one problem ( consumables ) at the expense of creating another problem ( proprietary, expensive print substrate ).
-S
stupid execs (Score:3, Informative)
All it takes is for one management-type to keep a 100-page report on her shelf to blow your entire savings for the year.
BS (Score:2)
the bean-counter math does not work out (Score:3, Insightful)
The math just does not work out.
At $5,600 for the printer, just the interest alone is $300 a year. For that you can buy 100,000 sheets of copy paper a year. If you expect the printer to last 5 years, that's another $1,100 that could go towards buying almost 400,000 sheets of paper.
And I doubt if the plastic sheets can be reused more than 10 times in a typical office situation. They're going to get wrinkled, bent, curled, and soiled after just ten cycles. Most printers balk at feeding paper that is even slightly curled. Let's assume 10 uses is a practical limit. So this 33 cent sheet of plastic is now costing you 3 cents a page, ten times more than the equivalent piece of paper.
Now a good deal.
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> The math just does not work out.
Math doesn't matter. Only "greenness" counts.
Cost (Score:3, Interesting)
I keep having to do math to debunk so many reports. The page that uses .3 yen as the sheet cost does not take into account sheets that are not returned. They are calculating it as if it is a closed system where every sheet print will be returned in re-printable condition. Pages can be lost, damaged , written on, or stored and never returned. The true cost of using these sheets is as follows;
((purchase cost) + (replacement cost of non returned sheets))/cycle size
Replacement cost is the cost to replace each failed sheet (damaged or not returned) over the life of one page as follows;
(purchase cost * failure rate * cycle size)
Therefore with a purchase cost of 300yen, a failure rate of 10% (I am being generous) and a cycle of 1000 the cost per printing would be;
(300 +(300*.1*1000))/1000 = 30yen.
Even with the questionable power costs added that would be almost 4 times as expensive as plain paper.
Bump that up to a 30% failure and you get a cost of 91 yen/printing and 11x the cost of plain paper. To the "no shedding costs" comments; there is still a cost to erase the pages before they are returned to the printer for recycling.
They also do not factor the cost of collecting, sorting and cleaning the returned pages .
Another aspect not touched on is print speed. According to the specifications the printer takes 3 to 6 seconds per page to print. I am talking about the commercial printers not the desktop version. Yeah I am going to wait ten minutes to print 100 pages. That is very poor throughput.
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The printer also erases the pages... so no actual requirement to "clean" the pages, just feed them in and it erases and writes the new info onto the page.
Not saying I think this is a great idea for home use, but maybe some businesses could use it.
However, unless they've figured out how to make this special paper not turn black if placed on or near a heat source, these pages will be somewhat useless.
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Cleaning as in dirt, spills, erasable markers etc. You would not want to waste $3.30 just because of a little coffee. The website says they can be washed with water then dried before re-use. There are also documents that are confidential that should be erased before putting back into the sheet pile.
Japanese Businesses Waste a Lot of Paper (Score:2)
I've lived over here in Japan for the better part of 10 years, and I can totally see how this could make a difference. Every meeting I go to has a paper agenda handed out at the door, which is promptly thrown away as soon as I'm back to my office. My pigeonhole fills up every few days with--I'm not kidding--paper versions of the emails I've gotten.
Culturally, Japan is a lot more hands-on than the US. A lot of paperwork is still done by hand and most purchases are done with cash. Paper, actually, is a sacr
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eBooks: print out your ebook onto something somewhat resembling an actual book, with real pages!
Then, when you're done, feed the pages back into the printer and print another book. It might work if it had some kind of reversible binding process that wasn't too cumbersome.
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That doesn't make much sense to me. Regular books may run from 150 to 400 pages, so you're looking at least $1000 in "paper" costs. For that price, you could purchase two Kindle DXs, or an iRex. Both of these options save you the printing time and allow you to store and view multiple books; the iRex would also allow you to make annotations.
Whereas, if you print on this special paper, you wouldn't be able to annotate or write on it, since you need to reuse the paper. That pretty much negates the advantage of
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They are smaller pages, though, and you get four per sheet from the fold. They do, however, need to be ever so slightly different sizes and loaded into the machine in a precise order.
So yeah, way more effort than it's worth, although I can see "reusable book" kits adding circa $300 to the cost of the already expensive printer.
Easier to get a NooKindleRS-505, probably more convenient, too. Unless you're a curmudgeon who needs to have something to turn, but still wants to enjoy electronic distribution of bo
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The printer I'm getting ready to market kills less kittens.
Fewer. Fewer kittens use less kitty litter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKlTAxTvKkY [youtube.com]
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"This video contains content from Sony Pictures, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."
You insensitive clod.
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Get a Kindle DX (Score:2)
It looks like paper, is lighter than a full stack of these sheets, and can be rewritten a many times as you want. For about 1/12 the cost of the printer alone.
Did you notice that the printouts in the video looked a bit washed out, like it doesn't really get a good black?
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If you only have a single notice board your probably better off just getting a flat screen monitor that displays the notices (probably cheaper given the cost).
You are ignoring the cost of energy for that flat screen monitor. Even if you nail a Kindle to the wall, it still is far more expensive than a sheet of paper.
If you are in saving mode, the best way to maintain a notice board is through some sort of a Web page on your LAN. That is truly free. However a good deal of government papers must be "promi
1970's (Score:2)
We had thermal printers in the seventies. They suck.
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So the students will simply return the sheets?