Mixed Conclusions About Powerline Networking vs. Ham Radio 343
Barence writes "Since writing about the success he's had with powerline networking, a number of readers emailed PC Pro's Paul Ockendon to castigate him for recommending these products, such as HomePlug. They were all amateur radio enthusiasts, claiming the products affect their hobby in much the same way that urban lighting affects amateur astronomers, but rather than causing light pollution they claim powerline networking causes radio pollution in the HF band (otherwise known as shortwave). Paul's follow-up feature, 'Does powerline networking nuke radio hams?' documents his investigation into these claims, which found evidence to support both sides of an intriguing debate."
It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
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This is just about the most ignorant, one-sided article I've ever read. It amounts to "Maybe it causes, problems, but HAM guys can cause problems, and oh yeah, they're dinosaurs, so fuck 'em."
I wonder what this worthless piece of shit will be saying when some natural disaster hits, all the lines are out, but because he and other shitheads basically wiped out the HAM community to get their pr0n, instead of dedicated volunteers firing up their diesel generators to help co-ordinate rescue and relief efforts,
Big Props (Score:5, Insightful)
Props to the egghead who called me after Katrina with a message from my sister saying she was okay.
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What are props?
They help airplanes fly.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
I did, and you me gave a license saying that I may operate my toys. Furthermore my transmitters, if operated correctly, may cause your unlicensed devices interference which you must accept. You however may not interfere with my toys.
73
DE K2TY SK
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
So long as the ham is following the rules, regulations and operating to good engineering practices, any help you get from him in minimizing interference issues is out of the goodness of his own heart. Not because of the law. The law says it's your problem and the ham has no obligation to fix it. It's all on you.
But, this is off topic here and I'll leave it to you to educate yourself on how things really work.
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From what I have seen, Ham's are pretty much self policing. The people that you get the most problem from are CB operators who have poorly tuned boosters.
From what I have seen, (Score:4, Funny)
Ham's are pretty much self policing. The people that you get the most problem from are CB operators who have poorly tuned boosters.
I totally agree 1000%. I recall one person who lived across the street from me had a CB in his house. We could always tell when he talked on the radio because our toaster would start talking. We never had problems with hams, who also lived near us, though.
Back then I wanted to get my license but I had trouble with Morse Code.
Falcon
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Guy writes an article about a product.
2. Guy gets feedback, some of it far less than civil, stating that he was being irresponsible in his product recommendations.
3. Guy, rather than dismissing the issue as no doubt many would, actually does some research and writes a follow up.
I hardly think that this qualifies as "just about the most ignorant, one-sided article" on this topic, at least among those that you've read. This guy isn't a government agency or an academic group tasked with doing research into public safety concerns so it isn't his job to launch a comprehensive study into the issue.
I get that there seem to be some credible concerns, but you aren't going to win anyone over by making hyperbolic claims about anyone that fails to agree with you. Posting "ignorant, one-sided" insult laden posts on Slashdot isn't exactly helping your cause.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
The number of people willing to maintain ham gear and skills waiting for the day it'll be useful is, presumably, a fair bit smaller than the number willing to pursue ham day to day as a hobby.
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Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
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For $15 to take the test, and then $200 or so for a decent radio you can have a hobby that is a blast. I regularly talk to people on radio nets (basically where a group of people get together at a desired time, and all talk about random subjects).
I am 21, and I am considered one of the young ones, even so it is interesting to see how much HAM radio in general is used in various situations to get information from one location to another quickly. HAM radio groups also tend to be available at all kinds of diff
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Unfortunately, the range has sorta sucked recently....stupid sunspots, we miss you.
(Call Sign: N3ZQV)
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VHF is pretty useful in a disaster too. All it takes is one guy climbing/driving up to the top of a mountain who can do simplex relay for the entire massive area.
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I'm pretty sure the machines that take over will be clever enough to jam ham frequency ranges though.
What makes you so sure? You're one of the machines aren't you?! You've blown your cover!
Burn the witch, burn the witch!
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Are you sure you don't mean AARL [arrl.org] instead of AARP? AARP [aarp.org] is a senior citizens' group.
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When you're in a disaster, you're not really interested in getting help from other people who are also in the affected area, who are also without power.
You want help from people *outside* the affected area. And if this goes forward, they won't be able to hear you. Which means there's no reason to keep the radios in the first place.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
When you're in a disaster, you're not really interested in getting help from other people who are also in the affected area, who are also without power.
You want help from people *outside* the affected area. And if this goes forward, they won't be able to hear you. Which means there's no reason to keep the radios in the first place.
That's as wrong as it could be.
It's for this reason that hams, at least in the US and Canada, and likely other places, stage what's called Field Day every year. They gather in groups and operate under what are essentially emergency conditions. There is some operation from commercial power, but that may be sporadically available even in a disaster. It may not be right there at your house, but if it's available anywhere nearby, you can gather up all your mobile gear and go to the firehouse, police station or hospital where you're likely to have generators kicked in. The radio gear local authorities have (as shown on 9/11) is often not inter-operable. To this day, despite all the FEMA talk. A huge number of hams are already trained and certified to do this and they have regular drills. If you read the history of the Amateur Radio Service, its original mission was to have a ready reserve of trained, competent communicators in case they were needed for the war effort. They were needed and were deployed with amazing speed.
Any time your town has one of those realistic hurricane, earthquake or flood drills, you can bet there are hams among the first responders, specifically because they know that phone lines go down and cell towers either lose power or get overloaded.
Aside from operating on commercial power, Field Day is mostly based on self-provided power. Hams use generators, solar power, batteries and any number of other power sources. Yes, some even make use of small generators powered by someone on what looks like a stationary exercise bike. It may come as a surprise that a low-power (less than five watts) radio can be an amazingly effective communications tool in the hands of a trained, experienced operator.
Note also that little, if any, of this communications capability is funded by the government (another way of saying tax dollars out of your pocket). It's largely individually self-funded by individual hams or by radio clubs to which they belong. Many hams also maintain and constantly verify operation of gear collected in "go bags" -- duffels or cases containing everything necessary to travel a hundred miles and set up a fully operating station within a very short time. One friend in particular has everything needed for a station stored in well under two cubic feet in his (small) car trunk at all times. I've seen him open the trunk and get on the air within fifteen minutes. If AC is available, he plugs in his power supply. If not, he has fittings on his battery that he can clip into in seconds.
Aside from that, many hams also have constantly-operating mobile units in their personal vehicles. I listen to a group five mornings a week where half the operators are mobile. And yes, they are exempt from (at least) California laws mandating hands-free cellphone operation. Like pilots, ambulance drivers, police, etc., they are trained to drive and communicate safely at the same time.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
As a ham myself for almost 20 years, I understand what you're saying, but all the VHF/UHF in the world isn't going to help in a regional disaster where the scope of the 'dead zone' is beyond VHF/UHF range... like Katrina, or a tsunami, or anything else that affects a large geographic region (like maybe when the Yellowstone caldera finally blows).
At some point, you have to get help from outside the affected area - and probably the only way to contact them (outside of satellite) is going to be HF. If the people who have power CAN'T HEAR YOU DUE TO LOCAL INTERFERENCE ON THEIR END, then what have you actually accomplished? Yes, you've done some local triage. You've probably gathered a list of needed supplies and ordered your 'need' list.
When you've done as much as you can inside the affected area, who are you going to ask for help now?
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...and when a disaster strikes, there won't be any BoPL in use at the disaster site, as there's no power, and the other disaster sites scattered around the country to handle the radio traffic can EASILY be used at locations where interference from BoPL is either minimal or non-existant, since they can have power anywhere they want to and choose their location accordingly in advance. Honestly, this is not a real sxcenario for concern preventing BoPL deployment.
Further, HAM is not longer the only emergency l
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:4, Informative)
If we're keeping HAM around for a few thousand (at most?) true hobbyists, using the excuse that it's a disaster tool, then that's a false need to support an old and dying hobby, and it's preventing rolling out commercial BoPL services to support millions of americans with a cheaper and more stable communications system, and holding back an economy worth billions of dollars for some 50+ year old tech. How stupid is that?
So few people use HAM anymore, we could also just as easily slash the available HAM freequency swath down to a fraction of what it is assigned for, and put BoPL at the other end of the original range, accounting for harmonic frequency crossover, and simply by simplt FCC legislation completely end this debate once and for all...
There are 16660 HAM operators who hold active licenses in the state of Georgia alone, I'm one of them who is a member of a local ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Services) group. Are we the only communications in a time of emergency? No, but we are very effective and can be on the scene ready to go quicker than you'll get a comsat system into many rural areas. We don't just provide communications during emergencies we sometimes provide radio communications at large events where the local police may not have effective radio coverage.
HAM's are not necessarily opposed to BPL, we just want it done right. The standards that are being pushed allow for too much interference. BPL should be able to be configured to use a certain slice of the spectrum and not the wide band it uses now (not sure about BPL but I know the home adapters use 2-30 MHz) Would it hurt the FCC to insist that BPL narrow down the frequency range they use and keep it outside of the Amateur bands?
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Quote:
If we're keeping HAM around for a few thousand (at most?) true hobbyists, using the excuse that it's a disaster tool, then that's a false need to support an old and dying hobby, and it's preventing rolling out commercial BoPL services to support millions of americans with a cheaper and more stable communications system, and holding back an economy worth billions of dollars for some 50+ year old tech. How stupid is that?
End Quote
This reply is very ignorant to all the hundreds of thousands of people in
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Seeing as worldwide contacts can be made on a few milliwatts of RF power under favorable conditions, a BPL system in one country wiping out communications on the other side of the world is not at all farfetched....
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:4, Insightful)
Say you are in New Orleans, and a big storm knocks out your power. You want to get a message to your mom in Chicago that you are OK (so she doesn't worry and have a stroke or something). So your friendly neighborhood Ham will fire up his rig on battery or generator, relay a message to another Ham in Huntsville, who picks up a phone and calls your mom in Chicago. Only problem is if BPL is deployed in Huntsville, that message ain't getting through to the Ham operator there. Or to any other Ham who's area has deployed spectrum polluting technologies.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, it's fairly common to have international interference that prevents communication on the lower bands (160m/80m). So, yes, interference generated in China _can_ cause hams in the US to not be able to use that frequency range.
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Other way around. Interference in china keeps the chinese from hearing us. Interference here keeps us from hearing the chinese.
Either one prevents communication.
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Fuck you dipshit.
Hammies saved the day in many cases, both helping out with relaying official emergency communications and by relaying non emergence communications ("tell my wife I'm here and I'm safe with the kids").
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
And I would MUCH rather trust the organization of a relief effort to trained professionals -- like state, federal, and military emergency staff -- to a bunch of "volunteers."
You are obviously not from New Orleans.
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Yeah, FEMA has SUCH a stellar track record lately.
"Atta-boy Brownie!"
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
Wow. I mean wow what a very ignorant statement.
Obviously you don't know that most first responders during a disaster are volunteers. I will just briefly mention how ineffective FEMA, the state of Louisiana, the Orleans parish, and the city of New Orleans were during the recovery efforts of Katrina. Thank God there were church groups, American Red Cross, Amateur Radio operators, and other voluntary relief agencies or the disaster could have been much worse.
Usually there are more falaties after the disaster strikes than during. Thankfully we have a community of volunteers willing to help mitigate the danger. May I add at their own expense and peril.
Bill
Sorry, that doesn't make sense. (Score:5, Informative)
Frequency planning is an area you would need to study further before you could make sensible statements about it. Sorry, and good luck if you do decide to look into it.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:4, Insightful)
I grew up in a town called Boulder Creek. Our fire department was staffed entirely by volunteers, and I would trust them with my life.
I generally prefer that the people providing my health and emergency services do it because they are genuinely passionate about it. I believe passion produces better results than a sense of obligation.
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If you're trolling, you've got a lot to learn--that one was WAY too obvious.
April, 2009: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/22/2043235 [slashdot.org]
From TFA: [perens.com]
The first lesson is what stayed up: stand-alone radio systems and not much else. Cell phones failed. Cellular towers can not, in general, connect phone calls on their own, even if both phones are near the same tower. They communicate with a central switching computer to operate, and when that system doesn't respond, they're useless. But police and fire authorities still had internal communications via two-way radio.
Realizing that they'd need more two-way radio, authorities dispatched police to wake up the emergency coordinator of the regional ham radio club, and escort him to the community hospital with his equipment. Area hams dispatched ambulances and doctors, arranged for essential supplies, and relayed emergency communications out of the area to those with working telephones.
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't understand this anti-Ham attitude. These guys have proven themselves time and time again to be an important asset. Katrina certainly is the most recent example, but these guys all over the place put their own money and time into this, but out of some short-term notion of profit, we're basically going to sell them up the river.
And to the dimwits who say "When the powers out, it won't be able problem", how do you test and maintain equipment when BPL is spewing RF all over the place? It's like having a computer without a power jack, but hoping that when they put the power in, no matter how long it takes, the equipment will just magically work.
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Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:5, Informative)
As someone who served on the disaster committee of a regional American Red Cross chapter and worked along side two county EMA directors as well as the state EMA, I would politely disagree with you.
You will find a VHF and HF amateur radio station at most county EMA offices and the state EMA office. You will also find them at all three weather service offices that serves my state. Why? Because most amateur radio operators that volunteer to help us out are willing to attend a class on how we expected them to help us. They are courteous and professional, and most importantly they are already "out in the field" and FREE labor. The fact that they have the equipment capable of providing reliable long distance communications is a bonus.
I don't know how wealthy your local government is, but ours prefer to use the professional emergency responders to handle law enforcement, curfews, medical emergencies, and leave the "health and welfare" communications (which include status updates from shelters and staging areas) to the amateur radio operators. During a large scale disaster, the professional labor pool quickly becomes inadequate and we are always looking for trained volunteers in addition to the radio operators.
Amateur radio operators also help the national weather service by participating in SKYWARN. During the 90's they helped confirm weather warnings issued while nexrad (next generation radar) was being deploy. Today, they still serve a purpose by being the eyes and ears of the national weather service.
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Ever hear of RACES (Radio Amateur Communication Emergency Service) Just about every community and fire department in So. California has a RACES group. The professionals know that when the big one strikes, their multi million dollar EMCOMM systems will be useless. In fact, most emergency command centers have ham radio communications capabilities included.
I have a friend who's wife is alive because the Coast Guard monitors amateur radio.
The Red Cross, and the Salvation Army have amateur radio affiliates.
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Thankfully the vast majority of Amateur Operators do NOT fall under this category.
Thankfully, the vast majority of Whackers stay true to type and don't bother learning enough to get a license and wind up doing their stupid dance on the "Citizen Bands".
Also know, there is an active and functioning tradition within Ham radio to educate, train or otherwise "do away with"
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but EMP does not just wipe out 'digital' circuits. I believe it will just as effectively destroy any circuitry, including the kind in ham radios.
Vacuum tubes are semi-tolerant of EMPs. I can hear the gasp, vacuum tubes? Yes, they are still being sold and used [vacuumtubes.net]. Here's a "Make" video on making your own vacuum tubes [makezine.com].
Falcon
Re:It isn't just a hobby (Score:4, Insightful)
Sheesh (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a debate. Doing this turns those power lines into big antennas. You can't debate the laws of physics.
Re:Sheesh (Score:4, Funny)
Point out that electromagnetism is "only a theory", get Rush and Bill O'RLY to talk up ionospheric HF propagation being "a bunch of liberal mumbo-jumbo", and sprinkle the internet with scary chain emails about how radio was "cooked up by some European egghead". In a year or two, congress will be terrified to legislate against broadband over power lines because their constituents are gibbering incomprehensibly at them about illegal Mexican radio immigration, how we need to teach the controversy about "Intelligent Electrons" and the creeping socialist death panels that are coming to euthanize their satellite dish!
The scary part is (Score:2)
Had you posted this on a more proper forum (say freerepublic), you would have been moderated "+5 insightful" for telling the "truth". It is a scary world when instead of people laughing at what you wrote, they say "right on" or "preach it brother!". And trust me, they exist. I've meet people in real life who if you spoke this with the right tone would have taken you 100% serious.
Scary scary world. No wonder Obama keeps hiding the documents proving the "Moon Landing" was a hoax because 1) the "moon" is r
Re:Sheesh (Score:5, Funny)
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Isn't that more a result of poor wiring, and less about the technology itself ? Seems to me, if we stopped hiring grade-9 dropouts to build our houses, maybe the wiring wouldn't suck so bad and powerline networking wouldn't be such a big deal.
In my apartment, I have four separate circuits, but they all bleed into each other at the fusebox, so when the freezer's compressor kicks in, I get pops in my speakers, and the bedroom TV spazzes for a moment as the flyback settles back to resonance. If I installed p
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It's not a debate. Doing this turns those power lines into big antennas. You can't debate the laws of physics.
Note that the article specifically mentions that it's not about broadband-over-power-lines (BPL). The author is restricting himself to discussing home replacements for Ethernet, which are blocked at the meter and cannot leave the house. Yes, the wires inside the house become antennae, but it doesn't cause the widespread disruption that BPL would.
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It's easy to get confused on this topic (Score:5, Insightful)
The other is within-home networking like Homeplug. ARRL dealt with early interference issues and has not reported any recent ones as far as I'm aware. But the very earliest models allowed us to hear your phone call on shortwave! Fortunately, people who owned those were found and warned, for the most part.
Bruce
Re:It's easy to get confused on this topic (Score:5, Insightful)
There are any number of FCC staffers who are well educated in RF. I've met some of them. The problem comes when the commissioners don't let them do their job.
Does powerline networking nuke radio hams (Score:5, Funny)
HF is the only communications safety net (Score:5, Insightful)
The author's analogy belies the fatal flaw in his though process: HF communications may be older and slower than the internet, but the internet is highly unreliable and fails when communications are most critical. HF always works. HF is the ONLY completely reliable means of long-distance communication that humans have. To destroy mankind's sole means of completely reliable communication in favor of a system which fails when needed most is simply foolish. This isn't about amateur radio. It's merely incidental that most HF communications these days are by hams, and that hams handle disaster comms when the networks go down. These communications could be handled by any group of people, and the result would be the same: without a reliable HF infrastructure, humans screw themselves doubly when nature screws us.
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Also, HF is something individuals can do between each other, point to point, on their own resources and initiative. Internet, outside of a few specialty wifi kludges, pretty much makes you an appendage of $LOCAL_MONOPOLY_TELCO. This can be an issue if they go down, or start doing things you don't fancy...
Being a person who uses, appreciates but fundamentally doesn't trust the government - certainly not to choose how I ultimately wish to carry out my life, I find it useful to stash a few things that help me get in touch with people without the government or government-backed communications media. In my case this includes a few coils of wire, a few tools and an ARRL handbook.
And I keep a few good reference texts in hardbound, in case the Wikipedia volunteer editorial board decides all the articles should b
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My point is that no matter what happens to a country, the survivors should be able to fend for themselves in an emergency. That means grouping up, and that requires communications.
Grouping up is the very last thing you'd want to do in order to survive. People are not to be trusted, especially not in an end-time scenario.
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If we get to the point where we NEED HF communications, the interfering devices wouldn't be working and wouldn't interfere. Of course, in that scenario, nuclear radiation might be interfering with HF communications but that's a separate issue.
Re:HF is the only communications safety net (Score:4, Insightful)
Massive Earthquake hits Southern California. All communication, power, water infrastructure destroyed or damaged.
As you point out all the interference caused by the power lines would be gone, in that area.
What about the areas outside the zone that are the ones the people in the zone will be trying to talk to?
Every year a bunch of Ham radio people set up in a park in Berkeley, CA, and for three days they are off the grid running their equipment on solar panels, batteries, gas generator, exercise bikes with generators, whatever. The point is for them to show that they can maintain contact with the rest of the world without the infrastructure that will be knocked out in a disaster. And teach people about Ham radio to drum up new recruits.
After the tsunami in Indian ocean one of the only sources of news and communication was Ham operators in the area.
We need to keep those frequencies clear.
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People are morons.
They bitch about infrastructure yet they move to VoIP and rip out the copper land lines.
We push hybrid cars that cost more to produce (in terms of money and environmental impact) than old regular cars, and the difference will never be made up during the life of the car.
We want plugin electrics despite the fact that they'll put a huge strain on the already-fucked electrical grid, and will be ultimately be supplied by burning coal.
We have rebate programs to replace your fridge that's been wo
Re:HF is the only communications safety net (Score:4, Interesting)
We push shitty shitty light bulbs down your throat when there's not a damned thing wrong with the current ones.
I think my power bill disagrees with you on that point.
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VoIP is a big improvement. The call quality is as good or better than the old land lines 99% of the time. Yes, the internet isn't as reliable as the old land lines were...but it's still good enough. If an emergency happens, that what what a cell phone is for : VoIP isn't meant to be your only phone, it's a significantly cheaper supplement to a cell phone. Also, you can make long distance calls via VoIP far more cheaply than any other method.
Hybrid cars are still an experimental technology. They aren't
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Your statement doesn't seem completely incompatible with his analogy.
Steam powered trains work even if society collapses, but are inefficient. Maglev trains are very efficient, but but would not work if society collapses.
In that sense, it is a little like if we kept rail tracks traditional so that we maintained backwards compatibility with steam trains.
In the end, it comes down to deciding the expectation value of the improvement of efficiency versus the loss of a last ditch safety net.
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Re:HF Not Just for Hams (Score:5, Informative)
There are other services in the HF band between 1.8 MHz and 50 MHz than just Ham operators and shortwave radio stations.
The spectrum is also used for aviation, particularly when commercial aircraft are over the ocean and out of line-of-sight to a shore station. Most ships at sea use HF radio for communications from ship to ship and for ship to shore communications. The military still uses HF communications for a great many systems, including the broadcast of EAM (emergency action messages).
Someone will say "so what, they are way up in the air or in the middle of the ocean" but they fail to realize that the shore based stations are subject to interference while trying to receive signals from aircraft and ships.
There are still radio navigation systems that operate in the HF bands, weather bouys in the ocean sending back data by HF and many other overlooked systems of lesser renown.
Having spent a significant amount of my professional life hunting down interference sources to communications systems I can say it is NOT a good idea to put a thousand low powerline network extenders across a city. There WILL be harmonic interference, intermodulation and an overall decrease in performance. Look at how badly screwed up the 802.11 a/b/g/n, Bluetooth and ZigBee are? The 2.4 and 5.8 GHz devices at least have the decency of being line-of-sight and range is limited by buildings. As soon as you attach something to the wiring system of your home you create something that is impossible to manage (resolving interference issues).
Give this one to the Hams and to those of us who still own and use shortwave radios.
The issue is simple (Score:5, Insightful)
Power lines were never meant to carry RF energy. When they are, they radiate. Cable TV doesn't radiate. It doesn't radiate because it uses a proper transmission medium (Coax). If the power line folks want to distribute DATA, they should string the poles with fiber optic. Better yet, we the people should string it, and sell access to the content providers.. ala municipal fiber networks. They can work folks!
It is a real problem (Score:4, Insightful)
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not that i would advocate anything illegal.
It's also a hobby (Score:2)
I would make the arguement that homeplug intereference is a bad thing, not becuse of EMCOM, but because people should be able to enjoy a hobby without intereference from their neighbor.
Not just Ham Radio (Score:3, Insightful)
It is appalling to see the dishonest arguments used by the proponents of BPL.
Sure Hams would be affected, but what about the hundreds of other essential services which cram into the H.F. bands?
Everything from Military, to Ambulance, Fire, Police, Aircraft, Marine, etc. rely on H.F. for reliable remote communications.
Ham Radio is an easy target ("just a bunch of nerds, who needs them?"), but whenever the spin is limited to Ham Radio, you know you are listening to a bunch of lying scumbags.
As a professional Communications Engineer, I can tell you that we must kill BPL!
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Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Funny)
It's an elitist hobby for techno-geeks
Funny, I feel the same way about World of Warcraft.
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, there's no better alternatives to using powerline networking. It's not like you can buy CAT6 at Home Depot, or anything.
Unlike the buggy whip people, Ham operators have constantly come up with new stuff, like figuring out how to make shortwaves go across an ocean. Powerline networking, OTOH, is a cheap stopgap solution that's better done by laying dedicated cable or setting aside radio frequencies for the task.
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OR:
As a ham radio operator (17 years), an ARRL Emergency Coordinator (8 years) and a liason to State and County emergency management departments for 12 years, you will be glad we're here when the rest is down
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Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Insightful)
Wake up. BPL is a crappy technology. It guarantees improper radiation because the power lines aren't shielded at the physical layer. Kill BPL now and demand what we all want: Fiber Optic.
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Insightful)
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You are aware that this will radiate out on to the power line, right? Your AC power line is not a one way wire, and you will be pushing signal out. In fact, I'll wager this crap doesn't even have encryption like WiFi does, so if you're using it, a sufficiently skilled guy could easily intercept your data.
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Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Funny)
You dare to say this on
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Insightful)
My motto is: "Ham radio: No infrastructure required."
73 de w7com
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I am sorry to hear that in your city they were not as interested in learning about the technologies in so much as buying it.
I am 21, so I am much younger than you, I got into HAM radio because of a project (http://nearspace.0x58.com) I did at school, having a license helped communicate between the teams while on the ground looking for the device, and helped us keep track of the APRS as it was being sent from the balloon.
HAM radio has been really interesting, I have met really great people at various differe
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Truth. Not only that but there are people still coming into this. I'm working towards my amateur here in Canada, and I'll be glad to get it. For those of us who live in the middle of no where, this stuff is our only lifeline when everything else fails(see ice storms, blizzards, and other natural disasters like floods).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
By law, the max you have to pay for the test to get a license is about $10, but it's supposed to be limited to cost of materials for the VEs, so it should be far less than that under normal circumstances.
Beyond that, you can get on HF with a radio you designed yourself to fit in a sardine tin, and work the world using morse code. As long as it doesn't give off out-of-band emissions, you can build it out of things you find after gently applying a hammer to a cheap drugstore radio.
You can also get plans or p
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At any rate, I don't believe a word you're saying, because HAM operators value their licenses, and unless they're pretty dumb, they abide by the rules.
Re:Who cares about HAM radio (Score:4, Informative)
Like it or not, the "asshole with the fugly antenna" had it right.
If you look in the manual that came with your TV, you will see a little bit of small print talking about "FCC part 15 regulations". These essentially say that your TV cannot unintentionally radiate a signal that will disrupt any licensed radio service, and, more importantly, that your TV viewing IS NOT PROTECTED against interference by licensed radio services, as long as said stations are operating within their legal requirements (power output, spectral purity, etc.).
In short, you don't have a license to watch TV, but the ham DOES have a license to transmit up to 1500W of RF on various frequencies, whether it screws up your TV or not. If you don't like this, you are free to buy a better quality TV receiver, that incorporates all those "frivolous" features like proper shielding and filtering, that usually get "value engineered" out in order to sell the set for fewer bucks at WalMart.
A good summary of FCC Part 15 available here:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/part15.html [arrl.org]
BTW, you could be subject to FEDERAL charges for damaging a federally licensed radio transmitting station, , if your "asshole" neighbor wanted to press things. Generally, hams are more than willing to work with their neighbors to resolve interference issues (even if not legally required to), but when said complaints become abusive or threatening, we are fully within our rights to tell you to take your cheap Chinese TV set and stick it where the sun don't shine. And the FCC will back us up, every time.
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I doubt any EM leaked out of that house.
Except out the power lines that are good at radiating RF outside the house just like they are good at carrying RF inside the house. At least until they reach a transformer.
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Change the frequency of the powerline networking?
Or, it may be possible to install filters so that the HF signal does not get outside your house, because if it does - you have a few hundred meter long antenna (the wire between the house and the transformer of the neighborhood). People living in flats (as opposed to having their own house) would probably have more problems if a lt of their neighbors started to use powerline networking.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
For a wire to not be an efficient RF radiator, typically it has to be 1/4 wavelength or longer. For the freqencies we're talking about (up to 30MHz), 1/4 wavelength can be as short as 2.5 meters (since 28MHz is around 10 meters).
14 MHz is only 20 meters, so a piece of wire 5 meters long (or even a combination of wires that are segmented together through a panel) can become a radiator (aka transmitting antenna).
You can see where this is going. It's hard to get the frequency low enough where the typical wire
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The wires inside of the walls probably do not radiate as much as the ones strung out between poles, since (brick or concrete block) walls shield RF. A filter should be installed to prevent the RF signal from getting to the long wires outside.