Delete Data On Netbook If Stolen? 459
An anonymous reader writes "I have just moved overseas on a 2-year working holiday visa and so I picked up a netbook for the interim, an MSI Wind U100 Plus running WinXP. I love it to bits. But as I am traveling around I am somewhat worried about theft. Most of my important stuff is in Gmail and Google Docs; however, I don't always have Net access and find it useful to gear up the offline versions for both. Ideally I would like to securely delete all the offline data from the hard drive if it were stolen. Since it is backed up in the cloud, and the netbook is so cheap I don't really care about recovery, a solution that bricks it would be fine — and indeed would give me a warm glow knowing a prospective thief would have wasted their time. But it's not good if they can extract the HD and get at the data some other way. All thief-foiling suggestions are welcome, be they software, hardware, or other."
Whole Disk Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whole Disk Encryption (Score:4, Informative)
I know it doesn't help the OP, but on linux-based netbooks it's trivial to re-install linux with whole disk encryption if you want to upgrade to Ubuntu anyway. I've been running this way on my primary laptop for over a year and haven't really noticed any performance degradation.
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Dependent on the total size of the data you want to store local copies of...
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Buy a good flash drive and keep it on your key chain. Preferably an Ironkey ( www.ironkey.com ) or something similar that offers some serious hardware encryption along with other anti-theft features.
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Use something like XMarks for Firefox so you can access all of your bookmarks, and even stored passwords if desired, without storing any of it on the netbook. Now simply treat the netbook as a public access PC. If it gets lost or sto
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You often aren't able to run a live disc on any sort of public PC. Either there's no disc drive, you don't have access to the boot menu/bios, or you simply don't have physical access to the machine.
Either way, running from a live disc and a flash drive won't secure shit. For all you know there could be a hardware keylogger. For all you know there's some guy in the back room watching split video signals from all the machines in the coffee shop. If you're going to be paranoid, at least be paranoid.
Re:Whole Disk Encryption (Score:5, Funny)
The answer to your problem is whole disk encryption, not trying to delete the data.
Feh. Your so-called answer does not include the word 'thermite' or the phrase 'earth-shattering kaboom'. And you call yourself a geek?
Re:Whole Disk Encryption (Score:5, Funny)
Where's the ka-boom. There was supposed to be an earth shattering ka-boom.
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encryption is not the answer (Score:3, Interesting)
But there is a free solution which is more like thermite.
Encryption is wrong for netbooks because the Atom is a slow, single-core chip. It really can't afford the extra overhead.
Encryption also won't do what the submitter asks: bricking the device.
But ATA passwords will do this! Sometimes called "drivelock," these are firmware passwords you type when powering on a disk. If it doesn't get the right password, the disk will refuse to cooperate. Recovering the data from such a disk requires expensive equipment
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The Atom can only barely play higher-quality youtube videos. Any little thing will tip it over the edge. I agree that it is only a minor impact for most users. But Atoms are a different case.
You should actually try it. I have an OLPC XO-1 (with a Geode processor -- even slower than the Atom) and full-disk encryption makes no detectable difference in performance.
What you're missing is the fact that symmetric ciphers, which are actually what the bulk encryption is done with, are very fast. Even low-end processors are typically able to encrypt/decrypt *many* times faster than they can read or write data to disk/flash. And, actually, there shouldn't be any storage I/O involved in playing a you
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Re:Whole Disk Encryption (Score:5, Funny)
Install a Sony battery.
Ka-boom.
http://geeksaresexy.blogspot.com/2006/11/lithium-ion-laptop-battery-explosion.html
P.S: It was made by a Gnome, so it might explode before it gets stolen.
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not really, a serious alternative exists:
not store any data at all locally, which is generally faster and uses less battery power etc. (than whole disk encryption).
Since he doesn't care about losing the system, not having any data on it would guarantee that he'd never lose any real data. Whole disk encryption would just invite him to store "some" data on the netbook.
Slow News Day - WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Google: windows encrypted drive + "I'm feeling lucky".
Here's what I got:
http://www.truecrypt.org/ [truecrypt.org]
I'm OK with "Ask Slashdot" being used to gather the collective experience of the techies that like to hang out off-hours here at /. - but.. this?!?
Something that could be addressed by a moment or two spent at Google or even (god's sake) Bing is a WASTE OF HITS. But maybe that's the plan - get droves of angry techies to bitch about the lameness of the stories, delivering ad impressions?
Crazy like a fox?
I'm on to you, Cmdr Taco, if that is your real name!
Re:Slow News Day - WTF? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Would also like to mention FreeOTFE (http://www.freeotfe.org). Unlike Truecrypt it happens to be Linux/LUKS compatible.
Re:Whole Disk Encryption (Score:5, Funny)
the part where the original poster said "Running WinXP" may not have made it all the way in.
I despise answers that randomly suggest competing products without really answering the question. It's like "My lawnmower won't start" and "Well, if you had goats, then you could feed them a different feed to make them more motivated." Try to advertise less and answer the frakking question more, MMkay?
Re:Whole Disk Encryption (Score:4, Funny)
If your lawnmower doesn't work, one answer would be: try goats.
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fencing (repost) (Score:4, Insightful)
To the average thief, and to the average receiver of a stolen netbook, if the netbook boots an alternative OS, it might as well be bricked.
Re:fencing (repost) (Score:4, Funny)
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the part where the original poster said "Running Linux" may not have made it all the way in.
Fixed that... This is /. we can't acknowledge anything other than linux. Zombies say "mmmm brains".. /.ers say "mmmm Linux"
FYI the Irish have a law against Blasphemy [slashdot.org] so I will appraciate it if you never mention that product again or I'll be forced to sue you.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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Moot. The word is moot.
If you make more mistakes of that magnitude, you may be muffled and mutilated with a maddened moose.
Encryption (Score:5, Informative)
Encrypt the entire drive with TrueCrypt or something. Use a strong cipher and a very strong passphrase. The laptop is as good as bricked to anyone who gets it.
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
Whole-Disk AES via TrueCrypt is only BARELY above the "acceptable" threshold on a Core Solo. I cringe to think what it'd be like on an Atom. A better bet would be to use a container-hosted TrueCrypt volume, and set your My Documents folder into that volume.
Re:Encryption (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Informative)
fencing (Score:5, Insightful)
All the more reason to use a Linux or BSD based OS.
To the average thief or receiver of stolen goods, a netbook running an alternate OS is as good as bricked.
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They make netbooks with VIA processors, which have encryption functions built into the processor instruction sets.
I'm not sure if truecrypt would take advantage but if it did it would help immensely.
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Interesting)
On N270 Atoms, whole-disk AES encryption works perfectly fine, and the only time I notice a slow-down is when I'm running a benchmark program side-by-side with a model that has an unencrypted drive. For regular browsing and e-mail (which is what the person asking the question listed as a qualification), it's a non-issue.
As some others have posted, and what my local police have told me, the laptop will likely have been sold for cash in less than 24 hours. Unless you are being targeted specifically for something of significant value such as corporate IP, it's unlikely that anyone is going to spend the time to try to unencrypt your drive.
But other threats still loom...
If you plan on connecting to any network, you will expose your machine to any network-based threat, so you ought to harden your machine accordingly.
Make sure you still have a strong password for your account login. If your machine is in hibernate, the crypto authentication prompt will stop them, but if your machine was sleeping, it'll return to the OS prompt.
The one scenario where you're not protected at all is if the machine is powered on, logged in, and someone grabs it by force. I realize there are proximity-based USB dongles that will lock the screen when the remote adapter is beyond range, but this may be far too impractical to use. A USB security dongle sticking out the side is a quick recipe for a broken USB port...
Re:Encryption (Score:5, Informative)
My personal experience with a Inspiron 1520 is that whole disk encryption significantly reduces battery life, which is a real usability problem.
Most likely, when I get back to the states (I only encrypted for some overseas travel anyway), I will decrypt it and move back to an encrypted truecrypt container for the small number of documents that are really sensitive.
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I have a Pentium 3 Mobile 1.7GHz Thinkpad and Truecrypt makes no appreciable difference in performance. Even during benchmark tests the CPU is only about 50% loaded, so the bottleneck is the HDD itself. 50% sounds like a lot, but keep in mind we are talking artificial benchmarks here. Real world performance is probably in the order of 5-10% when loading an app or large file.
Truecrypt is by far the best option. Not only does it protect your data in case of theft or over-zealous customs staff, but you can wip
Re:Encryption (Score:4, Interesting)
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>Get a seagate momentus FDE and do pre-boot authentication.
>encryption is done in hardware, on the drive, viola.
Seagate momentus disks use string instruments for data encryption?
On a netbook? (Score:5, Funny)
Including the owner!
Sadly true (Score:2)
Full drive encryption can brick netbooks/laptops unintentionally. Bad sectors, which might under other circumstances corrupt a file in a recoverable way, can render a whole drive unrecoverable if it's encrypted. Overheating is a commonly cited cause.
I don't know if some drive-encryption methods/settings are more susceptible than others, but if anyone is seriously considering this route then it's worth reading up on this type of failure.
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Encrypt the entire drive with TrueCrypt or something. Use a strong cipher and a very strong passphrase. The laptop is as good as bricked to anyone who gets it.
Use a passphrase that's easy and quick to type. Easy to type doesn't mean it has to be a bad password. My guess is that nobody cares about your documents, unless you work for some government or big company, or unless you're a celebrity. So an 8 or 10 character long password is good enough, and nobody will even attempt to break it.
nobody cares? (Score:2)
A number of people have suggested that the data is not important.
But what about cached credit card numbers or passwords?
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Passwords can be protected by the use of a master-password (at least in Firefox) or don't save them locally.
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Encrypt the entire drive with TrueCrypt or something. Use a strong cipher and a very strong passphrase. The laptop is as good as bricked to anyone who gets it.
I'm really curious as to how it's "as good as bricked" to anyone who gets it? Seems to me, with this solution, a simple reformat/reinstall of the OS would make the computer 100% usable. Is this not the case? I'm not familiar with the netbook in question, so maybe it's impossible to reinstall the OS on it... but if it's like a normal computer, trashing the drive does not in any way, shape or form brick the computer.
Care to enlighten us as to how a scrambled hard drive bricks a computer?
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As in, requires the receiver to "fix" the machine to use it. (In this case, an OS re-install is the way it would be fixed, but the average computer user doesn't really know for software or hardware.
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I wish I could make it deliver an electric shock, explode the battery or maybe a dye capsule, emit a foul-smelling and nauseating gas, or make a 911 call and report a fire at its location. Something along those lines. I don't expect thieves to be caught, so I want to somehow cause them harm directly.
I once designed a car security system that would have stood a good chance of killing the driver. I heard a lot of arguments about why that was a bad idea, but I don't buy any of them to this day. If you try
a hack (Score:5, Funny)
set up a scheduled task to wipe the drive unless you cancel it. Then don't forget to cancel it.
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That's a TERRIBLE idea... Like, HOLY SHIT terrible.
Full disk encryption gets my vote as well - Truecrypt will do the job quite nicely, and relatively pain-free.
Re:a hack (Score:5, Funny)
That's a TERRIBLE idea... Like, HOLY SHIT terrible.
Then your threshold for terrible needs adjusting. I'm sure I can think of something worse than what the AC suggested :-P
For example: a small thermite charge, proximate to the hard drive platter. It's fused to go off if a particular peripheral isn't detected upon boot-up; you keep the peripheral "key" with you, perhaps attached to your regular key-chain. A thief tries to boot, and BOOM (okay, thermite doesn't "boom", but you get the idea) - no more HDD. Or netbook. Or whatever it happened to be on top of. Bonus points if the thief happens to have it on their lap at the time.
Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you propose a terrible idea. Compared to this, a full disk wipe sounds positively safe and reasonable.
(IMPORTANT: If anyone out there is stupid enough to take this suggestion seriously and implement this obvious deathtrap, I cannot be held accountable for any loss of property, organic damage or Darwin award nominations that result.)
Re:a hack (Score:4, Interesting)
The OP says he's moved "overseas" so presumably some day he'll be travelling back to which ever country he came from, and I would guess that includes flying.
Re:a hack (Score:5, Funny)
The OP says he's moved "overseas" so presumably some day he'll be travelling back to which ever country he came from
Not necessarily, he might have moved out of the U.K.
(No flames please, I'm British :)
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What happens when you forget about the hack that you put something highly combustible in your device and try and take said device through the airport TSA checkpoint? I suppose if the answer is that the theif takes said device through TSA checkpoint then it's funny, but what if the theif sells the device to some unsuspecting victim?
Setting up a netbook to be a bomb is not just a bad idea, but it's likely to be illegal in many ways.
A good idea might be to put a keylogger which uploads to a web site into the n
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That's a TERRIBLE idea... Like, HOLY SHIT terrible.
Why? The laptop is a backup for online data. He can afford to throw it away and reload it next time he goes on line.
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Back on topic. Yeah I suppose so, especially with windows. I can netboot netbsd pretty fast.
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Encryption (Score:2, Informative)
That is what encryption is for. Get truecrypt or other similar application and then the data won't be extractable by anyone without the password.
Identity Theft or Physical Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's physical theft I would think they would bin the HDD or sell it "as is" without even looking at what's on it. Bricking it doesn't do a lot, you'd probably just replace the HDD anyway.
Identity theft is more worrying. Why not encrypt the HDD with something like Fedora / Ubuntu offers - ie an encrypted /home or MyDocuments. That way the laptop won't log on for the thief.
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What if it was already logged in?
Ex: Someone grabs it at an internet cafe, while you're ordering something?
I know everyone else is thinking the same thing, but I'll say it anyway - encrypt the entire partition, with a tool like TrueCrypt.
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(I'm aware that my suggestion doesn't deal with an already-logged in scenario. If anyone has an answer to that one, please, do reply with it!)
I suppose you could always hope they shut down the computer and can't get back in, but that's a pretty bad plan IMHO. :P
Re:Identity Theft or Physical Theft (Score:4, Insightful)
If a thief grabs it, they would inevitably tuck it under their arm (walking around with an open netbook would slow them down and make them easier to spot). So set the netbook to shutdown when the lid is closed.
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(I'm aware that my suggestion doesn't deal with an already-logged in scenario. If anyone has an answer to that one, please, do reply with it!)
Sounds like you need some kind of RF token and a receiver attached to the netbook; if the token goes out of range, the machine logs you out and/or shuts down. If push came to shove, I imagine you could bodge something together with a Bluetooth receiver and a Bluetooth enabled phone like BluePromixity [sourceforge.net] does.
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Automatic session time-outs?
But that's not the problem. If someone has physical access to the machine encryption is at best a roadblock, not a solution. All important files should be recoverable from recent backups. The encrypted data should be set to automatically delete after 5 or so incorrect password attempts, so in the event of theft and the thief wants access to your data then t
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Encrypting just /home is a bit of a half-arsed attempt. What about any files that get copied to /tmp? Better is to use Fedora and create a fully encrypted machine (except a tiny /boot partition, which it won't let you encrypt and which needs root permissions to write to anyway).
Booby trap it? (Score:3, Funny)
There is probably room in the case for a few ounces of C4 explosive, and a detonator. You might have a hard time getting it through customs though..... and you had better never drop the thing so the detonator goes off!!
Lojack for Laptops (Score:4, Informative)
Website: http://www.absolute.com/products/lojack [absolute.com]
FAQ: http://www.absolute.com/resources/public/FAQ/L4L-FAQ-E.pdf [absolute.com]
Costs $59.95/year for the premium package which supports Remote Wipe. Embeds itself in the BIOS/EFI. Supports XP and OS X.
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I did read the summary. I passed on information on a remote wipe service, which is one of the many options for doing what the poster wanted.
What part of the summary did you have trouble understanding?
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Remote wipe does no good if the hard drive isn't in the machine.
Re:hardware/wifi "Lojack" for disk drives? (Score:2)
Use the intelligent disk controller's intelligence for something?
Sure, it would require some significant modifications to the drive, but it ought to be possible. And, I guess, triggered by lack of signal rather than by signal.
alpha particles (Score:2, Funny)
Truecrypt + fake account (Score:5, Insightful)
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You don't have kids, do you ?
You just gave a recipe for disaster :)
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... you don't have kids, do you?
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Image the disk, test, bitcopy. Obviously.
The bonus is that you now have a ready-made image for your next netbook when this one is stolen.
Encryption and BIOS settings (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course full-disk encryption, as lots of people have already suggested, but since you want the thief's time to be wasted, remember to password-protect the BIOS and disallow booting from USB drives or external units. Same goes for GRUB if you were on Linux. That way the thief will not be able to resell the netbook.
Yes, the thief could remove the BIOS battery, but he would have to tear the case open. If he knew how to open a laptop without breaking it, he has more skill than I would associate with a petty thief.
You might also consider Adeona [washington.edu].
Re:Encryption and BIOS settings (Score:5, Interesting)
"Yes, the thief could remove the BIOS battery, but he would have to tear the case open. If he knew how to open a laptop without breaking it, he has more skill than I would associate with a petty thief."
Did it ever occur to you that the thief might be part of a larger crime organization, which organization might have a few people with pretty advanced technical skills? Or, even if they aren't, it's entirely possible/probable that after the thief fences the stolen computer, it will end up in the hands of someone both unscrupulous, and technically saavy?
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Are you evil enough? (Score:5, Interesting)
First, get truecrypt, that takes care of your data.
Now then, If you have the spark of evil in you, here's the plan.
1. Set up multi-boot config.
2. Create a bootable partition that has enough OS on it to run the drive and network, name it something interesting like 'Confidential'.
3. Get the BIOS flash utils for your netbook, create a corrupt bios image that will still pass muster enough to install.
4. Set up a boot time process on the netbook that does a 'wget' from a web site that you control. If it gets a file, quietly flash the BIOS with what it downloads.
If you ever get ripped off, move the nasty BIOS image to the file location on your web site and bask in the glow of pure wickedness...
You can test this with a valid BIOS image, but don't look at me if something terrible happens, you're playing with fire here.
Try a File Shredder (Score:2)
Try Eraser [heidi.ie]
Works fine for removing data. Might not work if advanced forensic techniques are used.
Most thieves don't have access to those forensic tools. And I'm assuming you don't need this level of protection. I'm assuming you're not trying to obfuscate your illegal Tracy Lord mpegs.
OS on a flashdrive? (Score:2)
Added bonus - if you are around a desktop or a laptop better than a netbook, you can run your OS and all your documents through the drive.
Sorry, forgot to include a link. (Score:2)
Or, for Windows XP:
http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11-5928902.html [com.com]
Quick'n'easy (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Set up two accounts. Your actual one behind a password and an unprotected one.
2) In the unprotected one's startup, set it to delete all of your personal data.
You'll never log on via the unprotected account. Therefore you'll never accidentally delete everything. Even if you do manage to, as soon as you're next near a net connection it sounds like you can pull it back anyway.
Most casual thieves (sorry, your life isn't actually important enough that crack teams of ninja espionage winged monkeys will track you down and deliberately steal your data) will be perfectly happy to log on via the one account they can get on via and won't notice a suitably disguised process quietly cleaning everything sensitive off the machine.
It's not perfect, it's not infallible but, honestly, your data really isn't worth the hassle of defeating it for the average opportunistic thief.
You want to have more fun with them...
Set a scheduled task on that account to open Firefox 3.5 every 15 minutes and go to an address on your own server where it promptly gives its geolocation info [mozilla.com] before more obviously redirecting itself to some apparent malware site. They'll assume your machine's just infected with malware while you and the cops are given constant updates on their location.
Again, it's not perfect and most of /. could easily defeat it... But the average thief isn't a /. reader, they're just an opportunist who thinks they're getting something for free.
Mod parent way up! (Score:2)
This is probably the best solution for anyone not carrying trade secrets.
Re:Quick'n'easy (Score:4, Insightful)
And while at Custom's, have the border guard try to log in to your computer. Have him "access" the second account, delete all the data and then discover that you find yourself in some foreign court charged with destroying whatever it is they claim you destroy.
I do believe there have been cases in the US where people have been compelled by the courts to produce encryption keys for data on laptops they have tried to carry past customs. The poster does want to do this for protection while traveling "overseas". I wouldn't suggest entering some countries and claiming you just had a script delete everything on your harddrive - when their customs tried to log - but "you have nothing to hide - honest".
What do they want to steal? (Score:5, Informative)
Most casual thieves want the hardware to use, resell, or simply because it's pretty. They don't give a toss about your data unless they can get easy cash out of it.
Encrypt the disk to protect your data. It doesn't even have to be very strong encryption but obviously good encryption is better if your CPU can handle it. You can save CPU cycles by only encrypting data that really needs to be kept personal.
Personally I'd be tempted to have some kind of low trick on there just to fuck with their minds. Add a script like
echo "GPS location tracking started..."
sleep 13
echo "Device location found and reported."
read x
There is absolutely no security in this but casual thieves are normally not too smart so might shit their pants.
Re:What do they want to steal? (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't even have to be very strong encryption but obviously good encryption is better if your CPU can handle it.
AES is quite fast on 32-bit CPUs. There's no excuse for bad crypto.
Take to it with a hammer! (Score:5, Funny)
Right now! No thief will ever get your data if you destroy it right now!
Oh you wanted to use it in the meantime. Well that's different...
So instead (Score:2)
encrypt anything mobile for the love of god (Score:2)
Why do they want your E-mail? (Score:2, Informative)
Firstly: You're not that interesting - nobody wants to read your E-mail, and the 'important' stuff (like your PGP keys) are individually passphrase protected, aren't they.
Secondly: You're not that interesting - the thief either wants the device for themselves, or to fence it for $50 worth of crack (or food, depending on where you travel). If they want it for themselves - chances are they'll just wipe it with a clean Windows install (you even leave the registration key on that little sticker on the back, d
Multi boot (Score:2)
Set it up with multiple boot options, and the default one does something nasty.
If you don't select the right boot option when you switch it on ... Zap! One wiped disk.
If you can wipe the BIOS...even better.
Maybe I don't understand something... (Score:3, Insightful)
but if you care about confidentiality of your datas once your laptop is stolen, and at the same time you store most of your datas on servers owned and administered by someone who is not you (the Google company in this case), then maybe you should think twice about what you do.
on a 2-year working holiday visa (Score:2)
"I have just moved overseas on a 2-year working holiday visa"
gimme one of those!!!
paint a STOLEN FROM ... message on the front (Score:4, Interesting)
THIS COMPUTER WAS STOLEN FROM <your name/phone number>
In large, contrasting letters - for extra points write it in the language(s) of the countries to be visited. Not only will it draw unwanted attention to whoever tries to use it, but it will make the stolen item impossible to sell on errr, auction sites, where most of this stuff ends up.
Before it's stolen (Score:3, Insightful)
Simple. Cover the message with black duct tape. Nobody sees the message and nobody bothers you. But when the thief peels off the tape, they are DOOMED.
nt (Score:2)
Unless you can tell it to brick the firmware you won't get squat.
Besides, once it's been stolen all you can do is deny the thief any gain, or help him get caught. You've already lost the equipment.
My suggestion would be to invest in some physical security, such as a locked bag. If permissible, a loaded gun wouldn't hurt either.
Difficult to take seriously... (Score:2, Informative)
You're worried about security and privacy? Then why are you using Gmail and Google Docs for that oh-so-important data? If you're going to be paranoid, you might want to start there...
I mean, I use Gmail too, but as a student, I don't exactly have a lot to hide - a few forum passwords, slashdot credentials, a few measly bucks in the bank. If you were really AT ALL serious about privacy and security, you should be using services that aren't paid for by a company that makes money from knowing your private data
C4 (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, there is are a couple arguments for encrypting the whole drive. . .
1) Are you 100% certain that every program you use is allowing you to store data in the folder of your choosing (the TC 'drive') instead of shoving data either in program files (any app dev who puts data in Program Files needs to be taken out, have their geek card torn up, thrown on the ground, spit on, stomped on, then the dev gets beat up till they bleed, damn dumbasses, but unfortunately, it happens all the time, even with programs
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