Hackable In-Car GPS Unit? 208
gigne writes "I'm in the market for a new, in-car GPS/sat nav. I am preferably looking for one that has live, up-to-date traffic information and route planning that doesn't make you want to cry. I'm not quite dumb enough to drive off a cliff, but something that doesn't even try and lead me to watery doom is preferable. The only thing I absolutely must have is the ability to hack it. It would be preferable if it ran GNU/Linux, but given a convincing argument, I would be swayed to another OS. Without wanting the Moon on a stick, what is the best device that would offer a decent modding community and a good feature set?"
Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies comercializing GPS devices are in the business of making money. I am inclined to believe you would run into proprietary and legal stuff should you plan to hack or reverse-engineer the device. Maybe some provide an API?
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It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Funny)
It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.
Excellent. I shall now go around bludgeoning people with my keyboard.
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Funny)
I hope that is an IBM Model M keyboard, otherwise you will just end up breaking your keyboard.
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I don't doubt it is, but please check this site where they explain reverse engineering further: http://www.chillingeffects.org/reverse/faq.cgi [chillingeffects.org]
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Insightful)
It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.
Never without qualifications. For example:
Microwave radiation.
Basic electrical safety.
Eavesdropping on protected frequencies. {Cell phones][Radar]
RFI
There is surely the potential for civil liability:
Your device catches fire and incinerates your cousin's $56,000 daysailer.
You taser-shock your girl friend.
Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, what me and my girlfriend do in the privacy of our bedroom is no business of yours!
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Funny)
Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.
That's not faulty, it's working precisely as intended.
Hey Hans! (Score:2, Funny)
I didn't know Hans Reiser could still post on /.!!!
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, it is illegal to eavesdrop on protected frequencies. But it is not illegal to modify a radio set to do so.
You can do whatever you want with an electronic device you own. But if you do something illegal with said modified device, you'll get in trouble for doing the illegal thing. Not for modifying the device.
As it should be.
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In this state its illegal just to have devices that *can* be modified to do certain illegal acts (like changing MAC addresses...)
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Can't change MAC addresses? "Clone MAC address" is a pretty common feature in the stock firmware of a number of common consumer-grade home routers. Are there special editions available in your locality?
What barbaric state is this? (I only want to know so that if I ever find myself driving around in those parts, I know to get gas before I get into that state, to drive only on local, non-Federally funded roads, and to avoid stopping for everything but urination. Vote with your bladder, I say.)
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Utah.
Its not as barbaric as it sounds. The law is full of traps like this nobody has ever heard of, there's around 20000 federal laws, lots of them badly worded enough that things like the mac address problem are present.
In theory shit like this gets ignored (Unless the prosecutor gets a bug up his ass and makes you the next Lori Drew), some of them do get enforced though, and its impossible to avoid breaking them all, even if you knew all 20000* of them.
The whole 'I have nothing to hide' thing? Totally f
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(f) Scanning receivers shall have a label permanently affixed to the product, and this label shall be readily visible to the purchaser at the time of purchase. The label shall read as follows:
WARNING: MODIFICATION OF THIS DEVICE TO RECEIVE CELLULAR RADIOTELEPHONE SERVICE SIGNALS IS PROHIBITED UNDER FCC RULES AND FEDERAL LAW.
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Oh? I didn't know you could do that.
Thanks,
B. Streisand
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This isn't saying much more than "only illegal stuff is illegal". It would be illegal, for example, to create a mercury tilt switch in a country were such devices are not allowed to be held by private citizens, even if you never used it.
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Yeah don't taser her bro. You don't want your girlfriend to end up as a melted pile of plastic...
Also, your nav system sounds perfectly functional to me, some might consider paying extra for that feature.
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It is perfectly legal to do whatever you fucking want with an electronic device you own, at least in most countries.
Never without qualifications. For example:
Microwave radiation.
Basic electrical safety.
Eavesdropping on protected frequencies. {Cell phones][Radar]
RFI
There is surely the potential for civil liability:
Your device catches fire and incinerates your cousin's $56,000 daysailer.
You taser-shock your girl friend.
Your faulty navigational display sends your mother-in-law off a cliff.
Ahh gosh darn it, my full proof plan has been foiled!
And the whole tasering thing just sounds kinky.
Re:Proprietary Issues (Score:5, Funny)
You're the guy who wants to go bludgeoning people with his keyboard, aren't you?
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What he proposes would be quite legal in the USA even if part of the firmware is encrypted. Breaking DMCA-protected encryption for interoperability is explicitly allowed.
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Unless that would involve breaking or circumventing any encryption, for any reason (at least in the USA)...stupid DMCA.
More specifically, you cannot traffic in tools that make it possible for others to do that. It's also not true that it is disallowed for any reason ... there are exceptions and that list gets updated from time to time. It's still bullshit, but it's not absolute.
g1 (Score:5, Interesting)
Ask Microsoft (Score:3, Funny)
in-car computer (Score:5, Informative)
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Did you just advise him to drive one-handed while watching porn while also driving down the interstate? You must have the strangest carpool ride ever.....
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You should never underestimate what a bored driver can do while driving.
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Agreed. And If you go this route, you'll be interested in this list [berlios.de], since it tells you which GPS units are likely to work well the gpsd on Linux or *BSD.
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Mio GPS (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, it's called Windows Mobile (Score:5, Interesting)
When I drove from California to NC, I wrote a custom app that read the GPS lat/long coordinates, searched a database of 5000 fast food places, gas stations, and hotels within 1 mile of I-40, so I could find where I wanted to go even if it was 70 miles up the road, and hit a great big button to search for it so I wouldn't wreck my car, and then enter the coordinates in the navsat program to start driving me there.
Does that count as hacking it?
I did it on my PocketPC. Does that mean Windows Mobile still sucks and is useless for hackers?
Re:Uh, it's called Windows Mobile (Score:5, Funny)
I believe that's called making your windows GPS function like a proper GPS ;)
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There are plenty turn-to-turn navigation apps for windows mobile which already have POI databases.
So yes, I second that. HTC Athena is a pretty decent device with a huge screen, internal GPS and a full keyboard. Good both for hacking and for navigation and is pretty cheap at the used devices market (got one for less than 200 euros).
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When I drove from California to NC, I wrote a custom app that...
You should be careful with that. The authorities frown on people who program while driving for some reason.
read the GPS lat/long coordinates, searched a database of 5000 fast food places, gas stations, and hotels within 1 mile of I-40, so I could find where I wanted to go even if it was 70 miles up the road, and hit a great big button to search for it so I wouldn't wreck my car, and then enter the coordinates in the navsat program to start driving me there.
Does that count as hacking it?
Not really, you were just using interfaces for their intended purposes here. Besides, while I am sure some people might be greatly in awe of your leet skills, this is actually a basic function of any normal GPS unit...
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I did it on my PocketPC. Does that mean Windows Mobile still sucks and is useless for hackers?
What? Windows mobile sucks, yet is not useless to hackers, and has not been since about WM5, where they introduced GPS sharing.
As you sort of suggest though, I think the best platform for what he wants to do is a PocketPC device with Garmin XL. Garmin XL is only $99 on MicroSD card with the USA maps. You can get a reburb PocketPC with GPS for about $200 if you look around.
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I would love to be able to hack this hardware to install Linux and some decent GPS software but haven't found anything.
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My TomTom will do this out-of-the-box, it's called "Find POI Along Route".
Uh, it's called Android (Score:2)
And they already wrote it, it's called Places.
navigon (Score:4, Informative)
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I have a Navigon 2100, which runs WinCE but it is quite hackable. The whole OS and related data is stored on an SD card; you can simply plug it into an SD reader, replace the files, maps, everything.
Interesting... so if you can replace the maps, any idea what program would convert OpenStreetMap [osm.org] data to the appropriate format for the Navigon? I have one of these useless doorstops (thanks to the absolute crap map data that it ships with) and i'm trying to rehabilitate it, since Navigon's support told me to go fuck myself (in those words).
Obligatory XKCD Reference (Score:4, Informative)
Get a TomTom. (Score:3, Informative)
It runs Linux, uses mplayer for media output, and is very hackable.
http://www.webazar.org/tomtom/index.php [webazar.org]
Tripmaster is the #1 3rd party app that you can install. There is lots of other stuff you can do to it too.
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I have the 720, and it is great.
P.S. Hey Slashdot, can we get an edit button!
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I did proofread. I didn't think till later to add the model information.
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Perhaps an "append" button then?
You're a couple of generations too late (Score:3, Informative)
Earlier TomToms had a developers kit. With the latest versions of the OS that offer many new features, like text to speech and use of faster aquiring GPS chips, they've removed the ability to do any kind of hacking. A real pity. I came into the game just a little too late. So I get the nice features, but not the nice hacks.
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> ...they've removed the ability to do any kind of hacking.
No they haven't. They've just stopped providing a convenient kit.
Re:You're a couple of generations too late (Score:4, Informative)
Without the developer API you can still access the functions that were there, you just need to roll your own code. The site http://www.opentom.org/Main_Page [opentom.org] is a good reference for source code and documentation.
I've got a TomTom One V3 that doesn't have Bluetooth and got console access by running a scope over the external connector to determine the functions and attached a TTL to serial converter, I've posted details of the connector pinouts for anyone interested http://blog.peter-johnson.com.au/?p=49 [peter-johnson.com.au]
OpenMoko (Score:3, Interesting)
Moon on a stick (Score:4, Funny)
Disclaimer: No I haven't.
not exactly "hackable", but... (Score:5, Informative)
the new garmin units plug in like a usb thumb drive and you have direct access to their .GPX data files. The files are in flat XML, heavily documented, and very flexible. (apparently garmin has gone away from NMEA/serial, good riddance)
They come with two pieces of software, one that runs locally on your computer and the other is a browser plugin that I assume gives java control over the same things. I was very impressed with the software, but it does have its limits. (such as building routes) But since the files are xml you can use any off the shelf standard .GPX editing program (there are several, and I recently wrote my own too) to edit things how you need to. Some are free, most are pay. But the software for the garmin is free with it.
You can't ssh into the thing, but as far as file/format goes, this is about as "open" as it gets. FYI I have an Edge 605, use it on my bike. It's got a really small screen unfortunately but those are the breaks for small and long battery life.
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Garmin units also support maps created by "mkgmap":
http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/index.html [mkgmap.org.uk]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap [openstreetmap.org]
This takes openstreetmap data (mentioned elsewhere - actually any data in OSM format would do) and creates a map in a style that you choose.
Lots of potential (Score:4, Interesting)
A good system would boot up in less than two seconds, start playing music where it left off, and instantly switch on a rear-view camera as soon as the car switches to reverse. Most existing systems have only a few of the aforementioned features, they tend to run fairly slow, and they have startup times that leave you wonting for music.
I think a feature-complete system would require a fast processor, a large display (probably requiring custom dashboard work), and a lot of wiring.
My own research turned up Navit [navit-project.org] which looks pretty good for the navigation piece.
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Look here. http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/ [mp3car.com]
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Your research wasn't very good if you didn't turn up the hundred companies building car computers that do precisely that or the tens of thousands or more people who use them.
Omnitech GPS sold at Staples or Nextar (Score:3, Informative)
The most hackable GPS I have seen and owned is the Omnitech 4.3 inch GPS unit sold at Staples. On a good sale day you could get the GPS unit for under $80, and some have even found them as cheap as 50-60. They run Windows CE5, and all of the files are stored on the SD card so it's incredibly easy to modify. There are already SD card images on the net that include multiple GPS programs like iGo8, TomTom, Nav N Go, Destinator, etc. and also come with a lot of games, programs, utilities, Office for PocketPC, etc. The Omnitech GPS can be had on eBay for as little as 70-80 dollars new if you can't find it in stores. If you cannot find an Omnitech unit, the next best thing would be one of the lower tiered Nextar units sold in Kohl's and Best Buy. I also own the Nextar 43NT (this is the one I use on a daily basis) and my GPS unit normally runs iGo8 as the GPS naviation program, and I also play games on it when I have down time, and have even been known to watch an XviD TV episode on the highway on long trips.
The downside to almost all GPS units though is that they don't accept SDHC cards. Theoretically 2GB is the maximum for a non-SDHC card to hold, but Transcend does market a 4GB non-SDHC card on Newegg for around $14 bucks. They all have about the same processor speeds and RAM though....the more you pay for the unit, the more you're paying for the software that comes on the device. Do yourself a favor and stick with the cheapie GPS and hack the unit to your satisfaction
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Most newer ones do support SDHC cards.
I know the DealExtreme ones do.
While the TomTom units run Linux, all of the "useful" functions are in the highly proprietary NavCore application. Despite being Linux-based, they're not really "hackable". There are some hacks, but they still depend on cooperation with NavCore.
The Windows CE devices tend to be quite hackable, such as the 4.3" and 5" WinCE + SiRF Atlas-III devices at dealextreme.com. I have one such unit on order and am looking forward to receiving it.
I
Freerunner (Score:5, Informative)
Get a Freerunner. It's an open phone with: GPS, internet via gprs, accelerometers, full bluetooth, wifi, 640x480 touchscreen. It runs any of several flavors of Linux (including Debian or Android, but my personal choice is SHR) and there are already Free gps programs that use OpenStreetMap (TangoGPS or Navit).
It's about $250, IIRC, but of course you can carry it around and use it to browse the web and receive calls, as well as using it in-vehicle for navigation.
It doesn't get any hackabler.
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Car charger is probably $5. Fixed that. (Score:2)
Hey, almost any car GPS is going to be plugged in; I assume that if the Freerunner is an open phone, it probably uses some fairly standard power plug.
Of course, if you meant that the battery life using a car battery is about 1 hour, that's a more serious problem... :-)
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I actually have a Neo 1973 - no need for the capacitor, nor is there a need for it in the newest Freerunners. I do agree that he should read up on it and hang out in #openmoko on irc.freenode.net to see what to expect. Early on, software was very buggy. Now, afaik, the only persistent problem is short battery life (about a day with normal usage).
"it hardly works" is inaccurate. There are issues he should understand *is* accurate.
A Nokia N810 with Maemo Mapper . . . ? (Score:4, Informative)
. . . it fit's your GNU/Linux/Hackable requirements . . . I dunno about the "live, up-to-date traffic information and route planning " stuff. But worth taking a look at.
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Wait, you got a GPS signal with a Nokia N810? Could you link to the details of the proper animal sacrifice ritual?
Sure, :-)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9415~r.60561251 [dealextreme.com]
(external GPS unit - OK, I have an n800, but I'm sureit works with the n810
Maemo Mapper is great, but its just a map program, not a navigator. It can download maps as images from Google maps, Virtual Earth, Yahoo, Openstreet, ...
It's fantastic when you don't have an internet connection. And it's open-source.
You need do download routes from elsewhere.
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Wait, you got a GPS signal with a Nokia N810? Could you link to the details of the proper animal sacrifice ritual?
http://betalabs.nokia.com/betas/view/gps-beta-nokia-n810 [nokia.com]
"Assisted GPS (A-GPS) provides assistance data for GPS calculations within the device. This application enables A-GPS on your N810 Internet Tablet device and provides improved performance and GPS fix times."
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"The application requires active Internet Connection to obtain fresh assistance data."
Not proper GPS at all. Watch you don't get assraped on data charges, especially if you're roaming.
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It's a proper GPS. The A-GPS application in this case is not the "classic" tower-based A-GPS, but is what is often refered to as "QuickFix" or "HotFix" or "InstantFix" depending on manufacturer.
The idea is that even with a good signal, satellite ephemerides take a minimum of 30 seconds to download from a GPS satellite. Even with good pseudorange data, without ephemerides a satellite is unusable for a navigation fix.
Most of the current "A-GPS" approaches involve preloading approximately a weeks' worth of e
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blue-sky ideas ... (Score:4, Interesting)
I really would like an R2 unit / the earthly equivalent.
First, I have a penchant for getting lost. As in, it's happened in my own neighborhood -- GPS device, while in some ways it's a crutch, also helps me *learn* streets by taking me the (or a) correct way a few times. As the saying goes, sometimes crutches are useful.
Second, I like to drive long distances / cross-country (for instance: I plan to go east in not many weeks from now on this route -- and back to Seattle via a slightly less direct path -- ), and would like something that can fake AI pretty well as a travel aid. ("Infotainment!")
Right now I have a decent-enough (discontinued, middle-end) Garmin, which took me several GPS-buying attempts to settle on, and it does a lot of things well (interface is OK, and it plays MP3s). But a guy can dream ...
I know this is not yet a reasonable demand for products in my price range, but I'd like to be able to use moderately complex spoken demands / requests / ideas, Star Trek (or Star Wars, or Hitchhiker's Guide) fashion, some of which would require either a really big data store or (at least intermittently) an internet connection:
"Plot me a course to the nearest used bookstore, artoo."
"How much longer if I take a route with no tolls?"
"Does that Taco Bell have a 24 hour drive through?"
"What happened at this battlefield? Give me the short version."
"Play that interview from EconTalk.org about the difference between law and legislation, and then some up-tempo Bach."
"What are reviews like on this cheap motel?"
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Timothy, oh most respect-worthy of Slashdot editors:
Here's a shot in the dark: Didn't you just describe GM's Onstar service?
And, if not -- didn't you just describe a good secretary?
Perhaps the thing you want isn't so far-fetched afterall.
What about an Android phone? (Score:5, Interesting)
Pioneer AVIC (Score:4, Informative)
I just got a Pioneer AVIC-F700BT (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/Navigation/In-Dash/AVIC-F700BT). It doesn't quite do everything you asked, but there are other models that add traffic updates, etc.
It runs Windows CE (bear with me here..), and has ways to boot into it. There are people that have hacked the firmware, and added various features to it - check out avic411.com. I haven't tried this myself, but it doesn't look overly difficult. I get the impression that community is not really full of "programmers" per-se, more just enthusiasts, so it's likely that someone who actually knows how to program would get quite far. (Note, I am a programmer, I just haven't had time to mess with my car stereo which works satisfactorily).
Pros: relatively cheap (note: the MSRP is $900-something, but it can be found for $500), has pretty decent maps, decent directions, plays MP3s from USB/CD/SD (and DVD, in some models), ipod interface, has XM/Sirius capability via add-ons, bluetooth with voice recognition (which works extremely well)
Cons: slow-ish bootup time (~7 seconds to playing music, another 7-10 before UI is fully available), music-related voice control features only work with ipod (eg, "play songs by ____" doesn't work on cd.. but you can say "next track" or "change source to FM" - which frankly, is kinda useless), playback from SD/USB won't resume right where it left off, it always starts the song over, fast-forward/rewind is frustratingly slow (both of these are probably fixable via firmware, or even hacking.. unfortunately, they contribute to mean I can't really listen to podcasts, which is one thing I was hoping for with the ability to use SD cards). Ships with a stupid "feature" where you can't change Nav destination/settings while driving (luckily, this is easily bypass-able by connecting an extra wire while installing).
I'm quite happy with it, honestly, and I'd definitely recommend the unit. Like I said, I haven't really gotten in to hack it yet (I likely will), but then again, I haven't really needed to.
I think you've got to make a decision. (Score:3, Insightful)
How much is your time worth?
Yes, you can screw around hacking GPS units. The question is, why do that instead of buying an ultramobile PC with GPS and navigation software?
Do you save money? No. Not if your time is worth anything. Also, if you're going to depend on this, say to equip your business or something, you have no guarantee you can do the same hacks when you replace the devices.
Do you learn anything? Well, sure, especially if you're the one who puts the time in to figure out how to do the hack. But less than you'd learn if you spent the same time just building software on a platform where the manufacturers are scheming to make your life miserable.
Are you striking a blow for freedom? Nope. You're sending your money to a manufacturer who's trying to restrict people's freedom. They don't really care if you manage to hack the thing, only that the process makes it worthless to most users. So maybe you should support folks who are marketing and supporting platforms, and save yourself a bundle of time too.
Of course, if the dedicated GPS units are better for their purpose than putting navigation software on an open PC, you can buy both; a GPS unit for navigation, and a UMPC with GPS for hacking. If your time is worth anything, you're still ahead.
I speak from experience, as an inveterate opener of cases and tweaker of things that are not supposed to be tweaked. It's only worth buying something to hack if the act of getting this thing to do something the manufacturer doesn't want it do has some kind of twisted appeal to you. One possible exception is if there is something unique about the hardware, which is certainly not the case for most GPS units. In fact they probably lack things you'll want, like certain interfaces. If there were a device that was amazingly cheap and known to be super hacker friendly, I might be tempted, but probably wouldn't bother. Where the manufacturer is trying tie your hands, why give them money for the privilege of spending your time escaping?
If you've bought one without the intention to hack it, and then you get the itch, sure go for it. That's a different story. But I think you'd be nuts to buy one for hacking if that's a high priority for you.
I think you've lost the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, you can screw around hacking GPS units. The question is, why do that instead of buying an ultramobile PC with GPS and navigation software?
Talk about missing the point...
You know, I think your attitude is the problem with consumer electronics today. They give you GPS with maps and you think "hey! That's cool! Now I can get navigation!" Some time later they come out with turn by turn spoken directions, and you're thrilled with that too. And then you come here on slashdot and argue against the open products, because they might be hard for you to use, or people might put them to uses the manufacturer had not intended.
Look: people are clever. Give them neat gear with open interfaces and they'll put it to creative uses the manufacturers had never considered - and publish the source code for anyone to use. If the features are interesting, useful and most importantly, popular, they'll wind up in the next generation of the manufacturer's products and you will benefit. It's like having a half billion geeks working for free.
Fortunately for you and for the rest of us, most manufacturers have figured out that they don't have the corner on creativity and so they make open, or "hackable" interfaces that allow us to bend these devices to unintended uses that they can then adopt in your next generation product.
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No, I'm arguing for open products over struggling to make closed products act like they're open. I'm for spending my money with vendors who treat me right.
Pioneer AVICs... (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a healthy hacking community for Pioneer AVIC in-dash units (http://www.avic411.com/). The current generation (F-series) is basically a Mio Windows CE 5.0 Navi that runs iGo 8.0 and interfaces to an AV board for sound out. It uses a Parrot Bluetooth for the handsfree but it's not a full BT stack so no A2DP. The interface Pioneer had an external software house design has been rather bemoaned for some frustrating "quirks", so there's a lot of motivation to hack the units at the moment. There is a way to launch external apps from the iGo script interface now and there's even an effort to write a new interface from scratch that launches from the SD slot (sort of like MioPocket for some of the PNAs). There may also be a way to use SDIO 802.11b/g wireless cards with the units that was borrowed from gpspassion.com.
Pioneer will be releasing a new series of in-dash units soon (X series) and a 3.0 firmware release for the F-series that apparently removes the ability to use the backdoor method many of us use to hack the unit, so if you do decide to get one make sure it's only got the 2.0 firmware on it.
An easier solution (Score:2)
Hell, a high-end GPS unit with half the screen size will set you back the same. But with this setup, you can take it out of the car when you get to where you are going and have a handy little netbook.
Mac Mini (Score:2, Informative)
Don't ask Slashdot, ask OpenStreetMap (Score:2, Informative)
OpenStreetMap (Score:2, Interesting)
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The US Government Tiger road maps [census.gov] are free (and the basis for much of NavTeq's data I believe in the US).
Quo Vadis [marcosoft.com] for the original Palms used those maps for navigation when you plugged a GPSr into your Palm.
That was my first in car nav system back in 2002! And it was nice having the separate screens, the GPSr showing speed, average speed, odometer with the map on the Palm separate.
Although hardly the most bleeding edge tech, obviously there's tons of development for Palms. (Absurdly inexpensive too, just
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How is that doing more with the data?
POIs are not in the TIGER dataset.
Also, OSM has done NOTHING with that dataset. They did a straight import that appears to have tried to cleanup/simplify maps and in the process broke them.
For example:
Lake Street in Owego, NY, USA is a one-way street. TeleAtlas and NavTeq know this, OSM does not (as the source data set does not contain turn restrictions data)
The OSM importer seems to have taken NY State Route 17 and turned it into single lane of a divided highway. NY
how about IPhone (Score:2, Interesting)
Nokia N800, N810 (Score:2, Insightful)
It is the maps (Score:2)
All the stories about watery doom are almost nothing to do with the GPS and entirely due to the maps. The GPS can only give as good instructions as the underlying map data. Map data on highways is usually fine as they don't change much, many people use them and the information is easy to incorporate. Smaller roads change more often, there are lots more of them, and the company making the maps is less likely to keep completely up to date with them. Nowhere do I see how you intend to deal with maps.
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Yes it can be good, just as the commercial maps can be. But all it takes is one area you happen to be driving through with less than correct mapping information for you to be guided in an unsuitable way. Those are what all the newspaper stories are derived from.
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TomTom already let you fix some errors. And of course the way you find out about errors is at the worst time and if routing in the worst way possible, such as if the unit tries to send you the wrong way up a round, a turn that doesn't exist, a road that is different etc.
I certainly believe that crowdsourced maps will be better just as Wikipedia is better than the paper encyclopedias. However it is going to take a while.
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OSM appears to have botched the TIGER import so badly (merging lanes of a divided highway into one, incorrectly marking an adjacent road as being a lane in that divided highway) that fixing the OSM data would be incredibly difficult.
Get an iPhone 3G (Score:2)
Or the new 3GS one. It has a GPS receiver, and there are a variety of applications which can utilize that to offer mapping and directions. Plus the backend is OSX - once you jailbreak it, you can ssh in and do all sorts of hacking.
freerunner? (Score:2)
I've very happily used an Openmoko Freerunner last december during about one month, which comes with what I believe i the only open-source GPS hardware (in addition to being linux-based).
I went into Openstreetmap which of course can be both downloaded for offline use and upgraded since you can record paths, and definitely was a happy camper, until a crease appeared in the ubernice touchscreen, soon resulting in 50% of the touch capacity being down (ie the phone is unusable).
I intended to prepare some startu
PNA mods (Score:2)
I have an IPAQ 312, which has a US equivalent,
the 310. This is easily hackable but is still windows CE. You finish up with a Win95 type desktop look.
I have got it to run TomTom6 and the open source glider navigation program XCSoar,
which is very good indeed.
As another poster mentioned TomTom units run linux.
There is a lot of good info on the gpspassion forum regarding hacking lots of differnet nav/gps devices.
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Maybe a Nokia N810 or N800 (with an external Bluetooth GPS).
I grabbed a Kogan GPS Watch for AU$129 and paired it with my Nokia N800, which works fine. You can use the default Wayfinder Navigator application for a fee, or try any of the free GPS/Nav packages available. Maemo Mapper is good if you don't want route planning, while Navit looks like a promising contender for an open-source car navigation system with routing engine.
The underlying OS is Maemo, a Debian port optim
TomTom (Score:3, Interesting)
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Well, it seems to me N810 has the development side much more official and open: for one, it isn't called hacking ;-). Also I doubt the mapping software itself on the TomTom unit is GPL.
But on the other hand, the built-in GPS of N810 is not very sensitive. You also need to pay extra for the navigation features (obviously no source available for that component). The navigation software doesn't seem as nice as the older TomTom software I've tried on a S80 phone. I haven't tried Navit (just read about it on thi
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It appears you don't have a clear idea of what is being discussed here. How is a PDA-class device with navigation going to cause a car crash? And what would be lost if someone indeed managed to change software on my device without permission, I can always just reflash the firmware and I'm set again?
Having hackable devices means that when you find something that doesn't work or doesn't work the way you like, instead of bitching and whining to the vendor, you are actually in the position to do something about
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There's a difference between hacking a device you own and you use, and a system that's used by others.
It's not just IT people. People all times have fiddled with devices they've had, and I believe this is in part how many inventions have been made. It just is that some people do it with computing devices and other people do it with, say, cars. Software-based devices are much more malleable than devices built out of screws and bolts; just changing a few lines can go a long way making the device do what you l
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Why not also your dishwasher? or the whole fucking car for that matter? Is there something special about something that contains technology and electronics that means hat it must be hackable and at the mercy and preserve of idiots like you? I suppose you'll decline all responsibility and run for cover when your amateur hacking causes a car crash? and would be the first to start bleating when someone else hacked your set, no? Get a life and apply your talents (if you really have any) to something useful, for pity's sake
The GPS doesn't drive the car, the driver does. Unless you're guilty of driving while Californian, using a GPS isn't going to cause an accident. The state of satnav today is crap, and if someone is motivated to fix the problem, why shit on him for it? Perhaps the original author comes up with a marketable product for people who aren't interested in building their own GPS to solve a problem commercial solutions consider an edge case now. Consider taking your own advice: Bitching on Slashdot about someon
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Why not also your dishwasher? or the whole fucking car for that matter?
That's why I built my own car, from scratch.
And you should see my dishwasher. That wasn't from scratch, but boy it'll clean dishes.