Microsoft Boasts 96% Netbook Penetration 774
An anonymous reader writes "Citing figures from market research firm NPD, Microsoft says Windows' share of the US netbook market has ballooned from less than 10% in the first half of 2008 to 96% as of February. 'The growth of Windows on netbook PCs over the last year has been phenomenal,' wrote Brandon LeBlanc, Microsoft's in-house Windows blogger, in a post Friday. Information Week author Paul McDougall notes Microsoft's 8% decline in Windows sales is due to netbooks sporting Linux. How does Redmond make an 80% gain in netbook market share without the sales numbers reflecting that gain?"
Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure Ballmer would be able to put a chair 100% through a netbook.
At least, as long as he hasn't gotten himself winded by running around like a lunatic [youtube.com].
On the other hand....
How does Redmond make an 80% gain in netbook market share without the sales numbers reflecting that gain?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're using pirated Windows statistics to up their market share. So they haven't actually sold anything, but Windows is on the system, therefore it belongs to them.
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Funny)
Very easy with a tiny bit of perl (microsoft use perl, right?)
$spc="<a href=\"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/technologynews/5105!!!"
$spc=~s/[^0-9]//go;
print "Sales increase: $spc%\n:wq";
Puts netbook sales increase at 5101%, and as overall netbook sales have increased by 6375% (a well known figure), that places MS's new market share at 80%. QED.
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Funny)
I can't believe I missed a semicolon... I'll create a git tree for it, then if anyone wants to contribute...?
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Funny)
I'll create a git tree for it, then if anyone wants to contribute...?
Sure, first thing I'll do is a GPLv3 fork. Just in case, you know... patents...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Insightful)
I went off-track too, but a little differently.
The first thing I thought was "In related news, Malware Writers Boast 96% Netbook Penetration".
yeah, and my inbox says... (Score:3, Insightful)
... "penetrate better with 150% better penis" or some such nonsense. It's got as much validity as what MS is spewing here. You expect us to believe you, when even your internal numbers don't match up? If they do "match up", then the only explanation is that MS is, essentially, giving away their OS for free for the netbooks, or charging a paltry fee.
I almost fell bad for the Executive level staff at Microsoft (and do feel sorry for the rank-and-file employees), because the $200 and even $100 netbooks aren't
Re:Steve Ballmer Says (Score:5, Funny)
"Neeearly... it's at 96%"
Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
For a short while people were willing to forgo Windows for the form factor and price of a netbook. Then Moore's law ticked over and Microsoft was able to enter that market - same price for the machine but with the specs that XP needs. Next iteration they'll be selling units with Vista on them. The only way to keep Microsoft out is to race to the bottom and there's no economic incentive for the hardware manufacturers to do that.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
one word: ARM
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, it's an acronym. ;-)
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Funny)
I think his're point was actually a joke.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
MS has an IA64 release of Windows and it probably costs them a fortune to maintain for little benefit other than to let Intel know they support them, even when they are epic failures. I wouldn't hold my breath for an Windows 7 ARM edition.
I guess regarding this farfetched 96% statistic... Look who it's coming from. Brought to you by the same market researchers who contended the 13-17 year old music listeners would accept ad-supported music. The 96% figure seems more likely to be a massive error in calculation than anything.
I've spoken with a few retailers about their Netbook selection and as far as I can tell, Linux dominates based on price. Sure, I don't have hard data to back it up but 96% seems off-the-map implausible.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS137134+31-Mar-2009+BW20090331 [reuters.com]
Windows on ARM (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think that MS came up with Windows for Itanium just to "let Intel know they support them." They did it because they thought Itanium would be the Next Big Thing. As did a lot of other software vendors — all the major Unixes had Itanium versions, though they were mostly cancelled once the schedule started slipping.
Of course, Itanium is now seen as a white elephant, and all the effort people put into developing for it was wasted. But that's hindsight.
Just because MS got burned with Itanium doesn't mean they'll automatically stay away from ARM. If they see the whole netbook market taking off and face real competition from ARM netbooks, they might just do it.
The big stumbling block might be simple technology. ARM is, by design, a very simple, unsophisticated chip. I have to wonder if it can keep up with all the overhead of running Windows.
Re:Windows on ARM (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with ARM for MS is that one of the major reasons people give for sticking with Windows is:
"But I can't run $APP without Windows!"
Take away their ability to run $APP anyway and they'll be just as well off on another OS. Which is where linux could win because the likes of debian already have the majority of their software available for ARM.
It might not win in any significant wat, but at that point you are starting to kick away at the dominance of the prevailing monoculture.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Informative)
And where were the retailers you talked to?
There are no longer any Linux netbooks for sale at physical retail stores where I live (USA). No, it's not that they're out of stock frequently (as some Windows models are); they are no longer kept in stock.
Target is the only retailer that even lists Linux models on their website; they used to sell the 7" Eee PC in stores. Now they sell Windows models in-store & advertise them, as do all the other retail stores that sell computers.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Funny)
You live in the whole USA?!
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
"There are no longer any Linux netbooks for sale at physical retail stores where I live (USA). No, it's not that they're out of stock frequently (as some Windows models are); they are no longer kept in stock.
Target is the only retailer that even lists Linux models on their website; they used to sell the 7" Eee PC in stores. Now they sell Windows models in-store & advertise them, as do all the other retail stores that sell computers."
The conspiracy theory loving part of me wonders if that was actually sales driven, or driven on the golf course. :-\
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Informative)
You're right. I'm in Canada and you simply cannot purchase a netbook with Linux on it from the local retail.
Even the "refurbished" ones have XP which makes me think that MS is helping the refurbish.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That means that 4% of netbook owners have wiped off XP and installed Ubuntu. C'mon, people, you can do better than that!
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Informative)
Not only linux versions are hard or impossible to find but because of the licensing agreements with M$ (for XP) the hardware specs are crippled to 1GB RAM and 160GB hdd. So if you want a larger hdd and 2GB RAM (many people do, take a look at forum.eeeuser.com) you need to buy them yourself and then decide if ebay is worth the trouble for the parts you took out (which might be a bad idea in case you need to send the device back for warranty). So not only you pay extra for windows with no way out (even if you want to use linux on the machine or if you already have a transferable license for XP or why not even Vista) but you also pay for a 1GB RAM stick and a small(ish) hard drive. These add up to quite a lot, easily 20-30% of the tag price.
Re: epic failures (Score:5, Funny)
No, we'll always have PA-RISC.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Everybody knows they run AIX.
Re: epic failures (Score:5, Insightful)
That made me sad. Alphas were good chips.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Stay away from that -1%. They're not your friends.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Christ.
Every netbook article on Slashdot, somebody brings up the ARM chip. Fine. ARM.
Here's a challenge: link me to an ARM netbook I can buy right now. Not a "development platform" not some in-development idea, but an actual physical piece of hardware I can walk into Fry's right now and buy off the shelf. Sure you can find AMD netbooks, but ARM netbooks? Nah. Far and away, it's Atom.
This weird Slashdot hallucination that ARM matters in the netbook market gets sadder and sadder as Intel Atom CPUs dominate mo
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
They exist already. For example, the RazorBook [buy.com]. They run Wince... I mean Win CE.
40 hours seems quite plausible. If you figure an iPhone battery has a capacity of about 5.18 Watt hours (1400 mAh * 3.7V) according to ipodbatteryfaq.com [ipodbatteryfaq.com] and it handles computation at blast for several hours on a charge, ignoring the extra power for a larger screen for the moment, if it had a battery the size of a MacBook (62.4 Watt hours according to System Profiler's battery stats on mine), it would last on the order of 60
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
ARM CPUs have been around for a while. They powered the last decade of handheld computers and PDAs (as well as some of the early "netbook" type devices, which didn't catch on due to their $1500-2000 "business user" price tags). There is probably one in your TV, alarm clock, digital camera, media player, stereo, and God knows what else.
ARM CPU are not "new to the market"; they're everywhere, and have been used in similar devices (as well as the big, expensive drool-over type servers and high-end workstations
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But Windows CE sucks and people know it. Although it's not everyone yet, like Vista, but really, a lot of people already know Windows CE sucks.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Funny)
Is there any other way to call it? 'Race to the bottom' sounds so crass. Perhaps 'delivering better customer value by focusing on essential factors while reducing extraneous costs?' I raced to the bottom once and I found really weird stuff there...
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:4, Interesting)
Your euphemism is clever. When your PHB uses it to describe why your job has been eliminated, let us know if it still sounds clever.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
The only way to keep bloated software out is to race to the bottom, the only way to keep Microsoft out is to provide an alternative that surpasses it in desirability.
If we all used $100 machines, that were 500mhz, and 10GB's of HD space etc, Microsoft will just create trimmed down versions to run on it, thus not getting rid of Microsoft.
But if you have something that personal and corporate users prefer over Microsoft's products, then it doesn't matter how low or highly spec'd the machine is, they'll want that software.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
> The only way to keep Microsoft out is to race to the bottom and there's no economic
> incentive for the hardware manufacturers to do that.
There is no incentive for the CURRENT manufacturers to do that. But if you aren't in the laptop/pc business right now there is good reasons to see an opportunity to have the first $150 laptop and sell the ever luvin crap out of them as Xmas impulse items through retail outlets that won't care about cannibalizing their laptop sales because they don''t currently sell computers at all.
By your logic we would have never seen the $24.99 DVD player because "Who wants to race to the bottom." No, Sony or Phillips didn't do it but no name Chinese outfits did it and make a profit at it. The computer is poised to make that last transition to disposable consumer electronics.
They won't be trying to kill Microsoft, it will just be that they can't give em enough royalties to matter when selling on consumer electronics margins. So even if Microsoft made em a deal, once the marketplace finishes the move to consumer electronics Microsoft is going to be a shadow of it's former self. And Apple is just as boned.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
As Torvald's once said I have not set out to destroy MSFT it is a completely unintentional side effect.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
And Apple is just as boned.
Three things come to mind:
1. Apple has always focused on the higher-end market. This market will always be there, even when $150 netbooks are a reality.
2. Apple makes the OS, and can afford to make essentially zero on it if needed on a netbook.
3. Apple has done very well in consumer electronics this century.
1 and 3 really don't matter much to MS in this regard. Number 2, though, will be the tough one. They could possibly sell a $5 version of Windows for netbooks, although it won't be easy.
Just imagine, it could be cheaper to buy a netbook with Windows, and then use the Windows license on your full-powered PC (leaving you with a perfectly Linux-ready netbook), than it is to buy Windows retail (or even OEM).
Really, I think MS is much more vulnerable here. If you think about it, MS doesn't sell you anything tangible, just bits. At least Apple sells hardware. Once people stop seeing value in the bits (*if* that ever happens), MS has nothing to sell, and Apple does.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Just imagine, it could be cheaper to buy a netbook with Windows, and then use the Windows license on your full-powered PC
Except, of course, that Windows OEM licenses are not transferrable between machines, so you can't legally run the copy of Windows that came with your netbook on anything other than the netbook it came with.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That was 6 months ago, and she is really happy with it and hasn't had to come back for help
This is called 'winning the battle but losing the war'.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That does not make sense. The primary purpose of a netbook should be to launch a browser, the new API. If "netbooks" are being returned because they do not have windows, they were likely, not netbooks. ASUS pretty much created the
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
IIRC Acer's VP said that returns of their Linux netbooks are 30% higher than the Windows versions, however ASUS's CEO says that return rates for EeePcs are the same for Linux models as for Windows [laptopmag.com]
This probably reflects a difference between Acer and ASUS. Acer netbooks are sold as small notebooks, while the Eee aren't really sold as notebook replacements, but rather as their own, separate type of computer. Basically, people expect the Eee to be different than their Windows notebook or desktop, and so aren't immediately put off by the interface, whereas Acer customers are sold a "tiny laptop computer", buy the Linux version, and get upset when it's not exactly like what they're used to.
Well, and Linpus sucks (Score:3, Interesting)
Because they might not be getting Windows but they SURE as hell ain't getting Linux either. I got one and I removed that piece of crap and installed a real OS as soon as I could put an image on a USB stick.
Linux of course, arch linux if you must know, but something I control, not Acer.
Linpus is horribly locked down and doesn't even have Firefox 3 by default. Updates are way to complicated. Sorry, but it seems like little more then those DOS machines Dell sells you because they have to supply an OS to kee
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think what happened is that lots of people want a "portable computer" to do more than just access the web. They want something they can use to do word processing, spreadsheets and presentations (which for most people means Microsoft Office). They want something to connect to their email (which often means they need Outlook). Lots of people are sold on the idea of a device that can do these things that doesn't cost as much as a laptop (with some cellphone carriers offering bundles of netbooks and mobile br
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Informative)
Car Phone Warehouse sold an early version of the MS Wind which came with Linux but which didn't have drivers for the wifi or webcam. Wouldn't you return that? Unless you were a Linux geek or installing Windows, I'm sure that you would.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a phyrric victory. They've sacrificed the perceived cost of Windows by selling it at rock bottom prices. And prolonged the lifespan of XP at the cost of Vista penetration. In mitigation, they impose a bunch of arbitrary restrictions on OEMs for selling XP - http://www.netbooknews.it/en/netbook-xp-ecco-i-vincoli-microsoft/ [netbooknews.it] for details.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:4, Insightful)
Linux beat Vista by infinity percent, though.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Informative)
it wasn't Moore's Law, it was Microsoft financing and marketing kickback programs. Did you notice how Asus, after negotiating putting Windows XP on the EeePC they then changed the hardware such that the Linux versions were more expensive? We all know Linux distros easily run on anything Windows runs on but not the other way around. So Asus beefed up the hardware for the Linux models, beefed up the price, and then would only make 50% Windows based and 50% Linux based and some countries were no longer getting Linux versions at all.
It was monopoly money that changed the netbook market share numbers instead of market demand defining those numbers.
LoB
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Then Moore's law ticked over and Microsoft was able to enter that market - same price for the machine but with the specs that XP needs.
Ah, but it isn't the same price. The original Eee PC was at a $200-$300 price point. These new "netbooks" are sometimes up to $1000 for a small-form-factor notebook, but they're completely different from the real "netbook", ie. a cheap-as-possible subnotebook that exists purely for internet browsing and possibly media playback. If it's got more grunt than is required to render a webpage or play back a DivX movie, then it's too expensive to be a netbook.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
What sacrifice? It's good for customers. It's no sweat for Linux distributions. And hardware manufacturers have shown that they can make sufficient margins to make sub-$300 systems profitable, or they wouldn't be making them at all.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially the newer LinuxBIOS, which kicks the tar out of that piece of proprietary and undocumented debris that AMI has been foisting on suckers for the past decade or so. Being forced to cooperate with a superior, open source BIOS such as that on the OLPC project. I'm looking forward to massive delight to Microsoft having to hold its news and get comfortable with the superior, much faster booting system to make Microsoft's painfully slow boot processes look bad.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
Can you explain why I, as a consumer, should care about having an open-source BIOS?
Pragmatic responses only, please. The average consumer doesn't care about open-source ideologies.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
Can you explain why I, as a consumer, should care about having an open-source BIOS?
Because you think it's spiffy going from cold metal to a login prompt in under two seconds, and because no single vendor is capable of delivering that on more than a small handful of hardware configurations.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Insightful)
With new booting software and Linux, your computer will now turn on faster than your cell phone.
To a full-fledged desktop linux?
I was under the impression that the true "instant-boot" linuxes were generally tiny distributions that could fit into EPROM (or whatnot).
I get the fact that it's nice to cut out many of the unnecessary functions performed by legacy BIOS, though that seems like a rather tough sell to consumers, especially given that EFI seems to do much of the same.
Although I'm sure there's room for speed improvements with BIOSes, booting the operating system still takes at least an order of magnitude more time.*
*BeOS is one exception to this generalization. Even back in its heyday, it booted up blindingly fast. However, I suppose you could argue about its qualification as a full-fledged OS.
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
yup, it's when Microsoft throws in all those extra marketing dollars and other kickbacks which usually define what an OEM ships preloaded. I had heard of an HP product based on Linux and Java getting canned because the HP marketing department said they'd lose money on the entire product line if the new Linux product shipped because Microsoft would cut off the payments for putting Windows on the systems.
Not every OEM is going to stand up against MS and not take the kickbacks when it means increased profits as long as the product sells. The problem for the OEM is when the user experience is diminished because Windows bloat and anti-virus requirements eats into sales. Microsoft would not care because they'd protect their market if the netbook market failed to get established as a regular device sector/market. They know they'll be losing money on this segment so its failure is good for them. Kinda how they blocked alot of uptake of the OLPC, got them to start playing with Windows, delay, delay, delay and now OLPC is floundering and still now Windows on OLPC.
ARM is a twist in this Microsoft is going to have a tough time with since there are too many advantages of that system for this market. The price goes down and Windows really has tougher time on the platform while Linux still does great and is easier for the OEM to customize for the product. I believe ARM is what is going to keep netbook growth going and prevent Microsoft from causing the market to shrink and this will eventually show up on their financials. IMO.
LoB
Re:Honeymoon is over (Score:5, Interesting)
ARM is going to create many problems for Microsoft. There are to many Chinese manufacturers who are or will be making cheap Linux netbooks for sale in China. They will be hitting the shores of other countries as well.
These companies have never gotten a penny from Microsoft. There is nothing Microsoft has to offer them. There is plenty of money for them to make selling ARM based Linux netbooks.
If someone was smart they would make a commercial giving someone $200.00 to by a computer that can do YouTube, Facebook, cam and edit documents....with 10 hour battery life. Nope $500 PC can't do it. $1000 PC can't do it. But the $179.00 netbook does.
Microsoft can't stop it. Every time Moores law pushes down the price of x86 hardware, AMR hardware prices drop as well. Kids will love getting a $150.00 computer. Microsoft can't compete. There is no way they can create a copy of Seven or XP that will be ARM based in the next few years. They have to give up this market.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
People want something that actually functions, not a complete piece of crap. Windows CE has to be the least functional OS I've ever seen, even beyond the windows 7 idea where you can only run 3 programs at once.
So once again, they have no competition for ARM.
96% percent penetration eh? (Score:5, Funny)
Way to go Netbook! Getting to home base 96% of the time would make any frat boy proud.
Freebie? (Score:5, Interesting)
How does Redmond make an 80% gain in netbook market share without the sales numbers reflecting that gain?
By giving it away? B-)
Re:Freebie? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
- Linux: 3 millions (30%)
- Windows: 7 millions (70%)
Let's say that reaching the "claim" period" there have been another 20 millions netbook sold and that they were all (?) Windows-based:
Totals: - Linux: 3 millions (10%)
- Windows: 27 millions (90%)
Let's even consider the 20% return rate for the Linux-based ones:
- Linux: 2.4 millions (8.1%)
- Windows: 27 millions (91.9%)
Even if the maths is correct, their claim is higher t
Simple question, simple answer (Score:5, Insightful)
How does Redmond make an 80% gain in netbook market share without the sales numbers reflecting that gain?
That's easy, netbooks aren't sold in a comparable quantity, so a staggering increase of 80% reflects a tiny shift in the overall license count. Got any other braindead statistics questions for me?
Next Gen Arm based netbooks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Assuming that these figures are correct & MS has managed to grow their share of the netbook market....let's not forget:
1) They had to keep XP around to do so.
2) Linux has proved itself good enough that manufacturers will consider it.
3) Pulling the same stunt on the rash of $150 arm-based netbooks that will be hitting the shelves later this year will be much harder.
Re:Next Gen Arm based netbooks. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Next Gen Arm based netbooks. (Score:5, Informative)
http://blog.laptopmag.com/ubuntu-confirms-linux-netbook-returns-higher-than-anticpated [laptopmag.com]
Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if they count my shiny new Acer Aspire One? Yeah, it came with XP, and yeah, XP is still on the hard drive, but I installed Linux on the first day, and have spent about 1% of my time in Windows since then. I would call that a Linux computer, but I suppose they call it a Windows computer.
Re:Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics (Score:5, Funny)
most of my friends that got netbooks with linux installed windows on them
Sounds like you need new friends
Re:Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics (Score:5, Funny)
Clearly all computers sold with linux should include the price of a windows license to combat piracy.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"I wonder if they count my shiny new Acer Aspire One"
And, BTW, it's not personal. Their bonuses depend on it.
Re:Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics (Score:5, Funny)
No cause for alarm, totally expected (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't shocking at all. The netbook market isn't what it used to be, mostly I suspect because Microsoft AND the hardware makers recoiled in horror from what was happening. Look at the original netbook:
Old cheap Celeron CPU
7-9" Display
2-8GB Flash storage
512MB-1GB RAM
Weight 1KG
Price centered around $350 +/- $50
Now look at what passes for a netbook:
1.6Ghz Atom
10" Display
160GB HDD
1-2GB RAM
Weight 1-2KG
Price $300 to $500
The original specs couldn't run XP very well, and it wasn't an option. Vista was right out. So Microsoft brought back XP and everyone amped up the specs until it ran nicely. After all the new above average netbook was a kick ass desktop when XP was introduced.
Add in the fact all of the major netbook makers also make notebooks and desktops and thus need Microsoft's good will and it is easy enough to see how most netbooks now ship with Windows. Anyway, at the current prices and specs they are more like small laptops anyway and pretty much 100% of those have always shipped with Windows.
Wait for the ARM invasion. If hardware CAN run Windows vendors are always going to get pressured to load it. The ARM machines simply can't do it. Give a choice between a full Linux desktop, Android and WinCE and Microsoft's offering is going to come up a little short.
Sooner or later we will see netbooks under $200 and that is where things will get fun. If they give out Windows licenses cheap enough to put it on sub $200 units it will either force an across the board cut in all OEM licensing or really tick a lot of people off.
Re:WinCE vs Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
> If you can do that with WinCE as well as Linux, then what difference does it make?
First off, Linux has a full software stack. A real working Firefox with most of the expected plugins, OO.o, etc. WinCE has what exactly? To date it, and the apps written for it, have mostly been geared around PDAs and smart phones, usually with a touch screen.
WinCE isn't Windows. The main advantage Windows has for the average customer is the known quantity. It's Windows, just like on the other machines they interact with at home, school, work, friends, etc. The same programs run, etc. WinCE has none of those advantages, in fact the association with Windows will only confuse as it will lead the clueless to think it IS Windows and then be disillusioned when it is discovered to be something completely different.
WinCE will raise the per unit cost of the machine though, and if it isn't to cut too deeply into Microsoft's profits it is going to have to cost a lot to keep the monopoly rents flowing in. Meanwhile the pengin is still Free except for the ARM port of the Flash plugin.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
> After the debacle most of the vendors had in Linux support on their netbooks..
Yes, many though they could simply wave the magic Pengin around and make the whole software side disappear from the balance sheet. Idiocy like shipping a SuSE on a machine with a webcam but no driver support. I'd have returned turds like that too.
On the other hand Asus and some of the more clueful OEMs got it right. They report return rates in line with other computer products.
> ..most will be happy to use M$ if the lice
25$ Win XP? (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft is probably telling the truth (Score:5, Insightful)
This goes against the prevailing wisdom here, but Linux is not necessarily the best OS for netbooks.
The newest netbooks have about as much CPU power and memory as a notebook computer made 3 years ago. That's enough to run windows XP and older Microsoft applications such as office 2003.
And, Windows has the overwhelming advantage it always did : it has an enormous existing software library that still dwarfs that of Linux. An operating system is an enormously powerful natural monopoly. It's time to admit that the only way Linux or MacOS could ever pull ahead and have the diversity of software Windows has is if Microsoft royally screws up over a period of years. Windows ME didn't even scratch Microsoft's monopoly, because everyone kept using Win98, and it appears that Vista is the same way.
Finally, I've heard many complain that the netbook manufacturers don't properly choose a good Linux distro and configure it with all the software a user is likely to ever need. If the manufacturers did that, pre-installing open office and VLC media player and firefox and the rest, and tuned the distro behind the scenes to run blazing fast on a flash disk, then Linux might have stayed a viable option.
I would assume Microsoft has also adapated to this market : they must be offering a substantial discount on the software license for a netbook. Wouldn't surprise me if they were selling "XP for netbook use" for $20 a license. It could very well be that it is cheaper to pay Microsoft than it is to pay the technical support costs for Linux.
Re:Microsoft is probably telling the truth (Score:5, Interesting)
That's funny, the exact reason I bought a Wind was because I don't play fancy ass games much and that's why I prefer Ubuntu...
Since it's such a bitch to refund the copy of XP that came on my Wind, I just ripped off the key sticker and sold it to my friend for $25.
Re:Microsoft is probably telling the truth (Score:4, Insightful)
I might be uninformed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You are totally uninformed. The Dell Mini ships with Ubuntu 8.04 (LTS) with a weird Dell interface, which can be disabled in 1 click.
Let's not forget... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where can I buy a Linux netbook? (Score:5, Insightful)
Last week I walked into no fewer than 20 different computer stores here in Taiwan (the home of ASUS, Acer, MSI, etc), big and small, in order to buy a Linux netbook. But despite the fact that some of them displayed as many as 20 different brands and models, I found exactly 0 (zero!) netbooks shipping with Linux. Zero, nada, nothing! It just doesn't exist any more.
So yes, I believe Microsoft and its 96% figure. While people had choice between Linux and Windows, the figure was very different, but since the consumers are no longer offered a Linux option, even 96% seems low. The situation with netbooks is now exactly the same as with laptops - it's 2009 and it's still impossible to buy one without Windows pre-installed!
I always have to laugh when I read news about EU suing Microsoft for bundling a browser or a media player with Windows, but fails to see the real issue - Microsoft's complete stronghold over hardware manufacturers. ASUS, Acer, MSI, Dell, HP - they all "recommend Windows for everyday computing" on their web sites. Out of their free will, no doubt...
Different story in Germany (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Out of their free will, no doubt...
Nah, it's out of the kindness of their hearts ... they're kind of scared of Microsoft.
Windows == not a netbook (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole point of netbooks was supposed to be that they *weren't* PC's, they were consumer electronics devices. Quickie access to the Internet, a little photo sharing and music playing
I'm more interested in the next generation of netbooks -- the ones that will cost $150-200 and run for eight or nine hours on one battery charge -- running low-power ARM and a designed for small form factor OS like Android. That generation of hardware will prove that a netbook isn't supposed to act like a PC. (And even if Microsoft weasels its way into that market by building Windows for ARM, they'll still find themselves at a disadvantage because x86 Windows software won't run on it. In fact, they'll even be faced with an unprecedented rate of customers returning them for just that reason.)
Let PC's be PC's and let netbooks be netbooks. They're not the same thing.
Re:Windows == not a netbook (Score:4, Insightful)
Ummm...no that's apparently what you thought. If that were the case more of them would have shipped with such OS's. Wait, they didn't exist.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Congratulations sir, you've successfully applied the problem-solving techniques pioneered by the Bush administration!
1) Problem : 96% of netbooks run Windows
2) Solution : Redefine "netbook" to exclude anything that runs Windows
3) Problem solved : 0% of netbooks run Windows!!!
Yeah, but here's the thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
I got one of them fancy Samsung NC10 netbooks (Atom 1.6GHz, gig RAM, XP pre-installed).
My OS of choice?
Mozilla Firefox.
At least that's where I spend 99% of my time on it.
Aside from the fact that MS probably counts shipped units to come up with its "96%" claim, does it really matter whether Linux geeks or Microsoft (or both) claim me as a user? The underlying OS identity is about as relevant to me as the manufacturer of the 2.5" hard drive the unit comes with. I stuck with XP since it was the path of least resistance.
Discuss...
In A Related Story... (Score:3, Funny)
Not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
We had an internship for a group of college students over winter break. For completing their task, they each got an Acer Aspire One. Most of the students had 2 - 5 year old laptops and the freaking netbooks had the same speed processors with more ram, larger HDD (120GB), and even more Video Ram (32MB vs 8MB shared).
Biggest complaints were lack of media drive and screen size. But after classes started again, they loved 'em. Perfect for taking notes and running most of their programs and they fit inside their backpacks without having to lug around an extra laptop bag.
But again, they all wanted XP. (and were glad it wasn't vista)
Enjoying my Linux eee, ordering another (Score:4, Insightful)
Yea, love my linux netbook. I am going to order another.
If there is someone to blame in this mess, it is the netbook makers for insisting on putting their own bastardized versions of linux on them. Jut put one of a million stock distros on it, and provide the drivers. The community will do the rest. Once they figure that out, their profit margins for linux will double.
Microsoft: 96% Of Netbooks Run Windows (Score:3, Informative)
TFA title leaves something out, 96% of the netbooks in the US run Windows. Worldwide Linux runs 25% [computerworld.com] of the netbooks.
Falcon
Windows Is Not on 96% of Netbooks (Score:3, Informative)
'Windows Is Not on 96% of Netbooks
Re:Because they are NOT NETBOOKS (Score:4, Insightful)
You're doing the same thing by making up your own definition which excludes XP.
The fact that once XP is included in the definition the number of netbooks with XP on them vs Linux on them kind of implies that XP has some bearing on what people want on their netbooks.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
and in all original incarnations
5) Linux based
While the EEE 700 (which I consider the original netbook, I don't really consider the OLPC a netbook thuogh it does have similarities with them) did initially ship with linux ASUS included instructions for installing XP and later added 700 series models with XP as standard.
With the EEE 900 which afaict was the first series to be widely cloned windows XP was an option from the start.
P.S. even the high end netbooks don't have specs equivilent to a normal entry lev
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
NT4 came for 4 different architectures.
They could do it again.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They did it in a time that there was a difference between server-grade, enterprise-grade and desktop-grade software. Their desktop software was DOS and Windows NT wasn't really usable for any type of desktop use. The code base was very small, 1 or 2 API's to speak off, the video and some other subsystems were in userland (not integrated in the kernel) and only a few simple apps. They were also helped by IBM and had developers that were used to programming for multiple architectures.
Now things have become a
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It is the most widely used CPU in the world, but has never had any significant market share in the general purpose computing segments.
Its a processor for embedded devices, pure and simple.