HP Accused of Illegal Exportation To Iran 287
AdamWeeden writes "According to research done by the Boston Globe, HP has been secretly using a third-party company to sell printers to Iran. This is illegal under a ban instituted in 1995 by then US President Bill Clinton. The third-party company, Redington Gulf, operates out of Dubai and previously stated on their web site that the company began in 1997 with 'a team of five people and the HP supplies as our first product, we started operations as the distributor for Iran,' though now the site has been changed to remove the mention of Iran. Has HP unknowingly been supplying Iran with technology or have they been trying to secretly get by the US government's export restrictions?"
HPSetup SSID (Score:5, Funny)
Nice to hear that another country has its entire WLAN infastructure polluted by "Hpsetup" SSIDs!
Re:HPSetup SSID (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Dear sir.
Look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/716237.stm [bbc.co.uk] - I couldn't find the piece where they were mentioning the Gameboy hardware but I clearly remember it.
And this proves you're a stinky asshole :P - note the funny emoticon after the offending sentence.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You should switch it to the address of the new residents so they think the previous owners left a wireless router somewhere in the house turned on.
Schadenfreude, fun for the whole family.
eh hum.... (Score:5, Funny)
Yes.
Oh, and Timmy...please use a modern browser w/spell checking, thanks.
Re:eh hum.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:eh hum.... (Score:4, Insightful)
HP and other printing manufs. have worked with various govts. to enable certain embedded tracking technologies that allow security agents to trace printed materials back to the hardware used to create it.
This is all well and good, but only if your suspects use it - this is where the need to 'avoid' certain govt. regulations comes into play. And if you do it legally, then your prey might get wind of the trap. Just like in the movies, where the undercover cop gets busted right along with the bad buys so that he can continue to pull the wool over their eyes...hopefully.
Re:eh hum.... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:eh hum.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is things like this that I find interesting about the behavior of our present administration(and, I'll note, some past ones, though they tended not to play the apocalyptic side nearly as hard). When it comes to talking about how dire the threat posed by Iran, or terrorists, or whoever it is, no description is too grandiose, no measure to severe or too costly. When it comes to actually doing something that might upset the corporate sponsors, though, all that is off. The west is supposed to be locked in some sort of existential struggle of civilizations, and you are telling me that we can't keep HP from selling printers to Iran, or get Bechtel to build barracks that don't electrocute our own people?
I suppose this shouldn't really surprise me, half of American "captains of industry" seem to have spent WWII goose-stepping; but the dissonance still throws me. People talk like this is a matter of total war; but regulate like it doesn't matter at all.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
yeah, because there are a ton of good printing options in Iran.
I can see it now:
Now introducting Al-Dirka Hassan's Muhamdojet 1000! It can print 5 millihectares with a single cartridge of sheeps blood!
It is compatible with any type of papyrus or parchment!
Re:eh hum.... (Score:4, Interesting)
I understand that this is tongue in cheek post, but in practice, I've found that a lost of fellow Westerners don't realize what Iran is - they think it's an authoritarian theocracy (correct), and therefore overly backwards and often lumped together with the likes of Afghanistan and Iraq (not correct). Iran has a population of 70 million people, a rather well developed economy and industry (not just machinery, but advanced stuff like pharma and biotech). Its military industry is strong enough to design and produce pretty much the whole range of military equipment, from assault rifles and tanks to fighter planes and submarines.
Re: (Score:2)
justify the risk of getting caught
Just like the drug market (or any other black market), the "risk of getting caught" is calculated into the price you pay.
ink (Score:5, Insightful)
i think Iran should be allowed to buy printers. Ink is more expensive than oil and with HP's / Lexmark's, etc. business model, I'd say making them buy ink to print is nearly an act of economic war more effective than the trade embargo itself.
[/humor]
Re:ink (Score:5, Insightful)
i think Iran should be allowed to buy printers. Ink is more expensive than oil and with HP's / Lexmark's, etc. business model, I'd say making them buy ink to print is nearly an act of economic war more effective than the trade embargo itself.
[/humor]
I don't see why it should be such a horrible thing to sell printers to Iran in the first place... ZOMG! IRAN IS GETTING PRINTERS!!!! AH!!! RUN!!! NEXT THEY'LL HAVE THE BOMB!
Some (most? all?) of these trade embargos are just straight up stupid. The idea is like this. We don't like this country doing XY... so we won't sell them anything until they do it the way we like it. So, basically, let's PISS THEM OFF MORE, to get our desired effect? It's like the ultimate in passive-aggressive international policy.
It's like, I could sell printers to people in countries where they are actively committing genocide, but I can't sell printers to people in this other country, because my government doesn't like them? Retarded... seriously...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The printers in question contain processors that are capable of doing more then controling A print head with precision and shooting a laser onto a series of drums with accuracy as good as or better then most printing presses.
But that's not even the root of the thing, you don't attempt to get your kid to do his homework by giving them a pizza party and renting the newest action movies for him to watch. The trade embargo is specifically designed to keep tech out of Iran's hands and make it more expensive and
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No I don't think a US trade embargo will stop technology from getting to Iran. However, you don't give the guy who claims he is going to attack you a loaded gun. Make him find it on his own. I mean shit, should we mail the keys to a couple of jet airliners to Al Qeada and tell them where they will be parked and fuel them up for them?
Re:ink (Score:4, Funny)
A printer contains one or more step-step motors, microcontroller chips, a processor and a flash based firmware.
Assemble it with a hires webcam a little outsource in India/China a AK47 and you have got a very dumb sentry gun.
Re:eh hum.... (Score:5, Informative)
2007 estimates put the population of Iran at 70.4 million people, good for the 17th largest country in the world. Hardly a 'small' market
Re:eh hum.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't imagine that the Iran market is big enough to justify the risk of getting caught. But that's just me.
Yeah, that's just you. An oil-rich country with 70 million inhabitants, many of them middle-class, urbanized, literate, and under 30, is a gold mine.
Don't think Iran is anything like Afghanistan or Iraq. It is among the most developed countries in the Middle-East and Central Asia, and definitely the one with the best-educated population.
As a side note, finding common computing equipment and parts there is not a problem, and virtually everything imported to Iran either transits via Dubai or (more often than not) directly bought there to wholesale companies. The goods are then loaded on small wooden boats and shipped to Iran. Most of this trade escapes any sort of control (at least on the Dubai side of things).
In other words, the "US embargo on Iran" is a frigging joke, and a total waste of time.
Re:eh hum.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't think Iran is anything like Afghanistan or Iraq. It is among the most developed countries in the Middle-East and Central Asia, and definitely the one with the best-educated population.
FWIW, that's an honor that Iraq was in competition for, back before the embargoes.
Oh dear god (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Oh dear god (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Oh dear god (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Are you sure they weren't referring to the cryptographic messages that the printers give whenever there's an error?
Re: (Score:2)
Intelligence shows they have some papercraft weapons of mass distruction pointed at cities all over Western Europe.
Re:Oh dear god (Score:5, Funny)
"We gave Muslims top secret printer technology."
We also gave them HP printer drivers. That's like requiring them to throw shoes at themselves if they want to print.
PC LOAD LTR (Score:5, Funny)
PC load letter! FSCK!
Re: (Score:2)
PC load letter?? Allahu Akbar!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Samir: No one in this country can ever pronounce my name right. It's not that hard: Samir Na-gheen-an-a-jar. Nagheenanajar.
Ali Khamenei: Yeah, well at least your name isn't Ali Khamenei.
Samir: You know there's nothing wrong with that name.
Ali Khamenei: There was nothing wrong with it... until I was about 12 years old and that no-talent ass clown became Supreme leader of Iran and started screaming anti-US invective.
Samir: Hmm... well why don't you just go by Al instead of Ali?
Ali Khamenei: No way. Why should
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
They can now print G'Had pantalets at 28 ppm
What are pantalets? Tiny, tiny trousers?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
**Jihad
Unknowingly? (Score:5, Funny)
Only if you put big finger-quotes around "unknowingly".
On the other hand, maybe this is a secret government plot to bankrupt Iran by selling them cheap printers, then gouging them on cartridges.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't work for HP, but I do work for a large company that has more business abroad than here in the states.
I would have to say without any doubt that this had to be done unknowingly because at the company where I work they stress to each employee not to work with certain companies (and Iran is on the list) because if we do we will be in violation of US Export laws and the US government could decide that we can't export anything to any other country. That would cause me and just about every other person in
Re:Unknowingly? (Score:5, Funny)
they stress to each employee not to work with certain companies (and Iran is on the list)
Ah, yes. The great company of Iran.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not proof that a big company like HP wouldn't do it; just that they'd be creative in finding ways around the export restrictions.
And if they really were
Re:Unknowingly? (Score:5, Insightful)
but a Chinese business partner don't give a damn about those rules. They run extra stuff all the time from the sweatshops, fake bags, shirts, cell phones, iPods, etc. If you make it in China, they counterfeit it. HP can take their cut for their "IP", it's not like HP actually MADE any of that stuff, or the Chinese will ship the product with empty logo spots anyway and HP gets nothing.
Enforcing an embargo against any country is like trying to enforce the US labor unions in all those other countries! US companies are just middlemen now, they don't MAKE anything.
Re: (Score:2)
> Only if you put big finger-quotes around "unknowingly".
Also around "technology".
Re: (Score:2)
Our government can't be that competent, right?
Those commie bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
Printers? (Score:2)
Re:Least of the problems (Score:5, Insightful)
You know Canada had price controls on their goods in 1980, so...the US killed 2 million of us? Oh no wait you're just an uninformed troll.
IBM (Score:2, Insightful)
This is what IBM did during WWII to avoid the ban on sales to Nazi Germany.
You are with the free market system, or you are against it.
Ixnay on the interpay (Score:5, Funny)
shhhhhh.... it is a CIA ploy to bankrupt Iran via HP printer ink refills... would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling /.
Are IT embargoes even possible? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's for a moment gloss over whether those restrictions are good ideas. Are they even possible? I mean, we're talking about computing hardware here, the kind of stuff you can buy anywhere in the world without identification. It's not like a ban on nuclear materials where there's a limited supply and you can watch the sources pretty closely. So if HP quits selling to Iran, what's to stop them from buying from Turkey or England or India or Japan or China, and how could we ever pretend to know or that we could prevent it?
Re:Are IT embargoes even possible? (Score:5, Informative)
So if HP quits selling to Iran, what's to stop them from buying from Turkey or England or India or Japan or China, and how could we ever pretend to know or that we could prevent it?
Absolutely nothing, and in fact, that is what already happens. Embargoes against Iran are impossible. During my last trip there, the shops were littered with pretty much the same consumer goods - both electronic and not - that you would find here in the States.
For goods produced by U.S. companies, there is always a middle-man involved. I am not 100% sure who, but from talking to several small-business owners over there, they get most of their U.S. produced goods through Italy. There is a big mark-up on hardware, however. You can expect to pay the equivalent of several hundred dollars more for a top-of-the-line graphics card by Nvidia, for instance.
I know you're not really discussing whether they are a good idea, but I can't help but share my two cents. The embargoes are about as retarded as the ones on Cuba are. The embargoes will never "punish" the Iranian government as they will always have enough wealth and power to get whatever they want from Dubai. The people who suffer are the citizens of Iran who actually LIKE the U.S. and want a friendly, normal relationship.
With the trade deficit being as high as it is, and with a huge market in Iran wanting U.S. made items, it really makes no sense to keep these restrictions, especially since they are getting it through third-parties anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
What does the US actually "produce" anyways? Is there even one printer assembly line in the US? At some point we are going to realize letting other countries do all the hard work gives them power and prevents us from dictating terms.
Re: (Score:2)
The US outmanufactures everyone else, producing 2.5 times (either the next guy or the top markets combined; I can't remember, it was a very informative slashdot post). Look hard and you will find.
Just because the US and other G8 members don't produce cheap, unreliable, dangerous and synthetic crap doesn't mean they don't produce anything. I don't really have stuff that says "MADE IN CANADA" on the bottom... and yet we produce enough to be considered a G8 member. That money has to come from somewhere, and I
Re: (Score:2)
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So instead of a shipment of 300 computers for nuclear simulation and research, they only get 100, which lengthens the time before they can detonate a nuclear weapon.
Obvious troll regarding detonating a nuclear weapon aside, you missed the part where I said that the Government of Iran can get whatever they want, whenever they want. They have enough resources and contacts spread out through Lebanon, Dubai, France (who helped bring them the Ayatollah), Russia, and Italy to be able to get those 300 computers. They don't need a contract and licensing agreement with IBM or HP to get the computers that they need.
Also, the actual equipment needed to do "nuclear simulation and
Re:Are IT embargoes even possible? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not only that, but the company that's actually selling inside Iran is in Dubai. So how is this HP's fault in the first place? Last time I checked, we don't have any sanctions on Dubai, so it's perfectly legal for HP to sell its products to that middleman. Unless the sanction means that US companies can't even do business with people who do business with other people in Iran, but then how the hell do you police that?
All sanctions manage to accomplish is to give a dictatorial regime a convenient boogeyman for all their nation's problems. I'd like someone to list one time when sanctions actually accomplished anything useful beyond simply starving the innocent population of a nation of goods and services they might otherwise have bought.
Besides, if we removed the sanctions on Iran, they'd be covered in McDonald's, Starbucks, and Wal-Mart Supercenters with the latest American Idol blaring out of every speaker in the country so damn fast it would make your head spin. Now THAT's how you conquer another people without wasting money on bombs and bullets.
Re: (Score:2)
I was out on a shopping trip in Kuwait City with some friends and coworkers. We were in uniform - plainly US military. A rug merchant invited us to inspect his store.
"These are the very best rugs you can get. Iranian quality. Very best. Best prices," he assured us. One of my friends caught this and asked "are these Iranian rugs?" Iranian products are illegal to import in to the US. The store keeper paused his sales pitch for a brief second. "These are Persian rugs. Very best quality. You can buy
Re: (Score:2)
I would imagine they work pretty much the same way bans, embargoes, and tariffs work for all goods: exports and imports are declared by the sender and inspected at the border.
We (the US) have inspectors at every entry point into Iran? Remember, it's us trying to keep them from importing, not them trying to keep themselves from doing it.
We should be trading with them and everyone! (Score:4, Insightful)
At a time where our economy is taking a beating we should be glad that someone is willing to buy our stuff, even if they are crappy and actually made in China.
a total non issue .. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What so China can just buy all the Iranian oil at a reduced price? Politics and economics don't mix.
The Ayatolla.... (Score:3, Funny)
How can they stop that anyway? (Score:2)
If Iran wants HP printers, what's to stop some guy from going into a store in any other country where HP printers are available. Then, you just take them back to Iran. It's not like it's a nuclear sub or something. It's a printer for cryin' out loud. It fits in carry-on luggage. Of course, the Iranians would pay a hefty premium using such methods. It'd be easier to make wholesale arrangements via a 3rd country, which is probably what this deal ammounts to. If HP can wholesale printers in countries th
Didn't some TLA fund tor development? (Score:2)
TLA=Three Letter Agency
They can use tor to download anything they want from any US server, or they can simply connect to any other countries' mirrors.
That's why reading this [mozilla.org] is always mind-boggingly hilarious:
This source code is subject to the U.S. Export Administration Regulations and other U.S. laws, and may not be exported or re-exported to certain countries (currently Cuba, Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) or to persons or entities prohibited from receiving U.S. exports (including those (a) on the Bureau of Industry and Security Denied Parties List or Entity List, (b) on the Office of Foreign Assets Control list of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons, and (c) involved with missile technology or nuclear, chemical or biological weapons).
Hm, yeah, right, sure.
Re: (Score:2)
Total
Lunacy
Agency?
Re: (Score:2)
Reminds me of a bug I had to fix, caused by bundling an old library that conflicted with ours. So I tried downloading the 'jar' from Sun's Java web page only to find that due to export restrictions I had to be in the USA or Canada.
So legally I couldn't diagnose the problem because I couldn't download the offending software.
This for an encryption lib, of which a later version is included as part of the standard JRE and now possibly open-sourced...
Re: (Score:2)
Ooooh (Score:5, Funny)
Cunning Plan (Score:2, Funny)
Sell them (Iran) ink more expensive than oil until they become bankrupt.
Ahhh, HP LaserJet Printers (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It means:
LOAD the Print Cartridge with LETTER sized paper
Turn in your geek card.
Follow the money (Score:5, Interesting)
Around 1998 I got hired by a company that manufactured medical lab equipment. Just before I started, they got a HUGE order from Iraq, which at the time, was under UN embargo and the scandal-ridden oil-for-food program.
The type and quantity of equipment that was ordered was ASTOUNDING, and sent alarm bells off through-out my organization. This was an enormous order, which amounted to about 70% of our typical annual production (world-wide) for the specific products. On top of that, there was a second order for spare parts to fully rebuild 2/3 of the original order. The equipment was specifically designed to grow bacterial and viral cultures on a very large scale for research. 60 Minutes had just done an investigative report on Saddam's chief biological weapons expert, who to most western news was only known as "Dr. Germ".
Our organization was struggling, and we really needed the revenue. To the workers on the floor, it meant that the lay-offs had stopped, for the moment.
I was dismayed that the organization was not in the position just reject the order on principle. Instead, they submitted the order to Clinton Administration's Commerce Department and set up a contingency plan to sell the equipment through multiple intermediary companies if permission was denied. Our CEO then made a large donation to the Democratic National Committee, and magically the sale was approved and blessed by the Commerce Department as "Humanitarian Medical Equipment", which it clearly was not.
Many can claim that no WMD's were found in Iraq, but I have a very good insight to the scale of the program that they had put in place. Almost all politicians have a price, and none are as pure as the wind-driven snow. Where there is money to be made, the barriers can be overcome.
One would think that HP's consumer goods could not be easily adapted to nefarious purposes (beyond counterfeiting), but you never know. Most laser printers do contain processors that are far beyond the capability allowed to pass through the embargo. Desperate people become very resourceful.
-- Len
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I never heard about a huge stash of biological warfare equipment found in Iraq. It would have been all over Fox News and consequently the rest of the media, especially if the sale had been approved by Clinton.
So where did all that equipment go? Was Iraq purchasing it for North Korea or something? Or are you just full of it?
Re:Follow the money (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because you didn't see it on 24/7 cable news, doesn't mean that it didn't get found. A friend of mine was in the first wave of troops, and found a large WMD cache. The shells were in much better shape than those that were found later in the first month. That site was secured and there was no news of his find. While it does not make sense to the casual observer, not all discoveries are announced for political gain. I only found out about this because he was injured in a non-combat accident, and sent home.
The particular equipment I mentioned in my GP post looks quite innocuous and would probably be ignored by the first wave of troops, and likely looted for scrap by the Iraqis after Saddam's fall.
If you remember back to the Colin Powell UN Sec. Council presentation, we (the U.S,) were looking for mobil mass-production units. The equipment we sold was not for producing large amounts, but for the very large scale research effort required to identify successful strains of bacteria and viruses. Think millions of test tubes in a lab vs. large vats in a production process.
Without the research and strain isolation, the "weaponization" couldn't exist. There are thousands of labs all over the world that used our equipment to grow cultures. Iraq bought the equivalent of 70% of our annual production of our largest equipment, and plenty of accessories to keep all of them filled and productive. For some reason, I don't think that Iraq was trying to have a bacterial or viral space race to cure the common cold or to fight MRSA while dealing with crippling economic sanctions. The more likely use of this equipment was their acknowledged germ warfare program, especially given the massive amount of bacterial culture media used by this program [wikipedia.org].
-- Len
Re:Follow the money (Score:4, Interesting)
My conscience is clear and I no longer work for that firm.
I had to deal with months of sleepless nights, wrestling with that information. The anthrax scare in the immediate period after the 9/11 attacks brought fears of culpability through inaction. Those letters ended up being sent by one of our own deranged scientists.
Likewise, having friends and children of friends being sent to Iraq, clearly focused for me the tangled web we weave. Has anything you designed, built or coded been used to hurt other people? How about indirectly? What about actions taken for profit motives? Our equipment was designed for beneficial biological research. The actions of our CEO were arguably for the benefit of the shareholders and employees who depended on that order to stay in business. When the actual end use context is applied, the situation looks much uglier and quite scandalous.
The shocking thing for me about this episode is the amount of stuff that happened "above board". Sure, this company had a back-up plan of using foreign intermediaries. Instead, they went to the Commerce Department. The donation from our CEO showed up on public transparency websites dealing with campaign finance. The extremely close timing between the donation and the commerce department approval is not obviously linked, unless you know to look.
Transparency did not prevent this transaction, because there aren't enough watch dogs. Who is to say that every export license granted is for exactly what it says it is for? Sure we were sending equipment related to medical research, but there was a known absence of medical research and a known massive biological weapons program in existence at the time in Iraq. The dual-use nature of the equipment should have stopped the order in Commerce, but the right lubrication ($$) and the application of selective omission got the whole deal through.
We got Dr. Germ and her friend Dr. Anthrax. My gut feeling is that most of the equipment in this transaction was destroyed in the initial invasion, or looted in the aftermath. Either way, the equipment is no longer traceable and the biological weapons program no longer viable.
-- Len
Gulf War (Score:2)
Accidental my a$$.
This is precisely what went on prior to the Gulf War. US-made printers were smuggled into Iraq and laced with transponder chips that acted as beacons for air strikes and special ops.
Access to Technical Support (Score:2)
If they did p
Yes they have been illegally conspiring (Score:3, Interesting)
"Everyone does it!"
(( The following may or may not be fiction ))
I have personally witnessed similar activities being attempted by EFTDatalink/Amstar Systems (both entities run by the same people) trying to set up ATM based money transfers between the US and Mexico... yes... if your first thought was "drug money laundering" then you wouldn't be alone because talks with various money handling entities refused to talk to Amstar Systems about it and simply walked out of talks with the company's executives. "Amstar Mexico" was pursuing business activities in ALL of central and south america and CUBA. Amstar Mexico is free to deal with whoever they want... they are a Mexican company and they don't have those restrictions as far as I know.
Of course, all of the statements I just made are mostly based on my own recollection and may be inaccurate. My last contact with the operators of the company was well over 10 years ago. I believe my memory is accurate enough but should be treated as speculation or even as fiction. One of the executives at the time was an arrogant asshole of a lawyer and who knows what he might try to do to me if Slashdot offers little to no protection regarding my identity.
Re:Yes they have been illegally conspiring (Score:4, Interesting)
Wow! I may become a Christian yet! One of my prayers have been answered! It seems Amstar Systems and EFT Datalink are no longer in business!!! Google for either one and visit www.eftdatalink.com to see! The operators of those two entities were of questionable character and everything they did was suspect in my opinion. Good riddance... But I am sure there is yet ANOTHER name for another operation by the same people... look out for Robert "Bob" Farris when doing business with ATMs or the like in Texas or surrounding states.
This is a huge deal! (Score:4, Funny)
Given how technologically advanced HP printers have become, this presents a huge risk to national security. I'm mortally afraid that my comfy way of life has been jeopardized by HP's actions. President-Elect Obama needs to appoint a special prosecutor ASAP!
Actually, now that I think about it, my comfy life has already been jeopardized by HP products... anyone want a paperweight that just happens to look like a fancy scanner with ADF?
US Export Control Details (Score:2)
Exports from US companies are controlled by the Bureau of Industry and Security [doc.gov], part of the Department of Commerce.
In addition to the list of controls for each country [gpo.gov], most people are really, really surprised to read the list of controlled items -- the Commerce Control List [gpo.gov]. The list itself is Part 774, Catetegories 0 through 9, plus Supplements 2 and 3, linked at the bottom of the page.
One concept not well-known is that merely discussing a controlled technology in the presence of a foreign national from
Re: (Score:2)
As far as we could tell, we were bound by the US export rules, since the US companies making such high-tech wonders as the Z80 tied up their retailers in contracts which were
Or, the other option ... (Score:2)
" ... Has HP unknowingly been supplying Iran with technology or have they been trying to secretly get by the US government's export restrictions?" ..."
Or is HP supplying printers to Iran under direction from the US gov't, via clandestine means, like an "illegal" importer from the area, to the unsuspecting Iranian government, military, academia, and commerce? It's not the first time printers were used to gather intelligence ... I seem to recall a news story during the first year of Gulf War II about certain
The HP Sales Reps & Managers HAD to know (Score:2)
Whoever was the HP sales rep that was selling the printers to this intermediary company in Dubai, likely had a VERY good knowledge of where all those printers were going.
Whether that sales rep (or their boss) communicated this up the chain to senior execs, however, is anybody's guess.
Hmmm (Score:2)
Yup, about 5 barrels of HP branded inkjet ink should do it.
Re:ummm ... printers? (Score:5, Funny)
Weapons of Mass Instruction?
Re:ummm ... printers? (Score:4, Interesting)
The military is run very much like any other enterprise; cell phones, fax machines, computers, and -printers-. lots of paperwork. a big part of the military is moving data/information, documenting it, getting it in front of people to make decisions. alot of paying bills, aquiring supplies, etc.
anything that helps a business run pretty much helps the military run. the better it is, the more efficient the war machine is.
(although im sure some vets would disagree the paperwork helps anything... haha.. but you get the idea)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, the Iran War Machine is going to be FIERCE with all those printers, yeah, I'm shaking already
The US has modern planes, nuclear bombs, etc, Iran has PRINTERS, WOW, too close to call really...
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Actually, Iran's military, whether or not they're equipped with printers is one of the most modern in the region. Although their F-14 fighters are in storage to increase their lifetimes, they've reverse-engineered and heavily upgraded their F-5's to a fairly high standard. In addition, they've purchased high-end Russian fighters recently. A war between Iran and the US would be extremely costly for both sides, especially given Iran's propensity for using child soldiers.
And they can't buy it anywhere else (Score:3, Informative)
It's not like there was another country [wikipedia.org] a few thousand km away that made all sorts of IT products, including but not limited to printers, which just happened to want to buy exactly what Iran had a lot of [wikipedia.org].
Clearly, without US-made printers, the Iranian military is unable to function properly.
Re:globalization (Score:4, Insightful)
exactly, I'd doubt these printers ever touched US or allied soil. They probably went straight from China to Dubai. China will let HP get the money or simply run the factory overtime (counterfeits) and ship the printers from a different warehouse when the HP managers leave. HP USA has absolutely no control over HP China in matters like this. "be happy the Chinese pay HP to use the HP logo on the equipment, pray they don't alter the deal anymore".
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Nah, they're modern HP printers. Light pinch, then the printer breaks.
If they were LaserJet 4s, though...
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Nah
The prisoners are forced to troubleshoot printing problems with only the message "PC LOAD LETTER"
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You've obviously never been in an Iranian torture facility. They strap you to a chair, and force you to watch Titanic and Spice World in full Dolby digital surround sound, and in 3D. About an hour into the movies, the prisoners beg to be fed to the HP printers.
Hey, actually, this doesn't sound like a half-bad T.V. show. "Persian Science Theater 3000"
Hooman: Abbas, what the hell are we watching?
Abbas: I don't know Hooman, the box said "Plan 9 From Outer Space." I heard it won the Golden Raspberry Award, I th
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"You know, express their right to free speech and stuff?"
I think what you meant to say was that printers help information flow and that could encourage people to modernize their views.
There is no free speech in Iran- it's a concept that originated in the west.
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I'm quite sure he meant their human rights. Iran might not honor those, but that doesn't mean Iranians don't have them. Specifically, in this case, freedom of the press.
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Did it escape your attention that some of these printers have lasers?! Now all the Iranians need are some sharks and they'll hold us all hostage for One Hundred Billion Dollars!
Thanks a lot, HP.
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Is there some military use for this stuff, I am not aware of?
The build-sheet on a 5Si Laserjet is nearly equivalent to that of a Soviet T-34 [wikipedia.org] tank.
Have you never noticed the resemblance?
Wise up, man.
Re:ummm ... printers? (Score:5, Funny)
They already have the presses (Score:3, Informative)
Just before the islamic revolution, the Shah had acquired US made bank note printing presses, the exact same used to make US dollars.
So they can already make the most real fake notes.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Just before the islamic revolution, the Shah had acquired US made bank note printing presses, the exact same used to make US dollars. So they can already make the most real fake notes
The Shah has been out of power for close to 30 years. The look and technology of U.S. currency has changed much in that time. There is much more to it than just the presses.
Being an oil-exporting nation, isn't it likely that Iran has enough cash without resorting to fake currency?
Trade restrictions and currency are separate
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I can't imagine it hurting, since Halliburton got dinged for doing the same thing (with Iraq and Libya, and, IIRC, directly, not through a cut-out) in the 1990s, and it didn't hurt its subsequent military contracts.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmm.. san act of war. I guess it would be an act of war when they jack up the tariffs so that their citizens prefer buying their domestic crap over our now artificially expensive exported crap too. Right? I mean anything to break the free market is an act of war right? That's what your saying isn't it.
The embargo is there because Iran can't play well with others and it's attempting to obtain Nuclear weapons so it doesn't have to listen to people telling them to play nice. It isn't just the US, almost all of