$399 Mac Clone Most Likely a Hoax 233
timholman writes "According to Gizmodo, an investigation has shown that the $399 OpenMac is almost certainly vaporware, as is Psystar itself. The company's address has actually changed twice this week, according to its web page, and Psystar is no longer accepting credit card transactions. Too bad for those who may have already ordered an OpenMac."
Vaporware? Hoax? (Score:5, Insightful)
If they've been accepting orders (and credit card numbers) for a product that doesn't exist -- isn't that called fraud?
I know there can be concern about legal implications in making such statements... but surely the way to protect yourself is to make only statements backed up by evidence? Being vague is certainly not a way to sidestep libel laws...
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Re:Vaporware? Hoax? (Score:5, Funny)
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What do libel laws have to do with any of this? Or are you somehow trying to equate fraud with libel?
Re:Vaporware? Hoax? (Score:4, Informative)
Libel (Score:2)
Re:Vaporware? Hoax? (Score:5, Informative)
1: It's not true
2: A reasonable person wouldn't conclude that it is true.
3: A different reasonable person might believe that you're telling the truth.
4: Said person's disbelieve causes harm to the libelee.
Slander and Libel are pretty tough things, but like Assault, they require a common sense test. (Accidentally bumping into someone on a crowded street is not Assault, even if they scream their head off.)
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We've seen here on slashdot how lawyers can deprive you of liberty and property if you speak ill of them or their wealthy clients.
Criticizing even an obvious scam : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who's_Who_scam [wikipedia.org] : can get you into serious trouble in this country.
It's in the wording too. (Score:4, Informative)
Conjecture is a different matter: eg. saying "If it is vaporware and they are accepting money then they are commiting faud". Those "if"s make a big difference.
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Will it exist in 30 days (Score:5, Insightful)
Only if they can't create and deliver it within 30(?) days and don't contact the people who ordered it within that time, notifying them of the delay and refunding the money of those who don't consent to the extension.
Back in the early days of home computing a number of companies started up by selling vaporware, collecting the money, and using it to fund the development. (I don't recall if Apple was one of the companies that started up that way. But Woz and Jobs were pretty hard up for cash back at the start.)
The FTC tightened up after some con men calling themselves "World Memory Systems" took a picture of a few chips sitting on an unstuffed PC board, ran an ad claiming it was a new peripheral board providing four serial and one parallel port for Altair/Imsai home computers (with a name, 4S+P, similar to another popular product, 4P+S), and pulled a major fraud.
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-G
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Re:Will it exist in 30 days (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0973864907/ref=pd_bbs_olp_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208554130&sr=8-2 [amazon.com]
Re:Will it exist in 30 days (Score:5, Interesting)
SoftRAM [wikipedia.org] is a good story. They sold 600,000 copies of a program that they claimed would compress the contents of RAM, effectively doubling the available amount. It turned out that the program didn't even attempt it.
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Re:Will it exist in 30 days (Score:5, Informative)
I do remember the Altair add-on scam... that was pretty funny.
Re:Will it exist in 30 days (Score:5, Informative)
You can read about it here:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/wps/ [brouhaha.com]
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Re:Will it exist in 30 days (Score:5, Interesting)
The false "DOS was vaporware" version of what happened often gets modded up on Slashdot. This is the version told on that stupid made-for-TV, "based on a true story" docudrama Pirates of the Silicon Valley [imdb.com]. A much better telling of what actually happened (with actual interviews with Paul Allen, Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, Jack Sams of IBM, and Tim Patterson of SCP) is available from the PBS documentary Triumph of the Nerds [pbs.org] (transcript of the relevant part available here [pbs.org]).
Re:Will it exist in 30 days (Score:4, Interesting)
Back in the early days of home computing a number of companies started up by selling vaporware, collecting the money, and using it to fund the development. (I don't recall if Apple was one of the companies that started up that way. But Woz and Jobs were pretty hard up for cash back at the start.)
The Woz [woz.org] already had a working Apple before offering one for sale. He was showing it to meetings of the Homebrew Computer Club [wikipedia.org], of which the Two Steves were members of. At the tyme the Woz was working for HP as an engineer [hbs.edu] and asked them if the company wanted to make the Apple, management turned him down. Jobs was able to find a store that would place a large order but in order to fulfill it the Woz had to quit working at HP. In order to fund the company the Woz sold an HP 65 calculator he owned for $500.
FalconThe OpenPro (Score:4, Interesting)
So I think that was just a stunt. The real bargain on the site is the openPro which has a bigger power supply and better case permitting it to hold a high end graphics card and quad processor. A nicely specced unit of the openPro would be $1800 for quad 2.6Ghz and an nvidia 8800Gt card, including shipping, Leopard (firewire built in, and USB jacks on the front). This is actually now compartable to the apple powermac quad, which simmilarly speced runs about $2700, with a 10% faster CPU, blue tooth, wireliess, optical audio, and an amazing case design, and relatively quiet operation.
However to be fair, the apple's sweet spot for powermac pricing is at the 8 processor model. That's "only" $500 more. The psystar is not available in an 8 processor.
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been here before (Score:2)
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No, it's not ok. But I'm certainly not going to be offering any sympathy to anyone who was stupid enough to pay for one.
If a stranger came up to you in the street and offered you a seemingly great deal on a new product, asked for your credit card details and promised to drop it round next week, would you give them to him?
If you would, I have a great product that you are going to love. Just post your credit card details here - I'll keep them secure - and I'l
Re:been here before (Score:5, Insightful)
There's nothing wrong with criticizing the good sense of people who fall prey to a scam, but I find it difficult to come up with a non-contrived situation where the poor judgement, ignorance, or even stupidity, of someone who falls prey to fraud or a scam is sufficiently damnable as to justify the crime committed by the fraudster/scammer. How can you have no sympathy for an unjustified crime?
It seems to me either they deserved what happened and deserve no sympathy, or they don't deserve what happened and thus deserve at least some sympathy.
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How about those people that fall for the "Nigerian" scams? It is their own "poor judgement, ignorance, or even stupidity" that cost them as well as their greed.
I dont have pitty for these people, do you?
Yes, I do have sympathy (sympathy is the term being used in this thread, not pity) for them.
Sure, you and I know about these scams, but many people don't know about them, or how to tell the difference between something fake and something legit.
The only way I'd have no sympathy would be if they *knew* about these scams and still fell for them, or if they were trying to scam the scammer, and failed.
Re:been here before (Score:5, Funny)
Easy. They're not his millions. They're yours
Comoany was located in Nigeria? (Score:3, Funny)
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Hoax? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hoax? (Score:5, Informative)
It is both a scam and a hoax.
Re:Hoax? (Score:5, Funny)
It is both a scam and a hoax.
Re:Hoax? (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.pinksheets.com/pink/quote/quote.jsp?symbol=SCOXQ#getQuote [pinksheets.com]
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You just won the Spanish Lottery! (Score:5, Informative)
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What happened, did all the staff show up to the new address only for the current folk there to say "What are you doing here? Never heard of you."
Re:You just won the Spanish Lottery! (Score:5, Funny)
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It's All An Apple Plot (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as paying by credit card goes, you're likely protected by your card company against fraud so you shouldn't be too concerned there.
Re:It's All An Apple Plot (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple couldn't have hoped for a better fumbling of the "Attack of the Clones". It's as if Lucas himself directed this train wreck.
I bet Apple and their lawyers are in their humidors sipping cognac, laughing at these amateurs.
Re:It's All An Apple Plot (Score:4, Funny)
I bet Apple and their lawyers are in their humidors sipping cognac, laughing at these amateurs.
Assuming you mean Steve Jobs when you say "Apple", I find it highly unlikely that Steve Jobs has a humidor, much less a humidor large enough to sit in--smoking's bad, mmkay? More likely, he would celebrate with mineral water and extra-dark chocolate (you see, the higher the cacao content, the snobbier you can act, never mind that it tastes like dirt), or maybe a joint rolled in Psystar's business registration paperwork--his company *is* headquartered in San Francisco, after all.
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credit cards (Score:2)
As far as paying by credit card goes, you're likely protected by your card company against fraud so you shouldn't be too concerned there.
Legally someone using their credit card is liable for $50, but the credit card issuer may cut some slack and swallow all of charge.
FalconRe: (Score:3, Insightful)
Generally speaking, if you attempt to purchase something, and the vendor does not follow through, you can go back to the credit card company and ask them to reverse the charges. The vendor ends up not only not getting paid, but a penalty is applied as well - both in immediate money and in the percentage that the credit card company charges the vendor to be able to use their service.
This often works even if you do get what you purchased, but it just plain doesn't work, as was evidenced when my neighbour bo
Proof again... (Score:3, Insightful)
Amazed that ANYONE actually signed up for this thing before anyone credible had reported that it was real and worked as expected. This is one of those cases where the early sucker...I mean adopter leads the way with their pocket book and loses everything.
The real interesting question here is how much did they get away with before they were busted?
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Who would have ordered one so quickly? (Score:5, Insightful)
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You see, there's this lucrative spam business, that survives only because of this same kind of people.
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I mean at least wait a couple months for Tom's Hardware to review one or something.
How many non geeks, non nerds, non /.ers know to let Tom check it out?
FalconRe:Who would have ordered one so quickly? (Score:4, Funny)
P-P-P-Powerbook! (Score:3, Informative)
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If you're a golfer, you need a set of clubs and funny patterned pants. You don't need a computer of any description.
Where's the box (Score:2)
That what it will all boils down to, when people get their computer (7 days from purchase, so should be seeing post about them next week). Or do a hand-on review (I saw a few pages called a review on the OpenPC where they were just reviewing their opinions.
Until there is something more than phone calls and photoshopped corporate website images - a lot of this is just empty speculation.
Look at it this way ... (Score:5, Funny)
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Well, they *would* know...oh wait, my bad (Score:3, Funny)
For a moment, I read that as Gizmondo [wikipedia.org] and thought to myself "Well, if anyone would know about hoaxes..."
think people (Score:3, Insightful)
They (or you even) can't legally install OSX either can they? Not an Apple guy so dont know terms but i would assume not.
I suppose in theory one could reverse engineer a clone but it is kinda spendy for a doorstop with no OS. Even then there would be no legit uses and you still couldn't sell them since it is clearly intended to infringe.
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They (or you even) can't legally install OSX either can they? Not an Apple guy so dont know terms but i would assume not.
No. OS X can't, legally, be installed on a non Apple computer.
FalconRe:think people (Score:4, Informative)
Ok, wrong. Apple reserves all rights under copyright, that are not expressly granted by the software license.
The license is very specific, and in its very first specific clause:
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time.
You either agree to this license, or you have no right to install the software. Ok, you can put an "Apple" label on your computer. Then you're in worse trouble with a trademark infringement
This is not some nebulous "shrink wrap license are not enforceable" concern. If *any* license that is granted as a result of copyright is valid (hint, GPL, creative commons, SCSL), then this one is.
Re:think people (Score:5, Informative)
Bullshit. You bought it - you have the right to install it. I have old books that say you're not allowed to resell them, but that's BS too.
Not if you put them on your own computer, you're not. Trademark only kicks in when you're trying to pass something off as something else. There's an Apple sticker on my wife's minivan, but we're clearly not infringing anything.
Does Steve Jobs tuck you in at night or something? No. You're flat-out wrong. That is exactly one of those dumb EULA concerns, especially when you're trying to mingle it with copyright. As you bought the software, you have the legal right to use it so long as you're not installing it on a bunch of machines or distributing copies. It's kind of sad and scary that presumably rational people will try to argue otherwise.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but please tell me how that works out when you try to call Apple for support ;-)
(I anxiously await the updates on groklaw about the lawsuit you file ;-) )
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That's not the copy of OSX you can buy at the store. Trying to pass it off as a legal copy of Leopard is fraud. Do anything you want with *your own* copy of Leopard, but if you try to sell modified copies, Apple can and should sue.
I think I morally disagree with that, regardless of its legality (which I don't know about). As far as I know, I can buy a book, edit that physical copy, and resell it. I believe that you should be allowed to do the same with software, so long as you're clearing labeling it as a modified version and you pay for every copy you pass along.
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Of course you can. Silly unenforcable EULA stuff aside, once you buy a copy, it's your copy. So long as you don't make unauthorized copies of it (which does not include the copy you install on a single machine, because that's what your store receipt says that you paid for), you can do whatever you want.
It's not a hoax (Score:5, Funny)
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If it's a hoax.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Jobs can run but he can't hide (Score:3, Insightful)
Psystar. PsyOps. Nothing but Jobs looking to drum up more support for sales and mindshare. Mindshare is probably more important for Apple lest they lose their niche cult status and drop out of sight completely.
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The off-the-shelf copies are all upgrades. Apple has been clear about that all along. There was never a copy of 10.4 for Intel Macs sold retail because every single Intel Mac came with a copy of 10.4 (so you never needed an upgarade disk).
The off-the-shelf copies are not upgrades, they are the actual general use copies for the entire supported hardware matrix. The copies included with your hardware purchase are unique to that machine model.
If you have prior Macs you buy the Off-the-Shelf copy so it will install and work as billed.
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Yeah, because if they don't do something quick, everyone's going to forget Apple ever even existed!
Why, just the other day, I stopped, um, every single person I saw, and asked them who made that MP3 player they were carrying, and they were all, "I dunno; some company... There's a mark here on the back... What is that? A screaming head with a flame on top? Oh yeah, 'Burning Screaming Head.' That's who made it."
Steve Jobs, if you're reading this: Get out now before the whole thing caves in on you! D
It is not a Mac, its a Hackintosh (Score:3, Informative)
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Is steve woz behind this? He is the one who wanted (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it some who is pissed off at the high priced mini with it's laptop parts and apples lack of DESKTOP with DESKTOP parts in the $500-$2000 price range the mac pro starts at $2200.
More like an inept business owner than a hoax (Score:4, Insightful)
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I know arguing about EULAs is a favourite pastime on
It's art. (Score:2)
Pystar was discovered to be the performance art of a Yale art student. She said that she wasn't really going to load it with Mac OS but rather just say she was going to. First she needs to not get pregnant several times and then get pregnant and put some kind of not real blood on the cases.
It's not a Hoax nor a Scam. It's art. And the artist said that if Paypal or the Credit card services takes the site down to say that this is not legitimate she will say that is.
It's all for art.
Not selling anymore? (Score:2, Informative)
My guess... (Score:3, Interesting)
After all, these are simply custom built PCs constructed from parts you can buy anywhere. All PsyStar has to do is provide an assembled system and some evidence that the system is somehow capable of running MacOS X, without having to actually deliver a pre-installed setup ready to run out of the box.
Sure, it'd be a low blow to the customer, but it'd probably be technically enough to keep someone out of prison.
So Far... (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay, the company is currently doing some things that look suspicious to a highly jaded crowd, but actually make a lot of sense for someone who's been swamped with genuine interest. So we just wait and see how things settle down.
And we haven't seen or heard ANYTHING from Apple. It's been more than a few days, and Apple is not known for sitting on their laurels when it comes to such things. If this were illegal or fishy, Apple would be all over them like white on rice and crowing from the rooftops about it.
So far, zip from Apple.
Here's an idea? How about we let these folks SETTLE IN for a bit and see how things turn out before we start writing their obituary?
They're using credit cards for transactions, AND they're using PayPal on top of it. It's not like your money will vaporize without a trace, folks? There's a reason Nigerian and other scammers want you to use money orders and Western Union.
You say "Hoax" (Score:5, Funny)
Let's call the whole thing off.
Re:You say "Hoax" (Score:4, Funny)
I'm working on that but I gotta go get my blinker fluid changed. On that note, does anyone know if $800/ounce is a reasonable price for blinker fluid? My dealer says this is a good deal but he's the same guy who wanted $400 for muffler bearings (I was able to get an independent shop to do them for just $200 - HA!).
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Re:Not really.... (Score:5, Funny)
--Q
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Re:Not a hoax, just a stupid kid (Score:5, Funny)
His mom found out.
DUDE You're getting a (knockoff) dell.
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>4. Vanish.
5. Become the target of a fraud investigation by several credit card companies,
you know, the ones who have litigation budgets in the tens of millions of dollars.
6. Write letters from prison.
Re:If it's too good to be true, then it probably i (Score:2)