Mouse or Trackball? 627
Loconut1389 writes "I've been an avid mouse user for years, but lately all of the wrist movements have added up and combined with a desire for some added precision when not using my tablet in photoshop, I decided to purchase a large trackball. Logitech makes a few with a small, thumb controlled ball, but it looked like you'd get a tired thumb and have no added precision. After searching around, it seems that the only large one really available is a Kensington for about $90. Only CompUSA seemed to even carry the kensington in-store (and had none in stock). After ordering one online and using it for a few days now, I don't know how I ever lived with a mouse. The trackball has better precision, less wrist movement, and even gaming is pretty cool/easy with it (can spin it to whip around real quick, etc). All that said, it seems like trackballs have all but vanished except in medical fields (sonograms, etc) and perhaps graphic arts. I'm left insanely curious why trackballs haven't resurfaced now that optical technologies have fixed the main problems of old trackballs (and mice). Do you use a trackball? If so, are you in graphic design?"
Trackball (Score:5, Informative)
For a traditional mouse, Apple's Mighty Mouse is pretty good, but it simply does not have the robust reliability that the Kensington track balls have. For most of the Kensington trackball's history, they used high quality bearings which were nice and robust, but dirt could get trapped in between stalling the cursor movement. Recently with the Expert Mouse however, they have gone to a glass/plastic? bearing with an optical tracking mechanism that is far superior to just about anything else on the market.
It is interesting that the trackball has quite a long history. I first saw them, other than Missile Command
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Or what?
After experiencing both sides of the fence, using a mouse is far more intuitive and precise for many activities on a PC.
That may be true for you, but from my experience in navigating image data comprising many gigabytes to terrabytes, having a trackball with a zoom ring on it like the Kensington Expert Mouse is the fastest means of navigating that I have found though I actually use a combination of trackball and Wacom drawing tablet for any work that requir
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Re:optical mice have their own issues. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:optical mice have their own issues. (Score:5, Funny)
-Lasse
Outta my yard (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Outta my yard (Score:4, Informative)
There were very few mouse pads that were actually good for your mouse, and often times you were better off using a flat, smooth, clean surface of your desk.
I think it was 3M that made a mouse pad that was paper thin, had one of those "tacky but not sticky" backs and a very finely textured surface that was perfect for use with a traditional "ball mouse" and the printed pattern even made it suitable for use with an optical mouse... too bad they didn't catch on with more people...
Re:Trackball (Score:5, Informative)
There are good points and bad points.
Good:
It has always been as accurate as the best mouse, even before mice went optical.
The cord never ever gets in the way of your movement, because it doesn't move.
Doesn't require desk space. My screen is flush with my desk, my keyboard sitting snugly on an open desk drawer.
Bad:
You can't hope to achieve smooth 360+ degree rotation on an fps. You have to move your thumb at some point.
But the main advantage, and the reason why I will never go back to using a normal mouse is that I can place a trackball anywhere. Before I started this note I was reclined all the way back in my chair with my trackball on my chest navigating slashdot in complete comfort. I tend to use it on my knee alot too.
Also another advantage is no one wants to use it. So no one is using my damned computer when I'm not around. Also the ball is perfect for flinging at your coworker.
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The big trackballs don't seem to do it for me. By far my most favorite trackball is the basic Logitech Trackman [logitech.com]. I've been using it for several years, switching over and trying different trackballs, but I always go back to this one. Your hand is resting comfortably, the ball is perfectly positioned and I have yet to run into a situation where my thumb would be tired - dunno, maybe it's the gamer in me.
As for precision, it's pretty good. I do game with it, some counterstrike, but mostly WoW pvp. What I do f
Also Trackball (Score:2)
Trackball here, too, though my pick is the Logitech Optical TrackMan (I think; don't remember the actual name for certain). I love being able to use it without any significant flat surface with my laptop.
What I really don't understand, though, is why oh why does nobody make a good Bluetooth trackball?? Every cordless trackball out there (except for one, called The Ball, but I need many buttons, not just 2 & no scroll wheel...) uses an RF transmitter that plugs in by USB. I would have thought tha
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Call me crazy, but don't many cell phones allow for Bluetooth headsets? T'would seem to be real-time enough...
Trackball = more tendonitis for me (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been using a mouse for computer work, with a fair amount of gaming for 13 years now with no problems.
I suspect that there will be a subset of the population that does better with trackball devices, but the market has shown which device people prefer - the mouse.
"I'm left-handed, you ignorant clod!" (Score:3, Interesting)
Using a right-handed trackball is like using right-handed scissors - awkward as all hell.
I bought a keyboard with a built-in trackball. It was nice for 15 minutes - then I gave it away because its useless!
Instead, I have 2 mice plugged into the computer - one on each side of the keyboard. I grab whichever one is convenient (dual monitors, etc). I'm thinking that for my triple-monitor setup at home I should configure X so that each monitor has a captive mouse - having to go all the way from the left sid
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Now I'm using a Logitech Cordless TrackMan Optical [logitech.com], and I've be
Trackball (Score:2)
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Re:Trackball (Score:5, Funny)
My wife own all of my balls already, you insensitive clod!
Avoid wrist movements (Score:5, Informative)
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Avoid arm movements (Score:2)
Most of those with pain opt for a vertical t [animax.no]
both! (Score:2, Insightful)
Trackpad killed the trackball. (Score:2)
Trackball or Spaceball? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Trackball or Spaceball? (Score:5, Funny)
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I have an MS Trackball Explorer, but also a Spaceball 4000 FLX to help out with UG.
Trackpoint? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:5, Funny)
I prefer to call it the Computer Clit(TM).
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:5, Funny)
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I prefer to call it the Computer Clit(TM).
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:5, Funny)
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These regularly show up on ebay, just watch out you don't get a later model without the clicky keys (unless you prefer a membrane keyboard.)
Highly recommended - it's nice not to have to move my hands from the keyboard.
-Isaac
Re:Trackpoint? (Score:4, Interesting)
There is actually a company that licensed the design from IBM and makes them - with and without Windows Keys (none for me thanks), and standard IBM click - or - mushy, crappy, gonna fail in a few years membrane. Havent tried them, but people claim they (the clicky ones) are as durable and well designed as the Mfg'd by Lexmark IBM Model M's (which is to say, slightly less durable, but still damn near indestructible). ( http://pckeyboard.com/ [pckeyboard.com] ) On a funny but very entirely true story (stories actually), I actually put that indestructible-ness to the test.
Back in 86 I worked for Valcom Computer (prolly never heard of them unless you were big into buying IBM's in the mid 80's). People would come in and ask "Why is the IBM keyboard $100 and the others $10-40?" So, I'd unplug an IBM from one of our computers, put it on the floor (tossing it tends to pop the overcaps on the keys), and then proceed to step on it, bounce up and down on it, etc... pick it back up and ask "If this was your cheap little $40 keyboard, would you want to plug it back in now and hope you didnt fry your keyboard controller or at the very least hope it still worked?" - then plug the beast back in and load the keyboard test and hit every key.
A number of years later, at a different job, after doing something similar with coworkers, we decided to see just how indestructible they were... so, after (obviously) passing the stop on it test, we took it out back and parked an Isuzu Trooper on it... then hit the gas... they keyboard went flying across the asphalt about 30 feet... was scuffed on the bottom, and of course worked fine. By that time, we were getting kinda desparate in our attempts to destroy it under something that resembled normal use, and were standing in the front of the stoor - where we saw a city bus stop at the corner (our storefront was 2 doors down from the light)... we ran out, put the Model M right in front of the big back wheels, and waited... the bus slowly crawled up (like people tend to do while waiting for a light) which put the wheel right on top of the keyboard. Finally the light changed, the bus took off, we ran out, grabbed the keyboard, waved to the guy behind the bus who was watching us with a mixture of amusement and "I think they are crazy" look on his face, and plugged it in...
So, having passed that test (yes, of course it still worked - it was only a city bus)... we decided to go upstairs and launch it off the roof (3 story drop). We threw it as far outward as possible adding to the distance travelled considerably. The keyboard must have went in total 150 feet between it's downward drop of 3 stories and the distance we launched it horizontally.
The ancient Model M's casing cracked or split in a number of places, the keycaps flew everywhere, it looked horrendous - but STILL worked.
We took a blowtorch (propane pipe welding torch like what a plumber uses) and took that to the outer casing... the weird stuff they use kinda smoldered on the outside, turning brown and black, but didnt burn through. Looked more like a bad scare from a surface burn on a human (like a cigarette burn).
Finally, we "destroyed" it with a sledge hammer. Mostly though, the hammer just ended up crushing the round key holders that rise up from the inner plastic cover - and probably a few of the keyswitches.
Neat thing is it was still easily fixable since we could have just replaced the inner and upper cover and a few keyswitches and been done (for far cheaper than a new Model M)... but we had a couple dozen at the time, so it didnt really matter and we just kept it as a conversation piece. Somewhere I have shards of the outer casing still...
Years and years ago, I gave my mom one of them... (Model M) ancient one, metal IBM logo and all... she still uses it and refuses to give it up - begging, offering to buy it, whatever... doesnt work.
And me, I have 2 Model M-13s, and slowly acquiring more... and will keep them till they die (if I dont die of old age first)... my M/M13 keyboards have outlasted every computer I have had - and will continue to do so.
Trackpoints are evil (Score:2)
Later I learned that it wasn't so much the trackp
For a really big trackball... (Score:5, Informative)
Admittedly, they make them for the video gaming world, but they are just USB (or PS2) trackballs. You can mount them directly into a table top. Nothing like a 3" trackball to work from.
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Trackball: love and hate (Score:2)
I cannot understand how it gets dirty so quickly. There are a couple metal bearings inside to keep the optical ball spinning freely, and they are constantly getting gummed up with skin flakes and whatever else constitutes desk dust. If not for that, it would be perfect
Not too hard to find (Score:2)
I have a few coworkers who use them - maybe 3 people out of around 80. Which isn't too bad I don't think. I know that for myself, I've just never used a trackball much outside of missile command. (And on a visit to a radar installation on a mountain once as a kid) That was a nice big trackball, but not real practic
Logitech usb Marble Mouse (Score:2)
I use this one, I prefered to use my fingers instead of my thumb. $21
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=904360-040 3-DT&cat=MOU [geeks.com]
I got it because my wrists hurt with a mouse, since I got this a few years back, my wrists don't hurt anymore.
Don't know why they cost more, the parts are the same concept. Production scale I suppose.
Thumb trackballs are the way to go (Score:2)
My problem with small trackballs (Score:2)
My thumb isn't tired (Score:2)
It's not great for first-person shooters, and can't write my signature with it, but I can always get the mouse pointer to the pixel I want. YMMV
I only wish I could get it in B
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Logitech Trackman Wheel (Score:2)
Logitech Trackman Wheel (Score:2)
I swear by the Logitech Trackman Wheel, viewable here [logitech.com]. My wrist doesn't hurt like it did when I used a regular mouse.
They have a cordless version [logitech.com], but it's USB-based. If they made a Bluetooth version, it would be perfect.
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Trackball here (Score:2)
Been using this or the previous PS/2 version for probably 5-7 years or so now. Love 'em! Used to sometimes use the old Atari trackballs (the pool ball size giant clunky things) back in the mid 90s, but the gritting up was a problem.
User because I must (Score:2)
Trackball user (Score:2)
My preferred choice is a thumb-operated trackball. Your thumb does get tired initially, it's not used to being used that way. It's no worse than any change in pointing device, though, and in my case after a week I'd adapted and was more comfortable with the trackball than a mouse. I've never been comfortable with conventional trackballs with the ball under the fingers.
I originally swore by the Logitech Trackman Wheel, but then Logitech changed the design to make it too narrow for my fingers to be comfortab
Wacom (Score:2, Interesting)
About 5 years ago I started getting RSI in my wrist, and purchased a Wacom tablet. I'm now on my third, a widescreen one to match the set-up I have with 2 widescreen LCD monitors, and would never go back to using a mouse most of the time.
The ability to move the pad about to change the way you hold the pen is fantastic, and my wrist has been fine ever since. It takes a while to get used to the pad having an absolute relationship to the
Excercise (Score:4, Informative)
I like trackballs too. It's a mystery to me as well why they're not more widely available.
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Mod parent up! Curls, tricep extensions, and especially wrist curls completely eliminate my wrist and elbow pain. I'm sure everything else helps, but arm exercises undo the damage I do my joints each week.
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Don't look at precision (Score:2)
Take your mouse, and see if you can move it 1 pixel to the left. Ok, now see if you can move it 1 pixel down. If you managed both, then congratulations you have a working mouse ^_^
What one would want to consider is response time, how frequently random lag oc
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I do quite a bit of Photoshop work, and I've done more than my share of CAD stuff as well, using all sorts of mice and trackballs. I found it easy enough to get pixel precision with all of them.
You speak my mind on this issue. (Score:5, Interesting)
My Expert Mouse developed a minor nuisance, I forget what, and I asked Kensington about it. They sent me a new one as a replacement, free. Right there, we see the price difference between the Expert Mouse and cheap crap mice evaporate.
I hate mice. I love trackballs.
If you're doing a lot of graphics, you might also pick up a tablet.
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Mice don't slow me down necessarily. They're much faster for some things, much slower for others. A good interface ought to allow both, but random access really is faster than indexed access. You can't make a good keyboard-friendly Bejeweled, or a mouse-friendly shell.
MS can do something right (Score:3, Informative)
Logitech Marble (Score:2)
I never tried any real Graphics Art type stuff with it however... i've found it's easy enough to 'lock' the left-right movement of the ball by using the side of my middle finger on the side of the
Logitech Trackman Marble FX (Score:2)
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Microsoft makes a great trackball (Score:2)
I use it on my Powerbooks, and the FreeBSD server I run on the basement... I realize this is sacrelig, but the things kick ass.
Logitech Marble Mouse (Score:2)
I bought some extras to outfit the home systems.
Now that I've changed jobs, that marble mouse is still on my desk, working
Another trackballer here (Score:2)
i have a Logitech Marble Mouse from 1996 (Score:2)
I use both (Score:2)
I'd have trackballs for all my computers if I could afford it -- I got the trackball when I was having wrist problems, and while those have cleared up even with more mouse use again, I still much prefer the trackball (though it's not so good
Different strok--er, gestures (Score:2)
I don't think you could conclusively say that either one is "better" than the other; it's just a matter of personal preference. Some people like mice, some p
Wrist Problems.....? (Score:2)
Another thing that makes using a mouse much more comfortable is to move where it rests. To the right of the keyboard is the w
Honestly (Score:2)
Also, the thumb and pinky buttons should be wheels as well, at 45 degree angles probably.
Ergonomic "joystick" mice (Score:2)
Anir mouse [animax.no]
3M equivalent [3m.com]
Best keyboard I ever had... (Score:2)
But I do agree that trackballs are superior to mice, but I always end up using a mouse for some reason. Anything is better than a trackpad.
Microsoft trackball (Score:2)
Movement is controlled by the index and middle fingers, and the main buttons and wheel by the thumb. There are two more buttons for the ring and pinky fingers.
About once or twice a month I have to pop the ball out and move some irritating piece of lint off the sensor or the bearings, but every trackball I've ever seen has the same issue.
Trackman Marble FTW (Score:2)
Try one of these (Score:3, Interesting)
I started using a vertical mouse and its helped a lot.
I've had inflammation in my mouse arm for several years now.
Since I've started using this mouse my symptoms have started to subside.
I also take more breaks, do stretches, etc to help alleviate the symptoms.
The vertical mouse helps by keeping the arm from being twisted when using the mouse.
It does take some getting used to, but its worth the effort.
Also look closely at your work environment from an ergonomic point of view. Most IT professionals I've met don't pay any attention to the ergonomics of their work station, at work or at home. I didn't for years and I've now had bilateral carpal tunnel releases, repeated tendinitis and other problems related to poor ergonomics and repetitive stress issues. I'm only 39.
Whatever fits (Score:2)
No thanks.
[1] Yes, I use one. It's attached to the exercise machinery because there's no suitable surface for a mouse. It's also even harder to get
The Pen (Score:2)
Microsoft Trackball Optical (Score:2)
I use a Microsoft Trackball Optical on my Linux and OS X machines and absolutely love it. It was a little awkward for the first week or so, but now it's as seamless to me as a mouse ever was. No, my thumb doesn't get tired. Yes, my wrists feel better. They're apparently not everybody's cup of tea, but I absolutely love them.
A huge drawback to the palm-operated trackball the submitter seemed to be wanting is that you're always moving your fingers away from the action buttons. For example, clicking a m
foot mouse and other adaptive input devices (Score:2)
I like the pencil eraser looking thingy (Score:2)
I am odd that way.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. (Score:2)
Just a different RSI (Score:2)
Also, hand dirt and grime would build up on the ball and deposit itself on the roller mechanisms inside. I'd periodically have to pop the ball out and clean the insides. It's just an upside-down mechanical
Wacom Tablet? (Score:2)
Trackballs are imprecise at small movements, mice at smooth arcs and tablets allow you to do any shape in any dimension that your hand could normally do on your workspace.
My Mice (Score:2)
Same here (Score:2)
I use a trackball for coding (Score:2)
Giant Crayola Trackball (Score:5, Funny)
Once, when I first had wrist pain, I bought a giant Crayola trackball. It was 5-6" in diameter. Overall, it was very comfortable to use, but because it was designed for children, the buttons were on the top of the trackball instead of the bottom. Also, it required a serial port.
I ended up hooking it up to my Fraternity's jukebox computer. The drunks loved it.
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Re:Logitech's Marble F/X (Score:5, Informative)
In linux, though, I just have
InputDevice "LogitechMarble" "CorePointer"
and
# The following is for the Logitech Marble Trackball:
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "LogitechMarble"
Driver "mouse"
# Option "CorePointer"
Option "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "Buttons" "9"
# Option "SendCoreEvents" "true"
Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true"
Option "EmulateWheel" "1"
Option "EmulateWheelButton" "8"
Option "EmulateWheelInertia" "5"
Option "Emulate3Timeout" "50"
Option "ChordMiddle"
Option "XAxisMapping" "6 7"
Option "YAxisMapping" "4 5"
in my xorg.conf file. Works perfectly. Wish I could get the Windows behavior to be the same!
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