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New York Sues Dell for Poor Customer Service 295

Phanatic1a writes "New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo is suing Dell, alleging bait and switch financing tactics, false advertising, and 'numerous other deceptive business practices relating to their technical support services, promotional financing, rebate offers, and billing and collection activity.' According to Cuomo himself, 'At Dell, customer service means no service at all.'"
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New York Sues Dell for Poor Customer Service

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  • Dude (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:19PM (#19150657)
    Dude, you're getting a lawsuit.
  • State normally takes advantage of the Customer Service Support. Corporations usually have support as a last resort for the State it is normally in the middle.
    • by eln ( 21727 )
      Personally, I use Customer Service Support as a last resort because it's highly unlikely they'll come up with anything I couldn't have figured out for myself, and going through two hours with front-line support before getting to someone who actually has knowledge beyond the standard script is a huge hassle. This does not apply exclusively to Dell, though.

      Huge corporations who buy a lot of product from a vendor will often have an engineer or two (or more) assigned to them specifically. That person may even
      • Personally, I use Customer Service Support as a last resort because it's highly unlikely they'll come up with anything I couldn't have figured out for myself, and going through two hours with front-line support before getting to someone who actually has knowledge beyond the standard script is a huge hassle.
        No wonder they're getting sued.
      • I've run into many problems with my laptops from Dell. Each time I've diagnosed by myself and called into their tech support for a new part. They ask a few questions and send me a new HDD, optical drive, keyboard, power pack... Yeah. What's nice is they overnight the stuff to you. As long as you take charge of the conversation you should be able to get what you need. IE "No, I'm not going to run your Dell system utilities. I ran scandisk and I'm telling you the drive is dead." or "The F-ing 'B' fall
      • My usual issue is with hardware support. Some part craps out, and I call them for a replacement part, and have to go through so many hoops that it would have been cheaper to just buy a new computer for what they had to pay me to sit on the phone with some joker in India who is running through the "Choose Your Own Adventure" tech support binder, and not listening when I tell him what the problem is.

        I shouldn't have to spend hours coaxing a guy on the phone through his troubleshooting manual until he gets the
      • For smaller shops that have to go through the 800 number, calling them is usually a huge waste of time unless they have no one on staff who knows anything about computers.

        I have to deal with Dell on a regular basis. Not because I know jack about computers, but because I have to go through them to get parts under warranty (or worse, not under warranty and proprietary). Their crap is ALWAYS breaking. This year we're up to at least 4 monitors, 3 hard drives, some RAM, laptop battery, laptop motherboard, and
  • by capt.Hij ( 318203 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:23PM (#19150701) Homepage Journal
    I live in NY, and I am glad for the work that Eliot Spitzer has done. Now that Cuomo is the AG he is trying to make a name for himself the same way Spitzer did. Spitzer took on powerful interests within the state. Cuomo is taking the easy way out and going after out of state entities like colleges who have less than ethical relationships with loan organizations. Cuomo is a corrupt politician just trying to get his name out there. I fear that in the end his little adventures are going to go badly, and it will not reflect well on the state of NY.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    This cannot have anything to do woth Dell selling Linux preinstalled
  • I guess it's time to welcome our new plutocratic neonoble overlords.
  • by ChromeAeonium ( 1026952 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:27PM (#19150773)
    Like bragging about their customer support, but then when you do call them up, you get some foreign person with an accent you can't understand talking over a phone connection that makes him barely audible, that you can only speak to after being redirected for a few hours, and who will then tell you your hard drive needs replaced because there's something wrong with the fan in your power supply? That may not be illegal, but it would be nice if they changed that.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:27PM (#19150781)
    I kid you not, I just finished a gold support call to Dell for a server. They were prompt and courteous. They didn't know how to fix it offhand, but called me back quickly with the right information. The guy even spoke English, which was a very pleasant surprise.
    • Why should I have to pay for Gold support over a generic warranty? While the lawsuit seems to be largely about Dell and financial shenanigans (Billing for returned merchandise & opening accounts improperly), I rarely find "decent" support on the "user" line. While I have occasionally found someone who would shortcut the script based on what I told them. (Gee, it works if I remove the modem-pci-card, but not if I put it back in. and that's only because I put in a new hard drive with all the current su
      • I find that I spend the next hour verifying "who is the owner of this machine," "Where do they live," "Please give me enough identification to steal the owners identity please" so that the 5 minute diagnosis takes over an hour to resolve. For a $5 part. That still has to be sent back to Dell.

        Mmm... that sounds annoying enough that it might actually dissuade people from calling up altogether, don't you think?

        I usually don't even bother calling Dell support for clients with non-gold support. Buying new hardware at OverpricedShack (tm) is usually cheaper that the time it will take Dell to replace it.

        ...and this is a win-win for Dell; by cutting back on expensive customer support, they dissuade people from calling and save even more.

        Only if it starts seriously affecting the bottom line, or they get seriously hammered in court will Dell change this; and regardless of what they claim, there is always a large percentage of people who will buy almost exclusively on price and only change

    • by ad0gg ( 594412 )
      Dell's gold service is great. If you sound like you have a clue, they'll just overnight a replacement for the bad component with out having to jump through all the hoops(ie: is your computer plugged in?) I'm also sure all gold support is US based, unless they teach their indian support guys to talk in a midwestern accent.
    • Do not confuse Dell's server support with their desktop support. Servers make Dell money. Desktops make them well-known.

      I don't know how it works in other parts of the world, but here in the UK the routine is:

      1. Call Dell Technical Support.
      2. Give the service tag to the call handler (always sounds like an Indian accent, but ICBW).
      3. If the service tag refers to a desktop/laptop, regardless of the level of support, it goes to India and deal with the communication issues that so often seems to entail. S
  • Not so bad. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by milamber3 ( 173273 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:28PM (#19150787)
    I don't really know where the New York AG is coming up with the "no service at all" comment. While I'm not sure about their problems with promotional financing, rebate offers, and billing activity; when I am forced to interact with dell for customer support on work computers I have always had good experiences. Maybe it is because I can fix most software issues and the only time I really go to them is when something fails. They have replace what's broken quite readily. Even if his problem is with their other practices I think he's over stating the support problems. Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not a fan of dell but I don't like them because of the proprietary hardware and the preloaded bloatware.
    • by zenyu ( 248067 )
      Even for hardware I wouldn't call them good.

      I bought a Dell 2405FPW monitor early on in the production run and it had this nasty habbit of making a high pitched noise and shutting off about four hours after it was turned on in the morning. So I did some googling and found out that this was caused by overheating. So I did what any geek would do and placed a fan so as to cool the beasty this gave me a good 10 hour run before it would shut itself off. But the problem was fixed in revision 3 of the hardware and
    • The operative words in your post are "on work computers." Dell service varies widely depending on what division you got your PC from. I've had experience both with their education division and their home division. Home is absolutely rotten, with long hold times and people who do not speak English. Education is fairly decent, so far as that goes--if someone knew about computers, he wouldn't be working at Dell tech support.
  • In light of how their sales are dropping, I would guess that the last CEO was trying to push his money up by making loads of short-term thinking changes (moving customer service to india, moving production to China, etc), and now the company reaping what he sowed. The funny thing is that I would not blame the last CEO but the shareholders who helped to push this. They had a job to look out for their long-term holdings and did not care.
  • You know, I've despised Dell for years but I have to give some credit to them for not wanting to support certain (l)users. E.g. Customer buys a Dell loaded with Crapafee Virus scanner... Crapafee acts up... (l)User calls Dell. Another example... (l)User craps out their machine with infestations of malware and junkware... (l)User calls Dell bitching and moaning... My analogy on it all... "You buy a Honda. Then go out and buy a Harmon Kardon radio system for it... Radio acts up..." Why in the world would you
    • Re:Yawn yawn (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:48PM (#19151119)
      If you buy a machine from dell, and it comes pre-loaded with software. When that software acts up, dell should be responsible. If dell doesn't want to take responsibility, then don't install 3rd party software.

      When I purchased my car (a honda actually), I had the dealership install an after market remote starter. When I had trouble, guess who I brought it to. Guess who fixed it ? The dealership.

      Now, had I bought it from Best Buy I would have brought it back to Best Buy.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by cerberusss ( 660701 )
        If you buy a machine from dell, and it comes pre-loaded with software

        I don't understand the fuss with the preinstalled crap. You buy the machine, boot it, menu -> Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs. Install Firefox, remove the IE icon.
  • by kmhebert ( 586931 ) <kev&kevinhebert,com> on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:30PM (#19150837) Homepage
    Is a loan sharking operation which will charge you 29.99% APR. I quickly transferred my balances and will never use that service again.
    • Whatever.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by tacokill ( 531275 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @07:12PM (#19153203)
      Look, you may not like the 29.9% rate --- but it is 100% legal and 100% voluntary. The rates that credit cards (of all kinds) charge you are very very high and you certainly have the right NOT to use them. If you didn't read the fine print, that is 100% your problem. Not Dell's.

      My question to you is this: why in the fuck are you buying a depreciating consumer item when you do not have the money to afford it?

      I really, truly, do not understand some people's financial decisions. Leasing cars, paying ridiculously high APR's....and then wondering why, after all these years of hard work, they are poor.
  • Apathy... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tyger ( 126248 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:32PM (#19150881)
    Apathy []
    If we don't take care of the customers, maybe they will stop bugging us.
  • Why single Dell out? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mi ( 197448 ) <> on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:38PM (#19150963) Homepage Journal

    Had the misfortune to call Linksys recently too. An entire Saturday wasted going through the first-layer support morons, who were just reading the scripts from their screens. Some of them — reading so slowly, I could not help thinking, they are on drugs. Others — lying that the supervisor is "on a meeting"...

    Finally, someone had brains enough to realize, the problem is above his level and transfered me to the second level support person, who quickly understood, what I was saying all along, and proceeded to tell me, how to cold-reset the wonder Linux-router, which promptly fixed the problem — 6 hours after the first phone call to Linksys...

    Don't know, if any amount of legal prosecution can help against this sort of moronity.

    The main legal beef of this prosecution, I guess, are the (alleged) financing/collection irregularities — a heavily legislated and regulated area. The populist "no service at all" rhethorics are just thrown in to help Mr. Guomo repeat Mr. Spitzer's feat later on...

    • by 0racle ( 667029 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @05:01PM (#19151327)

      how to cold-reset the wonder Linux-router, which promptly fixed the problem -- 6 hours after the first phone call to Linksys
      Please tell me you don't mean pressing that recessed button at the back of it.
    • by Detritus ( 11846 )
      Dell's version of guaranteed on-site service is a fraud. Dell should not be asking consumers to disassemble their computers and remove or replace parts. What's next, GM handles a recall by mailing new parts to their vehicle owners, along with a video tape "Brake Jobs for Dummies"?
  • by N3WBI3 ( 595976 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:38PM (#19150965) Homepage
    A state should not be in the business of suing companies for bad customer service! People should go and by Apple, or HP, or lenovo. But leave it to NY or MA or CA to go and get the state involved where it has no place. I notice that Andrew Cuomo is failing upwards..
  • If you want to sue someone for terrible customer service practices, I can add a few more necks to the gallows.

    How about...

    COMCAST - Customer service is non-existent. Advertised cable-internet speeds are excessively exaggerated. Bills constantly increase, yet service level goes down. They even have the balls to ADVERTISE on their own guide system. If they're making advertising money by putting ads on my screen while I'm browsing channels, that should be money OFF my bill, not added to it.

    • Comcast has by far the weakest service. The famous routine of requesting that you "unplug your modem" and it will magically repair itself after you replug it back in 5 minutes later. The most useless piece of garbage support.
    • oh course predatory lenders have less complex contracts, their simple ones.

      "You pay 150% per day or I send the boys round to break both your legs"

      I agree with your point tho, I remember when Mobile phones were just arriving in the UK and you would get 9 month contracts, now a phone company wants a year atleast and tries for 18 months if they can get it.

      I'm not sure how it works in USA but in the UK I find the magic words "I'm taking you to the small claims court" works wonders, that will generally open door
  • by iamacat ( 583406 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:42PM (#19151005)
    Allow groups of consumers to sponsor a visa for an IT guy from Banglore to fly over, service 100 or so computers and then fly back home with earnings that are attractive by his local living standards. A round trip ticket is only like $800 or $8/person for a flight reserved well in advance. If big companies are allowed to outsource labor abroad, it's only fair that individuals are allowed to do the same thing to address their personal needs rather than paying a premium to Dell to cover US-based salary of its executives.
  • by N3WBI3 ( 595976 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:43PM (#19151033) Homepage
    Who the hell are they to sue anyone for bad service. Get me through the DMV is less than an hour and maybe then you can talk!
  • I agree just last year their support was horrible. Offshore support was less than helpful and made me more frustrated after calling. But recently at work I had to have a few machines repaired and you know what their support is back to the old Dell I know, the people I dealt with seemed to be American, helpful fast and gets the issue resolved. Whereas HP now has offshoring and calling them is an exercise in frustration, and at times the calls must have been routed through a string and a tin can, static, unab
  • I bought my Compaq notebook six months ago and it's about to go in for the fourth time. Last time it took weeks because they sent it back signature required and they would only attempt delivery when I was not home.
    • Last time I used HPaq, their business support was still outsourced. With Dell, business phone support seems to be North American in origin.
  • by drhamad ( 868567 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @04:51PM (#19151159)
    It's really about bait & switch tactics in their finance arm, attracting people with 0% offers then denying even those with good credit, making them pay 20% or more finance fees. "The lawsuit accuses Dell of luring consumers to purchase its products with advertisements that offered attractive "no interest" and/or "no payment" financing promotions. In practice, however, the vast majority of consumers, even those with very good credit scores, were denied these deals. In a classic "bait and switch" scheme, DFS instead offered consumers financing at high interest rates, which often exceed 20%. Dell and DFS frequently failed to clearly inform these consumers that they had not qualified for the promotional terms, leaving many to unwittingly finance their purchase at high interest rates." THAT is what it is really about. The rest is just to throw on a little more on top, to scare Dell, and more importantly to make the public support it.
    • It's really about bait & switch tactics in their finance arm, attracting people with 0% offers then denying even those with good credit, making them pay 20% or more finance fees.
      Kudos to them and I hope they win.

      But now let's go after other such practices like Rent-To-Own and Rent-A-Center.

  • Dell service sucks, no doubt. But what about HP service? How about Sony's telephone support? Just trying to get things fixed that are broken with these others is as bad or worse.

    If someone thinks that customer service is bad with Dell, they are going to think it is universally bad and all computer makers need to be sued. Sadly, not very realistic.
  • Is it that the laws are different there? Or maybe NY is the only one that gets decent press?

    Lack of service or double-evil financing practices can be assumed with most big businesses. Dell isn't even the tip of an iceberg, it's an ice cube from the tip of an iceberg.

    I'd really like to hear some opinions as to why other states aren't doing the same.
    • exactly.

      i'm not going to nominate Dell for saint hood, but there are far worse companies out there.
  • On-line chat (Score:2, Insightful)

    by icthus13 ( 972796 )
    Always, always, always use the online real time chat for Dell tech support. The waits are shorter and it does a lot to reduce the language barrier.
    • Online chat doesn't work for hardware defects. They'll tell you to call support.

      (or at least that's the case in the two times I've tried it)

  • I always found that getting support from Dell meant spending literally hours battling their phone system, mostly on hold, and escalating beyond script readers to problem solvers, to get maybe 20 minutes of actual support. So I rarely use it. Plus, I had a couple of recalled power bricks for which that I completed their process for replacing, then never heard from them.

    However, I recommend to the many people who ask me to help them buy/upgrade their PCs that they just call Dell. Because those people mostly n
  • by hexed_2050 ( 841538 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @05:16PM (#19151533)
    Recently I had a problem with my printer and it took 27 calls over 3 days and about 16 hours of waiting on the phone and talking to Indian after Indian whom couldn't answer my problem. My problem isn't with Indians as I have many of them as friends and Indians are very smart people. My problem is with Dell outsourcing to India and giving them no power to correct even the smallest of issues. Basically if it's not on their troubleshooting sheet they have in front of them chalked up with canned questions/answers, then you are SOL.

    When are companies going to understand that they may get a first time buyer with their cut-rate prices. But if that buyer ever has a problem with the hardware and receives cut-rate support, they are not going to buy from the same company again.

    Just one reason I buy HP.

  • 1. Look cool.
    2. Be healthy.
    3. Do not buy small items that will not last more than three years with credit.

    If you really need to finance $800, perhaps you should not be buying it. As far as I am concerned, Dell provides cheap hardware that performs relatively well for its price. What they do with their financing is really not that bad considering that private banks charge through the roof for college loans.
  • He should look in his own back yard at all the shady electronics/camera merchants in Brooklyn. Fix you own problems first.

    FWIW, I paid for business level support on my laptop, and with very few exceptions have had nothing but quick response from fairly knowledgable reps.
  • OK, I saw the bit on the news. The woman had paid for "in-home" support (300 bucks I think) and they would not come out. Maybe I'm crazy, but "in-home" is pretty clear. It means I call, they come. If dell can't do this for 300, then they should not have offerred it. When I bought a big-screen, I got "in-home" support (500/5 years with yearly cleaning & adjustment including). When the TV died, I called, they came a day later, not 3 freakin months later as was the case for this poor woman. The woman was n
  • Service Level (Score:5, Informative)

    by lamarguy91 ( 1101967 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @05:31PM (#19151781)
    I'm not sure how many of the /. crowd are familiar with the concept of service level, so I figured I'd pass this along:

    For any company that is worth a flip, they measure a statistic called service level. When you call a customer service number for a company, all of the calls are tracked on their telephony switches. I'm sure everyone is familiar with having to wait on hold to talk to someone. The actual metric of service level is "the target of answering X percent of calls in X seconds or less". So to measure this, if Company A has a service level goal of 80% answered in 45 seconds, and by chance they answered all of their calls for the day in 45 seconds or less, they have achieved 100% for the day. (This would technically be cost inefficient because they had too many people answering the phones, but I'll save that for another day). In this example, the company wants to end up at an 80% achievement for the day. They hit 100%, so they overserviced. Good for the customer, bad for the company's budget.

    Depending on the industry, service level targets range anywhere from 80%/45 seconds for credit cards, home/cell phones, etc. Industries like sales, product activations, etc. have a much higher percentage, such as 90%/20 seconds... If the user is trying to buy something, a long wait time makes the customer impatient and they'll hang up resulting in a lost sale opportunity. For industries like computer tech support, the service levels are much, much different. A call for a computer user is going to be much longer than someone who calls their credit card company to complain about an over-the-limit fee. For tech support type calls, the service level will usually be something in the neighborhood of 70%/240 seconds.

    You may be wondering how this relates to the Dell story? Last bit of information I received (approx. a month ago), Dell's computer tech support service level was 60%/20 MINUTES. Yes, that is minutes, not seconds. This means that if they answer 60% of their tech calls in 20 minutes or less, they feel they are providing a proper service to their customer.

    I'm not surprised in the slightest to see this lawsuit. I'm actually surprised to see that is has taken this long.
  • by chromozone ( 847904 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @05:34PM (#19151839)
    I had a terrible time with Dell - but I think it was because they were poorly managed and not because they intentionally set out to be underhanded. I bought a highly rated and well reviewed 2007WFP monitor. It used a S-IPS type panel well regarded as a superior panel to other panel types for photography. The problem was that after a few months Dell began a "panel lottery" and would randomly swap out the S-IPS panels and use low quality S-PVA panels instead. The quality of the Dell S-PVA image was not comparable at all. The S-PVA made dark areas seem darker face on, and a viewer had to tip side to side to see details. Many people were upset to buy a superior Dell monitor and instead have an inferior monitor delivered. There were revolts in Dell forums and the staff there seemed stuck between rocks and hard places. However, Dell also undersold it's superior monitors capabilities on its web site. The speed of its 2007WFP was given as 16ms when it was actually faster (6ms gtg). Supposedly the slower time was meant to allow for the use of slower panels without having to explain any slower times when the superior panels were switched for inferior ones. I know other manufacturers also swap parts out (HP no longer lists what panels are used in its monitors) but Dell was really sloppy about swapping inferior panels for superior ones. It was like putting a Taurus engine in a BMW. Trying to get panels exchanged was both very easy and very hard. Dell didn't refuse exchanges and many people returned monitors 2 or 3 times until they got a S-IPS panel. I returned my first monitor because of stuck pixels. My exchange monitor was the poor quality S-PVA. Dell "forgot" to send return shipping label for monitor number one so I was stuck with two monitors. I now knew I didn't want a Dell anyway but instead wanted an NEC 20WMGX2 (most awesome monitor I ever owned). Well to cut a long story short it took two months of over two dozen calls, case numbers, dropped calls, etc to get monitors returned. I lot of the service people seemed nice enough and they seemed like they wanted to help but from one person to the other the system seemed to break down. To me it just seemed like chaos and not criminal intent. A compnay trying to gouge people doesn't let them make 2,3,4 returns at their cost no questions asked. They don't hide their best selling statistics. This is my opinion after many hours stuck in this situtation from Nov 06 to Feb 07. Dells accounting was so bad they counting even refund the CC I used with PayPal and they had to send me a check after 4 weeks of mishaps on their end. I can't say Dell didn't ask for trouble because they were awful. But I don't think they were criminal as much as poorly managed. I am sure there are worse companies out there.
  • I can totally understand the issues with Dell's Financial Services. Our company was a victim of theirs as well. It took 4 months to finally convince our sales rep to STOP setting us up withtheir Financial Services plan and just invoice us outright.

    Their technical support on the other hand really isn't all that bad if you know what to ask for. (Of course we do pay for premium) It's not as good as Sun's tech support but I've had much worst response issues with companies like Gateways 2000 PCs back when I w
  • by jshriverWVU ( 810740 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @05:46PM (#19152015)
    I find it funny that when an article is about customer service, a lot of people post like "I am superior and the tech on the phone is a moron for not listening to me" Then when we have a post about customers we get a lot of people saying "I am superior, the customer on the end is an idiot and shouldn't have bought a computer" So which is it? Granted I've been on both sides of the spectrum. I've had poor CSR's before who didnt resolve my issue, and I've also worked tech support when people would call me asking "Why doesnt my modem work? So I'd start diagnosing connectivity problems. No the TV wont turn on my modem is broke" You'd be amazed how many people call a computer a modem. Anyway, some CSR's suck some clients suck. Nothing really new here.
  • by careysb ( 566113 )
    I started having problems with my Dell laptop in December. I sent it back for repair 3 times and each time it came back worse. It is now a doorstop. After it came back the second time and I was fiddling with it to try and get it to boot, I removed the battery. I was astounded to find a label on the hidden side of the battery that said "BAD BATTERY do not install in system". Their techs can't even follow their own instructions. No more Dell for me.
  • Please.Stop (Score:2, Interesting)

    Can we please stop putting the names of New York attorney generals in the articles. This guy (I won't say his name, don't want to help his google ranking) just wants to follow the Guiliani/Spitzer tactic of suing big name companies and "standing up for the little guy" even when it's not actually prudent (I'm not judging this case one way or another).
  • "At Dell, customer service means no service at all." - Attorney General of the State of New York.

    Now that's bad press. Visualize that on a billboard, or in a competitor's commercial.

  • by scatteredsun ( 981481 ) on Wednesday May 16, 2007 @06:15PM (#19152439) Homepage
    So, I had a broken A key on a laptop. The damned thing fell off completely. I call up Dell support expecting them to immediatly send out a new keyboard pad. After 45 minutes on hold, the rep decides to take me through Dells little software troubleshooter program they load. I interrupt him "whoa, wait. I am holding the key in my hand! It is completely detached from the keyboard!" His response, " click on Hardware..." And he continues on with the software troubleshooting!! At the end he asks me if it fixed the issue. I told him "no, I'm still holding the key in my hand." Finally he says "ok, we'll send you out a new keypad"

"If it's not loud, it doesn't work!" -- Blank Reg, from "Max Headroom"