OLPC to Run Windows, Come to the US 350
An anonymous reader writes "'Yesterday Nicholas Negroponte, former director of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Media Lab and current head of the nonprofit One Laptop Per Child project, gave analysts and journalists an update on the OLPC project. Two big changes were announced — the $100 OLPC is now the $175 OLPC, and it will be able to run Windows. Even in a market where there are alternatives to using Windows and Office, there's a huge demand for Microsoft software. The OLPC was seen as a way for open source Linux distributions to achieve massive exposure in developing countries, but now Negroponte says that the OLPC machine will be able to run Windows as well as Linux. Details are sketchy but Negroponte did confirm that the XO's developers have been working with Microsoft to get the OLPC up to spec for Windows.' We also find out that the OLPC gets a price hike and will officially come to the US. Could this be tied into Microsoft's new $3 Windows XP Starter and Office 2007 bundle? Now that the OLPC and Intel's Classmate PC can both run Windows, is Linux in the developing world in trouble?"
Bill Gates' criticism (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:AND Slashdot's Criticism... (Score:5, Interesting)
Price of Dollar and System upgrades (Score:5, Insightful)
The dollar has fallen in value quite a lot, next month we'll no doubt see $250 OLPC if it keeps slipping.
Why 256Mb? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless they can offer those 256Mb of RAM at a lower price than a smaller memory, it's a waste of resources. Better make an effort to lower that price than try to make it run windows. What next, the $999 OLPC to run a $300 Vista Starter Edition?
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Re:Why 256Mb? (Score:4, Insightful)
The OLPC are using GTK+ and want to be able to run a Mozilla based browser and Java and so on and have a high quality, child-focused, graphical experience, so 128MB is a minimum really, plus there is no graphics chip so you will need a certain extra amount to draw X etc. My new Macbook has a similar setup and does not take more than 80MB, at least on Linux.
Re:Why 256Mb? (Score:4, Informative)
Also most of the applications are more or less custom, designed or modified to save on RAM and CPU time. Windows XP...could be, but I somehow doubt it would be that easy. If they said it was based on Windows Mobile, I'd be less skeptical.
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256MB may be the new minimum memory module for mass production. Which is fine, if the marginal cost is low enough. Usually, at the low end, there is a minimum where going below that isn't worth it because you make massive sacrifices to save a tiny percentage of money. There's little point in saving a pal
Re:Why 256Mb? - falling for Microsofts tricks (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry but this device does not need to run Windows and I'd already heard previously that the OLPC project ha
Re:Why 256Mb? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, but you, no doubt, have a swap partition when RAM gets full. If you were running off of a small amount of Flash storage instead, you'd have real problems.
Not to mention that the power requirements for your laptop is more than an order of magnitude higher than the OLPC, and yet you probably don't have a WiFi router card in your notebook.
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This question has been asked and answered in their wiki [laptop.org].
I have been asking this myself. Why not? I once met someone who did exactly this. He organized a group in his church to collect and recycle old computers and give lessons to school dropouts in poor neighborhoods.
However, as the wiki I linked above says, it doesn't scale well. To organize a large scale effort in this way you would need a network of pe
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Windows Mobile (Score:3, Interesting)
That's really just a UI criticism, though. The kernel itself is great.
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that honour i think many would agree would fall to psion (at least for anybody who has ever used one). portable. ran for a week on aa batteries. incredibly useful.
in the early 90s here in ireland and the uk i think every accountant and architect (plus a lot of docters) seemed to have one. whenever they released a new one they fetched premium prices as people bidded to get there hands on one. it handled out of the box spreadsheets, word pro
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Graffiti was originally a way to keep people from throwing their Newtons in the trash out of frustration because the handwriting recognition sucked so bad. It was later that Palm made a PDA around their program.
The Palm was a good PDA. It was less expensive, it was simple, and it did 90% of what 90% of PDA buyers needed. Your complaints about the PalmOS can be turned neatly around and claimed to be features.
That said, Graffiti2 sucks balls.
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Wow. Your personal anecdotal evidence is compelling. I'm convinced. Truly.
Re:Why 256Mb? (Score:4, Informative)
PalmOS was a panacea compared to the horrific WinCE, which was the competition at the time.
However, Windows was not the first, by a hell of a long shot. Psion was there in the earliest days, with an operating system that Windows Mobile still can't match, to this day. Hell, I would be willing to use Psion's operating system on my desktop if I could... Palm and Microsoft are both still putting out crap that needs a desktop system to accomplish anything... A decade ago, it was even worse. Yet back then on my handheld Psion, I was doing research via the web, typing entire research papers, inserting graphics, spreadsheets, charts/tables/graphs, and printing it out directly to any available printer via IR, etc.
It worked wonderfully, despite the fact that it had over a month of battery life on 2AA batteries (rechargeables in my case), and with a mere 25MHz CPU it was still far more responsive than any of the 200MHz+ systems with WinCE (or later PalmOS machines).
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Sorry thats a feature on a PDA.
'Also, Pocket PC/Windows Mobile uses a subset of the Windows API, which makes porting lightweight applications relatively easy.'
There is no such thing as a lightweight win32 application.
'INCLUDING video capture and CAD applications.'
Right, because we definately want to do video capture and CAD on a device that crawls when you try to add a note to a list of tasks.
Sorry, but PalmOS has a better interface (the windows interface is bad enough on the desk
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Wow, what a setback (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, MSFT won again!
I wonder how much it cost MSFT to buy them off....
Tom
Not News (Score:2, Interesting)
The question is not whether the OLPC can run Windows. The question is what OS will actually be used, wh
Re:Not News (Score:5, Interesting)
I said 'the news' there.. I guess I really should say 'the spin'.
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Re:Not News (Score:5, Informative)
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also sinc ethe machines support both, people will be able to really compare linux and windows and see what a hog windows is.
Re:Not News (Score:5, Insightful)
Negroponte has screwed open source by nearly doubling the OLPC price so it can run Windows. He's just back-stabbed all the people who donated a lot of time and effort into putting together a low cost laptop and the free as in speech software to run it.
The OLPC project is now dead, just like every other venture that capitulates with Microsoft.
Re:Not News (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow. Imagine my surprise to find slashdotters who think the most important part of making a semi-affordable laptop for poor children living in third world countries is that it promotes open source.
I don't really buy the "wow, 128 extra megs of RAM and 512MB more hard disk space--THEY'RE SLEEPING WITH MICROSOFT!" nonsense. I could buy the parts for that RETAIL and not pay an extra $75, with the exception that probably nobody bothers to sell that kind of super-low-end hardware anymore.
More likely, they had a goal of $100 laptop and have realized that manufacturing isn't cheap. Costs run up all the time in projects of any scope. They've said all along that they expect the price to come down each year; that's an effect of manufacturing, not a magical "Microsoft tax" that apparently would only apply for one year.
Re:Not News (Score:4, Interesting)
Links to microsoft aren't being drawn simply because they've upped the hardware, but because they've upped the hardware from "enough to give the kids a functional laptop" to "enough to run windows"
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I bet some feel violated (Score:3, Interesting)
Now that it is also going to be a vector for the Windows cancer will surely leave many people feeling violated. I know I do, and my contribution was tiny compatred with others.
I really believe that OLPC could be way better if it did not have to support Windows. For example, using an ARM instead of an x86 would have reduced cost and power consuumption.
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OLPC is low-cost only if it can be produced and sold in the tens of millions of units. If open source can't deliver those millions today - when they are needed most - the problem isn't with Negroponte and the problem isn't with Windows.
There is nothing in O
Re:Not News (Score:5, Informative)
So as often happens, the story is more sensationalist than anything else.
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LoB
Re:What was said, what you know, where it goes. (Score:5, Insightful)
BTW, I agree 100% with the comments stated. Microsoft must see OLPC fail if it is not running Microsoft Windows. Microsoft is not out to save the world or educate the world and their only purpose on this earth is to sell Microsoft software. Negroponte and group are fools if they think Microsoft has ANY OTHER MOTIVE. Like I said, there are a couple of decades of evidence which shows how Microsoft 'works'.
LoB
No BIOS so how are you going to boot windows? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well since the laptop is built with a custom OpenFirmware and a LinuxBios (kernel on the firmware), how are they going to boot Windows exactly?
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Tom
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Why would you even bother? If you want a Dell then buy a Dell.
Don't underestimate Microsoft's warchest (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe you wouldn't bother. But Microsoft would.
If they have enough money to laugh at EU's face and keep paying their fine instead of opening their standards, they can afford paying for the whole development, then paying for the rights on the BIOS and the drivers, and then bundle them together with the Windows Starter+Office package for a couple of dollars.
They can even pay some people in their R&D department to make sure that the whole thing can actually work (won't be too much
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Come on (Score:2, Insightful)
Another thought (Score:2, Insightful)
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Your panties are in a bunch... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Your panties are in a bunch... (Score:5, Insightful)
You think it's hard to get proper tech support in the 1st world? Try it in a field school somewhere 500 miles away from the nearest large city. Running windows as opposed to the hardened linux they were developing is just inviting every random malware and virus to hop a ride through their laptops rendering them useless.
Also a lot of the innovative features like the grouping and shared sessions [as well as tailor made games/activities] probably won't be ported [or well] to Windows, leaving the kids with a really large lack of useful software.
Tom
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That you said "Linux monoculture" means you're trolling. There is no such thing. I write an application on Fedora Core, it works in Gentoo, the same software will most certainly compile in a BSD, etc, etc, etc. Try that with Windows.
Nice troll though.
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Tom
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I swear if *ANYTHING* on that OLPC unit changes to suit Microsoft or people who want to put windows on it, shit is going to start flying...
This is not a consumer PC, it does NOT need to be able to run multiple systems, and you DO NOT need a choice. This is a totally custom, embedded system for children who don't have running water, the fact that it uses standard hardware and the Linux
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An offer he couldn't refuse (Score:5, Funny)
Not surprising that Negroponte changed his mind. Waking up and finding that chair in his bed must have really rattled him.
Linux "in trouble" (Score:2)
In trouble of what. It had very low desktop market share and will continue to have low market share. Not exactly a "trouble", not a victory either.
If "Vista Capable" level of compatibility is what we should expect from an OLPC running XP starter edition, I think Linux will prevail.
While I'm a strong supporter of Windows versus Linux as a desktop client (as Linux simply has too many logistical and usa
Anti competitive move? (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's just hope that the next US government will break up Bills empire and throw the upper management in jail.
If the price rises $75, that can be considered a $75 windos tax, that is 42%!
Vista? (Score:2)
Microsoft aren't going to ship an ancient unsupported distribution (98, 2000), which leaves only versions of XP. XP was first sold in 2001, and Microsoft intend it to be usurped by this years Vista. Production of XP is due to be phased out in 2008 (that's next year folks), and retail and OEM licenses won't be available from January 31, 2008 (that's nine months away) according to their following page:
http://www.microsoft [microsoft.com]
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Either Embedded Windows XP, or much, much more likely, Windows CE. And they'll still have to up the hw spec.
The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerated (Score:5, Informative)
True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.
Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you missed the bigger implication here...
None of us care if Billy G sells a crippled, OLPC-specific version of XP dirt-cheap, in a desperate bid to promote Windows adoption in the 3rd world. Exposing people to "Starter Edition" would most likely do more to promote Linux use than compete with it.
Given the price and specs change, and Microsoft's announcement of "embracing" the OLPC, some of us can't help but but 2 and 2 together and get 4. A decent Linux system doesn't need 256MB, while XP can barely run its own Explorer interface, much less any additional programs (and I wouldn't even want to try any of the Office apps such as Word) on anything less.
As the biggest issue here, you need to look at this from two perspectives - Ours, as (most likely) middle-class geeks posting from a Western nation viewing this as a really cool (and still exceedingly cheap) compromise between a palmheld and a laptop and cheap enough to consider nearly disposeable; And a third-world school looking at a total budget of $150 per year, trying to decide if they should buy an OLPC or rebuild the school that washed away in the annual spring mudslide.
Cheap toys vs still-expensive tools.
And lest you take that as baseless speculation, "However, Negroponte disclosed that XO's developers have been working with Microsoft Corp. so a version of Windows can run on the machines as well". No, not a "side effect". Boost the specs and boost the price just so Microsoft can play along.
I wonder how much Nick Negroponte's soul cost Mr. Gates...
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Yes it does. The OLPC doesn't have a hard drive, and so, no swap partition to offload less recently used data, when you're getting low on RAM. Get a few apps running at once, especially with a memory-heavy, interpreted language like Python, and your 128MB of RAM will be full in no time, and applications will start crashing.
Re:The death of Linux on OLPC is greatly exaggerat (Score:5, Interesting)
True: Microsoft is working on a Windows based system that can be executed on the OLPC laptop.
False: There is no strategy change. The OLPC is continuing to develop a Linux-based software set for the laptop in conjunction with Red Hat. But since the OLPC project is open we cannot (and maybe even don't want to) stop other people from developing and supplying alternate software packages.
Apple was turned down on the basis that the laptop was all about the special open sourced based software. Now all of a sudden it's about that, but it's okay if it costs 75% more and runs a cut-rate version of Vista.
On the surface, it seems like Negroponte was certainly co-opted by Microsoft.
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Twelve Hundred Children (Score:3, Insightful)
Twelve hundred children an hour die, largely in said world, and mostly preventable deaths. (Source: UNICEF). That's things like malnutrition, lack of access to clean water, etc...
No offense meant, but can you imagine how much we shouldn't care what kind of operating system these countries are using? There are bigger problems to worry about.
Re:Twelve Hundred Children (Score:5, Insightful)
olpc breaks bounds on hardware - amazing (Score:2, Interesting)
It is also a full on computer with a fantastic screen.
I am glad to see the opening of the hardware to other operating systems. The hardware needs to be commercially available so us geek developers can extend the software
What about Windows CE? (Score:2, Informative)
But can it run Windows *and* Antivirus software? (Score:2, Insightful)
Due to your intervention, the same village will now receive 40% less laptops for the same budget, and experience viruses, BSOD's and Windows bit-rot.
They will become educated in the three R's (Reboot, Reinstall, Reformat and these devices don't come with CD drives).
Of course, you are going to ensure that the 'productivity' software is fully 'compatible' with the Linux software, aren't you.
But at least you won't get any competition from any emerging 3rd world IT industries, eh? Because de
Congratulations (Score:4, Informative)
I live in a third world country, let me say this: 175 $us is too expensive, that 75% more actually means a reduction in possible buyers by 90% (Although this statistic is totally made up, I am pretty sure this is the case, let's say 85%~95%), as a matter of fact, here it is possible to get a 'real' computer (Pentium I, which is enough for a child's computer, did you know?) for 150$us.
And all of this so it can run windows...
That would be hysterical (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux in the developing world in trouble (Score:2)
Not saying its the better choice, but its the 'cheaper' one in the long run if you want to compete.
the whole project has been ruined (Score:2)
regular books (made of paper) is more plausible anyway, they don't need electricity and they don't BSOD...
the original idea of a low cost laptop thingy for third-world children was a good idea, but this has turned in to a commercialized mess, whats next the price going up to 599USD? product activation? these people royally screwed this up maybe beyond repair, the KISS philosophy is needed here more than ever...
This is VERY VERY bad news (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait a second... (Score:5, Funny)
Wow... No OS X? (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe that Negroponte refused, with the argument that he wanted a truly open OS. Now they've gone with windows, I think his mind must be slipping..
B.
Re:Wow... No OS X? (Score:4, Informative)
In the great Slashdot tradition, I didn't read the article, but I got the impression that the OLPC will still be preinstalled with the tailor-made Linux distro. The ability to install Windows or whatever OS doesn't preclude this.
Why demonize companies... (Score:3, Insightful)
OLPC just lost my good will (Score:4, Insightful)
$175 is TOO much for anything in 3rd world (Score:4, Insightful)
even in turkey $175 for such a device is way too much that any family wanting to buy one might ask the supplier whether they will let them pay in installments spreading over 12 or better, 24 months.
Needless to say that in countries that fall in southern and southeastern directions from turkey, which encompass most of the 3rd world countries, $175 will just make olpc a no gamer.
evidently someone sold their soul to some bastards. sad to see, as this olpc thing actually had a chance.
this $175 deal thing is apparently something to enable microsoft to push windows crap on them to third (and second) world so that they will create a userbase and a future upgrade market. if this shit goes through like this,i got to say that, as an it world participant and employee, i will consult anyone and any institution in my area against olpc and ensure i have a hand in its failure. despite i want it to happen very much, better not to happen, than to happen foul.
maybe everything is not over yet. If olpc contributors reassess the situation and pressurize the leaders, sold souls might be reclaimed, if it is not too late.
What does RedHat think about this? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It is not official RedHat statement, but hey, I feel about it the same way.
XO is open computer as much as you can get these days - everything is open, even spec for firmware of webcam. So why in any way forbird Microsoft to create OS for it?
Default will stay RedHat + Sugar anyway, and Windows in no way will have tickless kernel, etc. features what is needed to run this box properly, up to specs.
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Obligatory Disclosure: that someone is me
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Right, but your battery power expires while still booting.
Re:Vista ready? (Score:5, Funny)
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Technically, no (Score:5, Informative)
Several users of both systems (including my own experience) tends to show that Windows comes up with a desktop earlier than Linux. But once there the disk is still trashing for some time. Whereas on Linux, once you're logger, you're logged and everything is ready to run.
The whole stuff is build on windows to give you the impression that it is faster.
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I get a desktop faster that with Ubuntu. The issue, for me, is that after that, one of the first things I want to do, is connect to google talk.
Usually, the wireless adapter takes a looooooong time to appear in my system tray, and to discover whether I can connect to Google Talk.
For my usage, XP takes FOREVER to boot.
I see that you get a desktop faster, but then, I don't want a desktop to see my wallpaper, I want a desktop I can use, to perform the tasks I need.
I am not saying that Vista is faster,
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Windows NT started on the Alpha processors, later was ported to x86. In recent years it was ported to x64 and Itanium (Itanium share nothing with x86 except the company that made them).
Don't invent problems where there aren't.
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They're also ridiculously low powered processors. Albeit not the fastest things ever, probably give the Geode a run for it's money though.
Tom
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The OS might be portable (at great cost) but none of the software that makes Windows a success would be ported (look at your own examples: what software could you get for Alpha and Itanium?) making it pretty useless. On the other hand, most OSS software is ported to pretty much all
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Re:Windows is good for education (Score:5, Insightful)
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If a picture is worth a thousand words my dissertation is going to be a dodle
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Re:Windows is good for education (Score:5, Insightful)
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The "designed for the computer illiterate" statement is absolutely true, regardless of how it stacks up against other OSes. During Windows 95 development, the core team's mantra was to think about every feature and how "Brad Silverberg's Mom" would be able to use it. Brad Silverberg was the executive product manager for Win3.1 and Win95, and whether it was accurate or not, the group's mental image of his mom was that she was a complete novice who might barely be able to understand the relationship betwee
Re:Windows is good for education (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows is designed by lawyers, marketing analysts and people who watch other people using Macs.
lower entry barriers
You're joking, right? Microsoft is nothing but barriers to entry. $$$ for this, $$$ for that, $$$ for the other. And then more $$$ to keep it all safe. And then the same again next year.
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It is not a $3 Windows (Score:2)