First Look At Final OLPC Design 224
blackbearnh writes "At the Consumer Electronics Show on Monday, AMD hosted a presentation of the final Industrial Prototype (Beta 1) of the One Laptop Per Child XO Laptop. Linux Today has extensive reporting, including new photos and details about power consumption, networking, and the logistics of distributing and servicing what will be the largest rollout of any computing platform in history: 5 million units in the first year. This will represent nearly a 10% increase in the total worldwide laptop production for 2007."
Design issue alert! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Design issue alert! (Score:4, Interesting)
And if you aim higher, towards the working class children, the lower middle class, or middle class, then there's no question either: as a rule kids don't like to read in this country. I think it's likely that overall children books are less popular here than in the US, and reading in adults is less popular as well. Kids normally don't like school or studying (no surprise here, I guess), and they avoid it as much as they can. We don't have SAT exams here, or any other kind of exam which require a certain level (except for some high schools which have an acceptance exam), so most kids stick to getting marks just high enough as to pass the class.
So I can't imagine why someone would think that kids would rather use the computer to read a book than to play games. What I would believe, is that many kids would rather chat and browse through social network sites (Fotolog.com is very popular in Argentina and Brasil) than play games. Girls specially. In fact, I'm really happy that thanks to SMS and IM apps, kids now have a reason to read and write ten times more than they did before... even if they do it in garbled kl00l3z-5p34k. I'd like teachers to embrace this fact and help kids improve their on-line writing.
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Of course the kids are going to use the OLPC to play Tetris and other games. It's not an either Tetris or read "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch" thing. The OLPC looks to be able to do both, and it's a safe bet that it will be used for both.
When I worked in a K-8 school, I asked some teachers if I should take Solitaire of the Windows machines.
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These computers are cheaper than a big stack of textbooks, though. I think that's the main point of them.
And note that the article itself mentions that part of the project is getting media for these machines. (And apparently Mexico converts a lot of Spanish language textbooks into e-books.)
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Not in daily usage. (Score:4, Informative)
The point is that library books may not be in constant, daily use; you might be comparing apples to oranges here.
Re:Design issue alert! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention that large-scale distribution is not inexpensive, especially in the market areas for one of these laptops (poor infrastructure makes shipping more expensive). I imagine a government could actually save a good amount of money (if the laptops prove successful and long-lasting) by giving school children one of these laptops and then just having digital textbooks.
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Re:Design issue alert! (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll admit that there's quite a few free ebooks, but the majority of them are 'literary classics' that a child couldn't read if it wanted to and college-level textbooks that a child couldn't read if it wanted to.
If they can get some ebook publishers to donate books for use on these OLPCs that'll be great, but I'm not holding my breath. With the exception of MIT, Gutenberg and Baen.com, I haven't seen a lot of generosity in the form of books. (Physical or electronic.)
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TFA also mentions that the Mexican government is working towards providing all curriculum textb
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The way books are delivered removes that experience from much of the world.
KFG
Before we project from our own experience ... (Score:2)
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and before we worry about delivery method ... shouldn't someone verify that the target user can ... read? Literacy rates in the target countries are probably not what they are in the developed economies.
An abundance of (interesting) reading material is a pretty fundamental tool in developing literacy.
Before worrying about distributing text books, OLPC hopefully will figure out how to overcome the possible problem that the user can't understand anything but the picture on the screen. And if the pictures on the screen resemble a "desktop", would that have any meaning to a typical user?
TFA indicates that the UI is language-free.
Do you really think the "desktop metaphor" bears any resemblance to the top of a desk? I think early Xerox and Apple UIs bore some resemblance to a desk, but I have great difficulty mapping any of the objects on my Windows screen to any of the objects on my desk any more.
(When we were using MacOS 9 at university, my girlfriend commented that it was desktop because i
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I agree; but I didn't learn to read just by sitting next to a pile of books. People read to me, etc. Note that I didn't claim putting books on the machine was a bad idea. I'm just questioning whether it's sufficient and also pointing out that the discussion of which specific literature might be best, regardless of whether it shows how erudite other posters might have been as wunderkinds.
TFA indicates
Re:Design issue alert! (Score:4, Insightful)
If you take out some or part of the cost of printing, the deal becomes even sweeter.
This is a win-win situation - the price of the books go down because they don't need to be printed. This means more books are sold at a possibly higher profit margin. The books can get as large as needed because they are not on paper - encyclopedias can grow to unlimited size. The children have more books because the government can afford more and thus, I hope, the children get a better education and economy improves. And because they don't pollute when are made or transported, the environment wins.
Come on... It's an easy sell.
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Or just develop them at cost. Considering that basic education books are mostly a "write once" project, I'm surprised by the costs. How much would it really cost if you can spread the cost over 5 million PCs? I mean there's not even that many people in my country, and it still happens somehow (but ok we're rich).
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That's great, until you realize that ebooks hardly cost less than physical books.
Which is another problem that needs to be fixed. There's absolutely no reason in the world why we shouldn't have a complete set of open content textbooks covering all of a basic liberal education. Public and private schools spend ridiculous amounts of money on books that contain basic knowledge that's been known for decades, even centuries, and there's no good reason for it other than to line the pockets of scholastic publishers.
Sure, writing books takes effort, but it's an effort that only needs to b
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fucking google it [justfuckinggoogleit.com]
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Books are NOT that expensive to print (Score:5, Interesting)
Go for it, you find me quotes from printers for runs of over five thousand books where they cost any more than, oh, five bucks apiece. And that is assuming conventional paper, hardcover (which is, btw, a terrible design approach compared to, say, tyvek over soft plastic), and the book being the awkward size and design of "normal" textbooks.
But then what would I know? I've only done textbook production work for Harcourt-Brace, Houghton-Mifflin, and Scholastic, not to mention collateral materials and periodicals production for The Trumpet Club, Time, Inc., McGraw-Hill, and, oh, right, my own publishing company.
No, the pricing of textbooks is a result of back-assed production systems, government contractor pricing, schoolbook adoption board warping of design, and terrible legacy choices related to all of the above. And with new digital printing systems coming on line all the time, real world limitations are dropping every year.
Admittedly, I'm delighted at all of the above. I'm just now bringing my first bound products to press and I expect to underprice the buggers by fifty to eighty percent.
But don't believe them when they tell you their mahooah about printing costs. You might as well take Halliburton's word for it on their costs.
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$5 is considerably more than "free", of course. And then there's distribution costs.
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No, the pricing of textbooks is a result of back-assed production systems, government contractor pricing, schoolbook adoption board warping of design, and terrible legacy choices related to all of the above. And with new digital printing systems coming on line all the time, real world limitations are dropping every year.
Thanks for the insight, so the price is really the result of market control over distribution channels and not physical costs associated with printing. That issue is not so trivial. Seems that electronic distribution solves this problem though.
Admittedly, I'm delighted at all of the above. I'm just now bringing my first bound products to press and I expect to underprice the buggers by fifty to eighty percent.
You can print your books, but can you distribute them? Seems places like amazon allow for greater choices in publishers, where they might not require distribution deals just to get your foot in the door. But there is a reason, they call the business "publishing"
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Couch-device? (Score:5, Interesting)
But respect to the project for getting this far, I for one hope they make it all the way. Information wants to be free, after all.
Forget the iPhone as the next Newton Replacement! (Score:4, Interesting)
the Newton (Score:3, Interesting)
"It canniblizes our other sales"
Really, now? The Marine corps wants to carry iMacs into battle?
"It puts us in marketplaces we can't afford to focus on."
Oh, you mean like education, already a core market, and vertical stuff like insurance that is vastly profitable?
"There was never really any demand."
Funny, that's not what, say, Infoworld said, le
I wonder how far MS got installing XP on one? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Probably, based on the colour scheme. =8o
(Yes, I know it's aimed at kids and will no doubt be available in other colours; put me down for a red one to go with the devil-horns antennas.)
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Really? Are all of your tastes so perverted?
Goodbye, Commodore! (Score:3, Funny)
Well, so much for the C64 world domination. It was fun while it lasted.
... Wait! With this production rate, it's more than three years to go, isn't it? Hmm, I guess I can snog my little lovely breadbox for some more time.
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And I can buy a calculator for $10, and it probably has a more advanced processor. I had a C64 for years and years, but unless you're doing embedded work, it's time to let the 8-bit era go.
When will consumers be able to buy these? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:When will consumers be able to buy these? (Score:4, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6246989.stm [bbc.co.uk]
As posted below, but more pertinaint as a reply to your post
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Exactly! (Score:2)
These machines are substantially below the market value, in particular the built in mesh networking is interesting. What's going to happen is that they will be diverted in large numbers to places like ebay. What would you do if you were handed something worth a year's salary? T
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soon (Score:2)
and it will be twice the price (so $300 seems about right as they cost $150 to make at the moment)
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The software side can probably be changed (given it's linux based, I expect major improvements will happen if the OLPC becomes popular in the west). Perhaps a different color (black or white instead of green?) would make it more appealing. But storage would be a serious iss
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I think Sugar (the UI) would be hateful, but it is just Linux running underneath so I expect you could shove a cut down dist onto the thing and it work pretty much like a regular laptop. In terms of usefulness, I think that if it were bundled with Firefox, Thunderbird, Op
And we can get them (Score:4, Informative)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6246989.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Distribution. Distribution. Distribution. (Score:2)
What about heat? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Just wondering... What happens when somebody forgets the thing on direct sunlight (which is IMHO quite likely with kids)? Won't it damage the LCD or battery if left there for a while?
They've suggested that one reason they want to give the machines directly to kids, and not to schools, is that the kids will value them more that way, have a sense of ownership, and look after them better. By that logic, once they've learned that leaving one out in the sun kills it (if that's the case), they won't do it again.
The question then is, how easy is it to get a replacement? Make it too easy, and you lose the incentive to look after the one you have. Make it too hard, and there'll be deserving chi
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I'm starting to wonder if anybody at the OLPC project (or even on Slashdot) has actually watched kids in real life? Even when a kid has a sense of ownership, that doesn't mean they won't leave the thing sitting on the floor of the living room for someone to step on, or next to a window that will get direct sun in 12 hours. Kids don't work like that.
You generalise. Also we don't know what age kids we're talking about.
When I was -- ooh -- 9 years old perhaps, my parents bought a BBC Micro for the family. It cost £400 -- a lot of money in those days, and a big investment by my parents. They sat me down and explained that it was an expensive and precious thing, and that I wasn't to boast about it at school because other kids would be envious. I was as good as gold, I used it every day, and I treated it with great care, and I most certainly did not
Re:What about heat? (Score:5, Informative)
The OLPC does not contain any real moving parts (hard disk, etc) and the motherboard is behind the LCD panel, not under the keyboard (where the battery is). The processor runs nice and cool (in fact, it's underclocked).
I worked at one for a while and it was a welcome relief from my 'burn your lap' ThinkPad with a PIII : ) That said, proper suspect and power management isn't done yet, so they have a lot more to do in these areas.
Software (Score:4, Interesting)
However, the OLPC folks seem unworried:
With two more betas to go before the summer, Bletsas was unfazed by the glitches. He also called the current state of the software "barely useable," but again was confident that it would be where it needed to be by launch.
I hope that this confidence is not misplaced.
Re:Software (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't have to take their word for it; you can grab the complete software stack and test it yourself, if you want. The OLPC team provide OS images [laptop.org] that you can use to run the software in any x86 virtualization platform (they recommend qemu, but people have it running in VMWare and Parallels as well).
It's worth checking out just to see their new "Sugar" UI -- which is pretty cool IMHO.
Re:Software (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not like you can't shoot yourself in the foot with python, its just harder to do so. You don't have to worry about pointers, it has a HUGE and stable library, and integrated unit testing.
Also, the GTK bindings are very mature. So if all you need is rewrite some UI code, Python probably is your safer bet.
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One nod to security is that each application runs in its own VM. (Why am I replicating TFA??)
worried about the software .. (Score:2)
I thought OLPC [fedoraproject.org] was based on Fedora Core [redhat.com] sponsored by Red Hat Inc. so I wouldn't worry.
"Those machines may not see a network connection after they are sold, so the software has to be right first time. It also has to be secure.
If they won't be seeing a network then how would security be a problem.
However, the OLPC folks seem unworried:
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There are alternatives - Pepper Computer's [pepper.com] Linux environment runs on the OLPC [youtube.com]. It's more mature than the OLPC software, and was designed from the beginning for consumers. It focuses on web browsing and media rather than education, although it's possible to run things like eToys too. Pepper integrates Firefox, MPlayer, Helix, and a number of other open-source projects into something much simpler and easier to use than your standard GNOME
Playstation buttons (Score:2)
What's the story there? Did Sony suggest it? Were Sony asked for it? Is it product placement, or did the OX designers see merit in the culture-agnostic use of geometric shapes?
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Someone's smoking crack... (Score:2, Funny)
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And that, in a nutshell, is why the next generation of US and European kids are going to be serving coffee and noodles to the highly motivated, well educated immigrants who will be doing all the real work by then.
Please, if 3rd worlders were that educated then 419 scams wouldn't be half as funny.
Furthermore, I'd take the general knowledge base of an average American any day of the week over someone who grew up in a country where it's 'common knowledge' that sleeping with a virgin can cure AIDS.
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Tsk.
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I bet if you sampled a typical mixed classroom of British 14 year olds, at least 10% of them would choose Jane Austen over Bungie.
After all, more than half of them will be girls, and while many girls do enjoy gaming, Halo's a particularly macho example.
But, you know, you can have both. Monday: save Princess Peach. Tuesday: The Old Man and the Sea.
Out of touch? (Score:2, Insightful)
- Bletsas
They may be in the third world, but believing that most children would rather read an e-book than play a video game seems a bit out of touch. And before the rabbid Lemony Snicket and Harry Potter fans chime in, a couple things to keep in mind are that not all children can read, and of those who can and want to read, books tend to
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Parallel processing capability? (Score:2)
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Something I was wondering in general (but which might apply well for OLPC laptops due to the lower processing power) is if it would be feasible to implement a multicomputer parallel processing capability. That is, use the mesh network to divide processing between multiple laptops, based on a language like Erlang (if it requires substantial changes or simplification maybe give it a new name like IntErlang). I imagine it would use a BitTorrent approach to managing jobs and transferring data, and the connected laptops each run a safe process that handles computation & calculation (like is done with SETI@home).
Doing all this would seem to create a virtual community-based supercomputer, but I don't know enough to identify if there are any showstoppers.
Translation: "Imagine a Beouwulf cluster of these things"
Extreme Annoyance? (Score:2)
When I'm reading something online, I don't scroll more frequently than two seconds. I would probably find something else to do if I had to keep jogging the touch pad to keep the display active. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this?
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According to TFA: "In general, the XO uses what Bletsas calls 'Extreme Suspend,' going to sleep after two seconds of inactivity, but waking up within 300 milliseconds of an action."
When I'm reading something online, I don't scroll more frequently than two seconds. I would probably find something else to do if I had to keep jogging the touch pad to keep the display active. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this?
I understood this as being the CPU suspending, not the whole machine. The display subsystem would stay up. I could be wrong also, though.
the display doesn't go black (Score:2)
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In the same way, the wireless chip also is in a separate power domain and can keep working (routing packets on the mesh) even when the rest of the machine is off.
More evidence about true cost (Score:2)
My guess is that the implicit $150 "savings" in distribution cost -- which is a cost shift (to developing economies) and not a cost savings -- is based on distribution costs in develo
No moving parts....but (Score:3, Insightful)
Proprietary closed source Wifi chip (Score:2)
The choice of Marvell Wifi chip contradicts the very philosophical goal of OLPC itself. Disgusting.
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Looking at current statistics and surveys I see no reason to believe it is any different now. I think the figures are around 1% of UK 13-15yr old girls are acutally getting pregnant, so the % of that age group having sex must be much higher, and the % looking at porn is most
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What worries me is countries like Nigeria and Rwanda being among the largest recipients of this toy
FURTHER OLPC BENEFIT! (Score:4, Funny)
1. Overpopulation
2. Teen pregnancy
3. AIDS and other STDs
Now I'm even more in favor of the OLPC project!
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Great 5 million laptops all needing more power. Say 100W per laptop, 500MW extra power is now needed to run them.
Why speculate about the power requirements, when you can RTFA?
Peak consumption is around 5 watts for high-demand media applications, it falls to around 3 watts for browsing, under a watt when used as an e-Reader in black and white mode, and only 350 milliwatts to participate in the mesh network.
I accept that manufacturing and distribution will have an environmental impact. Whether or not an empowered and informed next generation of world population offsets that, I can't begin to guess.
I guess even glancing at the article.... (Score:2)
...was too much to ask
The final selection for power generation has yet to be made; it will be a yo-yo-like device that can be pulled by hand or foot, with a strap that can attached it to a belt or table. The yo-yo generates around 10 watts, while the XO consumes a mere 3 watts in non-intensive computing. This means, for example, that that for every 10 minutes of power generation, a child should be able to surf the internet for a half hour.
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brickwork! Mod parent up, please (Score:2)
2 1/2 seconds of lifting the brick to the ceiling if you're a bit clever.
I had to noodle on that a moment before the image became clear. Good one! And I think right in line with the kind of creative interaction that OLPC hopes the kids will get into.
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Unfortunatelly for you, we speak Portuguese here in Brazil, as many others have already pointed out. Anyway, just for not being "one more to bash you for you not knowing that", let me add some information. In Spanish-speaking countries, "Paco" is a nickname for "Francisco", which is a common name in Brazil too. But in Brazil the nickname for "Francisco" is "Chico", which coincidentally is one of the Spanish words for "bo
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We're probably not talking about refugee camps in famine-struck areas -- those really are people with more pressing needs.
Bu
stealing food from starving children .. (Score:2)
The people of Sudan and elsewhere are starving because of continual civil war brought on by the use of other technology sold them by the west, namely GUNS. Providing them with the OLPC and a meal are not necessarly mutually exclusive.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/sudan1103/ [hrw.org]
http://www.ecosonline.org/back/aboutus.html [ecosonline.org]
Is this real
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Is the target market for this thing really those kids we see on the Christian Children's Fund adds? If they are, I think a better goal for the worlds resources would be something like "A pair of shoes for every chilled" I would imagine that starving people in the Sudan...''
No, you're not the only one to think of this. People keep bringing this up, but I wonder why. It's not like everyone who doesn't live in the rich West and d
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"This is my opinion on the subject. Simply my humble predictions: this will be a *very* disrup
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I've been reading about the USSR recently. One of Lenin's beliefs was that the interim proletariat dictatorial state would wither into an state-
OLPC will retard democracy .. (Score:2)
But then again neither is the US or its satellite in Europe, GB ltd. For decades protests were allowed across the road from the House of Commons, but not any more [bbc.co.uk]. It took the party of the workers to sneek in the leglisation, over the weekend and while parliament was on holiday. Eight arrested in Iraq protest [guardian.co.uk]
was: I don't think the OLPC is a good idea
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The children that this will help DO want to read a book. In order to reach the kids who will matter, one must offer opportunity to the group.
Let's face it, most PEOPLE, anywhere, don't amount to sh1t. That is not a problem. Reaching the few who will learn and use that learning along with the personal ambition and ability to succeed matters.
Geeks and technically able people are a minority in ALL countries, but we matter
OLPC contributes to waste .. (Score:2)
He didn't actually say discarded, what he said they would be repaired at government depots or replaced.
"There is no mention of whether this has been considered, or if these devices may be RoHS compliant"
You're kidding right?