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Hardware Hacking Data Storage Sony Hardware

Upgrading Hard Drive in Sony HDR-SR1 HDD Camcorder 69

Posted by timothy from the shoot-your-children-more-effectively dept.
clarkbox2 writes "Here is an interesting page detailing the cracking open of a $1400 camcorder just released by Sony. The pictures and text describe the opening of the outer shell, revealing the 1.8" Toshiba hard drive within. The HDR-SR1 ships with a tiny 30gb hard drive, allowing for four hours of recording in full HD. Great pictures showing the steps to recording bliss ... now where to get a battery capable of lasting for 12+ hours of full HD video?"
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Upgrading Hard Drive in Sony HDR-SR1 HDD Camcorder More

Upgrading Hard Drive in Sony HDR-SR1 HDD Camcorder

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  • But they didn't upgrade it. (Score:3, Informative)

    by dopaz ( 148229 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @11:34AM (#17360216) Homepage
    The article is a little short on details... all they did was removed the cover to access the hard drive. Oh well, its ecks-mass.
    • The article is a little short on details... all they did was removed the cover to access the hard drive. Oh well, its ecks-mass.

      Pity that Sony did not think to make the drive removable by the user. The SATA standard allows this for RAID arrays but its even more logical for laptops and cameras and as a general 'high capacity' storage medium.

      I guess that this is the sort of feature we will have to wait a while on, till the competition has heated up.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by DrSkwid ( 118965 )
        iLink

        • I don't know about you, but I've never seen an internal hard drive with a Firewire connector; hence the suggestion for SATA (which, sooner or later, should propagate to 2.5" drives).

        • iLink would work fine for the external Firewire boxes with DV and HDV camcorders because they use that connector. Firestore and other makers have external recording boxes. Unfortunately, the SR1 does not have iLink/Firewire, all transfers are over USB2 unless you go extreme and capture video using an HDMI card.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rvw ( 755107 )

      The article is a little short on details...

      Not only that, but he could have edited the pictures a bit. The black is so.... black. Can't see a thing!

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Nexx ( 75873 )
        I think you need to adjust your settings a bit -- my IBM Thinkpad's LCd resolves the different shades and gies me sufficient detail.
    • Looks like the camera was designed to allow this kind of "hack".
      What next, are we going to get an article about adding RAM to an HP laptop?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by mwbauers ( 702572 )
      I don't know about most people.........

      But I am waiting for the makers to put out camcorders that have REMOVABLE hard-drives.

      You just have to look just a bit further out and you'll see the market eventually giving us those tiny hard drives in a universal REMOVABLE SATA mount, and Camcorders built to use them.

      I really like the form-factor of the Samsung [sp?] all electronic camcorder that is about half the size of a pack of cigarettes, has a tethered second video head.......... BUT ONLY USES DIGITAL CARDS..
      • 1.8" hard drives are so expensive that I don't think there is a point in making them like field-swappable modules, I think they'd charge $400 for an 80GB module and be about the size of an iPod for best durability. In comparison, $2 DV tapes make a nice archive format in themselves. I know tapes are going away but they still hold their own in my opinion, I haven't had a problem with them.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dthree ( 458263 )
          Tapes aren't going away yet, there are several HD formats in the pro video world that are tape-based, although they aren't mini-enough for consumer user. That's ok because HDV is pretty good for consumer video. Right now the only removable memory system in pro video uses solid state cards http://panasonic.com/business/provideo/p2/index.a s p [panasonic.com] and they are kinda 'spensive for the size. Panny doesn't have a tape format that can take DVCPRO HD, just these P2 cards.
          • I thought DVCPRO HD can be (and is) put on a miniDV tape by someone, but maybe Panny doesn't offer that feature. You only get 15 minutes out of the tape with that format, but that's definitely more you get out of P2. What P2 does though is allow much faster retrieval.

            I do agree that miniDV has some legs in it, it's a mature format that is fairly well established where there is a veritable ecosystem of products and experience around it. HDV extends that. I didn't suggest that it's going away next year, b

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dthree ( 458263 )
              Right, i forgot about varicam. It has 4x the datarate of DV/DVCPRO so you can only fit 1/4 the time on a DVCPRO tape. I used a P2 camera on a shoot a few months ago and it would only put HD on the P2 cards and only DV on the built-in tape drive.

  • where to buy (Score:3, Informative)

    by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @11:39AM (#17360244) Homepage
    ...in case anyone wants to know.
    http://www.pricescan.com/electronics/items/item527 336.asp?sid=G5120995 [pricescan.com]

    And here's its specs. [bhphotovideo.com]
  • I assume the post is referring to capacity and not physical size. These young punks today. Why in my day we had 10MB drives and we were happy with them! And we had to walk to and from school in the driving snow uphill BOTH WAYS!

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by bcat24 ( 914105 )
      You had hard drives?! In *my* day, we stored our data in huge magnetic drums. And we liked it!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rvw ( 755107 )

        You had hard drives?! In *my* day, we stored our data in huge magnetic drums. And we liked it!

        You had huge magnetic drums? And you like them?! In my days we had paper [groovycandies.com], and we liked it so much, we didn't even write on it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by omeomi ( 675045 )
        You had magnetic drums?!? In my day, we stored our data on an onion, because that was the style at the time...
    • I assume the post is referring to capacity and not physical size. These young punks today.Seriously, 30gb -> 4 hours in HD! How can anyone complain (although I like the mod)
      Why in my day we had 10MB drives and we were happy with them! And we had to walk to and from school in the driving snow uphill BOTH WAYS!
      I supose you didn't have Eucledian (sp?) geometry back then.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by fishbowl ( 7759 )
      I'm from the same "day", and I remember being painfully aware that digital storage had not reached the levels where audio and video would be possible. What I didn't expect, was that the "plateau of human proportions" would be reached so quickly or exceeded so dramatically (exceeded, that is, in the sense that audio recording quality is so far beyond the threshold of human perception that we don't actually *need* any more advances -- this is yet to come for video.)

  • system design (Score:4, Insightful)

    by oohshiny ( 998054 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @12:11PM (#17360398)
    Maybe the 30G drive is just in there to keep the price down. But maybe it's part of the overall system design--a good compromise between battery life, size, weight, robustness, etc. So, I wouldn't blindly assume that putting an 80G drive into the device will make a better camcorder.

    Note that the 80G drives that the article mentions are found in iPods are actually in iPods that are substantially thicker than the iPods using 30G drives.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 )
      A larger drive would just extend the record time, assuming that it can be done. The problem is that page is at best just exposing the drive, no attempt was made to upgrade the drive, so there's no way to know that it would be accepted without hacking the firmware.

      That camcorder is a little ahead of the curve, editing the file format that it records is a pain, you'll need to transcode it.

  • where to get a battery capable of lasting for 12h? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mikelieman ( 35628 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @12:14PM (#17360414) Homepage
    "now where to get a battery capable of lasting for 12+ hours of full HD video?""

    See that jack labeled "DC-in"?

    Google "Battery Belt" and knock yourself out.

    • Amen, not to mention that I've been recording 12+ hour streches for years...all it took was getting a laptop with a firewire in an WinDV. It's never been film capacity that's the problem. Battery is a little harder but....I'm never just holding a camera for 12 hours in my hand. Which means I'll be using a tripod. Which means I'll have time to setup. Which means I can run and tape down an extension cord from the outlets that 99% of all places have somewhere to run the buffer or power washer.

      I would buy

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Jeff DeMaagd ( 2015 )
        JVC makes 720p HDV camcorders. They are not hard drive based, but if you are recording straight to a notebook computer, then you wouldn't need to use tapes.
    • If you are going to plug it into the mains, you might as well just add a firewire cable and record straight onto a computer or dvr. I think 30GB is plenty for using it on the go.

  • Mod without a mod (Score:3, Informative)

    by MojoRilla ( 591502 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @12:41PM (#17360546)
    Yes, this is a mod without an actual mod. All they do is show pictures of the hard drive, and pine for an extra 1.8" hard drive. On one hand, if you spend ~1000 on a camcorder, what's an extra $240 to more than double the recording time? On the other, do you really want to take a chance that you might destroy your ~1000 investment?

    Hard drive camcorders might be the wave of the future. However, removable flash based memory is also interesting, and avoids mechanical parts all together. 8 gig SD cards [reghardware.co.uk] are here, though still expensive. The question is, will the convenience of having no moving parts and removable media outweigh the inconvenience of smaller media? Ultimately, flash (or some successor) will probably win. But in the short term, hard drives look good.

    The Sony HDR SR1 has a serious problem, in that it records using AVCHD [wikipedia.org], which is uneditable by third party products at this time. Things should be better come spring (when Sony Vegas will support AVCHD).

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )
      The Sony HDR SR1 has a serious problem, in that it records using AVCHD [wikipedia.org], which is uneditable by third party products at this time. Things should be better come spring (when Sony Vegas will support AVCHD).

      I don't think "Third party" means what you think it means.
    • I'm going to add an external mic jack to my Canon HV10. It's the only feature missing from an otherwise sensational HD camcorder -- the ability to use a dynamic shotgun mic or condensor mics and a phantom power mixer to pull in professional-quality audio which matches the brilliant HD picture. I've not yet cracked it open, but it should be as simple as adding a stereo 1/8" audio jack wired in parallel with the factory mic, a DPDT switch, a sharp drill and nerves/balls of steel (needed to crack open a $1000
      • I'm slightly ahead of you on that. While I haven't actually tried to do that mod yet, I have opened the camcorder and it does appear to be relatively easy task for a mod, but I have not actually done it yet. It is not that hard to take apart or reassemble, you just have to keep track of what screw goes where though it's easy to figure out if you put the wrong screw in the wrong place.

        I was thinking of just nixing or disconnecting the internal mic in favor of a standard miniplug because the internal mic is
      • I'd rather have a timecode system (SMTPE would do fine) on the camera, and a compatable system on an external sound recorder, something that is completely solid-state, and would allow the use of real mics and preamps. If I *wanted* to use a small condensor mic and hang the recorder on the camera, I still could, but I would certainly appreciate the ability to do proper sound recording and be assured that the sound could be sync'd to the video. But then, I am far more interested in audio than video, and, ma
        • But so long as you're giving a signal to the camcorder to sample (either @ 16 bit or 24 bit resolution) and don't need more than two tracks, synch is not an issue. It compresses the video in realtime along with the audio track.

          However, if you're needing more than two tracks (for example, recording a musical act or a stage play, etc.) then I could see how you'd need an external multitrack recorder and this camera isn't designed for that. However, you could do it the old-fashioned-way and simply use a snapbo

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by fishbowl ( 7759 )
            Yeah, if you can put 2-channel audio into the camera in the digital domain, that is very, very cool stuff for a consumer device. Just take a 2-channel mix off the board (SP/DIF? It's a Sony, so I hope it has that), and use it as a reference track or whatever, and do multitrack audio however you want.

            I do think very much in terms of multitrack recording, since any video I would be doing, would be of musical acts where the audio is much more than merely incidental stuff. Consumer audio gear already gives u
    • I have one question: Why have a hard drive in a small, easily-knocked-about video camera? What's better about a delicate, shock-sensitive moving part in an electronic good that's going to be abused? There's a lot to be said for more storage, but how about buying more tapes?

      Call me a Luddite, but I just bought one of these for Christmas, and I went with the tape version. Talk all the smack you want about tape, but it's durable, shock-resistant, and stands the test of time.

      Besides... what's with this site?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dthree ( 458263 )
        Not to mention tape is cheaper than hard drives and you don't have to erase it when you run out of space, just stick another tape in. After capture, put your tapes on the shelf and you already have a backup of your source.
  • 12+ hour with a camera that size shouldn't be that difficult...

    Unfortunately, the power supply upgrade will have to be belt mounted.

    I don't know why they made it sound so difficult as we can do 5 hour sprints on a single battery with cameras consuming much much more power.

  • not true hd (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This camera uses 4:2:2 chroma subsampling, and is therefor not 'true' HD. Although it is a great camera for the price they indicated, as there aren't any 4:4:4 cameras for under $10k

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dthree ( 458263 )
      Its a $1000 consumer-based camera with double the color resolution per pixel compared to DV, so I don't think the thing has good enough optics for anyone to notice the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4. Also, nobody said that HD requires 4:4:4 although I'm sure sony would like everyone to think so since they are the only one with a full aquisition solution (HDCAM SR)

  • AVCHD codec support in Linux (Score:3, Interesting)

    by linuxguy ( 98493 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @02:23PM (#17360992) Homepage

    Does it exist for playback and/or editing?

  • I'm still on DV tapes -- for good reason (Score:3, Informative)

    by Roblimo ( 357 ) on Monday December 25, 2006 @03:23PM (#17361194) Homepage Journal
    That reason is the motion artifacts and image noise that seem to go along with the AVCHD format. And that's just *one* of the reasons why, instead of buying an HDR-SR1, I paid an extra ~$1200 for a Sony HVR-A1U [sonybiz.ca] that does not only standard DV and HDV but also DVCAM format.

    I lust after the time savings of being able to bang a camera hard drive's contents into a computer at faster-than-playback speeds, but I also like the fact that DV tapes give me an original archive of what I've shot, and for at least the next few years it's likely that DV and HDV (and DVCAM and DVPRO) are going to be the dominant formats for prosumer, event, and a growing amount of ENG video.

    OTOH, if you don't know what DVCAM, DVPRO and ENG mean, you'll probably be happy with the SR1. I would strongly recommend it over the similarly-priced DV-tape HC3, which has neither mic nor headset jacks. (Hint: *always* use an external mic to keep from picking up the camcorder's own mechanism noise -- and noise from your finger/hand movements if you're hand-holding the thing. Or your breating if you're 1' away from the back of the cam and trying to get clean sound from a person 10' away in front of it.)

    Four hours of recording time is a LOT if you're going to be doing around-the-home and local shooting where you can unload the cam into a computer every day (and you have major HD space on the computer). The biggest on-camera battery you can buy for that cam will go about five hours, which is barely enough to get 4 hours of actual shooting.

    I have never shot more than four hours in a single day, myself. In general, I think you will find that for most home, semi-pro, training video, and indie film use, you will rarely (if ever) shoot much more than two hours per day, so a 4 hour HD on the cam ought to be plenty for most people.

    - Robin

     
    • I personally haven't had a problem with the internal mic recording the camera's noise, the problem with the internal mic is that they simply don't sound very good and and the internal mics are nearly omnidirectional. Often, the mic doesn't even fully point in the direction of the shot, so if it's not omnidirectional, you are recording better audio away from the shot.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Kjella ( 173770 )
      Well, the Sony HVR-A1U is in a very different market. Unless you'd like some wear it like some press ID, the rest of us would like camcorders that look at least somewhat like consumers when carried around. Ups and downs for the three contenders

      Sony HDR-SR1:
      + Audio jacks
      - AVCHD format has worse quality
      - AVCHD isn't easily edited

      Sony HDR-HC3:
      + Picture quality
      - Only "accessory shoe" mic input

      Canon HV10:
      + Smallest
      + Great quality in good light
      - Terrible quality in poor light

      Personally, I'm hoping for an upgrade

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by hobbesx ( 259250 )
      Something that seems to be common for all of the HD based camcorders is a much lower apparent bitrate for their digital encoding, which is why I choose DV myself. (Along with the fact that it's less expensive, more common, and I can simply replace tapes if I'm slow to archive to the computer system.)

      It's my guess that a lower bitrate allows for more power conservation and a lower price for encoding hardware, but that's entirely supposition on my part.
  • First thing I thought when I saw this page was: another viral from Sony themselves...
  • ... now where to get a battery capable of lasting for 12+ hours of full HD video?
    AutoZone.
  • You know, you don't have to record the 12 hours of footage in a single take. You could even, you know, recharge the batteries and shoot the next scene later, after you have spent the time setting up the location/set/lighting. Gosh, you could even buy more than one battery pack!

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