Growing Problems With Electronics Waste 207
eldavojohn writes "The BBC is reporting that many countries are dumping their e-Waste in poorer African nations. From the article, 'The world's richest nations are dumping hazardous electronic waste on poor African countries, says the head of the UN's Environment Programme (Unep).' The problem with e-Waste (versus other wastes) is that the gases and chemicals that make up a lot of electronics are particularly harmful for the environment. I suppose nobody takes their computer, TV or Radio to the repair shop anymore since a new one is a fraction of that cost down at the local convenience store."
repairs vs new (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, case in point - I gave someone a quote of £175 to fix their laptop. They preferred instead to spend £339 on a new one. Even if the cost is lower for repairs people still prefer to buy new (which doesn't make much sense to me).
Re:repairs vs new (Score:5, Insightful)
£339 - £175 = £164. £164 for an upgraded laptop starts to sound ok, doesn't it. Now take broken'ish laptop and put on ebay and you reduce that £164 figure still further, depending on age and how broken it really is. Suddenly the choice is obvious - unless this laptop is a current model, you're as well geting rid and buying something more up to date.
Cheers,
Ian
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Except that you (IMHO) can't get a decent laptop for £339 (~$600). My sister bought a $550 Dell and it's overweight, has awful battery life, and has been problematic - screen not working right, pointer going apeshit, etc. And, yes, XP is a clean install, those are hardware problems.
If you want a decent new laptop that's actually usable as a portable and reliable enough to be a business machine
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I like your eco-friendly remark. There'll be a market for wooden laptops and hemp carry cases soon. (cue futurama references: wooden bender).
Re:repairs vs new (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had mine for over two years now and I don't think I'll be upgrading until either the battery or the screen completely dies. It's a 1.5Ghz Pentium M with 2 gig of RAM. Linux/GNOME runs like a dream and the only time I need more speed is when I want to compile something... more of a FSB issue than anything else. This just means that I'll stick with pre-compiled binaries as opposed to a gentoo solution for the moment.
Hardware has become cheaper. China has happened. Then there is Linux. Linux is now mature enough as a desktop environment. Very little extra bloat is needed for the Linux desktop... it only needs cleaning around the edges with a standardised interface. Historically the driving force behind increasing PC power usage has been bloatware (the old wintel alliance). Linux has a different business model to MS and is forcing MS to slow down its bloat process. If MS continues to force bloat, then it will open a door for Linux to be installed on smaller, cheaper, less powerful hardware, thus lowering the TCO for a Linux based network operating system.
Personally, I think we are about to see a rapid decline in new PC hardware sales, moving instead towards notebook style PCs. DIY PCs are about to become a thing of the past. Vista is likely to be the last MS operating system that requires a generational hardware upgrade, the maturity of Vista as an operating system is astounding. It appears that the relationship between MS-OS-revisions and maturity is "Maturity = ln(revision number)", where the function ln is the natural logarithm. After the upgrade to Vista, the only need to upgrade further (other than aesthetics) will be to reduce power consumption with efficient hardware, which itself will take on an exponential relationship.
The only place I still see bloat in the MS machine is in the active directory, and this isn't PC based, its network based...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You must be young enough to not remember the minimum specs for win95... *shudder*
eye candy
Re: (Score:2)
eye candy
That's actually what I thought the only benefit of WinXP Pro over Win2000 were. It turns out that there are real benefits to using WinXP Pro rather than Win2000 in a networked environment on hardware that can handle it. I predict that Vista will be really bashed as only eye candy by
Re: (Score:2)
I mean, until I'd seen a couple articles on /., the concept of doing anything with a laptop, or desktop and monitor other than tosssing out with the rest of the garbage out front to be picked up, never occured to me.
And I've never really seen any 'program' for recycling them, nor an
Re: (Score:2)
There's just no pleasing some people.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You get a new warranty, and you (probably) get better system specs.
Those are some pretty convincing arguments!
As a result, I get a lot of older laptops this way. I fix them up and give them to friends or use them for little servers. Until a laptop is a commodity like a toaster, where the new model won't have that much to offer over the old model, people will buy a new computer instead of rep
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Of course, if you use store-bought bread and/or artificial "I can't believe anybody thinks this tastes remotely like butter" spreads, you probably won't be able to appreciate the difference. Home-baked bread, toasted evenly on both sides under North Sea Gas and served at once with real dairy but
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Two reasons:
First, to prevent returns. You would be amazed at how many people return computers because trialware isn't installed. Customers want DVD Playback/CD Writing/Anti-Virus software. OEMs don't want to pay for that software. So they install trialware. The funny part about the CD Writing so
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'll explain why they choose a new item. (Score:3, Insightful)
They'd be stupid not to spend £339 on
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Tell me what your superiority over Joe Shmo has to do with buying electronics.
Re: (Score:2)
The electronics buying scenario is merely an example of a larger problem that is becomming entrenched in our society and especially here in the United States. There are many other examples which can be substituted for this one without changing the essential point, but since the example in this case was electronics purchases I chose to use the one at hand rather than introducing a completely different instance and possibly obsc
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think the reason people prefer to just get a new one is they figure that once there is a problem, even after you fix it, there may be more, the 175 is a low estimate in their minds. Try giving people a GUARANTEE that your repair won't be greater than 175 and I'll bet you'll see more p
Re: (Score:2)
you can either:
a) Pay one person in a western country (where there may be 5% or more unemployment and a large majority or people doing dead-end service jobs) to spend 2-3 hours to take a device apart, figure
Re: (Score:2)
The other electronics trash may be a problem now but it will be gold for whoever owns it later, same for landfills.
Decomposing Laptops -- digest them with bacteria (Score:2)
You made me think of a couple of points which I found relevant. First of all, laptop (shell)s have been made out of natural materials, but until we can do something like grow a wet laptop -- grow it out
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So far, I've repaired a 9 year old VCR whose SMPSU had died due to failed capacitors (about £3 in parts, and an hour of my time), a cheap
Ironically (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ironically (Score:4, Informative)
Having been through the RoHS transition for my company's consumer products, I can tell you it is really not that bad.
There were some pains - plastic in one connector that had very minor heat deformation issues, and tin whiskers in another connector, which were easily cleared with a blast of air. However, as soon as we pointed these out to the suppliers they were quickly fixed.
There were also some delays getting new lead-free ICs and hexavalent-chromium-free screws, but nothing disastrous.
Reliability in the field has been just as good with non-RoHS product.
And as an added bonus, since it is far more cost effective to produce _only_ RoHS compliant products, our US shipments will also be lead-free.
I suspect your experiences are not first-hand. I have yet to hear from anyone who is experiencing big problems with RoHS that can't be chalked up to simple bad planning.
The RoHS requirements may have been a transitional PITA for many, but now that everyone had made the switch, it is really no more difficult to design and build than it was before. Maybe the solder costs a few cents more.
Re:Ironically (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, for an old laptop, that could be a bad idea.
My experience: I sourced a replacement battery for a 5 year old Fujitsu laptop direct from Fujitsu who had it stocked all these years. Even though the new battery was virgin, it had deteriorated in storage.
Instead, repack your battery ( http://www.google.com/search?q=repack+laptop+batt
Re: (Score:2)
My experience: I sourced a replacement battery for a 5 year old Fujitsu laptop direct from Fujitsu who had it stocked all these years. Even though the new battery was virgin, it had deteriorated in storage.
Instead, repack your battery
Depending on how old your laptop is, it might actually make more sense for you to buy a whole freaking new laptop rather than buying replacement batteries. I've had really flaky luck on reman. laptop batteries. We've looked a
Re: (Score:2)
Washing machines - I've had terrible trouble with them recently. Who knows if it's the lead-free solder that's fracturi
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Solder always has had tin in it (it's traditionally tin/lead alloy). But you can always http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/ [justfuckinggoogleit.com]
Here's a handy link, off the first page of Google results: http://www.rohsusa.com/ [rohsusa.com]
Quote:
Re: (Score:2)
There's little immediate evolutionary benefit in immunity to rare and/or sequestred materials, as compared with more commonly-encountered ones.
Bad news (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah, the old reverse 419 scam (Score:5, Funny)
I keep all my old electronics (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I keep all my old electronics (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
A couple of weeks ago I helped a local antique computer museam [digibarn.com] put its exhibit in storage for the winter. Even the owner was trying to get rid of some parts; he offered me a 600lb component for a Cray power supply.
Re:I keep all my old electronics (Score:5, Funny)
You're not married, are you?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, he uses a crate in his basement among all the used electronics to store his ex-wives' bodies. He figures the police won't want to search through all of the toxic junk and cobwebs to find the truth...
-b.
Re: (Score:2)
Is this really such a bad thing? (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bullshit (Score:2)
Speaking of which, yes, Penn & Teller did do an episode debunking the "landfill conspiracy". 2nd season, I think.
Most problems are political, not practical.
Re: (Score:2)
Assuming the average cellphone is one cubic inch in size (I would say mine is close to 3 cu in and its not that big), then you can fit 1728 junk cellphones in one cubic foot or about 350 thousand in 200 cubic feet. I am pretty sure there are more phones than that in the city of Chicago, much less the whole planet. Accounting the total quantity and historic size of cellphones, even an estimate of one million cubic feet for the phones th
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's kind of dumb, if only because if it were I, I'd probably lose one of the extra phones quickly. Has anyone tried to address the problem by making a phone that takes the multiple (say 2 or 3) SIM cards? One for the employer's cell service, one for personal service. It's unlikely you'll be talking on both cells at once.
-b.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
New York City produces 12,000 tons of garbage per day [earth-policy.org]. If you honestly beli
Re: (Score:2)
a quick calculation [google.ca] shows that 25 square mile area 200 feet deep would provide enough space for 464.64 cubic feet of garbage per person in the US. This means that if on average we each sent just 1 cubic foot of garbage to the landfill every week (now this is an incredibly lowball estimate, but it makes the math easier) this landfill would be filled in less than 9 years. With a little more realistic numbers (which I can't be bothered to look up) it would be filled in a matter of months.
So yeah, the GP is
Re: (Score:2)
E-Waste (Score:4, Funny)
I always wondered what happened to the spam emails after I deleted them. Now I finally know where they end up.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
--
I am going to hell for that one, ain't I?
Mandatory recycling (Score:4, Interesting)
How about deposits? (Score:4, Interesting)
Bottles Not Reusable; Refridgerators Not (Score:2)
A form? A stamp on the device itself? I suspect documenting either would be cumbersome for the recycling authority you allude to. Ensuring that such documentation is available at the time of refund would probably fall on the consumer, who probably threw the fucking form out with the box it came in. The consumer's kid could peel off the stamp.
However, the key issue is that fundemental difference between computers and disposable containers. There ar
Re: (Score:2)
Many people don't seem to yet realize that garbage collection costs a lot of money, and recycling saves them money in the end.
Re: (Score:2)
When recycling makes economic sense, it happens without such laws. Some incredibly high percentage of aluminum cans, for example, are recycled, because the production of aluminum involves a lot of expensive electricity. It's far less expensive to just melt down already-produced aluminum and recast it, which is why even before 1991's Earth Day got a lot of hippies convinced that they could save the planet you could take your empty aluminum cans down to a recycling center and get *paid* for them. They
Re: (Score:2)
Basically, the tax, perhaps a flat amount per type of item regardless of price, would be placed on the item at the first instance of sale. So if a monitor is manufactured and is sold to a Best Buy, then the fee would then have to be paid at that moment. If it is being sold wholesale to someone, then that fee would be collected then.
The fee wouldn't be based on the value of the item, but the type of item
Re: (Score:2)
This also works for old equipment which you bought without the tax. Simple system and it works.
Hrshgn
Re: (Score:2)
Trick question: I would drink myself unconsious before driving a school bus.
Re: (Score:2)
When you say reuse plastic bottles, you mean the same plastic bottles we drink out of and then toss in recycling? If so, I can tell you the reasons why it's a horrible idea to simply reuse those.
The global village's septic tank (Score:3, Informative)
Not just price... (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies should be forced to include, with your electronics purchase, two small parts likely to fail early.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, TVs and other consumer electrics may be getting more proprietary in their construction, but people are also less inclined to fix them, although examples exist that demonstrate that it is possible.
I think you're in danger of harking back to some "good old day" that never existed whilst also ignoring the fact that most people these days don't want to fix a T
Re: (Score:2)
I think you're in danger of confusing someone repairing something themselves with taking it to a repairperson. I used to get TVs repaired at a local repair place, but any TV bought in the last decade is either impossible to repair (because there are no schematics available or no parts available) or so expensive to repair that it's literally che
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Companies should be forced to include, with your electronics purchase, two small parts likely to fail early.
It's ironic, I act
Been in the shlock buying biz for 8 years now... (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Sound advice (Score:2)
Yet another good reason not to let out the magic smoke.
Often impractical (Score:3, Interesting)
A small repair shop must often gamble on which parts to purchase, and deal with incessant customer grumbling over repair costs. Here are some stories [siliconchip.com.au].
I don't take my computers to the recycling place. (Score:3, Interesting)
Environmentalism is a luxury good (Score:3, Insightful)
Incidentally, the other reason the whole "We'll take your junk if you pay us for it" works is that NIMBY-ites in rich Western democracies don't want the stuff anywhere near them, so they pay to have it dumped somewhere far out of sight. Then the same folks cluck-cluck about how we're exploiting the Third World.
VISTA should greatly increase e-waste (Score:5, Insightful)
It's really sick that modern computers have such extreme processing power relative to 20-years ago, yet we must continue to upgrade.
Re: (Score:2)
Not only that. It's sick that most of this processing power is sucked up to run bloat, in order to make transparent or shiny windows, etc. How fast does a CPU need to be to act as an internet terminal, or run a word processor, etc? The only REALLY demanding applications are games (besides the very few specialist people who run demanding science or business
Labor costs more than parts (Score:2)
The poor countries would be better off forming their own economic bloc and trading amongst themselv
Reverse Microsoft Recycle Tax? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Making Computers Durable Goods (Score:3, Insightful)
Vista's longevity has actually helped consumers I think, because it broke the whole "upgradeupgradeupgrade" mantra that had come before it and provided some real product stability. I doubt this was the original intent, but I'm glad it happened. Perhaps consumer expectations for stability and robustness can be increased, and we can start to engineer operating systems, standards, and APIs that are intended to be bulletproof and last for decades or even centuries.
India's e-recycling (Score:2, Informative)
Why are these things getting burned? (Score:2)
Commercial silver and gold deposits are measured in ounces per ton. Commercial copper stays in production at 2% and companies seem to consider a find of 0.13% worth reporting. Plastics would be a problem but then you always have tailings from a mine. Now imagine that the ore doesn't require digging, and in fact people will deliver it to you and pay you to take it.
Dump locally! (Score:2)
That way, the poluting elements stay in landfills in 1st world countries where they can be somewhat dealt with. Who knows, maybe some day someone will figure out a way to dig that stuff up, process it and get a pile of various raw materials. They were put in the electronics at some point, so they are used....
Seriou
Local dump has separate dumping area. (Score:2)
Here in Southern Arizona, I pay $9.00 to enter with a pickup truck-load of garbage.
As you enter, to the left, there is a fairly postapocalyptic-looking pile where people can dump refrigerators, stoves, and other appliances - and only those things.
There is
Re: (Score:2)
It also explains why he seems to be obsessed with female undergarments.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think they're already full of old electronics..
Re: (Score:2)
The main threat from dumping electronics is the toxic chemicals that leech out of them and into the ground water. So old computers stored in your house, so long as they are kept dry, should be harmless.