Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Hardware Hacking

Refurbishing PCs For Charity? 199

Posted by Cliff from the old-machines-and-a-good-cause dept.
Used PC Guy asks: "I'm trying to run a program to recycle PCs for charity to give to underprivileged kids. Trouble is, these kids have never seen a PC. What should I teach the kids if they're about 14-21? Should I teach Windows, Linux or both? What hardware should I be requesting, and what's the best way to test the influx of hardware that's coming in quickly, efficiently and reliably to make sure won't need servicing within another 6 months?"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Refurbishing PCs For Charity? More

Refurbishing PCs For Charity?

Comments Filter:

  • What to teach? Hah... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ShyGuy91284 ( 701108 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:20PM (#14949826)
    Depending on the availability of software, I'd stick with Windows. As much as we'd like to think Linux is going to get big as a desktop OS , it isn't definate, and will probably be a long way down the road, especially in the US. Although if for some reason you don't have the copies of windows that came with these PCs (which is likely the case), and windows-like Linux distro would probably be best. At least that's my 2 cents (as a big Linux/UNIX user).

    • Re:What to teach? Hah... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pimpimpim ( 811140 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:28PM (#14949872)
      I have a friend who didn't own a PC in the first 24 years of her life, she e-mailed a bit, but only now she started using her own PC. From what I experienced with her, mixed with eductating 11-13 year olds in general, I'd say the following:

      The operating system doesn't matter that much. Teach them how to use the internet in a responsible way, avoinding obviously dangerous websites, how to write e-mails in a matter people will appreciate, etc.

      Learn them how to use the mostly used things: word processor (a typing course would help as well), spreadsheet, even the stupid slideshow creation :) Any office suite will do, it's not that much of a difference when they got the main points.

      Learn them how to install software! How to deal with all the popups you get when installing this, it really is something you should get a hang of, and you'll need it often later on.

      Learn them to use html, make a website, get to understand the stuff that's behind it.

      And the coolest would be: learn them to program a bit! I played with LOGO when I was a kid, it really helped me later on.

    • These are going to be underpowered PCs, potentially used for years.

      This means a few things:

      0. Are they powerful enough to run XP / 2K?
      If not, then how well do you think 98 will fare over time (when is it EOL'd?)

      1. What are the people going to use them for? Web-surfing, e-mail, IM, office, etc.

      2. As the parent brought up, owning the software is going to be a requirement. That might turn out to be the most expensive aspect of the project.

      3. Is the Original Poster going to be available (via email, in perso

    • Re:What to teach? Hah... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Hosiah ( 849792 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @08:18PM (#14950094)
      I'd stick with Windows...as a big Linux/UNIX user.

      Has it come to this? I like Linux and use Linux, too. Should I rend my hair shirt, flog myself bloody, roll in mud and parade the streets on my knees to show everyone my shame? "Whatever you do, people, do not do what I do! I am a bad example!"

      Guy said it's for kids who aren't familiar with computers at all. In every case I've seen kids absorb Linux like a sponge, learn to equate later exposure to Windows and Macs with it. They just take it as a given and keep learning. Why? Because they haven't had 20 years of brainlock in Windows-Only-World.

      My daughter has no trouble at all using Linux at home and Windows at school and at the library. The only way it's affected her as far as the outside world is concerned is that she giggles and points when Windows crashes (because they're not supposed to do that) and she shakes her head in disgust when she sees that her only games are freecell/hearts/solitaire/minesweeper. Oh, wait, lemme second-guess the flame-fighters on this one: I'm abusing my children by showing them Linux, right?

      • Frankly, the availability and compatibility with most off the shelf hardware and software is squarely in the Windows camp and is a compelling reason to go that way. That is, unless all the user will do is email, office work and web browsing, they will need help with add-ons. Even simple scanner and printer compatibility might be an issue, finding Linux compatibility information is quite often a pain because it's rarely something that is put on the box. It is going to be a lot tougher to find tech support
        • Frankly, the availability and compatibility with most off the shelf hardware and software is squarely in the Windows camp and is a compelling

          Compelling unless you have to buy this software, including OS. Good luck finding donors for licences for equivalents for all the stuff that you'd get free with Ubuntu, (not to mention Automatix [ubuntuforums.org]). Any donated hardware is likely to be a year or tow old, and very likely to be supported by Linux (except perhaps for a few pathological devices like Winmodems, which can be

      • her only games are freecell/hearts/solitaire/minesweeper

        ...because that's really an edge Linux has over Windows. Games. Yeah. How long will it take until she wants to play a game that's Windows-only? Because there aren't really that many out there for Linux.
        • How long will it take until she wants to play a game that's Windows-only?

          She's *seen* games that are Windows-only. In school. They cost money. To her, they're no different. Drop in on the average Windows machine and you'll see only a few games installed; granted, each are blockbuster titles, but only a few nonetheless; they cost money and suck up hardware space and resources. Linux, you can have all the free games you want. And Linux is catching up...just because it has a long way to go, doesn't mean it w

          • Linux, you can have all the free games you want.

            There are loads of free games for Windows, too. Granted, most people prefer the so-called "blockbusters", but that doesn't mean those are all there is. And there's a whole lot of old Windows/DOS games that still run well (some even on Linux, I believe), like the Monkey Island series.
        • You're right. Last time I looked there weren't any Windows only games for Linux.
        • Well, being a mac user, I've never suffered for want of games, and I'm sure the same carries over to Windows. All you have to do is be creative. For starters, there are addictive web-based games like Neopets or Nationstates that have no platform requirements. Then I imagine you could get something like Ur-Quan Masters or LinCity. Then hopefully pearpc and WINE'll get you somewhere. I mean pearpc could run most early Ambrosia games I bet, which is months of entertainment in and of itself, at low process
      • But your daughter also has a parent knowledgable about Linux that can help her out when something new comes along. While these kids could certainly be taught to use Linux, I don't think any such charity wants to get dragged into "Tech Support" when no one ELSE knows how to fix problems that crop up, especially on a scale where potentially hundreds of people might be getting these PCs. On Windows, there may be more problems, but the number of people able to potentially assist in fixing a problem sky-rocket
      • Very true! Old-timers who started on CP/M etc. had this first reaction to MS/DOS: "It isn't quite right". The syntax and command names were almost the same, but not quite. What we already knew was "right", and anything else was "wrong". The same applies to Windows vs. any older version of Windows vs. Mac OS vs. unix x-terminals vs. Gnome vs. KDE...you get the idea. What you learned first is imprinted in your bain as "the way it's supposed to be"; anything that makes you deviate from what you "know" to be ri
      • When refurbishing computers to give away or sell at very low prices, you make the most cost efficient choice possible. If the computer already has a windows licence, then install open office, firefox and thunderbird on it and away you go, just remember to do all the required patching and updating and make sure all your documentation is up to date and accurate in order to avoid an audit and a possible criminal conviction as a software pirate. If your computers do not have all the required information to pass
      • I'm abusing my children by showing them Linux, right?

        Yes.

        (You must be new here).

    • Teach them? Ha! They'll figure out how to find teh pr0n themselves.

    • Re:What to teach? Hah... (Score:3, Informative)

      by hazem ( 472289 )
      The problem with windows on refurb. computers is that you might not be entitled to the license that originally came with it.

      There is a company here in Portland called Free Geek http://www.freegeek.org/ [freegeek.org] that recycles computers and electronic components. The refined their own version of linux to make a quite useable machine. Most of them are donated to charities, and not kids, but my understanding is that the people who receive them have little trouble using them.

      There's nothing magic about Windows and Offi
      • It's a common misconception, but you do not need a licence from Microsoft to run Windows. The Law of the Land {in the US and the UK at least} already gives you permission to do that: as long as you acquired Windows legitimately, the right to make a copy of the program in memory for the purpose of execution is part of your right of fair dealing / fair use. The Law also gives you the right to transfer your copy of Windows to another person: that would come under exhaustion of rights / first sale doctrin
  • If any donated Pentium 3 machines come in with Win 98 and at least 6 gigabytes of RAM, how about dual booting them with Windows 98 using 2 gigs and Unbuntu on the remainder. And if they're older machines, keep in mind Ubuntu Lite (haven't tried the lite version yet myself but plan to in the next few days).
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingUbuntuLite [ubuntu.com]
    http://www.ubuntulite.org/ [ubuntulite.org]
    • If any donated Pentium 3 machines come in with Win 98 and at least 6 gigabytes of RAM

      I would love to see a PIII with 6GB of RAM. Such an extreme amount of RAM would make me wonder how large of a hard drive was sold with it.
    • Heh, I think you mean 6 gigabytes of hard drive space, but you've got a point. (Though I'd probably go with MEPIS.) Even with a boot menu that would automatically boot into windows after a few seconds, giving the option of booting into a nice linux distro would be both educational and useful. I can't see any flaws in providing this for any charity PC.

  • Deepfreeze (Score:4, Insightful)

    by students ( 763488 ) * on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:26PM (#14949862) Journal
    Use some sort of software that erases everything every time the computer reboots - like deepfreeze. Then instruct the users to save everything to a seperate partition. That way, you won't have to do as much security support work. If they really haven't used a computer before, they won't know what they're missing. This can increase the number of computers you can support a lot.
    • Why not just run the OS from a non-writable medium like a CD? Knoppix is much more economical then a commericial solution like deepfreeze.

  • FreeGeek leads the way (Score:5, Informative)

    by Noodlenose ( 537591 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:30PM (#14949887) Homepage Journal
    Instead of doing this alone, why not hook up with FreeGeek [freegeek.org], who are operating an excellent organisation with exactly your goals.

    It's easier when you're showing strength in numbers, you know. One man outfits just don't have the same credibility.

    • Problem is, they seem to be local to Oregon. Leastways, their site says: "How do I start? Come in for a tour to get an overall sense of the organization and so you can ask questions."

      A FreeGeek-type organization that wasn't geo-specific would be slick.

      • There are also Free Geeks in:
        Olympia, Washington
        Columbus, Ohio
        Chicago, Illinois
        Michiniana (Michigan/Indiana area)
        Pennsylvania

        Although all of them are less operational than Portland, though. But Portland is very very operational.

  • Linux (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Beuno ( 740018 ) <argentinaNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:30PM (#14949888) Homepage
    I guess if these people never used a PC before, they shouldn't have a bug learning curve to adapt to Linux since they don't have a lot of pre-concived ideas of how things should work.
    It wouldn't be a bad idea to get them working with Linux for much better performance on old hardware with a user-friendly distro like Ubuntu or Linspire. You would also be helping to get Linux on to the mainstream public, which I believe the $100 Laptop program from MIT [mit.edu] will do.

  • Oddly enough... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Donniedarkness ( 895066 ) <Donniedarkness@g ... BSDcom minus bsd> on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:32PM (#14949894) Homepage
    I'd suggest Windows, simply because that's probably what the kids are used to. Warning: anytime I've donated a computer somewhere (senior centers, other places), the place has called me at the slightest problem, including things like "We can't find a place to plug this printer in" when the printer used a USB cable, and the comp was an old Win98 machine w/o USB ports....and it doesn't stop there-- games not running correctly (they were trying to install Mac games on a Windows machine).

    Yes, this was annoying with Windows... but it scares me to think about how often I would have been called if I would have given them a Linux machine.

  • Let demands and resources determine what you teach (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:33PM (#14949902)
    I spent about 2 years trying to teach computer skills to kids and adults in a developing nation, and I learned a few things about this kind of work.

    If licensing is available (or doesn't concern you), you may as well start by teaching Windows, at least for basic mouse and keyboarding skills. You'll probably have inconsistant hardware in your systems, but as much as I hate to admit it, Windows makes it easier to present a consistant interface.

    Once the kids learn a little about computer basics, you can start teaching them some more advanced skills. This is where you can turn your problems on their side... You'll probably quickly accumulate piles of unusable components, but these can be valuable teaching materials, since you can use them to show the kids what's inside the computer. As they learn more, you can get the kids to help you test, assemble, and repair more systems.

    If you can teach the kids to do your work (requesting donations, testing, building, repairing, and teaching), then your project will be successful and sustainable.

    I wasn't able to teach all the students how to build computers (we didn't have enough 'junk' components to try that), but I did get them to go from no computer experience to making simple webpages (using only notepad) and useful spreadsheets.

    A few more tips:
    1) Observe what the kids do and adjust what you teach accordingly, especially to avoid time sinks (Word, with all its clipart, wordart, and fonts proved to be a big waste of time).
    2) Try to find innovative ways to teach file management. This is not intuitively obvious to most kids, but it is important, and can get to be a problem when they start producing hundreds of documents
    3) Internet / WWW are probably more trouble than they're worth.
    4) Ban floppy disks
    5) If you don't have a LAN, a USB Flash drive and some simple scripts can be good for quickly copying materials to each machine.

  • linux linux linux (Score:2, Interesting)

    by vga_init ( 589198 )
    Just give them linux.

    Yes, Windows is more popular. Linux will give the kids a harder time, and they will be disappointed that they can't run all the software that they expected. However, it will be a learning experience for them. Some families will take it off right away and replace it with Windows, but others will stick with linux. Those kids might get exposed to software that will inspire them to learn more about computers and study them later in life. It's very difficult to learn about computers wh

    • What if not everyone wants to learn about computers? What about the kids who just want to write--start a blog, say--or fire up a paint program and teach themselves graphic design?

      "Sure, kid, GIMP sucks for painting, but at least you'll learn about computers!"

      That's a formula for turning proto-Rothkos into Charles Mansons.
      • Sure, kid, GIMP sucks for painting, but at least you'll learn about computers!

        "Sucks"? It's got a paintbrush tool, a palette, an eraser, lots of filters. It's more than adequate for a beginner. If someone absolutely postively must have PhotoShop they can save up for a month and buy it, and get a MacMini thrown in.

        • OK, but that wasn't really my point. If it helps: s/GIMP/open-source software/, s/sucks/difficult to get help with/, s/painting/creative right-brained pursuits/.
          • OK, but that wasn't really my point.

            My point was that to get anything substantially "better" than open source applications, at least in useability, you have to spend serious money. s/sucks/difficult to get help with/

            True, online help or manuals in general for open source are incomplete and incomprehensible. But there is usually an O'Reilly, and lots of forums and newsgroups. For professional use you may be well advised to use one of the big name commerical apps, just so people take you seriously, but w

    • Re:linux linux linux (Score:2, Insightful)

      by westlake ( 615356 )
      Linux will give the kids a harder time, and they will be disappointed that they can't run all the software that they expected. However, it will be a learning experience for them.

      The worst possible answer.

      These kids have had all the "learning experiences" they can stand. If Windows is everywhere in their lives but on these donor PCs, you are headed for trouble.

      The lone iMac donated to our village library is mounted low and is perfectly placed by the children's section, where it simply gathers dust.

      The k

    • PICNIC? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BobPaul ( 710574 ) *
      I know this because I was raised with Windows and came away from it with almost nothing.

      I don't think it was the computer's fault you ended up with nothing. There's a lot of ugly internals to the Windows OS, and if you came away with nothing, that's completely because you weren't trying hard enough. People don't learn "much of anything" because they are uninterested. This will happen whether you give them Windows, Linux, MacOS or OS/360: users will learn what they need to in order to do what they want to an
  • I'd say what you'd want to teach the kids is a mix of the pratical and useful softwares, things that are necessary, yet with the budget in mind.

    I'd say stick with Windows XP, as Windows is still the most prevelant OS and will be the most useful, generally, in terms of getting a job or even extending education farther later. You can use Open Office to teach the basics of Word Processing, Internet Explorer for teaching Web usage, and Windows is a fine platform for learning a little basic networking even. Ev

  • The most important thing... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pomo monster ( 873962 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:37PM (#14949925)
    ...if you want to help economically disadvantaged people--be they in Appalachia, Detroit, central Africa, or the West Bank--is to give them the tools they need to integrate into wider society.

    With that in mind, and assuming you're targeting first two of the above: I'd give them Windows. Make sure they know how to word process in Wordpad, and, crucially, how to use email and IM. The rest will come on its own. Kids are naturally curious, and don't usually need much encouragement to explore the internet and start creating profiles on MySpace or what have you. Indulge them.

    (Incidentally, that's also why a $100 cellphone would be a much better use of resources than MIT's $100 laptop, but I digress.)

  • Go with Windows... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Aphrika ( 756248 )
    These kids have never seen a computer, then it's best to get them familiar with what 90% of the planet uses, regardless of your own viewpoint. That way you're giving them a headstart on the way to getting useable computer knowledge that will enable them to at least get a job using a PC with Windows and Word on it...

    Linux and Macs have to be decision that's made on a personal level, because they are in the minority. If one of these kids turns round and says to you "you taught us in Linux, why the hell didn'
    • What computer skills do you miss out on by going with Linux instead of Windows?

      Dealing with Clippy?

      Using Microsoft Office? Oh, wait, can't afford that anyway with these computers. Open Office is close enough.

      Point and click? Linux has that too.

      The fact is, 95% of skills that computer USERS need, completely overlap in any platform. Word processing, spreadsheets, web development - all the same basically for the typical user. The one thing that might be confusing is instead of "/home/me/desktop", they hav
      • yeah unfortunately linux has problems with certain hardware types

        off the bat theese are
        3D graphics
        Software modems (winmodems)
        Wireless NICs

        of those the second one is likely to be a big problem if using donated computers and trying to get them on the net with linux over dialup. hardware modems are pretty expensive.

        Sure there are drivers availible but they are generally not Free (as in GPL) and sometimes not free (as in beer). and they can require considerable extra setup work.
    • giving them a headstart on the way to getting useable computer knowledge

      All my friends have Windows PCs, most of them use it for 1) Email 2) Word processing 3) Web browsing 4) P2P. All of which can be done on Linux, OSX, or WinXP with the only discernible difference being the symbol and location of the button to start each application. The only computer skill that will stand people in good stead is learning to touch type, and that's also OS-agnostic. If you can use Linux, you can use anything, just becau

    • Many of the MS apologists posting here are forgetting that the original post is asking about refurbishing PCs for use in charity. While there are many other reasons why Windows and MS products would be undesirable in this context and many pedagogical reasons why it is not necessary or not relevant, the bottom line is that nowadays Windows licenses are not transferable:

      Let's refine that. Some are transferable. Some aren't. But without a lot of leg work investigating the provenance of the software and

  • Why spend money on software? (Score:4, Informative)

    by KingJoshi ( 615691 ) <slashdot@joshi.tk> on Saturday March 18, 2006 @07:51PM (#14949980) Homepage
    If you have the money, why spend it on software? Spend the money on good broadband connection and networking the computers. If you have all that, spend it on books that you can keep in the place and possibly loan out so they can read some thing on their own.

    My suggestion would be to use Ubuntu. And when you show them software, show them cross-platform solutions. Firefox/Opera, Thunderbird or some webmail, Gaim, Gimp, OpenOffice.org2.

    I mean, that's the crux of learning computers. Typing documents and emails. Sending IMs to stay connected. Looking up stuff online for learning, entertainment and procrastination.

    My brother has a scanner and he lost the drivers for it. It was a pain to find them online. For me, with Ubuntu, it worked without any setting up. I was surprised. If you're getting hardware that you might not have the driver CD for, Linux really is much better at support (unless you can hunt down the drivers online).

    But the main thing is, people are capable of learning if you have faith in them and put in effort and create a good atmosphere. If you dumb everything down too much, then they'll learn less. But if you expect more, they'll surpise you. Don't be afraid to teach them about the hardware a little bit and the network. They might not fully grasp everything, but they'll be a little better off. And you'll be able to spot the smarter ones who'll be more motivated to learn.

  • Two problems... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Vellmont ( 569020 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @08:13PM (#14950065) Homepage
    Really I think you're going to have two problems. The first is simply getting machines with ancient (windows 95/98/ME) operating systems on them. Getting legal modern Windows operating systems is either going to be expensive, or the hardware you have simply won't run it. (Driver issues, low memory, etc). Honestly I'd really avoid going down the route of using any Windows OS before Windows 2000. 95/98/ME are really dinosaurs these days, and no one should be giving away machines with them on it.

    So, while other people are telling you to run Windows because it's standard and it's what kids will encounter, I'm going to tell you to run Linux because it's cheap, will support most of the hardware, has drivers built in that will auto-detect, etc. Ultimately you really want to only be supporting one operating system. The best OS for that job is going to be Linux. It's really no fun trying to hunt down what video card each of the 10 different machines you have sitting around.

    Honestly for kids 14-21 the OS doesn't really matter for what they should be using the machine for. I assume that's schoolwork, research, etc. You might get some complaints that game X or special software package Y doesn't run on the computer, but that sounds pretty minor. They'll be able to figure out Windows computers once they've used linux, so I don't see many problems of converting if that ever became an issue. Computers are ultimately a tool, and unless you're going to be a tool-maker or tool-supporter, the choice of the tool doesn't really matter. To make an analogy just get them familiar with using hammers, screwdrivers, and saws and don't worry about which brand it is.

    The second problem is getting broken hardware. There's a few things that can help you here. I'd first look at memtest86 to test the memory. Let it run for a few hours and see if there's errors. Secondly I'd run some CPU thrashing tests. Many people seem to like Prime95 from mersenne.org, and run the torture test. Other programs like the distributed.net client will also stress the CPU. Finally I'd get familiar with smartctl on linux. This program will access the SMART monitoring that's built into hard drives made in the last 5 or 6 years. From this you can tell if the HD is junk, or soon to be junk.

    You're going to get a lot of Junk. And by junk I mean computers with 64 megs of ram and a 233 megahertz processor. It's hard to tell you where the line exists, since I don't know what kids are going to do with these computers. Cannabalize components, but don't be afraid to just throw stuff out, or maybe turn these components into a class where kids get to "build their own computer".

    • Re:Two problems... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Glonoinha ( 587375 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @10:30PM (#14950499) Journal
      I don't know about you, but I got over 10 years worth of hardcore computer experience, some of it paid, some of it educational, and some of it gaming - on machines that didn't have 233MHz in TOTAL - two machines at 1MHz apiece, a 4.77MHz machine that I only had part time access to, a 16MHz machine of my own that I loved, and a 40MHz machine that I later upgraded to 133MHz. Got a four year degree in software engineering at a university in the process, as well as working my first real paid job as a newbie software engineer and newbie network admin. I learned to program in like six different languages (Pascal, C, Basic, Assembler, pseudo SQL (dBase / Foxpro) dabbled a bit with Fortran, COBOL, Ada), learned to network computers via ARCnet, Ethernet for Novell Netware (several versions), learned the concepts of structured programming, several software design methodologies, concepts behind computer graphics, audio, user interface design, and played about 5000 hours of games - all on machines that didn't have 233MHz or 64M of RAM if you added up the processor speeds and memory of every machine I had through that entire decade, and all on machines with 640x480 or less of resolution (most of them had much less) - and no Windows 2000.

      If the intent is to provide kids an opportunity to play the latest games and run the latest software, then a 233MHz box with 64M of RAM isn't going to cut it.
      If the intent is to provide kids an opportunity to experience and learn 'computer science' aka operating systems, networking, database, programming languages and software development theory, then 233MHz with 64M and an 8M video card and 14" SVGA CRT is ~plenty~ of horsepower. And probably free, too. Computer science isn't all surfing the web, Instant Messenger, MP3z and Doom III. I'd wager that about 80% of all the software engineering knowledge on the planet could be learned and used on a monochrome (amber or green) display. There is a world of difference between keeping a kid busy on a Windows XP machine with multimedia and the Internet, and teaching him the fundamentals of computer science.

      Approach it from this perspective and the actual OS is a lot less important, all things considered.
      Load "*",8,1

      I agree with you on the hassle of broken hardware though - maybe what they need to do is have the kids amass like a ton of machines, go through each one and break it down into components (video cards, hard drives, sound cards, memory, keep the case/ps/mobo/cpu as complete units, etc), catalog it, build a few test boxes to pop the different components into to sort the working parts from the broken parts. Actually, the nice thing about older hardware is that the points of failure are real easy to identify : dead hard drives don't respond, power supplies that don't power up a box, CPUs with dead fans - anything else would probably be ok (most of the time) and have them build their own boxes from the parts boxes, hand picking parts. That way, they learn how to trouble shoot their own machine and will be able to identify issues in the future and fix them, not be intimidated and be comfortable going in to fix (or upgrade) their box in the future. Walk them through installing the OS a few times with different OS's and a wipe/reinstall won't intimidate them either.

  • Do the right thing and use Linux (Score:3, Informative)

    by martinultima ( 832468 ) <martinultima@gmail.com> on Saturday March 18, 2006 @08:30PM (#14950147) Homepage Journal
    Despite what a lot of other posters have mentioned, I'd have to say that Linux would be the best choice. As a distribution maintainer myself, I get a lot of e-mails from users – and a lot of it isn't just the usual support stuff, a good deal of the mail I get is from ordinary people who decided to switch to Linux (and my distro was the first one).

    I may be a bit biased on this, but I'd have to say the only real problem is typically the installation. After that, it's a snap. If the machines have enough horsepower – for my own distro, a Pentium-233 with 96MB can handle KDE, Firefox, and OpenOffice.org rather nicely – I'd say stick on KDE, create a default user account and make it auto-login, assign a strong root password – but tell them what it is! – and maybe set up some shortcuts on the desktop to any apps they may use. Problem solved!

    I'd have to say that everyone in my family seems to like my distro too. Even my parents. Which may sound sort of stupid and obvious, but not really – I had to fight tooth and nail to get them to try Linux out! They just did not want to give up Windows, at all! But as soon as they saw it, they were hooked too...

    But one quick suggestion – if you have to teach them on Windows, please, do yourself (and them) a favor and DON'T USE INTERNET EXPLORER. I'm obviously no expert on psychology, but I've noticed that most people, once they find something they like, generally don't want to switch off to something better unless it's forced upon them. So if you get them used to using an insecure, non-standard browser such as Explorer, it will likely serve you right when you can't convince them to try Firefox because of the unpatched security vulnerability du jour in IE.

  • Don't forget to donate an internet connection (Score:3, Insightful)

    by foniksonik ( 573572 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @08:40PM (#14950183) Homepage Journal
    Those kids won't ever use the machine unless there's internet... fact is for most people the PC is nothing but an internet appliance, not that it's bad... lot of info on the internet.

    also... you will be surprised to find that most of these kids have probably used a computer at the library or school.. so don't assume they know nothing about them...

    Something you might consider doing is donating a few hours a week to go and teach them how to build the PC themselves, with donated parts... give a man fish, you know the rest... and they'll have a lot more fun and a lot more respect for the machines when they've put them together themselves.

  • Junk is junk (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rueger ( 210566 )
    Remember that charities and non-profit groups have the same needs as any other business.

    Consequently don't waste their time trying to give them ancient or underpowered computers, and don't consider anything but Windows.

    Most charities that accept donations of computer equipment are accustomed to saying "no" to well meaning people that try to unload stuff that would be better used as boat anchors.

    Ten years ago it made sense for groups to source used PCs, and many groups offered that kind of service. When new

    • Re:Junk is junk (Score:3, Interesting)

      by aethera ( 248722 )
      Right On

      I work for a larger 501(c)3 here in Lexington. We have a paid staff of around 20, plus probably about that same amount in full-time volunteers, plus are non-regulars and court-ordered help. Even our Resale store (a fundraising source) won't accept anything older than a P3. We are trying to get a electronics recycling dumpster to handle all the rest. Now we try to give away all those boat anchors we still seem to get stuck with. That being said, I know of at least two pcs currently in use that have a

  • To address all the anti-Linux FUD: (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Hosiah ( 849792 ) on Saturday March 18, 2006 @08:44PM (#14950198)
    Nobody over the age of ten will admit this, and it's not even their fault; they're simply mind-locked from twenty years of Windows-serfdom. But teach a kid Linux first, then take them to the Windows PC.

    Show them that instead of Firefox, they have IE, or they can download Firefox for Windows. Show them they have Paintbrush instead of Gimp, but they can download Gimp for Windows or buy Photoshop. Show them they have Outlook instead of Thunderbird, but etc... Show them they have Notepad or Word instead of the 50-some editors in Linux. Show them they have freecell-hearts-minesweeper-solitaire instead of the 50-some games on Linux. Be sure to point out that they can no longer switch to alternate virtual desktops, have their pick of ten different window managers, or have all the software they want for it free. Teach them the new keyboard combination "Ctrl-Alt-Del", and remind them that they have to pay attention to virus reports now, because they apply to them.

    Of course with my kids, nobody did this with them. They just saw and learned Linux at home, saw and learned Windows at school, and took it to be the natural order of things. Young minds are open; let's not spoil it. They'll be old and mean and dumb just like we grownups soon enough.

    • My son uses Linux and loves the scores of games that come with SUSE. And not only games, but other great and free programs like Inkscape for making art and posters or editing postscript and pdf files, or Blender for making 3d models.

      Every M$ program that I want him to run now works well with wine (though that may take a little setting up on your part when you install for the kids so it works automatically).

      The parent post is very right. Give kids a new toy to play with and they will take to it. When my

  • Games! (Score:2)

    by mnmn ( 145599 )
    Put a few games on the computer. Let them see the game being played at least once.

    Then let THEM learn the ins and outs of the computer, learn to install OSes and fixup games. Do NOT underestimate the power of games teaching kids how to fix the computer. Most people improve their typing by yakking on MSN messenger (and previously IRC). They dont open the typing tutorial book an hour each day. Similarly many slashdot readers started out trying to just fix the computer to play the damn games. No need to goto c
    • Most people improve their typing by yakking on MSN messenger

      W0oT!!!11 U R s0 rit! 1 lern typ n MSN n 1 cn rit rel gd nw!

  • I applaud your effort, and wish you all the best. Now, what hardware should you be requesting? Take the best you can get, and set a cut-off for what you won't take.

    I've seen people try to unload a PS/2 they found in storage. Figure you should to be looking at upper P-II's, and P-III's, and some earlier Athlons. Try for the range between 500-1000MHz. Anything before then is likely to have even more issues with lifespan than it's worth. Ideally, you want at least 256MB of RAM, and 6-10GB hard drives,

  • As the most "techie" teacher (this was about 7 years back) I was responsible for helping "check out" PCs and other computer equipment donated to our school. It was a real pain, and I can offer some suggestions on how to help sort out hardware.

    First, set some minimum quality that you're willing to support. At this point you're unlikely to get any DX2/66MHz machines, but you never know. If you know what OS you'll be running (and how fast the machines need to be to seem useful) then use that to help you decide

  • Don't know if it's exactly (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DoraLives ( 622001 ) on Sunday March 19, 2006 @12:26AM (#14950781)
    what you're talking about, but there's an obscure little book out there called Free Computers that may be of some use as a guide for your newbie folks. It's out of date, and covers W98 for the most part, but it has some interesting things in it.

    Find it here. [paladin-press.com]

  • Something to remember about using Windows (Score:5, Informative)

    by Glowing Fish ( 155236 ) on Sunday March 19, 2006 @01:11AM (#14950905) Homepage
    At Free Geek, we use Linux. And when people ask me why, I usually end up defending Microsoft.

    I know that people pirate and copy Microsoft products all the time. And at many levels this is kind of done with a wink wink nudge nudge by everyone involved, including probably Microsoft themselves.

    However, when you are running an organization, and you are producing computers, people can start asking questions. Which means, if you are installing Windows, make sure it is legal! If you are churning out lots of computers with pirated Windows, you will probably get caught. It doesn't matter if it is for charity.

    Now, that does mean that you will be paying 200 dollars a license, and 400 dollars for a license of Office. This means that if you wanted to give out, say, ten computers with Windows XP Home Edition and Office Standard Edition, you would be paying 6000 dollars.

    At Free Geek, aside from any philosophical ideas, we can't afford to spend 6000-10000 dollars a week on licenses for computers we are giving out.

  • Check out the local colleges (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Will2k_is_here ( 675262 ) on Sunday March 19, 2006 @01:42AM (#14950966)
    Check out what the local community colleges are emphasizing in their course curriculum and tailor your lessons for them in this way.

    Encourage the kids to develop an interest in this stuff. Then, when the time comes, encourage the older teens to apply for IT programs at a local college and earn a degree in that field and make computers a career. So if they see that local college X does courses in web design, and you already taught them web design, they be very willing to make a career out of it. This might be a goal that seems feasible to them and this should prepare them to live a stable life in the future which they haven't experienced before.

  • Suggestion for junk (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AeiwiMaster ( 20560 ) on Sunday March 19, 2006 @03:02AM (#14951108)
    Hi

    Many have pointed out that you would get a lot of junk computers.

    I suggest that you take the fast computers and connect them in a mosix cluster
    and then use the slow ones as xterminals.
  • What are you people smoking? Seriously, Microsoft won't even give away their software to 3rd-world countries, let alone to anyone in the U.S.A.!

    What, you want to pay the licensing costs for _every_single_machine_ you give away? How many more machines could you afford to refurbish and give away with the money you'd spend for legit Windows licenses? How many hours of internet access would it pay for?

    If the people that end up with these machines *need* Windows, let them get it for themselves, as a school or em

  • Get in touch with Free Geek [freegeek.org] of Portland, Oregon. They've been doing this kind of thing for years.

    The Free Geek model is to acquire older computers by donation, many from corporations, city governments and so forth, then refurbish them. The donators can claim a tax credit and have the assurance that no data will survive the hard disk wiping, reformatting, and testing process. Volunteers are used in stripping the incoming machines down to the component level, testing all the boards, CPUs, etc separately, th

  • Work with what you have (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thesnarky1 ( 846799 ) on Sunday March 19, 2006 @04:22AM (#14951232) Homepage
    I go to a major state university. I was in charge of one of the website of one of the dorms. I also was in charge of buying/setting up a new computer, so we could do web design. I replaced a second generation pentium and 32 MB RAM with a brand new (cheapest we could find that I would accept) system. Question was, what to do with the old system? Apparently there was some law that all old systems *must* be donated to charity. All well and good, but how is a charity going to use it? Windows 98 SE was taxing it! What a charity is going to do is throw XP on there, and then wonder why it's so slow. No help to no one.

    So, how does that cute, yet not too melancholy story relate to this? You're going to have to make do with what you get/can get. You might not be able to choose something you won't have to service in 6 months. You might not be able to use the newest OS. When it comes down to upgrading the systems you get (mobo/proc and RAM, and don't forget the license for Windows) in order to run XP, and getting more systems to reach more people, you'll have to make that decision. Personally, I would use Linux (pick your favorite distro) on older boxes. If they're really old, have it boot to a console, and use it for more "advanced" kids. There's always someone who'll take to it, and want to learn more. We all had that first computer experience, and I'm willing to bet most weren't on a brand new machine. So, they can work on a console, and consider it a challenge. For the... lets say, less computer savvy, you give them the newer systems with a full GUI.

    I can't stress enough that a console Linux box, or even just a smaller window manager (fluxbox, etc) makes an old slow system into something new. I think that's your best bet in terms of getting the most systems, cheapest, but the trade off is having things that aren't as visually appealing.

    On the other hand, if you want to teach Windows I'd reccomend getting as old a version as you can, that will maximize the computers power. If it's only got 256 MB RAMI guess what this long, late-night ramble is getting to is this. There's no hard and fast. You can request whatever you want, but you'll end up having to make do with what you get. And to that end, it'll be up to you whether you can afford to upgrade another system in hopes of getting XP (remember, pay for the license) on there, or use a Linux version that is appropriate. If these kids haven't used a computer before, no matter what you teach them, they'll learn, so don't be biased against Linux, simply because of look. And in the end, the learning is up to them. You might talk with the student, find out the interests, and from that make the call of which system to give, with which OS (if you have the luxary of having 5-10 different machines in at one time).

  • from an operational point of view windows is probablly better if you never plan to see theese pcs again but linux may be easier if you have to manage it yourself.

    then theres the licensing issue, if you use the original windows licenses they will all be runnning different versions with all the support fun that will bring. Theres also the issue that many machines are likely to be lacking media/licenses. Relicensing all the machines is liable to get expensive fast
  • Look at the licencing fees that must be paid to M$ for every product you use which is generally sent out of your community to retail and M$ head offices.
    With linux,OpenOffice,Gimp and other FOSS the money otherwise sent out of town is kept in your community and can be spent on things that build local companies.

Slashdot Top Deals

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

Close