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Power Government Politics Science

Bush Administration to Support Nuclear Recycling 169

Ironsides writes "The Washington Post is reporting the the Bush Administration is planning to re-enrich spent nuclear fuel so that it can once again be used in nuclear reactors. Included in the plan is a proposal to take spent fuel from other countries and re-enrich it for use as well as domestic spent fuel. This would be a break with a policy set forth by President Carter in an attempt to discourage nuclear proliferation. Currently $250 Million as been proposed for FY 2007 to start developing the technology."
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Bush Administration to Support Nuclear Recycling

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  • White House (Score:5, Funny)

    by lawrenqj ( 782546 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @12:53PM (#14569793)
    I still like the idea of burying it under the white house...
    • I still like the idea of burying it under the white house..

      No way! Can you imagine what will happen if we get a radioactivity-fed BushZilla? :-S
    • I think they have it worked out already:

      1. Start war with foreign country
      2. Go to said country
      3. Destroy everything with depleted uranium rounds
      4. Go to 1.
    • Not a bad idea, this would enforce the 2 term limit.

      No more dictators in the white house...
  • by Thud457 ( 234763 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @12:55PM (#14569812) Homepage Journal
    Just build a proper breeder reactor program, you stupid nancies!
    • by argosian ( 905196 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @02:16PM (#14570919)
      Exactly!
      Our current methods for nuclear generation and the treatment/disposal of spent nuclear fuels is short-sighted, wasteful and environmentally irresponsible. Anti "nook-yoo-ler" sentiment aside, nuclear generation is potentially far safer and far less environmentally devastating than fossil fuel generation. IANANE, but I'm at least moderately conversant for a lay-person and it seems to me that there are numerous options, including various types of 3rd and 4th generation breeder/fast reactors, that will result in greater safety (the Integral Fast Reactor design is virtually melt-down proof), less waste (virtually zero transuranics and actinides ever leave some types), higher output, higher fuel efficiency (from about 1% in current thermal reactor designs up to 95%+ for IFR and some other types) and significantly reduced expense (there is at least one lead-cooled design that is intended to be a turnkey operation for small-grid/developing country type deployments, requiring very little maintenance and with a 15-20 year refueling interval)

      There was an interesting article on this subject in the December Scientific American and wikipedia( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reactor [wikipedia.org] )has numerous articles, if you want a quick rundown on the operation, advantages and disadvantages of various designs.

      Large-scale transition to safe, efficient, modern reactors could break the stanglehold that the #@$&ing oil companies and OPEC (Organized Petroleum Extortion Cartel) have on the energy market and, by extension, on much of the world's economy. Further, introducing smaller, inexpensive, self-contained designs could go a long way toward elevating living standards in much of the developing world.
    • Just build a proper breeder reactor program, you stupid nancies!
      You mean like Superphoenix? The simple answer gets complex when it hits reality. Handling hazardous materials by remote control was far more expensive than was expected - which has caused the shutdown of a few fast breeder programs (as well as polical pressure from the USA in the case of the Japanese program).
  • Makes sense (Score:3, Insightful)

    by lilmouse ( 310335 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @12:59PM (#14569865)
    This fits in with Bush's disregard for the dangers of Nuclear Power (which are there, however big one thinks they are), and even demonstrates he has a basic understanding that oil won't last forever. Of course, conservation would never cross his mind - we must find a way to consume more :-/ Sorry - too easy to rant here!

    It does a lot of things:

    1. We have control over all this wonderful nuclear stuff.

    2. Encourages more Nuculear power.

    3. Reduces our dependence on foreign oil.

    4. Hey - we're recyling!

    --LWM
    • Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:11PM (#14570019)
      the dangers of Nuclear Power (which are there, however big one thinks they are)

      I don't think anybody argues that nuclear power isn't dangerous. Only that modern nuclear power technologies are less dangerous than our current fuel of choice: Coal.
      • Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Informative)

        by Acy James Stapp ( 1005 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:14PM (#14570072)
        Hell Yeah. Coal puts far more radioactives *into the air* than nuclear produces in a compact, easily stored form. Americans living near coal plants are exposed to *more* radiation than those living near nuclear plants. For a good summary, see
        http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/ colmain.html [ornl.gov]

        Acy
        • Re:Makes sense (Score:2, Insightful)

          It's not a problem of putting out radioactive material into the environment so much as the dangers involved with storing and handling the highly-concentrated stuff we get from nucear power.
          If you can be sure that the waste will be stored with care at proper facilities with no leakage problems, then there's not much of a problem.
          But as long as there are kilograms of waste "disappearing" from these facilities all the time, I'd opt for coal anyday.

          Even if the risks are small, a largescale accident would have h
          • Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @03:35PM (#14572129) Homepage Journal
            Even if the risks are small, a largescale accident would have huge impact and could make huge areas uninhabitable for decades.

            Like what various purely chemical disasters have done? All of the various superfund sites?

            Truth is, nuclear power would need several accidents on that scale to even catch up with coal.

            "What if" is generally all I hear out of those who oppose nuclear power. My first thought is generally "Stop being a luddite and examine the evidence".

            For example, look at Bush's decision. We're going to spend some money, and rather than mine more radioactive materials, we're going to take it out of the storage pools and recycle it into more fuel, thus reducing the amount of hazardous stuff around. And we get nice clean power out of it!
        • Re:Makes sense (Score:2, Informative)

          Not only that, but if they are using the reprocessing technology I think they are, they will be reducing dangerous nuclear waste in the process. The Dec 2005 issue of Sci Am discussed a fast reactor type similar to what is alluded to in the article linked to the main article. This reactor would "burn" all the Uranium, Plutonium and Thorium, leaving waste that only lasts about 300 years instead of 10s of thousands of years, like trace Plutonium left in today's reactor products. Imagine, disposing of nucle
        • And besides that, the radioactive material we spew into the air, if used as nuclear fuel, would actually provide more energy output than burning the coal! It's all bad.
        • Hell Yeah. Coal puts far more radioactives *into the air*

          The dodgy paper on ORNL surfaces once again - if there was more to it then nuclear advocates would have more than one paper on the subject to refer to.

          First consider that pollution control equipment is designed to get even gasses like NOx and SOx - so what do you think happens to dust as the exhaust goes through scrubbers, electrostatic precipitators or even bag filters?

          Second, consider that the coal described in the paper is not typical and then the

    • Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@ g m a i l . com> on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:16PM (#14570095) Homepage Journal
      This fits in with Bush's disregard for the dangers of Nuclear Power (which are there, however big one thinks they are)

      This fits with the man-on-the-street's poor understanding of nuclear dangers (of which they are overstated, no matter which way you try to twist it), and even demonstrates that the parent poster has been watching too many movies.

      The truth of the matter is simple: Nuclear power is one of the safest options on the planet. Coal (of which America burns a LOT of) spews radioactive nuclear contamination all across our cities and country-side, yet everyone is worried about the tiny amounts of nuclear waste which are (all things considered) quite safe. The problem is that the media has played up the whole "Radiation == EVIL" to such a degree that the populace is scared stiff at the very idea. If they had it their way, nuclear materials wouldn't even be kept on this planet.

      Yet these same materials happen to exist in your backyard, your body, your car, your house, and millions of other locations all around you! As long as the spent materials are kept in properly shielded containers, there is no danger. Even if you're standing right next to it.

      But what of the waste that will last millions of years? All that's needed there is a bit of common sense. If the material is going to be radioactive for millions of years, then it can't be very radioactive to begin with, can it? If it WAS highly radioactive, then it would convert all its mass to radiation in a very short period of time.

      So I personally think Bush is on the right track here. The previous non-proliferation attempts were poorly conceived and implemented. If Bush can change that around, then I salute his attempts.
      • Re:Makes sense (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sacdelta ( 135513 )
        One big problem with radioactivity is that people can't see it. That makes it scary. Coal might be worse for us, but people can see it and the smoke that it produces. Also, coal has been around a lot longer, people are used to it. Most people understand the basic idea of coal. You burn it. Just like wood. It's something they can do themselves. Nuclear power requires people with PhDs. While it may be an evil, it's a familiar evil. People fear change and people fear those things they cannot see or u
      • For the record (Score:3, Informative)

        by lilmouse ( 310335 )

        Yet these same materials happen to exist in your backyard...

        I hate to break it to ya, but at least one of the byproducts of nuclear power (Plutonium) isn't around in your backyard (or if it is, you're in trouble). It also happens to be one of the most toxic substances we know of (ok, inhaling pure cesium is probably pretty bad as well), and that's before we consider that it's radioactive. Nasty stuff.

        Anyway, I have a very hard time swallowing "safest options on the planet."

        What happens if the US descends

        • Re:For the record (Score:3, Insightful)

          by AKAImBatman ( 238306 )
          I hate to break it to ya, but at least one of the byproducts of nuclear power (Plutonium) isn't around in your backyard

          No, but there's plenty of Uranium [cameco.com]. Plutonium should be burned up rather than stored as waste.

          It also happens to be one of the most toxic substances we know of

          Bullshit. It doesn't rate even close. [atomicinsights.com] Let me ask you, which would you rather ingest: 20 grams of caffine or 20 grams of plutonium? [wikipedia.org]

          If you value your life, you'll go for the plutonium.

          What happens if the US descends into anarchy as a re
          • Blech. This, "Most of the stuff is only dangerous for the first month or so." should read, "Most of the stuff that is dangerous, is only dangerous for the first month or so."
        • I hate to break it to ya, but at least one of the byproducts of nuclear power (Plutonium) isn't around in your backyard

          I hate to break it to ya, but 5 tons of Plutonium was released into the atmosphere between 1945 and 1963 - so some of that is in your backyard.

          Nuclear waste is still gonna be dangerous tens of thousands of years from now

          After a few hundred years, the waste is about the same danger as the original ore.

    • You're forgetting the reprocessing is a great way to harvest fuel for nuclear weapons (in particular plutonium).

      Also, while it does stretch our supplies of fissile materials, it produces a hell of a lot of radioactive, liquid, toxic waste that has to be stored until its safe to solidy and bury. There have been large leaks and spills of this material before.

      Nuclear reprocessing in its current form is a bad idea and makes it harder to discourage in other states. Then again, it goes along great with the curr
      • Not necessarily.

        Encouraging other countries to send us their nuclear waste is a great way to reduce proliferation.

        See, if you run a nuclear reactor rod through the normal power-generating fuel cycle, by the time you reprocess it, you will have plutonium that's so contaminated with Pu-240 that you cannot use it in nuclear warheads.

        Remember, enrichment seperates U-235 from U-238. That's easy -- three atomic numbers apart. Seperating Pu-239 and Pu-240 is hard because that's one atomic nubmer apart.

        If you wan
        • Don't forget that as a bonus, more PU-238 becomes available for use in Space Probes and other radioisotope thermal generator applications. Once the Pu-239 is burned up in the reactors, the remaining Tritium, Strontium, Cesium, Americanium, and other materials can then be divied up and resold for medical and industrial use.
        • Remember, enrichment seperates U-235 from U-238. That's easy -- three atomic numbers apart. Seperating Pu-239 and Pu-240 is hard because that's one atomic nubmer apart.

          Those aren't the atomic numbers, they're the atomic weights. U has an atomic number of 92, Pu is 94.

          You're correct, though, that the difficulty in separating isotopes of the same element (same atomic number, different weight) increases with decreasing atomic weight differences. It's like buoyancy: oil and vinegar separate more readily t

    • Energy Needs (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jgardn ( 539054 )
      I don't think your criticism of Bush's policy of expanding America's energy production are completely valid. President Bush has supported measures to reduce the energy needs of America through conservation and efficiency. He admits that that alone is not enough, however.

      As a trained physicist, I learned that there is one universal currency: energy. In fact, it can be said that energy is the only thing of value to us. One of our jobs as a trained physicist is to discover new and better ways of accessing the
    • Re:Makes sense (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BitGeek ( 19506 )

      Conservation is evil. Efficiency is good. You want to make your process more efficient, great.

      If you want to say that I can't be allowed to buy the power I need to do what I want, then you are denying me the most basic right in existance.

      If someting is rare, then let the market determine its price. Market forces will cause people to find alternatives.

      Conservation-- government mandated rationing-- causes people who could even afford the high price (Because the benefit to society is so great) to be denied
    • Of course, conservation would never cross his mind - we must find a way to consume more :-/ Sorry - too easy to rant here!

      Hey, why don't you practice what you preach and conserve energy by turning your computer off?

  • by aelbric ( 145391 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:01PM (#14569878)
    It is about high time countries started giving serious attention to nuclear energy as an option and the research required to make it safe and effective. I have never been a very strong believer in human-caused global warming. I believe something is happening but was skeptical about us being major contributors.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but it is January 26 in Detroit and there still hasn't been a single piece of ice in the river. Something is up. Moving from fossil fuels to nuclear may not fix the problem long-term, but it definitely won't make it any worse.

    Get us over to a nuclear/renewables/hydrogen economy and another side benefit would be no one giving a crap about how much oil is in the middle-East.
    • Actually, this thing here [cameco.com] heats up the river a little bit!
    • It is about high time countries started giving serious attention to nuclear energy as an option and the research required to make it safe and effective.

      Indeed. In fact, if a solution could be found to protecting reactors against high-seas piracy, I'd love to see our merchant ships switch over from fossil fuels. I mean, these big suckers burn through gallons of fuel per foot, and burn some of the dirtiest crap left over from the petroleum distillation processes. In addition, these fuels take up a significant
      • This also means that the ships can be made safer as they won't rise in the water so high as they burn through the fuel. Rather, they'll stay at the same low-level throughout their entire trip, ensuring that the ship is kept stable even in poor weather.

        Ships already have balast tanks that they fill as they burn fuel or hold less cargo weight to ride lower in the water. This is partly why an oil tanker doesn't bob like a top when crossing the ocean empty.

        As for putting reactors in ships, US Nuclear carr
        • Ships already have balast tanks that they fill as they burn fuel or hold less cargo weight to ride lower in the water.

          Indeed. But ballast tanks add additional storage room and cannot entirely compensate.

          As for putting reactors in ships, US Nuclear carriers are probably a start for anyone attempting to do this.

          I can do you one better than that. Meet the good ship NS Savannah [wikipedia.org], a 595ft long, 22,000 ton merchant ship capable of cruising the oceans full of 8.5 kilotons of cargo at a blistering 21 knots. The shi
    • You've got to be kidding. I live in Ann Arbor, and there has been ice and snow all over the place since late November/early December. Not constantly, but most days. I even have whiplash from falling on the ice the other day.

      Maybe it's not global warming, but pollutants in the river that are keeping it from icing?

    • Global warming is having a very minor effect on local environment(what, 1 degree C over 10 years?). Not enough to keep your river from freezing. What is more likely is that the air/water currents are changing and the jet stream is coming south from canada further east, leaving michigan is the duldrums or being heated by southern air.

      -Rick
      • Well, I'm definitely not a climatologist so I will concede your point makes sense. My support for this still stands though, the nuclear/renewable/hydrogen power combo is better than coal/oil no matter how you slice it. Is it without costs/problems? Of course not. Does it reduce our emissions, encourage energy independence, and eliminate the importance of Middle-Eastern Oil? Without question.

        In fact, I'm failing to see the downside.
  • by skraps ( 650379 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:02PM (#14569898)
    Everybody say it with me... NUKE-U-LER
  • Mr. Burns: A lifetime of working with nuclear power has left me with a healthy green glow... and left me as impotent as a Nevada boxing commissioner.
  • Meanwhile Iran is forbidden by the USA to even talk about doing similar. I'm tired of the hypocracy. Give every nation control over their own destinies. This administration's policies are just plain ridiculous. I'm not sure why exactly the rest of the world hasn't stepped in to claim that the current administration is as evil as the Nazi Party was during Hitler's reign. I say if Saddam Hussain had just threated to use a nuke we'd not be in this mess. I'm with the NRA on this one... If you arm everyo
    • This is taking stuff that would basically have to be stored as pure waste a purpose once again.

      Iran wants to enrich the stuff in the first place to create more nuclear waste later from power production (ya right).
    • I agree with you completely on the point of hypocrasy.

      Let's see how the U.S. stacks up to the rest of the world with regard to nukes:

      1. The U.S. has more nukes than anyone else on the planet. Check.

      2. The U.S. is the only country to ever use nuclear weapons. Check.

      3. Not only that, we used them on an entirely civilian population. Check.

      4. As recently at 2 years ago the U.S. was still trying to develop nuclear weapons (nuclear bunker busters). Check.

      So, given those points, what gives the U.S. any rig
      • by timster ( 32400 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:33PM (#14570347)
        You forget that the US is a democracy and democracies never start wars, by definition... at least according to the US government.
        • *cough* 2002 *cough*

          That's the problem, check your source... at least according to the US government.

        • Too bad you have this only half right ... the COMPLETE statement is:

          Democracies do not start wars WITH EACH OTHER. And so far history has born that out.

          And that is not just the US government saying it, it is pretty much the opinion of every political science expert.
      • Ugh, the usual bullshit again. Allow me to elaborate:

        1. Yep, we do. It comes from being the first to have them and the arms race between the USSR. We don't have as many as we used to, though. The number is dropping.

        2 & 3. Try to find anyone that's proud of it. However, in the big picture, the bombs, horrid as they were, stopped the war short of an outright invasion that would have resulted in far, far greater casualties on both sides. Japan was going kamikaze left and right and almost didn't surrender a
        • 1. So my initial statement was exactly true.

          2 & 3. Whether the nukes were needed is a matter of opinion and speculation [doug-long.com]. Personally I think the evidence says they weren't needed, but that changes nothing and is still just an opionion. There is no reason to discuss these points further. My original statements are still exactly true.

          4. The ONLY reason we don't have nuclear bunker busters being used in Iraq right now is because there is still enough collective brain power in congress to keep Bush and
          • It would be far better, in every way, for there to be a governing body (yes, it would probably need to run by the U.N., as much as I dislike the U.N.) and for there to be a specific set of guidelines governing the development and use of nuclear energy, and the complete removal from the planet of nuclear weapons.

            It would also be far better, in every way, for magical unicorns to fly me to a happy candy land where everything is free and dogs never die. But so long as that's not credibly happening in the fore

        • 1) no we don't. Russia still has more nukes than the US. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4586829.stm [bbc.co.uk]
      • Take a deep breath and read what you typed. Forget the US for a moment - is it in the world's best interest for Iran or North Korea to be nuclear armed? Do you really want Iran to be nuclear armed just so the US does not appear to be "hypocritical"?

        Now lets get back to the US... Iran and North Korea are working to build nuclear weapons, while the US is actively reducing the number of weapons it possesses. Will you at least give the US credit for moving in the proper direction? Past actions of a state, unli

        • I didn't say that Iran and North Korea ~should~ have nuclear weapons. I believe that they shouldn't (and neither should anyone else).

          But the same rules that apply to them should apply to everyone.

          It's not just nuclear weapons that are affected. We are telling them they can't have anything nuclear in any way, shape, or form.

          Policies should be put in place that govern the safe use of nuclear technology in EVERY country. That way we can tell countries "Play by the rules or not at all" instead of "You can't
          • I didn't say that Iran and North Korea ~should~ have nuclear weapons. I believe that they shouldn't (and neither should anyone else).

            Okay, good, I'm glad we agree on THAT.

            It's not just nuclear weapons that are affected. We are telling them they can't have anything nuclear in any way, shape, or form.

            That is not true! The U.N. (note that this is not only the position of the U.S.) is saying that they cannot enrich uranium. Highly enriched uranium can be used as a bomb fuel. The problem is that the sa

    • The problem is that when you give "every nation control over their own destinies", you get nations which, say, go off in the corner and say, to use the Nazi reference you brought up, round up Jews and put them in death camps. Or engage in any other of amazing variety of human rights abuses. Or just sit around burning tons of smoggy coal and ruining neighbors' environments. And you will have some nation who thinks its destiny is to go and take over their world (oohheynazis), or their neighbors, and are unwil
    • Mod parent down for near flamebait, maybe, but he's got a point. Right now, the administration is trying very hard to persuade European countries to sign on on keeping Iran at an embargo over its nuclear production capabilities. I'm not going to violate Godwin's Law like the OP just yet, but certainly this announcement could stir up sentiment further against the U.S. in a region of the world where we're trying to "win over hearts and minds." I'm not personally afraid of nuclear power, at least not in com
  • I'm glad we're finally going to reprocess this waste rather than letting it just accumulate. In the long run, reprocessing will reduce the amount of waste that would need to be put in Yucca Mountain (or wherever). Unfortunately, it looks like they're going about it half-assed. They'll be reprocessing waste, but the reprocessed uranium won't be usable by our own reactors. That's kinda like taking Europe's used beer cans and our own and turning them into chain mail for the troops. It's expensive and is p
    • . In the long run, reprocessing will reduce the amount of waste that would need to be put in Yucca Mountain (or wherever).

      The thing about parking these waste products in the Yucca Mountain style storage is folks tend to think we are planning to store it there until time/decay makes it safe again - requiring centuries, millenniums, etc.... I strongly suspect we will have the technology to do something meaningful with the current by products in the next 50-100 years (possibly less) as we figure out how matte
      • As I understand it, if we re-enrich the nuclear material, the left over waste products will be about as radioactive as uranium ore. In other words, we can store the waste in the same mines we took it out of. Additionaly, the waste will decay to "safe" levels in about 100 years or so. Much less than that tens of thousands that current "waste" would last.
  • by johndeerejedi ( 317878 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @01:22PM (#14570191)
    There was a good Scientific American article in December 2005 about using fast reactors to use waste fuel from other reactors to produce power using pyrometalurgical techniques to process the fuel. I'm sorry but all Scientific American has is a preview of the article, entitled http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D556 0-D9B2-137C-99B283414B7F0000&ref=sciam&chanID=sa00 6 [sciam.com] "Smarter Use of Nuclear Waste". The gist of the article is that current thermal reactors use only 5% of the enriched nuclear fuel (U235) and the waste includes a lot of Plutonium, U238, and other actinydes that the process in the article would consume. This pyrometalurgical processing also prevents taking out the Plutonium--it takes out the waste products, like Strontium. Since it can consume U238, Thorium, etc. it would be able to "burn" something like 95% of the nuclear fuel and the waste products would be short lived radioactive waste. I hope this is the procedure they are using, and not breeder reactors or conventional reprocessing.
  • IFR (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tsnorri ( 547823 )
    According to Wikipedia, research on the Integral Fast Reactor [wikipedia.org] was cancelled due to non-proliferation. Could the work continue now? To me, it seems quite an achievement, that the waste elements produced by the reactor had half lives of only a few decades.
  • the Bush Administration is planning to re-enrich spent nuclear fuel so that it can once again be used in nuclear reactors.

    Owwwwww, make it stop!

    I loathe the current administration. Everything about him/them. I look forward to the impending impeachment proceedings, led most satisfyingly of all by the Republicans.

    But...

    I agree with this one! I've argued that we need to recycle spent fuel for years.

    So this confuses me and hurts my head. Bush double plus bad, but recycling good... Bush bad, recyc
  • I feel like I'm psychic... just in case you missed this incredibly prescient rant on reprocessing [slashdot.org], I'll repost a summary of it here since it is so germaine. It was in response to the item about Sweden weaning themselves from oil in 20 years, because the oil is running out. ...everyone else have to get over their reluctance to embrace nuclear power... Sooner or later, somebody is going to wake up to the fact that breeder reactors that use fuel recycing produce less than 3% of that high level waste that would
  • by The_REAL_DZA ( 731082 ) on Thursday January 26, 2006 @04:20PM (#14572695)
    "You can't put too much water in a nuclear reactor."

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