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Operating Systems Software Hardware

Dell's Open PC Costs More Than Windows Box 440

Posted by Zonk from the odd-that dept.
fist_187 writes "In this article at The Register, they show thath Dell's Open PC costs more than a PC shipped with Windows XP. That's right, getting a PC with a blank hard drive costs more than the same hardware running Windows XP." From the article: "As it turns out, Dell's sales staffers have a secret web page for the product that you can't find with normal search tactics. A kind lass we'll call 'M' pointed us here. On this site, Dell presents a couple different versions of the mysterious E510n. The lowest-end system starts at $774 and is exactly like the boxes above - including the free flat panel - except it has 512MB of memory. For some reason, Dell told reporters that the box starts at $849 - yet another one of the odd sales tactics surrounding this "open source" kit. [Following the publication of our story, Dell raised the price of the PC back up to $849. See the sales pages below for the original $774 price comparisons.]"
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Dell's Open PC Costs More Than Windows Box More

Dell's Open PC Costs More Than Windows Box

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  • New math.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Brad1138 ( 590148 ) <brad1138@yahoo.com> on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:35PM (#13744975)
    Must be that new math I keep hearing about...

  • Resell Windows (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ajwitte ( 849122 ) <slashdot@andrewwitte.com> on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:35PM (#13744980) Homepage
    So.. the logical thing to do is buy the PC with Windows and then resell the Windows license. Or is that not allowed?
    • That's pretty much a sequence of numbers, when there's no guarantee that the other person won't use it? Kinda like buying a CD-Key game with open packaging... Not something I'd recommend.
      • Maybe not the smartest idea, but can't you call Microsoft and have a machine deactivated? If they did that before you bought it, and you signed a contract saying they'd never reactivate it, it might be safe. Then again, if they did use it, the legal fees to fight them would be more than a new Dell anyway. I guess it could go either way, depending on how cheap you are and how much risk you want to take (hey, you are trying to run Windows...).

    • Re:Resell Windows (Score:2, Insightful)

      by kegwell ( 789687 )
      No, the most logical and economical thing to do is build you own machine. Resources are so plentiful and hardware is so cheap anymore, is there really any point in paying a large corporation extra hundred(s) of dollars for warrantys to replace a $50 hdd or cdrom? Save the money and build your own.

      • Re:Resell Windows (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Afrosheen ( 42464 ) on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:58PM (#13745060)
        Building your own is great, but when you're freelancing as a consultant, and you have clients, you don't want to worry about what you build, and that's where Dell and others come in. Plus it's easy to sell people on Dell machines, at home or at offices, since alot of them already use them at work. Every time you say 'I can build one FOR you..' they get this strange look and their eyes usually glaze over. For some reason, they accept the fact that you can fix pc's but not build them.

        • You'll never get fired for recommending Dell. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by WoTG ( 610710 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @01:19AM (#13745295) Homepage Journal
          I wouldn't ever consider building a PC for a client these days. Why build for someone as a consultant? You're just asking for trouble. Machines have fairly high failure rates no matter what brand or components you use. I'd rather point people to Dell so that when something breaks, I'm covered. =) Besides, with PC prices the way they are, how much can you save your clients anyway? Especially once you factor in the cost of your time.

          • Re:You'll never get fired for recommending Dell. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by shaitand ( 626655 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @02:48AM (#13745495) Journal
            "Why build for someone as a consultant?"

            People tend to call the company who built their pc's to fix them.

            "You're just asking for trouble. Machines have fairly high failure rates no matter what brand or components you use. I'd rather point people to Dell so that when something breaks, I'm covered. =)"

            And yet, somehow, Dell seems to turn a profit on these high failure rate systems. Dell offers a 90-120 day warranty. The odds of something going wrong with a pc in that time at all, and even more the odds of something going wrong in that time that is not billable are pretty slim. If you put 20 systems in a lab something has to go wrong with each and every one that takes several hours to fix before your cash flow goes out of the green and that is just on the initial sale. Even if you broke even after hardware difficulties residual business after the warranty term will put you back into the green.

            "Besides, with PC prices the way they are, how much can you save your clients anyway? Especially once you factor in the cost of your time."

            Not much. Of course you can offer them systems with increased reliability and/or performance than Dell can. Last I checked Dell and every other major brandname use the cheapest proprietary components on the market that will get them up to the "specs" that consumers are looking for.

            The other thing to consider is that while you will not beat the price of the Dell by much at least you will keep the profits instead of giving Dell a handout. You can offer your customer a superior machine at the same or lower price AND on-call in-house expertise that Dell can't even begin to compete with.

      • Re:Resell Windows (Score:5, Insightful)

        by davmoo ( 63521 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:27AM (#13745141)
        The only reason left these days to build your own is if you want specific components, or you just want the experience. Economic reasons to build your own died when Walmart and other big-box stores started offering PCs for $299.

    • Re:Resell Windows (Score:5, Informative)

      by mystik ( 38627 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:02AM (#13745067) Homepage Journal
      Not Allowed.

      Behold the OEM license, and Anti-Unbundling clauses. The software is tied to the hardware, and the license sticker is even on the unit (just the case).

      It's annoying -- but intentional -- to prevent exactly what you describe.

      • Doesn't matter (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Rocketship Underpant ( 804162 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:19AM (#13745119)
        It doesn't matter. First sale doctrine says you can re-sell anything someone else has sold to you. That includes your software, no matter what some silly sticker on your computer says. The only party facing any restrictions is Dell; their contract with Microsoft says they have to bundle the cheap OEM version of Windows with a computer and not sell it separately. The user is free to do with his copy as he wishes.
        • read your windows eula buddy, or be ready to defend your rights under it it in a court of law.
        • It doesn't matter. First sale doctrine says you can re-sell anything someone else has sold to you. That includes your software, no matter what some silly sticker on your computer says.

          You didn't buy it, you licensed it. That's the whole point behind software licensing.

            -Charles

          • You didn't buy it, you licensed it.

            A "copy" is defined by federal copyright law (17 USC 101) as a physical object in which a computer program is fixed, such as a hard drive or an optical disc. The "owner" of a physical object is defined by state law and is generally set up by a transaction called a "sale". Combine these and you get the "owner of a copy", who retains specific rights backed up by defenses under 17 USC sections 109 and 117 as well as fit-for-purpose provisions of state law. In order for th

            • ProCD v Zeidenberg. Besides, Softman is CD Cal 01. You're better off referencing Vault v Quaid -- but that deals with reverse engineering. Furthermore, Softman deals with a distributor -- not an end user -- specifically the one that runs buycheapsoftware.com. Clickwrap/Shrinkwrap are valid, and as such, they enforce terms upon useage for end users. [I'm not saying this is a good thing.] Also, Softman is primarily about bundling of "Adobe Collections" and Adobe's trademarks. Also, in Adobe V Stargate

          • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward
            You didn't buy it, you licensed it. That's the whole point behind software licensing.

            Did you sign a license? No, you bought a computer, and it's nearly impossible to buy a dell computer without windows. You can do whatever you want with everything that comes with the computer - sell it, burn it, or throw it away. It's the doctrine of first sale.

            There was a case a few years back about someone selling OEM adobe software. The guy had obtained genuine OEM adobe software and was reselling it. Adobe sued the guy,

        • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:4, Interesting)

          by PingPongBoy ( 303994 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:56AM (#13745228)
          The user is free to do with his copy

          technically if not totally legally including installation on multiple boxen. If a blank PC is considered to be just as profitable to Dell as a PC without Windows it is fairly clear that Dell must be paying next to nothing to Micro$oft for each copy.

          Micro$oft is probably regarding the supposed lack of revenues from Dell as sheer marketing cost. It's likely also that higher end machines pay off more to Microsoft though since they aren't being sold to poor/penny-pinching people.

          Corollary - what's the difference to Microsoft if they just sold Windows at very affordable prices? Standalone Windows pricing is just to appease the trustbusters

          The question begged is what is Microsoft getting out of all this? Is it really worth it to be competing with open source operating system at an equivalent price? Will the ultimate operating system be open source? If you buy from Dell you're not paying more. This is just the first PC offering from Dell with no Windows. Quite possibly the economy of scale for entry-level machines having Windows included actually cost LESS!! It's all about warranty and support infrastructure, perhaps. Let's see what happens with later machines as Moore's law drives prices lower and lower. If Microsoft seeks to build higher level software while leaving the operating system to the public domain, it'll be an interesting world.

        • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Actually it does matter. You see Microsoft will not activate any OEM OS cd from Dell. This was done by Microsoft as an effort to stop piracy and illegal copies. The Dell-branded os cds will only self activate when installed on a Dell machine. If you try to activate it online it will fail and if you phone Microsoft they will tell you to talk to Dell because it is OEM. Oh and by the way that cheap OEM version is identical to the version you can go and buy at the store. It is just branded as Dell software beca

        • No, not the case (Score:5, Informative)

          by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @01:01AM (#13745239)
          So couple of reasons. One is simple: The DMCA. Your OEM copy of Windows will not work on a non-Dell box. To make it do so, you have to modify it and such modifications would violate the DMCA. Though I disagree with the law it currently is the law and thus if you violate it you can be subject to criminal charges.

          The other is that even without that, software is kind of special. When you use software, you actually make a copy of it to your computer, something not necessiarly permitted by copyright law. Thus the permission comes in the form of an EULA, to which you must agree or you don't have that right. Well the EULA restricts this.

          Is that legal? Well, maybe. Notice that game rental sotres don't rent computer games, just console games. The reason is, of course, concerns over copying. However console games can be, and are, copied all the time. So what's the deal? Well, likely game companies have sucessfully used the EULA argument to stop rentals. Can't be done with console games. No copying, thus no legal problems, and doctrine of first sale allows the rentals. However with PC games the copying happens, thus the need for EULA agreements, thus the problem.

          Now like I said, all that's murkeir, might be that provision of the EULA isn't enforcable. However it's all moot, given the DMCA. You can't sell your copy of Windows using the provided key, it won't work, the key is Dell only. To modify Windows to use a different key is to break the DMCA which, retarded as it is, is the law.

          • Informative? Plain old wrong. (Score:5, Informative)

            by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @02:22AM (#13745442) Homepage
            Is that legal? Well, maybe. Notice that game rental sotres don't rent computer games, just console games. The reason is, of course, concerns over copying. However console games can be, and are, copied all the time. So what's the deal? Well, likely game companies have sucessfully used the EULA argument to stop rentals. Can't be done with console games. No copying, thus no legal problems, and doctrine of first sale allows the rentals. However with PC games the copying happens, thus the need for EULA agreements, thus the problem.

            May I direct you to Exclusive rights in copyrighted works [cornell.edu]. I quote: "(3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;" Nothing to do with copying. Nothing to do with EULAs. Not permitted by doctrine of first sale. Rentals are specifically named as an exclusive right. The console game companies want to license that right, the PC game companies do not. That is all.

          • Re:No, not the case (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Arker ( 91948 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @03:44AM (#13745599) Homepage

            When you use software, you actually make a copy of it to your computer, something not necessiarly permitted by copyright law.

            No, it is specifically allowed by copyright law, it's the normal use of software.

        • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Interesting)

          by mcrbids ( 148650 )
          It doesn't matter. First sale doctrine says you can re-sell anything someone else has sold to you. That includes your software, no matter what some silly sticker on your computer says. The only party facing any restrictions is Dell; their contract with Microsoft says they have to bundle the cheap OEM version of Windows with a computer and not sell it separately. The user is free to do with his copy as he wishes.

          OK. So take your perfectly LEGAL copy of Windows, and um... sell it on EBay. Let us all know how

          • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Informative)

            by Auckerman ( 223266 )
            As a copyright holder, I can say "Your legal right to use this software exists only so long as your left ring finger is jammed into your belly button", and well, that's the price of the license. Don't like? Don't use the software!

            That is incorrect. Copyright holders have no ability enforce an unaccept contract. If I don't accept the license, the default is NOT that I can not use the software. That is incorrect, the default is docterine of first sale. I own it, I can do what I want with it. There is NOT

            • Re:Doesn't matter (Score:3, Interesting)

              by mcrbids ( 148650 )
              If I don't accept the license, the default is NOT that I can not use the software.

              Really? So, if (for example), SCO were to reject the "license" for the Linux kernel given persuant to the GPL, why, since they "bought" a copy of Red Hat, why, they can do what they want with it?

              Ever consider that you don't generally buy software, in any sense at all? As with renting anything else (EG: a DVD, an apartment, a car, etc) you get the right to USE it for a fee, so long as you honor certain conditions. I can see it

          • Won't work in all jurisdictions (Score:4, Informative)

            by Lonewolf666 ( 259450 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @09:22AM (#13746284)
            In Germany, there was a similar case a few years ago. A dealer unbundled PC hardware and Microsoft OEM licenses and sold them separately. Microsoft sued him and lost. At the Bundesgerichtshof to boot, which is the highest judical authority in non-constitutional cases. That makes the decision rather final.

            IIRC, the court explicitly applied the german equivalent of the "First Sale" doctrine, the EULA mumbo-jumbo nonwithstanding.

             
      • Legally i believe it is acceptable I have done it numerous times and did get a friend (who is a lawyer ) to check up on that '(Note: this is in the EU , Germany and the UK specifically ) . The OEM license can be seen to be violating consumer rights , I don't think a business could do it , but a private individual could .
        Again I'm not 100% on that but considering it is an agreement in which you don't knowingly partake or sign in any real sense it should be non actionable in the UK and Germany

  • Think they might have noticed the slashdot directs (Score:3, Funny)

    by jwigum ( 813234 ) on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:35PM (#13744981)
    Heh. Nothing like telling a bunch of open source guys about a bare drive'ed dell to get them to hustle over and check it out.

    • Re:Think they might have noticed the slashdot dire (Score:5, Insightful)

      by benjamindees ( 441808 ) on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:45PM (#13745008) Homepage
      No, it's been that way for a while. The FreeDOS boxes have always (as long as I remember) been more expensive than an equivalent box with XP.

      I don't know what kind of deal they have with Microsoft to make that happen, but I suspect it is more than just the AOL and McAfee add-ons that they can bundle with XP.

      • Isn't this considered dumping? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @01:38AM (#13745338)
        The FreeDOS boxes have always (as long as I remember) been more expensive than an equivalent box with XP.

        I don't understand why this is allowed to begin with. Wouldn't this be considered Microsoft (or Dell) "dumping" their operating system if they make consumers pay more to not get it. With the computers shipping with an operating system out of the mailing box, an alternative OS has a harder time even getting a trail run on the machine. Even if someone was specifically interested in an alternative OS, they would buy the Windows-preinstalled machine because it costs less. Then, well they could reformat the drive and install SuSe, Linspire, ect. But the machine is ready to go right now...
        • Economically, maybe. Practically, no. Dumping laws are aimed at foreign producers. Microsoft, being a company developing software in America, probably can't be hit for importing product cheaper than its domestic competitors can (a common metric for dumping laws). Dumping laws are protectionist and rob consumers of value. Unfortunately, I've yet to see a consumer lobbyist group in Washington.
        • No this just proves that Windows actually has a negative retail value. For every installation of Windows you distribute, Microsoft with pay YOU the price difference! It's how hardware vendors make money on such low margins. Therefore, P2P distributors can prove that they are actually OWED money FROM Microsoft in the billions of dollars! OK, seriously, guys. I hope you don't believe a word of this.

  • Obvious, actually (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lastberserker ( 465707 ) <babanov&earthlink,net> on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:42PM (#13744998) Homepage Journal
    Computers with Windows XP are stuffed to the roof with trialware and services that kick back the cost. Those with empty hard drives are, well, empty. What's so hard to grasp here?

    • And why is anyone even bitching about it? If removing Windows costs money for other wierd reasons like the above, then just buy a Windows machine and reformat the hard-drive.
      • The suggestion is that Dell is inflating the price to satify Microsoft.

      • Re:Obvious, actually (Score:5, Interesting)

        by peter_gzowski ( 465076 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:13AM (#13745101) Homepage
        We're bitching because we don't want to give Microsoft an automatic cut of every PC sale on the planet. Every PC sold by Dell is $50-$90 in MS's pocket (all numbers pulled from the recesses of my memory, so someone can correct me if I'm off). Other posts have suggested that this cost is recovered by companies who pay Dell to put trial versions of their software on the computer. It doesn't seem enough to account for $50-$90 + $75 per PC, but I suppose this could be the case. I would prefer that Dell just come out and say that the "Premium Software and Security" that comes with the PC is really just commercials, and not some actual value that is being added to the computer.

        Wasn't there some period of time where you could redeem unused Windows XP licenses for cash from Microsoft? Whatever happened to that?

    • Exactly... so why not provide a CD that has all the same trial software on it? That wouldn't even require work on Dell's part, beyond slapping the files into a master for their duplicator folks, and maybe adding an installer menu. Dell's partners still get their crap distributed and Dell still gets their cut.

      Or maybe some sort of basic free desktop and a runtime to demo said trial software? Oh yeah, that would require work on Dell's part. Never mind!

    • Some of them are stuffed with worse than that. Ive got an Acer machine that came preinstalled with invasive spyware. I decided not to rip it out cause then i loose the prove i was sold a violation of my privacy without full disclosure.

      Who expects to find GATOR of all programs burried on their brand new box??????

      • Re:Obvious, actually (Score:5, Informative)

        by Verteiron ( 224042 ) * on Saturday October 08, 2005 @01:06AM (#13745255) Homepage
        Gator hell. I've seen recent HP desktops come from Best Buy with MyWay searchbar pre-installed. Every URL visited gets passed to MyWay's servers, ostensibly to allow it to "target" the search results it displays. In reality the end-user is just bombarded with more advertising. And what's worse, many of the MyWay ads link to sites that install -really- invasive crapware like SurfSidekick.

  • To heck with Dell (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:42PM (#13744999)
    Seriously. If there's one company in the world which would win an obfuscated price contest, it's Dell. Circuitous menus that seem to simultaneously tweak prices and options depending on who you are and where you're from is deeply suspect. You never get the actual price on anything until you're ready to punch in your credit card number. Advertised prices are pure fiction. I cannot imagine any reason for being so inconsistent about pricing. It's dishonest. I no longer do business with them.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:08AM (#13745084)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • "one hand doesn't know what the other is doing".

        in some places this phenomenon is also known as "plausible deniability".

        so when like someone, oh i don't know, AMD subpoenas you, you can plead ignorant. sort of like encrypting two pieces of data and then only giving the key to the worthless and non-incriminating piece.

      • Dell knows exactly what it's doing: establishing and maintaning a confusopoly [sourcewatch.org] in the PC business. They intentionally make it hard to figure out the price, because they hope you'll get tired and just accept whatever number is on the screen.

        It's just like a bait-and-switch, except harder to prove.

    • Dell prices to value, not to cost. (Score:5, Funny)

      by team99parody ( 880782 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:37AM (#13745167) Homepage
      Of course the Windows-free one is priced higher.

      Even though Windows has a lot of cost - it adds negative value.

      Since Dell (and any company looking to please its customers) will price things based on the value the customers receive, it makes perfect sense that they have to compensate the end user for the negative value Windows inflicts on them (pain, grief, anguish, suffering).

      (seriously, however - On the Windoze box there's a bunch of third-party crap that Dell was paid to put on there - I know, I worked for a company that paid OEMs to pre-install crippleware in the hopes for upgrading -- and in effect subsidized the windows boxes. I suspect this is what's happening, and Dell's just passing on the subsidy).

  • In this article at The Register...

    Eeek!

  • Third option... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by yddod ( 778690 )
    They should offer a third option to get the system with everything including windows as a 90 day trial. That would be the cheapest system possible!

  • Not the same (Score:5, Informative)

    by gcauthon ( 714964 ) * on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:46PM (#13745014)
    The PC with the blank hard drive appears to ship with a combo cd/dvd-rom and a fax modem. The PC with windows does not list these features.

  • Dell's Prices (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:48PM (#13745020)
    Dell's business units are so odd. You can go on their web site and find 3 different prices for the exact same thing depending on which unit you go in, and I mean home, small business, and large. I have ordered from all over that site for personal stuff, it cracks me up sometimes. I would be interested in why that happens. I have asked our Dell rep at work, but he couldn't really give a good answer either.
    • You can go on their web site and find 3 different prices for the exact same thing depending on which unit you go in, and I mean home, small business, and large.

      Add to those cathegories "Higher Education Institutions", "Higher Education Students, Faculty, and Staff", "Health Care", and "Government" (although these are harder to fake than say when you're a home user pretending to be running a business and vicevesa.)
    • I have a feeling all of this boils down to a simple case of price discrimination. The "business machines" sold by Dell are priced higher than the home machines, because businesses need to deploy computers en masse and Dell won't sell them home units at that quantity. Similarly, home users get a cheaper price because they won't pay the business price for the machine.

      I think the vast majority of people who buy a blank computer will be Linux enthusiasts who object to the Microsoft tax. For those people, the

    • Re:Dell's Prices (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bromoseltzer ( 23292 )
      The simple answer is that Dell figures it makes more money this way. They have some fancy pricing algorithms that adjust prices very frequently depending on all the data that they know (and you don't).. Details of which models are selling well, what their suppliers are charging this week, what their inventory is, and not least, how "price elastic" different classes of customers are.

      They are banking that most customers have not nearly enough information to find the best value, by comparing all the different

  • I Knew It! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Comatose51 ( 687974 ) on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:49PM (#13745023) Homepage
    I knew it all along! Windows XP generates NEGATIVE value! Suspected by me, confirmed by Dell!

    I kid, I kid.

  • Use coupon codes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by timeToy ( 643583 ) on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:52PM (#13745032)
    Dell computer are like American cars, you can always find a deal, you will be crazy to buy a Dell computer, any Dell, Desktop or Laptop, at the official price; they always have a ton of rebates and other "special" or coupon codes all the time.
    For instance right now they are running a sale on the excellent UltraSharp 2005FPW 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor for $394.35.
    A good place to find about theses deal is at this page: http://www.gottadeal.com/Deals/Store/dellhome [gottadeal.com]

  • Don't even try (Score:5, Funny)

    by All Names Have Been ( 629775 ) on Friday October 07, 2005 @11:53PM (#13745040)
    You'll never figure out Dell's pricing policies for any given piece of hardware. It will change randomly from moment to moment. Just when you think you know how to get the best deal, they'll completely change on you. Hell, we effectively resell Dell PCs, and even *WE* can't get a straight price from our rep. Fuck, their corporate customers who buy thousands of units a year don't know how much a PC will cost until they actually get charged for it.

    Personally, I use their pricing changes as a source of entropy to help generate cryptographic keys.

  • Makes sense (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Kawahee ( 901497 )
    They're doing this because they're going to sell less of these PCs. I mean, honestly, how many people are going to buy a Dell who have the intelligence to use Linux or another OS? Very few. I'm willing to be that 99% of the /. community or anybody who would potentially want to buy this PC already builds there own. Am I right or wrong here?

    • Re:Makes sense (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You are wrong in both assumptions you are making, the implicit one that people running linux don't buy pre-made boxes (as a freelance sys admin I know that many Dell Optiplexes and even Diminsions are running as servers) and the other unspoken assumption, that the lower volume on this model somehow cuts into efficiencies of scale. This hardware is identical to it's "sister models" with the exception of an adhesive backed sticker with the model number and serivce tag on it. It's not like they built a whole
    • My current computer is a dell. It was substantially cheeper to buy it from them to to build it ($800). I suppose they get a discount of some of the higher-end stuff I needed/wanted.

      When I upgrade, if they are cheeper then building, I'll buy from them again. If they are not, I will build.

    • I really doubt that 99% do that. I have a whole bunch of friends who are in college who read slashdot. Most of them own laptops which can't be built. Of those who own desktops, only -some- had built them but there are still a lot who still just go out and buy Dell (and sometimes Mac) desktops.

  • Well isn't a virgin worth more then a slut (Score:5, Funny)

    by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:02AM (#13745068) Journal
    Lets face it a PC with XP is anybody's. I wonder if this system comes in a white box to indicate its virgin status.

  • One Page (Score:5, Informative)

    by Viceice ( 462967 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:12AM (#13745097)
    One Page ad free version of article:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/06/dell_open_ pc/print.html [theregister.co.uk]

  • About the name... (Score:3, Funny)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdougNO@SPAMgeekazon.com> on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:28AM (#13745146) Homepage
    E510n -- at first it looked like an attempt to say something clever in leet, like "Easy-on," but apparently it's just a numbering scheme coincidence.
  • Trying valiantly to explain that big, bleeding hole in his foot I presume?

    How much longer is it gonna take & how many whacks with a clue-bat to make him understand that sleeping in the same bed with M$ isn't always the smartest business decision? But I suppose just one phone call from Bill, to remind him of the juicey discount he gets on winderz goes away if he so much as sells a single pc without it.

    There should never have been such a discount in the first place. If winderz is worth x dollars at stap

  • Guess Microsoft Windows has really become a tax (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rolman ( 120909 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @01:37AM (#13745335)
    I guess Microsoft Windows has really become a tax, when you see manufacturers doing similar things to what they do to avoid paying a duty and convert that to profit instead of passing the savings unto the customer.

    For all we know, it's supposed to be the other way around, because Microsoft shouldn't be offering the nice and heavy OEM discount to Dell anymore since they're violating Microsoft law by not selling PCs exclusively with Windows. Of course, most probably Dell is doing this on purpose, the ulterior motive being to put some pressure on Microsoft or other PC manufacturers.

    It's a strange world we live in...

  • Dell has tricky prices. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @02:19AM (#13745434) Homepage
    My experience with Dell is that they have VERY tricky prices. Never buy something from Dell until you check all the coupon sites. Dell plays the game of having several divisions that price the same items differently. Prices sometimes fluctuate at each division more than once in a month.

    Basically, I have found Dell to be a very abusive company. The only reason I would buy from them is if they have something not available from somewhere else, such as the 2405FPW 24 inch LCD monitor made by Samsung and BenQ.

    If you do business with Dell, get a written warranty.

    Be careful about Dell employees. They sometimes act for themselves and against the interest of their company. Talking to Dell is like going into a rough neighborhood.

    My experience is that Dell is undergoing the social breakdown that is happening in other parts of the United States. One big example of the general breakdown is discussed in this transcript and video: Ike Was Right About War Machine [informatio...house.info]. ("Ike" is former U.S. President and former Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in Europe General Dwight D. Eisenhower.)

    See also Andy Rooney speaks out against the war in Iraq [archive.org].

  • Dell routines..? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ltning ( 143862 ) <ltning AT anduin DOT net> on Saturday October 08, 2005 @04:20AM (#13745667) Homepage
    Can someone please explain to me one thing:

    Why was I told, by a Dell sales representative (our key account manager, actually), that "if I wanted to have a Matrox dual-DVI G650 card with my computers, I would *have* to accept that they came with WinXP preinstalled"??? I asked back, what does a piece of hardware have to do with any piece of software. And why on earth do they offer (now, but not when we placed our first batch of orders) a dual-DVI ATI card, for about half the price, WITHOUT requiring a WinXP installation?

    Let me try to get this straight:
    - I order a clean PC, and tell them I want a Matrox G650 card preinstalled
    ---> No can do, if you want the Matrox card preinstalled, you need XP preinstalled.

    - I order a clean PC, and tell them I want an ATI Xwhatever card preinstalled
    ---> No problem, do you want FreeDOS with that?

    And to top it off: I COULD have the Matrox card, OF COURSE, but then I'd have to install it myself.

    Yea right, install a frikkin' gfx card in 60 computers, thereby ruining much of my warranty - up yours.

    Puzzled, I am.

  • Not a Suprise, been buying from Dell for Years (Score:3, Informative)

    by Foo2rama ( 755806 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @04:32AM (#13745686) Homepage Journal
    I have been buying from Dell in numerous capacities for years, and it is rare that you cannot find the same thing at diiferent prices depending on how you play with the site. There are different pricing models depending on consumer or business even on the same models. It get even more fun when you realize some of the business models are identical to consumer models, they just have different names and the base state is slightly different. Customize up and match them (if you know how to decode dells mobo obsfucation) and Voila!!! 3 or 4 different prices for the exact same thing. Now If you are a Dell prefered buyer you are supposed to get the discount you arranged right? HAHAHAHAHA not if you look!

  • TCO (Score:3, Funny)

    by mkcmkc ( 197982 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @11:18AM (#13746705)
    "So, I guess this just goes to show you Linux losers that Windows does have lower TCO after all..."

  • Of course (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jozer99 ( 693146 ) on Saturday October 08, 2005 @12:14PM (#13746933)
    I work as an IT consultant, often helping small buisness purchase computers. Dell's pricing has been a nightmare forever. NOTHING is the same price ever. Identical Latitude and Inspirion laptops cost completely different prices, as with Optiplex and Dimension desktops. Some days theres a free monitor, printer, ect, but some days, for the same price, there is nothing. And identical computer sometimes cost different prices depending on which link you click.

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