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Encryption Security Media Music Hardware Your Rights Online

Consumer Electronics Companies Plan Common DRM Standard 298

Posted by michael from the one-standard-to-bind-them-all dept.
Rinisari writes "'The world's four biggest consumer electronics companies have agreed to start using a common method to protect digital music and video against piracy and illegal copying, they said on Thursday,' begins a Reuters article on Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, and Sony's new alliance to establish interoperability and combat the evergrowing 'threat' to the music industry. The new alliance is to be called the 'Marlin Joint Development Association.'" The BBC's story on this issue is better, with quotes from several people.
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Consumer Electronics Companies Plan Common DRM Standard More

Consumer Electronics Companies Plan Common DRM Standard

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  • Oh yeah, this'll go well. (Score:3, Funny)

    by pergamon ( 4359 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:50PM (#11434941) Homepage
    Don't worry, the association is named after a fish. This isn't going anywhere.
    • Something is very fishy about this organization. Could it be some sort of red herring? The groupers might need a trout slap if things go musky. For now, we'll just perch and watch.

  • Now watch... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nebaz ( 453974 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:50PM (#11434945)
    Sales of newer electronic devices plummet as consumers realize the older DRM free players will play MP3 files, and the newer models offer no advantage.

    Will the electronics companies attribute sales loss to piracy too?

    • Re:Now watch... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:53PM (#11434984)
      > Sales of newer electronic devices plummet as consumers realize the older DRM free players will play MP3 files, and the newer models offer no advantage.

      ...sales of current electronic devices skyrocket as consumers stockpile for the apocalypse!

      (They play us all like a fiddle.)

      • Re:Now watch... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by nadadogg ( 652178 )
        Eh, I don't think it will be all that bad. With only 1 type of DRM out there, once someone cracks one, they'll have them all open.

        • Re:Now watch... (Score:3, Interesting)

          by over_exposed ( 623791 )
          Yeah - great idea. Now the genius that cracked it gets a class-action lawsuit filed against him/her by ALL of the manufacturers that used it as opposed to a single company...
          • Look, whether one company sues you for 1 million dollars or 150 companies sue you for 150 million dollars, it's still too much money for a person to ever pay back. After the award is over a quarter of a million dollars, they may as well make it Infinite Dollars for all the good it's going to do them.
      • Isn't the consumer electronics industry something like twenty times larger than the movie and music industries? I think it was $100B for consumer electronics, and $5B for movies & music combined.

    • Re:Now watch... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by metlin ( 258108 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:54PM (#11434998) Journal
      > Will the electronics companies attribute sales
      > loss to piracy too?

      Yes.

      You don't really expect them to admit it to be because of greed or poor quality content, do you? :-)

    • Re:Now watch... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Rei ( 128717 )
      They'll make it offer an advantage, obviously. They'll only release higher-fidelity content on their new DRM-protected system.

      That doesn't mean that the DRM will work that well, mind you. :)

      • Re:Now watch... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Ahnteis ( 746045 )
        Low fidelity hasn't stopped people from using the MP3 format.
        • Mp3 is low fidelity? Phones are low fidelity. Cassette tapes are low fidelity. Vinyl is low fidelity. Mp3, depending on the bitrate and encoder, is almost identical to the human ears.

          If mp3s sounded like cassette tapes, a lot less people would be listening to them.
    • Sales of newer electronic devices plummet as consumers realize the older DRM free players will play MP3 files, and the newer models offer no advantage.

      Sales improve as new devices offer new features.

      Consumers don't give a damn about DRM so long as they have access to prime media content from the major providers.

      • Consumers don't give a damn about DRM

        They do, however, give many damns about whether or not their new $250 music player can play all the songs they downloaded off Kazaa. And if all the new players from Sony et al. don't play the MP3s consumers have already stockpiled, not to mention the AACs and WMAs, then no one will buy them.

        As Cory Doctorow pointed out in TFA, this is all about trying to sell the same content to the same people multiple times. And the average consumer won't stand for that, not when

    • Re:Now watch... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Abhorsen ( 850685 )
      Only the thoese with no tec knowledge are likley to buy these products. but they out number the rest of us. They alone could keep these products going.

  • Work around... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by neiffer ( 698776 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:51PM (#11434947) Homepage
    With one standard, doesn't that make it easier work for those working around it?

    • Re:Work around... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You forget that NO standards is even EASIER to work around.

      This is basically an acceptance that it's impossible to do DRM if each manufacturer has their own proprietary interface. The CD manufacturers aren't going to produce a Sony version, a Philips version, and a Maganavox version of the same CD to support incompatible standards. And consumers aren't going to buy CD's that will only play on one manufacturer's player (shut up, iPod haters).

      What they're hoping is that, with a joint standard, the content

    • work around of the week (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Erpo ( 237853 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:18PM (#11435292)
      With one standard, doesn't that make it easier work for those working around it?

      Yes, but that doesn't matter too much in the long run; trying to make an unbreakable DRM system is an unwinnable battle. The content cartel can still win the war by creating a future in which (flawed) Digital Restriction Mechanisms are a standard part of every consumer electronics device, preventing the nontechnical user from making copies of copyrighted works.

      People will be born in this future who will think DRM is normal and OK.

      Besides, the real threat we all ought to be concentrating on is "Trusted" Computing, not the DRM flavor of the week.

      • Re:work around of the week (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Gob Blesh It ( 847837 ) <gobblesh1t@gmail.com> on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:38PM (#11435511)
        "trying to make an unbreakable DRM system is an unwinnable battle"

        Exactly. People don't seem to realize that the real battle isn't about technology at all, but for people's hearts and minds. Drill it into every child's head that only criminals and morally bankrupt thugs would ever circumvent DRM--even if only to timeshift TV programs, for example, or throw a mixtape together for your cross-country roadtrip--and you'll only need a cursory sprinkling of DRM to (as Steve Jobs put it) "keep honest people honest."

        The battle for content creators and copyright holders is to redefine "honest" in as profitable a way as possible.

    • Re:Work around... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by killjoe ( 766577 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:40PM (#11435526)
      There won't be a single standard. Did you notice which names are NOT on the list? MS and Apple, the two largest companies pushing their own DRM technologies. Also note the absence of content providors such as RIAA.

    • One of the group's smaller subsidiaries, the United States Government, will come to your house and protect you from piracy. Our way of life is being attacked!

  • The world's four biggest consumer electronics companies have agreed to start using a common method to protect digital music and video against piracy and illegal copying

    So? Companies have conspired touse other methods before: CSS for DVD, Macrovision[0] for VHS & DVD, all sorts of failed software schemes, etc. How will this make things tougher? If anything there will be more avenues of attack on the system. If you can play it, you can copy it.

    [0] yeah, I know Macrovision is a company that licenses t
    • If you can play it, you can copy it.

      Exactly. As long as the player has S-video/component out, I'll be able to capture it on a computer in any format I like. And only one copy has to be posted on the net for the piracy to begin.

  • A step in the right direction... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chris09876 ( 643289 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:51PM (#11434961)
    As much as I hate DRM, this was really a necessary move. With everybody using different DRM technologies, even consumers who wanted to follow the law really had no choice. Having incompatible file formats wasn't a solution. Consolidation like this was a necessary first step for protected digitas music.

    • 1 Scheme=1Hole (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:53PM (#11434987) Homepage Journal
      And don't forget, with everyone consolidated on 1 single scheme, all the pirates have to do is figure out 1 hole in it instead of 1 hole for each previous scheme.

      • Re:1 Scheme=1Hole (Score:3, Informative)

        by Rei ( 128717 )
        Almost whatever scheme they use, I would think that this would work (anyone see a problem with this?)

        1) Open up the case
        2) Find the sound hardware
        3) Locate the digital to analog converter used for output
        4) Solder wires to its input connections (you may need to remove the converter to prevent a voltage drop)
        5) Find any compatable sound card which allows for input
        6) Find its A/D converter.
        7) Solder the other ends of your wires to its output connections (you may need to remove the converter to prevent a volta
        • It's even easier than that, since not only does a pirate have to just beat one scheme, they only have to modify a single device to make perfect copies of a album/movie/whatever that will run on unmodded devices.
          • Pirates know how to sail, and attack ships, murder people, loot. The usually have wooden legs, and aye patches.
            You are speaking about bootleggers maybe. Illegal distributors. Criminals.

            Piracy is a bad term to use, because it is used to call me a criminal when I rip my cds and bring them to my workplace to enjoy them here.

            The record companies are calling "pirates" everybody who wants to copy copyrighted works, even when they do it in their own right.

            That causes a confusion, because you are referring to so
      • It was a perfectly clean post, but I feel dirty having read that.
    • >As much as I hate DRM, this was really a necessary move.

      Yeah, exactly. When the customer doesn't choose the DRM format, they need to get it shoved down their throats. Totally prudent. It totally obviates the problems with ridiculous licensing and copyright lawsuits and makes them the defacto standard for interacting with media in the information age. There never was a problem with the idea of "protected digital music", just with the underlying technology.
  • there's nothing that can be done to stop it.

    Sure, there will always fringe development or adoption of non-DRM tech, but it's pretty much here to stay now - end of story.

  • Combat Piracy? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:52PM (#11434968)
    They keep making that typo. They mean Combat Privacy.
  • This is what i would like to do. Play DRMed content on any of the devices i own, without doing "illegal" stuff like re-ripping them and removing DRM. Till then, all these just dosent make any sense.

    Users should be able to activate any DRM enabled device they own and play any DRMed content they have bought. This seems to be a good step in that direction.

    • Re:So can i play iTunes songs on Sony media theate (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF ( 813746 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:22PM (#11435327)

      Users should be able to activate any DRM enabled device they own and play any DRMed content they have bought. This seems to be a good step in that direction.

      Big companies like this do not collaborate to make things easier on consumers. They collaborate to make money. DRM makes money not by preventing piracy (the official line). It makes money by making you buy more than one copy of each movie, song, book, picture, or whatever. If you want something to work across all your devices, don't expect that to happen with DRM. If the media companies wanted that to happen, they would not put DRM on in the first place. If you think your DVDs will play in your HD-3D-DVD-extreme2 player, or that there will be any legal way to copy them to a format that does work in that player a few years down the road, then you are just wrong.

      Note, they can also make a small amount of money via advertising through DRM. If your DVD player cannot skip commercials, media companies can make more money putting them on your DVDs.

      If you think DRM standards will benefit you, you are probably very mistaken.

      • Big companies like this do not collaborate to make things easier on consumers. They collaborate to make money.

        Very insightful, and true. Perhapsy that is why so many consumers collaborate to make things easier for themselves and don't worry about if it hurts Big companies. (Bit torrent, for example.)

  • Who was praising Sony? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:53PM (#11434985) Homepage Journal
    Just a few articles below. [slashdot.org]
    Admit. Then bend over. Spanking time.

  • And in other news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:53PM (#11434988)
    And in other news, the four most successful Cackers today announced an alliance to work together and crack this system in record time. In a joint statement released they commented, "It's all so much easier now that there's only one system to worry about."

    W00t!

  • That'll save us the time of breaking a bunch of new schemes.

    For Christ's sake, how about working on the content instead of the wrapper?

    • "...how about working on the content instead of the wrapper?"

      Hmmm. I can see you've never been involved with sales.... ever. :-)

      Did you know there are still people buying the Matrix video game. It sucks. Everyone knows it sucks. Magazine reviewers (who were't bought-off) warned of its suckiness. But people still buy it.

  • New DRM.. (Score:2, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) *
    "Look dear, there's a box with buttons and wires on it that came with our new DVD player."
    "What does it say on that card?"
    "Attach wires to genitals, then read card. How odd. Well, when in Rome..." *zip* *fwit* *squitch* *squitch*
    "Ok, the card says 'Read this Phrase aloud, I will not copy DVD's'"
    "I will not copy DVD's. Hey a light came on which says 'LIE'"     *BZZOWNT* "Yaaaaarrrrrggghhhhh!!!!"

  • Riiiiiight (Score:5, Funny)

    by Erik Fish ( 106896 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:56PM (#11435030) Journal
    Remember a few years ago when all future hard drives were going to have DRM built into them? There was even an alliance of all the big hard drive manufacturers of the time.

    The headline should read "Consumer Electronics Companies Promise They Won't Cum In Hollywood's Mouth"

    • the hardware providers aren't doing anything to the content providers - that's what CONSUMERS are for. That way, when hardware manufacturers and the content providers get together, they can take turns doing to consumers what they want. They might even make some bad porn (although when the consumers figure out what's been done to them and to copyright law it may end up being a snuff film of sorts).

  • the future of DRM... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bani ( 467531 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:56PM (#11435036)
    1. develop some new drm, employ it on all your devices.
    2. some years later, your drm is on nearly every product sold. your standard is entrenched. success!
    3. some hacker in (some country outside us jursidiction) cracks your drm with a pocket calculator and releases the crack to the world. hundreds of millions of drm devices are effectively neutered.
    4. ...
    5. er, profit?

  • Notice who is missing? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LWATCDR ( 28044 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @03:57PM (#11435039) Homepage Journal
    I do not see Apple?
    Seems like a big oversite to me.
    • Despite concerns over the lack of Apple support for Marlin, Sony believes that working together with Matsushita, Samsung and Philips as an alliance can bring the numbers in their favour

      Yeah. when your up against the 85% market share and you have 4 companies whose total music share is 4%, you're really going to be unstoppable.
    • Not really. Apple's already done their dirty work for them, by helping consumers accept the idea of DRM (aka FairPlay), and thus Apple has got no need to help its competitors. If Marlin DRM ever takes off, it will be trivial for Apple to support it, since it'll be a "real" standard.

      If you want to wage war against DRM, I suggest you start with Apple, who's actively pushing and gaining acceptance for it, rather than some new vaporware industry group.

      -Erwos
  • they are smoking a joint the size of a marlin.

  • Don't fool yourself (Score:5, Insightful)

    by big-magic ( 695949 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:00PM (#11435067)

    Don't fool yourself into thinking that just because all the previous DRM schemes were broken, that any new scheme will suffer the same fate. The crypto necessary to build good DRM exists. It's just that in the past, engineers ignored the advice of crypto experts and developed their own methods. All of which were broken. But I think they are learning from their mistakes.

    Of course, this means that there will need to be a single digital-analog-digital iteration to remove the DRM. As someone said, if I can play it, I can record it. I just may not be able to record the original digital data

    • Re:Don't fool yourself (Score:5, Insightful)

      by meringuoid ( 568297 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:09PM (#11435182)
      Don't fool yourself into thinking that just because all the previous DRM schemes were broken, that any new scheme will suffer the same fate. The crypto necessary to build good DRM exists.

      Actually, I think that DRM will always be crackable.

      The problem is not really one of encryption; you can use as strong a cipher as you like. The problem is that the user has to be able to decrypt your message. So, somewhere encoded into the software, or on a chip on a circuit board, is the key. Get that key and the scheme is compromised.

      If the system is being implemented as an industry standard, then it'll be done a thousand times by a thousand different manufacturers. Sooner or later someone'll pull a Xing and give us an easy way in. Even if They are careful, and enforce strict standards on how their secret keys are implemented, well... Sony put an awful lot of work into making the PS2 refuse to play pirate games, but how long did it take before there were modchips?

      I'm pretty optimistic about this. A cryptosystem in which the recipient himself is the enemy is a system which is doomed to be cracked.

      • Trusted Computing is the problem... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by rbird76 ( 688731 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @05:51PM (#11436310)
        As someone else pointed out on this thread, the problem isn't so much DRM as it is Trusted Computing. As of now, if the DRM is cracked, both the crack and the cracked material will be on the Web shortly. New DRM leads to new cracks which quickly follow.

        The "Trusted Computing/Palladium/whatever title we come up with to disguise our intentions" initiative is more threatening. In that case, unless it is cracked as well, which will be harder because of strong crypto and no analog hole, each person that wants to remove the DRM on their copy has to break it themselves, which is not going to happen. They will be unable to download the crack, DMCA will prevent mass distribution of a physical crack, and the de-DRM'd material won't be available (because the OS won't let you). Once each crack has to be done individually, they can DRM to the heart's delight and it will be very hard for their victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hconsumers to stop them.

        A system with the customers as the enemy is stable if 1) the users can't gang up (TC : check) and 2) they have no alternative to get content. (politician purchase and redemption program : check). DRM is a speed bump. TC is like nuking all of the cars and most of the roads, and making everyone use public transit which only stops at stores.

      • Re:Don't fool yourself (Score:4, Insightful)

        by BillyBlaze ( 746775 ) <tomfelker@gmail.com> on Friday January 21, 2005 @06:42PM (#11436921)
        While your argument is correct, I think it's very dangerous thinking, because it ignores the practical ease with which the restrictions can be circumvented. Ideally it would be legal and easy. Currently, it's illegal but still easy - all it takes is software, and thankfully, governments currently can't effictively stop the flow of information (=software) between internet-connected nations. However, if you just crawl into your hole of optimism for the next few years, you'll wake up and realize that to excercize fair use rights, you'll need physical objects (modchips, soundcards that ignore watermarks, etc.) to excercize your fair use rights - and governments can control objects, especially those that need a fabrication lab to create, much more effectively. Yes, it will still be possible to "crack" the restrictions -- but if I have to buy used soundcards from shady guy in the alley with his eyes gouged out or swallow modchips wrapped in condoms to smuggle them into the Land of the Free from countries being bombed because the cyberterrorists they harbor create Weapons of Mass Circumvention - well, I think that would suck.
  • "Marlin Joint Development Association"? This can be abbreviated a few ways: either as the MJ Development Association or as the M. Joint Development Association.

    Both make me think of Marijuana, which is what these people must be smoking if they think a DRM scheme will defeat piracy.
  • Like OMA [openmobilealliance.org] DRM? There already is a common DRM standard supported by a lot of mobile product creators.
  • He said many firms readily admit that their DRM systems are little protection against skilled attackers such as the organised crime gangs that are responsible for most piracy.

    I, and most peoiple I know who have acquired pirated material, got it from file sharing apps and IRC. Are these really considered "organised" crime gangs? Probably the first time I've ever been accused of being organised.
    • In places in the world (Russia, Taiwan, China, probably the USA as well) Organized Crime, As in the MOB/Mofia/Yakuza/Triad/Etc... and people that do "piracy for a living" are the ones they are talking about. NOT people like you and me on IRC and Bit Torrent and such. They are talking about those who make actual money through piracy.
      • The mob are the ones who benefit from DRM. They have the resources to keep running, as they can stamp out exact copies using the same equipment the companies themselves use.

        By making it harder to trade files online (either technically, or legally), it will create extra demand for the black market (assuming the negative industry-wide PR doesn't reduce total demand so much that everyone loses ... which is quite possible).

  • New Contenders (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:11PM (#11435214) Homepage
    You know, I always have wondered what its like to watch giant corporations tumble and new comers rise in their place. We've seen it with the startups, and if these companies keep up this ignorance, we'll see it again with consumer electronics.

    The people WILL get what they demand, whether its illegal or not (see the War on Drugs and Prohibition for proof).

    The market place has spoken about what they want, and if these companies can't provide it without putting cumbersome, restrictive DRM on it that only benefits the content producers, well...sounds like a ripe opening in the marketplace for someone to come in and give the public EXACTLY what they want at a fair price and then watch the big companies stumble over themselves to compete or litigate.

  • No Apple, No Microsoft... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rsborg ( 111459 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:15PM (#11435255) Homepage
    Obmission of these two giants in the industry means that the four firms realize that:
    1. People want a single authentication mechanism
    2. WMA and Fairplay DRM are strong and they need to band together to have any impact
    3. They can't trust or rely on either MS or Apple to get what they want
    4. As the BBC article points out, it's all about profits.
    Unfortunately, for them, I feel that it's probably too little too late. Apple is dominant, and Microsoft has the rest. Perhaps they can get all those other sites (Walmart, Napster, BuyMusic) to switch to their DRM scheme, but so far, the only real formats supported in the industry are 1) unDRMed mp3, 2) m4p (fairplay/harmony), and 3) WMA.

    These guys are late to the game, and trying, desperately, to keep their ever-shrinking marketshare and margins by playing a game they don't know how to win. I wish them luck, but I forsee Sony adopting WMA or fairplay in a few years.

  • Legal Copying? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by natpoor ( 142801 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:16PM (#11435268) Homepage
    Nowhere in either of the articles do I see a mention of "legal copying", although that's what I expected. As an academic, we need to be able to make copies sometimes, and US law allows us to do so (see the law at Cornell [cornell.edu]). I feel, as may /.'ers, that the DMCA conflicts with this (did they ever amend it?).

    However, as citizens, regardless of whether we are in a democracy, a supposed democracy, or some other less fortunate type of rulership, the Western belief is that our inalienable rights include the freedom of speech, which in this digital age may mean copying something for criticism, be it from the government or a corporation. These corporations should not be allowed to get away with this, but they will.

    • Re:Legal Copying? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      An acquaintance of mine used to live in Soviet Russia (no joke...) and taught music at a university. Because the State was concerned that people use media players (record players) to replay media they did not like, access to certain players and certain media were controlled. In her case, to teach a music course and provide music samples in the class, the record/tape players had to be queued ahead of time and operated remotely by someone else (outside of the room) to ensure that she didn't use the media fo
      • It'll be even worse than Soviet era in a sense, since at least the state was nominally accountable to the people and wasn't in the censorship business for profit (in fast, it cost them a lot of money to maintain it).

        With corporations, not only will whatever you see or hear have to be supporting the causes that they want, you will pay through the nose for it. Consumer choice my ass when only a handful of corporations have the needed scale to survive, and their top executives are all in cahoots.
  • As long as the DRM allows me to use the music every way I'm legally allowed without a single hindrance or annoyance, fantastic.

    Of course it won't, meaning that I'll be burdened as a consumer and less likely to *be* a consumer of such annoyances.

  • The meager good news if this project succeeds is that prices (for music, movies, etc.) are going to plummet because there's no way I'm buying into this marlin carp, errr... crap without some kind of bribery. I suspect most home users are the same way, even my mother-in-law.

    Look at it this way -- garbage ideas like self-destructing 48 hour DVD's sold at $5 each is a marketing disaster. BUT, if they were 50 cents each, even I would have to consider trying them. The trick to making it work is somewhere betw

  • Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Migraineman ( 632203 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:25PM (#11435357)
    I don't see how this can work, unless the only choice for a playback device is one with DRM. If a non-DRM playback solution exists, there's motivation to rip to a non-DRM format and share.

    The only way I see that the DRM Cartel can eliminate the non-DRM elements is through force of law. Expect the Cartel to purchase legislation making it illegal to even think about a non-DRM'd device. They'll surround themselves with a defensive battery of copyrights and patents. Oh, and to dodge the anti-trust laws in the US, expect the DRM Cartel to license the DRM technology to anyone willing to pay the extortion fee and accept the draconian usage license. Just like the SD Card Association. [sdcard.org]

  • Impossible. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phorm ( 591458 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:26PM (#11435362) Journal
    The problem I see with DRM is that it's impossible to make it work without breaking either existing compatability or fair-use.

    You can't stop the "evil dirty pirates" from copying discs without stopping the home user who just wants to make a backup/archival/play-on-my-laptop-while-I'm-travel ling copy.

    Making a new format that people will have to move to means making it incompatible with older devices.

    Making a device that complies with fair-use laws in various countrie is well nigh impossible too. I believe some places that *do* believe in proper fair use mean that you have to allow personal reproduction.

    Oh, and Get this media companies. The analogue loop still exists. So long as your device needs to plug into my TV, it can also plug into my computer. So long as it needs to work with my headphones, it will plug into my soundcard. I don't need 20923x19334 pixels of resolution and 1024kbps-megasurround... and the people transferring the files online will be just as happy to view a scaled down version (hell, they're happy with cams).

    Your video player needs to be compatible with our TV's. It's not like everyone will rush out to buy a new TV because the existing one doesn't have your DRM-filled digital connector, nor will the new ones take over for many, many years.

    Stop restricting how we use our property, and how about focussing all that intelligence and co-operation on something more useful like features that *enhance* our viewing/listening experience.

    • Re:Impossible. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by learn fast ( 824724 )
      The problem I see with DRM is that it's impossible to make it work without breaking either existing compatability or fair-use.

      Which do you think they're going to convince Congress to ban: DRM or fair use?
    • What you have to understand is that DRM doesn't affect your legal right to make copies. It just impacts your practical rights. It's like when they sold cd's but no cd-burners. There was no practical way for most people to make a copy of a cd at that time. That's how it will be again.
  • Having only one standard will make it SO much easier to crack. Wouldn't it be nice if every bank vault had the identical combination?!
  • ..what does "illegal copying" mean, exactly.
    All copying is illegal? Copying for personal use/time or space shifting is OK? somewhere in the middle?

    Except for the original videotape decision, no one, incluing the courts, has really said.

    That is the question that needs to be answered before we start screaming about the evils of DRM. What constitutes "illegal copying"?

  • ...One ring to find them,
    One ring to bring them all
    And in the darkness bind them.

  • This is why you buy something like a Medion MD 7457 DVD player. I wouldn't buy from Sony, Phillips, Panasonic or Samsung before and gee, this really makes me want one now.

    All this crap'll do is increase the market share of the manufacturers that AREN'T foisting "features" their customers didn't ask for and FLAT OUT DON'T WANT.

  • There's an old saying (Score:2, Insightful)

    by hcob$ ( 766699 )
    Locks only keep honest people honest. Strict DRM is only going to make the average user turn away from anything that uses it. If history tells us anything it's that things created by man to protect information/goods from dis-honest men will be defeated. I believe it was Patton who said something to the effect of "anything built by man, can be conqured by man" (not a direct quote). All this will do is annoy the average person and keep the crackers busy for a few more days.
  • Why do they keep bothering with DRM?? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't have unbreakable encryption when it's the USER'S COMPUTER that has to do the decryption.

  • Quick question: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GeorgeH ( 5469 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @04:52PM (#11435697) Homepage Journal
    When the work enters the public domain in 90 or so years, and there are no more Rights to Digitally Manage, will the DRM allow complete access to the work?

    No?

    OK, just be sure to include a sticker that says "This product contains DRM that is the digital equivelant of the burning of the Library of Alexandria."

  • If interoperability is important... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by yeremein ( 678037 ) on Friday January 21, 2005 @05:37PM (#11436169)
    ...just eschew DRM entirely.

    I'm serious. Please put down your tomatoes, **AA, and listen.

    It doesn't matter what form(s) of DRM you use; it will be defeated, and your content will find its way to P2P networks, bootleggers, and so forth. DRM just punishes honest customers.

    Yet another DRM standard, even one with multiple backers, is an inferior solution to no DRM at all.

    If I can't make a copy to listen to in the car, or play in my MP3 player thats older than the last eight DRM standards but perfectly usable otherwise, Im not interested.

    Likewise, if I have to get permission from the publisher to read a book I've already paid for after I upgrade my computer, I wont buy it.

    If I cant make unencumbered backup copies, then I havent bought anything. Ive just leased some media until my hard drive crashes, or I get a new computer, or the DRM du jour goes out of style, or the file format becomes obsolete. I refuse to shell out cold hard cash for media effectively printed on disappearing ink.

    Almost any imaginable content is available, free and unrestricted, online. While I dont condone piracy myself, I cant understand how you hope to encourage people to pay for their media by offering a vastly inferior product in exchange.
  • since it's going to be unified, its' going to be easier to crack and hack the mp3 players to play it. I think that in this case the multitude of formats was the strength of DRM, multiple strengths divided to crack protection. Now they're going to unify... I won't be in it though.
  • "Systems that limit what people can do with the files they download are known as Digital Rights Management systems."

    I love the BBC

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