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Hardware Software Linux

Using The Gyration Media Center Remote With Linux 111

Posted by timothy from the make-it-so-wirelessly dept.
Bruce Perens writes "The Gyration Media Center Remote is a radio keyboard and mouse with 100-foot range. The mouse uses an accelerometer rather than a mouse wheel, and thus has the unique feature that you can make mouse gestures in the air. The mouse should be perfect for a public speaker who wants to move around during a speech, without giving up control of his laptop. It would also make a nifty remote for a Linux PVR user, since it has VCR controls and channel and volume buttons. But does it work with Linux?" Bruce Perens tried it out and says the answer is a qualified Yes.
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Using The Gyration Media Center Remote With Linux More

Using The Gyration Media Center Remote With Linux

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  • Price qualifies for a big NO (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kosi ( 589267 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @06:52AM (#11198416)
    $ 180.- is very overpriced for a cordless keyboard and mouse, even with this fancy mouse-in-the-air.
    • This remote has a 100ft, through the walls, range... That makes it the only way to work on a PC in the other room as far as I know.

      Pit that cost against making the mythical and practically impossible "silent PC"

      Not overpriced. Only a pitty that I can't buy a replacement for mine in Belgium. (My daughter threw it to the floor and busted some keys)
      • This remote has a 100ft, through the walls, range

        As every class I bluetooth device. Nothing special about it.

        That makes it the only way to work on a PC in the other room as far as I know.

        If you like to "work" on a PC without being able to look on the screen, I won't object. But I like to see what I'm doing. :-) So, unless you also have a cordless display, the "through walls" aspect is pretty useless.

        OTOH, all those BT cordless keyboard and mouse sets I have seen so far are horribly overpriced, just r
        • As every class I bluetooth device. Nothing special about it.

          And there you go, a well deserved "RTFA". Now, the obligatory exerpt from TFA:

          "However, all of the Bluetooth remote controls and remote mice available today are Class 3, and only have about 30 feet range"
          • "However, all of the Bluetooth remote controls and remote mice available today are Class 3, and only have about 30 feet range"

            I must admit that this is correct, as the 100 meter solution I had in mind to prove this false is in fact using a kind of repeater, it's not "native".

            OK, but $180 is still expensive just for Class 1.
        • If you like to "work" on a PC without being able to look on the screen, I won't object. But I like to see what I'm doing. :-) So, unless you also have a cordless display, the "through walls" aspect is pretty useless.

          As we are talking about controlling you mediaPC, yes I do have that on a wireless screen, ie. my TV connected to a RF AV transmitter/receiver.
          And as my mediaPC is a knoppmyth installation, I can even #bash away on a large res tty, from my couch, on my TV.

          Tell me again that's not worth $17
          • yes I do have that on a wireless screen

            OK, then it is really useful. But how many others have a wireless screen, too?

            Tell me again that's not worth $175.

            Not if I take the prices for a keyboard and a gyro-mouse and add a sensible extra charge for the BT interface.
    • You might want to try one before you knock it. I thought the exact same thing when I bought mine over a year ago (i was already planning on returning it when I bought it). After spending a couple hours with it I couldnt give it up.

    • Re:Price qualifies for a big NO (Score:4, Informative)

      by The Spoonman ( 634311 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @09:10AM (#11198915) Homepage
      very overpriced for a cordless keyboard and mouse

      Especially if the quality is anywhere near the original Ultra GT set. I bought this set for use with my HTPC, and after only a year, half the keys don't work and both of the mouse buttons are stuck in the down position. A quick look at their store tells me I'm prolly not the only one since they've got enough returns on them to open a "refurbished" store.
      • Funny, I have mine packaged up to be RMA'd right now because half the keys don't work.
      • I have the original too (or anyway, and older one). While the mouse still works fine after a year, the keyboard became progressively more prone to drop keystrokes after about a month and is now completely unusable. I'll not be getting any more hardware from this company -- and it's not the only company offering a gyroscope mouse, either.
    • The ultra is just fine. If you need a full remote, get a nice all-in-one on the side, it's still cheaper than the Media Center package and will work better. I use mine with a Fedora Core 3 system running MythTV and I had to do absolutely zero to get it to work perfectly right out of the box.

  • Good hardware (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Pieroxy ( 222434 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @06:53AM (#11198417) Homepage
    While I like the remote and keyboard a lot, there are two major issues for me to be the ultimate wireless combo for my media center:

    1. They don't release it in Europe and don't plan to. RF norms are different over here...
    2. There are no numbers, which means no keypad onto the remote. Painful if you want to switch from channel 1 to channel 74...

    But otherwise, I've seen these at work and they are awsome. You can use the remote/mouse either as a regular optical mouse, or you can press a bice button and you can use it by just moving it in the air. After a 2 min practice, it's very usable.

    I'd like one so much......
    • So then I guess I've been controlling my KnoppMythbox illeagally for the last year or so...

      Oh well....
    • Look here. [gyration.com]

      We use these all the time at work (a UK high school) for use with the interactive whiteboards. Very cool devices, good range, the 3D use takes a bit of getting used too and works well - but the teachers can always use the pens on the whiteboard.

      The mice charge up in a cradle and the keyboards take 4xAAA (or AA?) batteries that last for months.

      Dead easy to setup too... No drivers needed so I'm pretty sure Linux support should work (haven't had a chance to sneak a set off-site yet and try
    • Painful if you want to switch from channel 1 to channel 74
      Use the down button :) its only a single channel away. (bah, mod me down if you want, the parent could have been more specific and said "painful if you want to quickly switch between far-away channels")
    • That doesn't make any sense. I just looked at my layout. It's a Frensh layout keyboard!!

      Why bother making a french layout if your not going to sell in france.

  • Fine print caveat (Score:5, Funny)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @06:53AM (#11198419)


    > The mouse uses an accelerometer rather than a mouse wheel, and thus has the unique feature that you can make mouse gestures in the air.

    "Not recommended for use on airplanes, spacecraft, ships, boats, elevators, or rollercoasters."

  • Funny name.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by kaedemichi255 ( 834073 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @07:07AM (#11198463)
    Is that a gyration media center remote in your pants, or are you just happy to see me?

  • Computers, BAH (Score:5, Insightful)

    by anum ( 799950 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @07:15AM (#11198488)
    How often have we seen this:
    "And the good news is that a properly-configured Linux system will work with the device. But it took me a while to figure out that my system wasn't configured properly."

    And this is BRUCE PERENS for goodness sake! If he can't get it right who can? I realise that he did figure it out but it sounds like it was frustrating and I can imagine how much more frustrating it would be for someone who doesn't understand the system as well as he does. NOTE: I said THE SYSTEM not Linux!

    I just had an issue with an old flatbed scanner on WinXP for instance. It works fine on the system it usually stays on but refuses to work on my new laptop or any other system. I'm sure that "my system wasn't configured properly." And if I knew what to change it would work.

    On the other hand, I have several remotes including two from http://www.hometheatermaster.com/ [hometheatermaster.com] which have always worked flawlessly with all kinds of consumer equipment. TVs, Radios, DVD players you name it. They just work. When will PCs catch up? I don't care if it runs MS or Linux or BSD (though open source is prefered) if it just works it will be an improvement. Maybe it's time to try Apple after all?

    I'm glad he got it to work but from the quote above I doubt that I could. The plus side of Linux and open source in general is that I could probably find someone to help me out but it's not guaranteed.

    Oh well, I guess that scanner thing annoyed me more than I thought! Sorry for the rant.

    • Re:Computers, BAH (Score:5, Informative)

      by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) <bruce@perens.com> on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @07:47AM (#11198582) Homepage Journal
      I did learn a lesson from this which will be applied to UserLinux. The installer was putting "usbmouse" in the modules list instead of "usbhid", it's not going to do that any longer. This is the result of evolution in Linux drivers - the HID driver came after the USB keyboard and mouse drivers, takes over their job and does it better, although this was not communicated well enough for me to find out until now. I agree that "mere mortals" have zero chance of finding this out and can only hope that their system installation program gets it right.

      Thanks

      Bruce

      • Re:Computers, BAH (Score:5, Insightful)

        by iabervon ( 1971 ) on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @12:22PM (#11200318) Homepage Journal
        You're right to fault the communication rather than the documentation. The 2.6.4 config help for CONFIG_USB_MOUSE (which gives usbmouse) says "If even remotely unsure, say N." The help for CONFIG_USB_HID says "If unsure, say Y." Once you say what the problem is, it's trivial to find why it's wrong, but finding the solution in the first place is difficult (especially if the symptom is "basic mouse functionality works, but not more"). It's particularly difficult to realize that you're doing something wrong when the answer used to be that Linux didn't support the extra features.

        As for improving the communication, it would be nice if information could be used in checking over installers out of the kernel documentation. Since people tend to say M for everything possible, it would be really nice if there were a way to get from a module name to the help for it, and also get the suggestion automatically. Then you could take a module list and say, "Is there anything discouraged that I'm loading? Is there anything encouraged that I'm not loading?"
    • BP is smart. Quite smart. Very smart. But he is human. He's liable to make a mistake just like anyone else. If he had an issue, you cannot expand it to everyone who isn't as smart, as he is likely to make a mistake. Furhter more, because one person makes a mistake, it doesn't mean everyone will or everyone won't.


      All we have is, a really smart person couldn't do it. Maybe you need a consensus to make sure it wasn't his own fault and that other people can do it, or the opposite.


      • aww comeon. if it wasn't the word 'module' but driver there'd be no complaint. you'd just say "ahah, we need the handy new one-driver-fits-all" and be done with it. what bruce doesn't mention (and not to his discredit) is that the 'driver' usbhid (USB Human Input Device) is already stock with most current kernels, no download, or install CD's required.

        linux is easy, don't make it hard ;)
        • Buh? Who said anything about drivers and modules? If a lot of people can't figure it out, that's bad, no?


          If Bruce couldn't figure it out from the get-go, much less any random shmo, it has a flawed interface. It's been argued and argued again: intuitive interfaces are hard. Easy interfaces are harder.


          Linux is hard. Computing in general is hard. Only things that are easy are 4 function calculators. Minus those stupid "c" and "ce" buttons.

          • sporty, if the only thing that is easy is a '4 function calculator', then our set of all-things-hard has just widened beyond the scope of this thread.
            • If you are being sarcastic, ever try and use a VCR for the first time? Every menu for every vcr is different from the last. So you have to sit there and plug away at it until you thoroughly understand it.

              This is what it's like for people who have never used comptuers for the first time. For people like me, maybe you, who grew up with computers, we have the advantage that there are traditions are always there. Back in the DOS days, you had a driver you had to load. Now in the linux days, it's a modul


              • sure i see what your saying. having spent 3 days trying to learn the user-unfriendly OSX desktop environment for a project, i can relate; any new technology presents itself as a difficulty. that said i think we are talking about different sizes of fish.

                given the plethora of difficulties one can have with machines, with people, with uninstalling photoshop and with baking pastry, 'modprobe -r usbmouse usbkb && modprobe usbhid' is not too formidable.

                if the user of this device is a linux user (as i
    • They just work or not, and you are stuck. I spent 200$ on an all-in-one for a relative. It had a video screen to have programmable labels on the buttons and a learn mode. It didn't work with the VCR or TV. They were too old, learn mode didn't help. I returned it, and got a new VCR instead.

      The cheap all-in-ones don't work either. I have a VCR and DVD players There is a complete lack of standardization among CE devices. That is why there are error prone "learn" modes, and lookup tables for all the differe

      • Ya, I actually agree. Kind of.

        As I mentioned I think I was just blowing off some steam above and I probably just got trapped in DLL hell for a while there.

        Most of what you say is true. Every programmer I know, myself included, has at least had the thought "why can't I get in there and redesign that my self." The GPL, Linux and open source is giving us that opportunity. And about time. Most companies have not found good ways to use this "new way" but it is starting to happen anyway. See the excitemen
        • Can you think of ANY product that meets this ideal?

          No, but, for at least the basic functions, cars seemed to have converged nicely in the last ten to fifteen years. Cars have the steering wheel in the same place, and one generally has to be in a prescribed seat to drive them. I cannot recall ever seeing the clutch or break pedals on the right of the accellerator. The speedometer seems to always be in roughly the same place, and even the other gauges, in the last few years have gotten closer to standardize

    • I don't know, I've had this one http://www.gyration.com/ultragt-compact.htm for nearly two years. I love the compact keyboard as it works very well for my very short and stubby fingers. However, I remember buying and thinking "Hmmm. how hard will this be to make work". I plugged in the usb receiver, rebooted and added USB HID to my X configuration and it worked immediately.

      Maybe SuSE is just better? (Figured I would get an ad in on an ad)

      Btw, I LOVE mine.
  • - with lesser range. See eg this one: http://www.savastore.com/productinfo/product.aspx? catalog_name=Savastore&product_id=10278959&pid=44

    I wonder if the soldering fairy is able to retrieve back some of that range though...
    • I have a wireless mouse that communicates with its own geostationary satellite.
      I can use it anywhere from within the UK, and surrounding parts of Europe.
      It works a treat, and allows me to mouse from anywhere.
      However, after a few seconds of use, the dish and battery pack makes my arm somewhat tired and I have to drop it quick.

      Does anyone know where I can get some steroids from? ;)
    • but only in QWERTY layout, which makes it effectively useless for all Europe but the UK. Nice try though.

  • More Fancy Input Devices for Linux (Score:3, Informative)

    by wehe ( 135130 ) <wehe&tuxmobil,org> on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @08:58AM (#11198855) Homepage Journal
    There are many more fancy input devices working with Linux available, e.g. the Twiddler [tuxmobil.org] a tiny wrist keyboard made by Handykey.com [handykey.com], different Linux applications featuring your cell phone as a remote control [tuxmobil.org] and the WireLess NoteBook Presenter [targus.com] made by Targus; to name just a few. BTW: The WireLess NoteBook Presenter doesn't feature mouse gestures in the air, you have to provide mouse events by pushing a mouse button, but it works with Linux out of the box and seems much cheaper.

  • Works for me (Score:2, Informative)

    by robsteele ( 158510 )
    I've been using their full size keyboard and mouse with Fedora for a year. They're just USB devices to Linux. They reduce clutter and are great for conference rooms because they're easy to pass around between speakers. Make sure you have plenty of batteries though.
  • ...found that most times I needed the keyboard nearby, too. With my home media computer in the living room, a high WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) was a must, and she thought the mouse was usable, even kinda "neat."

    However, it uses NiMH batteries, and discharges itself almost every other day, so must be re-cradled nightly to avoid going kaput in the middle of the evening. Also, my experience was that the range of the keyboard was as advertised, but the mouse range was lacking.

    We settled, instead, for the V
  • even if Olivetti got there first with their ultrasound and radio pointing devices. (From the same English stable as VNC)

  • Remote Wonder (Score:3, Informative)

    by Chanc_Gorkon ( 94133 ) <gorkon.gmail@com> on Tuesday December 28, 2004 @12:01PM (#11200134)
    I have a ATI Remote Wonder and I love this thing. It also works with Linux as well as Windows and Mac OS X.

    http://remotew.free.fr/linux_en.htm

  • these are cool (Score:2, Informative)

    by comet69 ( 198367 )
    I have one as well, but not this particular model.. and it doesn't look like a remote control.. it looks like an actual mouse.. but it can ergonomically fit in your hand when you use it gyroscopically.. and when you set it down on a nice flat surface, it works just like a regular optical mouse..

    i love it.. its fun getting use to using the mouse the gyroscopic way.. something different.. cool feel.. and ya don't need a surface.. if your arm gets tired, put the bitch on the table and its all good.. can't go
  • Anything works with Linux, as long as you have drivers for it. Therein lies the problem....

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