Sony and Sharp Backing LCD TVs Over Plasma? 249
LostCluster writes "Several reports out of Toyko are indicating that Sony intends on dropping out of the plasma TV business and ramping up productions of LCD TVs instead. Meanwhile rumors have it that Sharp is planning on investing US$1.9 billion on an LCD production plant."
Sony deny it (BBC link) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sony deny it (BBC link) (Score:3, Informative)
"It was discovered on the 20th that Sony is considering reducing the scale of its plasma TV manufacturing and sales business. There is also the possibility that it will withdraw entirely from the market next year. Currently Sony manufactures and sells plasma, LCD and rear-projection types of slim TVs, but with the continued increase in size of LCD screens, it is looking at concentrating its business resources on LCD and rear-projection units, thereby increasin
Not surprising (Score:3, Insightful)
Will this bring prices down? (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, any Slashdotters have recommendations on going with a plasma vs an lcd? Power usage, heat, image quality, overall life of product?
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:5, Informative)
3 new LCD plants have opened that i'm aware of so we may get lucky and see that saturation..
HOWEVER, Buyer-Be-Ware - Not all tv's are the same. Look at those resulutions, refresh rates and pixel speeds before forking out the cash. Make sure you only buy from a place with a satisfaction guarantee & warranty.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2)
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:3, Interesting)
If I didn't already have a 54" back projection TV I'd be in the market for a decent LCD screen.
That said: LCD displays rely on (non-user replacable) fluorescent(?) tubes and they can blow or dim as well: but from what I've seen LCDs are much cheaper than plasma screens.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:4, Informative)
This was improved a couple of years ago. Current plasma tv's will last roughly a decade before reaching the half-dimmed point.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:3, Informative)
But on an LCD you just replace the backlight, no?
Plasma just seems like a dud to anyone educated about it.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:3, Informative)
This is inaccurate and misleading from several perspectives.
First of all, plasma brightness loss is related to hours of use, not time in general. That means that whatever dimming you get is proportional to the hours you have the thing on -- so saying "after only two years of use" is a bit bizarre, unless you're talking about leaving the thing
Prices for flat-screens TVs will be dropping (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, making CRTs is a cast-iron bitch.
They're cheap because of economies of scale and engineering experience.
Plasmas and LCDs, on the other hand, have (IIRC) direct connections to the pixels to light them up. No steering of a beam involved - just switching electronics, which we've gotten really good at in the last few decades.
Now we're just waiting for economies of scale to knock down the prices, and engineering experience to make manufacturing more efficient.
Twenty or thirty years from now, I'd bet a flat-screen TV can be had for the equivalent of a few hundred bucks.
Do not go plasma. (Score:5, Informative)
Plasmas are good money makers because the bigger ones are not really that more expensive to make. Getting under 42" actually costs more. LCDs are the opposite.
I have the old fashioned project 5-CRT based HDTV widescreen and have looked at LCD based solution. My opinion, unless you just have to have it NOW wait till later in the year as the prices have been dropping a lot lately and can only get better.
GO plasma... (Score:4, Informative)
Plasma Myths [engadget.com]
LCD's also have lousy contrast ratios and poor refresh rates compared to Plasma. However, in the market, one technology doesn't automatically trump another. You gotta shop SMART. Currently there are some good LCD screens that outperform some poor Plasma screens. So just buying Plasma doesn't guarantee you a better picture over LCD. It really depends on how much money you're willing to spend.
Eventually LCD's are going to catch up and surpass Plasmas but that's not the case now or in the near future (next year or so).
I myself have a demo Panasonic 42PX20 that has about 6000+ hours on it and I've not noticed any brightness changes at all. My only complaint is that the picture isn't as good as a CRT. But that's true of all flat panels I've observed.
Important shopping tip kids: Contrast is the key, watch dark scenes. Most of the flat panel screens (LCD, Plasma and RPTV LCD screens) will crunch black. So as soon as you get to a dark scene, you don't see shades of gray, everything just goes to black. (Some TVs will auto-adjust their contrast/brightness to counter this but then you end up with brightntess shifts between bright and dark scenes).
Caveat Emptor!
Re:GO plasma... (Score:3, Informative)
Contrast is a big issue. AFAIK, there isn't an LCD screen that can match the black levels that I get with my plasma (there wasn't in July at least). Yeah, maybe my plasma won't be alive and kicking in 10 years. But I'll enjoy 10 years of dark scenes that are actually black instead of grey.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:5, Informative)
And, you HAVE to get the extended warrenty on a plasma (its stupid not to). The LCD extended warrenty is "optional." Most people don't take that into account. Besides, LCD's have a much longer life expectancy.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:3, Funny)
Can't you get fired from Circuit City for saying things like that?
Next you're going to tell me that my new laptop doesn't _really_ need this 1200W subwoofer.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2, Funny)
However, i AM in the laptop department, and i _know_ a laptop isn't REALLY a laptop without a 1200W subwoofer. AND, an extended warrenty (covers the laptop battery!)
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2)
Cheers.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:5, Interesting)
One time I had a Circuit City guy tell me all about home theater options. He told me the Sony stuff pretty much sucked for the price. He then offered me alternatives. I left and thought about my choices some. It was nice to get the real scoop on the products.
When I came back the next day the salesperson that helped me was actually a manager. He started pushing Sony so I told him what the person had said the day before. He got all indignant and wanted to know who that salesperson was. He said that Sony could punish the store for that sort of thing. When I asked him if they were forced to lie about all of their products & weren't actually interested in helping the customer get the best item, I was met by 10 seconds of silence. When he started into backtrack mode I politely informed him that since he was an asshole I would just go purchase my product online. That started an array of managers and owners trying to "help" me. It was awesome.
The regular employees are great though.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2)
Do any of the LCD tv's that have a great bang for the buck happen to include a digital tuner built in? Last time I looked there were lots of digital ready monitors, but no TV's other than NTSC analog. I'm looking for one that's not obsolete in 2 years without another purchase of a seprate tuner. 15-23 inch size would be nice. It shouldn't attempt to empty my nest egg. Price is important also. Price is a great killer of
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2)
LCD projection on the other hand, is cheaper, but doesn't have the same picture quality as either Plasma or LCD panels. Though it may be the best value, as you say.
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:3, Insightful)
The home theatre market is limited because of the space required and the high price tag. They are a relatively low volume product with lots of contenders for the limited consumers. You hinted you are considering a TV, but due to price you are holding off. Join the ranks.
The real void is TV's for the den, dorm, apartment, RV, kitchen, etc. Considering that analog is supposed to be gone
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2)
At that pricepoint it sounds like you're looking for a low resolution TV with a digital tuner. I would expect to see these the day after the FCC actually shuts off analog NTSC broadcasts to go all digital. There's no hurry to buy this now. They keep saying that day is coming, but the manufacterers are dragging their feet.
The
Re:Will this bring prices down? (Score:2)
LCD has better image quality, lower power usage, double the life of plasma, and it doesn't suffer from burn-in like plasma. The only thing I really give plasma is that it's faster. LCD is the superior technology by a long shot, imo.
Plasma and LCD technology is like watchmaking (Score:2)
There is one hope SED flat panel displays. Slash did an article a week ago. These use nonexpensive manufacturing processes but they wont be out for some time.
Not profitable? (Score:5, Interesting)
Early adopters might get burned on this one... we don't even know how long they last yet. How can a plasma screen fail? LCDs get annoying stuck pixels, CRT just pass out... what about plasma? Do we have an estimated life expectancy on those?
Re:Not profitable? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not profitable? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Not profitable? (Score:3, Interesting)
how on earth does anyone know that a plasma TV will last 15 years ?
Life Testing (Score:5, Informative)
Well, it's an estimate, but an educated one. At the manufacturing plants we do life testing where we burn in the test units for a specified amount of time (usually three months or more) often under some extreme environment. This is the routine life testing and doesn't even consider the tests which the original design models go through. Anyway, from what we learn from the life tests, we can estimate how long the sets will last in the consumer's homes. 15 years might be a bit optimistic, but it's not a bad estimate. In all honestly, I would put it closer to 10-12 years.
And yes, I make plasma TVs.
Re:Not profitable? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Not profitable? (Score:2, Funny)
And if that's the Playboy Channel, boy are you in trouble with your wife!
On the plus side... (Score:2)
lifetime (Score:2)
Baz
Re:lifetime (Score:2, Funny)
"I don't know whether to trust the three year warranty on my new Mercedes. After all, they said the Third Reich would last 1000 years and it only managed about 12."
Re:Plasma Failures (Score:2)
So you're TV has been turned on for the equivalent of 5+ years?(47,000 hr/(365 day/yr *24 hr/day))
Ot assuming you watch 8 hrs/day you've owned the TV for 16 years (47,000 hr/(8 hr/day*365 day/yr)?
Re:Plasma Failures (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Plasma Failures (Score:2)
BBC claims Sony is denying it... (Score:5, Informative)
Auntie Beeb [bbc.co.uk] claims that Sony are denying reports: it sounds as though industry analysts may be describing what Sony should do, rather than reporting what Sony is doing.
Re:BBC claims Sony is denying it, for good reason! (Score:2)
I'm willing to agree with you! However, the original point was that this was being reported as "fact", when it was little more than analysis and speculation (albeit highly informed, highly likely speculation).
Elsewhere posters have mentioned that Sony's demographic includes folk outwith other manufacturers' demographic - namely, the conspicuously wealthy. My feeling is that Sony can easily continue selling these people plasma screens for a good while, while other manufactures sell cheaper LCD screens to
well... (Score:4, Interesting)
let's wait for real info shall we ?
Plasma is in a stadium now where LCD was a few years back : cool technology but stuck in the circle of expensive->low sales->expensive->...
Give it some time.
Seems to make sense (Score:4, Interesting)
They're both nice things to have (Score:5, Informative)
The sensible person, of course, will wait 3 years and then pick up whatever is the best techology then, for a much nicer price. Of course, I did promise myself my next TV would be at least 40" on the diagonal, and plasmas are much better at these sizes than LCD TVs which generally top out at 30" for a lot of money.
Re:They're both nice things to have (Score:2)
Kibbee (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Kibbee (Score:3, Funny)
They also offer the most efficient hernia creation out there too, at any price.
36" Sony WEGA =~ 250lbs @ US$2100
vs
100" Optoma 939 front projector & screen =~ 20lbs @ US$1700
Re:Kibbee (Score:2)
Projectors are most competitive for insanely large sizes.
Re:Kibbee (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Kibbles-n-bits (Score:2, Informative)
Sorry, I meant the Sony WEGA 34" [sonystyle.com] model which, as you can see is spec'd at 194lbs unpacked. Packed it is in the 240-250 range. I know this, because a friend, against my counseling, bought one last month.
Re:Kibbee (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Kibbee (Score:2)
So for me, it wasn't bang for the buck, it was just a better viewing choice for what I like to watch. Of course it weighs a ton and is on the small side, but...
Re:Kibbee (Score:2)
Not likely to happen (Score:2, Insightful)
A wise decision (Score:2, Interesting)
- less lifetime
- more power consumption / heat
- less resolution
- deteriorating display quality
Is there even only one discipline where the point goes to plasma?
Re:A wise decision (Score:2)
Out of the box, plasma usually has a brighter, clearer display. It's almost false advertising in a way. Plasma looks clear and beautiful when you buy it, but it quickly fades.
Anybody have details on this new DLP technology? I know nothing about it except that it supposedly has the clarity of plasma without the long term fading.
Re:A wise decision (Score:2)
There are two more new display technologies that will gain on these in a few years: Field Emision Display (FED) and Organic Light Emmiting Diodes (oLED).
Plasma is overrated (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Plasma is overrated (Score:4, Informative)
Nice guess. The real killer is the plasma. Plasma is made of excited high speed atoms. (speed equates to heat at these geometries) If only a photon hit the phosphor then things would be fine, but the plasma (hot gas) hits the phosphor and sputters it away (much like a sputter dep tool or etcher in the manufacture of semiconductors). The display is a plasma etcher sputtering away the phosphors that produce the pretty colors.
In newer sets they are trying to reduce this erosion of the phosphors. I'm not sure how they are doing this, but a hot plasma near a soft phosphor still equates to some sputtering.
At least in an LCD TV, the lamp is replaceable for less than $50 in parts. (cold cathode tube) This is not the case in a plasma set.
Good News (Score:2, Interesting)
Brightness and noise (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:LED backlights will solve this (Score:2)
LEDs are catching up, but are still behind. OTOH, on very small displays, where very small comapct fluorescent tubes with much lower effiency have to be used, LEDs should have reached breakeven already.
And btw: the new high flux LEDs used for backlights are NOT long lived. luxons 5W emiteers have a half-intensity time of less than 5k hours.
Plus LEDS-backlights are MUCH more expensive. a big screen need
Some reasons why Plasmas are still good (Score:2, Informative)
- Display size. Plasma is available in much larger sizes, and is cheaper at the 42" size than LCD.
- Black level. Good plasma (i.e. those based on Panasonic glass) panels display a darker black. LCD blacks often are very bright gray - especially noticable when viewing in a dark room.
- Viewing angle. LCDs usually offer a narrower viewing angle than pla
We went with LCDs (Score:5, Interesting)
After some reasearch we chose LCDs due to the aging and burn-in issues of Plasma TVs. An LCD would be more expensive, but give us a much better life.
Other offices went with Plasma TVs instead. Fast forward a few years, now they are complaining about brightness issues, logo burn-ins, etc and they are budgeting to replace them. Our LCDs are happily chugging along.
So these news, true or not, do not come as a surprise to me.
Makes sense! (Score:3, Informative)
/insert flames from irate plasma TV owners below
Re:Makes sense! (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone who's seen the current Samsung HL-5063W DLP projection TV knows they've finally mastered the problems that plagued earlier DLP sets; for picture quality the current Samsung DLP sets are hard to beat. =)
Re:Makes sense! (Score:3, Funny)
The current lack of such responses indicates that irate plasma TV owners abstained from posting out of shame.
Paddington Station... (Score:2)
Let me see: they're on 24 hours a day and they tend to display the same image for very long periods of time. Can you guess what happened? Yup, within six months they were badly burnt, and after a couple of years they were nearly unreadable.
They've recently all been replaced with orange LED-grid displays. They're brighter, bigger, much easier to read, and probably have huge lifetimes.
I hat
Re:Paddington Station... (Score:2)
Not LCD. LED. The replacement screens are big matrices of mini amber LEDs. They don't get colour, but they also don't get ghosting, fading, burn-in, having to replace them every year, and big electrical bills.
Here we go again (Score:2)
Plasma cheap and high quality (Score:2)
http://www.plasmahouse.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId= 9 3- EVEREST-22213DKMLK838&ic=TH42PWD7UY
Panasonic plasmas 4000:1 contrast ratio actually is watchable in dark movies. LCD looks awful in dark scense. It's just a gray mess.
Why do you think all the professional users at TV News studios use Panasonic plasma and not LCD? Because it looks much better for video. Black is black not gray.
You don't need HDTV resolution at 42" if you are s
DLP for me! (Score:2)
I just stick with (Score:2, Funny)
Half open the blinds, and project porn onto them so that the whole street can watch!.
Whatever happened to Sony's GLV? (Score:3, Interesting)
The GLV itself isn't tough to build so I'm curious what the hang up was in getting GLV displays to market. Do lasers die young or did Sony just buy it to kill a competing technology?
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
The curent plasmas have pushed that time closer to nine years. Even though the 'two-year dimming plague' affected only plasmas that were made more than two or three years ago, the stigma lives on.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
It's the manufacturers own fault for putting out overpriced low quality screens.
If the new tech is so great, they should offer up low price upgrades to the early adopters, so they can in turn get the word out about the "new, better" versions.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
And it will continue to live on because retailers are not going to stop selling that old equipment that still suffers from this problem. Unless they pull the "faulty" (read: it's a feature) units off the shelves, people are just going to be exposed to these units and their problems, and it tarnishes the new units.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2, Informative)
I like to think of plasmas like old CRTs that you really needed a screen saver for.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Plasma may not be the best display option of the future, but 6 months ago when I needed a 42"+ screen that I could hang on the wall, it was about the only option. Not that I feel like I settled for inferior technology. The picture is jaw-droppingly good. Money well spent IMO.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
viewing angle ... bad pixels (Score:2)
But the view angle + illumination + contrast vote goes in favour of the Plasma.
Btw, won't a company prefer something with builtin obsolence - oh, wait, there's no monopoly yet
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:3, Informative)
Plus the gases diminish in quality over time. If you look at a Plasma that has been in use for two years next to the very same plasma tv you'll see the difference. I've done this very same thing. Plus the gases don't work as well in higher regions such as Colorado.
No problem with LCDs in Colorado and also no problems with burn in or quality decreasing over age. Also LCD TVs are lighter. A plasma TV weighs in at 60-100 LBs (average).
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:5, Informative)
The one-chip DLP method of displaying of an image basically paints the red, green and blue color parts of the image at different times rather than at the same time like most other display techs. This bothers some people, it is noticible to a lot of people if they move your eyes much when there are bright objects on a dark background. Some people feel nauseous because of this effect. It has been improved with faster color wheels but a lot of displays still use 2x speed color wheels.
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:2)
And resolution is worthless if you're feeding noisy over the air analogue signals. Same goes with contrast, color, etc. I'm not too sure our digital signals are clean enough to use.
Window screen effect? (Score:2)
Does the new Texas Instruments HD3 chip reduce that?
Chip H.
Re:Window screen effect? (Score:2)
Projector takes up more space? (Score:2)
That's the nice thing about a projector, you can mount it just about anywhere.
Re:Projector takes up more space? (Score:2)
That's the nice thing about a projector, you can mount it just about anywhere.
Sure you can, but a projector still requires quite some space. You need to have a certain distance between the projector and the wall (unless you get a wide angle lens - which can be quite costly).
Also, you have to get rid of anything that's obstructing the light beam. In a small apartment, tha
Re:LCD over Plasma? No brainer... (Score:2)
DLP sets and LCD sets of the same screen size have pretty much the same footprint. A 50" LCD set does NOT have a 50" LCD panel. It has a very small LCD panel, which is projected.
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Re:And why wouldn't they? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:And why wouldn't they? (Score:2)
Re:And why wouldn't they? (Score:2)
Betamax offered a superior picture quality and Amigas were better than PCs.
Re:When I first read that heading (Score:2)
Well, I found it funny, if that cheers you up! No mod points for me right now, but at least one mod also found it funny. I suspect the "offtopic" mods hammered you, though: -1 for off-topic (x2), +0 for funny. What a strange /. world in which we live, where hammering people when you don't get the joke works better than praising people when you do get the joke.