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Hardware Hacking Businesses

Getting a USB Peripheral Idea to Market? 67

Posted by Cliff from the turning-possibilities-into-realities dept.
WillAdams asks: "I have an idea for an almost embarrassingly simple USB device, which I believe would be fairly popular --- no hardware or device driver development skills though. Ideally I'd like to approach a company, hand the product idea off and just collect a small royalty. Unfortunately the most obvious choice doesn't accept product submissions. Any suggestions?"
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Getting a USB Peripheral Idea to Market? More

Getting a USB Peripheral Idea to Market?

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  • Patent Submission... (Score:5, Informative)

    by MadWicKdWire ( 734140 ) * on Saturday October 30, 2004 @02:34PM (#10673775) Homepage
    Submit for a patent... then go to a business. Otherwise, they could steal it from you when you show them the idea.

    • Re:Patent Submission... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Because everyone who has a good idea also has $20,000 or more for a patent and a lawyer.

    • Re:Patent Submission... (Score:5, Informative)

      by uradu ( 10768 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @03:13PM (#10674038)
      Actually, put your idea to paper and have it notarized. That way you formally create prior art, and if you ever figure out a way to commercialize the idea, you won't be restricted by potential later patents.

      • Actually, put your idea to paper and have it notarized. That way you formally create prior art, and if you ever figure out a way to commercialize the idea, you won't be restricted by potential later patents.

        I'm sure that works in fantasyland but the real world is a bit more complicated.

        Assuming that BigCorp Inc. steals your idea and it is a runaway success, do you have the money, time and persistence to follow through to winning a legal case?

        Probably not.

        • Re:Patent Submission... (Score:4, Informative)

          by uradu ( 10768 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @09:44PM (#10676167)
          And what do you think you would have to do if someone willfully ignored your patent? Pretty much the same legal song and dance. Or do you think the USPTO will take up your defense just because they issued you a patent? Patents are only worthwhile if you have the financial basis to defend them.
      • Prior art, from the standpoint of a patent, only counts if it is published. Writing something up, and keeping it in your safe deposit box will not serve as prior art, even if you fully describe the idea.

        Now, if you are to write your idea up in a letter to some company, and have a notorized copy of the letter, you might then be able to use that letter to prove that you discussed the idea with that company in the event that the company shafts you.

        However, let us go to the more fundemental question - are you
        • > Prior art, from the standpoint of a patent, only counts
          > if it is published. Writing something up, and keeping
          > it in your safe deposit box will not serve as prior art,
          > even if you fully describe the idea.

          Published?! A notarized document is a legal record, that's the whole point of notarization. Of course, there are some common guidelines on the structure of a document that you may expect might be challenged later on, such as making it harder to me modified after being notarized (e.g. not le

      • Re:Patent Submission... (Score:4, Informative)

        by KingPrad ( 518495 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @12:09AM (#10676787)
        Not a notary - 2 signed witnesses who have read and understood all your writings and diagrams. Your witnesses need to be able to testify on the device itself and its features and construction, not just that you wrote some thing down on such and such date, which is what a notary is doing.

        I recommend the book "Patent it Yourself". It's pretty cheap on Amazon.
        • Almost...a notary is NOT testifying that you wrote something down on such and such a date.

          A notary is ONLY testifying that you are who you say you are when you sign the document. Where the document came from, when you wrote it, etc. are not things a notary handles.

          http://www.sdsos.gov/notaries/sevenconc.htm

          - A notarization does not prove truthfulness of the contents of a document, nor validate a document and render it legal.

          - A notarization provides verification of a document signer's willingness to sig

    • Re:Patent Submission... (Score:5, Informative)

      by beegle ( 9689 ) * on Saturday October 30, 2004 @03:31PM (#10674166) Homepage
      The parent post has the right idea: get a patent.

      A bit of advise, though: there are people through this article claiming that patents cost $20k or more in legal fees.

      Bullshit!

      Sure, you can spend that if you want to. Just visit a patent lawyer with a nothing more than a vague idea about something that you'd like to patent. At several hundred dollars an hour, the bill adds up quickly.

      The alternative is to go to the patent database, read a few patents to get a feel for the format, buy a few books, and write up your own patent. Then, search for prior art yourself and flag anything that's even remotely close. After you've done this work, visit a patent attorney with your patent and research notes and ask him to review it. If you've done your homework and have a reasonably well-written patent, the attorney won't have to do much more than read it. The total cost will probably end up at $2000-$3000 after filing fees.

      A bit of warning: good technical artists are -expensive-, so think about ways to minimize the number of diagrams.

      My father has several patents, and this is the method that he used.

    • You don't need to apply for a full patent. Put in a "pending patent application" which will protect you for a year. It costs about $75 if you are a small independent inventor. Go to the USPTO [uspto.gov] to get the details; it's not complicated but it is a little tedious. No one really looks at what you submit but it does mean the USPTO has your idea in their hand so you can prove your case in the event someone tries to rip you off.

      Having your idea written and notarized won't do you any good.

    • could steal it from you when you show them the idea.

      This whole, "oh no they'll steal my idea" paranoia has got to stop. Look, while occasionally ideas are "stolen," it's more likely that a company you think stole your idea was already working on it. Ideas are worth about a penny in 1 ton lots, i.e., not much. Think about it, you have idea X about business area Y. You go to company Z which is a major player in Y to sell your idea. They say no and release a similar product 3 months later. You scream "omig

    • Unfortunately, after a bit of research, I don't believe the idea would be patentable (except possibly for a design patent after the fact on specific implementations).

      A little more background:

      - I have tried an informal collaboration w/ an electrical engineer once, but the person never responded when I asked for what address to send some materials to be used in development to.

      - I have written to one company, but no response yet --- I appreciate the pointers for other companies to try, and will keep the

  • First make sure... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by IronMagnus ( 777535 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @02:34PM (#10673776)
    The idea hasn't already been patented and some company is just waiting for someone else to start producing it so they can sue them.
    • "The idea hasn't already been patented and some company is just waiting for someone else to start producing it so they can sue them."

      How would you find that out, exactly?

      Even if a patent was granted, it's not something that you can easily find on google. More likely, it's still "in the process" (10 years sometimes?) which means it's impossible to check for.

      The idea of patents is not, as many people believe, to document useful things so that others can produce them after a few years of artificial monopoly

  • manufacturers (Score:4, Interesting)

    by selfsealingstembolt ( 590231 ) <<ten.gintalbas> <ta> <sukram>> on Saturday October 30, 2004 @02:35PM (#10673783) Homepage
    Go and find some USB products that are similarly 'innovative' and contact their manufacturer.

    See here [thinkgeek.com] for some examples. Companies already producing an USB aquarium or coffee warmer may be a good start.

  • Have you considered FireWire 800? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anton Anatopopov ( 529711 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @02:39PM (#10673810)
    USB is so 2002.
    • USB is so 2002.

      Nah, USB is so 1998. Ahh, the days when you could count the number of popular USB devices on one hand... Umax 1220U scanner, Epson 740 inkjet printer, Iomega Zip250...

      It seemed like every USB "early adopter" had the exact same suite of USB peripherals back in late 1998 / early 1999.

  • Projected numbers (Score:4, Insightful)

    by prostoalex ( 308614 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @02:41PM (#10673823) Homepage Journal
    How much would the final device sell for? If your quantities are in thousands of units and require additional R&D, you can produce the device in the United States, provided you supply the factories with the board design, casing, cabling and all the other components. But in that case consumers might be expected to pay $100-200 per device, which doesn't work if the device is simplistic.

    You can outsource manufacturing to China and get the same device for pennies on the dollar, but Chinese won't talk to you unless you place an order for a million. Depending on the complexity of the device itself, the price might be around $1-5, so you're looking at initial order of $1 mln to $5 mln, which few companies have budgeted for the outside ideas. Unless it's pretty obvious that they can sell it in the United States for $20 a pop and get a million of them sold within reasonable amount of time.

    If all you want is royalties on something you invented, consider filing a patent application with USPTO, final cost - $15K-$30K, depending on the patent lawyer [google.com]. That would be a fairly quick way to establish yourself as the inventor of this paricular technology and would invite all the companies to participate in production and paying you a small royalty fee.

    Yet another way to market it is to approach a startup in Silicon Valley. There're always some guys on the lookout for a new company, and they're willing to start a new company, but are looking for technical smarts to build the company on. Contact those guys, and you get access to the venture capital, management and marketing skills, plus a title of co-founder, if the device itself is expected to sell well, so it's worth creating a company behind this product idea.

    • Re:Projected numbers (Score:2, Informative)

      by ddewey ( 774337 )

      You can outsource manufacturing to China and get the same device for pennies on the dollar, but Chinese won't talk to you unless you place an order for a million.

      Not necessarily true. My company, ChinaForge.com [chinaforge.com] helps businesses manufacture China. Our customers will often only order small quantities at first. The Chinese factories that we use are willing to take small orders (often less than 5000 units) if it looks like the product could be successful eventually. Prices are still fairly low in the hope t

      • Our customers will often only order small quantities at first.

        Do you guys require any kind of commitments for the large orders when I place the small one? Thanks for the URL, it looks like you're selling the service that my current employer is interested in.
        • We do not require a commitment for large orders, but we require the customer to pay the costs of producing necessary tooling such as molds, dies, etc. The cost of the tooling is usually refunded the customer after orders total 300 thousand units or more. Also, manufacturing such tooling is usually much cheaper in China due to low labor costs.
      • My company, ChinaForge.com helps businesses manufacture China.

        I'll take two Chinas, please.
        • "My company, ChinaForge.com helps businesses manufacture China."

          "I'll take two Chinas, please."

          Fool! Get your puns correct! Clearly, this [alibaba.com] is what his company helps other businesses manufacture. </joke>
      • I previously worked for a company who branched off into an export-labor-to-China-for-cheap business. From what I remember they take 5000 unit orders as well. In the spirit of capitalistic competition here is the link to Golden Beam Technology Industrial, LLC [goldenbeamtech.com].

        So, if someone really wants low prices they should get quotes from both of these companies and see how low they'll go.
    • I always wished there were a way to shop an idea around before getting a patent just to simply find out if it's worth spending that much on a patent.

      I'm an arm-chair inventor myself and I have around 50 ideas I think are probably 'patentable' (would have to do research on prior art, existing patents, etc) but I'm not even willing to spend 1k on a patent for any of them because I have no idea if they're commercially viable or not.

      And if you read articles, or advice for individual innventors all you read ar
      • That's a tough one. I work for reasonable large corp, so there's always patent lawyer available when you need him, but I can imagine for an inventor working on his own the fees can be quite demanding.

        I don't see the way around filing fee, since USPTO just charges that for each filing, and they won't do free consultations or anything. Perhaps a solution for you would be to get into a deal with those "intellectual property warehouses" that appeared in the Valley a few years ago with the dot-com boom. I think
      • Go to www.halfbakery.com and post your ideas. If it's a bad idea the people there will tell you really soon. If it's good it will get positive votes and maybe somebody will notice and go implement it. But at least you will know that was *your* idea somebody else got rich off of :-)
  • Step 1 - Give them away for free at Radio Shack.
    Step 2 - ????
    Step 3 - Profit.

    Actually create a company and start making them. You can do this for about $200 and a bunch of your time. Even if it's a mockup. A working model thrumps any threat of theft of IP. Would be competors are lazy, they won't try if there is one actually on the table and they can more easily invest in it. Then rush to get your patent. Even if your company is a cardboard cutout, a working unit will get you investors.
    • How can I do this for $200 dollars? Can you point me to resources? How can I start a 'cardboard cutout' company?
    • IANAL but I have applied (at work) for a pattent. The lawyer kept telling me that there is a "one year bar." That is, if you share it, you have one year to patent it. That said, you should make darn sure that you have great evidence that you came up with it before you shared it (proving that would probably require a lawyer--who would know what would stand up in court).

  • I'd be able to give you better advice (Score:4, Funny)

    by Mordant ( 138460 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @03:03PM (#10673961)
    if you'd tell me the details of your idea, first.

    Just between us, of course. ;>

  • Sorry (Score:3, Funny)

    by tzanger ( 1575 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @03:06PM (#10673977) Homepage

    But the iBrator [carcino.gen.nz] has already been developed.

  • Simple? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by digime ( 681824 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @03:13PM (#10674042)

    If you have no hardware or driver experience how do you know it's amazingly simple? What looks simple to a layman could actually be amazingly complex. The reason I point this out is because - as the sole programmer for one of my company's most critical systems - I'm constantly being bombarded with "amazingly simple" enhancement ideas from non-programmers. They'll even go so far as to write programming time into their proposals as "1 day", never haven spoken to me and having absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I'm sure this happens to the readership here as often as it happens to me. I'm just pointing out that it sounds highly probable that you are one of these people.

    My advice is to pick up a few books and learn at least a little about the implementation of your idea. Who knows, you might even learn enough to develop a prototype on your own. Armed with even a very crude example, you'd have much more luck selling it. "I'll sit back in my house, spend no money, spout off ideas, and other people will throw cash at me." is a great dream, hell I've had it myself, but don't count on that happening. You are most likely going to need to do a lot of work, spend some money, and talk to a lot of people before you see a cent.

  • A product idea in itself... (Score:5, Informative)

    by HotNeedleOfInquiry ( 598897 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @03:33PM (#10674175)
    Is worth almost nothing. Before you go into flame mode, I've spent the last 10 years building my own business from the garage up without VC money so I kinda know what I'm talking about. I have good ideas all the time. Getting the good ideas is the fun part. Turning them into products, regardless of how 'simple', is the hard work.

    Here's a tip, go over to comp.arch.embedded newsgroup and post your request over there. There's a bunch of talented people there and someone might be interested.

    Believe it or not, you would have had a better chance a couple of years ago. Back then, there were lots of hardware engineers out of work and looking to partner with others. Now most everyone is back to work.
  • Ideas themselves are not as valuable if you are not willing to take any risk with them. The first step you could take would be to get it patented as somebody already suggested.
    Another step might be to invest the money to see it designed and manufactured. Each step you risk more time and money, the value of your idea grows because its profitability is closer to reality and there are less unknowns.

    I think that the belief that an idea by itself is has monetary value without risk is somewhat of a myth. Chan
    • Chester Carlson, the inventor of Xerox copying machines spend 8 years trying to find a company that would help him develop and productize his copying process. Despite it being something we now all take for granted, most of the companies saw no value in his invention.

  • Companies (Score:3, Informative)

    by ratboy666 ( 104074 ) <fred_weigel@[ ]mail.com ['hot' in gap]> on Saturday October 30, 2004 @04:34PM (#10674526) Journal
    There are companies that can help you...

    Try nytric.com (just an example)

    They will do hardware design, FPGA, programming, plastics, housing, &etc (marketing, offshoring). For a percentage, of course.

    Make sure you get NDA & legal protections with them.

    Ratboy.

  • patent costs exaggerated (Score:3, Informative)

    by nusratt ( 751548 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @04:48PM (#10674607) Journal
    I've been down this road.
    In the USA, for about $500-$2000 (depending on your location and willingness to do your own busy-work), you can get a patent atty to help you with an expedited (less paper-work) "provisional patent", which protects you for a year or two while you get your act together.

    Search the web for patent attys in your area -- as far away as possible from an expensive big-city downtown location.
    I'm sure that there are online directories (by specialty) of orgs such as the state bar assoc, assoc of IP lawyers, etc.
    Some will even have emails, which you can shotgun to ask their minimum charge (for provisional) and initial consult.
    That's how I found mine, in the fall of 2001.

    btw, you might even get it done cheaper with a "patent agent".

  • Several major steps (Score:3)

    by Solder Fumes ( 797270 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @05:47PM (#10674920)
    I've done this from the developer end. I've made prototypes of a few devices for independent inventors, including some simple USB devices. The difference between a typical private inventor's cost estimate, and the realistic cost of development, is about a factor of ten. Same for the time estimates. Real companies are usually closer to realistic figures, since they've done all this before.

    And that's just for prototyping. It takes a lot of money, time, advertising, and infrastructure just to bring one device to market. That's why you see very few companies out there who only have one product...you just can't sell enough of one thing to recover your costs. So I would definitely agree that taking the self-starter approach is not realistic. You will have to find a company that will adopt your project, or else come up with an entire product line and develop a business plan for a company worthy of investment.

    I don't know of an actual company that is based solely on bringing inventors' ideas to market, but I think it would be pretty neat.

  • You Don't Deserve Royalties... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nathanh ( 1214 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @07:21PM (#10675431) Homepage

    ... if all you've got is an idea.

    There was a recent series on Australia's national television about inventors. If I learnt anything from the series it's that ideas are a dime a dozen but turning ideas into a marketable product is a lot of work.

    Put some effort into your idea. Write down a design. Make it work. Build a prototype. Get a patent on the working invention. The point of a patent is to reward the person who turns the idea into reality. If you don't know how to build it then LEARN HOW. If you don't want to put in the effort then you don't deserve to profit from the idea. Simple as that.

    In any event, I would bet dollars to donuts that your idea is not unique. If you can think of it somebody else can think of it too, and they probably already have. But you will probably find, like many of the inventors on the afore-mentioned television series, that the original idea would never have worked. Through the process of building the invention they refined the idea until it does work. That's the valuable part of the invention. That's what makes them special people. That's what you should be doing, rather than thinking about royalty payments.

    PS: I have no encouragement or sympathy for any person who expects to "hand off" their idea to a company and wait for the royalty cheques. I think it's disgusting that you are madly keen to start receiving royalty cheques yet so disinterested in being involved in the creation of the invention.

    • Great call mate - If I had mod points I'd give you some. Lets face it - WE ALL have been through the same fantasy as the original post. Its a fantasy and thats all it is. A good example is a friend of mine who's Dad had a really good idea for a business and 3 contacts. My mate was earning $120,000 a year as an site engineer (30 y.o). But my mate quit his job and started programming and also integrating RFID technology. Through his dad he got 1 contract. Its taken 2 years of hard work and lots of trav
  • Not to rain on your parade, but...

    Just how simple is your device? Will you be able to use existing chipsets or microcontrollers? Even a very simple ASIC can quickly cost you $175,000 in engineering and die costs. Low-gate FPGAs may be an option, but the larger models will drain too much current to run off USB power alone, especially if connected to a bus-powered hub.

    Even the plastic enclosure for the device will cost you significant money. Expect to pay for CAD work, molds, and factory setup.

    Then there'
    • For production, those costs are prohibitive. But for development of a few prototypes so he can shop the product around to manufacturers, there are ways around ASICs and injection molds, etc.

      Use a microcontroller with onboard USB, make your enclosures (assuming an off the shelf one won't do) out of castable acrylic or even wood.

      That said, I doubt the OP will even get that far...

  • iDildo? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Gothmolly ( 148874 ) on Saturday October 30, 2004 @10:25PM (#10676367)
    I'd call that an 'embarassingly' simple USB device.
  • 1. Contact manufacturer of innovative product 2. Contact silk screening company 3. Bulk order 1000's of innovative product 4. Silk screen your logo on it 5. Reap the profits At least thats how most companies work.
  • " have an idea for an almost embarrassingly simple USB device, which I believe would be fairly popular --- no hardware or device driver development skills though. "
    1. Get some books or use the Internet and get those skills.
    2.Find some one with those skills and partner with them.
    An idea is worth next to nothing. Until you convert it in to reality. Basically you want to get money for this "brilliant idea" you had while putting no real work, taking no risk, and making no investment. Good job if you can get it.

  • provisional patent (Score:4, Informative)

    by grando ( 200472 ) on Sunday October 31, 2004 @08:21PM (#10681804)
    Three things.

    First, if you feel this is a good idea, then write it up and file a provisional patent. It only costs $80 to file a provisional and it will provide you with one year of protection before you file an actual patent. You don't have to have any legal knowledge to file a provisional. The only thing to realize is that your full patent filing will have to match up with the concepts written in your provisional in order to be valid. The only person who will ever look at the provisional is the patent examiner. Diagrams go a long way here, because they can be interpreted more liberally than words.

    Second, if you have any affiliation with a University, you may want to talk to the tech-transfer office. At my university, students, faculty, and staff can bring ideas to the tech-transfer office and they will help you with a provisional (for a percentage of future royalties, of course.) If you can find a company to license the idea to after the provisional is filed, they might even help you file a full patent.

    Third, the average cost of litigation for patent infringement (assuming you get a patent) is around $750,000. This is a lot of loot to shell out for infringement, and they usually get settled out of court by arranging for licensing.

    At the end of the day, you want to make sure that you have this thing wrapped up before you go around telling companies about it. Even if you want to go around and make companies sign NDA's, you will still need a lawyer to write those up for you (if you expect the NDA to hold up), which could cost quite a bit as well.

    -grando
  • I'd be happy to design a working prototype for you. My consulting fee starts at $5K. Email if interested :)

    You might be surprised how much time and effort goes into getting a product idea off the ground. Like other posters here have said, having the idea is the easy part. Even a "simple" idea has issues.

    • Embedded Product Development (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      WIN Enterprises provides design, manufacturing, and fulfillment services (even box/package design and shipment to your end customers, if you'd like) for embedded designs. *plug* www.win-ent.com [win-ent.com] We've done many of Intel's reference designs, and we're now doing similar things for AMD. We have a Taiwanese sister company that can handle your manufacturing to keep it economical. We can build both customized motherboards and chassis to fit your application. Even at 500 - 1000 per year quantities, we can usu

  • Look to someone who has done this before... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by anomaly ( 15035 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [3repooc.mot]> on Monday November 01, 2004 @11:27AM (#10685830)
    Check out the book
    http://www.mousedriver.com/book/excerpts.htm

    Written by a couple of MBA's with a 'great product idea' who documented their experiences getting their new mouse to market.

    Hope this helps!

    Regards,
    Anomaly
  • Let's say you don't have an idea of a whole new product but rather a new process or way of doing things. Kind of like drinking some milk and realizing, "This would totally rock with some chocolate syrup!" Or if that's too much like an actual product, "A process by making a cassette tape translucent, thereby enabling the user to have a more acurate assessment of how much tape is left on the cassette." Or how about the genius that got tape counters to count in human readable time instead of 0000-9999? Wha

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