Mac OS X Panther On A 25MHz Centris 650 499
Currawong writes "danamania, well known for making the most of 68k Macs, has done the ultimate, and installed Mac OS X Panther on an old Centris with 68MB RAM, a 25MHz 68040 and 4GB drive - an early 90's machine with about the same power as a NeXT cube. To achieve this, she's had to run it under PearPC on Debian, resulting in a severe performance hit, as generic emulation runs "about 500 times slower" according to the developers. On this approximately 0.05MHz G3 speed emulator, the boot screen has taken 1.5 hours to appear, and the ETA for full boot is almost exactly 1 week! Regular updates are being posted as each milestone in the boot process is reached."
LOL (Score:5, Funny)
Re:LOL (Score:5, Funny)
Re:LOL (Score:5, Funny)
Re:LOL (Score:3, Funny)
I bet a screen capture movie would have to be done by Marty Stoufer from Wild Kingdom, like when they do a time-lapse film of a plant growing, or ants devouring roadkill.
Think about this (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, really? Than you should think about this [perl.com]:
Wow... (Score:3, Informative)
Still as good an excuse as ever. :)
Re: (Score:2)
And in other news, I sat and watched plaster dry (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And in other news, I sat and watched plaster dr (Score:2)
Yay! (Score:5, Funny)
Gee, sounds faster than my wife's ibook G3/900 with 128M of RAM! Maybe I should upgrade to this!
Re:Yay! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yay! (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple won't help -- it's explicitly excluded in their warranty. Paying for the repair would cost more than I paid for the laptop. So I'm stuck with pretty much a useless laptop, unless I go back to OS 9.
My only hope is that the logic board problem in this series will rear its head, and that they'll replace it in spite of this issue. Otherwise, I'll just have to eBay it and eat the difference.
I'm pretty bummed about the whole thing. I decided to buy my first Mac and see what the hype is sbout, and this is what happens.
Re:Yay! (Score:5, Funny)
Boot Time One Week!? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Boot Time One Week!? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Boot Time One Week!? (Score:2)
Re:Boot Time One Week!? (Score:2)
A friend of mine had a 760ED. It's a Pentium 75. Not a bad P75, but still a P75.
Cheating? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Cheating? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cheating? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cheating? (Score:3, Informative)
They were only able to do this because PowerPC was so much faster than the old m68k. Had the speeds been comparable,
Re:Cheating? (Score:4, Insightful)
Using an emulator does count as cheating.
If I run Bochs to boot Win2k3 on an old 386, will I get a Slashdot FP?
Shit, I suppose I can look forward to seeing that tomorrow now, can't I?
I appreciate emulation, I really do. But aside from the author of the emulator, no one else gets to claim geek cred from using one. Had this person really gotten OS X to run on a 68040, I'd consider it somewhat cool. Running it on an emulator, though? Here, hold on, I'll come back and describe my experience getting SMB3 to run under SNES9x on a 2GHz Win2k box... Woo-woo, rolling in the coolness now, baby!
Re:Cheating? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cheating? (Score:5, Interesting)
Bottom line is, I would guess win2k would also have these checks to make sure it won't install on a slow machine.
Not totally. (Score:4, Interesting)
That's why most new packages you see are i486; they use instructions Intel added to the ISA when they released the 486.
Re:Not totally. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cheating? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cheating? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cheating? (Score:2)
It would be impossible to run MacOS X on a 68040 on it *without* some form of emulation.
Re:Cheating? (Score:2)
No, not tomorrow. Gotta give windows a couple of months to boot on that..
Errr... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Errr... (Score:5, Funny)
Considering it won't boot for another week, this truly must be a story from the Mysterious Future!
And the ETA for the TFA? (Score:2)
Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wow (Score:2)
wow (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wow (Score:5, Funny)
I started to, but it'll take me 52.6 years to finish imagining it.
Ultimate? (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Getting a web server to run on an Atari 800 is kind of cool. Modding a Roomba to deliver your Dr Pepper is nifty. Getting OSX to run on the slowest piece of hardware you can get Linux to run on is tired and boring.
Don't make me start reading CNN for my news.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
In many ways getting OSX to run on an 040 based Macintosh is like playing the Matrix on a Zoetrope... Utterly pointless but damned nifty. Sure you had to create a connected series of bluetooth LCD monitors with alternating frames playing back from a 1GB CF drive, but don't it beat all that it works. And that the old macintosh is running the new mac software with a one-week boot time is even cooler and more interesting.
If you want news, go to the BBC. If you want fanatical fandom with no grounding in reality... go to Fox. If you want nifty stuff like discussing the colors of glowsticks in 30 year old movies, you're in the right spot.
Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
And on the other end of the mac spectrum... (Score:5, Informative)
Check out the announcment [vt.edu].
I wonder how many Centrises that equates to...
Re:And on the other end of the mac spectrum... (Score:2)
A useless and valuable exercise (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely not. But that it not the point. In The Real World imagination and creativity are the driving force. How do you foster that? By challenging yourself and inspiring others. There does not have to be any realistic application as much as there needs to be a thought process behind it that can be capitalized on in the future. Experiments such as this drive the imagination and the mind into new directions and those new paths we explore can lead to really, really utterly brilliant things that can have a profound effect on our lives.
In school, a teacher once told me "Answers don't really matter at all. The process you use to reach your conclusions is the most important thing in the world." It blew my little mind open to the true nature of creativity and for the first time I valued it in a way that was truly profound.
Journal (Score:5, Funny)
And.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Is the excitement here that Debian ran just fine on something so old, the great work from the developers of PearPC or what it takes to get an OS to take a week to boot?
Watch (Score:5, Funny)
I know I added her to my friend list.
Ok off-topic but I thought it was funny.
Re:Watch (Score:2, Funny)
BTW (Score:2)
Re:Watch (Score:2, Funny)
just turned 19 too!!
Re:Watch (Score:5, Funny)
As opposed to your usual crusty tube sock
Re:Watch (Score:3, Insightful)
Try it backwards - old OS on new machine (Score:2, Interesting)
Computers are getting faster and faster, and yet boot time remains too long. Imagine doing the opposite - running early OSs on modern hardware. Startup should be fast, software
Re:Try it backwards - old OS on new machine (Score:3, Informative)
Installing the Hard Drive was worst part (Score:2, Informative)
And they kept that damn chasis around until the 7100's...
Truly, an amazing feat to deal with that obnoxious piece of design.
Oh, and the sharpened metal edges inside the case are murder on the knuckles.
Wow... (Score:2)
So in a week from now... (Score:4, Funny)
So the G3 Emulates at 50Khz with PearPC. Bet she wishes she could have used Cherry OS [cherryos.com]!
Re:So in a week from now... (Score:2)
Useless and Wonderful... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Useless and Wonderful... (Score:5, Insightful)
kudos to danamania for wondering if this would work. it is useless, but it still geeky cool.
Re:Useless and Wonderful... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow, way to miss the forest...
I think it booted already... (Score:3, Funny)
It would be funny if they install SETI@Home, and that weak machine finds ET's signal...
oh how the AMD kiddies will cry.
its not running ON the centris (Score:2)
Its just a emulator.. it doesn't change the fact you are NOT I repeat NOT running OSX on pre G3 hardware.. You are pretending you are..
Now, that said, *great* credit goes to the pearPC guys for their work.. But please.. get the damned stories right...
Re:its not running ON the centris (Score:3, Funny)
What kind of hardware is it? It's a Centris. Is there any other hardware involved? No.
What is the software that's running? Oh my gosh, it's OS X. Is it a mockup of OS X? No. Is it a program that pretends to be OS X? No. It's an actual copy of OS X, and it's running.
So OS X is running. What is it running on? Is it running on some mythical G5 processor in the ether that magically instantiates itself when it senses OS X code on other hardware? Why, no, it's running on the Cent
I've done similarly stupid things... (Score:5, Funny)
On monday morning, I got an excited phone call from my friend, the page had just popped out of the printer! That means the print job ran on the laser printer's processor for about 2.5 days.
Linux on an Abacus... (Score:5, Funny)
When my port of Linux on an Abacus is complete, I shall hold the true crown of new stuff on old shit geekiness! (Though, I wonder if people are going to say I cheated because I had to overclock it a little, and I added a few more beads to increase bandwidth.)
This is why I love hackers . . . . . (Score:2)
For the next trick I'd like to see this thing running windows, using qemu, inside panter.
What? You mean it would take a year to load? Damn.
boot time of 1 week?! (Score:3, Funny)
An Excellent Demonstration of Church-Turing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Boiled down, it basically states that any computer can emulate any other.
GJC
Re:An Excellent Demonstration of Church-Turing... (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe by the time I'm ready to retire it will have finally rendered a single frame of the OS X logo.
I'm not impressed (Score:5, Interesting)
0.05Mhz? That's just plain speedy. I'd like to see them do what I did: Run it on a 0Mhz processor: [vefsyn.is]
I don't want to start a holy war here, (Score:5, Funny)
In addition, during this file transfer, Safari will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Textedit is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various OS X machines, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a OS X machine that has run faster than its Contiki counterpart, despite the thousands of lines of code stolen from Windows Longhorn. My Tandy 102 with 32k of ram and MS BASIC runs faster than this 25 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that OS X is a superior OS.
OS X addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use OS X over other faster, cheaper, more stable OSes.
Re:Very simple question... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:3, Insightful)
because you can
That is a bullshit answer. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:That is a bullshit answer. (Score:5, Funny)
Would you go around killing people if you couldn't?
Re:That is a bullshit answer. (Score:3, Funny)
Well, at least you're not killing puppies so you can have an orgasm. There's already enough game consoles on the market as it is.
Re:Very simple question... (Score:5, Funny)
old games (Score:3, Insightful)
What's wrong with Marathon and Spectre? That's why I'm keeping around a couple of my beige Macs - a Q840AV and G3/300 to be exact. There a dozens of fan-made Marathon scenarios I have yet to play. In terms of storyline and gameplay I still think the Marathon series was the best FPS I've ever seen.
Aleph One (Score:4, Informative)
cheers. :)
Re:old games (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:5, Informative)
For those who haven't bothered to mouse-over that foot icon attached to the story, it's indicates that this story has been attached to a category known as "It's Funny. Laugh". That's the reason why this story made Slashdot.
Why this was done in the first place? Dunno...
Simple answer ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:2)
h@XorZ stolded my megahurtz!
SiO2
Re:Very simple question... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:2, Interesting)
"I did it for the worst possible reason, because I could."
This is all paraphrased, but it helps to answer the question of "why?". It also gets to the heart of this story -- it was done for the worst possible reason!
Re:Very simple question... (Score:2)
Re:Very simple question... (Score:2)
Here's a counter-question: why not?
Re:Very simple question... (Score:4, Funny)
IT SEEMS (Score:3, Funny)
Re:IT SEEMS (Score:5, Insightful)
A more accurate comparison would be to run XP on a 486/25 with 64 MB of ram. Of course, XP will probably refuse to run on a 486 at all, so you'll need a 686 emulator running on the 486, and you'll need at least 128 MB of ram (so the emulator will have to use virtual memory to emulate the extra 64 MB + that used in overhead.) I have no reason to expect that if the emulator is good that this won't work.
It'll probably run faster than MacOS X on the Centris too. After all, OS X needs a PPC, which is totally different than a 680x0, so it needs to be emulated at the lowest level. But a 686 isn't very different from a 486, so an emulator could take advantage of this.
That this works at all is not really a testament to the robustness of OS X, but instead a testament to the robustness of the PearPC emulator. As far as OS X is concerned, it's running on a PPC box. Just a very slow one ...
Re:IT SEEMS (Score:5, Funny)
Really, the reason it was posted to /. is because they think it'll take a week to boot. If it booted in an hour, we wouldn't be nearly as amused :)
Hell, my Apollo 3000 with 8 MB of ram took about 30 minutes from power on until it was booted up enough for me to start an xterm. All thanks to the memory-grubbing power of HP VUE on top of DomainOS -- no emulation there!
Re:Very simple question... (Score:3, Funny)
I think we have to see this as a pointless indulgence, we know it should work, but there is no real point.
I just hope he realises that he's denying some fish a proper home.
Don't mince words... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Why the stories? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why the stories? (Score:2)
Blake