Does Your LCD Play Catch-Up To Your Mouse? 691
Dishes of Ryan writes "I fell in love with the idea of an LCD monitor, so I ended up buying a nice, shiny Dell 2001FP. However, nowhere, and I mean *nowhere* did I read about LCDs having an input lag on them. For instance, if I scoot the mouse across the screen, there is a noticeable delay between when I move the mouse and when the cursor moves. To prove it to people, made a video showing exactly what I mean. You can almost forget being king of the hill on twitch FPS games like Unreal Tournament. Are there any other Slashdotters out there that are as annoyed as I am? What did you do?"
Need a different monitor (Score:5, Insightful)
Conclusion? Dell buys parts from the lowest bidder. Ergo, they are the lowest quality. Therefore, you need a better monitor.
Sorry.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Informative)
No lag here, at all. And this stuff ain't exactly cutting-edge.
Did it occur to you that maybe you have a hardware problem with *your* system?
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Informative)
Once you've set your resolution and refresh rate, be sure to use the auto-adjust button if your monitor has it. When I first got mine, I thought the picture looked like crap. Then I found the auto-adjust. With a push of a button, I suddenly saw the crispest text I'd ever seen in my life. Quite an improvement over CRT displays.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Informative)
If I autoadjust while showing normal windows, the bitmap will usually still have fuzzy areas when I pull it up. If I autoadjust while the bitmap is being displayed, the monitor is able to lock onto it perfectly. The text looks noticeably better with a perfect lock, especially when using sub-pixel sampling on the fonts, which needs pixel-perfect alignment to work properly.
I have a shortcut to this image on my systems because I have a KVM switch, so I need to autoadjust a lot. No two systems have the exact same video timings.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, companies now make excellent DVI/USB KVM switches, so there is no execuse to use a VGA connection on a LCD panel anymore.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Interesting)
sub-pixel sampling on fonts does not work very good at all unless you use a DVI connector for your LCD.
Funny, the sub-pixel antialiasing looks virtually identical on my laptop, my pair of aging 15 inch LCD panels, and every other LCD I've tried. All except for the laptop(s) are analog.
I changed from a VGA to a DVI connector on my LCD panel at work and the difference is astounding.
If you are seeing that much of a difference you might want to learn how to adjust you LCD. So far, every single time
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Interesting)
THANK YOU! Excellent post my friend. I just created a small bmp in paint with different sized black squares on a white background, then tiled it for my background -> Autoadjusted my LCD.
It looks fucking fantastic, text is smooth and clear, unbelievable. Thanks a million man, most useful post I've read on slashdot. Note, and this isn't even at my LCD's native resolution (1280x1024, whereas I am running 1280x960). Amazing, didn't think this was possible.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Informative)
Lots of displays are 1280x1024...it's SXGA. I have a Dell LCD in that size at the office, and the pixels are square.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Informative)
And the mode caught on because it's the largest mode using standard pixel numbers that fits into a 4MB framebuffer at a depth of 24 bits. It's been a standard for a lot of Unix workstations (which used fixed frequency 5:4 CRT monitors for this).
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:post the image? (Score:5, Informative)
You can probably do the same thing with Gimp, but it's not immediately obvious to me how to do it.
how to do it in GIMP (Score:5, Informative)
The following sequence seems to do the trick w/ GIMP 1.2.x:
That should get you a checkerboard pattern on a 1-pixel increment. I haven't seen what this does for an LCD monitor's ability to fine tune an analog signal (since I don't own such a display), but I think it's the pattern you're using. It's the same fill pattern the old monochrome Macs used for their desktops. LOTS of edges to sync on, on every line! :-)
--JoeRe:post the image? (Score:3, Informative)
Um, no. (Score:5, Informative)
My guess is that there is something wrong with the video drivers, or the mouse drivers, or some other part of his computer that's causing these problems.
I can't see the vid because the file is apperantly slashdotted.
Re:Um, no. (Score:5, Insightful)
If I remember the specs I saw when I was shopping for an LCD monitor about 18 months ago, LCD update rates are characterized in tens of milliseconds. The ones I was considering were in the 20 to 28 ms range. That's between one and two screen refreshes at 60 Hz. That's fast enough not to be noticeable.
If the monitor were causing the mouse to have a noticable lag, then everything else would appear to lag too. The guy needs to do some other tests - if he brings up a window and types, do the characters appear to be delayed too?
I'm with you - I think it's his mouse driver or some sort of strange interaction between the mouse driver and something he installed with the new drivers.
Re:Um, no. (Score:5, Funny)
"The guy needs to do some other tests - if he brings up a window and types, do the characters appear to be delayed too?"
Reminds me of a guy who bought his dot-matrix printer in for repair twice because it would not print the letter K. No amount of testing was enough to convince him that this was simply not possible. It turned out his keyboard had a faulty K key, and the K was not appearing on his screen either.
No K (Score:5, Funny)
It turned out his keyboard had a faulty K key, and the K was not appearing on his screen either.
And thus the GNOME project was born...
My god, man - do know what you're suggesting? (Score:5, Funny)
Slashdot as we know it would cease to exist!
Slashdot - where else you can be utterly wrong and get hailed as informative and insightful? Yeah, yeah - I meant besides FOX news.
Cursor "Submarining" (Score:5, Informative)
However, I have *zero* problems with this on any active-matrix screens I've ever worked with. ThinkPad 600E: lovely, crisp screen, no lag, cursor right there where you want it. PowerBook G3: the most awesome LCD I've ever seen this side of a Cinema Display. I even have a cheapy Taiwanese 15" LCD panel, Envision is the brand, and it's splendid. No lag, no lost cursors, nice and crisp.
That sort of thing shouldn't happen with a modern TFT active matrix screen. There is something very wrong with it.
Re:Cursor "Submarining" (Score:5, Informative)
To which my question is this: if the monitor is running several frames behind the video card, where are those frames being stored? We're talking about many megabytes of image data here. A single 1600x1200x32bpp frame is over 7 megabytes. The monitor has no buffer that could do such a thing.
To me this points to a cause in the computer rather than the monitor, perhaps in the drivers as others suggested.
Re:Cursor "Submarining" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cursor "Submarining" (Score:4, Informative)
No LCD emits light, all color LCDs have to be backlit.
Re:Um, no. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Insightful)
P.S. This monitor is awesome and I would recommend it to anybody. Great for gaming, watching movies, anything.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Funny)
It encourages you to learn C.
Re:No it doesn't (Score:3, Interesting)
The code you quoted is exactly identical to:
if (++c > 31)
{
c = !r--;
printf("\n");
}
else if (c r)
printf(" ");
else if (~c & r)
printf(" `");
else
printf(" #");
However the original code has undefined behaviour in other ways:
- invalid definition of main()
- failure to return an int from main()
- calling of variadic function printf() without a
Re:No it doesn't (Score:4, Informative)
Calling a function without prototype assumes the function was declared as:
int f();
(NOT int f(...) as another poster mentioned, this isn't even a valid declaration as there must be at least one non-variadic parameter)
which means that the number and type of the parameters are not yet known, and it is undefined behaviour if any call to f doesn't match[%] the actual definition of f(), wherever that might be.
Calling a variadic function without prototype is specifically undefined behaviour (for example, many compilers use a different calling convention for variadic functions to non-variadic functions, as another poster mentioned).
However if the convention is the same (eg. gcc on IA32) then it's likely to work correctly. (But still non-portable, obviously).
[%] The number of arguments must be the same, and they must have the same types after the default argument promotions: float->double, and (integer-type-smaller-than-int)->int, (other-types)->(stay-the-same)
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Informative)
It displays Pascals triangle.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Informative)
No it doesn't. It's not Pascal's triangle. It's Sierpinski's triangle. Pascal's triangle is such that the ith row gives the binomial coefficients for the expansion of (a+b)^i. Sierpinski's triangle is a made by drawing a triangle and recursively joining the midpoints of its sides. Pascal's triangle is chiefly an algebraic entity. Sierpinski's triangle is chiefly a geometric/fractal entity.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Informative)
condition ? expression1 : expression2;
and
if (condition)
expression1;
else
expression2:
you can decipher it to a reasonable degree:
#include <stdio.h>
main(void)
{
int c=0;
int r=0;
for(r=32;r;)
{
if(++c>31)
{
c=!r--;
printf("\n");
}
else
{
if(c<r)
printf(" ");
else
if(~c&r)
printf(" `");
else
printf("
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Informative)
Mirror (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Informative)
That Dell monitor is probably a rebadged Samsung or LG.
Re:Nah, need a different OS (Score:5, Interesting)
That's my guess. A lot of things happen during the vertical blanking interval or on some other similar periodic interrupt. In most OSes, this includes screen updates and mouse pointer redraws. This could be anything from a buggy driver to an IRQ conflict, or possibly even a bad trace on the motherboard (though the latter isn't anywhere near as likely).
If an OS reinstall doesn't solve the problem, there's probably something weird going on in the BIOS settings and/or the motherboard itself. Pull the BIOS battery for an hour. Try again. If that doesn't work... is your clock running slowly, too? If so, buy a new computer. If not... buy a new computer. EIther way. :-p
<rant>And speaking of IRQ conflicts... why hasn't any motherboard manufacturer broken with tradition and actually added enough distinctly addressable interrupt lines? I mean, the Mac has supported 64+ interrupts on its interrupt controller since 1995. Does it really take a decade of engineering to figure out how to cascade two interrupt controllers and add a driver to support it? Sheesh!</rant>
Sigh. Another victim of a 2004 computer crammed into a 1981 architecture....
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Informative)
if you have two, could it be that for some odd reason the video card has decided to needs a second interrupt and that one is being shared with the mouse? That would cause a nasty delay that might be noticed.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Informative)
> I'll bet the monitor in question is connected
> with a VGA plug
And Zorilla responded:
> That Dell monitor is probably a rebadged Samsung
> or LG.
Megane,
I have one of the Dell 2001FPs connected via a VGA cable (it's on a machine that doesn't get used for much gaming so it's connected to a slightly older video card) and I haven't notice a lag when moving the mouse (although I'm in front of my Hercules right now, so I can't actually test to see if the Dell shows the symptoms displayed in his video).
Zorilla,
You're partially correct. The Dell 2001FP contains a LG.Philips LM201U04 [lgphilips-lcd.com] panel. The rest of the monitor is Dell designed; although not Dell built.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:4, Insightful)
Why should you know??
You said earlier you're a video-game maker. Try takling to a professional photographer or other serious imagery user, and you can get a lengthy diatribe about how important proper monitor calibration is to visual fidelity, and how impossible it is to correctly tweak the color distribution of an LCD.
But it's nice to know you have the confidence to pretend you know what you're talking about.
That's what I call a "Twirlip". He's a heavy slashdot-poster who usually ends posts with insults that apply better to himself than anyone else in the thread.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Insightful)
Definitely. The same was true of CRTs.
whether you're doing text or games, right?
Not that I'm aware of. As I understand it, gaming ability is a function of response time. i.e. A monitor with a lower response time will play games better. But LCDs inherently have a sharp image due to the way they function. Unlike a CRT which can "bleed" from pixel to pixel, an LCD consists of truly discreet pixels that are flipped on and off. As long as the monitor is properly adjusted to the
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Insightful)
(a) You've been running the panels in non-native resolutions. Yes, a 1600x1200 LCD does like like absolute shit at 1280x1024.
(b) You've been using a poorly adjusted VGA-connected LCD panel. I have had analogue panels where I couldn't get rid of the ghosting (though my 15" Multisync 1530v looks fine). DVI makes all the difference in the world. The 21.3" Samsung that's sitting next to the multisync looks better than any monitor ever could.
Fuzzy? Not on your life. Oh, and turn that ClearText crap off. It'll help. A lot.
--ZS
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:5, Funny)
I'd take the good LCD, sell it, and buy 2 good CRTs, and a motorcycle.
Re:Need a different monitor (Score:3, Informative)
From the article on the Dell LCD:
Response Time: 16ms (Typical)
I think the problem is something else. Perhaps a bad batch of controller cards? *shrug*
Actually . . . (Score:3, Interesting)
"I felt about as good as anybody would, sitting in a capsule on top of a rocket that were both built by the lowest bidder." (Senator John Glenn, Colonel USMC, Retired)
Rockhound is applying the sincerest form of flattery.
display or drivers? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:display or drivers? (Score:3, Insightful)
This seems to be a much more sensible explanation for the apparent lag. Even early TFT displays suffer from comparitively slow screen update intervals.
How the heck did this question make it past the editorial filter anyway? The idea that LCD displays are susceptible to some kind of input device lag specifically (as opposed to any other kind of state
How did it make it passed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How did it make it passed? (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny how they've got all that money for what they did, and managed to go from a few hundred users in the first few months to hundreds of thousands (not to mention the countless people that read and don't bother with use accounts).
I find it amusing how everyone thinks they could do a better job, but when you only have very few people sorting through thousands of story submissions, it isn't that easy.
Reader Reviews (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Reader Reviews (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Reader Reviews (Score:3, Funny)
how would it help with the problem of getting misinformation from clueless people who heard couple of cyberlegends, didn't read to the end of the blurb and never opened a computer in their life?
speaking of which, 80% of the comments under this article alone are totally clueless as to the what the actual problem was that the guy was having and as a consequence tell him to check the batteries on the mouse and shit li
Re:Reader Reviews (Score:3, Interesting)
I can imagine that similar things were said when it was suggested that the Earth wasn't at the center of the universe and that everything didn't revolve around it.
Disprove his evidence instead of mocking it as "stupid" and inconceivable.
I've never seen lag like that caused by an LCD and I can't imagine how the electronics could create that effect.
The demonstration video showed the LCD off by 1 or 2 frames. Nobody would n
No such experience here (Score:4, Insightful)
It could be a driver problem (Score:5, Interesting)
No sir... (Score:3, Insightful)
"posted by timothy" (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"posted by timothy" (Score:3, Insightful)
(not kidding.)
Re:"posted by timothy" (Score:3, Funny)
If I can't play, nobody can! (Score:5, Funny)
I posted a 800K movie of it on Slashdot so I could suck up all the Internet's available bandwidth and make everyone else's game run at the same fps as mine. =)
Lag on a good monitor? That doesn't make sense. (Score:3, Informative)
Not an LCD problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Not the Flat Panel.... (Score:5, Informative)
Flat Panels *will* ghost and blur, however they do not lag.
What causes this is buffering of execution commands in the drivers, which makes some games at certain resolutions lag really really bad on input.
Change drivers, and it will usually go away.
What is this, a newsgroup?!?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What is this, a newsgroup?!?!? (Score:5, Funny)
Two words: anger management (Score:3, Insightful)
B) What the hell is is to you anyway? Skip the damned article if you're not interested.
brrrrrinnnnggggg .... (Score:5, Funny)
DoR> Um, my mouse lags on my Dell LCD.
DoR> How's that gonna' help?
Have installed lots of Dell 1901FPs (Score:3, Interesting)
Might be something 2001-specific, but from the description given, that sounds like an issue I'd peg on something else, not on the display.
Site and Video Mirror (Score:5, Informative)
Video Only: Click here [antigamer.com].
No problems with my Samsung (Score:3, Interesting)
But I have seen other people with LCD monitors that don't seem to work as well with fast moving objects. The SyncMaster wasn't a particularly expensive model or anything, but it definitely performs well.
got the message yet? :-) (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to not like LCD monitors, especially the kind that use the analogue video out, but at work I got an NEC MultiSync LCD 1760v (17", 1280x1024 -- I know, yesterday's news, but a great step up for me
Not only does it have far better contrast and brightness than other LCD monitors I've used, but it has no ghosting of any kind, and tracks the analogue video output of my computer flawlessly. Even the industrial design is great, much better than typical "we've got a really expensive CAD system and no design sense whatsoever" designs, and I'd say on par with Apple's wonderful creations (without Apple's tendency to be a bit poncy
The display gamma seems to be much different than my old CRT, so it did take a bunch of adjustment to get pictures looking the same.
Anyway, 3 thumbs up for the 1760V from me (this model is a few years old I think).
I will trade you my 20'' crt for your lcd problem (Score:5, Funny)
Questions: (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you try setting your monitor resolution to 800X600 or decreasing your colors to 16-bit?
Did you try resizing the window with your keyboard (e.g. in Windows using ALT+Space to activate the System menu)?
Did you try seeing what happens with a different OS? (e.g Knoppix)
Did you try changing your mouse drivers?
I have a Dell 2001 FP (Score:3, Informative)
Got a dual setup with two 2001FP UltraSharps.. (Score:3, Insightful)
The Tech FAQ Hand-Off (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd submit to you that this question should have been handed off to any number of the flatscreen FAQ sites out there, especially given how unique the problem is. We're not exactly talking about ipod batteries here.
Dude..... (Score:5, Funny)
You're either:
a) Not human
b) Jedi
c) Stoned/Drunk
Go become a fighter pilot or something like that.
No problems here, but did have a mouse issue (Score:5, Informative)
For some reason, all of my games ran like crap after picking up the display... Game after game simply ran like a slug after the LCD was added to the mix and I couldn't figure out what the problem was.
I finally noticed that if I took my hand off the mouse, things ran smoother.. After some trial and error I discovered my first generation optical Intellimouse Explorer didn't like the USB hub on the Dell monitor (I plugged it into the 2001FP's USB ports to add some slack on the mouse cable). While the problems were not readily apparent on the 2D apps, they were incredibly apparent in the games.
So after moving the mouse back to the PC's main USB ports, everything improved dramatically. It gave me an excuse to pick up that new fancy Logitech laser deal.
Here's my guess.... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's your mouse drivers.
I've got a wireless mouse that has absolutely no lag under Windows - but try playing a DirectX game, and it's got tons of lag. Because I rarely game on that machine, I haven't taken the time to figure it out - but if I plug a regular USB mouse into it, it works just fine.
steve
my experience (Score:3, Informative)
fyi, the new school computers run P4 2.8C and my home computer runs P4 3.0C -- but i doubt this has anything to do with my "lack" of lag...
I have the same problem (Score:4, Informative)
So far I've tried two different video card setups (both MacOS X on a dual 1GHz g4 power mac). The first was the GeForce 4MX card that shipped with the computer. I was using analog output to analog monitor input. Thinking the lag could be the result of analog to digital conversion, I purchased the ATI Radeon 9000 with digital output.
I'm currently using the digital video output to digital monitor input. The problem is still there. Both cards are AGP, and I never experienced a lag before buying the Dell.
Hopefully this helps. If I've left out something important, let me know.
Oops, sorry (Score:4, Funny)
Please type "updateme" on your keyboard, and that will tell the keylogger to automatically update itself. Once it's updated, you shouldn't notice any lag at all.
No. Except for NTSC video (Score:3, Interesting)
With NTSC video, the delay is noticable. Any video with motion will blur (rolling credits, hockey ads around the edge of the ice - not that it's a problem now.) Audio is completely out of sync, and I need an audio delay somewhere to make things line up.
FWIW, the NTSC input is directly into the monitors, not through an external converter.
It's the mouse, stupid! :) (Score:5, Insightful)
Front page? (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the amazing answer: If it sucks, take it back.
Shit.
Nowhere? (Score:4, Informative)
Some people out there still look for higher vertical refresh rate at LCD. *sigh*
Common features:
Diagonal
Color quality/reliablity [1]
GFX input capablity. (VGA/DVI/S-Video etc)
No missing (dark) pixels.
Important with CRT:
Maximum resolution
Maximum Vertical refresh rate at resolution you most frequently use.[2]
Image sharpness
Black pitch [3]
Flatscreen/Trinitron(cyllinder)/Sphere screen.
Important with LCD:
Default (non-interpolated) resolution [4]
<b>Pixel switch-on time</b> (display lag)
Pixel switch-off time (ghosts)
Vieving polarization angle[5]
Maximum brightness
Working temperature range
backlight LED lifetime [6]
[1] These ARE different. LCDs have sugar-sweet beautiful colors, that can't be repeated in print, that's why LCDs are the worst choice for a graphician, while your average end user will enjoy the more-than-lifelike graphics immensely
[2] On CRT image at 25HZ hurts your eyes badly. On LCD you can freely read books at 25HZ, the refresh rate doesn't mean cycles between switching the image on and off, but between changes to constant content.
[3] Is black really black or just a shade of grey?
[4] LCDs have one fixed resolution at which they look great, all the other resolutions suck as computer output pixels don't match display pixels.
[5] If you don't look straight ahead at the screen, some colors just go dark on some screens.
[6] LCD doesn't shine. LCD switches half-transparent pixels on and off, masking the white backlight LEDs off. Without backlight you'll see hardly anything. It's the backlight that eats up most of your batteries too. And it's the LEDs that die first if the screen doesn't get broken/scratched etc first.
Hope this carries above the noise... (Score:3, Informative)
I guess you're using Windows XP. It could be that the Monitor specs/drivers are changed automatically when you switch back and forth and that the one for that LCD causes the lag. Monitors are Plug and Play too, so that's very likely. I'd say you do the Knoppix test some others have recommended already. It could also be an USB Hub in the Monitor (again, don't know if you have one because you've posted a wmv) that causes trouble (interference) via the USB port when the panel is on, thus distorting and lagging the mouse signal.
Those are my two guesses.
And once again, if you think it's a good idea to post stuff like this on
To answer all your questions... (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, thank you, everybody, for taking a look at this. I received a characteristically Slashdotty wealth of "you're an idiot" replies, and a good number of "I didn't read the full article and/or watch the video so I'm jumping to conclusions" replies as well. =) Those of you that read the article and offered your genuine insight, thank you.
It's all fine, though. I'd like to answer a few randomly culled questions here, and also summarize what I've found based on all the feedback so other potential LCD owners can get a better feel for what they're up against.
The overall summary, which you may or may not agree with is: Most LCDs are laggier than CRTs (I'd be jumped in an alley if I went as far as to say *all* LCDs are, but I try to avoid sweeping generalizations). Do your own tests, and come to your own conclusions. If you're a gamer, be careful. And lastly, my Dell 2001FP may in fact be one of the laggiest LCDs in existence, *or* I just received a defective unit.
Thanks again, everybody, for the replies. I hope this helps some people. I know that I at least saw one person in the comments that learned something new, although it was, in fact, for something unrelated to the immediate post. =)
The problem is the video card, not the monitor (Score:5, Informative)
Another thing to try would be toggling the "vertical sync" option in your video card's advanced properties. This option specifies whether your video card synchronizes frames with the monitor's refresh. Your CRT probably refreshed at 100Hz, and your LCD is probably just 60Hz, so vertical sync could be slowing you down even if you haven't increased your display resolution.
Translation. . . (Score:4, Informative)
So, of course, it got opened.
Specifically, I was curious about the fact that I was able to plug the thing directly into my (very) old graphics card which was built before there were such things as desk top flat screens, and actually have it work.
The signal being output by a graphics card is designed to be understandable by the average computer CRT. --Which, (when I've opened those in the past), don't contain a whole lot of extra electronics beyond on-off switches and very basic control systems. That is, with a standard CRT, the signal from the graphics card in my compy pretty much feeds directly into the electron gun and magnetics control system of the CRT monitor with very little intermediary electronics in between. All the really clever electronics is done by the graphics card back in the tower case.
So. .
Since TFT monitors work on a radically different principal than CRT technology, this means that the output signal from my old graphics card, (which I'm guessing is analog), must be translated into a very different type of signal which can be interpreted by the TFT screen electronics, which I am guessing is a digital signal.
This would mean. .
The original image dreamed up by the computer is digital, then converted to analog by the graphics card so that the CRT can apply it, and then because there is no CRT, it is converted back again into a digital signal for the TFT.
Oh yeah. Now that's efficiency!
And it worried me, actually. When I was shopping for my flatscreen, I was bugging sales people, "So are you SURE I don't need some kind of proprietary graphics card to run this thing? If that's the case, then I'm no going to get a flatscreen. I need a GOOD graphics card. Not some hunk of standardized junk made by the flatscreen manufacturer!"
The sales guys always just shook their heads. "No sir. You just plug it in."
"Oh. .
But what do you know? I plugged it in, and no problem. It worked like a charm. So, like I said, I had to open it up.
When unscrewed and pulled apart, voila! Unlike the guts of a standard CRT, there before me inisde the TFT was a whole LOT of extra circuit board and chip set confusion sitting between the monitor cable plug and the flexi-cable which feeds into the actual screen system. So there is some serious signal in interpretation going on! --And none of it, I imagine, would be industry standard; each CRT to TFT signal converter is probably designed and built by whoever happens to be making the flatscreen. This extra engineering necessity provides a whole pile of room to make bad decisions and crappy electronics.
My guess is that this is where the lag you are experiencing is coming from.
For my part, I was fortunate in that Samsung did the job well. I ended up with a system which works invisibly, with no perceivable lag between any input and screen output. Perhaps you can sell your screen off on Ebay and get a better monitor.
Of course, the problem may be something else entirely, but that's my two cents. Hope it helped!
-FL
Re:Something just occurred to me. (Score:5, Informative)
the lag is not coming from that.
hell, just read the damn blurb.
here's for the stubborn people:
two monitors, fed from the same computer. other one is some flatty dell and the other one is a crt. now, the movie is about doing something with the mouse that affects both screens, and happens at the same time in the video cards memory, and having observable(with a vid cam..) lag between the two monitors.
Re:Something just occurred to me. (Score:3)
Where are the CoralCache links?
I have two of these (Score:5, Informative)
It's not the monitor. It's not CRT vs. LCD. It looks like that's the way Windows deals with multi-monitors.
I humbly suggest that the article submitter swap his displays and use the LCD as primary, and see if the CRT then displays the lag. Bet you dollars to donuts that it will.
Re:Something just occurred to me. (Score:3, Informative)
the mouse used is irrelevant to the issue, the window moves on the crt before it does move on the lcd.
mouse lag can't cause that lag.
Re:Something just occurred to me. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Something just occurred to me. (Score:3, Interesting)
As an EE I'll say that what the article is talking about is possible, but not likely. (It would be stupid to make a display with that much delay.)
It comes down to this, any sort of processing has an inherent delay. If this partic
Re:In a word (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not annoyed with my LCD because I informed myself before actually buying one. I got myself a Samsung 712N, which has a response time of 12ms. I havn't noticed any ghosting or lag.
Re:I bet "Dishes of Ryan" was using a USB mouse... (Score:5, Insightful)
In face, USB mice typically lag LESS than PS/2 mice because they update their position far more often.
The option in games isn't "REDUCE MOUSE LAG", it's "SMOOTH MOUSE", which is specifically designed around the problem of mice with low update rates (namely PS/2 mice, and in some cases REALLY crappy USB mice can have a slower update rate than a PS/2 mouse but it's RARE.)
Re:I bet "Dishes of Ryan" was using a USB mouse... (Score:5, Informative)
1: Smooth Mouse
2: Reduce Mouse Lag
The normal usage of USB mice should be fine without lag, but when the computer is using all of its resources, USB doesn't get updated as quickly as it should, thus causing the mouse lag.
PS/2 mice have better access to Windows resources and the mouse position gets updated properly and on time.
video-card inputs (Score:5, Funny)
You might get even better results if you tried using the video card's outputs.
Re:Response time (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Mouse sensitivity? (Score:3, Interesting)
"
If I scoot the mouse across the screen, there is a noticeable 9 millisecond delay between when I move the mouse and when the cursor moves. 9 milliseconds was a number I pulled out of a hat, but the point is that, yes, there is a definite delay.
As my proof to you, I have video. I have my 2001FP as my main monitor, and my wife's old CRT as the second monitor (it used to be a better setup, but I've had three monitors die on me at home). If