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The Secret Behind the iPod Scroll Wheel 350

Posted by CmdrTaco from the didn't-know-there-was-a-secret dept.
Grump sent in a story saying "Ask any iPod user what they like the most about their device, and most will probably mention the scrollwheel. Here is the story behind the company that makes it (hint: it's not Apple). Great not just for the history, but insight as to both how Apple's design process works, and how the scroll wheel itself works."
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The Secret Behind the iPod Scroll Wheel More

The Secret Behind the iPod Scroll Wheel

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  • clickwheel? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Do they mean the clickwheel? Or is this actually about the previous generations with the scrollwheel?

    • The Wheel (Score:4, Informative)

      by simpl3x ( 238301 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @11:08AM (#10309152)
      Bang and Olufsen used the exact same wheel on one of their telephones several years before Apple. While Synaptics might make the technology, and would have had to re-engineer aspects to suit Apple, the design itself is pre-Apple in almost every way. This would be like saying that Apple invented the mouse--they just poularized it.

  • Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig.hogger@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:35AM (#10308187) Journal
    25 years ago, Tektronix graphic terminals had scroll-wheels for cursor movement (this was before mice became widespread). And Hewlett-Packard had an innovative scrollwheel that was usable in both directions (in conjunction with the cursor keys) on the 9836 series desktop computers.

    • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Funny)

      by pmc ( 40532 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:45AM (#10308304) Homepage
      And, to bring scolling to the audio world, I have a very old (15 years) Sony Tuner that has a scroll wheel for choosing between the preset stations (up to 30). And it does the cute trick of the faster you spin the faster the choices go by. I don't think this was particularly innovative then either, but I think it's the oldest device I have with such an interface.
      • I never really thought much of the scroll wheel on the iPod either, but I knew it was just a variation of the track pad like my laptop has (which is also a synaptics).
      • I have a very old (15 years) Sony Tuner that has a scroll wheel for choosing between the preset stations (up to 30). And it does the cute trick of the faster you spin the faster the choices go by.
        Was it Marrantz who had a tuner with an electromagnetic brake that slowed-down the tuning wheel wherever a station signal was stronger???

      • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Funny)

        by Bio ( 18940 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:07AM (#10308525) Homepage Journal
        And I had a telephone, that had a scroll wheel to dial numbers. There were 10 holes in the wheel with digits printed underneath. There was even a mechanism to rotate the wheel back into its rest position, after you moved it.

        • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:4, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:42AM (#10308881)
          ATARI PONG scroll wheel changed my life..I now live in a basement and I'm still a virgin.

        • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Funny)

          by jdavidb ( 449077 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @11:25AM (#10309384) Homepage Journal

          True story

          My grandfather worked for the telephone company 45 years. For a long time, his job involved dealing with customers who came in off the street.

          In the days of rotary phones, the dialed number was detected by the amount of time it took the dial to return to the resting position. (Number of pulses sent as it made the trip, actually, I believe.)

          So one day this woman comes in complaining that every time she dials a number which she knows is the right number, (in her words) "Some hussy comes on there and tells me there's no such number!" This woman was seriously offended by the (recorded, I think, and probably new in those days) suggestion that she was getting the wrong number, when she simply knew it had to be right.

          So my grandfather handed her a phone and offered to let her make the call there in the office. The woman snatches the phone and angrily starts dialing her number -- but she's in such a big snit that every time she turns the dial around, she doesn't wait for it to finish; she grabs the dial and forces it back around to the resting position so she can get on with dialing the next number. I'm sure this technique resulted in an enormous time savings to her, probably adding a full five seconds of free time to her life if she did it for every call she made in forty years, but of course it prevented the phone from properly dialing the number since everything was based on the timing for that dial.

          My grandfather started to explain this to the woman, but she was enraged and said, "Are you trying to tell me how to dial a phone?" Well, er, yes, ma'am, amazingly phone company employees probably knew a little bit more than you about how to dial a telephone. Not much more, but enough to know that what you were doing would never work. I think the woman finally got fed up and stormed out.

          People are amazing.

          • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:4, Interesting)

            by pthisis ( 27352 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @12:15PM (#10310101) Homepage Journal
            In the days of rotary phones, the dialed number was detected by the amount of time it took the dial to return to the resting position. (Number of pulses sent as it made the trip, actually, I believe.)

            As someone who still has a rotary phone...

            It just hung up the phone briefly, once for 1, twice for 2, ... 10 times for 0.

            If you have pulse service in your area still, you can dial the phone by just hitting the hangup button repeatedly--it's not too tough to get the timing down.

          • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Interesting)

            by ChicagoBiker ( 702744 ) <turkchgo@@@mac...com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @12:33PM (#10310329) Homepage
            Amazingly, because of this system, perceived "higher priority/class" area's were given lower numbered area codes because they were quicker to dial on the rotary phone and would cause the user less aggravation and time (1 taking the shortest amount of time and 0 taking the most).

            It's why New York is/was 212 and Chicago 312, etc.

            909 would be considered the most unimportant place on the planet for the time.

            The really privliaged and status hungry would beg, steal or borrow to attempt to get an old 5 digit number like 1-1111 or 1-1221.

            • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:3, Interesting)

              by Anonymous Coward
              So close...

              It was actually because it took the mechanical switches the phone company used back then less time to make a circuit connection to route a call to a popular area. Each number dialed made another connection in the final circuit, and they have to complete serially. Back then, there was an appreciable wait as the circuits were connected to get you a channel to your destination.

              The phone company could not really care less about the time saved by one person dialing, but the time saved routing mill
          • Actually a rotary phone does not use timing what so ever. The turning of the dial creates a current that is sent up the line. 4 pulses sent for the number 4 and so on. Grabbing the dial and forcing it back to the starting place still sends the correct amount of digits. If you notice when you force a dial on a rotary phone you can only force it so much. The resistance that exist for the whatever mechanics make the current do not allow you to turn it back as fast as you can.

            I am sorry but your story is more

            • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Informative)

              by 87C751 ( 205250 ) <sdot AT rant-central DOT com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @01:40PM (#10311167) Homepage
              Actually a rotary phone does not use timing what so ever.
              Kids, these days...

              Standard pulse timing is 10 pps, with a window from about 7.5-12 IIRC. It's been a while since I had to adjust the little mechanical governor that controlled the rotary dial return rate. Duty cycle is 50%. Pulse too slow and it will be mistaken for a hookflash. Too fast and you'll exceed the slew rate of the switch and drop pulses. Mechanical switches are, of course, more succeptible to too-fast pulse rates. Electronic switches can probably accept faster than 12 pps, but 10 is still the standard.

              The "turning of the dial" creates no current. It interrupts the circuit. So does the hookswitch, which led to being able to "dial" a phone with the hookswitch. You still had to have good manual dexterity, especially when there were higher numbers in the number you were trying to reach. This was popular in the days when a coin telephone disabled only the dial circuit and not the voice path. Nowadays, of course, you can't do this because the dial tone you hear when you pick up is generated by the phone itself, which accepts your call information and then decides how to route the call.

    • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Aphrika ( 756248 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:52AM (#10308367)
      Pong had scroll wheels of a sort for cursor movement too - translating rotational into linear motion. I think that was around 30-odd years ago. Since then we've had the early 80s consoles and jog dials.

      However, I find it quite interesting how old ideas are reborn - if someone said 10 years ago that there'd be a big rotational dial on the front of the biggest selling music player in 2004, I wouldn't have believed them... same with analogue controls on synthesizers which have recently made a comeback.

    • Re:Nothing really new there... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by catwh0re ( 540371 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:15AM (#10308607)
      Another more recent (but before the original non-touch wheel iPod) are in B&O home phones, where you scroll your list of phone contacts on a very small touch-sensitive scroll wheel... and select your contact with a centre button.

      The only difference in the apple design is that it's significantly larger.

      On a design perspective, nothing is original, it's design brilliance however to know when to use already created design elements in contrast to making a new one (MS can you hear me?) It's also no trick that the ipod is the same dimensions as a cassette. The ipod mini.. same dimensions of a business card. (The design ethic here is: Why pick shapes that people aren't already used to having?)

      • On a design perspective, nothing is original, it's design brilliance however to know when to use already created design elements in contrast to making a new one (MS can you hear me?)

        Such as using the already created WHEEL on the already created MOUSE? Or the already created LED with the already created DIGITAL CAMERA with the already created MOUSE?

        Microsoft has come up with some cool hardware products.
      • A wheel and central click button implementation that is _exactly_ like the 1st gen iPod appeared in 1998 on the Beocom 6000 Bang and Olufsen system.
        http://www.danchan.com/feature/2001/02/25/beocom/ b eocom.htm [danchan.com]

        The user interface is the same: scroll through options or through the system's phone directory by rotating the wheel. Enter your choices by clicking the center button.

        All four volume settings are also controlled via the wheel: ringer volume, phone speaker volume, stereo volume, and tv volume.
    • And let's not forget Roland's "Alpha-Dial" that appears on many of their musical instrument products...

  • Why is this such a big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by raider_red ( 156642 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:35AM (#10308193) Journal
    The scroll wheel is just a round touchpad and is based on the same technology Synapsis has patents on. It even feels the same as the touchpad on my PowerBook.

    Touchpads are the best thing that ever happened to this company. They're getting licensing fees and royalties on almost every notebook sold, or they make money directly as the component vendor for the touch pads.

    • Sorry, it's Synaptics, not Synapsis. I'm going to go wake up now.

    • Re:Why is this such a big deal? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Maestro4k ( 707634 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:43AM (#10308276) Journal
      • The scroll wheel is just a round touchpad and is based on the same technology Synapsis has patents on. It even feels the same as the touchpad on my PowerBook.
      I have a 4th gen iPod with the click wheel and after I finally figured out you just moved your finger to scroll (it wasn't immediately obvious and I've not had the opportunity to use previous versions) I've found it to be far more responsive than the touchpads I've encountered on notebooks. I have a Sony Vaio at work and I hate the touchpad on it, it's very difficult to control and way too sensitive registering double clicks even when my finger doesn't leave the surface. (Apparently pausing with your finger on the touchpad counts, I can't find a way to adjust the settings to fix it.)

      So I'd have to say that with the current generation clickwheels the touchpad on the iPod is far better. It's just sensitive enough without being too sensitive and it requires no adjustment to work that way. That alone is an achievement since there are so many different finger sizes out there and different people are going to push with different pressures.

      • Touchpads are the best thing that ever happened to this company. They're getting licensing fees and royalties on almost every notebook sold, or they make money directly as the component vendor for the touch pads.
      And deservedly so, they obviously can make some top notch ones (iPod clickwheel) so they're really earned those fees and royalties. At least they're not an IP company making money via lawsuit. :)
      • There's a lot of stuff that Synaptics can add to the iPod scrollwheel that they have in regular touchpads (maybe Apple doesn't let them)? In particular, they have software that can determine the "weight" of a button press (so the pad can detect varying degrees of pressure). If you have a laptop with a Synaptics pad, there's a "mood" application that demonstrates it using funky colors.

        They also have the ill-fated LCD touchpads that were on Toshibas. Why bother having that main screen at all. Put the scr

    • Re:Why is this such a big deal? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:56AM (#10308396)
      Personally I rather dislike touchpads in general, I prefer a mouse or failing that something like the IBM touch point. However the iPod scrollwheel is an exception. There may not be anything new about the touchpad or scrollwheel each on its own but implementing a scrollwheel using a touchpad is a very good idea. Sometimes genius lies in re-implementing an old device using new technology.

  • Fingerprint Touchpad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Lord Grey ( 463613 ) * on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:37AM (#10308201)
    The company that designed the scroll wheel is Synaptics [synaptics.com]. They have another product called the Fingerprint TouchPad [synaptics.com] that is basically a tiny fingerprint scanner/authentication device. I've always thought that this kind of device would be great if it was integrated into something I have hold to use, such as my cell phone or mouse. Biometric security isn't absolute security, but it can be one level of security that is nearly invisible if implemented correctly. Neat stuff.
  • Volume goes up and down, but we're all used to round nobs for that. I can think of very few instances where a up-down lever is used to control a device instead of a circular mechanism.
    Car stereos, but that's relatively recent, what else?
    • Transporter controls from Start Trek?

    • Re:Up and Down vs Round and Round (Score:5, Interesting)

      by moonbender ( 547943 ) <moonbender@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:12AM (#10308574)
      It depends on the situation which controller makes more sense.

      Circular controllers:
      • can control an unbounded parameter (just continue turning)
      • can control a bounded parameter with arbitrary precision, e.g. one turn of the wheel doesn't have to go through to whole scale (ie. radio station tuning)
      • set the parameter relative to it's last value
      Up-down controllers:
      • can not control unbounded parameters at all
      • offer a precision limited by their size
      • offer reference on where you are on an absolute scale (and thus a specific position always correlates to a specific value)
      That said, up-down controllers can be made to emulate the behaviour of circular ones. You can make an up-down controller simulate relative behaviour by automatically returning the "knob" to the neutral position after the user is done. That way, the up-down controller can be used to set the current value +/- a certain range, and with enough phases the user can control an arbitrary range.
      Obviously this is very easy on the computer, and fairly difficult with real devices. I've seen it done a couple of days ago in ChaosPro, a fractal generator. It's not the way you'd expect a scroll bar in a computer to work, though, but it's a lot better than the various virtual circular controllers some applications insist on using - circular controller really don't lend themselves well in computer GUIs, I think.
    • speed controllers on ships (full speed ahead, and damn the torpedos!)

      Gear sticks, especially on automatic cars.

      Levers to hold open windows are usually graduated on a linear scale.

      Linear controls make most sense when you have a limited number of finite positions, especially when they are a linear progression from each other.

  • Still, though... (Score:4, Funny)

    by StevenHenderson ( 806391 ) <stevehenderson AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:37AM (#10308212)
    Regardless of how "cool" or "useful" the scroll wheel is on the Apple iPod, I still think that the one on the HP iPod is FAR better.

    [/joke]

  • Yeah... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Blue-Footed Boobie ( 799209 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:37AM (#10308213)
    Cool little article, although, I have heard of synaptics before - actually L-O-N-G before. Anyone who installed Linux on an old HP laptop can tell you that!

    • Re:Yeah... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by GlassUser ( 190787 ) <slashdot.glassuser@net> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:56AM (#10308394) Homepage Journal
      Cool little article, although, I have heard of synaptics before - actually L-O-N-G before. Anyone who installed Linux on an old HP laptop can tell you that!

      Yep, I remember getting a little standalone synaptics touchpad in 1996 as a novelty from a local computer junk store (microcache for anyone in Houston who knows of them - they bought the enron E monument at auction and have it in a small shrine now).

      Any way, some people totally loved it (the touchpad) and one guy now has them on all his computers (even desktops) instead of a mouse.

  • Information? (Score:5, Informative)

    by brufleth ( 534234 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:38AM (#10308226)
    This "article" just shows some pictures of what I can only assume is the touch sensitive plates under the wheels. It doesn't explain anything about them and how they work, nor does it really talk about the "design process."

  • Missing details (Score:5, Informative)

    by gkelman ( 665809 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:39AM (#10308230) Homepage Journal
    but insight as to both how Apple's design process works, and how the scroll wheel itself works.

    The article doesn't say how the scroll wheel works. It also doesn't mention anything about Apple's design process...
    • "It also doesn't mention anything about Apple's design process"

      Well, actually, it does. It's basically Apple had little part in designing the iPod. The chips and design were outsourced (see that old Wired article). All they did was have Jobs give an ok and stamp an Apple logo on it. Why innovate when you can purchase?

      • Wildly misleading (Score:5, Insightful)

        by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06NO@SPAMemail.com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @11:21AM (#10309339)
        Just because Apple didn't make the parts doesn't mean they just "purchased" the iPod.

        Their design team came up with a great concept, found people who could put it together relatively inexpensively (and in an extraordinarily quick amount of time). They have managed this project superbly. Everybody else (both in the MP3 player market and in computer field in general) had access to all of the elements that Apple did. None of them came close to putting together anyting remotely as functional, stylish, easy (and they still haven't)

  • no duh! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nordicfrost ( 118437 ) * on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:39AM (#10308234)
    It is a touchpas, and Synaptics makes practically all the touchpads for Laptops, PDAs and mice. I don't think a lot of people thought that Apple made the touchpad itself. AFAIK, most people know that the Apple genius behind the iPod is quality bought components from companies that make them better than you (Synaptics, PortablePlayer, Sony) combined with Apple design and user friendliness.

  • Mouse wheel? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by millwall ( 622730 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:39AM (#10308238)

    The company made a straightened-out version of it for Creative's Zen Touch

    It amazes me why they haven't considered making a mouse with this straightened-out version. Scroll wheels for mice would benefit from some development. Mine keeps getting stuck and makes an annoying sound when scrolling

    • my touchpad on my HP/Compaq nx9010 has a pad, and a touch scroll thing just to the right of the pad, just like that nomad.

      Pic of it is here [com.com]

    • Re:Mouse wheel? (Score:4, Informative)

      by TonyZahn ( 534930 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:48AM (#10308326) Homepage
      It amazes me why they haven't considered making a mouse with this straightened-out version.

      You mean like this [kensington.com] perhaps?

      • Try to give that thing a test drive before putting down cash- I personally find it very uncomfortable to use and it's probably worse for the carpal tunnel than a scroll wheel already is.
    • The problem is that in some user-interface scenarios (switching weapons in FPS games?), the "notched-wheel" type tactile feedback becomes an asset. When you're trying to smooth-scroll, however, you run into what you complain about. Of course, in the former case, you could simply make touching the upper area of the strip a "click forward" and touching the lower area a "click backward"... but I suppose it wouldn't feel the same.

      I love UI problems... there's never an ideal solution but a good compromise can b
    • Physical wheels offer some tactile feedback, which is worth a lot.

  • Why we all love iPod: (Score:5, Funny)

    by aardwolf204 ( 630780 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:41AM (#10308263)
    Scroll Wheel, whatever, everyone knows people get iPods because they help you get mod points on Slashdot. Speaking of which, I got my iPod last month and haven't seen any yet. Maybe it takes a while for the ultra-hip-people-database to update. Anyway, I'm expecting those mod points any day now. Infact now that I've got an iPod, a copy of FireFox, AND a gmail account I'm almost too hip for slashdot. Yeah!

    </sarcasm>
  • The power-switch on the iMac. How great it is and how you can find it.

    • Re:Next week on Slashdot (Score:4, Funny)

      by Tenebrious1 ( 530949 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:03AM (#10308476) Homepage
      The power-switch on the iMac. How great it is and how you can find it.

      With an indepth article regarding Apple's design process, and the exciting decision whether to make the power switch click or not.

    • Just this morning I had a heck of a time with my kids' alarm clock. The way the buttons are located on that thing is just... unbelievable. The way the snooze feature works manages to be unfriendly to the point of the clock almost seeming possessed, I swear. They like how it looks at night, but it's a nightmare design for something so seemingly simple.

      Little things mean a lot sometimes. Try using a Sony vertical-design mini-DV camcorder sometime, and see how you like the rocker-switch zoom.

  • Nipples - the original scroll wheel (Score:4, Funny)

    by mreed911 ( 794582 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:42AM (#10308270)
    Rub them in circles and you'll get louder, softer, or a range somewhere in between...

    also works best when you have a good grip and use your thumb!

  • How does it work? Well it must be... (Score:3, Informative)

    by ttlgDaveh ( 798546 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:43AM (#10308278) Homepage

    ...capacitive. It must be, or something fairly similar.

    It explains why the human finger can operate the wheel, but drag a BIC biro round the wheel and nothing happens.

    • It would explain the wierd (and beautiful) shapes on the pad. The capacitance measured gradually increases on each pad as your finger is above more of the pads surface area. Radial baoundaries between the pads would give pretty sharp cut offs, and constant values whilst within an individual pad. The pointy pattern makes the transition more gradual and smooth.
    • I'm still acutely without iPod, but a friend let me take hers to the gym recently. I now consider the coolest feature being able to use the scroll wheel through fabric. I'm sure it wouldn't work with denim, but through typical cotton gym shorts, I could just reach down and draw circles on my thigh. Totally surreal. Between that and some fleshtone headphones, I could further reduce unnecessary interaction with humanity by a factor of 10!
  • I just assumed it was made by Synaptics. All of the cool touchpads that allow scrolling and stuff are made by them. I'm not talking about touchpads that just transfer relative movements, but pads that can actually tell the computer where on the touchpad that it is pressed, like a wacom.

    I think that is neat because then you have a grid and it can be used as buttons like it is on the 4g ipods.

    Chris

  • Thank you for this story! (Score:5, Funny)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi@@@yahoo...com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:49AM (#10308338) Journal
    I've been changing songs on my iPod by rotating the entire thing around my stationary finger. I sure was having doubts about Apple until I read this - I mean, that's a ton of work.

    Thank you for revealing the secret!

    I'm wondering if there isn't a secret behind other things too, like my TV's remote control. It works alright, but it's tough to push the little buttons on the TV with it sometimes.

  • Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @09:50AM (#10308347)
    I read a couple articles elsewhere proclaiming "APPLE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR TOUCHWHEEL!!!@" only to find that Apple is responsible for it.

    They conceived it, they narrowly specified its behavior, they brought it to market. Just because a contractor was involved that means Apple's "not responsible" for its creation? Apple's responsible more than ever: the corralled the capabilities and efforts necessary to make it a reality.
    • Well, actually, Synaptics pitched the idea to Apple first. It took Apple a year or so to come back and "narrowly specify" the design they ended up with.
  • Eliot Van Buskirk writes his MP3 Insider [cnet.com] column semi-regularly for C|Net. It's pretty decent. He doesn't scoop anyone, but he's smart. I didn't know he used the MP3 Insider name elsewhere.

    He also forgot to set up mail forwarding. I just moved into a new apartment, and I keep getting mail for an Eliot Van Buskirk. I wonder if it's the same guy...

  • Anyone Else Hate It? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ras_b ( 193300 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:00AM (#10308447)
    I love the ipod, but hate the scroll wheel. I use my ipod in my car frequently. sometimes scrolling through that thing is worse then driving and talking on a cell phone. i look down, i'm one 'click' above the artist/song that i want, look at road, look down, scroll ever so slightly, end up one notch past what i want, look at road, look down, scroll ever so slightly, one notch past again, and so on.

    the new click wheel looks a lot nicer and would probably solve that problem, but i have the old one.
    • The click wheel works exactly like the scroll wheel. The only thing that it replaces are the 4 buttons just underneath the screen.

      I use my iPod in the car all the time (most of my iPod use is in the car). I find that having a playlist of high-rated songs that are randomly selected tends to cut down on the amount of operation that I need to put in. If I don't like the song, I just hit the 'forward' button, and I'm done with it. For in-car use, pre-generated playlists are the way to go. Otherwise, just wait

    • Re:Anyone Else Hate It? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rufo ( 126104 ) <rufo AT rufosanchez DOT com> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:44AM (#10308906)
      On touchpads, I find the best way to do fine movements is to just pivot your thumb - not exactly moving it, but just roll your finger while maintaing contact with the pad. I've shown this technique to several people and they all agree that it does allow for a finer control - might want to try that. (It works somewhat better on laptop trackpads with the tip of the index finger but it does work with the iPod and your thumb).

    • the new click wheel looks a lot nicer and would probably solve that problem, but i have the old one.

      It will not solve your scrolling problem. If anything, it will make it worse, because the click wheel is oversensitive to finger motion when you are trying to rate a song on the fly... in particular it seems maddeningly predisposed to vary your rating by +/- 1 star when you lift your finger off the wheel.

      What the click wheel does solve compared to the 3G iPods is the poor feedback and usability of th

  • SlashBoing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by belgar ( 254293 )
    Mayhaps you could do everyone a favor, Taco, and just redirect the slashdot domains to BoingBoing, [boingboing.net] and save us having to check two different feeds every hour. :P

    Three of the top eight stories are from BoingBoing this AM. Geep. I'm all for wider dissemination of information, but come on...

  • look for it to show up elsewhere (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Chuck Bucket ( 142633 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:07AM (#10308519) Homepage Journal
    It's such a step forward in UI I expect to see it other places soon. the move to put the play/fwd/etc buttons on the wheel just adds to the functionality. I think it would work very well on cellphones, or pdas. it's a brilliant design.

    CP#$B

  • Next up... (Score:2, Funny)

    by ZipR ( 584654 )
    The true story behind the the Ipod's headphone jack.
  • When scrolling with my third-generation iPod, it won't move for a good distance, and then suddenly it scrolls by two, and then normally to the third and fourth items. Anyone else have this problem?
  • They had a touch sensitive face, and predate the Ipod a bit..

    Not quite the same thing, but similar capacitive detection technology.

  • A closer look at iPod design (Score:5, Informative)

    by line-bundle ( 235965 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:31AM (#10308758) Homepage Journal
    This links give a better idea of apple's ipod design.

    Electronics Design Chain [designchain.com]

  • Lets all just do the enormously satisfying deed of pissing off the politically correct crowd, and call it clitoris, as it was meant to be called.

    And before you ask "WTF", let me explain.

    Over here, the word for "mouse" is also a slang word for pussy. So what do you call the slightly protruding feature that you twiddle with you finger? ;-)

  • Long lists (Score:5, Insightful)

    by slim ( 1652 ) <john&hartnup,net> on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:49AM (#10308970) Homepage
    The scroll wheel is a clever big of engineering alright, and it's a good way to quickly navigate medium sized lists -- maybe three or four screenfuls of choices.

    However, the iPod UI designers seemed to take this as an excuse to present you with enormous lists to scroll through with the wheel. My MP3 collection is modest by the standards of most iPod owners (I've not filled 20GB yet) -- but "browse by artist" gives me a list of 209. Scrolling to somewhere near the beginning is OK. Scrolling to somewhere near the end is OK (because you can scroll right to the end, then back). Scrolling to somewhere around the middle of the alphabet is a real pain.

    All they needed to do was make it heirarchical --

    "Artists -> (easy scroll) -> S -> (easy scroll) -> Smiths" ... would be quicker and easier than ...

    "Artists -> (difficult scroll) -> Smiths

  • Not the mechanical one, though (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hacksoncode ( 239847 ) on Tuesday September 21, 2004 @10:58AM (#10309038)
    There's one factual error in the article. Synaptics didn't design or manufacture the mechanical scroll wheel on the gen1 iPods.
  • I wonder if I am the only one who, holding his 2G iPod in one and and browsing Slashdot and actually RTFA, tut-tutted and felt the need to post a correction to the glaring error in this article. Clearly our correspondent is not as au fait with the iPod as he might appear to be...

    Quoth the article:

    "As you can see in the image to the right, the scrollwheels from the second- and third-generation iPods keep that radical-looking design, and you can see where the four touch-sensitive buttons line the area betwe

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