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Handhelds Portables Upgrades Hardware

GPS and Portability? 43

Posted by Cliff from the universal-data-transferability dept.
curious george asks: "I've always loved knowing exactly where I am in the world and it's becoming easier with the mainstream application of GPS receivers and other integrated technologies available on the consumer and prosumer market. However, finding those awesome accessories that seamlessly integrate with the laptop, mobile phone, or PDA are incredibly difficult. Does Slashdot know of any gadgets that can add the GPS capabilities found in most new vehicles to the mobile geek? Infrared, Bluetooth, USB, and other methods are abound, but what about compatibility between the Mac, Windows, Linux, and Symbian operating systems?"
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GPS and Portability? More

GPS and Portability?

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  • Low-cost Deluo USB/Serial GPS... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Dr.Dubious DDQ ( 11968 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @09:48PM (#9786182) Homepage

    I've got a Deluo USB GPS [deluoelectronics.com] that works great on my Linux box. It's effectively a serial GPS, with a USB/Serial adapter (supported in Linux) built in. My wife has borrowed it and used it on her Mac OSX box as well, and of course, I ASSUME it works in windows since it comes with a disk of windows drivers and software.

    I see they make a Bluetooth GPS now, too. If it works as well as the USB one does, I'd consider it...

  • I agree that bluetooth is the way to go. Bluetooth GPS receivers are pricey for what they do in comparison to other hand held models, but it's worth it for the portability. Just be sure to review those settings on your bluetooth deivces.

  • I can't make out exactly what you are looking for (Score:5, Informative)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @10:37PM (#9786438) Homepage Journal
    and I work developing mobile GPS enabled applications.

    I'll take a stab at what I think you are looking for, but you're asking a question that is way too general. It's like walking into a group of geeks and saying "tell me about this computer stuff".

    Pretty much all GPS's put out NMEA strings (or in some cases they can be configured for their own proprietary language in addition) on RS-232. In cases where there is no serial port (e.g. a CF card) a serial port is 'added' to you system when you insert the card. This "everything is data coming from a serial port" makes life easy for software developers. NMEA strings/RS-232/4800 bad is the standard, which I think comes from the marine industries (NMEA = National Marine Electronics Association -- they make sure your GPS can talk to your fish finder). This pretty much covers basic GPS functionality (getting heading, position, satellite status). Different manufacturers have their own protocols for advanced functions like waypoint transfers etc.

    I've never heard of a USB based GPS; there's no reason it couldn't be done, but there is no reason it needs to be done, at least until RS-232 goes the way of the dinosaur. It's even possible to power the GPS unit parasitically off a laptop RS-232; Delorme used to bundle a puck shaped unit that did exactly that with their street mapping software.

    A word of advice by the way; as somebody who has tested various vehicle mounts and software, I strongly recommend against using them while driving, even if you tell yourself you are just going to glance at the thing now and then to make sure it is working.

    There are bluetooth GPS units. In theory they're great but we've found that the pairing is somewhat flaky. In any cases, supposing the problems we've had with the BT units are an anamoly, I'd say we haven't really found a reason to use them other than their cool factor, which is hardly justified by the price differential and the fact they just don't work 100% reliably. We stick with either CF card format GPS, PDAs with integrated GPS, or if we have a fancy survey grade device good old RS-232.

    The only other thing I've run into other than RS-232, CF slots, and bluetooth are ultra cheap OEM units about the size of a quarter that output NMEA on a single TTL line (0-5v). This can be plugged into a laptop RS-232 and it will work OK, but PDAs will often fail to read them, because RS-232 requires both positive and negative relative to ground (I dont' recall, I think it's somethign like +/- 24v). Robotics folks will be familiar with this TTL-to-RS-232 interfacing problem. In any case, when you run into some kind of OEM unit with integrated GPS, and you can't read it with a PDA, chances are you're talking to one of these beasties.

    WRT devcies, Garmin has palmOS device that looks cool, and there's an outfit called Mitac that has a device called the Mio that has a very slick PocketPC with integrated GPS. The Mio is very comparable in size and styling to current generation iPaqs. We've been testing the Mio the last few days, and my take is that while the screen is excellent for indoor use, like many such devices it is very hard to read in the sunlight. It's got fairly slick looking software, but we havent' used it for real, so YMMV.

    If you are going for toy value, I'd probably look at a Mio. If you are going for GPS to save your life, then a high quality, regular handheld GPS is you r best bet. If you are going for cost effective data collection, go for a PocketPC unit with a CF slot for the GPS and a SD slot for a backup memory card. If you are going for mission critical data collection, a ruggedized survey grade unit like those sold by Trimble is what you are looking for.

    Don't even get me started on software. There's really so much to talk about there's nothing to say unless you're a bit more specific about what you want to know. Are we alking surveying (as in civil engineering)? Finding the nearest Indian restaurant? Geocaching? Work tracking?

    • As some one else has posted, there are a number of GPSs with USB interfaces.

      But RS-232 should give up and die. If you have exactly two devices that are 232 and you connect them once and leave it alone it is great. But given how lax the spec is - or perhaps how lax all the implementaions are - if you have any more then two devices, you're screwed. You need an exponental number of cables and/or a drawer full of gender changers, null modem adapters, and some goat blood to get things working.

      Even if you get t

    • Um rs-232 is simple but all laptops now sold don't have a serial port, and the bulk of desktop computers are also not coming with a Serial port.

      usb to serial doesn't always work either.
    • because RS-232 requires both positive and negative relative to ground ... somethign like +/- 24v

      I thought that the old official spec was +/- 18v or more up to 24v. RS-232 is one of the more abused specs. Since the first PC clone the unofficial spec has been +/- 12v, as that is all the power supply provides. More recently the unofficial spec has been +/- 8v. Now most devices will accept +/- 5v. As you mentioned some devices will even work with TTL levels.

      TTL to RS-232 converstion is pretty easy. If you ar
    • I'm a steady "toy" GPS user, using a Bluetooth Globalsat. Here's what I personally like the bluetooth for: In the car, while driving, with PocketPC software that does routing and voice prompts. I almost NEVER look at the screen while driving. iGuidance is my software (great for driving, absolutely HORRIBLE at anything else, I also have Microsoft Streets&Trips installed, which is good for walking around urban areas, and someday I plan to install specialized hiking software as well), and it's saved me

  • Serial is fine (Score:5, Interesting)

    by m_chan ( 95943 ) on Friday July 23, 2004 @10:52PM (#9786567) Homepage
    Bluetooth is pretty nifty, but it can be hard to get the compatibility you are looking for. Indeed, I am typing this post on my laptop running Fedora Core 2 over a bluetooth connection using GPRS through a mobile phone. However, serial ports and serial cables are reliable, prevalant, and are your best shot at compatibility. A GPS connection is not going to move (relatively) much data over whatever interface you choose. Serial is easy.

    I recently received a Garmin Rino 130 [garmin.com] as a present. It's pretty nifty. It's hand-held, with a built-in digital compass along with the GPS, and it has a built-in FRS/GMRS radio. Something like 54MB of RAM for maps. There's plenty more stuff in there that I haven't even scratched yet.

    I don't really have much recent experience with GPS equipment, but within 15 minutes I had it talking via its included serial cable to my laptop via NMEA protocol, and started plotting my location on freely-downloadable maps with the awesome GPSDrive [gpsdrive.de] software.

    The process was as easy and about as seamless as I could have imagined for such stuff.

  • BU-303 works with Debian (Score:3, Informative)

    by patelbhavesh ( 735074 ) on Saturday July 24, 2004 @12:30AM (#9787040) Homepage
    I have the generic model BU303 USB GPS receiver which you can buy from ebay for around 40 - 60 bucks.The guy ships from hong kong.
    It readily works with my debian box.
    The mapping software available for GNU/Linux is non existent.I know http://www.gpsdrive.cc/index.shtml(GPS drive) is available but it does not have features like auto-routing/street -level maps which are absolutely essential for driving.

    • Every time I see someone complain about not having auto-routing I feel older.

      "Kids today...when I was YOUR age, you whippersnapper, we didn't have these newfangled auto-route thingamajiggers to tell us where to go! We had to learn to READ maps! Chiseled on clay tablets! In Cuneiform! Uphill! In the snow!....and we were THANKFUL for it!"

      Seriously though - GPSDrive can import maps at various resolutions (including "street level" 1:2500 or so) from Expedia already, and of course you can generate your ow

    • For mapping software, try XASTIR. Although primarily designed for ham radio operaters running APRS (Automatic Position Reporting System), it does a decent job tracking your position, and supports tiger maps (street level). Most linux distros have it in their ham radio section. The only issue is it will not tell you how to get to your destination, but such functionality would be great to have someone contribute.

  • Interfaces - Serial, USB, Bluetooth (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dr.Dubious DDQ ( 11968 ) on Saturday July 24, 2004 @12:54AM (#9787156) Homepage

    Incidentally, as far as I can tell so far ALL of Serial, USB, and Bluetooth are "Serial" interfaces: The USB-based GPS units that I've actually looked at (not that there have been many) seem to be Serial units with a Serial-USB adapter integrated into it, and the Bluetooth units seem to work similarly (basically giving you a "wireless serial port"), so for the most part, it should really only be a question of your platform's support for the appropriate type of "serial" adapter. In the case of my Deluo, it's the "USB Prolific 2303 Single Port Serial Driver" in Linux.

    From there, whatever software you're using just gets pointed at the "serial port" (/dev/ttyS0, /dev/ttyUSB0, etc.) that the serial, USB, or bluetooth driver makes available and away you go. Or at least, that's how it SHOULD work.

    Anybody know where the CompactFlash GPS would show up in the system if I were to, for example, plug it into my linux laptop with a CompactFlash PCMCIA adapter? I've always wondered about that.

  • Nextel has been touting GPS features built into some of its latest phone handsets. You might look at those. I'm not sure whether they can connect to PC mapping software like a standalone GPS handset or not.
    • 'gps features' may or may not mean real gps functionality. with clever tricks(would constitute as hacks..) the networks can be used to determine pretty well where the phone itself is. it's quite far fetched to hope that the devices could be easily be convinced to tell the coords away though(with the right api's in java though why not).

      there's been real gps enabled phones for years as well(from benefon, rebranded as some other phones lately iirc as well).

    • Nextel has been touting GPS features built into some of its latest phone handsets. You might look at those. I'm not sure whether they can connect to PC mapping software like a standalone GPS handset or not.

      Meh. I have a Nextel i58sr with GPS. It's absolutely useless. First the GPS antenna is on the BACK of the phone, so you have to hold it face down with a clear view of the sky. Second, it takes like a minute and a half to get a fix. And third, all the out-of-the-box GPS function does is provide a lat-lon

    • Yes, it outputs standard NMEA 4800 baud. Purchase a serial cable for your handset to get the data out.

      Someone said that they put the GPS antenna on the back. Perhaps on older units, I don't know. On current and future units it's a helical antenna in the iDen antenna's base.

      They don't get their fix from the cell network (though they can get some location "help" from them) - they do a warm start every time you turn them (the GPS feature) on, which is why it takes 1-2 minutes to get a fix.

      As someone else

  • I have a G4 iBook, and wanted GPS and mapping. I first got Route 66 mapping software with US and Canada maps. I then, after a bit of searching, got a Rayming TripNav TN-200 - USB GPS receiver (at mightygps.com). This is just a small, usb-powered module.

    After a bit of configuring, it works, and works well.

    • So does this thing show up as a /dev/tty.something son OSX so that us old unix types can write software that uses it? I've been using a keyspan to talk to serial devices which is nice as they just appear as /dev/tty.USA... Just open and read.
  • While we're on the subject, cam someone suggest a way to transmit/receive GPS locations to remote site? Think vehicle tracking or something similar.

    As I'm driving around, I want to collect GPS points of my location and transmit them in some way back to my home/office where I store them in a database.

    Any creative ideas on how this can be best accomplished?
    • You could have a look at APRS [navy.mil]. Although many APRS projects are intended to work with Amateur Radio equipment, I think it isn't too difficult to adapt some of them to talk to your cellphone, sending and receiving GPS coordinates by SMS or email.
    • I am looking at making such a system. Two methods that have been considerd are using a standard mobile phone and using a radio such as CB. Progress so far is slow, but looks promising.
    • I need to do more searching than I can do at work right now - but I am sure this exists for the trucking/logistics industry already. I am 90% positive I've seen ads and such for this allowing companies to track the position of their vehicles, and I'm 50% certain I saw posts somewhere about rental car industries tracking their customers' driving (and fining them for going out-of-state, etc.).
  • does GPS Drive only download expedia maps on the fly? or is there a way that I can get maps for say British Columbia before I go driving all over the place?

    • Expedia is currently the only "Automatic" download option in GPSDrive (there used to be an option to grab USGS Topo maps from "Topozone", but they complained so it's been removed - They weren't QUITE in the right projection for GPSDrive anyway). GPSDrive can work with any map image that is the right size and projection though.

      I haven't managed to figure out what projection the "street" maps are in (someone on the mailing list opined that they thought it was a "Miller" projection, but nobody who knew for s

  • Roadmap [digitalomaha.net] runs on my Zaurus, that I mount on the dashboard when I drive (Zaurus also plays music through the car's speakers). It uses gpsd, and everything works with my old Garmin GPS III, or any GPS that produces NMEA strings.

  • An Off the Shelf Solution (Score:2, Informative)

    by XScB ( 240898 )
    Get a Nokia Mobile phone with built in GPS.
    http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,4879,53751,00.h tml

    Also doubles as a Mobile Phone.
  • The Garmin iQue [garmin.com] mates a GPS with Garmin's mapping and routing software with a Palm PDA. There's now a slightly cheaper 3200 model with a smaller screen (I'd suggest the 3600).

    Cheap, too, at ~US$450, compared to what you'd have to pay to assemble this yourself.

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