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HP Bug Portables Hardware

HP Recall on 900,000 Notebooks 224

Posted by CmdrTaco from the thats-a-lotta-laptops dept.
phycoman writes "900,000 HP and Compaq laptops have potential memory issues and are being recalled. The RAM chips from four manufacturers can possibly lead to system corruption and lockups. The affected notebooks are Compaq Evo Notebook N610c, Compaq Evo Notebook N610v, Compaq Evo Notebook N620c, Compaq Evo Notebook N800c, Compaq Evo Notebook N800v, Compaq Evo Notebook N800w, Compaq Evo Notebook N1000c, Compaq Evo Notebook N1000v, Compaq Presario 1500, Compaq Presario 2800, Compaq Presario x1000, Compaq Presario x1200, HP Compaq Business Notebook nx7000 and HP Pavilion zt3000. As a result, HP has created a website whick allows users to download a program to test for faulty RAM chips."
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HP Recall on 900,000 Notebooks More

HP Recall on 900,000 Notebooks

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  • HP (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:00AM (#9542684) Homepage Journal
    I dislike HP products. We have a scanner, a camera and some other doo-dads at the office, and they all use HP technology. The problem? HP installs a crapflood of memory resident programs to handle even the most mundane tasks that could easily be handled at runtime. I would never personally buy something from HP because of their strange software policy. This is essentially Darwin in effect, folks. Nothing to see here, move along. :-)

    • Re:HP (Score:4, Interesting)

      by JPriest ( 547211 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:07AM (#9542744) Homepage
      P installs a crapflood of memory resident programs to handle even the most mundane tasks

      Funny you mention that, a just threw a default install of XP Pro on an old 450MHz AMD box next to me. I was amazed to see on boot it used only 56 megs of RAM. Having mostly used OEM versions, I always figured XP was more bloated than that.

    • The only HP product I had installed on my system was a HP 935 digital camera and it installed no less than 3 TSRs and was gobbling up a total of around 32 megs of ram
      • Well, for some cameras, at least, you don't need to install anything. I have an HP Photosmart C20 and all I have to do is pop the chip into the PCMCIA holder and mount /dev/hde1. Of course, it's an old camera and they may have worsened it.

        For scanners, OTOH, the situation is terrible. I have an HP3570 and will not recommend to anyone buying an HP scanner. The software is buggy, slow, bloated, has no Linux driver, has no scripting capability, is hard to use, and that's the most positive review I can make of

        • Agreed (Score:3, Informative)

          by mfh ( 56 )
          I agree. My Fuji FinePix A205 was really cheap, for a Fuji (like about $200 CAD), and I just plug it in and XP recognizes it as a removable disk. I think cameras don't need fancy software for pulling images down, and anything extra is a waste of time. Let software like Photoshop, ACDSEE and others be the progs for image manipulation. I think camera mfctrs should stick with what they know, and leave the other stuff alone. Oh and we bought a nice 256meg RAM for this camera, for under $90 CAD at Costco. Prett
      • What does the typical XP user do when they buy a new scanner / camera / printer / mouse / keyboard / whatever? Don't they work right away in almost all cases after you plug it in and possibly reboot the machine? Is there any way to convince the public to at least try it before they stick the CD that came with it in their machine?
    • Aargh, don't mention them to me. Just had to build half-a-dozen HP-Compaq Business Desktop DX2000s for my employers. The driver disks don't work when you put a clean copy of Windows XP Pro on them, you actually cant install the drivers from within windows, you have to do it using the system restore disk, which proceeded to nuke my custom partitioning in favour of a single enormous NTFS partition.

      And the network driver for their implemention of the Intel Pro 100/ VM comes out at 67mb.. and the standard Mi

      • Re:HP - aargh (Score:3, Informative)

        by wolrahnaes ( 632574 )
        Just for a counterpoint:

        Compaq Presario R3000T notebook

        Did a fresh install of XP Pro the day after getting it, installed drivers from the included CD. Everything works fine

        I have since replaced the 802.11g drivers with upgraded ones from Broadcom (needed LEAP support) and installed newer ATI Catalysts using DriverHeaven's mobile mod tool.

        I agree that their drivers are bloated, but mine were easily replaceable.

    • Re:HP (Score:3, Interesting)

      by FooAtWFU ( 699187 )
      Well, I have a printer/scanner/copier device. The default software is bloated and slow, but remarkably pretty and nice... there is also nondefault software available on the CD (the WIA scanning wizard thingy) and I have killed the resident-in-memory junk. It wasn't hard.
      The equipment works wonderfully with Linux, as well.

      I also ordered a HP ProLiant DL145 server, dual Opterons (1.8Ghz each), 2 gigs of RAM... pretty pretty
      Its initial estimated ship date was late May. They now tell me it should arrive by mid-

    • Re:HP (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Realistic_Dragon ( 655151 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @11:40AM (#9543615) Homepage
      Just like the real player thing*, it seems that Linux users get the better deal on drivers and crapware.

      HP Linux drivers (for the printers at least, I havent used the camera ones) are solid, HP backed, support things like the card readers and have no crapware attached.

      There seem to be quite a few cases where Linux drivers and software are actually _better_ than the Windows versions.

      *Real player for UNIX is a pretty decent piece of software.

    • Re:HP (Score:2, Informative)

      by DavidD_CA ( 750156 )
      I know exactly what you're talking about.

      You should check out their business-class desktop line, Evo. They come with hardly any pre-installed crap. We just got one in the other day and the only thing running that I can recall was the extra-keys-on-the-keyboard driver which was easily removed from startup.

      The Pavillion line, meant for consumers, definitely is pre-loaded with crap software.

      Of course, you can also buy hardware from HP without an OS installed.

    • Yesterday I tried to uninstall HP printer software from a Windows XP installation, and it caused a blue screen crash. After that the Windows XP installation was completely unusable.

      However, I have a solution: Carly Fiorina must go!

  • Channelling Nelson (Score:5, Funny)

    by philoticjane ( 771475 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:02AM (#9542700)
    /me points at HP

    HA ha... /me looks at apple.com... scrolls to bottom... "Extended iBook Logic Board..."

    Oh. Damn.

  • It can't be too bad (Score:2, Interesting)

    by JPriest ( 547211 )
    If they managed to get a million laptops out the door before they noticed the problem, then it can't be that severe. It might set them back a few dimes though.
    • From their article:

      "HP's replacement program will allow a customer to receive a small kit, containing a screwdriver as well as instructions for the customer on how to replace the faulty DRAM modules, which may include 128MB, 256MB, and 512MB versions. The customer can then ship the DRAM to HP using a return envelope and receive a new module for free."

      Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking its not a few dimes, but maybe $10.00 to $15.00 per customer, figuring they can get DRAMM wholesale at a greatl
    • If they managed to get a million laptops out the door before they noticed the problem, then it can't be that severe. It might set them back a few dimes though.

      If you're running the world's most popular yet unstable OS, you're bound to write off unexplained glitches to the software. In this way, I'll wager many a duff memory component has been overlooked. Running a proper, more stable OS often exposes such problems.

      Moderators go ahead and do your worst! Troll, Flamebait and Overrated. It's the truth, though

  • Say what you will but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:04AM (#9542718)
    It's nice to see a company admitting there is a problem AND fixing it.

    Wouldn't suprise me if someone was threatning to blow the whistle though...

    • Sorry, no. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Kingfox ( 149377 ) * on Sunday June 27, 2004 @01:01PM (#9544347) Homepage Journal
      My employer purchased a few hundred of these laptops. We've been complaining to them and dropping evidence on their laps since the fall of 2002 that something was wrong. Now, nearly two years later, they finally admit that there's a problem. It's nice to see a company admitting that there is a problem and fixing it, it would have been nice to see a company admitting that there is a problem and fixing it in a timely fashion.

      These aren't laptops that they sold to consumers a few months ago. These are models that consumers have been suffering with for years, and being told that there is no problem.
    • "Wouldn't suprise me if someone was threatning to blow the whistle though..."

      Like the 900,000 people that'd never buy HP products again?

  • HP= bad (Score:4, Interesting)

    by spacerodent ( 790183 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:04AM (#9542721)
    Every time I've bought an HP product I've regreted it. I even got one of their dvd burners for a mere $99 year before last (when they were ~$300 normally) and then when it broke only 3 weeks after I bought it they said it wasn't covered under warrenty. They claimed that it was covered for 1 year or until they decide the product is obsolete and no longer will be supported. Even though i'd just bought it they had decided it was too long to support any longer dispite the fact that it was still on store shelves. Then last year I got a HP 935 digital camera as a gift. It was a good little camera except for one thing. The batteries only lasted about 2-3 picutres at a time. You could wait for the amperage to build back up between sets of 2-3 pictures (usually a few minutes) but thats totally unacceptable to most people. Terrible designs and business decisions like these have destroyed any support I had left for HP. I know it's HP-Compaq now but hell would freeze over before I buy anything off them.

    • Re:HP= bad (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rasteroid ( 264986 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:39AM (#9543041)
      I can't believe this, a company is proactive in issuing a product recall and all you can do is think about all your bad experiences that you've had in the past? It seems to me like the problems you list are not uncommon across almost every company selling tech products across the industry. In any case, your post is quite irrelevant, because it appears that the problem regarding the memory is an industry-wide problem, not an HP-specific one.

      I take it as a good thing that HP is first to recall such a large volume of shipped products, whereas look what their main competitors in the laptop segment are up to - Dell is still "evaluating" and I've no idea what IBM is up to.

      It's a shame that the recall isn't issued by the memory/chipset manufacturers themselves, since they are primarily responsible for the flaw, even though laptop vendors in general are also somewhat responsible for letting the flaw go unnoticed for so long.

      HP doesn't have a perfect track record, but give credit where credit is due. A company that issues a comprehensive product recall, despite it being an "industry-wide problem" and despite it probably being something relatively minor/obscure (which is why it escaped detection for so long), is one that to me cares more for their products than what you've described above.

      I myself am primarily a Dell customer (which isn't saying much), but I give HP the edge in being more proactive in this particular case. For all you know, they could have just shrugged their shoulders and pointed fingers at the memory/chipset manufacturers.

      Regarding monetary losses, I'm sure there is some sort of sharing of cost-of-replacement between the various companies responsible for this product recall.

    • Possitive experiences (Score:3, Informative)

      by mst76 ( 629405 )
      Since this seems to be turning into a HP bashfest, let me add some positive experiences. I've personally bought two HP products (both a few years ago), an old i8100 CD-RW that I never had problems with (just a bit slow), and an ancient LaserJet III (pre-owned I don't know how many times, still working like a champ). Maybe these older products were from better times?

      My recent experiences aren't bad either. Our company desktops are HP Compaq D330 desktops (P4 2ghz), that are cheap but pretty well designed.

    • Re:HP= bad (Score:4, Interesting)

      by macrom ( 537566 ) <macrom75@hotmail.com> on Sunday June 27, 2004 @11:12AM (#9543329) Homepage
      I'm one for one with my HP/Compaq experiences. At a past job, I had a series of Evos, first the N600c, then the N620c (or was it the 610?). The first batch of notebooks were pretty good, but once they upgraded us to the 620's a year later, all hell broke loose. We (meaning most of the 20-odd developers) all had USB issues with external drives, blue screens, lockups, etc. I personally had my RAM modules replaces 2 or 3 times, along with my system board in the same amount. Other minor problems existed and all Compaq would do under the corporate warranty agreement was throw replacement parts at the problem. It's finally good to see they are starting to acknowledge SOMETHING is wrong, though I have a feeling that it's more than the 3rd-party memory they're blaming it on.

      Now, when I lost my job back in November, I searched around for a good, solid laptop and settled on the ZT3000, which I customized through HP's shopping site. I had a few problems with blue screens when I installed 3rd party RAM (and these problems were well "documented" and discussed on x1000formus [x1000forums.com]. Swaping the memory around the 2 slots fixed the problem. Otherwise, this laptop has been the best machine I've ever owned. It's decently fast for compiling code in Visual Studio .NET, it has a gig of RAM, a WUXGA screen, a nice keyboard, it's thin, light and gets good battery life. I worked a contract for a few months where a set of office mates had these machines (one had the x1000) and they seemed to like the laptops as much as myself. I will freely admit that HP and Compaq have a bit of a reputation in the computer industry, but so far these machines seem to be pretty solid.

      Anyhow, that's my story for the HP/Compaq quality debate!

    • Re:HP= bad (Score:3, Informative)

      by csirac ( 574795 )
      I even got one of their dvd burners for a mere $99 year before last (when they were ~$300 normally) and then when it broke only 3 weeks after I bought it they said it wasn't covered under warrenty.

      That's not entirely unique to HP. Some HDD manufacturers seem to go by manufacture date too. It's not always the manufacturer's fault that some store somewhere can't sell old stock. Besides, if that were the case, can't you deal with the store instead of HP? The shop I used to work at would replace it for you at
      • Their lab test equipment is now called "Agilent," an entirely separate company. They seem to be doing much better than HP is, except for the fact that they are going Windows on the new logic analyzers -- I liked HPUX better.
        • Their lab test equipment is now called "Agilent," an entirely separate company.

          I didnt' know that. Explains why our new DSOs are Agilent then. Very good machines they are too. We've got a Marconi network analyser but it's a right pain to use...
    • Say what you want about their other products, but HP printers by far are the highest quality from all my experience with them.

      My HP LaserJet 4L is 11 years old and despite the trend of most hardware failing or having to be upgraded after 3 years, it continues operating at the same quality level as the day it was first turned on.

      It's a shame they spun off Agilent for their digital oscilliscopes and measurement instruments. These are another high quality product HP used to make.
      • Say what you want about their other products, but HP printers by far are the highest quality from all my experience with them.

        Their drivers do have the absolute best HPPCL5 compatibility in the market.

    • Re:HP= bad (Score:2, Insightful)

      by David Horn ( 772985 )
      Ah, you ought to live in the UK. Here everything has to come with at least a one year manufacturer's warranty (they CAN'T get out of that) and after that the shop is responsible for the product for a further 5 years. I didn't know about the 5 years bit till I read the Trading Standards website.

    • Re:HP= bad (Score:2, Informative)

      by Karma Star ( 549944 )
      The batteries only lasted about 2-3 picutres at a time

      Well, if you're using alkaline batteries, that will happen with any digital camera. You should be using NiMH batteries instead...
      • Nooo.... I use Alkaline batteries in my Canon A70 and they last for dozens of pictures. Usually one set is good for a couple days of shooting pictures, and I always use the LCD.

        Having alkaline batteries last for only 2-3 pictures would be a sign of a definite problem, IMHO.

  • Missed it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Papa Legba ( 192550 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:05AM (#9542726)
    Sometimes a guy lucks out. I bought a 1500 not to long ago. I got it with the minimum amount of RAM in it. I wanted a gig of RAM but HP wanted almost $700 for that upgrade. I decided that upgrading the screen was far more important as I could not alter that myself later at a cheap price.

    As soon as I got the laptop I orderd a gig of third party RAM from an online vendor, total cost less than $200. Installed it right away and now I don't have this problem and never have had it.

    Moral of the story: Sometime it pays to be a cheap bastard.

    • Re:Missed it (Score:5, Interesting)

      by anticypher ( 48312 ) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <rehpycitna>> on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:33AM (#9542974) Homepage
      So you take your original HP 128 Meg sodimm card, mail it back to them, get a new one, and a 32Mbyte USB flash memory key with an HP logo on it for the cost of postage.

      It pays to be a cheap bastard, but one should be a greedy cheap bastard whenever possible.

      the AC

      • Re:Missed it (Score:4, Insightful)

        by vijaya_chandra ( 618284 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:40AM (#9543049)
        So you take your original HP 128 Meg sodimm card, mail it back to them, get a new one, and a 32Mbyte USB flash memory key with an HP logo on it for the cost of postage.

        A really greedy cheap bastard would have sold it as soon as the card was out of the box
        • Neh, to be a good, greedy, cheap, bastard, you would wait until you had the replacement RAM and the USB key, and then sold both.

          Not that 32Mbyte flash keys are worth much these days, lots of companies at CeBit this year were handing them out.

          the AC

  • Memory replacement, not recall (Score:5, Informative)

    by Covener ( 32114 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:06AM (#9542737)
    Laptops aren't being recalled, memory is. Writeup is too sensationalized
    • If you open up the laptop to replace the RAM yourself don't you void the warranty?

    • Re:Memory replacement, not recall (Score:4, Informative)

      by crow ( 16139 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:16AM (#9542817) Homepage Journal
      Just like an automotive recall, there's one part that's bad, and they ask you to bring it in to be replaced at their cost (parts and labor). I once had a recall on my car to replace the radiator cap. They mailed me the cap and said to take it to a dealer if I didn't want to swap it myself (apparently the original cap wouldn't release pressure if it overheated).

      A recall doesn't mean they'll replace the whole thing, just the bad part. This is a recall.

    • HP=Pinto (Score:5, Funny)

      by CaptainFrito ( 599630 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:49AM (#9543125)
      "Laptops aren't being recalled, memory is. Writeup is too sensationalized"

      "Ford Pintos aren't being recalled, gas taks are. Writeup is too sensationalized"

      Uh-huh.

      • "Laptops aren't being recalled, memory is. Writeup is too sensationalized"

        "Ford Pintos aren't being recalled, gas taks are. Writeup is too sensationalized"

        Uh-huh.

        It's a laptop recall with no laptops being sent for service? Novel.
        • Yeah, why fix it yourself when you can get your customer to do it:

          Tech Support Guy speaking to proud HP laptop owner: "Sure, lady, all you have to do is follow these fiften simple steps, just go tou our website...oh yeah, sorry, forgot your computer is horked...right... Okay I' ll talk you through it. Just get a #1 philips screwdriver -- what's that? I'm sorry?!? what do you mean, 'is #1 is the philips the one with the yellow handle?!? How am I suppos--- never mind, send it back, we'll take care of it an

    • Yeah and people have to send the RAM in first. Many people cannot afford to be without their laptops while they wait for HP to process their returned RAM. Depending on which model laptop, the laptop might still boot with the onboard RAM, but with Windows XP the laptop is useless until the new RAM arrives.

  • Intel chipset to fault? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:08AM (#9542757)
    Hard to believe that the memory makers who hold 70% of the world market fail to produce their stuff to specs.

    Looks more like a flaw with the Intel chipsets in those notebooks, but that would be much more expensive to replace.

    If you're affected, check whether the new RAM modules aren't slower than the ones you're replacing.
    • The problem may not be the memory chips per-se but the configuation information. Modern memory modules have a small non-volatile serial configuration memory that tells the BIOS which CAS/RAS/Tpd/Trd/etc settings to use. If any of these settings are wrong you are likely to get memory corruption. I'd wager this is more likely to be the problem.
      • Having read the article properly this time, it would appear to be a memory chip problem. These chips would probably be fine in a PC since Self Refresh is a power saving feature that is n't used in desktop PC's.

        All DRAM needs refresh cycles in order to top up the capacitor charges, normally every 64ms. These refresh cycles are generated by the memory controller. SDRAM introduced 'Self Refresh' in which the memory chip would refresh for keeping the memory contents whilst being in a power-down mode.

        From th

  • Uh oh... (Score:2, Funny)

    by sploo22 ( 748838 )
    The testing program from HP seems to be Windows-only. Oh well, I'll just run it under Bochs.
  • Let's see how long it takes for the other manufacturers to get on the bandwagon. Especially Toshiba. They only use Samsung memory.

    (that may have been what's been causing those random lockups on my laptop. Now I know...)

  • free 32MB flash drive (Score:5, Interesting)

    by justforaday ( 560408 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:14AM (#9542804)
    I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the free 32MB flash drive you get for their screwup.

    HP will provide one free 32-megabyte USB Flash Device for each notebook identified as having affected memory module(s). To receive this incentive, customers must complete all of the following steps for each notebook:

    Order the replacement memory module(s) through this Web site.

    Replace the affected memory module(s) without the assistance of a service partner or HP.

    Return the affected memory module(s) as directed.

    I get the feeling there're going to be a lot of flash drive RAIDs being made out of these...

  • Downtime anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:16AM (#9542825)
    "HP's replacement program will allow a customer to receive a small kit, containing a screwdriver as well as instructions for the customer on how to replace the faulty DRAM modules, which may include 128MB, 256MB, and 512MB versions. The customer can then ship the DRAM to HP using a return envelope and receive a new module for free."

    Sooo... if I read that right (keying in on the last phrase) 900,000 laptops are supposed to go without any memory while the old memory gets shipped back, the order processed (assuming they have 1-2 million proper mem modules already on-hand) and the new memory then being shipped back. That's a ton of culmulative downtime- Ouch!

  • Not the real HP anymore (Score:5, Interesting)

    by uncadonna ( 85026 ) <mtobisNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:23AM (#9542883) Homepage Journal
    Everything I've encountered from HP in the last several years (certainly anything post-Carly) has been amazingly failure-prone. I've been foolish enough, on the strength of old habits and low prices, to buy a laser printer, and a desktop machine from them since then. Both failed very quickly. The institutional setting where I work has a departmental color laser, much higher end than I've ever purchased for myself. Its downtime approaches 50%; it has no less than three types of chronic problems (paper feed, intermittent connectors, and some peculiar software glitch than can be power cycled away). We are looking for a replacement and will not consider an HP machine. I paid out of pocket for a cheap USB lexmark laser in my office so I could get listings and get my work done.

    This may be a coincidence but I doubt it.

    I'm old enough to remember a time when HP products were ubiquitous in labs and scientists' offices. In those days they were paragons of good design and reliability.

    Folger's used to be a brand associated with gourmet coffee. Once the brand got bought out, it was used in a sort of goodwill mining operation to sell vile instant coffee crystals.

    This is the way of the publicly traded corporation with its short time horizons. A respected brand is just a resource to be cashed in.

    • HP still makes some decent printers, even if they're just repackaging someone else's print engine -- we have an HP5500 color printer that runs circles around a 2 year old Canon CLC5000, and several of our HP 8100 B&W printers have engine page counts in the millions with only consumables (fuser, toner, pickup rollers) that have needed replacement.

      I think they make enough money from printers that people working there from the "old" HP haven't been replaced by outsource-everthing MBAs who only care about

    • Re:Not the real HP anymore (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Foolhardy ( 664051 ) <csmith32&gmail,com> on Sunday June 27, 2004 @12:04PM (#9543844)
      I remember when HP used to represent quaility too. HP oscilliscopes, spectrum analyzers, calculators were sought after. There is old HP equipment still in use around here from 20+ years ago that still works great; pieces of equipment that have never had parts break.
      Of recent products: I have an HP48GX calc that is working beautifully. I have a cheapo deskjet printer that works OK; the ink prices are murder and a third party cartridge seems to have plugged some the heads causing streaks. It's still much better than the Epson color stylus 2 I had before. I also have a ZT1000 notebook computer, about 2 years old. I've had a few issues, but overall it is very stable.
      I agree that their quaility has gone down a great deal recently (with Carly+merger mostly).

      About companies that don't care about long-term reputation, only short-term profits: I worry that it is going that way too. Still, the implicit purpose of most corps is to make money for the investors.
      • ...the implicit purpose of most corps is to make money for the investors.

        Which is as it should be. But the marketplace is structured for short term returns, as if the main value added were commodities like wheat and steel.

        If that were otherwise (for instance, by imposing more capital gains tax for short-term holdings) companies wouldn't be as motivated to suck the value out of their intellectual and social capital to make a few cents this year and collapse in a worthless heap a few years from now.

    • Re:Not the real HP anymore (Score:4, Interesting)

      by woobieman29 ( 593880 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @04:16PM (#9545714)
      I would have to agree with parent poster. I have used HP products over the years (Have a ScanJet 4P and LaserJet 5 that have been years-long workhorses) but my recent dealings with them on a Pavilion notebook have forced me to swear off ever buying HP/Compaq again.

      The machine in question is a Pavilion N5190 that I bought in October of 2000 for ~$2500 US. Luckily I bought an extended warranty through the dealer when I purchased this thing, because it was in and out of the shop constantly for 2 new power supplies, a new motherboard, and other issues. Note that I have had over a dozen notebooks in my time, including IBM, Fujitsu, Toshiba and Dell and I have never had even 25% of the problems that I have had with this HP Pavilion. Thank goodness that the extended dealer warranty provided for a loaner, or I would have been really screwed. As soon as the extended warranty expired, the machine stopped booting again with what appears to be a power supply issue. Since it was out of warranty I decided to pop the case off to have a look, and I immediately noticed that the hard drive is prominently marked with a sticker that says "USED". I was (and still am) FURIOUS as this was supposed to be a new machine, and the hard disc had never been replaced. When I called HP for an explanation I got bounced around to the wrong departments for DAYS until I finally got a hold of someone in the "Quality Department". This person told me that it is common practice for HP/Compaq to use USED parts that have been tested as good in their new notebooks, and that this is mentioned in their warranty paperwork. I protested that 1) The verbage regarding used parts is buried in the fine print of the warranty terms which 2) a customer will never see until they have already purchased the machine. At this point, I am wondering how many other parts in this $2500 "new" laptop are really USED.

      Call me crazy but I think this is wrong. If I am going to buy a NEW notebook, it is my expectation that all of the parts are new. I can buy machines that are refurbished if I want to, and spend a lot less money for the same machine. If a machine is being sold with USED parts in it, I feel that this should be prominently marked on the external packaging.

      How do you feel about this, Slashdot?

  • Thanks for the head up (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TekZen ( 611640 )
    That may have been why my zt3000 locks up sometimes.

    Also of note, it is a Windows only test utility, and you sign up for the recall through the test utility. So, it is a Windows only recall. :(

    -Jackson

  • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • My Evo 600c works in linux fine, even the winmodem. You need to upgrade your BIOS however -- b/c even in windows it had issues with ACPI. Yeah you kind of need the fan to work so it doesn't melt. =)

      Check out:

      http://icculus.org/~mongoose/Compaq-Evo_N600c.html

      Yeah I should update it, but hell it's an old laptop now.

  • I don't mean to troll, but they really are. The only HP product I've ever bought was a Pavilion laptop, and it simply was one of the worst investements I've ever made.

    The thing shipped with a faulty keyboard and CPU fan, making me ship the thing back to HP several times. Each time they "fixed" the problem (and reformatted my hard drive), but a few weeks later the problems resurfaced.

    On top of that, the DVD/CD drive would only boot DOS-type CDs (i.e. Win98), not NT-type CDs like RH Linux and Win2k, so I

  • From HP's website: (Score:5, Funny)

    by ikea5 ( 608732 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:32AM (#9542963)
    Program Highlights: The Memory Module Replacement Program showcases HP's unique capabilities to detect, and identify complex issues, and globally execute customized replacement programs.

    Translate: "We shipped some faulty chips, which caused bluescreens, now we will send a screw driver to everyone on our list so they can replace it themself"

  • I have one of these, and I've never had a pro

  • Why never to buy from HP (Score:3, Interesting)

    by GreenPenInc ( 792018 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @10:40AM (#9543047)
    Wow, this comes right at the time when I'm buying my first laptop. Gather round and hear the sordid tale of their utter lack of customer service!

    The HP zt3000 model seemed to have the perfect balance of price and performance. I tried ordering one on their site, but since I didn't sign up simultaneously, it took me to a page where I couldn't check order status and I didn't get a confirmation email. So, I ordered my customized model over the phone the next day.

    Imagine my shock when I checked my confirmation email and found that the default configuration had been ordered instead -- $50 more expensive than my customized one, and less powerful to boot! I called back to correct it, and they said it wouldn't be a problem; they'd call *me* in 48 hours.

    48 hours and no phone call later, I called them back and was advised to cancel my order outright and place it again. I tried, but the screw-up order had placed a hold on the money, so I couldn't order again until it expired!

    At this point, their *original* mistake had cost me the better part of a week on a time-sensitive deal, so I figured I'd get them to pay for expedited shipping. Twice, I was told a supervisor would call me by such and such a time. When this failed to happen both times, I called again and requested to be put through to a supervisor. I told him what had happened and asked for free shipping so *they* could cover the mistake *they* made. And he wouldn't even give me that.

    So, to summarize, I made 13 phone calls, was told "don't call us, we'll call you" three times and it never happened, and they wouldn't even take action to correct *their* mistake which cost me all the time. At this point, I realized no laptop is worth all that crap.

    (Seems I've gotten a happy ending, though. I found a very comparable (slightly better) Dell Inspiron 8600 for slightly less, and by Googling I found a coupon for a not-insignificant 10% off! It'll arrive in a few weeks, and I can't wait to put Gentoo on it ;)
    • and by Googling I found a coupon for a not-insignificant 10% off

      Do you mean that you've got the laptop without the pre-installed Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition !?!

    • ... at any company. You can't really generalise the quality of customer service for companies as large as HP.

      Strange you had so much trouble with an automated web ordering system. I've always had great service from HP spare parts dispatch via both phone/fax and email, where no standard purchase order templates are required or used and are evidently processed by a human.

      Sucks you had to get a Dell. Personally I would have preffered the HP "engineering" (though neither actually make their own laptops [tuxmobil.org]).
  • And couldn't be happier with it, besides just a few small things. I had a toshiba before this, and it was just as problematic.

    The only thing I don't like about the HP (a ze4315) is that the case creaks when I open and close the screen, but thats just because its very tight, which I'd rather have than an easy to move screen.

    The first thing I did when I got it was max out the ram by taking out the old stuff, and install a brand new copy of WinXP pro (I get it free through my college), and I have never had a
  • I have a Compaq (HP) latop. The downloaded utility to identify the bad memory and order a replacement tells me I'm not using an HP laptop, so it won't work.

  • The last two home systems I've built were both unstable mutant time-sucking botch jobs until I replaced the vanilla, base-speed RAM with premium RAM one speed level higher than "necessary". Fixed everything.

    I may still bottom feed for price regularly but I've made it a rule to buy premium ram from now on.
  • I deal with a LOT of HP laptops, mainly 610cs at the moment, and I've had a lot of faulties recently - had three brand new ones DOA in a row a couple of weeks back

    For that matter, I also deal with a lot of HP/Compaq S7500 17" CRT monitors, and the failure rate on those is a bit on the silly side... but don't even get me started on the CRAP's (Compaq Advanced Port Replicator... they got the letters the wrong way around)

    To be fair though.. they do make good... um.. must be something... just give me a minut
  • Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e14' Line 1: Incorrect syntax near '='. /mmrp/includes/common.inc, line 108

  • In related news.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by commo1 ( 709770 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @11:16AM (#9543358)
    4,900,000 copies of Microsoft Windows software have potential memory leaking issues and are being kept on the marketplace. The Windows software from one manufacturer can possibly lead to system corruption, lockups and comprimised security of stored documents & personal information. The affected releases are: Longhorn (beta), all versions of XP, 2000, ME, 98SE, 98, 95OSR2, 95A, NT Workstation 4.0 & 3.X, Windows 3.x & Windows for Workgroups 3.x. All upgrade versions of the software is also affected. Windows versions below 3.0 are not affected. As a result, Microsoft has created a test which allows users to test for faulty software: If it says "Microsoft" on statup, it's defective. Microsoft officials insisted that the memory leaks were "features" intended to inform the user after approximately 300 lockups or the next release of the software (whichever comes first), the user should upgrade to the latest release.

  • Not HP Specific (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GarfBond ( 565331 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @11:19AM (#9543397)
    If you believe them that is. Quoted from the eweek article:
    The problem is tied to the interaction of DRAM from several manufacturers and several chip sets, all designed by Intel Corp. The flaw, which could result in system lockups, is being solved through a comprehensive recall that could affect up to 900,000 of HP's notebooks, a company representative said. Although HP classified the problem as one that will affect the notebook PC industry as a whole, it appears that the company is the only one currently taking action. A representative from Dell Computer Corp. said that the company was "looking into it."
    Quoted from the HP site:
    During normal ongoing notebook testing, HP has identified a design flaw in certain industry-standard memory modules supplied by third parties that were shipped with some HP and Compaq notebooks and in memory accessories for these notebooks. Under certain conditions, these memory modules can cause the notebook to experience blue screens, intermittent lockups, or memory data corruption.
    As much as I hate HP, kudos to them for having the balls to do this, if this really *is* an industrywide problem. HP is the only place I've really noticed mentioning this though.
  • I run linux so I can't check for the bad memory. Good job HP!
  • ... they might just as well also fix ACPI so suspend-to-RAM will work under Linux (on nx7010). And having the BIOS initialize the IR chip so it gets recognized without having to use smcinit can not be so difficult either. The same goes for the SD/MMC-card chip (I know there are no SD-card drivers, does anybody know about linux MMC card drivers?).
  • Me and my friend have bought the same laptop about 1 1/2 year ago, the Compaq EVO n1000v. They where both bought in Belgium.

    Both laptops just "shutdown", they get very slow and power goes out without any warning, black screen and you can restart ; bye data/document you where working on at that moment.

    Most of the times my friend gets it when he is working in Word, which is a real annoying situation (learned him to save often though ...)

    I tested and seems to be my 2 memory modules, both Compaq, have been t

  • Not HPs fault (Score:5, Informative)

    by phalse phace ( 454635 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @12:19PM (#9543970)
    I just love how everyone's bashing HP for this flaw even if it isn't their fault.
    "The problem is tied to the interaction of DRAM from several manufacturers and several chip sets, all designed by Intel Corp."

    Shouldn't HP be commended instead since they're the only ones who are currently taking action to resolve this problem?

    "Although HP classified the problem as one that will affect the notebook PC industry as a whole, it appears that the company is the only one currently taking action. A representative from Dell Computer Corp. said that the company was "looking into it.""
    • Not really. Not yet anyway.

      Remember - it is "HP" themselves that are classifying this as an industry wide problem at this point. If you have seen something from a 3rd party or other vendor that proves HP's claims, then yes....commend away. My position on HP is so sour at this point that I will not believe them about this being industry wide until I can verify it on my own. See my earlier post for the reasons why I dislike HP so much now if you wish, but I can sum it up for you in one sentence: Their quali

  • Always test the memory! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doppler00 ( 534739 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @01:14PM (#9544452) Homepage Journal
    Whenever I buy a new computer or new memory, I always run it through a memory tester [memtest86.com] I boot from a CD. It's good to run one of these for at least 24 hours. If you find any memory problems, you might want to return the product.

    It's also fun to benchmark it after the tests are done. I used SiSoftware Sandra BenchmarkHQ [benchmarkhq.ru].

    One thing to look out for though is BIOS programs that load into memory addresses that will effect the test. I kept getting errors until I disabled my onboard IDE RAID controller, and then the memory checked out fine. I guess the controller was loading something into the memory and the test would read it back after the controller changed it.
  • HP needs to recall the entire zt1xxx line. We purchased a zt1130 about 2 years ago and have been plagued with problems from the very beginning.

    The battery stopped holding a charge at about 11 months (my own fault for not returning it within the 1 year warranty). The hard drive failed at 13 months. The maker's warranty (IBM) on the drive was three years, but HP only honored one year.

    From the very beginning it would randomly turn off for no apparent reason. Now it's completely dead. Hit the power butt

  • Since this is an HP bash fest.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by RzUpAnmsCwrds ( 262647 ) on Sunday June 27, 2004 @03:18PM (#9545336)
    Since this is an HP bash fest, I'm going to turn in my experience.

    Why is my experience more relevent than the experiences of other slashdotters? Because, instead of working with one or two HP products, I've installed over one thousand HP computers this summer.

    I work for the local school district, which has 42 schools, including a new high school opening this year that needs 750 new computers. We remove the old computers (HP Vectra and Kayak systems) and replace them with D530 desktops. This district is located in a town where 10% of the working population works for HP, so all of the computer gear is HP. If HP sells it, we use it. HP printers, scanners, networking gear, monitors, desktops, servers, and notebooks.

    Of the 1000 systems we have installed so far throughout the district, only one has been DOA. And we have sent about 500 HP systems off to recycling - they are 6 years old and almost all are still working. Of the 1000 HP systems we installed last year, we have had three failures (all because of HDD failure).

    The D530 is a solid product, and it is built with essentially whitebox components. It is standard through and through, with the possible exception of the power supply (it's a different shape so that it can fit in the case) and the heatsink (it has a centrifugal blower instead of a fan). We have dropped several of the systems, stacked them 12 high, and otherwise abused them. Our only complaint so far has been that they are too easy to open (this is a school district, remember).

    These systems take a lot of abuse. They are power-cycled five or six times per day (teachers turn them off between periods even though we tell them not to), they are exposed to dirt and dust and other contamination (students bringing food into the labs), and sometimes students even open them and start touching things (we eventually found that zip-ties were an effective defense).

    We have old (and new) LaserJet printers in service. We even replaced a LaserJet II this year. The new HP printers are cheaper, faster, and better. People who say "they don't build them like they used to" are right. I doubt that these new printers will last 15 years. That said, these new printers are far faster and cheaper than they used to be. It's a tradeoff.

    So, when you say that "hp is crap", remember this: I've dealt with thousands of HP systems, and I can tell you that the failure rate is as low as can be reasonably expected.

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