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Wireless Networking United States Hardware

Spokane Gets Unwired 103

Posted by michael from the have-802.11b-will-travel dept.
prostoalex writes "Spokane International Airport is getting wireless connectivity just before the city will expand WiFi coverage to 100 blocks in Spokane downtown. It will be the largest urban Wi-Fi zone in the United States, said Bob Conley, a founder of Vivato, the company that made the antennas for both installations. Vivato's press release mentions the service will be useful not only to casual downloaders. The downtown 'Hot Zone' will improve city services by facilitating intelligent policing, quicker fire and rescue response, and will support e-government initiatives and a more productive mobile workforce."
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Spokane Gets Unwired More

Spokane Gets Unwired

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  • Ehhh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:25PM (#9469056)
    I don't know that I like wifi being used for real substantive critical things like emergency services. It's still just a little too unreliable, signal can get messed up by whatever... I'd hate to have my house being burned down and the fire department doesn't know because the weather messes up their wireless network.
    • I don't know that I like wifi being used for real substantive critical things like emergency services. It's still just a little too unreliable, signal can get messed up by whatever..

      I'm not sure I like the idea of being dependent on wired technology in a region that is earthquake prone.

      • Re:Ehhh (Score:3, Informative)

        by fm6 ( 162816 )
        The alternative isn't wired technology. The alternative is the wireless technology that emergency people already use.

    • Technology Du Jour (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Note the contrast: cells phones danger terrorism bad, jamming technology needed (never mind that emergency services also rely on cell phones)

      OTOH: Wireless freedom innovation good

      Right now geek wireless can do no wrong.

    • Re:Ehhh (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Spokane International Airport was fine BEING wired.

      What a waste, nearly every waiting area had these desks with cat5 outlets near them that you could plug in to.

      I'd rather plug in with a 30 ft wired cat5 then have connectivity issues and dropping signals every 30 seconds.

      I like my "wire" thank you very much.

      Jump off the damn WIFI bandwagon, WIFI sucks and isn't as reliable as wires.
    • Doubter! You would have also opposed the invention of the telephone in it's day for the same reasons! While every new technology has it's challenges the advantages will over weight the obstacles. I think it's great that the city of Spokane is going wireless! I look forward to begin connected all over the planet for a reasonable cost which will not happen unless we make these steps forward. I think with GPS wireless will in crease our ability to respond to emergencies and locate people in trouble. Imag

  • Woohoo (Score:4, Funny)

    by filtur ( 724994 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:29PM (#9469087) Homepage
    Finally, now I have something to do while I'm waiting to get through a security checkpoint, respond to those viagra e-mails.

  • Double-edged sword (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nsample ( 261457 ) <nsample.stanford@edu> on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:29PM (#9469088) Homepage
    The real hope is that this service, as it relates to emergency response, does not become another layer of dependency. At Stanford we had the pleasure of testing IP phones in the CS department and living with the fact that when the power fails, the phones are gone, too.
    As an old man, a child of the 70s, I was used to power and telephone access being separate concerns. We liked it.

    By isolating services, you often get safety through redundancy. Wiring emergency response into a new infrastructure is a dangerous proposition.
    Keep fire and rescue response on their own bands. Keep alarm systems on dry pairs. Etc. Save a life today; be old school. ;)

    • Re:Double-edged sword (Score:4, Informative)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:38PM (#9469147) Journal
      It's not a network you dispatch through, it'd be a network in which a cop can file reports from his car and save a little paperwork back at the station.

      Plenty of agencies use drive in hot spots to access the RMS systems, run queries, etc.
    • the wi-fi and the cell system both collapse when power disappears for a couple of days.

      at least at&t maintained the batteries for rotary dial!

    • Just like any new service fine tuning it to meet the needs and concerns of problems like backup power will have to be addressed. Now that we are in the wireless cell phone generation (all my kids and their friends have one) it makes a lot of sense to have wireless emergency response capability. I'm sure we will continue to use land lines for emergencies as long as it makes sense to. The thing that surprises me is all the doubt and apathy to new technology in this discussion. I though this was a forward
  • Hope it stretches out to my house :)

  • Quality? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by nial-in-a-box ( 588883 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:35PM (#9469128) Homepage
    I still have yet to hear about how reliable this stuff actually is. Putting an AP at every intersection simply isn't good enough. I'm not saying that's what they are doing, but if it is than it's basically pointless. To deliver speeds of greater than 1Mbps for all users there would need to be essentially thousands of access points to handle this, seeing as the signal strength issues lie mainly on the client side. Policing (at any level) via WiFi sounds like a recipe for disaster.

    • Re:Quality? (Score:3, Informative)

      by chia_monkey ( 593501 )
      The Vivato panels that are being used are pretty robust. They're not your $49 Linksys that you buy at Circuit City. These Vivatos are capable of blasting a few blocks with the desired wireless bandwidth. It's actually pretty impressive. So yeah, to answer your question, they won't be putting up a bazillion access points. Just a few well-placed panels that can handle tremendous usage.

    • Re:Quality? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mcrbids ( 148650 )
      To deliver speeds of greater than 1Mbps for all users there would need to be essentially thousands of access points to handle this, seeing as the signal strength issues lie mainly on the client side.

      Do you have any idea how FEW people would need anything aywhere NEAR a Mb of bandwidth?

      I'm a fairly heavy user - MRTG reports my monthly usage on my 1.5 Mbit DSL line as ~ 50 GB or so of traffic per month, on an internal, home network of 7 computer systems.

      (whip out calculator)

      50 GB of transfer /month
      8 bits
      • Only on average.

        I used to work at an ISP, and we found our ADSL users were using an average of 25kbit per second per session. At the time the connections were a megabit.

        So that says something about how much capacity is necessary in total to keep your users happy, but it doesn't mean everyone would be just as happy with 25kbit connections :)

  • Like it or not, WiFi is here to stay (Score:5, Insightful)

    by chia_monkey ( 593501 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:38PM (#9469152) Journal
    We've heard many people ranting on about how insecure WiFi is, how it will never catch on, and so forth. Then you hear people talk about how great it is. Like it or not, it's here to stay. I like to think of WiFi as the new "wild west", the dotcom of the new generation. Just like the earlier dotcoms, companies are scrambing to make their mark. Some will fail miserably, some will grow to be giants, and some will be successful and be eaten (or destroyed) by the giants. It's still early in the game and it's hard to tell who will win out. Cometa is gone and they had some big backers. Maybe they just didn't have the proper management or revenue model. It'll be interesting to see how this all turns out.

    • Just like the earlier dotcoms, companies are scrambing to make their mark. Some will fail miserably, some will grow to be giants, and some will be successful and be eaten (or destroyed) by the giants.

      This is what worries me. With wireless networking, it is possible to build free community networks that span large distances and don't rely on rented infrastructure (phone lines, cable, etc...), except for uplink to the rest of the internet. (For an example of what such a network would look like, check ou

  • terabyte triangle (Score:4, Informative)

    by sxtxixtxcxh ( 757736 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:40PM (#9469158) Homepage Journal
    from http://terabytetrigangle.com : We (Spokane) also have connectivity - more high-speed fiber per capita than any city in the U.S. - all of downtown has high-speed services available via either fiber or copper. -------------- not sure, but i doubt they'll be adding wi-fi to that last of high-speed services.

    it'll probably be more like a giant starbucks. $10/hr ... :P
    • oops.. that address is http://terabytetriangle.com [terabytetriangle.com]... *sighs*
    • That's nice if you live downtown. When I lived in the Spokane Valley (between 1997 and 2002), I couldn't get jack shit in terms of high speed Internet there. No cable, no DSL. ISDN was the best I could get, and it was fucken expensive.

      -- PhoneBoy
      • Quoth the poster:

        That's nice if you live downtown. When I lived in the Spokane Valley (between 1997 and 2002) . . .

        You mean the new (retch) city of Spokane Valley [spokanevalleyonline.com]? They finally passed it after God-only-knows how many tries. You couldn't get high-speed anything? How far out in the boonies were you?
        • I know they were talking about incorporating Spokane Valley when I was about to leave. I lived up in Northwood, which is off Argonne after it goes up the hill. I think Northwood falls just outside the "Spokane Valley" city limits. Not sure that classifies as "out in the boonies," but it was quite the distance from the CO in any case.
          • I wouldn't call Northwood the boonies either. Matter of fact, I'd say you lived up there off Argonne where the rich people live (well, the ones who don't live in Mead, Liberty Lake, or the South Hill anyway).

  • oh great (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Now the cops will just sit around eating doughnuts AND watching porn.....

  • Unwired? (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They switched to decaf!

  • Airport connectivity (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kludge ( 13653 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:58PM (#9469255)
    I was in the Quad Cities "International" Airport yesterday, and HEY! free wireless internet. Score! But then in Detroit it was $7 to hook up. :P

    Then I thought, there should be some user maintained web page that summarizes what kind of networking airports have available. I couldn't find such a thing on google. Any hints?

  • I'm in Spokane. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Darth Muffin ( 781947 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:59PM (#9469261) Homepage
    They mentioned this on the news earlier this week, said that downtown was already wired. So my wife and I went war driving downtown.


    Out of 4 random intersections downtown (well within the listed coverage area), 3 had no signal and the 4th was so weak it kept coming and going.



    I suppose you get what you pay for...

    • ... a follow up:
      The linked artile mentions that the "switch" won't be flipped for another week. The local paper article said it was active already, they wanted it up for the big "hoopfest" tournament this weekend.
      So, one of the articles is wrong (probably our paper, it sux0rz). Maybe that's why I couldn't connect.
      • Go180.net currently provides half-a-dozen free hotspots in Spokane, not affiliated with this story.

        http://www.go180.net/products/details.asp?DetID= 5

        Those are probably what you were detecting.

        -Charles (ex-Spokane resident)
    • You didn't get a signal everywhere because not everything is set up yet. Wait until next week. BTW, chip and I (remember SpokLAN) are thinking about doing some wardriving too.
  • WiFi...quicker fire and rescue response

    1. Buy lots of 2.4 GHz phones and plug them in all over downtown Spokane.
    2. Rob a bank.
    3. Profit!
  • last time i was there with my laptop i was happily supprised to find free wifi. nothing better than memorizing slashdot posts to pass the time...

  • In related news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Joey Patterson ( 547891 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:00PM (#9469266)
    Spokane city officials today announced that the city's population has more than quadrupled due to the sudden influx of Internet geeks who are looking for WiFi. Spokane's mayor likes to refer to it as "the Slashdot effect."
    • Jim West (mayor of Spokane) is a fucking asshat. I worked directly underneath him before he was in politics (summer job at a boy scout camp that he was a directory of). Though he does support the wireless hotspot, which my apartment is in (though no service yet), so maybe I need to change my opinion.
    • So that explains why I had to go to EWU's library to find a Linux instillation CD, that wasn't scratched beyond usability.

  • This is how we do it.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rmarll ( 161697 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:04PM (#9469279) Journal
    Airport officials aren't sure how many people will sign up to use the service, but the system is equipped to handle hundreds of simultaneous users.

    The service is free until July 16, after which it will cost $6.95 a day.

    The airport spent no money to install the service, and will net at least $60,000 a year after Airport Network Solutions takes its cut.

    Oh and by the way, the federal government coughed up a cool million [spokanejournal.com] to finance this venture.

    For those of you who are unfamilar with Spokane we do math a little differently around here. The parking garage downtown for instance. Paid for by the city, for the Cowley family who own the River Park Square mall (and the local papaer) can only break even when it is near 100% capacity year round.

    No, it has never even come close to breaking even.

    • Correction: Cowles Family and at least mention The SpokesmanReview/Spokane Chronicle.

      http://www.spokesmanreview.com [spokesmanreview.com]

      Born and raised in Spokane myself, also currently residing in Spokane, for the short-term.

      Another reason for the massive expansion is WSU Branch Spokane is also about to pour in $300 Million to expand along 54 acres of land adjacent to downtown, that includes lots of new industry labratories, a nursing branch and room to support 5,000 more students.

      Also Mayor Jim West is really pus

  • Great tourist idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Stalke ( 20083 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:04PM (#9469283)
    This would make a great tourist / sightseeing / shopping platform for many small towns or urban areas in general. You know those things they hand out at museums. What if something like that could be targetted so that someone would walk around a whole city and through gps they would be able to not only find out the history, but also (convinently) that the shops they were passing on the way to another historic spot were "the same place that so-body was caught doing to you know what". You don't always need a gui for this stuff. How much would a gps + cpu + speaker cost anyways?
    • ...would be able to not only find out the history, but also (convinently) that the shops they were passing on the way to another historic spot...

      It would be cool until the fscking companies found out that people actually pay attention to it. From then on it would be loaded with ads until people finally quit using them.

  • Parking meter usage.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by yokem_55 ( 575428 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:11PM (#9469323)
    I wonder if the Spo-compton parking meter nazis will use this. I wouldn't be surprised as when I was living there attending Gonzaga, they had an incredible and uncanny ability to pounce on an expired meter literally withing 60 seconds of expiration. They probably could cut that time down to a quarter of that if each meter had a wifi device and a simple program to broadcast when a meter has expired.....
    • i don't see how parent is a troll... aside from the negativism toward the parking meter maids (with whom i've actually never had a problem, and i've been parked at expired meters for 10 minutes some times.)...

      parent actually brings up an interesting use for a wifi blanket. personally, it'd be nice if we could put a transmitter in our cars that would notify the meters when we were parked, and charge only for the time spent, and for squatters: an insane amount for being parked longer than a set (and high v
  • I just can't believe that all this EMF is safe.
  • "...and will support e-government initiatives and a more productive mobile workforce."

    Let's see how many buzzwords we can pack into that last dependent clause:

    "...and will grow e-civil management initiatives and will improve the morale of the mindshare in a more immersive global knowledge worker production environment."

    Mod Interesting or Underrated, help my karma.
    • Quoth the poster:

      "...and will support e-government initiatives and a more productive mobile workforce."

      Let's see how many buzzwords we can pack into that last dependent clause:

      "...and will grow e-civil management initiatives and will improve the morale of the mindshare in a more immersive global knowledge worker production environment."

      This is fairly typical of Spokane. As late as 2000, I knew people in Spokane who were talking about "getting on that new Internet thing" and suchlike.

      Spokane is a pa

      • World's Fair, Expo '74, not Expo '76.

        I agree the city is 15 years late at acknowledging the days of being a haven for retirees with money are over and need to be over in order for the second largest city in Washington State to grow or die.

        • Quoth the poster:

          World's Fair, Expo '74, not Expo '76.

          Oops! I think that was a hybrid of Expo '74 in Spokane and Expo '86 in Vancouver, BC.

          Does this mean I have to turn my Spokane native card?

      • Spokane has too many cops, not enough. Cite statistics all you want the fact of the matter is the more restrictive law enforcement gets on the citizens of any community the more crime will spike, both due in part because laws change to introduce once legal activities and now illegal activities, and due in part to the fact people of a Free Nation don't like being controlled by a myriad of frivolous laws.

        Blame Spokane City Council's trumping of any Spokane Mayor over the past 35 plus years as to how come

  • > The downtown 'Hot Zone' will improve city services
    > by facilitating intelligent policing, quicker fire
    > and rescue response, and will support e-government
    >initiatives and a more productive mobile workforce."

    Not to mention denial of services when it gets hacked. Hopefully, there will be redundancy in system services and tip top security.

    Also, I'm not sure I want my connectivity through a municipal carrier. What is the legal landscape like? How much regulation will there be?

    I'm all for get

  • Congratulations, idiots (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ajp ( 192328 ) on Saturday June 19, 2004 @09:38AM (#9472203)
    Airports shouldn't be selling internet access. While $6.95 isn't a heady chunk of change in my budget it's not something I'm gonna pay when I need to save my batteries for that 4-hour cross country. And finding an open, accessible power socket in an airport is like finding a Krispy Kreme in the Friday bagel basket.

    Why do I want net access in an airport? To check flight times when I'm picking someone up. To check e-mail for a few minutes, maybe. But seven bucks for a 45-minute layover? Give me a break.

    If, say, Topeka International had free, casual wireless access and Fargo International didn't I'd be more likely to book my flights through Topeka. What would Topeka get? My landing fees (which is their core business.) My undying dedication to FooBar Air, who uses--and is more likely to maintain--Topeka as their hub. And happy passengers.

    IBM gives away an OS because they want to sell hardware and consulting services. Stick to your core business. Giving away wifi is inexpensive and high-profile.
    • Why do I want net access in an airport? To check flight times when I'm picking someone up.

      Why don't you just look up from your laptop to the big screens on the wall with all the flight info? Yeah, those are the ones.
  • The other day I saw a fruit stand in rural central Washington advertising free WiFi. For those interested, it's highway 97A between Orondo and Chelan. ;)
  • How in the world are you going to track down malicious hackers if they can connect from anywhere they want? Isn't physical access one of the only ways you can hold people accountable for thier behavior?

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