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Wireless Networking Communications Hardware

Advice On A New-School Old-School BBS 235

An anonymous reader asks I am thinking about setting up a local "community" network over WiFi minus internet connection. In other words, I would like to run a small server isolated from the web as an experiment in small scale networks (e.g., serving a café-heavy one-block radius.) I have plenty of clever ideas -- discussion/gripe boards, weird artistic projects -- anything to bring back the old-school BBS memories where online users were drawn from a single geographic location. But everything I've learned so far is how to act as a small node on someone else's network. How can I make my own -- and make it wireless? Google doesn't pull much up that I can find: it is mostly targeted towards those building a (free or profit) Internet access point." (Read on for more.)

" Does anybody have sources of information for how to learn about setting up the network I have in mind? Basic tutorials and those covering more advanced issues such as security would be very helpful. Finally, is there anyone out there with real world experience? Beyond imparting technical help, do you have suggestions for implementation? What worked, and what didn't? Did the lack of internet access make the project unpopular? (And if you did provide internet access as a teaser, how did you handle liability and financial issues?)"

(This reminds me of the Community Memory Project; can anyone point to some modern equivalents?)

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Advice On A New-School Old-School BBS

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  • It's an "intranet" (Score:5, Informative)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:10PM (#9426141)
    The tech side to this is relatively simple. What you're going to want to do is to basically create your own IP-based network that isn't the Internet... that means your WiFi should have a DHCP server that hands out 10.x.x.x (unroutable) addresses to anybody who wants to get one to get them on board...

    Once there, your DNS universe is gonna be a bit funny. You should map all .com, .net, .org and for that matter any "real" web request to a "Hello World!" webserver that explains that your WiFi link isn't offering a connection to the Internet, instead it's a one-of-a-kind location that's offering...

    From there, you just assign your own server names to whatever have to offer, and serve it using standard Internet technologies for web content.

    I think your problem is that you're not searching on the right term on Google. What you want to do is called an "intranet"... and it's really nothing more than setting up Internet-designed IP-based stuff and forgetting to add the link to the outside world.

    Now, how you're gonna promote such a thing... well, that's up to you.
    • that means your WiFi should have a DHCP server that hands out 10.x.x.x (unroutable) addresses to anybody who wants to get one to get them on board.

      There might be a technical detail I'm missing here, but is it strictly necessary to assign private IP addresses? I know it would be prudent, but not really a must, unless I'm missing something.
      • by Anonymous Coward
        1. There might be a technical detail I'm missing here, but is it strictly necessary to assign private IP addresses? I know it would be prudent, but not really a must, unless I'm missing something.

        It's necessary...unless you're perfect. :)

        As a side benifit, software and embedded devices are usually configured by default to handle all private addresses (not just 10.x.x.x) differently. If you use public addresses, these settings might need to be changed...adding another layer of something to get wrong.

      • by Joe U ( 443617 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:42PM (#9426352) Homepage Journal
        You are right, it's not really necessary.

        However, if someone decides in a few days/weeks/months/years that they want something to connect to the Internet, then the addresses would have to change.

        Why do the same work twice?
      • by Fjornir ( 516960 )
        It's good practice, and future-proofind against the day when his network might get an internet link of some sort (think: time to download and deploy patches and updates on his intranet servers).
      • It's not a technical must in that nothing will explode should routable IP space be used... but by only using 10.x.x.x IP space, a user could be connected to this network and the wide open Internet at the same time and have no address conflicts be possible.
        • but by only using 10.x.x.x IP space, a user could be connected to this network and the wide open Internet at the same time and have no address conflicts be possible.

          I use 192.168.x.x you insensitive clod!
          • The 192.168.x.x address range was designed for casual / home users, while the 10.x.x.x address range was designed for business use. The reason behind this is that the business user was assumed to need a much faster connection than the home user, and early routers were based on 4 bit hardware : a 4 bit processor can handle the number '10' in one whack because it is smaller than 16, but 192 would take the early 4 bit processors 12 cycles to process - thus the early business user networks had the potential to
            • a 4 bit processor can handle the number '10' in one whack because it is smaller than 16

              How does the this router know that the number is smaller than 16 without looking at the other bits and making sure they aren't all zero?

              What about:

              0000 0000 0001 1010

              and the other 2^12 combinations that just so happen to have the last 4 binary bits in common with the number

              0000 0000 0000 1010

              ?
            • Hey, if you look in the source to the parent post, you'll find an HTML comment that says "gullible".
      • Please, please, please...

        Do not assume that you users only have one network connection.

        Please!

        So... yeah... you really should be nice and use a private numbering scheme so that you don't mess up their *other* connections.
    • by gregmac ( 629064 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:49PM (#9426387) Homepage
      You should map all .com, .net, .org and for that matter any "real" web request to a "Hello World!" webserver that explains that your WiFi link isn't offering a connection to the Internet, instead it's a one-of-a-kind location that's offering...

      The interesting thing to do would be to setup a local .something domain (maybe the name of your city?) that isn't a normal TLD. This would help to distinguish your network from the Internet.

      It would also scale if the network is ever connected to the Internet, and external intenet users could even access the sites by changing their DNS settings.. perhaps even extending to local ISPs picking up this network and offering it as a local service, only when you're connected through them.
    • Why don't you forget all the technology and just do a Java based chat room that looks like a BBS. You can host it on a server and people access it via a wireless internet connection. Just give out login and passwords to only local people. Other than not dialing in with a modem you'd never be able to tell the difference. The only thing that makes your network unique is that it is geographically constrained. If you can't manage to screen users based on geography find another way, such as having them pick
      • Why don't you forget all the technology and just do a Java based chat room that looks like a BBS. You can host it on a server and people access it via a wireless internet connection. Just give out login and passwords to only local people. Other than not dialing in with a modem you'd never be able to tell the difference. The only thing that makes your network unique is that it is geographically constrained. If you can't manage to screen users based on geography find another way, such as having them pick up a login written on a piece of paper at a central place.

        Better yet, why not just run a real, modern 32bit BBS? [synchro.net] There are both *nix and windows versions and it's opensource ;) Plus, it uses the mozilla team's javascript engine, so you can write your own modules to extend the functionality quickly (the IRC service included with synchronet is written in javascript). I'm currently writing a new command shell for my BBS using JS. And of course, Synchronet runs nearly all of the old 16bit DOS doors (easier to achieve on Windows but not impossible on *nix using a dos emulator). I run LORD, Trade Wars, Clans, and other older games on my BBS that are (interestingly) still popular (over 150 user accounts and climbing - not bad for a new BBS started a year ago in the post-BBS era!)

    • Content threshold (Score:5, Interesting)

      by drenehtsral ( 29789 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:56PM (#9426434) Homepage
      Ten years ago I ran a BBS with a friend, and it was fairly successful. A lot of it had to do with the fact that we had a lot of content that wasn't around elsewhere. One problem I forsee is soembody mirroring in real time to the web, then you won't have that unique content anymore. I mean you'll still have it, but it won't be unique.

      So first off, you have to assume that anything you have will leak off to the larger network. That doesn't mean that all is lost, you just have to make sure that your content is compelling enough to grab people and make them connect up, post, and participate.

      I would suggest a MUD as a possible hook to grab people. They're fun, they're community based by nature, and they're addictive. Or something like TradeWars 2002, etc... Back in the BBS days people would log in all the time to play the games, and then once they were on they'd also post messages, exchange files, and communicate.

      I would also suggest having informal get-togethers every once in a while. In Ithaca, NY we used to have "geekfests" every month where you could meet and greet people from the BBS community, people would bring their computers and game or show off their latest programming projects, etc... That really anchored the community aspect. Lately Fark has been doing something similar, having parties for FARK users in various cities, and then the photos and some highlights get posted back to the main site. While I don't participate extensively in FARK, it seems like that is building some sense of real community there.

      In essence, if you have enough content to hook people, and you facilitate the initial socialization period, you can build a community that will endure.
      • If you wanted a buncha nerds using your network.

        But TW has a relatively high barrier to entry, and requires daily interaction. Might be a nice side-show for a few people on the network, but certainly shouldn't be the main "bait" - nor should a MUD.

        KISS - bulliten board, chat area. That's going to be the core of anything community (of the geographic sort) based.
    • by Alan Hicks ( 660661 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:58PM (#9426442) Homepage
      Once there, your DNS universe is gonna be a bit funny. You should map all .com, .net, .org and for that matter any "real" web request to a "Hello World!" webserver that explains that your WiFi link isn't offering a connection to the Internet, instead it's a one-of-a-kind location that's offering...

      nah, DNS won't be a problem at all! it's simple. Your DHCP server never assigns a default gateway, so none of the machines on the network have an entry in their routing table to get out. They'll query the only DNS server available, and immediately find they can't reach that website, and give the "destination unreachable" message.

      Now, if you do want to redirect everyone to a webpage that explains what you're about, take a look at NoCatAuth. It can do exactly this.

    • Proxy server (Score:3, Interesting)

      Just set up a proxy server that routes all traffic to the BBS website.
  • by rd4tech ( 711615 ) * on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:10PM (#9426142)
    I don't quite think it will fly.
    I has bbs at the time, when internet was quite expensive back home, and it was doing ok mainly because lack of option.
    Today, www is hugee, you don't have to restrict to a single area, you aren't limited to, with things like slashdot, disney, news, streaming and p2p, you have highly specialized and good services for free *discreet cough* .
    On the other hand, if it's strictly intranet, restricting outside access AT ALL, it might turn out as an interesting experiment. Do tell us how it will grow (if it grows at all).
    • I think that's the point of this project. To create an interesting oracle of information that is only available within the range of a WiFi signal... no connection to the outside world in or out available.

      Be interesting to see if he can pull it off and get enough content and user interactivity to make it work...
    • by Wavicle ( 181176 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @10:47PM (#9426688)
      www is hugee, you don't have to restrict to a single area,

      I think you might have missed the point of the article. He specifically wants geographical isolation. All this "freeom" the internet has given us has taken away something else. You just don't have the sense of community on the internet. You can't decide "Hey, this weekend let's meet at pub XYZ" and actually interact with these people as humans have evolved to do.
      • You can't decide "Hey, this weekend let's meet at pub XYZ"

        Oh, how wrong you are. There's thousands of little regional BBS type sites out on the internet. They largely spread by word of mouth. They stay regional by virtue of the fact that the core users all get together regularly at pub XYZ. There's no shortage of software for running these sorts of things either. Putting it on the internet just increases availability. I can go and chat with my friends while I'm at work. Likewise if I live a little
    • I think the original poster is on to something, but it isn't the geographical access. Text based BBSes have a certain quality to it that can't be replaced by the now very graphical www. It's like the difference between reading a book and reading a magazine.
  • My advice. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by infonick ( 679715 ) * on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:10PM (#9426145) Homepage
    I've thought of this myself for my own city. I'm not ready to take on such a project, but in the event that i change my mind, these would be the first issues i would adress:

    1) who is paying for equiptment?
    2) where is the equiptment going to be located?
    3) how many people are acutally interested (is it going to be a wasted effort)?
    4) servers to host content
    5) Mesures to prevent people from causing problems (dhcp servers, hackers, viri and such)
    6) will DNS be used?
    7) Scale of network vs ammount of information being communicated

    #7 is most important because if you have alot of people using this system as though it were a LAN, general broadcasts will be flooding your entire network. you will need *real routers* to segment parts of the network.
    *real routers* means they're not intended for home use (ie: Linksys, d-link, etc...)
    #4,5,6 & 7 all assume this network is large - predict this! its less work later if this really takes off for ya.

    oh, and Seattle wireless has a network like this so you'll want to take a peak there to see how they have things set up.
  • Redirection (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:14PM (#9426169)
    You're gonna want to redirect all web requests to your BBS web page. The thing that people naturally do when they connect to a hot spot is to try to surf. If they get redirected, they'll see what your hot spot is for. You might also support various file sharing protocols with one visible machine. On that machine have one visible file that says README with instructions on how to surf to the BBS.
  • by fishbowl ( 7759 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:14PM (#9426170)
    People are actually pining for the bad old days of the regional bbs, when we clung desperately to even the most tenuous connection to other nets?
    • No, they're pining for the good parts of the bad old days. Nobody wants to give up today's connectivity or bandwidth, but today we have the network version of the "Toshiro-san in Kobe is a good friend, but I don't know diddly about the people in the apartment next to mine" syndrome.
  • Hell yeah! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Apiakun ( 589521 ) <tikora AT gmail DOT com> on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:14PM (#9426173)
    Whatever software you use, make sure it supports the old online games like tradewars, pimpwars, global war, etc! I miss those old games and waiting to have to play my turn. I know there are alternatives on some telnet BBSs, but it's just not the same as waiting to dial in on Terminate or PCPlus and getting that busy signal. If I could be sitting at the local coffee shop, I would happily log in to whatever was available and check recent message boards and games, even though it'll never be the same as it was 15 years ago.
    • Whatever software you use, make sure it supports the old online games like tradewars, pimpwars, global war, etc! I miss those old games and waiting to have to play my turn.

      Greetings, HOOMAN!

    • Re:Hell yeah! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      This isn't funny, it the natural response. It was the first idea I had when I read the story.

      The second thing I thought of was that the BBS served a community. Therefore, you service might be about publicizing events and opportunities in and around the area. If the audience is the coffee house crowd, then think of what they would want to know about. I suspect the one thing that will doom the service, as it tends to doom any service, is to have personal inflexible agenda.

    • Who else sat down with pen and paper to figure out exactly how long you could spend checking the messages and playing tradewars before you had to start downloading the night's Cindy Crawford picture? Only me? Nothing really changes much, I guess.
    • www.synchro.net (Score:4, Informative)

      by Vthornheart ( 745224 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @12:18AM (#9427112)
      This is a freeware program, and one of the most robust BBS systems ever... particularily since it's one of the only ones still being developed. The guy who makes it is a really nice fellow too... I'd check it out. It supports making Telnet BBSs with up to (I believe) 255 virtual nodes, and it works perfectly with LORD, Usurper, etc... In fact, not too long ago I ran a BBS at my college. Those were good times... memories... =)
  • Who will be God? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tpconcannon ( 619066 )
    I am seeing some problems with this set up already. First and foremost, who will have the administraion privileges? Who says what can and cannot be put on this "bbs"? Who will have the physical equipment and/or the storage for this set up? Will there be censorship of things? Will games be allowed over the network? Just some things that flashed through my mind.
  • interesting (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Schlemphfer ( 556732 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:20PM (#9426216) Homepage
    Back in the olden days, free access to BBS's was constrained by your local telco calling area. Which meant that you could reach one, and stay on as long as you'd like, for free, so long as it was less than about 20 miles away.

    And these days, the magic distance is perhaps a quarter mile.

    And you call that progress? ;)

    • In North America? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ReptileQc ( 679542 )
      I used to run a BBS too. I assume you must be outside North America, since I heard in Europe (and in a lot of other places) you have to actually pay for every minute online (long distance or not). In Canada and USA, as long as it's a local call, you don't have to pay per minute and only pay the basic charges. That meant people could call anywhere and stay online as long as they wanted as long as it was regional. I guess we were lucky (and are still!). ;) Ahhh.... those good old times. I still play BRE
    • Re:interesting (Score:4, Informative)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:28PM (#9426268)
      WiFi can travel pretty far when done properly... which would involve an omnidirectional transmitter/antenna setup mounted high and broadcasting at the max power allowed by FCC rules. Most consumer devices are designed to only transmit at 1/10th the FCC limit out of the box, so anybody rigging such a setup should look for more professional-grade equipment.

      Besides, in a rather densly populated city, you could hit several large appartment structures within the range.
    • Ah, but you can use the old message board networks. They used to dial up once or twice a day and swap message packs between boards. Or to extended coverage to the entire country / world, you could just tunnel all connections anywhere to one central service... but block all regular internet traffic. I can already see the old RENEGADE system having a heart attack handling 2,000,000 requests a day. You could even charge people for ripterm graphics capability. Ahh... sweet nastalgia.
    • Which meant that you could reach one, and stay on as long as you'd like

      And then, there was call waiting, and then later there were roommates, and the worst of the lot: roommates who insisted on subscribing to call waiting.

      Sure, you could dial *70 or whatever to turn call waiting off, but only if you remember to put it in the dialer config...
    • It would be possible, I think, to add a couple of phone lines that people could dial into the Intranet. This would expand the area back out to the old BBS range.

      I ran a Wildcat! BBS back in the day, with two phone lines. After BBSs died, I wanted to do exactly what this topic is about, only people could dial into it and access it with their web browser instead of proprietary BBS software (I had my idea before wireless was out there).

      Usurper_ii

      • I used to run an OBV/2 under OS/2, with three nodes. For a while there, in 1995 and early 1996, I had two additional nodes setup to run over the internet and my ISDN line. It halved the bandwidth for some people but it was fun have 4 nodes instead of just 3.

        I used the vmodem emulation driver that was part of the SIO/VSIO communication driver set for OS/2. They used to be accessible from Ray Gwinn's Website [gwinn.com].

        Basically, the software created a virtual modem on a com port of your choice (all the way up to 16
  • well (Score:4, Interesting)

    by maxbang ( 598632 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:23PM (#9426239) Journal

    If you want 80s old school, you could do something akin to the WELL. I had something similar in my old building complex (one computer on my floor where people would just post crap for everyone else to see) but it turned into a sort of an internal craigslist. That's not a bad thing, though, and the landlord bought it from me for one month's rent. In the new building I wired up a half-dozen neighbors on my network, installed ICQ, and showed them how to post to a tiny news server I had setup. They're more keen on surfing the web, though, so I just limit their bandwidth to 1 mbps. As for a BBS, well, that was a little before my time, but not so much before that I don't remember feeling ripped off after waiting an hour to download what I thought would be hot pr0n. Turned out to be a girl in a bikini. In a bikini fercrissakes!

  • by aderusha ( 32235 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:25PM (#9426248) Homepage
    first suggestion - better make sure that anybody in the universe is interested in this project before you spend a lot of money and time on it. there's very little reason at all for anybody to participate in something like this when they can join the community of the internet at large, and still get the local flavor from local websites if they like.

    having said that, you could probably accomplish just about everything you need with existing wireless access points with some hacked-up firmware. wi-fi box is offering free replacement firmware for the linksys WRT54G series access points that offers a captive portal and some advanced routing features including WDS. what this means is that you can display a splash page to anybody who types in an arbitrary URL (say, www.slashdot.org) and inform them that they only have access to a certain few pages (links provided of course.) with WDS you can chain multiple access point together wirelessly, although you may be best served splitting some areas into subnets and cabling them together with tradional CAT5.

    there are other options for the WRT54G firmware - www.sveasoft.com is one of the most popular. just be careful with this one, because the author thinks that reselling GPL'd software for $20 is a great idea, and if you have the gall to say otherwise here on slashdot he'll ban your ass from his forums and ftp servers in a heartbeat. you can distribute his software as allowed by the GPL, but if he catches you doing it or questioning his policies he'll make sure you can't access the software anymore. here's my original post on sveasoft that lead to the banning in question: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=109547&cid =9304955

    the guy is a real pecker and probably doesn't deserve your $20 anyway.
  • by Elvis Maximus ( 193433 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:25PM (#9426249) Homepage
    This is a great idea, but I think you're limiting yourself artificially. You will probably have a hard time attracting wireless users to connect only to local content.

    The BBSes that were really good were the ones that had decent content. If you lived in an area that had a lot of BBSes, the duller ones fell by the wayside pretty quickly. If anything kept them alive, it was the fact that you didn't get a busy signal when you tried to dial them.

    Why not put something online that has very local content and let a broader cross-section participate? If the content is good, and you can get the word out, they will come.
    • You will probably have a hard time attracting wireless users to connect only to local content.

      You can say that about any web site. This site has the advantage that he's hosting it himself and can put hundreds of gigabytes worth of content up. With all that space, he can make his site very interesting without having to pay an arm and a leg to a hosting provider. I think that's what he means by BBS community spirit, doing it yourself and having lots of interesting stuff.

      I imagine that the only reason he'

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:25PM (#9426250)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I remember running a Renegade board for a bit-- best free s/w that I ever found was "ViSiON-X"--

      There are still many telnet-BBSs on the net, but parent is right-- they're dead--

      I miss em.
      • in fact, it was limited to two registered copies per area code to maintain exclusivity. It had an interesting feature whereby if you used a crack on the software, it would would at some point in the future format your hard disk.

        It also had a back door where the authors could log in with sysop access and fuck with your configuration.

        The V-X authors were evil.

  • Make it web-based (Score:5, Informative)

    by Fooby ( 10436 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:29PM (#9426276)
    Others have already discussed how to set up a wireless intranet with non-routable addresses. The next step is to decide what kind of community you create. I recommend setting up a webserver with some kind of web-based community to start with, you could use Slash [slashcode.com] or Scoop [kuro5hin.org]. Most likely most casual Wi-Fi users in your area will be most at home with a web-based community.

    Of course if you wanted to be more old-school you could set up a public-access *NIX login, or even run an old-school BBS type deal via telnet. It would still be a good idea to route people to a website explaining how to get in. For that check out here [dmoz.com] and here [gnu.org], and here [freshmeat.net]

    • Agreed... I second the Slashcode idea.

      Also, add a Wiki and a free blog system (jspwiki.org?) in addition to a few online games.

      Could be quite a nice setup.

      Could you setup your "community" and still gate to the internet? Have enough local content to be compelling while blocking access from the internet. Locals only bruddah!

    • I recommend the phpBB software, particularly if you're already thinking BBS.
  • Running a telnet BBS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheSpoom ( 715771 ) * <slashdot@@@uberm00...net> on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:29PM (#9426278) Homepage Journal
    If you're interested in running a truly oldschool BBS, check out Synchronet [synchro.net]. Free, good telnet BBS server.

    And if you don't run LORD, you should be shot.
    • I was thinking the same thing! SynchroNET rocks, and I'm glad there's still someone alive other than me that appreciated LORD. =) man, that was one hell of a game.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:29PM (#9426279)
    &$&#*&*@(#&@#*()&!#(*@!#&@#()@ !#
    NO CARRIER
  • Ideas (Score:5, Informative)

    by DraconPern ( 521756 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:30PM (#9426283) Homepage
    here's some ideas and software to make it work.

    First, for wireless connection management you can use the nocat wireless portal system (requires linux). That will allow you to advertise a wireless AP and have the users automatically redirected to your community site.

    For the actual site, I recommend phpnuke,postnuke or any of the content management software. They have lots of features hat will allow old style bbs functions like forums, gallery, pictures, files, etc. There are also modules that will do more.

    With nocat you have the option of adding an internet connection in the future. I suggest talking to a local cafe shop, they may already have an internet connection and may be interested in a project that attracts the surrounding community.
    • People keep saying "use nocat to redirect people to your site". This is overkill people! Nocat is cool, because it lets you log in and then get outside access. This isn't going to have outside access. With a linux router this would be as simple as typing:
      iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -s 10.0.0.0/8 -j DNAT --to
      and then on the webserver a simple mod_rewrite rule that rewrote every url with a different domain/ip to the front page of the correct domain.
  • Already been don (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:31PM (#9426290)
    Did you even bother with Google?

    Amateur (ham) packet radio networks have been doing exactly this since the early 1980s. They are designed to be independant of the Internet.

    Check out TAPR [tapr.org] for more information on that.

    Also, check out the Guerrilla Net [guerrilla.net] project by former L0pht members, which uses more modern hardware.
    • Amateur (ham) packet radio networks have been doing exactly this since the early 1980s. They are designed to be independant of the Internet.

      True, and packet networks [at least where I'm from] are just as dead as BBS's.
  • A couple of worries (Score:5, Informative)

    by Geoffreyerffoeg ( 729040 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:34PM (#9426311)
    You need to be careful if you're not providing outside access. First, you will still need to protect users against infections (just for liability, even though you didn't infect them and they should've protected themselves). It's as likely an infected Windows node will come inside your LAN as one would have found your network had it been on the Internet. And a malicious user could easily enter your network and begin attacking hosts.

    Preferably (if possible, this is theory), assign 10.n.x.2 addresses, with your router responding to 10.n.anything.1. Let n be constant for your network, but x be the number assigned to each user. Give a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. Thus you cannot reach another node without asking the router, who will of course deny; if you're blocking outside access, it should refuse to serve anything to 10.n.x.2 but 10.n.x.1. (If the request is on port 80, of course, explain the lack of outside access.)

    Second, when outside Internet access through wireless covers your area, you either need to (possibly negotiate with the provider to) provide access yourself, talk to the provider about making yourself just a node on his nettwork, or provide clear instructions on how to switch from your BBS to the other provider. (It should be just a matter of changing the channel.)
    • by sploo22 ( 748838 )
      Is it feasible to run a Linux box as an access point, and run Snort on it for portscan and worm alerts? I don't know about the details of promiscuous mode on wireless cards, but that seems like the most efficient solution to the first problem you mentioned.
  • University Campus (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:36PM (#9426317)
    I've thought of a setup kinda like this in the context of a college campus. As the school starts to take more control of their network, I've thought about a system which would use some kind of ad-hoc intranet (although I don't know much about ad-hoc networks) which wouldn't rely at all on the school's infrastructure. Even for simple activities like chat, I think it'd be cool (and harder to identify who's who.) Just an idea that came to me after spending some time on FreeNet at school...
    • Actually, I wanted desperately to do something similar [slashdot.org] my first year of college. The need for it became more apparent as the university kept tightening restrictions on our internet use. They definitely said you couldn't host your own servers, and eventually they blocked almost every port. I also saw the need need for an anonymous message board and filesharing, also... but I didn't see a single person outside with their laptops, ever. There were plenty of ethernet plugs around, but our campus' wifi setu
  • by gtoomey ( 528943 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:36PM (#9426320)
    There are lots of these "community wifi meshes" springing up in Australia. I have an wifi access point on my roof.

    But while it is not strictly connected to the internet, there is nothing stopping an individual connecting a rooftop access point to a router and then to a home DSL connection. You then create a VPN to the internet via community mesh. This allows you to log on to your own home DSL connection from any location that can access the wifi mesh.

    In Australia there is a country-wide IP assignment mechanism to eventually get continent-wide community wifi.

    • I read of a similar idea here on /. - the idea was to build a free net ontop of the existing network so as to avoid censorship/filtering etc.

      A collection of localized wifi networks interconnected via VPN would probably do the trick. The agreement would be not to provide an internet gateway - just gatways to other local nets. A certain level of trust would have to be established between purveyors of these nodes - like FIDOnet back in the day.

      FIDOnet is probably a good model for this - provided you wanted
  • Door games! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sitnaltax ( 178828 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:40PM (#9426342)
    Trade Wars, Land of Devastation, L.O.R.D... those were the days. Offering people something they can jump into with no prior social contacts--and a reason to keep coming back every day--I think, would still be a way to bring people in.

    Even though modem use is no longer an issue, a time limit every day keeps people coming back day after day.
  • If you have $$ to spend on this, Worldgroup (aka The Major BBS) is still sold and supported by Galacticomm [gcomm.com], Inc. (now owned by netVillage.com). Its more or less a one stop shop, including things like:

    Local & Internet E-mail
    Chat Rooms with shared White Boards
    Shared File Libraries
    Threaded Discussion Forums
    Customizable Surveys
    IRC Client
    FTP, Telnet, Finger, POP3, SMTP, NNTP
    WorldLink
    Built-in Web Server
    Huge library of add on software

    If you don't have money to spend, try Synchronet. Features are simmilar, though not nearly as mature:

    Local & Internet E-mail
    Chat Rooms with shared White Boards
    Shared File Libraries
    Threaded Discussion Forums
    Built in support for Fido, RIME and QWK!
    IRC Client
    FTP, Telnet, Finger, POP3, SMTP, NNTP
    Built-in Web Server in development
    Supports door games
    Open Source!!!

    Good luck!

  • One simple solution. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:53PM (#9426413) Homepage Journal

    Here's an idea -- set your system up as you normally would for acccessing the Internet, but simply setup your site such that posting and other interactive services are only accessable from within the local subnet.

    That is, if you have a (for example) /. like website, limit posting only to those people with IPs in your local subnet (ie: 10.x.x.x). People in the outside world will be able to read the posts, but you need to be inside the wireless range in order to be able to post.

    The big benifit of doing this is that frequent users will be able to keep up with discussions and such from home -- but if they want to contribute, they'll need to be within wireless range.

    Yaz.

  • nocatauth (Score:5, Informative)

    by rips123 ( 654488 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:55PM (#9426421)
    Check out NoCatAuth at http://nocat.net/ [nocat.net].

    This software provides an "Active Portal" which basically means any web traffic is redirected from wherever it was supposed to go to some specified machine.

    Its not a difficult thing to do manually either with iptables. (from memory its something like: iptables -T nat -I prerouting -P tcp -dport 80 -d ! localnet -j DNAT --dest localbox). Just make sure you have a DNS server running that sends all requests back to your IP or else their browser will give them an error.

    From there, you just set up and run apache on 'localbox' and you're off!

  • Linux / iptables (Score:3, Informative)

    by bobthemuse ( 574400 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @09:55PM (#9426429)
    Shouldn't be difficult to set up a local network, DHCP giving out non-routable addresses with gateway which points to your machine. Use iptables-based prerouting (or whatever your favorite firewall flavor is) to reroute all internet requests to your own server. You could run a second apache vhost on a different port, then configure the 404 error page to be the same as the index page. Set this to a general explanation of what this ssid is and what it can be used for, as well as a link to the real website. I suggest some kind of real-time java chat, in addition to the usual message boards. Would be cool to see who is in the area, introduce yourself, a way to break the ice before meeting. You could do all this with a single low-end box on the cheap. If you wanted to offer net access at the same time, configure the system as a proxy server (squid?) and have instructions for the common browsers on the intro page mentioned above. While users have to reconfigure slightly to use your site, they'll still have access and can check POP mail, etc. Otherwise they'll just favor any other access points in the area over yours.
  • It seems like a flashed Linksys access point [slashdot.org] could be turned into a (limited memory, but them's the breaks) BBS system ... probably would far exceed the original Community Memory Project's, pardon me, "memory." Now, a smart thing for some access point maker to add is a flash reader, or a USB port for a thumbdrive. (And probably, hopefully, someone will point to a perfect Soekris board ... however, those aren't available for $60 ... )

    timothy
  • Citadel BBS (Score:4, Interesting)

    by IGnatius T Foobar ( 4328 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @10:17PM (#9426543) Homepage Journal
    Without a doubt, nothing brings people together like a Citadel [citadel.org] system. Since it's focused on people and not file leeching, you get a stronger sense of community.

    What's more, modern Citadel systems give you telnet and web-based access, so the old-skool BBS'ers can have their 80x24 fun while the newbies can partake of the community from the comfort of their favorite browser. The e-mail system is built-in, sporting SMTP/POP/IMAP, and you get an instant messenger and a chat system completely integrated. It's a totally self-contained package that gives you the community-oriented site you're looking for.

    If you want to see one in action, just click on the BBS link in my signature. I've been doing this for 16 years and loving it. BBS's are not dead, by any means.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 14, 2004 @10:20PM (#9426558)
    I did this once. Set up a wireless access point, with no WEP, and generate lots of fake traffic on it, but don't connect the access point to the internet!. Attackers go nuts trying to figure out how you're blocking them from surfing the web or checking their email. Is it MAC filtering? VPN? Something strange they haven't seen before?

    Lots of fun!
  • Ile sans fil (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ninjaz ( 1202 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @10:22PM (#9426568)
    I had the opportunity to attend an excellent presentation about this subject at BSDCan [bsdcan.org]. The presentation was about Ile Sans Fil, a wireless community being developed in Montreal, Canada. They've got a website at http://www.ilesansfil.org/ [ilesansfil.org] with user documentation and a Wiki with all the technical details about getting it off the ground. (It defaults to French, but there's a switch to English link for those so inclined)

    Basically, what they are doing is getting coffee shops to pay a small fee to host the access points (running a custom Linux configuration), networking those, and offering both the internet connection on the coffee house's dime and building out their own BBS-like intranet service.

    Maybe the idea would be harder to get off the ground in other parts of the world, but if you can swing it, I think internet access is a big draw for people who otherwise may not bother.

  • by rufusdufus ( 450462 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @10:42PM (#9426660)
    Several posters have made glib comments about this idea being retro and unworthy.
    Let me tell you why I see this sort of grass-roots things as the wave of the future.

    First and formost, the primary feature of this system is that it has no recurring cost [well, assuming you are using solar]. Free is good.

    Next, there is no controlling authority with rules, regulations and contracts. You know that your rights are severely limited in the contract you signed with your internet provider right? Freedom is good.

    These intranet hotspots will be by definition local. They always talk about web communities, but they arent really. A bunch of anonymous jerks out trolling each other. This idea allows for locals to get together and be social. Community is good.

    This sort of setup has no agenda. No chinese shyster selling penis pills, no corporation telling you what to think.
    No agenda is good.

    The most interesting thing is the possibilities that arise from synergy with other hotspots and the internet itself. If the number of local hotspots becomes large, and they become ubiquitous, there will be bridges formed between them..again all free, expanding the social network in interesting ways. New cultures will arise from these interactions without the debilitating noise of too many voices.
    Culture is good.

    I envision in the future rather than wi-fi, we will see wi-max versions of this idea. The neat thing about this is that you will be able to bridge to internet via your home isp when you wish to, and still use of the local hotspot would be free.

  • Ham Radio enthusiasts have been enjoying wireless "BBS's" for a while now in the form of packet radio. Packet radio is essentially a DTMF modem that hooks up to your ham radio, allowing you to transmit data packets usually around 9600 bps, sometimes 19200. Due to the limited range of wireless transmission, these packet radio BBS's are for the geographically local. They have message boards, BBS email, etc etc just like the old days of the internet. Some even have internet gateways so you can send real e-
  • Can you setup the concept, use a bootable CD distro (Knoppix?), and then layer on a Mesh network (see Google) so that you can have a larger community?
  • Biggest problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheKubrix ( 585297 ) on Monday June 14, 2004 @10:52PM (#9426720) Homepage
    I think the biggest problem will not only be interest, but understanding. You're average user will be confused as to why this "network" doesn't have internet access. You have to remember that back in the BBS days, it was generally restricted to those who were not only in the know how, but could set it up (much easier to get internet access and surf the web). At any rate, good luck.
  • Hi, I used to participate in dialup BBS's back on my C=64 years ago. I really loved them (their design, colorful menus, file transfer sections, message boards, online games (god I miss Empire), voting booths, etc), however evolution took place -- the Internet was born. BBS's had their limits (most were run off of single phone lines), so one user at a time could dial up.

    BBS's were a means of communication back in the day when there was nothing else. It gave people a way to express their interests with
  • by Vthornheart ( 745224 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @12:16AM (#9427103)
    I ran a BBS on the Intranet in my College a few years ago (a quick shout to any residents of Keene State College!). Anyways, it's easy to do. Go to www.synchro.net, they have BBS software that works over Telnet... in other words, it's a BBS that works over TCP/IP instead of over direct modem to modem connection. Then use an IP forwarding service to point a domain name to your IP address on the **local** network. Then everyone on your network, and ONLY on your network, will be able to connect to the BBS.


    Oh, and if you want any of that old BBS software, it's still out there! A company named Metropolis now (unfortunately) owns the licenses for the classic game "Legend of the Red Dragon", so you'll have to buy it from them and not Seth Able. Most of the other ones have gone the way of abandonware... I tried to contact the authors of Usurper, Exitilus and so on... and none of them seem to have internet presence anymore. And if you were a Tradewars fan, it not only still exists but at one point they were going to make a new age MMORPG out of it!

  • few ideas.. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by naelurec ( 552384 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @12:55AM (#9427227) Homepage
    First, BBS software is dead.. don't even think about attempting a telnet based sychronet, wwiv, or whatever other old bbs software you can find. I use to run a BBS, was very active 1990-1994ish in the BBS "scene" and I wouldn't even bother getting into something like this -- much less someone who never used a BBS before.

    Second, use Internet technologies -- DHCP, DNS, HTTP, etc.. its around, its free, its mature and generally speaking, pretty easy to setup in an intranet setup.

    Third, focus on your advantages: #1 known demographic (same region) and #2 highspeed access (802.11B and higher .. right?) --->

    So you get lots of people together that have high speed versus broadband/dialup to the larger internet .. this says lots of high-bandwidth content.. Great way to get people interested? perhaps video personals.. I think for many, it would spark some interest in atleast checking out the system.

    Other content would be the local scene news -- where bands are playing, upcoming events, yada yada .. perhaps get some of the local radio stations involved (streaming their content over the network? perhaps some free publicity as well), web cams galore (its fun), discussion forums, etc..

    Ultimately there *NEEDS* to be enough huge-bandwidth offerings to make people want to use the system.. too much of this same content is already available in the much more easily accessible Internet..
    • How about Game servers?
      Random Chat servers?
      A matchmaking service?
      Open Source programs for download? OpenOffice, Linux ISOs
      Legal MP3s from local artists?
      Legal Streaming videos from local artists?

      A streaming radio station that you could put requests on.
      Community events are always good.

      Your might want to get a little fancy and have a netconnect that the users can not get to but you can so you could ssh or even use RSS for news feeds and weather.
      Get the local clubs, cafe's, and shops to pitch in with some loc
  • Setting up open wireless networks that don't connect to the Internet is somewhat anti-social: people may get confused about their network settings or their laptops may connect to the first available network (yours) and then not be able to get out.

    If you want a geographic community, why not just give out access cards with a password in person at your place? That way, your population will be local, but you can use a more standard setup. And when your local friend travel, they can still check in over the In
  • by Frightened_Turtle ( 592418 ) on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @07:53AM (#9428499) Homepage

    Someone set up something similar in South Station in Boston. It's described as a WiFi Bubble, and supplies information about South Station, vendors in the station, and gives you the opportunity to win a magic fortune fish!

    Any requests to web pages outside the bubble only result in being served the bubble index page. It's a nice demonstration of what you can do with an old iMac and an Airport [apple.com]. The administrator gives some information on how it was set up, but the page is only available inside the bubble.

    Nonetheless, it can be done! And if you're lucky, maybe you'll get a magic fortune fish! (Ooo! Curls up on both ends- I'm passionate! Woo! Hoo!)

  • Except what I was thinking about were networks like the one you describe that could discover and connect to one another. Sort of a spontaneous mini-Internet, but not connected to the outside Internet.

    Couldn't figure out how to build it in such a way that the networks could connect to one another and exchange information but keep it from being connected to the outside.

    Interesting idea, though. And I think in the right places they could be very effective. College campus comes to mind. A neighborhood ne

  • Compelling content (Score:3, Insightful)

    by merlin_jim ( 302773 ) <James@McCracken.stratapult@com> on Tuesday June 15, 2004 @08:25AM (#9428788)
    will be your success or demise.

    May I suggest:

    Offering free hosting for local artists. Kind of a community portfolio. Even better if you find someone with edgy or risque work.

    Offering free hosting for local underground musicians. Include an "internet" radio station that broadcasts their content. Hell, even hook it up to the internet if you want. Most internet radio stations will let you setup playlists, so it doesn't have to be manned 24/7. I would even suggest putting the DJ "booth" live in one of the cafes for use by anyone walking by. Dyne:Bolic (www.dyne.org), a Mini ITX motherboard and case (mini-itx.org), and a CD drive is all you need...

    Definitely get community games in there; they will drive your early adopters, who will in turn drive your widespread adoption.

    Get a community sponsor to offer some monthly "door prizes"... a free coffee at the local coffee shop, family bowling, 50% off one title at the game store... for that matter, a local LAN gaming facility might be interested in co-sponsoring the whole thing in exchange for high visibility advertising in their target community...

  • your idea might be usefull for a few people, but it will be a novelty for most. once they see what you have to offer, they'll just gripe about not being able to get to slashdot.org
  • Ok... What you are asking for is not going to exist in a HOWTO but I'll try to give you some technical bits to get you on the right track.

    Think router. You are basically going to setup a Wireless Access Point bridged and open and with a linux box handling all the low level routing.

    I actually spec'd some of this for a new ISP startup. While I grant I never set it up (they were having money woes and other issues) I've worked for 3 ISPs so I think this is good advice, but like all advice... well.. it's free

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