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Hardware

More Cringley on Linux Embedded Hardware Hacking 90

Posted by CmdrTaco from the get-your-hack-on dept.
enrico_suave writes "I , Cringley on Linux hardware hacking (the good kind). Some neat points on what enterprising individuals are doing with Hauppauge MediaMVP streaming content settop box/client thingie." The story is mostly about Micro ISPs, including a few choice digs on Slashdot readers.
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More Cringley on Linux Embedded Hardware Hacking More

More Cringley on Linux Embedded Hardware Hacking

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  • Why? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:37PM (#9350998)
    ...does every single Cringely article make front page lately??

    • Because.... (Score:4, Funny)

      by IcEMaN252 ( 579647 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:41PM (#9351025) Homepage
      ...nobody RTFAs anyways, and we think its cool to talk about cheap Linux boxes?

    • Re:Why? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I, Dunno.

      • Re:Why? (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Offtopic? No, no.. like "I, Cringley". Get it?

        Man, if only the "preview" feature featured a cool-o-meter or confuse-o-meter to warn me before I posted. Then the post would never have existed, and it wouldn't have possibly been off-topic.

        If only I were posting the message via a hacked MediaMVP box. Then I'd be on-topic.

        If only the "subject" text field were labeled "topic", and my cursor was placed over that field. Then I'd be on-topic.

        But I digress... :-)

  • Good use of resources (Score:5, Interesting)

    by caffeinefiend ( 681092 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:40PM (#9351019)
    I must say, I am impressed by the Hauppauge device. It has really good functionality and a not-too-bad price tag. These exploits are really pretty interesting, and I am surprised that it took so long for them to become mainstream. I figure that it is only a matter of time before people start building specialized devices like the Hauppauge. Overall, this is one of those nifty hacks that I love.
    • If you have one of these boxes, maybe you can answer this:

      OK, it's got a 300 MHz PowerPC. Does it have a BDM or JTAG port, or a monitor in ROM? In other words, when I accidentally scrag the firmware in flash, is it a brick now or is there a recovery path to get it bootable again?
      • The web knows everything. [shspvr.com]

        Looks like it just has tftp/bootp in ROM, so it can't run standalone. But at least that also means it's real easy to recover if you screw up!
        It would be insanely great to get GDB set up to attach remote processes running on the MVP.

    • Still violating GPL? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by h2odragon ( 6908 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:31PM (#9351307) Homepage
      The BusyBox Hall of Shame [busybox.net] lists this device as one of several that is violating the GPL in using BusyBox, and presumably other packages too. Anyone know if Hauppauge is actually doing anything about it?

      • Re:Still violating GPL? (Score:5, Informative)

        by Alnitak73 ( 739151 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @06:25PM (#9352828) Homepage

        AFAIK, Hauppauge are now complying correctly, they've got the relevant Busybox sources, and also the kernel sources online.

        What's not available are the sources to the IBM proprietary kernel modules for the STB25xx processor's hardware features, nor the client program that runs on the MVP once it's booted.

        However some enterprising individuals have managed to figure out most all of the ioctl(2) interfaces to those modules, and also developed native player software that doesn't depend on the HCW supplied windows server software.

        Personally, I've got a couple of these now, using the mediamvp plugin for VDR (the Linux DVB PVR system) to get both live and recorded digital TV distributed around the house.

        The best link I know of for discussions on using Linux on the MediaMVP are the forums at http://www.shspvr.com/forum/ [shspvr.com]

  • WRT54G on sale ($56.50 or $66.50) at Amazon (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:40PM (#9351020)
    The famed router seems to be (unless I'm missing something) on sale for $66.49 at Amazon.com, and a $10 rebate is available as well, taking it down to about $56.49. Free shipping.

    Pretty cool price considering most of your other options.

    • Re:WRT54G on sale ($56.50 or $66.50) at Amazon (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      WRT54G with the WPC54G wireless card is quite buggy, expect random wireless disconnects and problems all the time no matter what driver/firmware combo you use. Linksys has still not fixed this problem.

  • Wow (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:40PM (#9351022)
    Is that his picture? Bloggers keep getting younger and younger. How long until we get the first fetus weblog?

  • But wait a sec... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jwcorder ( 776512 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:52PM (#9351090)
    If I am going to pay 80 bucks for the Hauppage device, I might as well pay 20 more and get another TIVO. Or for 109 bucks, you can get a refurbished Xbox. Little hacking on it, and you have the perfect media center PC.

    I am not discrediting the Hauppage device as it sounds really cool. But for 80 bucks I think I would compare the other devices in this category and find a better alternative. IMO that is.

    • Re:But wait a sec... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:04PM (#9351160)
      Effort is the thing. XBox needs a HW hack, Tivo needs a subscription. MediaMVP needs little effort, and a PC makes a better Tivo anyways (web admin rocks). And I can fit a pantload more storage in a tower than I can in a Tivo or an XBox.

      • ...XBox needs a HW hack...

        no it doesn't, unless you consider cutting and soldering two cables together a hardware hack. the most effort i expended for the buffer overflow hack was locating a compatible usb flash stick.

        it was trivial to network xebian into my NAT server and set up ssh. i need to read up on network media streaming though. and a nice NTSC friendly interface/desktop would be nice. jeeze, what do i want for free? and i still can attempt to beat my grandkids at spongebob saves bikini bott

    • " If I am going to pay 80 bucks for the Hauppage device, I might as well pay 20 more and get another TIVO. Or for 109 bucks, you can get a refurbished Xbox. Little hacking on it, and you have the perfect media center PC.

      I am not discrediting the Hauppage device as it sounds really cool. But for 80 bucks I think I would compare the other devices in this category and find a better alternative. IMO that is."

      ah.... but the rub there is the 13 beans a month (or 300 beans for lifetime of the "unit" subscription
    • If I am going to pay 80 bucks for the Hauppage device, I might as well pay 20 more and get another TIVO. Or for 109 bucks, you can get a refurbished Xbox. Little hacking on it, and you have the perfect media center PC.

      Tivo and Xbox are not even close to the same device. Your comparing apples to wart removal cream. The tivo actually encodes video and serves it up for you to watch later. With a good amount of effort (no it's not easy and there are at least 4 truly ugly gotchas) you can convert an Xbox int
    • The person who wants this device doesn't want another TIVO. I want one TIVO (or a PC, it doesn't matter) collecting the programs in one location and several remote play back units, one at each TV. That way I can watch what ever program I am currently interested in at what ever location I am currently at. So can the rest of my family.

      I currently have a DirecTV TIVO and a little unit that sends the output to a remote location. It works great as long as we don't want to watch one program upstairs and a differ

  • Hauppauge MVP encoding? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SendBot ( 29932 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:54PM (#9351099) Homepage Journal
    From the article:

    "... the MVP is attracting attention from people who want to alter its firmware.

    This is a very different device from the wireless router. For one thing, it has hardware MPEG video encoding and decoding."

    There's no mention of video encoding on the official product site. Is this an error, or is there a hack that allows for it?
  • I did some Google searches, but didn't turn up any 'hacked' firmware options for the MediaMVP. Can anyone suggest any links?

    Does the MediaMVP support streaming of DVD VOB files from a file server?

  • MediaMVP - Video Encoding? (Score:5, Informative)

    by tji ( 74570 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:03PM (#9351152)
    In the Cringely article, he mentions:
    For one thing, it has hardware MPEG video encoding and decoding

    I don't think this is correct. According the the Happauge site, the MediaMVP has hardware decoding, but does no encoding (it doesn't even have audio/video inputs, only outputs). They only talk about acquiring video in the context of their WinTV products, some of which have hardware MPEG2 encoders.

    It still looks like a cool device for SDTV use. But, I am waiting for one that supports at least component 480P output (preferably 720P or 1080i) and digital audio output for DD5.1 support.

  • I'd like to point out (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ProudClod ( 752352 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:04PM (#9351159)
    that some companies get away with using GPL code illegally in their hardware projects.

    See BusyBox's hall of shame here:

    http://www.busybox.net/shame.html

    May I suggest that we at /. give these companies a little trouble. Seems like an open and shut case to me.

  • s/Cringely/Eugenia/g (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Gothmolly ( 148874 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:21PM (#9351255)
    Why does this "Cringely" fellow make any kind of news? Is he a producer of code, or hardware, or is he merely a Talking Head that PHBs can quote? In other words, why do we care what he says?

    • Straight from his site (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:28PM (#9351287)
      "On Why You Should Pay Any Attention to Him

      When it comes to information technology, I know what I am talking about. Twenty years in and around the PC business have earned me wisdom, if not wealth. It's not that I am so smart, but that my friends are smart. The best and brightest in Silicon Valley talk to me all the time. It's my job to sift through their thoughts for valuable bits to share with you. But wait, if I am so great, why is this service free? Good question! Maybe it's time to renegotiate my contract with PBS."

      He's a sort of consultant/analyst person who appears on TV shows, writes books and more.
      • How can I become a pundit like Cringely or Enderle? Unlike either one of them I've spec'd, built and maintained large, uptime critical systems in high intensity environments. The stuff I was responsible for came in on time, on budget and worked.

        Of course the same could be said for thousands of /. readers who log in here every day. What do I have to do so I can stop working and start being a technopundit? Do I need to have an extra Chutpah organ inserted into my chest? Executive level hair? Immune system t

      • Didn't Cringely work for Apple? IIRC, Cringely mentioned, in his first documentary, that he was one of the first employees for Apple. Certainly he's no Steve Wozniak, but he's a better talking head that most of these glorified armchair pundits.

    • And why does he have a picture of an ugly baby on his page.

      Like many parents he seems so proud that he can even reproduce.
      • Read this article [pbs.org] and maybe you'll see why he is so excited. Speaking as a father and someone who has followed Cringely's columns for awhile, I am glad to hear he now has a second chance at fatherhood.

        I can't imagine losing one of my babies...

    • Re:s/Cringely/Eugenia/g (Score:4, Informative)

      by blakestah ( 91866 ) <blakestah@gmail.com> on Monday June 07, 2004 @12:32AM (#9354315) Homepage
      Cringely has been a long long long-time column writer for PBS. Back in the day, he was a nobody.

      Then he did this movie, called Triumph of the Nerds [pbs.org], about Microsoft and Apple's foundings. You see, back then, he was still a tech writer, and he met with Apple in their garage, and knew Bill Gates when he wasn't worth much. He tracks them and personal computer's rise.

      He is quite interested to technophiles, and that is a columnist's job. He gets people interested, reading, and writing about his ideas. He's probably the best technical writer around (I certainly think so - I started reading him around when the nerds movie came out).

      If you haven't seen the movie, you may find it interesting, and free on PBS.

  • Not to be an asshole.... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    But his name is wrong in the headline... :)

  • Techno Utopianism (Score:3, Insightful)

    by crush ( 19364 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @02:24PM (#9351563)
    So Cringely thinks the city of SF is going to start handing out pocket pcs to homeless people?! Right! Homeless people have a hard enough time finding accomodation (and yes, some homeless people would rather be on the street than in "dry" hostels, but there's a significant number that would welcome free, clean accomodation). Central point: given the stretched budgets of cities and states due to the huge Bush tax cuts for the wealthy there won't be a techno utopia any time soon. Comfy speculations from people in silicon towers cheapen the discussion of interesting technologies.
    • Hostels are *not* homeless shelters, which I'm assuming you must have ment. Not trying to be a smart ass, I've worked at one (in multiple capacities) for years and this is a common misconception (unless you consider european student/vagabonds travelling abroad homeless..I guess that would do ;)).
    • Christ, the last fucking thing the city of San Francisco needs to do is encourage more homeless people to move to the city by handing out free WiFi access. Of course since most of the homeless are insane or fucked up on drugs the first thing that will happen to their PocketPC is that it will be stolen, lost or sold for a hit of meth or crack.

      • I can understand your point of view having seen the Embarcadero or whatever the end of Market St. near the ferry terminal is called. I also suspect that WiFi access is not a pressing need and that like you say the PocketPC will be a stealable commodity. The whole "plan" is just goofball. If there is effort/money to be expended it should be directed towards loads more social workers and accomodation.
        • But San Francisco is all about utopias... Decades of the Federal Government being the city's main employer left those people with much stranger ideas of what is possible, and what's desirable.
    • My top problems with his used pocket pc idea:
      - Lithion Ion batteries are used in these types of PDAs, meaning they would need either some place to get free power, or a mod of some type to use regular batteries. Either way, I doubt they could afford them on their own

      - Second prong of the previous problem; lithium ion batteries have a limited lifetime. Who's going to pay for replacement batteries?

      - You need to sync a pocket pc somewhere every once in a while to back up information (like phone numbers, pho

  • Avoid the MVP, just misses the mark. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Pinback ( 80041 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @02:24PM (#9351569) Homepage Journal
    I have an MVP, and I wouldn't reccomend them. If Hauppage had used a CPU one model farther up the product line, they'd have AC3 decode.

    The evening I figured out that all my MPEGs with AC3 audio weren't going to produce audio, I was very unhappy.

    The video looked great, and people have even put together software to allow serving files from Linux, but without audio, its a waste.

    Pinback
    • *shrug*

      some enterprising folks in shs's forum [shspvr.com] have a pass through working (looks like anyhow). It's probably not for the feint of heart though =)

      It's not the processor speed, but probablly licensing/DMCA like buggery that the MVP doesn't do AC3 *shrug* but I could be off base on that...

      Soo are you selling yours? =)
  • But there's something absurd about using an obfuscated interface on an embedded device to allow it to boot linux -- but only from a Windows host.

    obligatory: beowulf cluster of all your STB belong to us - Darl.

    • There's nothing that obsucated about it!

      The boot process is just DHCP/TFTP, although the window's DHCP server uses a non-standard port. However the boot-loader in the MediaMVP supports both that port and the standard DHCP port, anyway.

      Mine boot just fine from ISC dhcpd off my Linux box, you just need to set the TFTP filename to the "dongle.bin" file extracted from the software installer on the HCW site.

  • FYI (Score:2, Interesting)

    by trainsnpep ( 608418 )
    It's pronounced Hophog. A lot of towns (here) on Long Island have Native American names....

    - Mike
  • Some new wireless routers shown at Computex Taipei:
    Gen-WAN [etmag.com]
    OvisLink [ovislink.com.tw]
    Well Communication [wellgroups.com]
    Xavi [xavi.com.tw]
    Minitar [minitar.com]
    WebPro [webpro.com.tw]
    SENAO [senao.com]
    Amigo [amigo.com.tw]

  • Dig! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eltoyoboyo ( 750015 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:23PM (#9353864) Journal
    While the Slashdot crowd argued about what is or isn't technically or legally possible,

    He's right, the revolution will not be slashdotted...
  • Throw a wireless router in every Chinese Internet café and you'd bring phone service and Internet to hundreds of thousands of people practically overnight.

    Except all I hear about is the Chinese *closing* Internet cafes as a threat to their system of domination.

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