HP to Globally Launch Linux-Based PCs 422
Rade T. writes "Reuters UK reports that HP, the No. 1 personal computer and computer printer maker, said on Wednesday that its putting its weight behind personal computers that run the Linux operating system. I guess this is the first serious step towards solving the problems that Linux faces on the Desktop/Laptop."
$699 each (Score:5, Funny)
Re:$699 each (Score:2)
Re:$699 each (Score:4, Funny)
Big Win for SuSE (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Big Win for SuSE (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think Microsoft is going to be doing a lot of crying in their beer. They might be looking over their shoulder, and they might like it to be otherwise, but the end result will be nominal at least in the near term.
Re:Big Win for SuSE (Score:2)
Then again.. (Score:3, Insightful)
All the blahblah around it is written in a word processor,
Ehm yeah right. Read up on MS history (Score:5, Insightful)
But slowly the idea started to emerge that not everyone needed the full power of a mainframe setup. Cheap simple extremely limited machines started to appear wich could do a few tasks but that was all they needed to do. These machines where DOS and later Windows machines.
Now linux is doing the same. Sure Linux does not have the same capacity yet as a windows machine but windows did not have the same capacity as a mainframe. The question is does it do what is required well enough?
There is a difference. Dos/Windows got in through the lowend single purpose workstation. Linux is going in at all angles. High end server, middle file/printer server, lowend single purpose workstation, specialized appliance (firewall).
MS is scared. HP selling linux as an option is not something MS wants to see.
Re:Ehm yeah right. Read up on MS history (Score:3, Interesting)
You're right, we just don't have that BSOD trick down like Windows does, probably never will :-)
Seriously, though, that statement needs some qualification and narrowing. The question "Same capacity for what?" will help.
Yes, there are some areas where Linux lags quite a bit behind Windows. The most significant of these are, in my opinion:
Re:Big Win for SuSE (Score:3, Interesting)
In other news, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news, (Score:5, Funny)
...when? (Score:4, Interesting)
(PS: does this mean I can buy a laptop w/ SuSE preloaded on it now, here in the US? Or does that global thing mean what most "global" corporate initiatives do - "everywhere outside of the US")?
Re:...when? (Score:3, Insightful)
Buy (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Buy (Score:2)
Re:Buy (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know anything about how HP markets its computers, but I do know that with Dell, the categories of "Home/Home Office/Small Business/Enterprise" are basically just suggestions. You can go to their website and order from any category. They just put together default packages that make more sense for di
Re:Buy (Score:3, Informative)
Hp
Re:Buy (Score:5, Informative)
The Slashdot story was, unsurprisingly, misleading.
In the article (or this press release [hp.com]) I've seen absolutely no mention that they'd be selling the PC's to the masses, only to enterprise customers.
A few snippets from the press release (emphasis mine):
It seemed almost too good to be true... and so it probably was.
It's about time... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's about time... (Score:2)
Re:It's about time... (Score:3, Informative)
Jason
Linux can run more stuff that this... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Linux can run more stuff that this... (Score:3, Informative)
WINE also ran the company's internal custom Windows applications without so much as a hitch. If we hadn't had that printing trouble with Bloated Goats, I probably could have convinced the execs to migrate to Linux and cost Microsoft a few thousand li
Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:3, Interesting)
Even Reuters seems to be falling for SCOs crap.
Sigh.
Re:Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:2, Informative)
Don't forget how much money you have to spend to be able to say 'based on unix'.
Didn't apple get in trouble over that not so long ago?
Dan
Re:Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:2, Informative)
at news dot com dot com [com.com].
Re:Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:5, Insightful)
I like #4, "The fundamental principle or underlying concept of a system or theory; a basis"
Linux is quite similar to Unix in terms of its higher level command set (ie what a user types in to a console to say... list the contents of a directory). By building a system which is functionally similar to an existing system, you help to ease the transition from one to the other, you base your new work on old.
Another example of this would be XPde, tell me it isn't in some way based on the Windows XP GUI, I highly doubt a single line of code was copied from Windows XP into XPde.
Re:Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:2, Insightful)
Just because the two things operate, or appear similar on the surface does not infer that one is based on the other or vice-versa - it simple means that both operate using similar principles.
Linux isn't Unix Based [com.com], it just happens to work like it. And by the way, it is mostly GNU tools that work like Unix!
Re:Reuters Buying the SCO line? (Score:2)
Gee why are all the command line commands interchangeable?
Why is this going to be different than Dell (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why is this going to be different than Dell (Score:5, Interesting)
Dell's attempt was worthless and self defeating.
Re:Why is this going to be different than Dell (Score:2)
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I'm not getting excited about this until it's clear that HP is accomplishing anything meaningful.
Re:Why is this going to be different than Dell (Score:2)
Re:Why is this going to be different than Dell (Score:2)
1) Dell got slapped down by Microsoft, which probably wouldn't happen now.
2) Dell's attempt was half-hearted.
3) It was quite a long time ago. Linux has improved considerably since then.
Re:Why is this going to be different than Dell (Score:3, Informative)
Dell's attempt was half-hearted.
On the desktop, to be sure.
Dell has been doing a pretty good business selling Linux servers though, as has HP and IBM.
The late 1990's Linux desktop fad as a business was premature and the market was not thought out well.
The initial Linux desktop market is technical, engineering, DCC, universities.
And, some limited special purpose kiosk use.
Application interoperability with MS file formats, templates, fonts, hardware compatibility had to improve substantially before yo
Support issues (Score:2, Interesting)
Cheaper with Linux . . . or not? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cheaper with Linux . . . or not? (Score:2)
You relize were only talking about 20 bucks or so, right?
Re:Cheaper with Linux . . . or not? (Score:2, Interesting)
Longer answer: If the cost is the same for a M$ system and a Linux system, the economic value of Linux will be at least to some part exploited by the hardware vendor. Perhaps with shrinking margins in the hardware business this is at least some of the appeal of Linux systems to hardware vendors. I have no idea whether Linux systems are normally cheaper than their Windows counterparts, but I think that it is interesting to determine where along the hardware syste
Re:Cheaper with Linux . . . or not? (Score:2)
Not to mention, I have no Idea if there partnering with another company. Lets say they partnered with Red Hat, then a certian fee will be going to Red Hat. I would wager it would be pretty close to the same fee as MS. What else are you going to do? pay a team of people to burn CD's all day?
I see your point, and if resellere were charged the same for XP as th
Re:Cheaper with Linux . . . or not? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Cheaper with Linux . . . or not? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have worked with Windows since 2.0 (yes, you read that right). I've installed (and re-installed, and re-installed...) it on hundreds of computers -- for friends and family, not as my job! I've purchased several copies of Windows for our business -- not by choice, but because necessary software has required it.
Microsoft has had literally hundreds of chances to "win me over", by just giving a *shit*, JUST ONCE, about my experience. But, they don't even know I exist. So, I've used Linux since 1995. Through all the growing pains (ever installed Slackware from 36 floppies?). Through the infancy and adolesence of Open Office, KDE, Mozilla. Through the busted device drivers, developed by dedicated developers blindfolded by the hardware manufactures they are working to enrich -- who, in turn, are slobbering after Microsoft.
How many other people are willing to put up with just about ANY amount of annoyance, just to get some option OTHER THAN Microsoft? I'll bet there are a LOT of such people.
If Microsoft can't make Billions AND give a crap about their clientelle, then they deserve to get the crap kicked out of them by Linux. It's not a question of if, but when.
Good stuff, hardware vendors take note (Score:5, Interesting)
The cynic speaks... (Score:4, Interesting)
What about HP? HP-UX is dying, they need to jump on something.
Red Hat will help push Linux to desktops. HP is wandering in the woods.
Windows dominance is already threatened by Linux existence. Keeping that threat manageable is the key to Windows survival.
Re:The cynic speaks... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you ever read any article on
Time to mature (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a shame that the Asian market gets it first (for selfish reasons), I would like to see a fully functioning Novell/Suse desktop (the people at the Brain Share "show" are getting a sneak peek now).
Novell's press release (Score:5, Insightful)
Can Novell please get a
I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:5, Insightful)
ipod open standard? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:ipod open standard? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ipod open standard? (Score:2)
The iPod can alsp play mp3s. Mp3 is an open standard. AAC is an open standard. iTunes supports the iPod. MusicMatch Jukebox also supports the iPod. iTunes is available on Mac and PC.
Dumbass.
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:2)
But isn't Microsoft a monopoly? I thought monopolies kept the competition from the market?
Gee, wonder what people would say if it turned out Microsoft never was a monopoly...
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:5, Interesting)
Gee, wonder what people would say if it turned out Microsoft never was a monopoly...
[begin antitrust 101 lecture]
A monopoly is a company that dominates a market. There are natural monopolies, and they are legal. It is not legal to leverage legally-gained monopoly power to "enforce" your monopoly on others (by keeping competition out of the market) or to gain monopoly power in other markets.
Microsoft dominates the desktop market. They are now seeing some competition entering. Since it is illegal for them to use their monopoly power to smack down the competition, they'll have to just try to provide a more attractive product. This is not something they are used to doing. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:2)
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:5, Interesting)
Before I get modded down or flamed for writing this, I think it would be the sanest thing for HP to put forward a rational suggestion to Apple for them to license the Mac platform to HP. And here is my reasoning:
1. Longhorn is in developmental hell. The more setbacks Microsoft suffers PR wise regarding security issues and the more applications like iTunes shows up Microsoft developed "solutions", the more PC manufacturers dependent upon Windows suffer. On the other hand, OS X keeps improving, and even the hardest Apple basher on Slashdot has to admit this begrudgingly.
2. The Media Center PC experiment is not prime-time yet. And its only a matter of time before TiVo throws down the gauntlet at Microsoft on IP violations just as its done to Echostar (DishNetwork).
3. As long as Dell is Microsoft's preferred vendor, HP is going to come up on the short end.
4. Linux is not prime-time for Joe Six-Pack. Even the great Mandrake distribution suffers from the same problem as do all other Linux distributions...the availability of known game releases and consumer friendly titles on the store shelf.
Now compare that to the OS X platform.
If HP jumped in and became the SOLE Mac hardware and software licensee, this is what would happen:
1. Component prices would fall for the Mac side of the business, thereby improving both Apple and HP's costs.
2. Consumers gun-shy about buying a Mac over a PC would evaporate because it is no longer locked to a single vendor.
3. The demographic for HP consumer customers is not generally the same as an Apple customer. So there is not a large chance of Apple actually suffering from defections. If anything, Apple would be sure to gain marketshare because HP would legitimize the OS X platform for corporate America.
4. Even if HP did "steal" some Apple customers, Apple would still have a bigger chance at grabbing them with value-added purchases like
5. HP's Unix team could directly contribute to OS X. Its not like HP would be a disaster of a "cloner" like what Dell would be. Well, maybe after all the SCO mess is cleared up to be on the safe side.
Of course, HP would have to overcome their reluctance of purchasing microprocessors from IBM (maybe part of the deal would be that IBM had to license the G5 line to Motorola). Apple would have to overcome their licensing reluctance and actually sit down and analyze the fact that HP is no Umax or Power Computing. Apple has come a long ways with the iPod licensing; I would hope they could do they same here.
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, take into account what you have used to base your arguments. Are HP laptops cheaper than Mac laptops? Yes. On a pure MHZ/GHZ scale, they are. Why is this? Because Intel/AMD chips are generally cheaper because of volume.
If HP and Apple were both procuring the same resources together, that being PPC chips, they would drop in price. Apple would actually increase their profits per machine sold because their costs would be reduced.
Furthermore, you yourself said you purchased an iBook strictly because of OS X. You are a switcher; you aren't Apple's bread-and-butter-continuously-upgrading-to-the-ne
Besides, if they can do a focused license with HP on the iPod, which they generate the largest profit margin from (38% per unit sold) than from any other item in their arsenal, then it would not be a losing proposition to do a limited license with HP.
And, I bring this up again...HP could help with the developmental cost of OS X. That is why my suggestion is not damaging to Apple like the typical "cloning" suggestion most people make, ala what happened with Power Computing and Umax, no name companies that competed with Apple for the very same customers.
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:3, Funny)
Do people read the posts before replying to them on Slashdot?
Judging by your user number, you're relatively new around here, so we forgive you for asking. But really, next thing you'll be asking if people read the linked articles.
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:2)
Re:I wonder what microsoft thinks of all this (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not totally insensitive here; I'm in the same boat too, but you have to be realistic and see the direction the world economy is headed. Just because these guys in India weren't born in Kentucky doesn't mean they deserve the job any less. If you work for someone else, you're always going to be subject to their rules. Learn to deal with it or work for yourself.
What model? What features? What price? (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe JDS will get a run for its money (Score:2, Insightful)
Ease-of-Use vs. Linux Service Business Model (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps profits-from-hardware will supplant profits-from-service as the OSS business model. Why buy support if the system is so easy-to-use that it does not need support? At the very least, service revenues will be inversely proportional to ease-of-use.
Puzzeling... (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of us, who already use Linux on desktop on a regular basis, consider ourselfs power-users. One of the reasons I use Linux (well... KDE
It would seem we have little in common with these new Linux users.
Re:Puzzeling... (Score:2, Insightful)
Power users can usually look after themselves. Light-weight users do not tinker much with the PC and use a limited set of applications, so these would be the easiest to target for HP and the like. Middle weight Windows users are really the hardest group. They have specific Windows hardware or software for which a Linux solution is not always available.
HP supporting Novell's Effort (Score:3, Insightful)
And then I read the article, HP is *supporting* Novell in their efforts to ...
Love the spin on the intro. Was this an HP marketing guy who submitted the story?
Forget world tours, show us the drivers (Score:5, Insightful)
Conspiracy! (Score:3, Funny)
I'm ready! (Score:2, Interesting)
This is not as good as you might think (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the vendor lockin story all over *again*. I have no doubt that they will try to approach the desktop market in the same way. At least until HP proves me wrong and announces support for the linux *kernel* and promises at least a best effort policy on the different distros.
Now this is just my experience with HP, a talk with IBM went much smoother and their bladeservers are already on their way, just have to install debian on them and I'm all set. (yay! got to mention debian afterall!)
Re:This is not as good as you might think (Score:5, Insightful)
What you _can_ reasonably suspect is that they will officially support a select few distributions that have special relationships with the company, to ship drivers that work with those distribtions, and finally *release specs* to their hardware and the source to their distro-specific drivers. That way, other distributions have all the information they need to get their systems to work with HP's hardware if they desire it. That is far more reasonable that what you propose.
Re:This is not as good as you might think (Score:3, Insightful)
If HP decides to offer the same box with Linux from the start, that is good news, even if we decide to put another Linux distro on there. That's bec
Sadly (Score:2)
Re:Sadly (Score:2)
I can solve that issue (Score:3, Funny)
Any SCO(x) i.e. litigious bastards reactions? (Score:3, Interesting)
I mean, why should HP be left out of the ``big companies getting sued by SCO'' list. It'll soon get to be a club kind of thing.
Or has HP cut a deal with SCO? In which case their linux-based products should be anathema.
Just wondering if anyone has heard anything.
hp will be the next guys raided by the BSA (Score:3, Funny)
Red Bull Busted By the BSA
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/g
The nerve messing with the beer...
No trolls please (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux is not ready for "12 year old John gets a Linux CD and installs and is ready to go", nor is the support out there for Mom and Pop to click "DOWNLOAD ME" on a website and be up and going.
That said, for the corporate environment, Linux is perfect. It can be pre-configured and mirrored in a sysadmin's sleep, locked down to kill almost all support problems, and managed remotely with little effort. The applications, for the vast part, work almost exactly the same as their Windows counterparts and as such training costs are minimal.
Notice a pattern? The limitation of Linux is ease of administration and software/hardware support. Any place where Joe User is wanting to download and install a program from his favorite news website or Jane User wants to reinstall the OS, Linux is not 'ready' for casual use. But in a controlled environment, like a company where hardware and software falls under the umbrella of IT, these issues don't pose a problem.
As long as a company can find the applications they need to do their work (or start/join an OSS project and complete their own), Linux is pie on the desktop and has many benefits most companies would die for, once realized. Once you've got a Linux friendly IT department and have found the right apps, limitations are few and far between.
Once corporations adopt Linux, support problems will diminish, and once workers take it home, support problems will all but disappear. The snowball will feed itself.
Lack of lock-in, lack of security issues, lack of luser-stupidity-blew-everything-up scenarios and lack of licensing and upgrade costs are huge in the terms of $$$.
Cheers
Sun doing the same thing (Score:4, Informative)
Sun Java OS PC's [walmart.com]
$300 for a "complete" 1.6Ghz Duron system isn't too bad...
Cheap computer, expensive replacement keystrokes (Score:5, Funny)
The HP News Release (Score:4, Informative)
Stupid OT rant.. (Score:2)
That is not a recipe for pending [consumber] desktop dominance.
Now to go completely OT when are we going to LOSE TUX. He's cute, in sort of a geekily charming way. But he's the internation sysmbol f
Scanners and Printer drivers (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at all the unsupported scanners SANE Project HP search [sane-project.org]
Apple could make a good move here (Score:5, Insightful)
Can they handle the Support? (Score:3, Insightful)
"How do I install X application/game/hardware with Linux"
"I bought Microsoft Office.. why doesn't it do anything in LInux"
Unless you already know what you're doing with Linux... you might as well use Windows 95 if you want to have any clue on how to do something.
Linux still has to clean up the user experience before it'll be a real desktop alternative to Windows. (or even MacOSX)
PCI X? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:2, Interesting)
Selling Linux boxes is cool. But there are many other sources of cheaper Linux systems. HP should kindly understand that logic.
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:3, Offtopic)
I know this is offtopic, and feel free to mod me as such. I just can't let FUD like that stand on it's own merit without some clarification.
I'm not fond of seeing jobs go overseas, but that's the price of free trade sometimes. There are also about 6 million jobs in the US for foreign companies (names like Sony
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:2, Offtopic)
It might just be the area I am in but finding phone techs is not easy. No I am not in India and it is very unlikly we will ever outsource. We find having the support people rig
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:3, Informative)
Keep in mind, the unemployment rate omits anyone who is "permanently" unemployed, which means out of a job for more than six months.
The average time out of work for those 5.6% is five months right now, which means a lot of people are falling out of the job-seeker pie in the reported figures.
Finally, 5.6% is about people who have *no* jobs... it doesn't count the "underemployed," or those working part time at Wal-Mart for $7 an hour
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:3, Informative)
This is completely wrong. The unemployment insurance numbers have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the unemployment numbers. The government uses a survey, the Current Population Survey (CPS) to determine the unemployment numbers. This is explained in detail
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:3, Interesting)
If HP is outsourcing, then it is in their home/printer department...I doubt they are outsourcing Linux support.
Re:Buy with a conscience (Score:2, Interesting)
As a person who was 6 months ago blocked from working in the US (actually I was supposed to go there to train people in the use of software I had written, but this was blocked by a union using US work laws.. I would have been there for 3 weeks.) after the same group of people had spent over 6 months here in my country working without problem or limitation (and I must say they had a great time also!) I am completely in support of HP, thank you for pointing this out!
Of course, I was not informed of
Sadly, outsourcing is inevitable (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm sure there are people who do, however, I'd suggest the majority don't, and end up with a cupboard full of clothes made in Mexico, Brazil, India, China etc. It is the same here in Australia.
It is both shareholders, wanting better profits, and consumers, wanting cheaper products, who are driving outsoucing. It happens with clothes, it happens with cars, its now starting to happen with IT.
If you only buy locally made goods, you are supportin
Re:Goodbye Microsoft (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Goodbye Microsoft (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Fair enough (Score:2, Insightful)
Progress requires initiative. Thankfully, some in the world have the initiative to innovate and start to solve the "problems
Re:Fair enough (Score:3, Insightful)
I wouldn't say any. There's a fair number of 15-year-olds out there with a healthy interest in computers and how to make them work. Linux is an excellent way of teaching them that.
So, uh, take your generalisations and go home. Thank you.