Mini-iPod Mystery Drive Unveiled? 434
A user writes "One of the aspects of the '2G mini-iPod' rumour that's so far made it unlikely is the lack of a tiny, cheap, 2G, drive. Well, today Cornice has announced a 2G hard drive (PDF, 100k) that fits the bill. It's available for about $70 in lots of 100,000. The Mac Rumour sites are going faily nuts over this for obvious reasons. The reason the drive is so cheap is that it contains virtually no driver electronics, there's not even a memory buffer - this is the equivalent of a 1980's RLL or MFM drive. At $70 it seems unlikely that the mini-iPod, assuming it's announced tomorrow, will be under $100, but on the other hand the original iPod sold for the same price as the harddrive inside it. Here's hoping..."
Finally! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Finally! (Score:2)
Perfect timeing it seems to me, and as I said before, setting Apple in stone as THE music player to have for the future.
Re:Finally! (Score:2)
Re:Finally! (Score:3, Insightful)
Obviously, all handheld consumers must be idiots since we voted with our wallets to choose the new color models over the old AAA powered ones.
Other uses (Score:5, Interesting)
Fully functioning PC in a handheld device? (Score:4, Funny)
$70 for a 2 gig drive! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:$70 for a 2 gig drive! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:$70 for a 2 gig drive! (Score:5, Funny)
That's impressive. I've heard of portable audio players with seek times of up to several minutes.
I think they're called "Walkman" or something like that.
Aah, memories... PRESS PLAY ON TAPE.
Re:$70 for a 2 gig drive! (Score:3, Funny)
Press ">>"
One-one-thousand
Two-one-thousand
Three-one-thousand
Four-one-thousand
Press ">||"
Damn! It's a minute into the third song.
Press "<<"
One-one-thousand
Press ">||"
Well, close enough...
Transfer rate of 4.5 mB/s (Score:2)
Re:$70 for a 2 gig drive! (Score:5, Interesting)
It also lists the average power consumption for typical audio playback as only 4mW. That assumes that you have 32MB of memory available as a cache and that the audio is 64Kb/sec.
Interestingly, the brochure also claims that the electrical interface to the device uses true IDE mode. Using a well established standard like this means that just about anyone could interface with it - I would love to get my hands on one of these to put into my own MP3 player, but it doesn't look like this company is particular interested in selling single drives to people like me. Using a standard IDE interface also means that existing hardware and software drivers can be re-used: for example there are USB2 to IDE bridge chips that could (in theory) connected directly to this drive for a portable MP3 player, and there is also plenty of GPL'ed code for interfacing to IDE devices.
Re:How is that off topic? (Score:2)
he may be new, but nonetheless he is right.
His post is not Offtopic. Somebody can answer him : this is the price of miniaturization. And that's it. But get prepared to pay for more than that to get that little cute white thing in your pocket.
Apple moderating zealotry is one of the most unbearable thing down there. Shame on you ! ;0
Regards,
jdif
BOM Cost... (Score:5, Interesting)
Just my 2 cents...
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:2)
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think that even at $199 a 2 GB iPod could really excite people. $150 would be pretty amazing, but then Apple's margins would be pretty low (relative to the current iPods) so it'd have to be a volume play.
Perhaps Apple could bundle pre-paid music from iTMS, to make the effective price $100? For example, $199 bundled with $100 of music is kinda like a $100 iPod. Music companies do discounted promotional bundles all the time, so this wouldn't be far fetched. And for bundling with an iPod, it could be pre-loaded on the hard drive, or pre-paid (gift certificate) to download from iTMS, so there would be no physical costs, just licensing costs. Or perhaps each iPod comes with $100 of sode (which gives iTunes away)?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:2)
I sure hope that you're right. but it'd mean that Apple's selling iPods at cost in order to sell music at cost, or vice versa. Hmm. Perhaps they strip down the display and controls a bit? Hrm. I guess we'll know more tomorrow.
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:2)
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:5, Funny)
Geezus, STOP GIVING THEM FSCKING MARKETING IDEAS! I want an iPod for $100! I don't want 100 bucks worth of music. I don't want a stupid gift certificate or licensing or anything. I'm a dirt cheap geek who is thisclose to actually braving the redneck land of Wal-Mart to get a $99 PC that I can muck around with. You telling Apple all these different ways for them to charge me even more for a product I already think is overpriced isn't getting me any closer to my wet dream.
Really? Why doesn't anybody just say, "If they take a loss on the iPod, they'll sell more at the Music Store. Also, give away 100,000 Junior iPods free to water their mouths!" Now that's a marketing plan I can get on board with.
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to sound rude, but why don't you try getting a better job? Spend the $100 on a decent used suit to use at job interviews or buy a training book with the money. Do something to better yourself instead of wasting your money on toys. Once you have a good job you'll have plenty of money to throw away on toys like 40GB iPods and Powerbooks.
Re:The "Forbidden" screenshot links (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no way I'd buy one if I couldn't use my mp3 collection with it.
Also, what about people who don't know the difference between the various formats, and when they try to play their trusty mp3 collection, they find it not working. How many calls/emails will Apple receve from this?
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:3, Interesting)
I lost interest in Apple harware after the Beige G3s. I HATED all of that F'ing clear plastic and happy colors nonsense. X is nice, but the software that I need to run isn't available on X. I like the fle
What's the quantity/price curve for these? (Score:2)
Does anybody have any figures on how price and quantity interrelate once you start getting to these sizes - or is there sufficiently few of these contracts and sufficiently many other complicating factors that the price trends are difficult to discern?
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:5, Funny)
Jobs: How about you sell us half a million of those drives for $10 each.
Cornice CEO: Well, that's pretty much below what it costs us to make them, we've got to have at least $50 each for them.
Jobs: Let me put this another way. How about you sell us half a million of those drive for $10 each, and we'll not buy out your company and fire every manager making over $100k a year?
Cornice CEO: Uh...OK!
OK, so Apple isn't exactly Microsoft, but you can't tell me Cornice isn't going to bend over backwards to get their name associated with something that would be this big.
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:BOM Cost... (Score:5, Insightful)
WHy not (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:WHy not (Score:2)
To make a claim like this AND it be informed, you would have had to have seen an iPod Jr (or whatever they may be called). If so, the entire apple community (and others) would really appreciate a picture of it.
The PDF, at least as far as I saw after DLing it, didn't mention the size of the drive. Granted it is more likely than not larger than SOME MP3 players, it would be a shame to jump to such conclusio
lot of spinning (Score:3, Insightful)
i dont want hear noises of the hard drive spinning in the background when I am listening to Bob Seger.
Re:lot of spinning (Score:5, Funny)
Re:lot of spinning (Score:2)
Re:lot of spinning (Score:2)
Not really (Score:2)
Re:lot of spinning (Score:5, Insightful)
The memory buffer on the HD itself is so the electronics on the drive can try to guess ahead what data will be asked for next. So on something like the iPod, where the HD only spins up once every 20 minutes, the buffer integrated into the drive only adds expense and doesn't help performance.
Yes, but.... (Score:4, Interesting)
All it takes is a breakthrough in compression to mean you don't have to spend so much time and energy handling the read/decode/buffer/play routine.
Cut at least two of those dramactically and you've compensated for an otherwise/relatively slow drive.
Apple has been very busy with QuickTime, iTunes and AAC lately - note that current purchased music has a profile of 'Low Complexity'.
I betting they have an advanced codec that allows them to overcome traditional restrictions that may baffle others that have attempted and given up on the same combination of mechanicals and electronics.
Re:lot of spinning (Score:4, Insightful)
You forget a missing piece... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You forget a missing piece... (Score:3, Funny)
This will be a dead giveaway that mini iPod's are going to be announced!
Re:You forget a missing piece... (Score:2)
Why would you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would anyone buy an iPod too small to hold their entire collection. One of the best features is that you only need to connect it to the PC when you buy a new CD or whatever. I've owned a range of portable music devices and I'd never ever buy another one that couldn't just handle my entire library at once.
A quick bit of math; Assume 1MB/minute, 2Gig = 2048 minutes = 34 hours. That's somewhere between 3 days and a week. I've gone a month without connecting my iPod to my library.
Re:Why would you? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why would you? (Score:5, Informative)
You can back up your computer
Boot off it
Keep track of appointments
Keep track of phone numbers
Play Solitaire
Listen to MP3s
Safeguard $3k worth of music
In fact... it's about as useful as a PC running Windows 95!
I'm joking, but the worth of an iPod is >>> than just an MP3 player. It's a portable firewire powered hard drive that also happens to play MP3s
Re:Why would you? (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps, because someone [slashdot.org]here cannot afford the more expensive large-HD version, you insensitive clod!
But if you insist, I can post my IBAN account number here, so you can donate the necessary euro-$$$ for me.
Re:Why would you? (Score:2)
Re:Why would you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if you've got a lot of music stored in iTunes, with only a couple of Gigs of data to transfer to the iPod, it would be easy to pick a few albums and load up a day's listening while you're off making a cup of tea.
Re:Why would you? (Score:3, Informative)
"...I've owned a range of portable music devices and I'd never ever buy another one that couldn't just handle my entire library at once.
A quick bit of math; Assume 1MB/minute, 2Gig = 2048 minutes = 34 hours. That's somewhere between 3 days and a week. I've gone a month without connecting my iPod to my library. "
For someone like myself, who doesn't feel the need to carry my whole collection with me at one time, nor brag about it, a 2gig iPod at an affordable price would suit me just fine.
I
Re:Why would you? (Score:5, Interesting)
The only place I really wanted to use it was at the gym, and the device (in a belt clip) kept tugging my shorts down. And all I want is maybe a dozen albums to pick from while I'm lifting weights, walking to and from home.
(and before you mention solid state devices -- I want something that works with iTunes!)
A mini-iPod would be perfect for me. Unfortunately, I don't believe the rumors at all.
Re:Why would you? (Score:2)
because my mp3 collection is 120GB + and there is no way i could afford the 120GB iPod that doesn't exist.
so 2GB can hold about 15 CDs
Re:Why would you? (Score:2)
Some of us don't eed to have access to every piece of music we own, all the time.
Personally, My regularly listened to music is always being updated. I mean I got 18 year old CDs I don't need to listen too, and haven't for 17 years.
Re:Why would you? (Score:2)
(Here, have a spare question mark: '?')
Erm, because they don't make a 90GB iPod? (And no, that's not FLACs or high-bitrate files that could be stripped, that's mostly 128kbps files.)
But yes, your other point about capacity stands: I don't need to change what's on my iPod more than every few months, if that. A smaller drive would be an annoyance. Still much better than its predecessor, my MD player, though.
Re:Why would you? (Score:3, Informative)
Now reduce that with flac, or just plain gzip would probably result in something like 100-200GB. Lossy OGG (vorbis), AAC or MP3 could probably reduce it down to approx 50GB (with the vorbis and AAC likely still sounding good) So it's not much more than people hold in their 40GB ipods.
Toshiba? (Score:2)
New Rumor - GarageBand (Score:2, Interesting)
Garage Band [macrumors.com]
More likely to be $199.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:More likely to be $199.... (Score:2)
Re:More likely to be $199.... (Score:2)
Dell has a digital player out holding 15GB for $249. Now even if that thing is a piece of crap there is no way Apple can release a 2GB player for $50 less. And the MuVo2 is already in this space.
Apple needs to shock the world. If they release a 2GB player for more than $149 the collective yawns will be defeaning.
Re:More likely to be $199.... (Score:5, Insightful)
$199 is too high a price point to be easily differentiated from the price for the regular iPod. They won't cannibalize from the iPod because they won't sell: Folks who can set aside $199 for a music player will be able to set aside another $100 for the full version. Especially if they do the math and realize they get five times the songs for a 33% increase in price.
Consider further that Apple doesn't want you to do the math. If you start looking at tradeoffs and dollars per minute of music, you might realize that you can get a better deal on a flash memory player or one of those Dell things. Apple makes their money on the Cool Factor, and cold hard logic is dangerous to their bottom line.
$99 breaks the three-digit psychological barrier, and is something that many folks could scrounge out easily -- without thinking. A little voice might try to say that it's more expensive, but they'll be thinking of Courtney Love playing the new Nirvana song from her iPod and all those other rock stars who can't live without their iPods and -- sure, I can afford this, I need a player anyway. Maybe I'll get one for the wife, too.
I was expecting the whole miniPod rumor to blow away, like the PDA they were supposed to come out with a couple of years ago. The existence of the small drives makes it a lot more likely. If it does happen, I'd like for Apple to be smart [for a change!], lose a little money on these first ones and make it up as component prices go down.
But I guess we'll all find out tomorrow.
TSG
Re:More likely to be $199.... (Score:5, Interesting)
That is, unless there is some amazing killer feature to it. Obscenely long battery life? Really small? It would have to be amazingly sexy for it to be worth $200 when the premium for the next higher model is so little given the much greater capacity.
Also, the quoted price is $70 each for the media in 100k quantities. Perhaps this price is artificially raised for Apple's competitors, by agreement with Apple, in order to discourage them from buying the same media from Cornice and making knockoff players. And maybe Cornice does not have the capacity to make too many more of these things above and beyond Apple's order, and jacking up the price for everyone but Apple saves them from losing face by denying orders. Cornice loses nothing, Apple gets to make their player, and competitors are left high and dry.
I've said this before - if come tomorrow these "microPods" actually exist and are selling for $100, I will buy one immediately. Let's hope it'll be easy to coerce Linux to talk to it
possibilities (Score:2, Funny)
Never, ever, have a song skip.
Re:possibilities (Score:2)
Fine, here is an ON topic post... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Fine, here is an ON topic post... (Score:5, Interesting)
The acceleration needed to bend a head down to impact with a platter increases with the shrinking length of the arm the head is mounted on, and increases again with the decrease in mass of the head and arm. It's a simple matter of scale. So a smaller mechanisim could be much more resistant to crashing.
Anyway, I've never heard any actual complaints about iPod drives, just speculation by pundits that *maybe* there *might* eventually be problems with some constantly abused units. And I have heard plenty of stories of people bouncing them off the concrete multiple times with no ill effects. Therefore I question your sources.
Re:Fine, here is an ON topic post... (Score:2)
Hang on... (Score:2, Interesting)
So how do the books balance out? I would expect if Apple is so interested in pushing the iPods [as evidenced by the creation of iTunes], they'd want to get a nice profit from each unit sold.
Re:Hang on... (Score:5, Insightful)
The original 5gb iPod was sold at the same price as the standalone 5gb Toshiba drive... but Apple undoubtedly got tremendous profit due to buying the drive in bulk. Perhaps the same case here: $70 in lots of 100,000, but I am willing to bet Apple can procure and easily sell a million of these. If they can get them at $50 each, and then bundle $50 of electronics, and then sell it for $199, they are making huge markup, no?
Re:Hang on... (Score:3, Interesting)
Good Lord, that's smalls (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting how, despite the poster's comparison to old-tyme MFM drives, the Cornice is apparently equipped with a "true IDE" interface. Dunno what level ATA that is, but parts is parts to a certain extent, and it looks like a fairly simple drop-in solution. The iPod, despite being incredibly compact, uses no custom ICs- everything's all off the shelf- this was done on purpose and the Cornice SE jives perfectly with this design methodology.
Maybe this'll be the next Gameboy, from a pop culture standpoint.
This is the beginning of something good... (Score:5, Interesting)
I was in Best Buy recently and saw a Rio MP3 player with a whopping 128 MB for $109. If Apple gets a mini-iPod for about that price, who in their right mind will buy a Rio player for that price. The only potential drawback to the iPod is that it can't WMA files served up by MusicMatch, Napster and other crappy music services. Granted, if you are buying any iPod, you are probably not wasting your time with those sites anyway.
Here's to hoping to something good tomorrow at MacWorld. Please Steve, I want an affordable iPod!
SWEET! (Score:4, Funny)
Fully fledged iPod for half the price! - Suckers!
Hmm...something seems not quite right...
A couple ways this could happen... (Score:4, Interesting)
Cornice???? (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect one of the bigger names will turn out to be Apple's supplier. Apple have been at the cutting edge ofindustrial design for years now, so I would also expect the drive for a mini ipod would not be a off-the-shelf product at all, instead it would be very tightly integrated into the mini ipod.
As for $70 per 100,000, I think that's a sign this isn't the drive too. Apple would be putting in an order for a few million a year. If Cornice was the supplier for a product as hot as mini ipod, would they really have 100,000 spare to offer to anyone else, and would Apple let them pitch it so boldly at other mp3 player builders the day before (supposed) launch?
Re:Cornice???? (Score:4, Informative)
and would Apple let them pitch it so boldly at other mp3 player builders the day before (supposed) launch?
Cornice makes the 1.5 GB drive that is used in the Rio Nitrus/Eigen. So there's already another mp3 player builder that knows about this company.
better link (Score:2)
it appears as if IMB and its microdrive have some competition. And if this thing is as rugged as it claims to be, the future looks good, real good.
Write speed... (Score:5, Insightful)
I may be able to put a 30 minute album on 30MB of space, but if it takes 10 minutes to copy it to the drive, I'm gonna get seriously pissed after about 2 minutes...
Then again, I'm still waiting till the whole battery problem is resolved to my satisfaction...
Re:Write speed... (Score:3, Funny)
With only 2GB, you will be constantly swapping songs on and off this thing, perhaps completely replacing the contents. You might be waiting 8+ minutes every day. Sure... you get 7 minutes for a single large file, but to write many smaller files your're in the 8-10 minute time frame.
For comparison, the first generation iPod's 5GB drive has a transfer rate of about 22MB/s on an ATA/66 bus, or about 5 minutes to fill the thing. The newer drives are even faster and use ATA/100 interfac
back of the envelope (Score:5, Insightful)
We can safely assume that Apple can bring some pressure to bear for better pricing on all of the above parts. Given this analysis, I'd guess that the entry price for the mini-iPod will be $149 and Apple knows something we don't about how to keep costs down (or they're willing to take a much lower profit maragin to build market share: not a bad plan if you expect mini-iPod buyers to graduate to higher maragin products in a year or so).
where's the data sheet? (Score:5, Informative)
This gives a little bit more info:
http://www.corniceco.com/download/CorniceM
It's gotta be $99 or nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
Final price = manufacturing costs + marketing costs + healthy margin + some more healthy margin + annual GDP of Canada (which isn't much, I'll give you that)
I know I'm not buying an mp3 player that costs over a hundred bucks. Most people won't either.
Now if the rumors are true and apple is indeed planning to release a 2Gb mini-Ipod, They should cut on margins and go for a $99 markup. Sales would be huge and would certainly increase the Itunes userbase exponentially. This would allow them to be in a great position to renegociate their contracts with the Big five of the recording industry and profit from it. In
1-sell miniIpod for $99
2-Increase Itunes userbase and song sales
3-renegociate contract with record labels
4-profit!
Not to mention that a significant amount of Ipod users switch to Macs. More long-term durable profit right there.
Unfortunately, corporations tend to favor next quarter profits to the detriment of the long-term. So I'm not holding my breath on this one.
So in all this "pushing something else" theory... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now if these relatively cheap mini-iPods arrive, they can't be pushing iPods. They'd have to be pushing the iTMS.
So what then does the iTMS now push? Or iPods? iTunes? iMacs? iMconfused?
The only "reasonable" explaination I'd see for a killer price-iPod is to coup the standards war - wmv out, aac in as the de facto standard of digital music.
I find it much more likely that it'll have the normal Apple mark-up. In other words, quite expensive compared to players of similar specs. The primary "sellers" are the iPod brand, interface and iTMS, not price.
Of course, I could be horribly wrong. But I don't see how it'd be in Apples interest to do anything drastic that could hurt their iPod cashcow.
Kjella
Re:Flash Memory (Score:5, Interesting)
As for the dropping problem, everyone I know who has an iPod has dropped it at least once, no problems.
Re:Flash Memory (Score:3, Informative)
The cheapest 2GB I see there is $175.
That's A Microdrive!! (Score:2)
And a cheap knock off of the IBM/Hitachi drive at that.
2 GB Solid State cards go for close to $500!
Re:Flash Memory (Score:5, Informative)
Price and capacity. You can get a 2 GB hard drive for $70, and the largest, cheapest flash RAM card I can find is 1 GB for $290 (retail), making 2 GB at least that much wholesale, and probably more. It's very hard to profitably sell an MP3 player for $100 that contains $300 of flash storage.
Re:Flash Memory (Score:2, Funny)
Wikipedia has the answer (Score:5, Informative)
A similar progression has held for hard disk storage available per dollar cost - in fact, the rate of progression in disk storage over the past 10 years or so has actually been faster than for semiconductors--although, largely because of production cost issues, hard drive performance increases have lagged significantly.
Link [wikipedia.org]
Fallacious. (Score:2, Insightful)
Try again (Score:5, Informative)
Which one is the measure of speed? HD capacity is a measure of capacity (duh). Moore's law was a measure of capacity (transistors per IC to be precise).
Re:Fallacious. (Score:2)
Thus it's not so wildly off the mark to compare that generalization to one about storage density increases.
Re:I wonder.... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I wonder.... (Score:5, Informative)
I remember working this out a few years back -- the hard drive industry was cranking along at about Moore's Law, then IBM started really pushing, and blew past the competition, averaging 75% improvement annually. And for the last few years, the standard hard drive size in PC's has doubled annually. A few data points from digging on the web:
Summer 1999: IBM 340 MB Microdrive, 5 billion bits per square inch.
Summer 2000: IBM 1 GB Microdrive, 15.2 billion bits per square inch.
Summer 2002: IBM demonstrates 1 trillion bits per square inch. This is an 'in the lab' technology, so it'll be a few years until it's a product, but it makes pretty clear that there's some room to grow.
Years ago I made a graph of all of the computer's I'd owned, with CPU speed, display resolution, modem bandwidth, primary storage, and removable storage. It was amazing how they all improved dramatically, though in relative terms displays have improved slowly -- in the same time that a 1.77 MHz 8-bit TRS-80 Model 1 with 4K RAM and a cassette tape drive turned into a 733 MHz 32-bit PowerMac G4 with 1.5 GB or RAM, a DVD-R drive (i.e. improvements on the order of a factor of 1 million) the display went from 64x16 character text display (or 128x48 b/w pixels) to a 1600x1024 pixel, 24 bit deep color display, which is only 6,400x as much data on the screen, and the 300 bps modem became a 1 mbps cable modem, which is only 3,333x as fast. Pathetic compared to improvements in storage, RAM and CPU.
Man, I have to buy a new computer. Same display and cable modem, but a 2 CPU 2 GHz G5 would make those curves so much prettier.
Re:Did anyone else notice? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Did anyone else notice? (Score:3, Funny)
Because if they didn't, could I get some karma points for mentioning it?
Re:bin laden.. (Score:3, Funny)
Could be he does HALO or HAHO jumps, in which case the plane may not be pressurized.
Re:Did anyone else notice? (Score:5, Funny)
On the second day of his everest expedition, Bob's iPod was not responding well to the cold. "Damn it, I just bought this thing", thought Bob, as he desperately tried to diagnose the trouble. The thick heavy mittens he wore weren't helping, and suddenly, his precious iPod slipped out of his hand, and half buried itself in the fresh powder.
"My precious!, Where is my precious?" thought Bob. He tore off his sun goggles, in a desperate attempt to locate the shiny white mp3 player. It was perhaps the worst decision of his ill fated decision since he had dozed off during one of the orienteering lectures, lulled by the gentle rhythms of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.
The snow was bright, so very bright. And his ipod so very small. Up ahead, the rest of his party had moved on. But Bob felt sure he would be soon be able to rock out with a little Donavan. Finely, he spotted something. Was it his player? No, it was merely some loose snow concealing a crevasse...
Re:Apple will makeup the difference in $99 batteri (Score:2)
Re:I laugh at you guys.. Never learn (Score:2)
TiBook
iMac
eMac