NatSci 802.11x WiFi Tracker Zeroes In On Users 85
securitas writes "Techweb reports that IT admins can now track and physically locate 802.11x WLAN users within a few feet using the new Wi-Fi Tracker hardware from National Scientific, based on its DarkStar wireless product. NSC's site says it will also produce tracking-only 'tag or badge' formats so admins are not limited to tracking active WLAN users and equipment. The company is now shipping development kits to its first customers and a technical specs PDF is available. The product incorporates Ekahau triangulation software. This is reminiscent of an earlier Slashdot story about office surveillance using 802.11b triangulation to track and determine the location of wireless network users."
Great news! (Score:4, Interesting)
Just imagine all the geeky reallife RPGs you can build using this technique!
Well, damn. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Well, damn. (Score:2)
perhaps named after... (Score:2)
Re:perhaps named after... (Score:1)
CC.
How can they do that? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How can they do that? (Score:1)
Re:How can they do that? (Score:1)
Re:How can they do that? (Score:3, Funny)
lololol
What does it take? (Score:2)
Triangulation is easy once you have the raw signal data, and this seems a fun hack to do this on the cheap with Linux HostAP over the holidays.
Re:What does it take? (Score:5, Informative)
I am interested to see if the product in question can be used indoors for traingulation. Without a usable gps signal, you'd have to calibrate known locations and that seems out of the range of the Dark Star's ability.
FWIW, I spoke at ToorCon in San Diego this last fall on the subject of using a directional antenna and a fluxgate (electronic) compass. We did some coding and quite a bit of hardware hacking, and we didn't get far because one sensor cost around $1400 in raw materials and hardware tests to get one built.
Google for Cassandra or e-mail me if you're still interested.
Re:What does it take? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What does it take? (Score:2)
First, divide the building up into zones. Where possible, the boundaries between zones should follow "natural" boundaries that are likely to attenuate radio signals, like walls and ceilings, but if you have to cover large open spaces then you might have to draw some fairly arbitrary boundaries.
Put your receiver in the first zone an
Re:What does it take? (Score:2)
Re:What does it take? (Score:1)
Re:What does it take (Score:2, Informative)
one of the projects I work on is indeed localization based. We were working on Berkeley's Mica MOTES and have an algorithm APS which can as the above poster stated use a relative coordianate system. However in reference to the article ranging based on signal strength is worthless (based on my own research and experience). Strength fluctuates too much to give a good equation for trianglulation. On the mote hardware the si
Re:What does it take (Score:2)
So, while one access point saying "it could be 5, 13 or 35 feet away" is very little information, combining that with a second access point's information will draw another set of concentric circles, and there's going to be a limited number of intersect points. Add in a third set of circles and hope that the tr
GO SCARLET KNIGHTS! (Score:2)
Re:What does it take? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:What does it take (Score:1)
Re:What does it take? (Score:2)
But you could use timing instead. You could probably do that with any wifi card that allows you to "snoop" the airwaves.
The problem is of course how to get a timer that precise. The signal moves with a speed of about 3*10^8 m/s. To locate the sender within 3 meters, you need rougly a 10 ns timer. I don't think you could do that in software on an ordinary computer.
Re:What does it take? (Score:1)
I gotta say, NatSci's stuff is gigantic. No need for devices that size. And what kid's going to want to carry a device called "Gotcha!"? Whatever.
Well.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Well.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Precisely. It's their network, so why shouldn't they have the right to do anything they want to with it as long as it's not in violation of any laws, in order to ensure security, efficiency and productivity of their business?
If business were trying to track what their employees do after they leave work, I would agree, but when you're on the job, it's all fair game.
Mod parent non-insightful (Score:1, Interesting)
It's funny how we Americans get so extreme about rights - it's not "I have a right, and so does he/she/it" - it's "I have this right, that right, and then some - all very unilateral. I live in the land of the free, halleluja!.
But sure, the corp. network is the corp's network,
Re:Well.. (Score:1, Insightful)
If I recall, it was said that you would be able to detect if someone was in the building or not, but I'd imagine that if you can position yourself so you are only talking to one AP that their method wouldn't be able to find you, but you'd still be able to use the network.
^^ I'm a SysAdmin for a Wireless ISP, but that doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about.
Not for wardrivers... (Score:1, Informative)
If you can imagine, that the company is enough security wise to deploy such solution to catch wardrivers, it probably employs other anti-hacking measures that among other things include strong authentication & encryption schemes (SSL tunneling, IPSEC, ...). Since traffic protected in such manner can be passively detected, one can imagine that wardrivers will simply proceed to the next mark, since they are merely trying yo exploit unsecured || weakly secured (WEP) networks.
Using this to catch wardrivers
Heh... (Score:5, Funny)
And yes, I know.
Active badge (Score:3, Interesting)
Office tracking [att.com] as already in use.
Spyware time (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hahaha (Score:1)
TechWeb (business technology) (Score:1)
Am I the only one ... (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe I watched too many cartoons as a kid
Re:Am I the only one.... (Score:2)
Re:Am I the only one.... (Score:1)
Re:Am I the only one.... (Score:2)
Re:Am I the only one.... (Score:1)
IMDB [imdb.com]
IANAEE (Score:4, Interesting)
What if I had a multi-antenna setup pointing my signal at different APs? To make the thing more confusing, what if I had attenuators or amplifiers on some of those antennas?
Re:IANAEE (Score:5, Informative)
A directional antenna is like a flashlight. It's pretty easy to find someone shining a flashlight at you. To answer your second question, it's no harder to find someone using multiple flashlights.
Once you know the general direction, you can drive there, and once you get close enough, there will be more than enough signal from the antenna's sidelobes to finish the triangulation.
For what it's worth, you only need triangulation to determine range. It's possible to determine the direction of a signal without pointing directional antennas around while looking at signal meters. By putting two dipoles a known distance away from each other and comparing the phase of the returned signal (like humans do with their ears) they can determine direction - with a third dipole, or by rotating the array, they can determine whether the signal is in front or behind them.
For more information on this, google search for some combination of "foxhunt", "radio direction finding", "RDF", or "TDOA".
Re:IANAEE (Score:3, Informative)
A yagi from miles away would hit one access point, and only one access point. However, this system requires that all authorized transmitters hit at least two if not three access points. It's going to be sure where this person is, but it can be sure where this person isn't... Remember, the first step in dealing with a hack is realizing you've been hacked. The hacker's traffic flags itself for attention
I'll be across the street at a local coffee bar! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'll be across the street at a local coffee bar (Score:2)
Re:I'll be across the street at a local coffee bar (Score:1)
I'm confused.... (Score:3, Insightful)
The techweb article seems to imply that something would locate any wi-fi device, which would be nice for tracking down wireless misbehavior.
Did I miss something?
Photo logs (Score:1)
free wifi for customers that are INSIDE the store (Score:2, Interesting)
So much for bringing your own food from home and parking outside the coffee shop for free wireless.
Dang! (Score:2, Funny)
Testing Center Employee: "Excuse me sir, we have detected that you are using a Palm Pilot to access 'TestAnswers.com'"
Me: "Ah crap!" (Beeline for the door.)
privacy policy (Score:2)
Military applications (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Military applications (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Military applications (Score:1)
If these go mainstream... (Score:2)
Bicycle + iBook + Airport + Darkstar-equipped network = hours of fun
(yes, I know it's only short-range as of now, and that anyone advanced enough to install one of these would probably have a network reasonably protected against warwa
Re:This is useless (Score:2)
I doubt anyone that would spend that kind of $ to find you wouldnt just secure against you.
Ekahau (Score:2)