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Portables (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

G5 PowerBook "Challenge" 529

Posted by CmdrTaco from the not-gonna-happen-any-time-soon dept.
CarlBenda writes "MacWorld/UK has some interesting quotes from Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of Hardware Engineering at Apple concerning the possibility of a G5 powerbook. He's said that a G5 powerbook is "an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook". Start saving your money."
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G5 PowerBook "Challenge" More

G5 PowerBook "Challenge"

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  • "I'm not dead yet.." (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:54PM (#6997350) Homepage Journal

    A G5 PowerBook.. not bad for a company that has been dying for 20+ years according to the trolls.

  • 9 Fans (Score:2, Informative)

    by cheesekeeper ( 649923 )
    The DP G5 has Nine fans in it. I believe the 17" PB has two. That's a little bit of work.

    • Re:9 Fans (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jo_ham ( 604554 ) <joham999@gmail.cTIGERom minus cat> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:25PM (#6997642)
      And the G5 chassis is basically a giant wind tunnel with carefully aligned vanes and aerofoils. There's no easy way to fit that sort of design into a chassis less than an inch deep (even if it is over 17" wide).

      • Re:9 Fans (Score:3, Informative)

        by pmz ( 462998 )
        There's no easy way to fit that sort of design into a chassis less than an inch deep (even if it is over 17" wide).

        I disagree. The G5 case is designed very similarly to the high-end UNIX workstations (Sun Blade 2000, Ultra 80, etc.), where optimum cooling and reliability are high priority (let's not flame about no ECC in the G5...oops).

        Using a laptop hard drive, battery, etc. along with a slightly powered-down G5 would be very feasible in a laptop. Third-party manufacturers did this for the UltraSPARC

    • Re:9 Fans (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:32PM (#6997695)
      The Power Mac G5 has nine fans in it because they want it to be quiet. If you run nine fans at low speed, you move the same amount of air as one fan at high (i.e., noisy) speed.

      The PowerPC G5 at 1.8 GHz dissipates 42 watts of power. That's about the same as the G4 at 1.25 GHz... which is now shipping in a PowerBook.

    • Re:9 Fans (Score:5, Informative)

      by JonathanBoyd ( 644397 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:36PM (#6997723) Homepage
      Good grief, I see comments like this in every story about the G5. There are large numbers of fans so that the machine can run quietly. They could have got by with less if they made a machine as loud as a typical Intel/AMD offering. The fans spend most of their time not spinning or at very, very low revs. Also means that they can add faster, hotter processors for quite a while before they need to worry about changing the design. It's a forward-looking, quiet, controlled bit of design, not a roaring oven.

  • The challenge (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:54PM (#6997355)
    Start saving your money.

    Is that the challenge? To save enough money to buy a Mac? That is going to be tough.

  • Um... okay? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nacturation ( 646836 ) <nacturation&gmail,com> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:54PM (#6997356) Journal
    To sum up the article:
    • The G5 processor runs really hot
    • Notebooks don't like heat
    • It'll be tough to get the G5 in a PowerBook
    How did this made the front page?

    • Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Funny)

      by sammy baby ( 14909 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:01PM (#6997434) Journal
      Because Apple is suddenly cool these days, and PowerBooks are very very pretty. And shiny. See? Ooh, shiny things.

      (I'm pretty sure that's the logic, anyway.)

      • Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Frymaster ( 171343 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:11PM (#6997524) Homepage Journal
        Because Apple is suddenly cool these days,

        no. apple was always cool. it's just that people are only starting to realize it now. think about it:

        1. one of the original pioneers (if not the pioneer) of home computing in general
        2. first comapny to bring the wimps thing out of the lab and into the living room
        3. first company to bring risc out of the server room and into the living room
        4. first company to make a unix mom-n-dad can actually use

        and, despite all this, the computers still look nice.

        very cool indeed!

        • Always? (Score:5, Funny)

          by John Harrison ( 223649 ) <johnharrison@@@gmail...com> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:26PM (#6997648) Homepage Journal
          I am not sure that my Performa was cool.

        • Re:Um... okay? (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Their computers have always been cool. Well, originally they were very cool, but for a while they were just sorta cool, and then when they moved to PowerPC they got very cool again, but when they couldn't get the G4 past 500 Mhz for a couple of years that wasn't too cool. Anyway, the OS mostly wasn't cool at all through OS8 and OS9, and it's only been since OSX that the software and hardware has come together to make computers that are totally cool again.

        • Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Informative)

          by Echemus ( 49002 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @04:17PM (#6998150)
          Erm, unless Apple had a RISC based PC in or before 1987, I very much doubt they were the first to bring RISC out of the server room.

          Acorn in the UK developed its own RISC processor (Acorn Risc Processor or ARM - sound familiar?) and released their first computer using it in 1987. It was, what, 5-6 years later or so that Apple released its first PowerPC machine?

          Of course, the A in ARM has been replaced with "Advanced", but Acorn were still the first company to bring out a RISC based personal computer.

          • Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Informative)

            by MasonMcD ( 104041 ) <masonmcd&mac,com> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @09:55PM (#7000648) Homepage
            Lemme help joo with your history. It's not like Acorn was alone in its intent, or that Apple was just some opportunist:

            ARM was established in November 1990 as Advanced RISC Machines Ltd., a UK-based joint venture between Apple Computer, Acorn Computer Group and VLSI Technology. Apple and VLSI both provided funding, while Acorn supplied the technology and ARM's 12 founding engineers. Acorn, developer of the world's first commercial single-chip RISC processor, and Apple, intent on advancing the use of RISC technology in its own systems, chartered ARM with creating a new microprocessor standard. ARM immediately differentiated itself in the market by creating the first low-cost RISC architecture. Conversely, competing architectures, which were more commonly focused on maximizing performance, were first used in high-end workstations.

            http://www.mobileimperative.com/documents.asp?d_ ID =1793
        • OK. While I'm a big Apple advocate and an Apple owner, I must take exception to the statement that Apple has always been "cool."

          My G4 is not cool. It heats up the flippin' room. My cat curls up behind the fan vent like there was a crackling fire behind the grille.

          Before that, my 604e/180 dualie cranked out more heat than your average BLU-118/B thermobaric-tipped ordinance.

          Great machines, yes. Cool, no.

        • Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Informative)

          by dex22 ( 239643 ) <plasticuserNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @04:50PM (#6998429) Homepage
          3. first company to bring risc out of the server room and into the living room

          Now, this has already been settled in court. Apple claimed to have released the first Risc PC, oh, two years after Acorn released a home machine actually called the "Risc PC", based on the ARM6 RISC processor. The court stopped Apple from making the claim, and awarded a nominal sum of compensation.

        • Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Funny)

          by sammy baby ( 14909 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @06:05PM (#6998985) Journal
          For the record, I have nothing against Apple. In fact, I post from a 15" Ti PowerBook (no - not one of the swank new ones with the 802.11g, regrettably) which is my favorite computer to work on.

          You have to admit, though, that pre OS X, telling your average /. reader that you were a huge fan of Apple was like saying that you really, really enjoyed weird fetish videos. The best you could hope for was a nervous grin and a "how nice for you," but inside you know the guy was thinking. "why does this loser get of on this?"
    • Interestingly enough, pentium and athlon chips are known to run hot, and yet they are featured in a number of laptops.

      You're right though, how DID this make the front page? It's not news, it's wankery.

    • Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Funny)

      by bob670 ( 645306 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:12PM (#6997541)
      Easy, Microsoft didn't do anything today, the RIAA didn't issue any new dumb press releases and SCO ran out of people to sue.

  • Great Powerbooks await (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rubel ( 121009 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:54PM (#6997357) Journal
    You know they wouldn't have chosen it if they couldn't make a good laptop with it.

    Now, they'd better make sure they sort out that heat problem that the current 12" G4 Powerbooks suffer from.

    • Re:Great Powerbooks await (Score:5, Informative)

      by mosch ( 204 ) * on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:14PM (#6997558) Homepage
      I have a PB12. There is no heat problem. There may have been a few defective units at the beginning of production, but it doesn't get too hot to use directly on my lap, nor does the wrist rest get so hot that it's uncomfortable. The only way I can make mine seem to get too hot is if I plug it in and leaving it running something like say... itunes visualizations all day, with no air flowing over it, and no hands running over it. Then it gets hot, but still, no hotter than the bottom of my Latitude.

      • Re:Great Powerbooks await (Score:5, Informative)

        by InfiniterX ( 12749 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:21PM (#6997612) Homepage
        Agreed.

        I'm typing on a 12" G4 right now. I've pounded on the CPU pretty hard, and the only time it seems to get hot is if I set it on a blanket or something rather than on a surface where the heat can actually efficiently dissipate. That's a problem with all notebooks, not just Apples.

        The 12" G4 is no hotter, and in fact seems to feel a bit cooler, than the Dell Inspiron 5000 PIII notebook that it replaced.

        • Here's how I tested (Score:5, Informative)

          by BoomerSooner ( 308737 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:50PM (#6997868) Homepage Journal
          I went to the local CompUSA where they leave them on all day running some screensaver, and felt both the 12" Powerbook and the 12" iBook. There was a VERY noticable difference. The iBook seems significantly cooler than the 12" Powerbook and the 15" TiBook was cold (Since the case doesn't transfer heat well through the casing).

          As a laptop user my #1 priority is being able to use it comfortably. The Aluminum Powerbook was too hot (12"), the 17" was tolerable, and the 15" Titanium was a dream (paint chips are not acceptable either). So I chose to wait for the new Al 15" and when my local CompUSA eventually has one on display (3-4 months from now) I'll see if it's cool enough. I bought a 900MHz iBook instead and it stays relatively cool. Hell maybe I'll just wait another year and hope for the G5 powerbooks.

          I'd rather have these things than a hot laptop:
          Less speed (Apple already has this covered, My PIII from 2 1/2 years ago is 1.2GHz)
          More Fans/Noise
          Less attractive case (design is for girls, I'll take ugly and cool over cute and hot every day).
          Larger/heavier case.

          • Re:Here's how I tested (Score:3, Funny)

            by Anonymous Coward
            "...for girls, I'll take ugly and cool over cute and hot every day)."

            De gustibus non est disputandum.

      • Bullwhoey (Score:3, Informative)

        by SuperBanana ( 662181 )
        I have a PB12. There is no heat problem.

        After about 10 minutes of running any cpu-intensive activity, my PB 17" is typically between 130 degrees and 140- the fan kicks in around 140, shuts off at 130. It's been sitting on my desk all day doing next to nothing(I've occasionally queued up some mp3s) and it's at 110.3 according to Temperature Monitor.

        Using it on my lap, say, while on the couch, with any kind of activity, and it'll quickly get rather warm. Playing a movie or AVI file is an excellent way

  • More like... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sydney Weidman ( 187981 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:55PM (#6997361) Homepage
    start saving your hydrogen fuel cells to power the notebooks. Duracell lasts 10^-308 seconds on "Power Save" mode.

  • Well... (Score:5, Funny)

    by yoshi1013 ( 674815 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:55PM (#6997368) Homepage
    What if they started off by marketing them to people who live in cold regions?

    "With the new Powerbook G5, you'll never find your hands cramping up during long typing sessions again! The CPU/hand warmer keeps you going during even the coldest of temperatures!"

    • I've always said that the advantage of the 12" PowerBook was that I had a computer which could fry eggs and heat coffee.

      I haven't seen a computer that could do /that/ come out of Apple since the PowerBook 5300! Talk about versatility!
      • plus you do not need an additional frying pan. the aluminum top makes a great cooking surface with only the addition of some butter or olive oil.

        also good for grilling steaks, and with two 12" powerbooks, you can cook both sides of whatever george-foreman-grill style.

  • Can't wait (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Damn_Canuck ( 702128 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:55PM (#6997370) Journal
    By the time the G5 Powerbooks come out, I think I might be able to actually afford a Macintosh laptop system. Here in Canada, the Powerbooks are at least $2300, and the iBooks are at least $1400. Right now, this is not feasible. But, by the time the cooling system works properly, I might be able to scrape up the thousands of dollars required.

    I do applaud Apple for not releasing information on products that it is unsure about, including these G5 laptops. They have strongly hinted in the article that they are looking at it, but they did not make any promises as to when it will be released. This way, they are not forced to rush production which would result in an inferior product. They are going to make sure they have quality over timeframe, which is something some other software companies should learn. Before you set a release date, get a demo/prototype done, and do at least a minimal level of testing!

  • #1 reason to buy a mac (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:56PM (#6997372)
    no one wants to hack it

  • But does it... (Score:4, Funny)

    by jbardell ( 677791 ) <(moc.oohay) (ta) (68lledrabj)> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:56PM (#6997379)


    ...run MacOS? :-P

  • Do I smell burning crotches? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:57PM (#6997382)
    Actually, I don't smell them (as in actively seek them out and sniff them -- that's someone else's job), but I ask rhetorically because if previous Apple laptop experience can be any guide, I expect to see more "Laptop burns man's crotch" stories. I saw one or two with their last generation.

  • Hot Pads (Score:5, Funny)

    by Gilmoure ( 18428 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:57PM (#6997384) Journal
    As hot as the G4 PowerBooks get, they'll need some hellacious cooling on these things. Maybe they'll come with a string you can use to whirl the PB around your head, like a bullroarer [amazon.com]. If it makes that cool sound, it'll be great.

    • Misconception: Where the heat is comming from (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Llywelyn ( 531070 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:05PM (#6997473) Homepage
      > As hot as the G4 PowerBooks get, they'll need some
      > hellacious cooling on these things.

      While I realize that the parent post is a joke, this is a fairly common misconception I figured should be addressed eventually.

      The reason why PowerBook G4 systems get hot tends to be the hard drive and has little (if anything) to do with the processor (which runs at a much lower temperature than anything Intel has offered in years).

      • Re:Misconception: Where the heat is comming from (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mkldev ( 219128 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:32PM (#6997697) Homepage
        When people ask me about the temperature of the PowerPC processor, I like to tell them two stories.

        #1. Where I work, engineers have a tendency to run their PowerMac machines 24x7 with the side open. No fan cooling the CPU. None. Try that with any PC processor, and it'll be toast (or at least shut itself off).

        #2. Where I used to work, every trade show, we'd trot out an embedded PowerPC with... I think a G3 core. Guess what it didn't have on it? Fan? No, try again. Heatsink? Yup. No fan, no heatsink, and it was only slightly warm to the touch. You can probably imagine the shock on people's faces when we invinted them to touch a running CPU, forget the look of sheer confusion when it sat at about 38C. :-)

        So yeah, PowerPC processors are not particularly hot, relatively speaking. The northbridge and GPU are both generally far hotter; any heat that you might feel is likely from one of those two.

  • It's called processor cycling (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Shinzaburo ( 416221 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @02:58PM (#6997397) Homepage
    The desktop Power Mac G5 already does processor cycling in order to keep the noise/temperature/performance balance at an optimal level. Clearly a similar function will be used in the PowerBook G5, just as nearly every Wintel notebook on the market today does.

    I sold a Vaio R505 that would whine up and down loudly depending on whether you were scrolling through a web page or just sitting there reading it. I just couldn't take it anymore. When it comes to choosing performance or noise level, I usually choose to have a quieter machine. But hopefully Apple, unlike Sony, will allow an easy way to control which gets priority.

  • heat sinks! (Score:2, Offtopic)

    by BWJones ( 18351 )
    He's said that a G5 powerbook is "an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook".

    Well, yeah! Have any of you seen the heat sinks in the G5? They are absolutely huge making it very difficult to get enough cooling into a tiny space with the current chips. Furthermore, the heat sink size is combined with a rather clever cooling arrangment in the G5 case making for a quiet environment. Even going back to the origi
  • they want to make a g5 powerbook but the current chips are too hot.

    solution: cooling??!??!?!? :D

    seriously, not a lot to discuss. the cool part of that article is the info that panther will run dolby 5.1 out the optical port. that's very intriguing for music makers/sound engineers and people who watch a lot of movies on the comp. i'd definitely like to hear more about that.

  • If they're musing about it in public... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Space Coyote ( 413320 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:04PM (#6997462) Homepage
    ... then they aren't working on anything remotely resembling a product. If they were they'd be keeping very quiet about it all. This article has the tone of GM execs talking about flying cars.
  • I like my Compaq X1000 [com.com] just fine thank you. 6.5 Lbs. 15.4 screen. 1.5" thick. A G4 chaser for sure, but does anyone really need the power of a G5 in a notebook?

    • Re:No Thanks (Score:5, Funny)

      by nat5an ( 558057 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:14PM (#6997554) Homepage
      Well of course not! Don't be silly! And 640K of RAM ought to be enough for anyone!

    • Re:No Thanks (Score:4, Insightful)

      by v_1matst ( 166486 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:20PM (#6997595) Homepage
      "but does anyone really need the power of a G5 in a notebook?"

      ummm... yes. Some people use their laptops as their primary machine and some people actually use them for more than just web browsing, pr0n and mp3s. I know plenty of people who need quite a bit of processing power (mostly animators and musicians/producers) and the portability of a laptop. The g4 powerbook has been the choice of many, and I'm sure they would welcome the g5.

      Asking if anyone 'really needs' X is -NOT- a good argument against X.

  • Quotes (Score:2, Funny)

    by vasqzr ( 619165 )
    "an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook"

    Sounds like...."One day, computers will only take up one room in a house and cost under $100,000" the old Popular Science quote.
  • can't you just imagine a beowulf cluster of G5 Powerbooks?

    err, maybe that should be "imagine a cluster of imaginary G5 Powerbooks".

    or maybe, "imagine how much heat your lap would be subjected to with a cluster of ..."

    ahh, nevermind...

  • they could do it today but it'd be a rough sell (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:15PM (#6997563)
    They could make one with a G5 tomorrow. But, it would only be maybe a little over 1GHz (10-15 watt range for the G5)*. That is certainly doable in a laptop and Apple has made them in that power range before. Ufortunately, the clock speed won't be any higher than the G4 and you wouldn't be able to take advantage of huge amounts of RAM (that won't happen for years). So, from a marketing perspective the G4 is still an easier sell.

    People just assume that G5 consumes this enormous amount of power because of all the fans in the G5 desktop. This isn't true. Even the 2G takes only about 40 watts or so. One P4 3G takes in the range of 80 watts of power. All of the extra G5 fans are to make the cooling quieter.

    *note that in the PC world 20-30 watt peak power consumption has been considered useable in a laptop.

    • Finally!! (Score:5, Informative)

      by green pizza ( 159161 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @04:48PM (#6998401) Homepage
      People just assume that G5 consumes this enormous amount of power because of all the fans in the G5 desktop. This isn't true. Even the 2G takes only about 40 watts or so. One P4 3G takes in the range of 80 watts of power. All of the extra G5 fans are to make the cooling quieter.

      I'm glad to see someone finally point this out. The exact wattage number is 46.7 watts for the 2 GHz PowerPC 970 "G5" running at full speed (2GHz CPU and a 2:1 multipler for a 1 GHz FSB).

      A 2.4 GHz P4 (400 MHz FSB) uses 62 watts, newer P4s use even more. Prescott is expected to use 100 - 105 watts. (And this is totally ignoring the even further power needs of the "extreme" edition with its added transistors for on-die L3 cache)

      Apple has always seemed to overengineer the heatsinks and fans in their desktop model, for about as long as I can remember. Oddly, many of the PowerBooks use a much different "transfer the heat from the CPU, Chipset, and GPU right to the bottom of the case" cooling method.

  • IBM announcement of a new G5 revision sure signal (Score:5, Insightful)

    by danigiri ( 310827 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:16PM (#6997566)
    Yeah. But...

    We can only start to hold our collective breaths (for a significant time) until IBM kinda announces a G5 revision that's suspiciously low-power and is much cooler (surely helped with some of the latest IBM fab breakthroughs). They might or might not talk the same Moto gibberish of aiming at the embedded market, blah blah.

    Only then Rubinstein and his faeries can reasonably start to work their magic. Supposedly, once bi'blue hints them they can start engineering the wondruous shrinkage of the original G5 motherboard without actually having a G5' sample. After that heroic feat, that industrial design archangel [apple.com] and his minions will come down and design yet another striking enclosure...

    By then, a couple of revisions of the motherboard will have shipped, as well as a couple of G5 tower speed bumps. Besides, one might expect that preceding the mobile G5 we will see the infamous speedy G3+Altivec (IBM's G4) that bi'blue is secretly eager to hurl into Motto's face, to prove their incompetence.

    My two eurocents. You can safely spend your money now

    dani++

  • I'm really waiting for... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by foo fighter ( 151863 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:16PM (#6997567) Homepage
    ...OS X 10.3 to ship preinstalled.

    About that time the major quirks will be worked out of the G5 desktop hardware and it'll be safe to run Panther on. I've heard many stories (vocal minority, yada yada) with bad endings about people trying to get OS X (10.0 to .1, .1 to .2, 9 to any 10.x) upgrades to work on their G4s.

    I'm drooling heavily over the dual-G5, but I'm not going to buy it without the new OS.

    I really hate upgrading operating systems. It's a safe bet you'll have a smoother experience with the new software by just installing it from scratch.

    Or better yet, having the manufacturer install it for you.

  • Note to self (Score:3, Funny)

    by bigjnsa500 ( 575392 ) <[moc.oohay] [ta] [005asnjgib]> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:18PM (#6997577) Homepage Journal
    Do not use laptop while nude or Mr. Pecker will get burned, like this d00d [warphead.com]
  • At least thats what they could say and just do what IBM has done with their Thinkpad MAMOTH series (the ones that are like 8lbs, but have a real P4 in them)

    Either way I think their wide screen idea (17" laptop) is fucking HUGE but very sexy and easy on the eyes.
    • At least thats what they could say and just do what IBM has done with their Thinkpad MAMOTH series (the ones that are like 8lbs, but have a real P4 in them)

      There is no "one-size-fits-all" for laptops. Different users have different needs. A road warrior who is flying 2 or 3 times a week probably wants as lightweight a machine as he can get away with. And he is will to trade screen size, processor speed, and keyboard comfort for a few less pounds to drag through the airport.

      Other people like a laptop

  • There's Hot, And Then There's Really Hot (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rsmith-mac ( 639075 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:20PM (#6997601)
    While putting the current .13 micron G5 in a laptop would be hard, it's not impossible. The chip itself is hot, but at lower speeds, it's not particularly hot. Desktop P4's are being put in to laptops, and those do upwards of 90wts of heat(with Prescott set to surpass 100wts), which makes for a hot laptop, but isn't impossible, as it results in a powerful "desktop replacement" machine.

    The reason we're not seeing a PB G5 is because the kind of "desktop replacements" being made out of P4's are unreasonable as far as Apple's concerned. Apple wants something sleek, and they're willing to wait for it. Still, compared to the P4, the G5 is far less of a challenge to implement in to a laptop.

  • A G5 by any other name. (Score:5, Informative)

    by flux4 ( 157463 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:28PM (#6997671) Homepage
    Remember, no-one has said that we'll see the Desktop G5 processor (a PowerPC 970) in a portable form-factor. Just like we never, ever saw the first Desktop G4's processor (a PowerPC 7400) in a PowerBook. What the portables got were more power efficient, less hot chips -- like the PowerPC 7410, which popped up in the first titanium PowerBooks.

    Since Apple can still call these revised chips "G4", "G5", etc, it may seem like they've accomplished this incredible engineering feat in getting the big ol' chip inside that teeny case -- but the first breakthrough is the improved processor, over at Moto or IBM. They still have thier work cut out for them, but at least Apple doesn't need to ring the entire case with fans...

  • G3 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Phroggy ( 441 ) <slashdot3@NOsPaM.phroggy.com> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @03:30PM (#6997679) Homepage
    What I'm really looking forward to is, apparently IBM is working on adding an AltiVec-compatible SIMD unit to the G3 processor, and ramping up the clock speed. A couple of those would make a sweet laptop.

  • G5: only one CD drive? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PhilHibbs ( 4537 ) <snarks@gmail.com> on Thursday September 18, 2003 @04:06PM (#6998049) Journal
    The only thing stopping me going out and buying a G5 right now is the fact that it only has one CD/DVD drive bay. I had a go on one at the week-end, and nearly drooled on the floor.

  • But will they ship with (Score:5, Funny)

    by w3weasel ( 656289 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @04:25PM (#6998211) Homepage
    Asbestos iPants?

  • Sure...for $4000 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @04:44PM (#6998373)
    A decently configured G4 PowerBook is $2599. That's as much as a G5 desktop already. I fully expect G5 PowerBooks to start at $2999 and extend past $4000.

  • No Apples to Apples comparison. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nobodyman ( 90587 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @06:27PM (#6999163) Homepage
    Apple keeps publishing benchmarks that compare the G5 to a Pentium 4. I can appreciate that Apple is trying to woo the pc crowd but these figures don't really interest me.

    I am already an owner of a G4, and I don't want to purchase a G5 until I know that it's worth the money. How much faster is it? 25%? 50%? I usually don't upgrade until I can double performance for the same amount of money as what I paid for my current computer.

    Does anyone know where any G4 vs. G5 specs are posted?

  • Why people buy Mac's (Score:5, Informative)

    by ducomputergeek ( 595742 ) on Thursday September 18, 2003 @07:21PM (#6999604)
    Last year I purchased a top of the line 14.1" ibook with 700Mhz G3 and 640MB ram, combo drive and Airport card. If I am using say iTunes, iMovie and Photoshop, the lower left hand corner will get a little warm and the fan kicks into overdrive, but that is after 3 or 4 hours of running all those apps. I bought this to replace a Viao Z505 ultra thin. I loved the 1"thick and 3.5 pounds, but even with a pentium 233, the damn thing would almost burn me if I left it on for too long and windows would crash due to overheating. I say someone saying how they had 1.3Ghz PIII laptop a while ago, that's nice, but can I tell a difference in say PowerPoint between my 700Mhz G3 and a 1 Ghz Althon? Not really and my mac has crashed twice in the last year. Once I was trying to see what it would take (photoshop, itunes, imovie, Golive, and FCP and then launch a classic app...that did it). I can close my laptop and reopen it without it crashing like on my old laptop. I reset my ibook only after downloading updates every two weeks or so. At one point it had an uptime of over 28 days. That's 28 days of open, close, open, close and the system began doing strange things. I guess 1 reset a month isn't that bad for a laptop. Now I design webpages for living deployed on *iux based servers. Being able to develop in a *iux enviroment and still have tools like Photoshop and Dreamweaver/flash is a tremendous advantage to me and a feature that I will pay a little more for. Another issue is TCO. One the clients I met with today does video production and he is still using a G3 500 and uses FCP and PS on a daily basis. He's had the machine almost 5 years and can still purchase new software. Will it run as fast as a G4, no, but as he said, if it takes 4 hours to render a video, I go fishing and come back. One other photographer switched to using Dell's, but quickly found that he was upgrading about every 18 months compared to 24 - 36 with Macs and even though the hardware costs are cheaper, but he said that he was losing a lot more time with system crashes and is considering going back to Mac's and getting a dual G5. This laptop will proable last me another two years with proably a new battery needed in that time, but maybe at that time I will consider a powerbook and a g5 will be in it.

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