G5 PowerBook "Challenge" 529
CarlBenda writes "MacWorld/UK has some interesting quotes from Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of Hardware Engineering at Apple concerning the possibility of a G5 powerbook. He's said that a G5 powerbook is "an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook". Start saving your money."
"I'm not dead yet.." (Score:5, Insightful)
A G5 PowerBook.. not bad for a company that has been dying for 20+ years according to the trolls.
Re:"I'm not dead yet.." (Score:5, Insightful)
They were nearly dead until Jobs came back. Apple before the iMac had one foot in the grave. Now the company is doing high quality engineering and top notch marketing.
Re:"I'm not dead yet.." (Score:5, Interesting)
9 Fans (Score:2, Informative)
Re:9 Fans (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:9 Fans (Score:3, Informative)
I disagree. The G5 case is designed very similarly to the high-end UNIX workstations (Sun Blade 2000, Ultra 80, etc.), where optimum cooling and reliability are high priority (let's not flame about no ECC in the G5...oops).
Using a laptop hard drive, battery, etc. along with a slightly powered-down G5 would be very feasible in a laptop. Third-party manufacturers did this for the UltraSPARC
Re:9 Fans (Score:5, Informative)
The PowerPC G5 at 1.8 GHz dissipates 42 watts of power. That's about the same as the G4 at 1.25 GHz... which is now shipping in a PowerBook.
Re:9 Fans (Score:5, Informative)
The challenge (Score:5, Funny)
Is that the challenge? To save enough money to buy a Mac? That is going to be tough.
Dammit (Score:5, Funny)
Um... okay? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Funny)
(I'm pretty sure that's the logic, anyway.)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Insightful)
no. apple was always cool. it's just that people are only starting to realize it now. think about it:
and, despite all this, the computers still look nice.
very cool indeed!
Always? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Always? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Informative)
Acorn in the UK developed its own RISC processor (Acorn Risc Processor or ARM - sound familiar?) and released their first computer using it in 1987. It was, what, 5-6 years later or so that Apple released its first PowerPC machine?
Of course, the A in ARM has been replaced with "Advanced", but Acorn were still the first company to bring out a RISC based personal computer.
Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Informative)
ARM was established in November 1990 as Advanced RISC Machines Ltd., a UK-based joint venture between Apple Computer, Acorn Computer Group and VLSI Technology. Apple and VLSI both provided funding, while Acorn supplied the technology and ARM's 12 founding engineers. Acorn, developer of the world's first commercial single-chip RISC processor, and Apple, intent on advancing the use of RISC technology in its own systems, chartered ARM with creating a new microprocessor standard. ARM immediately differentiated itself in the market by creating the first low-cost RISC architecture. Conversely, competing architectures, which were more commonly focused on maximizing performance, were first used in high-end workstations.
http://www.mobileimperative.com/documents.asp?d
Re:Um... okay? (Score:3, Funny)
My G4 is not cool. It heats up the flippin' room. My cat curls up behind the fan vent like there was a crackling fire behind the grille.
Before that, my 604e/180 dualie cranked out more heat than your average BLU-118/B thermobaric-tipped ordinance.
Great machines, yes. Cool, no.
Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Informative)
Now, this has already been settled in court. Apple claimed to have released the first Risc PC, oh, two years after Acorn released a home machine actually called the "Risc PC", based on the ARM6 RISC processor. The court stopped Apple from making the claim, and awarded a nominal sum of compensation.
Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Funny)
You have to admit, though, that pre OS X, telling your average
Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Informative)
1. The VIC-20 shipped in 1980 [commodore.ca] and the Commodore 64 in 1982 [emugaming.com]. The Apple I shipped in 1976 [apple2history.org] and Apple II in 1977 [apple2history.org].
2. The Amiga didn't ship until September 1985 [emugaming.com]. The Macintosh shipped in January 1984 (remember the SuperBowl ad?).
3. The Amiga used the same Motorola 680x0 CISC chips the old Macs did. Only the new ones are PowerPC-based. Apple has been shipping PowerMacs since 1994.
Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:3, Insightful)
Darwin also runs on x86 hardware, although support is VERY limited.
Apple's hardware isn't overpriced when you compare it to competing hardware with similar specs. The first problem is, Apple doesn't make low-end machines, so when you compare a low-end PC to a mid-range Mac, yeah, the Mac is more expensive. The second problem is, Motorola sucks: Apple's mid-range Macs are slower than mid-range PCs with similar features and price, so y
Re:Um... okay? (Score:4, Funny)
Hey man, what have you got agaist cheese graters?
The new G5 features the Remington Microscreen. Apparently, Steve Jobs was so impressed, he bought the company!
Re:Um... okay? (Score:2)
You're right though, how DID this make the front page? It's not news, it's wankery.
Re:Um... okay? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Um... okay? (Score:5, Funny)
Great Powerbooks await (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, they'd better make sure they sort out that heat problem that the current 12" G4 Powerbooks suffer from.
Re:Great Powerbooks await (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Great Powerbooks await (Score:5, Informative)
I'm typing on a 12" G4 right now. I've pounded on the CPU pretty hard, and the only time it seems to get hot is if I set it on a blanket or something rather than on a surface where the heat can actually efficiently dissipate. That's a problem with all notebooks, not just Apples.
The 12" G4 is no hotter, and in fact seems to feel a bit cooler, than the Dell Inspiron 5000 PIII notebook that it replaced.
Here's how I tested (Score:5, Informative)
As a laptop user my #1 priority is being able to use it comfortably. The Aluminum Powerbook was too hot (12"), the 17" was tolerable, and the 15" Titanium was a dream (paint chips are not acceptable either). So I chose to wait for the new Al 15" and when my local CompUSA eventually has one on display (3-4 months from now) I'll see if it's cool enough. I bought a 900MHz iBook instead and it stays relatively cool. Hell maybe I'll just wait another year and hope for the G5 powerbooks.
I'd rather have these things than a hot laptop:
Less speed (Apple already has this covered, My PIII from 2 1/2 years ago is 1.2GHz)
More Fans/Noise
Less attractive case (design is for girls, I'll take ugly and cool over cute and hot every day).
Larger/heavier case.
Re:Here's how I tested (Score:3, Funny)
De gustibus non est disputandum.
Bullwhoey (Score:3, Informative)
After about 10 minutes of running any cpu-intensive activity, my PB 17" is typically between 130 degrees and 140- the fan kicks in around 140, shuts off at 130. It's been sitting on my desk all day doing next to nothing(I've occasionally queued up some mp3s) and it's at 110.3 according to Temperature Monitor.
Using it on my lap, say, while on the couch, with any kind of activity, and it'll quickly get rather warm. Playing a movie or AVI file is an excellent way
More like... (Score:5, Funny)
Well... (Score:5, Funny)
"With the new Powerbook G5, you'll never find your hands cramping up during long typing sessions again! The CPU/hand warmer keeps you going during even the coldest of temperatures!"
Re:Well... (Score:2)
I haven't seen a computer that could do
Re:Well... (Score:2)
also good for grilling steaks, and with two 12" powerbooks, you can cook both sides of whatever george-foreman-grill style.
Can't wait (Score:5, Insightful)
I do applaud Apple for not releasing information on products that it is unsure about, including these G5 laptops. They have strongly hinted in the article that they are looking at it, but they did not make any promises as to when it will be released. This way, they are not forced to rush production which would result in an inferior product. They are going to make sure they have quality over timeframe, which is something some other software companies should learn. Before you set a release date, get a demo/prototype done, and do at least a minimal level of testing!
#1 reason to buy a mac (Score:4, Insightful)
But does it... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:But does it... (Score:2)
Only in BlueBox.
Do I smell burning crotches? (Score:3, Funny)
Hot Pads (Score:5, Funny)
Misconception: Where the heat is comming from (Score:5, Interesting)
> hellacious cooling on these things.
While I realize that the parent post is a joke, this is a fairly common misconception I figured should be addressed eventually.
The reason why PowerBook G4 systems get hot tends to be the hard drive and has little (if anything) to do with the processor (which runs at a much lower temperature than anything Intel has offered in years).
Re:Misconception: Where the heat is comming from (Score:5, Interesting)
#1. Where I work, engineers have a tendency to run their PowerMac machines 24x7 with the side open. No fan cooling the CPU. None. Try that with any PC processor, and it'll be toast (or at least shut itself off).
#2. Where I used to work, every trade show, we'd trot out an embedded PowerPC with... I think a G3 core. Guess what it didn't have on it? Fan? No, try again. Heatsink? Yup. No fan, no heatsink, and it was only slightly warm to the touch. You can probably imagine the shock on people's faces when we invinted them to touch a running CPU, forget the look of sheer confusion when it sat at about 38C. :-)
So yeah, PowerPC processors are not particularly hot, relatively speaking. The northbridge and GPU are both generally far hotter; any heat that you might feel is likely from one of those two.
It's called processor cycling (Score:5, Interesting)
I sold a Vaio R505 that would whine up and down loudly depending on whether you were scrolling through a web page or just sitting there reading it. I just couldn't take it anymore. When it comes to choosing performance or noise level, I usually choose to have a quieter machine. But hopefully Apple, unlike Sony, will allow an easy way to control which gets priority.
Re:It's called processor cycling (Score:5, Funny)
Well sure. No one likes whiners. But if Apple could license the Harley-Davidson sound
Re:It's called processor cycling (Score:5, Informative)
They already do: [apple.com]
"In addition, the Power Mac G5 computer allows the user to control bus slewing mode. The options for specifying either high, reduced, or automatic processor and bus speeds are located at System Preferences>Energy Saver>Options; then select Automatic, Highest, or Reduced."
~Philly
Re:It's called processor cycling (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's called processor cycling (Score:5, Funny)
-- Apple Records
heat sinks! (Score:2, Offtopic)
Well, yeah! Have any of you seen the heat sinks in the G5? They are absolutely huge making it very difficult to get enough cooling into a tiny space with the current chips. Furthermore, the heat sink size is combined with a rather clever cooling arrangment in the G5 case making for a quiet environment. Even going back to the origi
to summarize: (Score:2)
solution: cooling??!??!?!?
seriously, not a lot to discuss. the cool part of that article is the info that panther will run dolby 5.1 out the optical port. that's very intriguing for music makers/sound engineers and people who watch a lot of movies on the comp. i'd definitely like to hear more about that.
If they're musing about it in public... (Score:5, Insightful)
No Thanks (Score:2)
Re:No Thanks (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
ummm... yes. Some people use their laptops as their primary machine and some people actually use them for more than just web browsing, pr0n and mp3s. I know plenty of people who need quite a bit of processing power (mostly animators and musicians/producers) and the portability of a laptop. The g4 powerbook has been the choice of many, and I'm sure they would welcome the g5.
Asking if anyone 'really needs' X is -NOT- a good argument against X.
Quotes (Score:2, Funny)
Sounds like...."One day, computers will only take up one room in a house and cost under $100,000" the old Popular Science quote.
even though they don't exist yet... (Score:2, Troll)
err, maybe that should be "imagine a cluster of imaginary G5 Powerbooks".
or maybe, "imagine how much heat your lap would be subjected to with a cluster of
ahh, nevermind...
they could do it today but it'd be a rough sell (Score:5, Insightful)
People just assume that G5 consumes this enormous amount of power because of all the fans in the G5 desktop. This isn't true. Even the 2G takes only about 40 watts or so. One P4 3G takes in the range of 80 watts of power. All of the extra G5 fans are to make the cooling quieter.
*note that in the PC world 20-30 watt peak power consumption has been considered useable in a laptop.
Finally!! (Score:5, Informative)
I'm glad to see someone finally point this out. The exact wattage number is 46.7 watts for the 2 GHz PowerPC 970 "G5" running at full speed (2GHz CPU and a 2:1 multipler for a 1 GHz FSB).
A 2.4 GHz P4 (400 MHz FSB) uses 62 watts, newer P4s use even more. Prescott is expected to use 100 - 105 watts. (And this is totally ignoring the even further power needs of the "extreme" edition with its added transistors for on-die L3 cache)
Apple has always seemed to overengineer the heatsinks and fans in their desktop model, for about as long as I can remember. Oddly, many of the PowerBooks use a much different "transfer the heat from the CPU, Chipset, and GPU right to the bottom of the case" cooling method.
IBM announcement of a new G5 revision sure signal (Score:5, Insightful)
We can only start to hold our collective breaths (for a significant time) until IBM kinda announces a G5 revision that's suspiciously low-power and is much cooler (surely helped with some of the latest IBM fab breakthroughs). They might or might not talk the same Moto gibberish of aiming at the embedded market, blah blah.
Only then Rubinstein and his faeries can reasonably start to work their magic. Supposedly, once bi'blue hints them they can start engineering the wondruous shrinkage of the original G5 motherboard without actually having a G5' sample. After that heroic feat, that industrial design archangel [apple.com] and his minions will come down and design yet another striking enclosure...
By then, a couple of revisions of the motherboard will have shipped, as well as a couple of G5 tower speed bumps. Besides, one might expect that preceding the mobile G5 we will see the infamous speedy G3+Altivec (IBM's G4) that bi'blue is secretly eager to hurl into Motto's face, to prove their incompetence.
My two eurocents. You can safely spend your money now
dani++
I'm really waiting for... (Score:3, Insightful)
About that time the major quirks will be worked out of the G5 desktop hardware and it'll be safe to run Panther on. I've heard many stories (vocal minority, yada yada) with bad endings about people trying to get OS X (10.0 to
I'm drooling heavily over the dual-G5, but I'm not going to buy it without the new OS.
I really hate upgrading operating systems. It's a safe bet you'll have a smoother experience with the new software by just installing it from scratch.
Or better yet, having the manufacturer install it for you.
Note to self (Score:3, Funny)
Fuck It! (Score:2)
Either way I think their wide screen idea (17" laptop) is fucking HUGE but very sexy and easy on the eyes.
A laptop for every lap (Score:3, Insightful)
There is no "one-size-fits-all" for laptops. Different users have different needs. A road warrior who is flying 2 or 3 times a week probably wants as lightweight a machine as he can get away with. And he is will to trade screen size, processor speed, and keyboard comfort for a few less pounds to drag through the airport.
Other people like a laptop
There's Hot, And Then There's Really Hot (Score:5, Interesting)
The reason we're not seeing a PB G5 is because the kind of "desktop replacements" being made out of P4's are unreasonable as far as Apple's concerned. Apple wants something sleek, and they're willing to wait for it. Still, compared to the P4, the G5 is far less of a challenge to implement in to a laptop.
A G5 by any other name. (Score:5, Informative)
Since Apple can still call these revised chips "G4", "G5", etc, it may seem like they've accomplished this incredible engineering feat in getting the big ol' chip inside that teeny case -- but the first breakthrough is the improved processor, over at Moto or IBM. They still have thier work cut out for them, but at least Apple doesn't need to ring the entire case with fans...
G3 (Score:5, Interesting)
G5: only one CD drive? (Score:4, Insightful)
But will they ship with (Score:5, Funny)
Sure...for $4000 (Score:3, Interesting)
No Apples to Apples comparison. (Score:3, Insightful)
I am already an owner of a G4, and I don't want to purchase a G5 until I know that it's worth the money. How much faster is it? 25%? 50%? I usually don't upgrade until I can double performance for the same amount of money as what I paid for my current computer.
Does anyone know where any G4 vs. G5 specs are posted?
Why people buy Mac's (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:2, Interesting)
Otherwise, who cares about a roadmap? Are you really going to put off some major hardware provisioning decision because a roadmap claims (key word) that they will have such and such a product out by a certain time? They are almost always adjusted.
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm just happy I can be x86-free on the road!
Make up your own roadmaps (Score:5, Interesting)
Since you seem to accept that roadmaps are often works of fiction, why not make up your own roadmap? Hmm, the interval between previous generations of iPods was x, so I project the next revision will be in the month of y. Then, if you delay a purchase after looking at your roadmap, you will be happy if the roadmap was accurate and new models arrived when you projected them. And if your roadmap was inaccurate, you have only yourself to blame.
If Apple published a roadmap that they didn't live up to, everybody would be unhappy about it. And there are lots of reasons why they might not introduce new models by the projected date. A manufacturer always incurs additional costs in introducing a new model so they would prefer to keep selling the old model as long as they can. If the old model is still selling well, why bother introducing a new model at all?
Re:Make up your own roadmaps (Score:3, Informative)
Note that, for Apple products, various sites already do this for you:
Re:Make up your own roadmaps (Score:3, Insightful)
Accually Apple doesn't do this which is yet another reason to admire them. They release new cool stuff because they can and release updated stuff when it's ready. Unlike other certain tech companies they don't sit on updates just because they want to milk as much money from the old tech as possible. Apple leads the market in many ways, a position it wouldn't hold for long if it started doing that.
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:4, Interesting)
With Apple, they upgrade their product line and promptly discontinue production of the old products which means that there is no lower tier which would reap the decreased cost benefit of the upgrades. Because of this, it's not in Apple's best interest to announce upgraded product lines ahead of time because it would have a chilling effect on the sales of the products they've already produced. This phenomenon can also be noted in the game console industry where price cuts may be rumored for a while but no confirmation announcement will be handed down until the price cuts take place. For example, if Nintendo announced today that as of October 1st the Gamecube would be $99 instead of $150, that would be tantamount to Nintendo saying "You shouldn't buy a Gamecube until next month."
Well, they don't want to hurt current sales... (Score:4, Insightful)
If they were like, "the G5 Powerbooks will be coming out in 6 months", they would have a hard time selling any full-priced G4 laptops. So they wait as long as possible. It's the same reason car companies disguise their prototypes.
I bought a Powerbook 12" right before they announced additional price cuts for education users back in May... but if they announced it too early, it hurts sales. Of course, I bought 2nd gen iPod for 50% off after the 3rd gen ones came out, so when knowledge is out their, buyers can win - but then apple loses.
Re:Well, they don't want to hurt current sales... (Score:3, Interesting)
Car companies don't disguise their prototypes. I think you are thinking of concept vehicles, which they usually say, "This will never be released." then release a similar model the following year. If you will notice car companies change styles every 4-5 years. That's the lifespan of any particular vehicle style, and after that it gets a moderate change. You can expect that. It's usually a cosmetic change and a few gadget features.
Apple on
Re:Well, they don't want to hurt current sales... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure they do. And just as with computer-related rumors, there are folks [geocities.com] out there [imakenews.com] who follow and report on new developments and publish photos of suspected prototypes.
Yes, auto makers will show you their 'concept cars' as a way to generate interest. And they'll sometimes show actual prototypes as well, particularly when the prototype is close to what they expect to produce. But when GM or Ford are testing out a new engine, for example, they'll put it in a car
Re:Well, they don't want to hurt current sales... (Score:3, Insightful)
You can build a consumer vehicle prototype for around $100K. Even going up to the Cadillac Cien you are going to be less than a million. You don't retool a production line, you just custom build a car, though.
What you see at auto shows, real, high end, or otherwise, are most often meant for use at... auto shows.
Uh...
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:3, Informative)
These kinds of statements always make me think of this scenario:
Guy: dude, we're gonna be late, let go!
Driver: yeah, but I need gas. Gas is high today; it should go down tomorrow, I'll buy it then and then we can go
Guy:
Driver: I know, I know; but gas is too much! I'll save more if I wait and buy it tomorrow!
....
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lack of Apple roadmaps is frustrating (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:make it run linux! (Score:2, Funny)
Uh... oh wait....
Re:make it run linux! (Score:2)
so then (Score:2, Informative)
We do have X11 [apple.com], you know.
You forgot (Score:2, Funny)
5. Profit!!!
2.1 speakers? (Score:3, Interesting)
I notice the $350 set of 5.1 speakers they're offering at the Apple Store to go along with the G5 machines, but does anyone know of any optical-connecting 2.1 speakers that might cost a bit less? I have no need for 5.1 sound, and 2.1 would be more than sufficient, but I'd like to take advantage of the new optical connections...
Re:GREAT (Score:3, Informative)
Re:G4 too hot (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What a lack of a story... (Score:5, Funny)
Not true.
But this is such a non-story it shouldn't have even been posted here.
True.
There are already CPUs in laptops today that can give the G5 a run for its money.
Not true.
They may not have great battery life, but heat issues have been taken care of.
Not true.
There's nothing unique about the G5 that makes it any more difficult to get into a laptop than any other CPU design.
Not true.
That Apple is talking about a G5 laptop as if it's a big technical deal has me worried.
Not true.
The newly released Powerbooks are already up to half as slow as their Centrino counterparts which sport similar or better battery life.
Not true.
Perhaps the G5 Powerbook won't see the light of day until next fall when the G4 Powerbook will be tremendously outclassed.
You can hope, you pointless troll.
Re:Apple commercials lie (Score:3, Insightful)
Go to an Apple store and say "Gimme that grater, yeahhh...
Or you can have one built to your specs - by your friends no doubt - which either won't match the G5's specs - but may very well be better in one or two area's FOR YOU - or can't run your run of the mill programs except in simulation mode - which sort of defeats the purpose.
There ar
Re:Undiscovered potential. (Score:3, Insightful)
The numbers I've seen, put the G5 at 40watts... And that's the DESKTOP processor. They might build a more-effecient portable version, just as the x86 boys do.
That means, the desktop processors is putting out about as much heat as as a PII 500MHz. Just for additional comparison, that's only 57% as much heat as higher-end AMD XP processors. The P4 puts out even more heat, making the G5 only 40% as hot and power-hungry as modern P4 processors.
So, in essence, a dual
User needs a new mouse (Score:3, Informative)
And I hope slashdotters will soon discover they can buy a 5-button scrollwheel mouse for, like, $12. Mac OS X is aware of 2+ button mice.
I don't know the exact reason Apple ships a one button mouse, but I think most people that complain about it have easily wasted more money in time than the cash it would take to buy a mouse.
Seriously, any USB mouse should work.
- Scott