Cell Phones May Spread Infections 286
CHaN_316 writes "Yahoo is running an article talking about how cell phones from health workers are helping spread dangerous infections in hospitals. 'They found that 12 percent of healthcare providers' cell phones were contaminated with [Acinetobacter baumannii]. The results are disturbing because [it] has the propensity to develop resistance to almost all available antibiotics ... Cell phones provide a large dry surface that allows survival of A. baumannii--it requires no nutrients ... [it] is found in intensive care units, and the mortality rate among infected patients is very high -- between 50 and 60 percent.' The hospital that conducted this research no longer allows the use of cell phones, and are switching to devices that don't require hand contact like pagers." So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, he wasn't. His ludicrous "telephone sanitizers" weren't made up. It's a normal part of British culture. Don't believe me? Get your telephone sanitizers here [completeclean.co.uk], here [hannantcleaning.co.uk] and here [fdev.co.uk]. All .co.uk addresses, natually.
Yes, it did blow my mind when I moved to the UK and discovered that this wasn't Douglas Adams fiction, it was sitting on every desk.
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:3, Informative)
Sitting on every desk? Bollocks. I'm sure they exist, but I've never seen them used in my life. Come off it, old chap.
Signed,
A. Brit
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:3, Insightful)
And your wallet and keys should be cleaned too.
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:2)
I think using an alcohol wipe on a cell phone would be just effective and prevent the nosocomial infections they are worried about.
Nurses, Aides and doctors aren't stupid. T
Re:Telephone Sanitizers are what we need... (Score:3, Informative)
Also, here is a link [tlb.org] to the history of the term "telephone sanitizer".
Already done. (Score:5, Funny)
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol
Samsung already has. They may not have intended it but mine has been accidently soaked in booze more times than I care to (or can) remember.
Re:Already done. (Score:2)
What about consumers? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What about consumers? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What about consumers? (Score:2)
Re:What about consumers? (Score:3, Informative)
EVIL Verizon Guy calls the hospital ICU... (Score:3, Funny)
Ring...
"Can you hear me now?"
"Good!"
EVIL Verizon Guy hangs up, cackles madly...
Re:EVIL Verizon Guy calls the hospital ICU... (Score:3, Funny)
"Good!"
*gurgle*
Bugs... (Score:2, Funny)
Ya (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Ya (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ya (Score:3, Informative)
Other things that will have the same problem:
Banning the offending object isn't the way ahead. Increasing awareness of the problem is much better.
Re:Ya (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of the biggest spreaders of disease, even as simple as the common cold or the flu, right on up to SARS, are everyday items such as computer keyboards, regular twisted pair phones, (especially payphones!), and even coinage!
This is why properly washing your hands often is so important in stopping the spread of contagious diseases.
Re:Ya (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ya (Score:2, Interesting)
For some people this is very true - for others we just don't care.
Having been the kid who always bit his fingers+nails, put his hands in his mouth and ate stuff that was a little too old/spilled on the floor etc. I've probably had very low doses of just about everything going.
By ensuring that you don't do things STUPIDLY dirty you can effectively vaccinate yourself against many things early in life
Re:Ya (Score:3, Insightful)
If the risk is brought to their attention, they wil react. Most are actuely aware of the special vector issues in a hospital. The banning of phones in the hospital was probably a little severe; just the knowledge of the risk
And I thouth the real reason... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:And I thouth the real reason... (Score:2)
People with permanent pacemakers use cell phones without problems. The signal dissipates by the inverse cube of the distance from the device. If they can't use the most minimal of shielding of equipment, cell phones are the least of their problems. (MRI and CAT scan machines, portable X-Ray machines, and wireless computers come to mind)
ericson phone (Score:5, Interesting)
Hand Contact? (Score:5, Insightful)
That would make a lot more sense.
No Hand Contact (Score:2)
Re:No Hand Contact (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Hand Contact? (Score:3, Interesting)
What is it about mobile phones in a hospital that they get infected, when all the other wall phones in the hospital that doctors will use to return pages won't get infected? Too me, as long as the bacteria is on the health care worker's hands, it will be e
Re:Hand Contact? (Score:2)
Well, makes sense to me... (Score:3, Funny)
I keep my pager in my desk drawer. When I'm not in the office, I set it to the most annoying ring/beep, and stick it up in a ceiling tile. Hilarity ensues for co-workers in office.
Actually... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, you can dunk your phone in alcohol right now if you wanted (minus the screen)... I was a part-time cell phone dealer about 2 years ago, whenever a phone had water damage or got dirty internally, all we did was take the phone apart, get a toothbrush and rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and start scrubbing away at the corrosion.
How about irradiation? (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe some internal parts would need to be shielded to withstand it, but the external surface could be sterilized that way.
Re:How about irradiation? (Score:3, Informative)
The problem with this is that any radiation (UV, X-ray, hard gammas) that you might choose to use to sterilize the telephone will also likely degrade the plastic from which it is constructed.
Depending on the particular composition of the telephone, radiation may cause either brittleness or softening of the plastic case and buttons. The clear display window will probably yellow or c
Re:How about irradiation? (Score:2)
Couldn't a cell phone just be sealed? (Score:2)
Re:Couldn't a cell phone just be sealed? (Score:2, Interesting)
It could just be thin cellophane in the shape of a tube sock, maybe even with a zip lock on one end. Even a flip-open phone could be put in flipped open, then shut (plastic would fold over inside it).
That way, you could dispose of the bag and not worry about getting a special phone or banning them in hospitals altogether.
Chris
Re:Couldn't a cell phone just be sealed? (Score:2)
but you still see rarely people using them, except when hiking&etc(doh).
i don't smoke but those bags are excellent place to store cigs too if you're camping(or on some stinky army prac camp).
And spreading divorce. (Score:3, Interesting)
Mobiles 'betray' cheating Italians [bbc.co.uk].
Re:And spreading divorce. (Score:3, Insightful)
News Flash! (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't news. This is fear-based ratings pandering by the source.
And what about Medical PDAs??? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sterile cell phones (Score:5, Interesting)
Heck, come to think of it, the plastic bag would let sound through without a problem. Just get a cell phone that you don't need to fold or unfold to use, and heat-seal it in a fresh sterile plastic bag every time you enter the hospital, and remove the plastic bag every time you leave. That would do the trick, wouldn't it?
Re:Sterile cell phones +5 interesting???????? (Score:3, Insightful)
(Duh. I can't believe I have to explain that one. Still, it was modded +5 Interesting so I suppose some folks just haven't got the ability to think about things for a microsecond or two.)
Dunking the user in alcohol has a number of merits though...:-)
Re:Sterile cell phones +5 interesting???????? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sterile cell phones (Score:3, Funny)
I think I'll call it Cell-O-Phone. Won't turn off those annoying rings, but it does dramatically reduce the volume of the speaker.
Cell phone contaminants (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, and next week... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well lets see here, send all the sick to one place, get the same subset of the population to treat them all and wierdly enough you get concentrations in infections (including all these wonderful antibiotic resistant/immune strains we are breeding with our idiotic farming and medical practices... but that's another rant for another day). Especially in and around those brave enough to be on the frontline as it were.
If you aren't sick, stay the hell away from hospitals or you will be.
Q.
Cell phones in hospitals?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cell phones in hospitals?? (Score:3, Informative)
There was some panic over this early on, but it turned out to be a minimal issue.
When I was working at a hospital, we did some testing of cellular devices and medical equipment. See, medical equipment gets an exemption from the regular FCC shielding requirements for some historical reason, and we all know if you're broadcasting interference you're an antenna too, and you don't have to accept interference if you'
sterilizable cell phones? (Score:5, Informative)
You could theoretically dip it in a biocide of some sort (they use stuff tougher than alcohol in operating rooms and on used surgical tools) but there's a "nook & cranny" problem. When designing non-metal surgical tools, you have to make sure you don't make any tiny cracks, holes, or grooves where stuff can cling and avoid the biocide. The last cell phone I saw had a lot of nooks and crannies. You'd possibly need to redesign one to be completely sealed, which is getting more feasible because of wireless battery charging technologies and wireless connectivity technologies.
Another alternative is that you could stick it in a sterile container and use it wirelessly, but then your wireless headset would still need to be sterilizable.
Re:sterilizable cell phones? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:sterilizable cell phones? (Score:2, Informative)
I couldn't agree more. When I did my alternative civilian service [Zivildienst] in a sheltered workshop [Werkstatt fr Behinderte], the handicapped people built the wiring harnesses for medical autoclaves from wire and crimp contacts. We had to rework the wiring harnesses several times, because the wires (mainly their electric insulation) and the contacts did not stand the conditions (heat and humidity) inside the autoclaves. The contacts corroded, the insulation melted or broke and caused short circuits, an
This is SO wrong! (Score:2)
As far as METALS not being able to withstand the heat? WTF? autoclaves only get to around 120 deg C and 10-15 atmospheres - pretty much ANY metal can withstand that - except I guess mercury ;-)
As far as sterilizing non-heat safe stuff, there is ethylene-oxide sterilization available - it's how most of our delicate electronic stuff (arthroscopy cameras, lenses, etc) is sterilized - lots o' nook
Use earbuds! (Score:2)
Why switch back to pagers, as the article suggests? Wire up with an earbud, get voice-activated dialing, and you're off and running without having to touch it all the time.
Banning cell phones is not the answer. (Score:2, Redundant)
The nasal passages of more than half the health care workers that work in a hospital for more than a year are colonized with MRSA (methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus).
Banning cell phones is not the answer. Universal precautions is. Universal precautions includes cleaning your hands and instruments after every single patient contact. How many health care workers do that, do you suppo
Re:Banning cell phones is not the answer. (Score:2)
So what's the tally now ... (Score:2)
Better hospital staff hygiene is the answer (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Better hospital staff hygiene is the answer (Score:2)
We used to take calculators into quarantine areas by sealing them in a plastic bag and discarding the bag along with our protective gear when we left. I could put my phone in a zip-lock, punch through it with the headset connector, and have most of the system inside protective gear. My headset has a "push to answer" doodad, so I don't have to even find the phone.
And the desk phones in the nurses stations are CESSPOOLS!
Ahem (Score:2)
Safone(tm) comes in handy 5-packs, in a choice of colours and flavours, and for only $19.50 you can get three packets now.
It's time to roll on your Safone now!!
Don't phonome, Safone!
Sterilizable cell phones. (Score:2, Insightful)
Do you mean something like Nokia 6250 [nokia.com]? Anyways, at least Finnish hospitals don't allow GSM phones on their premises. Worry about mixing radio transmitters and heart monitors, I guess.
Really.. (Score:2)
It's just like using other people's keyboards. You have NO idea where it has been or what it has been through
lucky me, i'm neurotic. (Score:5, Interesting)
c'mon people, any object that is carried -everywhere- or used daily (potentially used by or in the immediate proximity of sick people) provides an opportunity for disease to spread. particularly when it's something that people never clean.
i honestly hope no-one is surprised by this.
it's reminicent of the studies that surprised you all a few years back, that showed the average computer workstation is dirtier (bacteria) than the average bathroom.
primarily because: how often do you clean around your PC? actually picking it up, moving it around, and wiping it all down with sanitizing pads? (particularly keyboard,mouse,wrist pads,power buttons,etc)
ok, now how often do you wipe down your cell phone with a sanitizing pad? exactly.
your phone is almost certainly more filthy than your toilet. think about that.
and while you do your reactionary one time cleaning, don't forget your pager, pda, land-lines, av remotes, video gaming controllers, camera, keys, wallet, laptop, and car interior (radio, steering wheel,shifter,beltbuckler,door handles,etc).
me? my neuroses keeps me well protected from you damned dirty apes.
Re:lucky me, i'm neurotic. (Score:2)
in fact, mostly all you will do is weaken them, providing exactly what mr carlin is looking for.
has sanitation (via indoor plumbing), anti-bacterial soap, and better hygiene made human beings sicker or healthier since they were invented?
exactly, so you apply that gained knowledge from a thousand years of improved health (and non-depressed immune systems) to other places that disease hangs out.
sure, if you live in a bubble, you'll have problems. but i'm far from a
Hospitals (Score:2, Informative)
Simple... Do not use cellphones in hospitals.
All radio (send) devices in hospitals should be (and are in some hospitals) banned due to possible interferrence with sensative medical equipment.
Simple solution... (Score:2)
I fail to see why some people (nurses, health care workers) are allowed to use cell phones in a hospital, while most others are not.
Ban cell phones in hospitals, or at least require personnel to leave them switched off in their lockers, and the problem is solved... isn't it?
Just coat it with silver (Score:2)
Oh? (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously though...*doodeedooeeannoyingpolyphonicringTONE* "Hello? Yeah. Uh huh. Well I'm just working on a patient right now. Uh huh. A gallon of milk and some laundry detergent? Ok. Yes I'll remember. I said I'd remember! Last time? But... Yeah last time there was a big traffic jam and I just wanted to get home. Hold on for a sec, I need to install this catheter. Ok, I'm back. What do you mean I don't love you? What? That's not true! I'm sorry? When did I... No that's not what I meant. Ok I'm sorry. What? No, my patients are not more important than you. Uh huh. Yeah. Hmm. Well I'll try harder from now on. Yeah? Ok. All right. Yes I'll remember: milk and detergent. Ok. I love you too. What? Oh. Buh-bye. Yes I love you too. Ok. Bye then."
You'd be suprised at the things you can do! (Score:2)
You can today!
I tried dunking mine in alcohol and it worked. The phone successfully entered the liquid and there was enough alcohol to completely submerge the phone.
I tried the autoclave too, and that worked too. The phone was placed in the autoclave and the autoclave was turned on then it ran through a full 10 minute sterilization cycle.
No more bacteria on my phone!
Star Trek to the rescue... (Score:2)
Not to worry... (Score:2, Funny)
A new Paper Tiger (Score:5, Insightful)
Want to stop the spread of the pathogens on your cell phone or _______ ? It's easy.
1. Wash your fscking hands before and after you examine any patient.
2. Don't use the device during an examination.
Problem solved.
You don't have to kill the little germies on the phone, just wash them off your hands, for %#^$&! sake.
Re:A new Paper Tiger (Score:2)
Possibly, but what the hell are medical staff doing with cell phones on them in the first place while they're on the job, working with patients? "Hi, sorry, I'm smack in the middle of cracking open someone's ribcage, can I call you back?"
People seem to think they have a god-given right to carry a fucking cell phone with them at work. Everyone in healthcare is always talking about how goddamn busy they are, but they have time to answ
Re:A new Paper Tiger (Score:4, Informative)
There are a lot of different answers to this question because the term "medical staff" covers a lot of different people with different functions.
Surgeons take calls during procedures. They always have, long before there were even cordless phones, much less cell phones. Medical treatment is sometimes dependent upon the rapid dispersal of information and an equally rapid decision being made in response to said information. I've talked to more than a few chest surgeons on the phone while they had their hands in someone else's chest. This was accomplished (aseptically) by speaker phone.
With the advent of cell phones, many health care providers who care for patients dependent upon rapid decision-making carry cell phones with them 24/7/365. This easy access to decision-making resources has saved lives and reduced suffering, but these people represent a tiny, tiny fraction of the health care workers carrying cell phones today.
Having said that, health care workers are people first, and there exists roughly the same proportion of stupid, thoughtless people in the industry as exist in the world at large. So, many health care workers use phones thoughtlessly. Should they stop? Sure.
Wedding rings are virtual cesspools of virulent bacteria, particularly if they are engraved and/or contain a complex setting. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get people to take off their wedding rings while working in ICU's even though we have reams of good, hard science demonstrating that rings are a very efficient way to infect patients with all kinds of deadly bugs? Forget cell phones, it's just another surface, just another pathogen vehicle. It's just a particularly powerful vehicle because people touch it with their hands.
I despise cell phones only slightly more than I despise strollers. They are both a menace to civility in public space. But, there's nothing new here. My point is the cell phone problem discussed in this story, and all other similar hand-contamination vectors (past, present and future) can be stopped dead with 15 seconds of hand-washing. Just using running water , i.e., without soap, is almost as effective. It's not hard, it's just inconvenient.
Mod him up... he's right (Score:3, Informative)
If you wash your hands between patients (and especially before going to see someone who's immune system has taken a hit... chemo, HIV, SCID, etc, etc), you'll cut down dramatically on the spread of disease.
The nosocomial, or hospital-acquired infections are the worst actors... multiply-resistant, and prevelant in the one location where sick and vulnerable people are gathered in one place.
This doesn't leave out healthcare workers. Your own commensal organisms that li
Pay attention, slashdorks, he's right, too. (Score:3, Informative)
Don't even get me started on anti-bacterial soaps.... Not only does their misuse compound the problems we've discussed above, but these soaps only kill off the same flora that our antibiotics (particularly the cheap and safe ones) do, leaving th
Cell Phones in Hospitals? (Score:3, Informative)
Every damn hospital I've ever set foot in outright forbids the use of cell phones on hospital premises. (Use as defined in having it switched on)
Apparently they can lead to nasty interactions with some of the delicate electronics they have running in hospitals and kill patients in the process.
It's the worker's *hands* that are the problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
The real problem...and working in public health I know this hasn't changed even since the advent of germ theory...is just getting the damn workers (I *include* physicians) in hospitals to wash their hands corrrectly before working with a patient. I still see plenty of infectious disease workers more than happy to walk out of a bathroom without washing their hands.
And even if you do, when you touch just about anything (or just wait, as the stuff as you left on your hand grows) you could be putting patients...esp immunosuppresed patients (HIV/chemo/elderly) at great danger.
I always shudder seeing hospital staff walking outside on the streets in their scrubs, shoe covers and hair covers like they are some magical shield that will never pick up pathogens harmful to the patients.
Good!! (Score:5, Funny)
Now, I can kill my enemies with a simple "Here, it's for you..."
In the past, I had to pass them a tin can connected to a string that previously contained bad salmon.
Let's make cellphones out of wood (Score:3, Interesting)
Wooden cellphone skins would make a nice retro-fashion statement. For extended use, the wooden phone skins could be removed and autoclaved.
ICU staff wash hands constantly (Score:2)
The phones, I'm sure aren't the biggest problem. I was surprised I could go in there with my feet and hair uncovered. I'm sure even one "clean" human hair or dandruff (sic) flake has more germs on it than a cell-phone.
autoclave (Score:2, Funny)
I assume this is America we're talking about (Score:2, Insightful)
Not quite the same but.... (Score:2)
telephone sanitizers (Score:2)
though i guess it's better than being eaten by a giant mutant space goat.
(anyway, that's the first thing that came to mind when i read this.)
Cell phones in hospitals? (Score:2)
-- Gun
Make cellphones out of Microban? (Score:2)
Why not just WASH YOUR HANDS (Score:3)
Yeah, then people will forget clean them.
The basic problem is that antibiotics has made us all blase about the dangers of Bacteria. So even basic hygene measures, like washing your hands, are being ignored. Every doctor I've had has washed their hands AFTER examining me. But I remember as a child they also did so BEFORE examining me... not seen them do that for years.
But not to worry, soon our lazy approach to the use of antibiotics will make most bacteria resistant in a decade or two... so we'll soon get the knack again one day.
Sarcasm aside, I'm sure I read something to back this up... 10% of patients in UK hospitals catch somthing whilst in hospital owing to poor hygene (and it can't be mobiles as they've always been banned).
Buckets of water... (Score:3, Funny)
UV irradiation (Score:3, Insightful)
Not sure if it would harm the screen of cellphone (a simple UV protective transparent sticker would help) but all other surfaces would be clensed without problems. No?
Re:UV irradiation (Score:3, Informative)
Unless specifically designed with UV irradiation in mind, the plastic of the phone would probably become brittle.
Also, UV is extremely vulnerable to nook-and-cranny failures. Any part of the phone that is potentially shaded--around buttons, holes in the speaker or microphone grille--can protect bacteria from UV exposure. Actually, just a
No platform is safe... (Score:5, Funny)
Pay phones are worse (Score:3, Interesting)
The fact that we are all running around with our private little phones means that we are exposing ourselves to fewer phone carried bugs than we would get by using a common phone.
I really can't remember the last time I handed my phone to a stranger. In fact, its been several month since anyone other than myself has touched my cell phone.
As for companies that have use a common phone for people on call...they really should just get forwardable 800 number...that way they could swith duties by pointing to different phones...it is much more convenient.
"resistance to almost all available antibiotics" (Score:3, Interesting)
Except, however, the one form of antibiotic that is frowned upon by professionals. Let me introduce you to colloidal silver. [utopiasilver.com] It's a suspension of silver particles in water... and guess what? It has been shown to kill germs including bacteria, viruses, yeast, mold, fungus and parasites, many of which are resistant to antibiotics.
I know many of you are saying "snake oil" right now, but I've used the stuff to cure ear infections, and it works a lot faster and at a much lower price than antibiotics.
You can even make your own. [cassia.org]
Causes other things, too (Score:3, Funny)
Not sure if the cell phone causes its user to become a jackass, or if jackasses use cell phones, but why take the chance unnecessarily?