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Portables Media Music Hardware

Neuros Gets (Beta) Linux Support 178

Posted by timothy from the and-ogg-is-close dept.
Jahf writes "/. reported awhile back that the folks at Digital Innovations (makers of the Neuros portable MP3 player) were teaming up with Xiph.org (makers of the Ogg Vorbis audio format) to release both native Linux support for synchronizing the Neuros and firmware support in the Neuros for Ogg Vorbis files. Today they announced in this forum posting that the native Linux client has reached beta. Nice to see this happen ... I can ditch my last Windows install (well, I'll keep it for a couple of games). It is a command-line utility, no amazing fancy UI, but I'm sure plenty of folks will work to remedy that in some fashion or another and I'm happier with a rock-solid command-line util than a buggy GUI app anyway since I already do all my ripping/encoding/freeDBing/etc from scripts in a shell (so I can just add this as the final step). Next on the list is Ogg Vorbis support ... not done yet but hopefully close. w00t!"
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Neuros Gets (Beta) Linux Support More

Neuros Gets (Beta) Linux Support

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  • Buy One (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Show your support for this and buy a Neuros player.

    • Re:Buy One (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Goldberg's Pants ( 139800 )
      I concur. Linux support would be a big selling point for me, despite the fact I don't use it that much anymore. Mainly I'm concerned with the company supporting something other than Windows. A company that does is worth supporting.

      I just can't believe Slashdot has a story that ends with "w00t!"...
    • Show your support for this and buy a Neuros player.

      The same thing is hapining to the ipod. I will go buy that.
      • No it isn't. Apple is not by any means supporting an independent developer community for the iPod. Quite the opposite, in fact.
    • No. As soon as they actually ship, I'm gonna get a 30 GB iPod. The Neuros is way over sized.

  • I keep hopin (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gyorg_Lavode ( 520114 ) on Sunday May 25, 2003 @02:59AM (#6034197)
    I keep hopin they finally get an ogg vorbis digital music player thats reasonably sized. I don't want one of the big, fancy players; I want a small, pocket sized one that doesn't have the kitchen sink. I want one I can put a 512mb memory stick or compact flash or whatever card in and throw in my pocket while I run, bike, fence, or whatever.

    These players are great. If I wanted a nice big music player I'd chomp down on this fast, but 4.5x2.5x1.5 (not exact) is a bit big to just throw in my pocket considering the size of some of the players out there.

    I'm happy that companies are starting to tune digital music players for the linux crowd and starting to get ogg support on them, but would it kill to have a small, no frills player that can play vorbis files?

    • Re:I keep hopin (Score:3, Interesting)

      by IO ERROR ( 128968 )
      And this is why I still rip to MP3. I'd love to use vorbis more, but until I can walk into Best Buy and buy a Vorbis player, it's just not worth it.


      Now when I DO get a vorbis player, I'm going to have to spend about 300 hours re-ripping my entire collection.

      • Re:I keep hopin (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Sunday May 25, 2003 @06:56AM (#6034505)
        Now when I DO get a vorbis player, I'm going to have to spend about 300 hours re-ripping my entire collection.

        Don't rip to vorbis, rip to FLAC [sourceforge.net] and then never worry about having to re-rip to the format dejure again. Disk is cheap, go lossless for archival purposes and then whenever you need it in a lossy format, just use the FLAC version as your base source and convert on the fly. Makes it easy to support MP3, Vorbis, AAC, AARP, NCAA, etc.
        • My MP3/Ogg collection i getting on for 20GB. Storing all those in FLAC isn't practical, I might as well just grab the CD when I need to convert to another format.
        • That's "du jour", (of the day). And whoah, fanboy. If I was gonna go lossless, I'd go with with a RIFF wav-- those are compatible with every imaginable program.

          • FLAC does matter (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Jucius Maximus ( 229128 ) on Sunday May 25, 2003 @10:09AM (#6034932) Journal
            "And whoah, fanboy. If I was gonna go lossless, I'd go with with a RIFF wav-- those are compatible with every imaginable program."

            Yeah, you say that now. But with FLAC, the files are compressed losslessly, and in my experience, I generally get about a 33% size reduction. And with subtle music with a lot of will placed percussion (e.g. my jazz albums) FLAC does give a noticeable improvement over ogg vorbis encoded at 9.1 quality.

            So assuming you'd get about 74 minutes of audio on the standard CD, you'd get 747 MiB [nist.gov] of wave files per disc.

            Note: CD Audio encoding is different than regular data encoding. You cannot fit 747 MiB [nist.gov] of wave files on a CD-R in a regular file 74 or 80 minute system because of redundant error correction data that does not exist in the CD Audio format.

            So with a 20 GiB [nist.gov] Neuros Audio Player you would be able to fit 27.4 CDs on one player. With FLAC, assuming a 33% file size reduction, you would be able to get 40.9 CDs onto the player.

            Lossless support in the Neuros player IS a big deal because it allows you to put a significantly larger quantity of non-lossy music on it. And furthermore, if you want, you can just convert the FLAC back to RIFF wave format whenever you want because, one again, the conversion is lossless in both directions.

        • Don't rip to vorbis, rip to FLAC [sourceforge.net] and then never worry about having to re-rip to the format dejure again. Disk is cheap, go lossless for archival purposes and then whenever you need it in a lossy format, just use the FLAC version as your base source and convert on the fly. Makes it easy to support MP3, Vorbis, AAC, AARP, NCAA, etc.

          The problem with FLAC is I only get compression to about half the original size. Where am I going to get a 250GB drive for my laptop?

      • 300 hours????

        I've used and enjoyed this utility:
        http://www.hispalinux.es/~data/abcde.php

        -b
        • I use ABCDE as well, with some modifications.

          Some of the great things about that script:

          * I can rip to MP3 and Ogg in 1 invocation ... MP3 for now, Ogg for when Neuros gets support (and for playing from my PC).

          * Batch mode ... rip the entire track to .wavs, eject the CD, then begin processing. That way another CD can be loaded. I routinely (when in rip mode) have 4 or 5 discs going.

          * It will resume from just about any point if interrupted.

          * With a simple wrapper it is easy to make ABCDE auto-invoke (at
    • Personally I could pretty much give a flip less about OGG Vorbis... but I do wonder why manufacturers don't include support for it. It's royalty free... unlike mp3, so why not include support for it? It doesn't cost them anything...

      The only answer I can think of is that the market simply isn't big enough to justify their R&D efforts?
      • There are already commodity DSPs for mp3 decoding. Making an OGG decoder would require either a faster general purpose CPU (more expensive) or an ASIC chip for it (also more expensive), even though it's easy to actually do either case from the R&D standpoint, since the algorithm is well known.

    • What about this one?
      Pontis SP 600 [pontis.de]

    • Re:I keep hopin (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Gerry Gleason ( 609985 )
      Smaller is always nice, but the feature set of this player well justify the size. Besides the OGG format and the Linux support, the built in FM transmitter is very cool. You could just stick this thing in a waist pack and get one of those headphone/radio receivers and your totally wireless. As a biker and non-jogger, this setup is really better anyway, although you still need a way to get to the controls more easily.

      On their forums, the feedback was very strong in support of the OGG format, and probabl

    • Although it's not there yet, Frontier Labs [frontierlabs.com] makes a little player called the Nex IIe that they've pledged will have Ogg Vorbis support in the next firmware upgrade. It's small, cheap, and takes compact flash as it's memory. Also, it works as a general USB storage device, so it works in Linux, without the need for special software. It's not perfect, but I love mine, and I keep checking their site waiting for the Vorbis support.
      • Cooool. I mean, with a 512MB CF card for 90 bucks, and Oggs at q0, that's still 17 hours of music in a tiny, expandable player.

        I just fired off an email to their customer service dept asking about it. I'll post any response I get here.

    • the neuros web site says the 20gb model is 5.3" x 3.1" x 1.3", 9.4 oz... in two of those dimensions it's larger than my CD player. in all three it's larger than an ipod.

      the 128mb model is 4.3" x 2.5" x 1.3", 5.8 oz.. still too big and it only holds 2 hours of ogg+vorbis. I can swap out 128mb worth of smartmedia in my 3-yr old samsung mp3 player... and that's only 2"x2"x0.5".

      I can't afford this, it's too big, but I wish them luck.

  • Neuros Synchronization Manager (Score:4, Informative)

    by RO7777 ( 632720 ) <[raina] [at] [luggnagg.net]> on Sunday May 25, 2003 @03:00AM (#6034201) Journal
    positron [xiph.org]

  • Ogg will have won... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25, 2003 @03:07AM (#6034215)
    when these MP3 players get marketed as "portable Ogg Vorbis players" instead. (Yeah geeks have strange wet dreams I know.)

  • Editors! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Can't the editors at least remove the lame stuff from the submission text?

    Nice to see this happen ... I can ditch my last Windows install.

    Why does this need to be in the submission?

    (well, I'll keep it for a couple of games).

    Ok now I'm confused.

    no amazing fancy UI, but I'm sure plenty of folks will work to remedy that

    Good attitude! :)

    I'm happier with a rock-solid command-line util than a buggy GUI app anyway

    Or not..

    I already do all my ripping/encoding/freeDBing/etc from scripts in a shell
    • Humbug ... I wouldn't have cared if they would have edited it down, I don't expect most submissions to get approved anyway. But honestly, which wasted more of your time, reading my stream of consciousness or complaining about it?

      Besides, so far seeing what gets rejected versus what gets posted, it seems that the more of that junk you include, the more likely it is to get posted. If you submit something that is short and to the point, it gets rejected more often. I knew that and decided to try and swing it
  • no buggy GUI...command line?
    all of the sudden I had this vision:

    #sync --usb --neuros -tgif ~/audio/music/OGG/
    comparing file lists........
    syncing files.........

    error: device block full reload.

    #_

    "What the hell does THAT mean?"

    #man sync

  • Yeah right..... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I can ditch my last Windows install

    I wish I had a dollar every time I heard that on /. And another dollar every time they end up re-installing Windows when it didn't work out as they dreamed.

    • Right, indeed. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Balinares ( 316703 )
      Well, in my experience, it usually goes like this: 1) user installs some Linux distro, 2) user keeps Windows around just in case, 3) user ends up not using Windows anymore at all. Once in a blue moon at -most-.

      That is the scenario I've seen happen most often, anyway.

      In my own case, last time I booted to Windows, a few weeks back, it told me, "We have detected it's now Winter Time, do you want Windows to update your clock accordingly?"
      I hadn't used it for over six months.

      Now of course, I post on /. so I'm

      • Re:Right, indeed. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by NineNine ( 235196 )
        Well, in my experience, it usually goes like this: 1) user installs some Linux distro, 2) user keeps Windows around just in case, 3) user ends up not using Windows anymore at all. Once in a blue moon at -most-.

        In my experience it goes like this: 1) User installs some kind of Linux 2) User spends 15 minutes trying to change the resolution, or get sound working, or something else that should be trivial. 3) Users says "fuck this. I don't have time for this shit. This is unuseable". 4) User wipes Linux and

  • What xiph.org say (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zayin ( 91850 ) on Sunday May 25, 2003 @03:29AM (#6034244)

    Check out what xiph.org have to say [xiph.org] about this:

    Please do not run out and purchase this device immediately, assuming that Vorbis playback will be supported by Neuros. The firmware we write for them (codenamed 'NeuRosetta') will be documented in its creation, and we'll have a site up to document the progress. When that site says it's 'safe' to buy the unit, then it's safe.

    • But you saw the date on this notice, right (January 25th, 2003)? I looks like it's safer today than it was then, but the point is good.
      • Actually, at this very moment, Christopher 'Monty' Montgomery is in Chicago, spending time with the Neuros engineers, working on the NeuRosetta (Vorbis on the Neuros) implementation.

        Well, it's the weekend, but come Tuesday when everyone is back at their desks, this work will continue. :)

        Emmett Plant
        Community Outreach
        NeurosAudio [neurosaudio.com]

        • Emmett, did anyone make any /. story submissions when this product was launched? Given the fact that you are encouraging a developer community to form and that you've been working on Linux sync software, you'd think this would have seen a lot more exposure. I *especially* like the swappable storage sleeve option - more or less unlimited expandability.
          • Neuros has been featured on /. a few times now. Once was specific to the announcement of planned Ogg support through Neurosetta. Heh, I guess there weren't enough duplicate stories to make sure everyone read them (NOW I know why /. does so many dupes :).
          • There's been a few items here and there, but we're still very much in the 'early' phase of 'launching the product.'

            There's a lot of really interesting and cool things coming soon (especially for those hip to Linux and Open Source) in terms of what we're working on. We're absolutely committed to Open Source, and there's going to be a lot of news coming from us soon in this vein.

            It's why I was hired, by the way. :)

            Emmett Plant
            Community Outreach
            Neuros Audio [neurosaudio.com]

    • I would say it is pretty safe, seeing as Emmett Plant, formerly CEO of Xiph.org, has joined the Neuros team.

      Ogg Support is right around the corner.

      - Weirdo513

  • Quality Ogg VS Mp3 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kurt Russell ( 627436 ) on Sunday May 25, 2003 @03:36AM (#6034254)
    License issue aside, which sounds better (VBR)ogg or (VBR)Mp3? I can't tell them apart.
    This [monkeysaudio.com] seems to be all the rage on UseNet.
    That Neuros device looks pretty sweet.
    • I think you just answered your own question. If you can't tell them apart then use which ever is better for you. I have a Creative Nomad IIc so mp3s are better for me but ogg might be better for someone that just listens to the files on their computer

    • Re:Quality Ogg VS Mp3 (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      An mp3 encoded with lame , when invoked with the --r3mix flag, is
      generally considered the absolute best in compressed audio quality.

      • Encoding - Cürrent Best Practice (Score:4, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25, 2003 @06:11AM (#6034443)
        You should not use --r3mix. It is old and deprecated - its removal from LAME has been considered. You should use LAME 3.90.2 with --alt-preset standard (aka "APS", ~ 192kbps VBR) or possibly --alt-preset extreme ("APX", ~ 256kbps VBR) for trickier encodes (classical, jazz, rock, experimental). Those without space concerns still wishing to use mp3 can try --alt-preset insane ("API", 320kbps CBR).

        The --alt-presets are optimisations for quality and have been very thoroughly tested by hydrogenaudio [hydrogenaudio.org]. They represent the current state-of-the-art in mp3 compression.

        For a scale, quality (normally transparent up to lossless) and size (50-80MB up to 300-700MB) go roughly (Qx represents Vorbis 1.0 quality number): APS < Q6 < APX < Q7 < Q8 < API < Q9 < Q10 < FLAC

        A music sharing network for people who care about quality exists. Because the bad guys read /. too, I'll leave it to you to find üs, but the rules are:

        Rip with Exact Audio Copy 0.9b4 (secure mode, accurate stream, NO C2, no normalisation, no read or sync errors, only complete discs with no missing audio tracks, save a log file) and encode to MP3s (LAME 3.90.2 or 3.92), Oggs (Vorbis 1.0) or FLACs. Tag correctly - for mp3 ONLY use id3 v1.1 and id3 v2.3.0 - with year and ideally genre from allmusic [allmusic.com], name scheme "%A - %C\%A - %C - %N - %T" normal, various artists discs - name tracks "Artist / Title" and use name scheme "%C\%C - %N - %A - %T", add " (OST)" to album name for soundtracks. Move log into directory, rename to directory name + .log, add an .md5 md5sum for the log and audio files to complete the rip.
        • It is not generally agreed that LAME APS Ogg Q6. Q6 should in theory be better than APS, but APS is much better tuned at the moment, so the quality is roughly comparable (they fail on different samples, in different ways).
    • It depends.

      Do you want "high quality" or "decent use of space?" Ogg/Vorbis is definitely tuned for low bitrates, assuming you aren't too using too sensitive equipment, it's hard to make this audio format sound bad -- even at 45kbps it's listen-to-able, although it's not archive quality..

      I don't like MP3 much, VBR in itself is a hack, as are a lot of the "standards" that the whole MP3 crowds seem to follow, but all in all, once you get at and above the 160kbps range, it starts sounding decent. At high
      • Gar. I guess that's what I get for trying to make a post while I'm having trouble even focusing my eyes.

        Anyway.. continuation of the third paragraph:

        At high bitrates, Vorbis starts losing its advantage, not because it sounds particularly bad at high bitrates, just that it doesn't really sound any better compared to lower bitrates. MP3 on the other hand, goes from unlisten-to-able at 96kbps and lower (for your average user probably.. 128kbps is BARELY listen-to-able IMO) to sounding fairly good at 160-

  • is there really need for vorbis portable? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 25, 2003 @04:40AM (#6034325)
    you generally use your portable while you travel in bus or go jogging etc.
    the ambient noises disort the sound anyway so you don't have to use full 192Kbps quality for your audio, besides the memory in the devices is limited and still bit expensive to expand.

    how's your headphones? do you really carry around high end half open/closed headphones that cost $1000 when you go jogging?
    no, you use the $10 button headphones that you got cheap from some junk shop --> no need for the extra quality

    Currently you can get portable mp3 player with 128Mb memory for less than $100

    how about getting one of those cheap mass produced mp3 players and whip up script that transcodes the ogg on your hard drive to 64-160kbps mp3 just before transferring it to the player

    you could still enjoy the quality of oggs on your high end speaker system at home since the files are oggs on your hd

    • Or you could use Ogg-Vorbis and be able to have twice as much songs at the same quality on your device.

      • This is only true if you use very low bitrates (i.e. Vorbis 16 kbps *might* be close to MP3 32 kbps). It's certainly not true at most bitrates. Usually a 5-30% gain is more reasonable, decreases as bitrates get higher (since Vorbis is currently really well-tuned only up to 128 kbps or so).
        • The garf-tuned vorbis encoder (somewhere around sjeng.org) picks up where the official encoder leaves off quality wise.
          • I've heard that it's supposed to be better, but I haven't seen any listening tests that show that to any significant extent. IIRC, the latest iteration (gt beta 3) turned out to have some pretty major quality problems with it, and that's unlikely to change in the near future, as garf has discontinued work for the moment.

            In any case, it's not nearly enough tuning to match the tuning done on the LAME mp3 encoder, which is why at high quality levels Ogg remains approximately even with MP3, despite MP3's inhe
        • The ogg-vorbis codec itself is better than the mp3 codec, but what gives the most advantage is not the codec itself, but the fact that ogg-vorbis is variable bitrate by nature and also encourages users to stop thinking in bitrates and start thinking in quality.

          For example 128kbps/mp3 is really good enough for most songs, but there are maybe 10% which are hard to encode - so a lot of people use 160kbps, 192kbps or even 256kbps which is a huge waste for most songs. MP3-VBR exists but is rarely used and is s

          • VBR MP3 not only exists, but is quality (not bitrate) based, and very widely used amongst the sort of people who care about quality (including several major filetrading networks). Tthere is also average-bitrate VBR, but this is not the recommended one: LAME's --alt-preset standard is recommended, and is a quality-based mode. It is generally considered approximately equal quality-wise to Ogg -q6 (and averages around the same bitrates as Ogg -q6 as well).

            So I maintain my point, that Ogg is not superior to M
    • 1) Well, on their site Digital Innovations say they intend to open up the device for the community. This way we should be able to quickly get some good hacks for the player (i'm not expecting D.I. to *support* these hacks), thus enhancing the player for free!
      2) Ogg vorbis support: we're not talking about whether Ogg sounds better on the player. Remember that most people have secondary players for their audio files (like... their PC?) which can take full advantage of the higher quality (?) of the OggV* files
      • What, incidentally, is with naming files with .ogg? That tells you what kind of container it is, but nothing about what's in it. It would make much more sense to use ".oa" (Ogg audio), or ".ov" (Ogg video), or ".oav" (Ogg audio and video), so that you know what sort of output you expect to get out of this file.

    • Actually that makes Vorbis even more suitable for this sort of application than MP3. You can use Bitrate Peeling [slashdot.org] to reduce the quality (and size) of your Vorbis files, allowing you to keep a collection of high-quality Vorbis files on your computer, and transfer lower-quality peeled files to your portable. No need to turn them into MP3s and apply another lossy compression algorithm than what they already took when they were Vorbised. Peeling should be faster than turning the files into waves and then MP3'ing

      • Bitrate peeling is not yet implemented, and will not be for quite some time.*

        * Well, there are experimental implementations, but the quality is generally considered to be unacceptable, so the interfaces are not yet exposed.
    • It's not only for jogging, or on the bus, or between classes for which I'd like a Vorbis player. You are right in that the quality difference between a 128 or 192 mp3 vs vorbis with the headphones I'd wear around campus is negligible.

      However, about 45% of the music on my computer is in vorbis, and it would save me alot of hassle to simple dump them on a player rather than convert or re-rip (especially since for some I can't find the CDs after moving).
    • I want Ogg support because I've already encoded my library in Ogg and I don't want to convert each song to mp3 when I want to jog with it. That's like saying that since tape players are already in most cars, why bother asking for a CD player when you can just rerecord all of your CDs onto tapes? I mean, it's not like going to work that extra bit of audio quality is going to make a difference, right?

  • But... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    But does it support Og.. Oh, never mind.
  • From the Neuros Forum thread pertaining to ogg Vorbis, from the head of the Neuros product development:

    (...)we do wish to open up our system so that third parties can contribute to the product's development amd leverage our own efforts.
    Good! another smart company who wants to help the user community rather that stop them!

    On their site, Digital Innovations say the NeuRosetta (ogg vorbis for neuros) should soon (sometime in June?) be available for the Neuros HD... I was really hyped up by the Neuros 128MB / 20GB Upgrade Bundle (tho does the upgrade bundle include the Neuros 128? If not, the price tag is beyond my limited student resources...) But will NeuRosetta work on other versions of the Neuros than the Neuros HD? Coz an HD mp3 player is maybe a bit big for all my uses...
    • Th package deal includes both the 128mb and 20gb backpacks. They are interchangeable, allowing you to switch out the smaller (in size and space) pack for the larger one. And the Positron (and eventual Neurosetta) should work on all versions of the Neuros. -Weirdo513
      • And to be completely clear:

        1) Both units use the same firmware, the only difference is the amount of built-in flash. The CPU, RAM, etc are the same between the 2 units.

        2) The 128MB or 64MB flash are built into the main unit. If you buy the basic 20GB HD backpack version, you get a main unit with 64MB. If you buy the 128MB version you get a main unit with 128MB and the backpack only contains a battery. If you want the 20GB -and- 128MB options, you have to buy the bundle.
  • As a previous Neuros owner, I'd like to share my experience with you, since I learned about the Neuros at this site.

    As of the last week in May, when I returned my unit, I had owned the Neuros for three months. During that three months, I spent more time attempting to get the software and firmware to work than I did actually listening to the Neuros outside of sitting at my desktop. Though during that time I saw a committed effort to improve the software, firmware and hardware, be warned that the Neuros wa
    • I just got mine a couple of days ago. The MyFi has a range of about 6 feet, which as I understand it is a limit that has more to do with FCC rules than actual hardware. It works just fine in my car, provided I use the power adapter, which I'd do anyway on long trips. On short trips I just toss the unit in the backseat with no troubles. Our car has always had bad reception.

      I have experienced none of the problems you did. The sync manager installed nicely, automatically brought the firmware up to date w
    • sequential-- You obviously had a horrible experience, if you've had it for that long, you must have had practically the first unit we ever made. Nonetheless, while there's no excuse for that, but the firmware and software really has made tremendous strides, and I don't think you'd have any of those problems anymore. I do feel badly about your experience and I would like to make it up to you. If you're interested in trying it again, send me an email and I'll take care of it jborn (at) neurosaudio _com.
  • I am slightly confused why this device just would not support usb-storage. That would sound like the simplest thing to do. No strange programs run, etc.

    Even for those who want syncronization abilities. They can just mount the usb-storage and then rsync the local paths.

    Why the special utility?
    • The Archos [archos.com] Jukebox series devices act as USB Mass Storage devices (my Recorder 20 does USB 2.0; newer devices have snap-on FireWire and USB interfaces, I believe). The Apple iPod, meanwhile, acts as the FireWire equivalent.

      When I bought my Archos, I specifically chose it for this reason. (It would have been more convenient to buy a locally-distributed Creative Nomad Jukebox, but they use a weird proprietary protocol, putting you at the mercy of proprietary Windows software (which possibly does things to y

      • Re:Why not USB-storage? (Score:2, Informative)

        by volsung ( 378 )
        The Neuros actually is a USB Mass Storage device. See my other comment [slashdot.org] for why positron is needed.
      • I chose the Archos over the Nomad for the same reason you did. The Neuros nonwithstanding, the Archos is the best HD based unit out there. (Disclaimer: The iPod may be better. I don't have any personal experience with it.) The Archos has one major thing going for it. Since it's just a USB stroage device you can
        $ mount /mnt/usb
        and then rip directly to it from Grip or whatever your favorite ripping/encoding utility is.

        However, the Archos suffers from some incredibly flaky firmware. I've had all sorts of trou
        • I run Debian 3.0 and I own a FAT32 iPod. I had to get the latest IEEE1394 drivers straight from the site (www.linux1394.org), and patch/compile them into my kernel. The 1394 drivers that came with the 2.4.20 kernel would crash every time I tried to load the ohci1394 module.

          However, now that it is all set up with the newest 1394 modules, it works wonderfully! I load the ieee1394 and ochi1394 modules on startup, and then when ever I want to talk to the ipod, I modprobe sbp2 and mount it just like a drive. On
        • However, the Archos suffers from some incredibly flaky firmware.

          Check out Rockbox [rockbox.haxx.se], The Open Source firmware replacement for the Archos. Far and away superior to the default firmware.
          • You just made me a very, very happy person.
            • Glad to help. I was fortunate enough to have discovered Rockbox before I bought my Archos. If it weren't for Rockbox, the Archos would be OK, but certainly not great (I do like the lack of DRM & ability to use it as a straight hard drive). Rockbox fixes virtually all of the Archos' faults, while keeping all of it's advantages as well. It's still a bit big, but for my purposes (95% in car), that's not a problem.
    • It does. I plugged it in, windows xp found it immediately as a removable drive and I could add and remove files from it as easily as putting them on a floppy. No reboots, no installing software, it just worked.

      Or do you mean that you should be able to just copy music files into a specific location and have it automatically find them? It might be able to do that, I was going to play around with it later.

    • Re:Why not USB-storage? (Score:4, Informative)

      by volsung ( 378 ) <stan@mtrr.org> on Sunday May 25, 2003 @10:23AM (#6034992)
      The README, which you probably didn't see because the submitter didn't include a link to the actual release page [xiph.org], explains this briefly:

      As far as your computer is concerned, a Neuros is just an external USB 1 hard disk, following the USB Mass Storage standard. You can copy any sort of file, music or otherwise, onto the Neuros. However, only files that are listed in a special database stored on the Neuros will be playable. This is where positron is needed. It will both physically copy files and update the Neuros database so those files are playable.

  • I'm interested in this, but after a quick look at bestbuy.com, compusa.com and tigerdirect.com I didn't see them. I see you can order them directly- is that the only way? $400 is a bit much, but I'm willing to compare prices a bit.

    • By the way, if it helps your comparison, I'm willing and able to give discounts on the device to any Linux user that wants one. Just drop me an E-mail to emmett (at) neurosaudio.com, and I'll get you a discount code you can use when purchasing one from the Neuros webstore.

      Cool, eh?

      Emmett Plant
      Community Outreach
      NeurosAudio [neurosaudio.com]

      • I might just take you up on that. :) How much we talkin' here?

        Kudos, btw, on the extremely good customer service regarding the issue of the USB 2.0 upgrade. Very, very classy.
  • A quick look at the Neuros website shows that:

    we are unable to ship to addresses outside of the United States or to addresses containing PO Box or APO/FPO

    Which is a bit annoying :(

    • Agreed, it's a bit of a pain. I have a lot of friends in the UK and in Australia that would like to buy the unit, but we're currently not selling it outside of North America.

      We're working very hard on making the device available for sale worldwide. One of the options (MyFi, the FM broadcast part) means that the Neuros will have to pass through a few regulatory bodies before this can happen. That being said, though, we're hauling ass to make it available anywhere we can.

      More importantly, we're trying to

  • Put me in as one of those who isn't going to run out and buy an ogg player until I can get one that's teeny tiny (ie, smaller than my MiniDisc player) with at least 128MB.

    I'm currently using my Zaurus. Since I can get two hours of oggs at q0 (plenty for work) on half of a 128MB MMC card, I'm not quite ready to run out and buy another device of comparable size just for tunes. If I'm going on vacation, I can get a 512MB CF card for 90 bucks and keep my gadgets down to the Zaurus and an external battery pack.

    • Why on Earth would you use the Sharp ROM?
      • Opera 6. Konq/E is nice and all, but it can't hold a candle to Opera 6.

        Actually, once I get around to ripping it, I'm gonna give OZ a shot. Still, the new Sharp ROM (3.1) is leaps and bounds better than the last one.

  • For anyone with the Jazpiper [jazpiper.com] portable player John johansen (of DeCss fame) has written a driver and a command line utility fot linux called Openjaz [nanocrew.net]

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