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Handhelds Hardware

Review of Sony Clie TG-50 156

Posted by michael from the doubles-as-a-coffee-maker dept.
Anonymous Howard writes "Designtechnica has a review of the Sony Clie TG-50 (pictures of it are on their summary page.) Not only does this PDA look cool, but you can go into your local electronics store and hassle people by turning on and off the home electronics there. My favorite quote from the review: "A visit to a local consumer electronics store that shall remain nameless proved that the Clie TG50 is quite capable of controlling most electronics on the market, with some exceptions. I wandered the store turning devices on and off, frustrating a few customers who were shopping.""
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Review of Sony Clie TG-50 More

Review of Sony Clie TG-50

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  • Clie and Linux (Score:3)

    by chrysalis ( 50680 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:27AM (#6006291) Homepage
    Is there any software to use Clie handhelds with Linux ?

    • It runs palmos. All the linux palm software (ie pilot-xfer) should work, one would assume. Someone tell me if I'm wrong...

    • Re:Clie and Linux (Score:5, Informative)

      by 42forty-two42 ( 532340 ) <bdonlan@g m a i l . c om> on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:35AM (#6006325) Homepage Journal
      Pilot-link [pilot-link.org] works nicely. Note that USB links are a bit tricky - you need to start pilot-xfer shortly after you start the hotsync, but not too long or too short.
      • I've been using pilot-link for a while and not found the timing of the sync to be too troublesome. I usually just click 'sync' on the clie and turn and click the button in jpilot and it works fine.

        This really shouldn't be needed anyway. With a little helper daemon to monitor the state of the USB subsystem, the pilot-link sync could be kicked off automatically. If only I could just jam an extra 5 hours into the week to write this...

    • "Is there any software to use Clie handhelds with Linux ?"

      Yeah, it's called VM-Ware.
  • The Digital Voice Recorder is a very nice feature to have incorporated in this handheld. There have been countless occasions while driving or doing other things, when I was unable to jot a note to myself, or I found myself without paper and pen. Having a recorder at your disposal can be a valuable asset.

    Uh, yeah - so can having a PDA at your disposal...

    (don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one :)

  • Not only does this PDA look cool, but you can go into your local electronics store and hassle people by turning on and off the home electronics there. My favorite quote from the review: "A visit to a local consumer electronics store that shall remain nameless proved that the Clie TG50 is quite capable of controlling most electronics on the market, with some exceptions. I wandered the store turning devices on and off, frustrating a few customers who were shopping."

    great so why do I need another remote???

    • The Remote stuff is more a nice additional feature that the manufacturers get almost for free. IR is a very important feature for transferring data between the PDA and everything else (other PDA's, Desktops, Laptops, and even printers). It just so happens that your TV remote works on the same basic technology, and they where able to add this feature almost for free.

      What's wrong with that?
      • It is nearly free as in cost to manufacture, but it has other drawbacks. The software to handle the IR-remote takes up memory and thier is slightly more battery drain. Of course if you have to handhelds with these IR-remotes, you can IR beam from relatively long distances.

    • great so why do I need another remote???

      It's not just another remote - it's a universal remote. And universal remotes seem to be fairly popular things - it's much easier to have one remote that will control everything, rather than three or four different remotes. For example, if you have your video outputting audio through your amplifier (as I do) you need to use three separate remotes at once to watch TV/videos. Much easier just to use one :)

  • Ohhhh... (Score:4, Funny)

    by dmayle ( 200765 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:30AM (#6006302) Homepage Journal
    Ohhh... so you're the dick who kept me from testing out that home theatre set up...

  • So what (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sc00ter ( 99550 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:30AM (#6006303) Homepage
    "Not only does this PDA look cool, but you can go into your local electronics store and hassle people by turning on and off the home electronics there."

    Can't just about every PDA on the planet do this now? The first Palm devices could do this, so can Newtons if I understand.. Who cares.

    • my HP48gx could do that !
    • Exactly. If this is how he gets his thrills he really needs to stay home more often.
    • Can't just about every PDA on the planet do this now? The first Palm devices could do this, so can Newtons if I understand.. Who cares.

      This model has Sony's 'high powered' ir port. Sure the old ones would work, but you had to be ~4 feet away. What I find more useful than the irda, is the bluetooth radio. With my belkin usb adapter on one of my computers, I can vnc into any of them.
    • The new Clie's are exceptionally good at it as compared to older/other PalmOS devices. But they're still no way near as reliable as normal remote controls. And since we already had watches doing that over 10 years ago, I don't see what this is all about. What the review should have been about is the Sony Clie NX70V or N90 which have a digital video/still camera built in, wifi and bluetooth capability and just overall kick ass.
    • so can Newtons if I understand
      Yep, guilty of switching off all the Sony monitors in a display with my Messagepad 150.

  • Voice recorder, remote control (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Queelix ( 635663 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:31AM (#6006307)
    Why is this guy gushing about a built in voice recorder and IR remote control features like this? Wasn't the IPAQ 39xx series doing this like a year ago?

    Bah!

  • That's a review? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Doktor Memory ( 237313 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:36AM (#6006329) Journal
    While this actually looks like an interesting product, this "review" appears to have been mostly cribbed from Sony's product info pages and press releases, and provides pretty much zero useful information other than the screenshots and the base product specs.

    A few questions, off the top of my head, that I'd love to see answered:
    • What is the effective range of the remote-control functions?
    • How does using the remote control affect the battery life of the unit?
    • Is the remote limited to the control codes bundled by Sony, or can it learn?
    • Presumably there is a PalmOS application being used to manage the remote functions. Is it...any good? Can you program macros? Does it even have a name?
    • How does the battery life, weight and size of this unit compare to PDAs in a similar price range?
    • Can this product use the 256mb memory sticks? (The reviewer even asks this question, but apparently couldn't be bothered to call Sony and ask.
    • Does the foreshortened screen (compared to Sony's other clamshell Clies) make graffiti input difficult?
    ...nevermind that it verges on journalistic fraud to enthuse about how this thing can use 128MB Memory Stick cards without mentioning how insanely far behind CompactFlash and SD in both price and capacity this is.

    This isn't a review, this is a puff piece.

    • This isn't a review, this is a puff piece.


      Theres a convenient "Buy Now!!" affiliate link there too :-)

    • Re:That's a review? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ctar ( 211926 ) <christophertar@gma i l . c om> on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:49AM (#6006407) Homepage
      I've used two different Palm apps to do this on my old Palm IIIe. One was called OmniRemote [pacificneotek.com] and I don't remember the name of the other one...I originally got it at Cnet/Download.com [com.com] but don't see it anymore.

      You could program it just by pointing the original remote at the IR sensor, and pressing 'record' and it would memorize the signal. You could adjust button sizes/placement etc. Very cool. The range was rather limited, but I would guess in the Sony and some later Palms its not as much of an issue.

      • Actually, a lot of PDAs now a days don't have much of a range in their IRDA. I imagine this PDA which is supposed to be a remote has a more decent range. Various companies, at least for WinCE, sell CF cards that provide a new IR port with a much higher range. the IR on PDAs is meant to span 10 feet or so max in most cases, sometimes less. They are thinking of users will be beaming a business card or calendar date rather than using it as a remote control.
      • i also used omniremote on my old palm. the problem with it was that i had to get closer to the television to use it. that meant *gasp* getting up...
    • despite it's sleak design and strong brand name in sony, i'd prefer getting the hp iPAQ Pocket PC h1910, only because it features much more for less (memory, better os, cpu). the ipaq is a seasoned product and has a lot more to offer (accessories, software, etc). the ipaq would have my vote. $400 for the clie? or $300 for the ipaq?
      • Careful son- you're not allowed to actually like PocketPC or Windows CE in this area. If they can't have a decent Linux PDA, most folks on here would rather use a PalmOS PDA that does less than a PocketPC.

        But I agree with you. Especially in terms of OS, PocketPC is pretty powerful. There are lof of useful Unix-ey programs that run on it if you need them. (apache, perl, perl/tk, emacs, vim, gnuplot, etc) I like it a lot more than any desktop windows I've used- more stable, faster, and uses up very little

    • Re:That's a review? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Cpt Kirk ( 579344 )
      From what I remember about remote control using palm devices, I wrote a bit of software which could learn remote codes and its not very difficult to do, although it did involve some processor control instructions, which the palmOS wasnt very happy about you doing (to do with turning on Ir port instead of serial).

      I think that was changed with palmOS 3.5 to allow a function call to open the IR port though.

      As for existing software for doing this stuff... there was a program which used to exist, I'm sure its

    • Re:That's a review? (Score:5, Informative)

      by palmpunk ( 324912 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:09AM (#6006527)
      Well, I've had mine for about a month now. I think I can answer most of these for you.

      -What is the effective range of the remote-control functions?
      Works across my living room. I don't have a large enough space to really test it. I think Sony claims it to work 15-20 feet.

      -How does using the remote control affect the battery life of the unit?
      The only thing that is going to drain your battery more than just having the thing turned on is playing audio and using the bluetooth radio.

      -Is the remote limited to the control codes bundled by Sony, or can it learn?
      It's bundled by sony. So it is not going to work for everything. Doesnt work on my friend's satellite receiver for instance.

      -Presumably there is a PalmOS application being used to manage the remote functions. Is it...any good? Can you program macros? Does it even have a name?
      There are plenty of apps for previous versions of PalmOS, but this beast is running os 5. Couldn't say if a new one was in develepment or not.

      -How does the battery life, weight and size of this unit compare to PDAs in a similar price range?
      I have no idea on this one. The only models I compared were the Sonys. I think for the size/cost this is the one for me :)

      -Can this product use the 256mb memory sticks? (The reviewer even asks this question, but apparently couldn't be bothered to call Sony and ask.
      Yes. About three weeks ago sony released updated drivers which will support up to 1gb memory stick pro. Of course this updated driver does not replace the current one on the device. It takes more ram...

      -Does the foreshortened screen (compared to Sony's other clamshell Clies) make graffiti input difficult?
      Yes, using graffiti is difficult on this device. The keyboard takes a little getting used to. I find entering numbers, especially into splashmoney, is easier with graffiti. Entering more than a word is easier with the keyboard.

      The brushed aluminum case is not as sturdy as I thought it would be. A leather case is a must for this device for when you do drop it. The only other problem I have is the small amount of ram in the device. Sony loads it up with applications. Which I do not use and cannot delete! Also, any upgrades do not update the program in flash, but stay resident in ram.

    • Re:That's a review? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Xenna ( 37238 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:26AM (#6006630)
      OK, I've got one, so I'll try to answer your questions:

      The range of the remote control is about 8 metres I'd say. I don't use it much though.

      I doubt if it affects the battery life doing short bursts of IR, but I haven't tested that.

      The remote does not learn, it only supports 8 manufacturers.

      The App is called Clie RMC, it's OK, but limited. No macro's.

      The TG50 is pretty small and IMO very elegant. I love the mini keyboard. The battery lasts me a few days typically, but if I listen to MP3's a lot or chat with IRC over BT and GPRS it won't last more than a day.

      The TG50 can handle memory stick PRO. There's a 1GB version out, but I have the 512 MB stick. It's required for many applications.

      I hate graffitti, but people who like it generally don't seem to like the TG50.

      Try here for more info:

      http://www.cliesource.com/forums/forumdisplay.ph p? forumid=64

      I agree about the disadvantages of memory sticks, but it's teh only PDA with kbd & Bluetooth that I could find, so...

      X.

    • Re:That's a review? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Propane ( 79480 )
      Is the remote limited to the control codes bundled by Sony, or can it learn?

      There is a Yahoo group that has ways of modifying the built in RMC Application here Link [yahoo.com]
      There are a few learning remote applications that can be found on Palmgear.com

      Omniremote
      NoviiRemote
      SSTVRemote


      Most of these are better than the built in because they are configureable, have macros, and can learn.

    • Re:That's a review? -- I own one (Score:4, Informative)

      by stretch0611 ( 603238 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:28AM (#6006652) Journal
      I just got one early last week because my last Clie just died under an extended warranty.

      I do not use the remote function. I do not have any SONY equiptment for my home entertainment center. It does not come with Zenith TV codes, or Apex DVD codes and I could not get the Sanyo VCR codes to work. (up close) I have not checked to see if I could download other codes.

      The lack of a graffiti area is a pain. Sony obviously expects you to use the keyboard. Unfortunately you can not tap your pen on the keyboard because it will slide off the keys and the keyboard requires the force that can only effectively be applied directly from your fingers. The number keys are a pain because there is not a separate number row and you must hold down 2 keys (Shift + number) to enter in numeric data. There is a button on the top right (which is actually designed to be tapped with the stylus) which will bring up a grafitti area over the screen, (similar to pulling up the keyboard area with a real input area) and it allows you to use grafitti on any input field. However this approach will not let you enter menu shortcuts (like "/F").

      I have a 128MB memory stick so I cannot answer the question about the 256MB.

      So far the battery life seems very good, but My PDA use is probably a little less than average. Also my last clie ended up with a poorly conditioned battery after only 6 months.

      I do not want to sound too negative. I do like it, it has beautiful graphic capabilities, nice sound, and a few nice other features. But, you do not want this Clie if you enter a lot of data into it regularly because of the lack true grafitti. Also the price can't be justified if you are looking for a remote control.

      • --- The number keys are a pain because there is not a separate number row and you must hold down 2 keys (Shift + number) to enter in numeric data.

        Pressing the blue+caps lock keys will lock the numbers on. just figured this one out the other day :)
    • I have a better question: Why is the remote control app suddenly a feature worth mentioning? Sony has been bundling this app with their Palms since at least the 615C release a year and a half ago, probably earlier.
    • The reviewer seems clueless about memory sticks. There are two kinds: MagicGate, and MagicGate Pro.

      MagicGate is limited to 128mb. There are 256mb MagicGate sticks that work by "choosing" which of the 128mb you have access to via a switch.

      MagicGate Pro is limited to 1gb, and is more expensive overall.

      Compatibility between the stick and device would be indicated my the MG logo on the back (like on my NR70V/U). Just don't let some salesdrone at the Sony store talk to you about it. The one I spoke with s
      • Actually there are three kinds of MemoryStick. Regular MemoryStick which are typically purple. Magic Gate MemorySticks which are white and include drm functionality. Magic Gate Pro are white/silver color and come in sizes of 256mb to 1Gb though a theoretical maximum of 4Gb is proposed. Only the very newest devices are compatible with Magic Gate Pro. This also means that only Palm OS5 clies work with the Pro media.

        The memory stick select is new release that was meant to be stop gap measure to increase

  • Uhm (Score:2, Insightful)

    by parkanoid ( 573952 )
    "Not only does this PDA look cool, but you can go into your local electronics store and hassle people by turning on and off the home electronics there." I could do that with my newton.

  • Epedemic! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lexcyber ( 133454 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:38AM (#6006340) Homepage
    Why have lots and lots of PDA:s moved away from the graffit or similar type-in methods and moved onto the keyboard the size of two stamps overlapping?

    I dont want to park the stylus when I want to write something, and then have to pick it out again to access menues or other programs. I want one consistent way of accessing the device. Keyboard for typing alot of things, if I want to type much on this digital device, I will use a laptop. And not this tiny keyboard anyway.

    More inovative graffiti etc. then keyboards on pdas! - Good thing I bought a Tungsten T, it rules. I just hope for the wavelan-sd-card to be good and to come out sooooon! - Sandisk said it would be out this summer for palmOS5 atleast.

    • I was really unhappy about the Handspring Treo forcing me to choose between colour and dedicated grafitti input.

      I chose the colour screen and a keyboard and have never looked back. Onscreen grafitti (provided by Jot) is ideal for short notes (contacts, meetings, etc). The keyboard is ideal for more extended text - memos, e-mail, documents. The keyboard is much faster than graffiti (even for a seasoned user) and I would now be very sad to move to a PDA which didn't have one. (btw, I don't have a laptop -

    • Simple answer (Score:2, Insightful)

      by metamatic ( 202216 )
      Because Xerox won their patent infringement lawsuit against Palm for stealing the idea of Graffiti from Xerox research.

      Next question?

      • Re:Simple answer - not correct (Score:5, Informative)

        by @madeus ( 24818 ) <slashdot_24818@mac.com> on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:44AM (#6006787)
        That's not the correct answer, that's nonsense.

        The current version Graffiti 2 (which uses Jot) does not infringe on any Xerox patents.

        Thumbboards are popular because consumers like them.

        Most people, long term palm owners included, find no difference in speed between a Graffiti system and a thumbboard, the added advantage of a thumbboard being that you don't need to learn how to use it. Plenty of reviews on Palm sites, like PalmInfoCenter, have come to this conclusion.

        I think good hand writing recongnition (as found in on later Newtons) is faster however, but to use it effectively you need a physically larger (Newton-)sized screen, which current PDA's do not have.

        • I definately agree that Newton OS's real HWR is much better when used on a big screen- I used an MP2100 for 4 years as a PDA (schedule and all of my college lecture notes) and portable computer (telnet, irc, web, LaTeX) and then switched to an iPAQ 3150 for the development of Dynapad. On the iPAQ I used CalliGrapher, which is actually shares a common ancestor as the print recognizer in Newton OS. That is, they were both derived from the old CalliGrapher. CalliGrapher is really nice, and available on any W
        • It has yet to be seen whether Jot infringes Xerox's patent, and Palm have yet to ship anything using Jot. It's quite possible that keyboards are a stopgap measure.

          I actually agree that a thumboard is as good as Graffiti. Graffiti sucks, I hate it, the sooner it dies the better. My Newton was more accurate reading my ordinary handwriting.
    • Why have lots and lots of PDA:s moved away from the graffit or similar type-in methods and moved onto the keyboard the size of two stamps overlapping?

      Have a look at the results of Fitaly's Dom Perignon [fitaly.com] contest - the Treo thumbboard was the fastest (84 WPM, with an average of 58 WPM) whereas the fastest Palm Graffiti entry was 38 WPM (with an average of 29 WPM).

      I dont want to park the stylus when I want to write something, and then have to pick it out again to access menues or other programs.

      Actually I f

    • I dont want to park the stylus when I want to write something, and then have to pick it out again to access menues or other programs.

      That's a problem with the Clie/Palm software, not keyboards: the OS and apps just have lousy keyboard support. Get OKEY and you will never have to take out the stylus.

      Why have lots and lots of PDA:s moved away from the graffit or similar type-in methods and moved onto the keyboard the size of two stamps overlapping?

      Because many people don't want to bother learning Graf
    • Why have lots and lots of PDA:s moved away from the graffit or similar type-in methods and moved onto the keyboard the size of two stamps overlapping?

      Because it's faster.

      I have a Sharp Zaurus. I have a choice between:
      • Character recognition
      • Thumbboard
      • Pickboard

      The keyboard, by far, is the fastest way to get data into it. Chacter recognition is just plain inefficient. Besides having to move your stylus backward after you write every single character, it's a lot more prone to mistakes.

      I can see w

  • How about..... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by caffeinex36 ( 608768 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:38AM (#6006342)
    Something that has a feasible battery life, not huge, and has integrated wireless? The Zaurus was almost there...except it lacked just about all three!@!

    Show me a blackberry 957 size device that runs OZ and has wireless and a great batterylife, and im sold.

    Some expansion would be nice too!

    This IR remote crap etc. etc. is garbage. Focus on the REAL problems with PDA's today.

    Rob

    • Something that has a feasible battery life, not huge, and has integrated wireless? The Zaurus was almost there...except it lacked just about all three!@!

      Well, if by 'integrated wireless' you're referring to WiFi, the Palm Tungsten|C fits the bill quite well. You can easily get 8-10 hours of WiFi use on a single charge - days or weeks of use with WiFi turned off.

      If however you were looking for bluetooth, then the TG50 or the Tungsten|T both fit - and with Palm's recent price cut on the T|T it basically bo

  • How much did Slashdot get paid to run this ad ? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BigJim.fr ( 40893 ) <jim@liotier.org> on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:39AM (#6006351) Homepage
    Are the times so hard that the editors need to accept this kind of half digested press release as article ? No content whatsoever in the article. I believe Slashdot should have a 'products annoucements' section so I can filter out this kind of crap. Critical technical reviews are useful, but the laudatory prose of Sony fanboys is more than I can bear.

  • Screen of the TG50 (Score:4, Interesting)

    by justinstreufert ( 459931 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:45AM (#6006383) Homepage
    While otherwise a nice handheld, the #1 reason why I DID NOT buy a Clie TG50 is the screen - it is lit from the bottom by four or five LEDs (or similar) and there is a very noticable fringe of bright spots in this area in sort of a scalloped pattern. Very distracting.

    I have a Palm Tungsten T.. My wife has a CLIE NX60 which does not exhibit this problem. We're both happy.

    Justin

  • Phone vs PDA (Score:3, Informative)

    by dr_doogie01 ( 188072 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:46AM (#6006391)
    Not to be a pedantic bastard, but my phone (Nokia 7650) can do all of those things at a fraction of the cost (£50 ($75) with a GSM network contract).

    ...and it has a camera ...and uses Symbian OS rather than Windows.

    • psst...The CLIEs use Palm OS, not Windows!
    • if you still REALLY believe that your contracted 'phone only cost you £50 perhaps you should see a specialist who can explain to you what the term "subscription" means. A Nokia 7650 currently costs around £315, so guess where the other £265 comes from? What do you pay for your subscription, £15 a month? £180 per year? 2 year contract, is it?

      Did you fail GCSE maths by any chance?
      • It's on a one year contract at £30 a month - all calls and texts are free. Which I think is quite a fair old deal considering the cost of the phone in the shops on it's own at the time was about £500.

        Now who's laughing monkey boy.

        • "Now who's laughing monkey boy"

          Whatever network operator sold you THAT pup, by the sound of things.

          £30 pcm x 12 = £360, and the 'phone cost £50 you say? Sounds like £410 to me and the 'phone costs £317 over at expansys right now SIM free and unlocked.
          • Well at the time (last June) they cost over £500. I needed a phone, couldn't be arsed with pay as you go, so I was a very happy customer.

            £300 for a Sony Clie?? now THAT is expensive (www.expansys.com). The damn thing needs a phone with Bluetooth to connect to the internet when you're on the move - it hasn't even got a wifi card.
          • You were ripped.

            I paid £50 + £12/mo 1 year contract (~3 months to go) - £194... it was a cheaper deal than buying one (never used the SIM since I have a better per-minute deal with my existing provider).

  • Walk the street at night, point it at any visible TV-set and turn the volume to the max. Then watch how they frantically search for the remote and struggle to turn the volume down as fast as they can. Bonus points when they are watching pr0n.

    • Walk the street at night, point it at any visible TV-set and turn the volume to the max.

      Window glass tends to absorb infrared. This won't work from the sidewalk, and might not work if you were pressed up against the window. Maybe in the summer when there are just screens... of course, should you wake up someone's small children, expect vigilante justice. Parents are at their most dangerous when sleep-deprived.

  • I'm Disappointed (Score:4, Informative)

    by Acidic_Diarrhea ( 641390 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:48AM (#6006405) Homepage Journal
    I've been waiting with high anticipation for the TG50. I'm a long time Palm user and looking to replace my aging Palm V. I know that I want a Clie because I've heard and read a lot of good reviews about them.

    When I found out about the TG50, I immediately thought that this would be "THE" Clie for me. The price is right and the spec is pretty impressive... Palm OS 5, 200 Mhz processor, built-in keyboard, and built-in Bluetooth. Bluetooth is significant for me as I already own a Bluetooth phone and I want to do hot-sync to my PC via Bluetooth.

    Last night I had my first opportunity to check out the TG50 at a local store. But in my 30 minutes of playing with it, I found several annoyances with this unit. They really bugged me and they made me change my mind about getting the TG50.

    I'll warn you that my review will be negative because I'm disappointed with this model for the reasons I'll explain below. I'm *not* saying that this model is bad. This is a very capable unit that will make a lot of people happy. Unfortunately those annoyances do really bug me and I won't be happy with it.

    OK, here are some of the annoyances I found:

    I found that the flip cover is a bit hard to open. When the cover is closed, its edges are flush against the unit and there's no easy way to grab it with my fingers. Also because the cover is so thin, my fingers always grab both the unit and the cover at the same time, making it even more difficult to open the cover.

    The TG50 doesn't have a dedicated Graffiti area. Actually this is a feature of Palm OS 5, which supports "virtual" Graffiti pad (the Graffiti pad can be shown on the screen as necessary). The other Clie models that implement this is the NX and NZ models. They have a small "soft" button on the right hand corner of the screen to show/hide the virtual Graffiti pad. I use the term "soft" button for buttons that are shown on the screen itself (as opposed to real "hard" button). On the NX and NZ, you can show/hide the Graffiti pad anytime you like.

    The TG50, on the other hand, has a dedicated hard button to show/hide the virtual Graffiti pad. Immediately I found some quirks with this button.

    1. Apparently Sony implements a rule that "you can show the Graffiti pad ONLY if you're currently in text mode" (i.e. with the cursor blinking). If you're not in text mode, pressing this button will give you an error message! Note that in the NX/NZ, you can display the Graffiti pad at will, regardless of whether you're in text mode or not. This is very annoying IMHO to say the least because now I cannot use Graffiti unless I'm editing text.

    2. When the Graffiti pad appears on the screen, it occupies about the bottom 3/4 of the screen. The upper 1/4 area is used to show what you're editing/typing (fields, row, etc). So if you're editing a long memo for example, you see only 3 or 4 lines at a time.

    3. I found it very clumsy to display/hide the Graffiti using the hard button. You're holding the stylus, then you have to press the button with your finger. Do this several times and you'll see what I mean.

    4. I don't understand why but I get the impression that Sony seems to favor the keyboard than Graffiti. But then the keyboard is also hard to use. The keyboard is cramped and the keys are really close to one another and they don't have good tactile feedback when pressed. I found that the keyboard on the NX/NZ is way better.

    To conclude, those are the flaws I found in my first 30 minute of using the TG50. It's a very nice package with a nice spec, but I can't stand the annoyances so I gave it 2 stars. If you're looking into buying this unit, please try it first and see if you can live with the annoyances I described.

    As for me, I've decided to go with the NX60. The NX60 price has fallen and now it can be had for just a few bucks more than the TG50. I've played with the unit a lot and I haven't found anything I don't like about it.

  • Good Old HP48G can do the same. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    HP's best toy -- HP48G (RPN calculator) has an IR port, and with a help from little SysRPL program (found on www.hpcalc.org), I've taught it to talk to all IR-enabled devices at home, like TVs, VCRs, etc.

  • Remote control is nothing new for Clie (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cutie Pi ( 588366 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @07:58AM (#6006458)
    I've had a Sony Clie PEG-T665 for almost a year now, and it has a program that can turn it into a remote control. I don't know if it can control as many devices as the TG-50, but it has a pretty impressive list of devices. I've never tried it, but I always thought it would be fun to go to sports bar and change the TVs to Lifetime, HSN, etc.
  • also works as a webserver and theyre serving the review from it?

  • In case of slashdotting, an alternate review (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Hands-on Review: Clie TG50
    By: Dan Royea PalmEvolution.com
    April 28, 2003

    Introduction: Sony has given their popular mid-range T-series a complete make-over with a new physical design and an updated feature-set from their high-end NX/NZ line; including a powerful ARM processor running Palm OS5, Bluetooth wireless connectivity, and an integrated mini-keyboard.

    Like Handspring's Treo line and Palm's Tungsten W, the TG50 is the first new Clie to forsake a dedicated Graffiti area for a thumb-board, and many peo

  • I still can't bring myself to buy a PDA. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pecosdave ( 536896 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:05AM (#6006505) Homepage Journal
    I can't see much of a point. Phone number storage? I have that on my mobile phone anyways. Note taking? Pen and paper seem to have better input capabilities and work faster. Calendar? Again, a normal mobile phone seems to foot the bill on alarms anyways. Email, I'm still back to the phone. I suppose a Handspring Treo could make my life easier having more functionality than a normal phone, but I have a tendancy to break things that are on my body, glasses, bones, pagers, lesser phones (I carry a durable one [panasonic.com]) I couldn't imagine trying to keep something as expensive as a PDA with me all the time.

    Does anyone else share this same view. I'll admit that I find the Sharp Zarus somewhat appealing, for one thing it has a mini keyboard, and for another it runs Linux (maybe I would install a palm emulator on it), but I still can't seem to justify that eaither. With notebooks becoming more PDA like, and PDAs becoming more notebook like, they're bound to meet in the middle. I would say something like a mini notebook, like the ones that have the Transmetta processors, or a Treo which would merge a device I already carry anyways are the only way I could justify adding computing power to my normal walk around aresonal. I'll leave PDAs in my mental CEO toys catagory.

    Am I the only one that feels this way?

    • Re:I still can't bring myself to buy a PDA. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Winterblink ( 575267 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:12AM (#6006548) Homepage
      No, you're not.

      I've owned a Palm myself, and beyond simple address book type stuff and some web page reading with AvantGo I found it utterly useless. It almost pains me to say it, but if I were to pay the kind of money PDAs are going for nowadays I'd probably go for an iPaq or similar. At least then I've got a handheld address book type thing that has at least some decent PC-like capabilities. Personally I'm not too picky on what OS it runs as long as it's easy to use and has applications I can work with. For myself, a PocketPC type device is good.

      The reason I ended up dumping a Palm entirely? Simple. It's way more convenient and fast to pick up a pencil and write down an appointment/number in an organizer than to power up a Palm and tap in the info. But that's just me. :)

      • It's way more convenient and fast to pick up a pencil and write down an appointment/number in an organizer than to power up a Palm and tap in the info.

        Completely agree. I tried using my Clie as a notetaking device and it failed miserably. Now I end up taking notes on a post it, transferring it to my Clie when I'm done.

        What I do find the Clie useful for:

        • Appointments. I have a terrible memory sometimes and I always forgot when I had a meeting to go to. Now I just enter it into my Clie and check the Clie eve
      • The reason I ended up dumping a Palm entirely? Simple. It's way more convenient and fast to pick up a pencil and write down an appointment/number in an organizer than to power up a Palm and tap in the info. But that's just me. :)

        Not just you, either... you nailed it. Palm's big advantage is that its much smaller than a regular DayRunner (or whatever), you can back up the info in case you lose it, and it's fast to whip out and jot something down.

        Having said that, my T68i w/bluetooth happily supplanted

        • "(Speaking of which, have you guys noticed a lot more women with Palms these days? I think the geek set is slowly 'handing them down' as they upgrade... women are a lot less picky. :)"

          One of the things I've noticed here in New York City is that the new Palms (especially the new Clie's, for some reason) are a hot fashion item among young people, both men and women. I can't tell you how many groups of high school girls I've seen sitting around playing games on their fancy pants color screen PDA's. Necessar
    • I think it depends on the person and your needs. For example, I travel a lot. So my Palm is always loaded with books and things to keep me occupied on planes. Its a lot lighter than carrying books and magazines. My wife has a Palm and detachable keyboard. She uses it to take notes at meetings, its smaller than a notebook computer, it fits in her purse, and she never has to look for a plug-in.

      OTOH, If all I needed was a place to keep phone numbers and a few appointments, I probably wouldn't use it. I


    • You can password the password directory on your palm (I use a clie) and it is excellent password storage for all of your servers, bank accounts, etc. All in one place, no need constantly take a piece of paper in and out of a safe.
    • > Phone number storage? I have that on my mobile phone anyways.

      Imho, it's a bit more convenient when you can link phone numbers not just with names but with other pertinent details of the person. And it's nice to be able to give one person multiple phone numbers without having to input the person multiple times, though maybe the regular phones of today do that.

      > Note taking? Pen and paper seem to have better input capabilities and work faster.

      Hah! I'm tons faster on my pdas with note taking than
    • While I could tout a lot of reasons why I like using my PDA (and many reasons I find it annoying), one feature above all makes it useful to me:

      The ability to search all of the data.

      Yeah, a lot of the grunt work that PDAs do could be replicated by pen and paper: writing down when your meetings are, keeping track of phone numbers and addresses, taking notes about stuff. But pen and paper can't easily answer things like "Tell me what project it was that had that cool umpitty-ump technology". As long as I e
  • The site is already /.ed but this is a link to the photo of the Cile [pdashop.nl]
  • Does it run Linux?
  • "I wandered the store turning devices on and off, frustrating a few customers who were shopping."

    Dear Lord, this is how a person gets their kicks these days? All I can picture with that scene is some pimply faced dork standing by the home theatre section of the store, turning all the TV sets to Screen Savers as they giggle and snort in delight. Personally I hope he was just kidding about doing that, for his sake and the sake of the customers.

  • I remember 8 years ago, playing with a friends wrist watch that included a IR remote controler... We liked to turn the volume of TVs in the store to the max, and watch the sellsman jump to unplug the device...

  • No Filesystem Abstraction (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fuzzybunny ( 112938 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @08:58AM (#6006899) Homepage Journal


    I really like PalmOS and its derivatives--I've looked at Zaurus, WindowsCEPocketPCTinyHPCompaqGizmo or whatever it's called, Psion, and a number of others. I bought a Clie 760, because I love the screen quality and the case worksmanship. However, I have three major gripes with Clies.


    First, Sony's support is utterly abysmal. I mean it is worse than worst. A friend, who is one of their European product managers, was not surprised when I tried to tell him my tale of woe, trying to get them to replace the screen on my Clie (which I purchased in the US.) The screen scratches easily, which is mainly my fault for not putting a cover on it. Would they replace it (even if I paid for it) in Europe? Fat chance. Talk about helpdesk hell.


    PalmOS doesn't, to my knowledge, have an IP stack. I would have thought that, by now, someone would come up with at least a rudimentary way to access network resources. Not too tragic.


    The last, worst thing, is that the Clie does not have any concept of a 'filesystem' as I understand it. I can insert a 128MB memory stick, but I cannot run applications from it. I can move files used by applications to that memory stick, but unless they're memory stick-aware Sony Clie apps, they will not find the files.


    And, my perennial gripe with the Clie, it's got this cool memory stick import tool, where I can use it as a storage device on a Windows PC (gave up trying to get it all working nicely on my FreeBSD boxes). I can copy files back and forth when the Clie is in its cradle, but I cannot then access those files with my generic applications. Lame.


    I would be more than grateful if anyone can suggest a way around this. I know asking for a palmtop

    • Actually, PalmOS does have a filesystem for removable memory, called VFS. It only abstracts the hardware, so the same API works with MS on Sonys and SD on Palms. Unfortunately, there's no common apps or UI panels for opening, saving, or managing files. Hence, crap like MS Gate, which is only good for Engrish messages like "Current folder is access inhibit."

      That also means that, to keep their apps small, most developers use hardwired paths for VFS. Notice that Sony's audio player will only play MP3s if the

  • article is ./ed - mirror from sony (Score:4, Funny)

    by Karma Star ( 549944 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @09:04AM (#6006943) Journal
    here [sonystyle.com]
  • for those jonsin' to read a review that isn't slashdotted (yet), brighthand [brighthand.com] has one.

    gotta admit that the backlit keyboard is sweet- something i've not seen on any Psion, Linux or WinCE keyboarded PDA.

    now for the question:

    Does this model have Graffiti 2, or is that only in the brand-new PalmOS 5.2.1? Graf 2 can be used without a stinkin graffiti area, which would be much better for something like this, considering its screen size.
  • I used Handspring Treo and player with Thungsten phone, and from these 3 Cliet have worst keyboard I've see.

    Besides 4 shits states (shift, control, blue, red) main problem that they are non-sticky. On Treo you press CTRL and then some key. On Clie you need to press them simultaneously. With my big fingers, typing phone number while keeping BLUE shift key is very difficult. Also it makes it impossible to type with one hand.

    Also, keys does not have enough play and you do not feel key press.

    Besides keyboard

  • Bought one first day available (Score:4, Informative)

    by invisik ( 227250 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2003 @10:49AM (#6007719)
    Hey all,

    I had been watching the market for a few months when I decided to buy the TG-50. I had a Handspring Prism previously (Palm VII, Palm IIIe, original Palm Pilot previous to all that) and it was serving me well except for the weight and size. The price point is good for the features on the TG-50--Palm OS 5, 200MHz processor, memory stick reader, 320x320 screen, etc.

    Things I found out I liked about the unit that aren't obvious in your typical visit to the store:

    The screen--very readable in bright sunlight!!! I didn't even bother taking my Prism out when outdoors. 320x320 is very sharp even on the calendar/address book type screens.

    The keyboard--I'm pretty into Grafitti, and didn't think the keyboard was easy to use. After taking countless notes and appointments, it's great and much faster then getting into writing mode with the hard button. Give it a chance. Tactile feedback of the keys means nothing--if you know where the QWERTY keys are, you can just fly along with the thing. Don't look at your fingers, look at the sreen!!! Arrow keys rock!

    Bluetooth--I have a Bluetooth phone (Ericsson R520m). I just enter my contacts full information in the TG-50 and you can dial your phone with it. Single address book. Connected it to my friends Powerbook, worked well. Easy to link devices together over bluetooth. Don't have a bluetooth adapter on my PC yet. Can only be more BT devices coming out.

    Real alert sounds and speaker--not just a beep when your appt is up, and no more asking "Was that you or me beeping?" in a room of people. Can record your own sounds with the voice recorder and then convert it to a "system sound" and use it as an alert. Can play some sort of MIDI file too.

    Note field length--has been increased greatly! Not sure if that's a Sony thing or an OS 5 thing, but it's wonderful. I take tons of notes and documentation on my handheld--I try hard to run paperless and it's working pretty well.

    And some things I didn't like after a while....

    Flip case--stated before here, very difficult to open. Needs some kind of edge to grab it. I find it opens best from the bottom edge--just slide your thumb up the bottom face and the lid usually comes with it. Or middle finger on the top of the unit, thumb on the edge of the lid works well too. One positive about it, having a hard cover over the screen is much more protective then the leather cover I had over my Prism. You also don't press the screen or buttons by accident when the unit is in your pocket. That happened all the time with my Prism.

    Power button--it's a sliding button on the left side of the unit. Has a hold function as well so you don't turn it on by accident. Coming from the Prism with the front-mounted button, this totally blows. A sliding button???!? I often feel obligated to use the hold position when puttin the unit in my pocket, but when you go to turn it on by pressing one of the 4 hot keys the power LED just flashes at you, then you remember it's on hold and slide the power switch to ON, then press your hot key again. Takes getting used to, but it's annoying.

    Keyboard vs Stylus--when you're entering something, say, in the address book with the keyboard, there is no way to get to the next field that I have found. You have to tap the next field with the stylus/finger and then start typing again. No TAB or ENTER or down arrow. MAJOR flaw there. If you use just the stylus in writing mode, you can't see enough of the screen to really enter things or scroll through or go fast enough to make it worth while as compared to the keys.

    Keyboard shortcuts--Not sure if this is a Sony thing or what but I used to be able to do a Cut and Paste via Grafitti on my Prism with slash C and slash P. This unit does not have that feature. It does have CTRL-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V for copy, cut and paste on the keyboard.

    Speed--yes, too much speed can be a bad thing. Either Sony or Palm needs to build in compensation for processor speed when it co
    • I'm not sure how you did it, but ./ pulls up a nice cut/copy/paste menu (as well as allowing me to use x/v/p) on any PalmOS 4 and greater model. Earlier models don't show the menu, but still respond to the shortcut.

      As for enter/tab, enter is a stroke starting from the top-right to down left ala /` (not the bottom left to up-right ./); tab is tap, up, right like a little arrow. I've never had problems with these grafiti shortcuts on any of my 3 Palm units or the many units my friends have.
  • The keyboard support in PalmOS applications is awful. For example, you can't easily do the simplest thing you might want to do: navigate to the 3pm slot in the day view and enter an appointment, you have to take out the pen and tap, then use they keyboard to enter the data. This is a problem both with the T|C and the TG-50. Palm and Sony seem to have slapped on the keyboards as an afterthought.

    The solution? Get OKEY [216.239.37.100]. It lets you navigate the fields on a form by using the rocker/navigation wheel.

    Also,
  • And having a banner ad for the Ipaq urgently flashing at the top of the screen.

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