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Wireless (Apple) Businesses Apple Hardware

Taking Apart An Airport Extreme Base Station 188

Posted by CmdrTaco from the gettin-all-up-and-inside-that dept.
Farley Mullet writes "As seen on MacSlash, here is a link to page documenting one man's dissection of an Airport Extreme Base Station. It's pretty neat to see what Apple crammed in there, including (gasp!) a chip from AMD!"
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Taking Apart An Airport Extreme Base Station More

Taking Apart An Airport Extreme Base Station

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  • Airport - Laptop (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Richardsonke1 ( 612224 ) * on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:05PM (#5907846)
    It says that the main processor is a mini-PCI card. Does that mean that it could resonably be put in a computer without the base station? My Dell Inspirion 8200 uses a mini-PCI card for wireless, and if I could possibly find drivers for it, i.e. for use in linux, that would be so cool. Imagine upgrading your laptop to 54 Mbps yourself (with no PCI card sticking out the side).

    • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:5, Funny)

      by schappim ( 656944 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:08PM (#5907858)
      I give it a week till there is linux on it... (it's already on the graphite version)

      • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:3, Interesting)

        by schappim ( 656944 )
        It's also quite interesting to note, that whilst Apple is courting Intel (CEO special guest @ Keynote), Apple is still using AMD in their base station!

      • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:5, Interesting)

        by GreatOgre ( 75402 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:33PM (#5907977)
        If you follow the article's link to AMD's website [amd.com] from the article, you see that the CPU supports Linux; so it shouldn't take long.

        Questions that I have. On AMD's page, they say that power usage is given in mW for the chip at 333, 400, and 500 MHz are 400, 700, and 1.2. Do they mean 1.2 watts (and hence 1200 mW) or does it actually use 1.2 mW? (I know that it's 1.2 W, but I wish it was 1.2 mW!) More seriously though, why aren't we seeing these chips in more things, like say mini-ITX boards? Of course, I'm not a chip and board designer; so this could be senseless dribble.

        • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:5, Informative)

          by baitisj2 ( 671789 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @12:58AM (#5908240)
          Yes, they mean 1.2 watts.

          I actually am working on an embedded project that uses the Alchemy AU1500 chip, as used in the AirPort. I can tell you that getting Linux running on this AirPort would be trivial. All you need to do is break out the EJTAG pins on the AU1500, and connect it to a Raven EJTAG adapter (works under Linux + GDB).

          The next thing you'd need to figure out are the SDRAM and flash timings.

          What I would really like to see: someone should get Linux running out of the connected RAM, and then extract the contents of the Flash chip. I'm really curious what OS the AirPort uses. If it's something we're familiar with, then it might be easy to reverse engineer the driver for the BroadCom peripheral. I would *LOVE* to see drivers for these BroadCom devices.

          The AU1500 has excellent support and is a superb microcontroller; take at www.linux-mips.org . Integrated USB, Ethernet, serial, very fun! If someone wants to send me an AirPort, I'll put Linux on it ! :)

          • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:3, Interesting)

            by Lennie ( 16154 )
            Supposedly it runs vxWorks (I got a link to this site, in the same discussion: http://www-hft.ee.tu-berlin.de/~strauman/airport/a irport.html [tu-berlin.de]):

            Important Note About the New Airport Base Station (AKA "Snow")

            The new model of the Airport Base Station which features two Ethernet ports is a completely different device. Don't even dream about using etherboot and the linux port discussed here on that one.

            * The old "graphite" station is an embedded i486-PC running an embedded BIOS and the KarlBridge softwa
    • Interesting point however I would bet Apple uses a proprietary implementation to prevent such possibilities.

    • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The form factor is different (notch in a different position) so it would be impossible. I did put a miniPCI Wireless-G card in my laptop, however.

      http://www.amphiskios.net/wiki/index.php?Interna lW irelessProject

      Check it out, it's pretty easy. If you disassemble the router instead of the PCI card you don't have to solder an antenna connector.

      ----------------
      http://www.amphiskios.net

    • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:4, Informative)

      by da_anarchist ( 548175 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:21PM (#5907922)
      You wouldn't have to buy the entire Airport base station. Apple sells Mini-PCI Airport Extreme cards seperately for 99$ at the Apple store here [apple.com]. However, it is questionable whether there are any drivers for non-Mac systems.

    • Re:Airport - Laptop (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Doesn't it stick out the side because the card has the antenna attached to it? Macs don't have things sticking out because the antenna is built into the screen.
    • If you want to know about MiniPCI wireless options for your Inspiron, go to http://forums.us.dell.com and take a look around there.

      Based on the information I found there, yesterday I ordered a MiniPCI Truemobile 1300 802.11b/g card for my Inspiron 8200 from Dell Spare Parts. It was only $44.95 + shipping ($8 for 3-5 day).
    • The Mini-PCI card is based on a Broadcom 11g chipset. Broadcom already has Linux drivers for this chip, but they aren't open source. They are licensed to embedded designers for binary distribution and they aren't available to the general public. This is the same chipset that the Linksys WMP54g pci card uses.

  • Here they go again (Score:5, Funny)

    by Black Copter Control ( 464012 ) <samuel-local&bcgreen,com> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:07PM (#5907853) Homepage Journal
    Slicing up an Apple just see what's inside.
    Kinda seedy, if you ask me....

  • why "gasp"? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Drakon ( 414580 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:08PM (#5907857) Journal
    I thought it was common knowledge that AMD is in bed with apple...
    the dogs fight together against the wolf (intel)

    AFAIK there was a AMD embedded 486 in the original AirPort, and Apple is working with AMD on HyperX pci or some such, and so on and so forth

    • Re:why "gasp"? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by pajamacore ( 613970 )
      Apple is working with AMD on HyperX pci or some such

      You're thinking of the HyperTransport Technology Consortium. AMD, API NetWorks, Apple, Cisco, NVIDIA, PMC-Sierra, Sun, and Transmeta formed it in 2001 I believe to further the development and adoption of the HyperTransport I/O Link specification.
    • I remember seeing AMD processors listed as being inside Apple laser printers a while back too.
    • They have worked together in the past, latest thing I heard is that they are both part of the HyperTransport Consortium along with Sun, NEC, Cisco, HP, NVIDIA, Transmeta etc...

      Given the benchmarks we have seen with Sledgehammer (I still think they should have stuck with that name instead of "Opteron"... sounds like the damn thing is going to transform) using a HyperTransport, sure would be sweet to see it coupled with a pair of PPC 970's *drool*
    • Its called "Hyper Transport", and its AMD's technology that they are *giving* to Apple. It could be just that AMD is getting the AirPort business in exchange. Who knows. (AMD has been giving this technology to *many* companies, not the least of which is nVidia.)

      This is probably where the "Apple is going to use x86 CPUs in their PCs" rumours start from.
      • "This is probably where the "Apple is going to use x86 CPUs in their PCs" rumours start from."
        Probably, although people who know AMD will know that they're completely OK with companies making non-x86 CPUs that use their bus technology.

        Or more appropriately - The original Athlon bus was HEAVILY based on the bus used by the Alpha processor that was released around the same time. AMD and DEC (this was before the Compaq/Intel mess) cooperated heavily on bus technology.

        So I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD bu

  • Two things (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nilepoc ( 7329 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:09PM (#5907861) Homepage Journal
    That huge heat sink leads me to a good idea of why the 12" pBook is so hot.

    And the AMD chips have been in the previous base stations as well. (or so I was told, when I posted this comment on macslash) But it does kind of clear up a great deal of speculation on what Apple and AMD were up to.

    I posted this comment on macslash as an AC
    • There are AMD chips in things from Apple dating back to at least 1994.. I have a Laserwriter 16/600 with an AMD CPU in it.. I also have a 1994 BusLogic PCI SCSI card with an AMB brand 80186 on it :)

  • Gasp! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cscx ( 541332 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:16PM (#5907895) Homepage
    AMD makes microcontrollers and all SORTS of different ICs. Gasp!

    Also Texas Instruments doesn't just make calculators, either...

    • Re:Gasp! (Score:2, Funny)

      by benna ( 614220 ) *
      TI has been making other prodects? I feel so cheated on... /me slaps TI

    • Re:Gasp! (Score:5, Funny)

      by jdreed1024 ( 443938 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:26PM (#5907944)
      Also Texas Instruments doesn't just make calculators, either..

      Sure. They also make the Speak N Spell, which, when combined with an umbrella, a circular saw blade, and a phonograph, allow you to send exta-terrestrial messages. Yeesh. Didn't anyone see E.T.? :-)

      • Re:Gasp! (Score:5, Funny)

        by cscx ( 541332 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:33PM (#5907980) Homepage
        Also, when combined with a Slinky and a box of Grape Nuts [homestarrunner.com] can make a StrongBad Robot.
        • Also, when combined with a Slinky and a box of Grape Nuts [homestarrunner.com] can make a StrongBad Robot.

          As soon as I saw a mention of speak & spell, I knew i had to post that link, but, alas...You beat me to it!!!!!!! Argh!!! Oh, woe is me!!
      • I think I'm hyperventilating

      • Re:Gasp! (Score:3, Funny)

        by cjsnell ( 5825 )

        My little sister sure was pissed when I dismantled her Speak-N-Spell back in 83 and tried to hook it up to our parent's hi-fi. This was my second unsuccessful experiment. Previously, I tried to construct a guitar and amplifier out of a wooden box with a hole in the side, some string, some 22-guage wire, and some empty cans of Tab (remember that nasty stuff?).

    • Yep (Score:2)

      by Faust7 ( 314817 )
      Also Texas Instruments doesn't just make calculators, either...

      Right! They make note-storers, homework-doers, and test-cheating devices.

  • The most important question... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MavEtJu ( 241979 ) <slashdot.mavetju@org> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:19PM (#5907911) Homepage
    That's all folks! Despite the tinkering, the ABS still functions normally.

    How many screws did you have left over at the end?

  • Ster number one in voiding warranties (Score:5, Funny)

    by sandbagger ( 654585 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:19PM (#5907912)
    Publish on a web site that you are voiding their warranty by cracking their product open.

    Thanks, though.

  • New Airport Base Station Icon (Score:5, Funny)

    by TPIRman ( 142895 ) * on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:22PM (#5907924)
    Does Airport really merit its own icon? I fear that we may be DILUTING the value of Slashdot subject icons! SLASHDOT EDITORS, REPENT!

    Oh wait, who cares? Looks pretty nifty.
    • Well, it's photogenic if nothing else. Soon as PC makers start putting out devices and computers that look like UFOs, giant gumdrops, table lamps, and various kitchen appliances, we'll doubtless see icons for those too. :)
    • Actually you raise a very interesting point.

      There are too many little and useless apple icons. Either the slashdot guys like apple too much, or are (failing) to attract advertising dollars.

      More interestingly, other subjects that Slashdot fans would care more about do not have their own topics. Examples are: google, and over-clocking/cooling.

      As time goes on, I believe that there needs to be a more democratic way of dealing with topics. Maybe something subscribed members might be able to take part i

  • WiFi & AMD (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LamerX ( 164968 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:25PM (#5907936) Journal

    I just took apart my Mac LC & LCII. The both had AMD chips in them, not the processor, but some other chip was labeled with an AMD logo on it.

    Also, for more WiFi info, these are some good links...

    http://melbourne.wireless.org.au/wiki/?Apple [wireless.org.au]

    http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/WirelessLin ks [personaltelco.net]

    http://www.gulker.com/2002/10/10.html [gulker.com]

    I believe that most wireless access points are just PCMCIA wireless cards with some extra software and hardware controlling it, that's why prices of these are coming down so much.

  • Lied to (Score:5, Funny)

    by iamatlas ( 597477 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:43PM (#5908023) Homepage
    We've all been lied to. All these years apple has been telling us their products "just work" and here we find actual components- complicated components!- and in a simple device!

    I don't know what's physically inside their full computer systems, but now for me they are filled only with lies.
    • We all know it's truly the Gremlins running on the Gremlin wheels that make apple products go (or sprites if u have the sprite model)
      This article is a falsification designed to bring about doubt among the ranks of the faithful! Do not stumble down the path of blasphemy!

  • Nice dissection there (Score:4, Insightful)

    by General Sherman ( 614373 ) on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:48PM (#5908044) Journal
    Nice to see what's inside those. I was kind of expecting to see just a standard WiFi card in there, in the original base station, exactly like the one he had pictured for comparison, it was actually just a Lucent PCMCIA card. Apple likes to use the least weird parts, a nice break from the proprieatary RAM that they used to use. Maybe this explains what those talks with AMD were as well, just discussing AE design? Most likely. Maybe some HyperTransport in there, but definitely nothing about x86. I hope this little science experiment showed that to you crazies.

  • AMD Chip != i86 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nova Express ( 100383 ) <lawrenceperson@g ... com minus author> on Wednesday May 07, 2003 @11:50PM (#5908051) Homepage Journal
    There's nothing particularly interesting or shocking about having an AMD chip in the Airport. Also, it's not any kind of i86 chip at all: "The CPU is a AMD Au1500 series RISC-based processor. It is based on the MIPS architecture." Moreover, it has a date of 2000 and "Made in Taiwan" on the chip itself, so what we have here is fairly old technology cranked out by a Taiwanese fab (UMC would be my guess). And absolutely no proof for the "Apple is moving to AMD" rumor. Nothing to see here, folks, move along, move along...

    • Re:AMD Chip != i86 (Score:3, Informative)

      by imnoteddy ( 568836 )
      it has a date of 2000

      The copyright is 2000. The 0252 suggests that the chip was made late in 2002 and the 0309 may mean it was packaged this year.

      "Made in Taiwan"

      It actually says "Assembled in Taiwan", so the chip itself was likely fabbed elsewhere.

    • On top of which, I have to wonder how much of the AirPort is developed in-house at Apple. Isn't the AirPort based on technology licensed from Cisco?
  • A cool article that was not tubed! Seriously awesome article, I love things like that, you may not know exactly what you are looking at, but it still looks cool. It is not really surprising to see an AMD chip, I thought they were partners with their flash memory anyway? I do not think apple makes MIPS chips either. Great article.
  • It is just very weird that the apple articles used to display the AMD logo. Does the AMD chip mutate into Apple too?

  • AMD and apple as a point of interest (Score:5, Informative)

    by questamor ( 653018 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @01:12AM (#5908296)
    FWIW, Apple have been using AMD chips through their machines for quite a while. I have dozens of older macs, from early powermacs back through quadras and mac II machines, and there are several AMD chips on some of those boards. They're not doing anything but auxiliary functions such as serial port controllers and the like, but they're there all the same
    • There are also Intel chips in the Newtons. I've taken my brother's eMate apart to fix the screen cable problem and the memory chips had a big Intel logo on them.
      • That's not too surprising. Intel has been making memory chips longer than microprocessors. It's still a significant business for them. Can expect to find Intel memory in lots of places.

        (IIRC, the Intel 4004 team sold the microprocessor concept to the Board by pointing out that manufacturing and selling CPU chips will increase the sales of their memory chips, Intel's then breadwinner.)

        If your point was "AMD chips in there -- so what?", I agree :-) (As it hardly indicates anything else, especially abo
        • That is exactly my point. Apple has outsourced all of their parts needs for years. In fact, they even get other people to manufacture their stuff now. Elitegroup is one of the largest contractors for PowerBook assembly.

          Apple has becomre more of a software company with a massive R&D department that also does hardware than a hardware company.

  • Ridiculous UK power plugs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by davesag ( 140186 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @01:26AM (#5908342) Homepage
    from the article The cabling in Britain includes the typical ridiculous power plug combined with a standard RJ-11 telephone cable + adapter.

    I don't know about you but those plugs never fall out of a wall socket. compare and contrast to the pissy little european two pin plugs, or even worse those very flimsy US two pin (easy-bend) plugs. The only thing that rivals it is the australian 3 pin power plugs but even they are prone to falling out from time to time. no for me the UK monster 3 pin plug is a great thing.

    • Flimsy? I bet you've never tried connecting a grounded plastic monster on an appropriate socket.

      That's the great thing about the European ones, you get them in sizes from the small, compact, easy to pull out one to huge power adapters that need a good yanking to pull loose.
      • okay granted but in general the UK plugs are solid as a rock. also I have many euro plugs that are slightly different widths, some almost 1mm thicker than others. this matches the points in my current house well, as many of the sockets seem to have been installed in the dark ages and they too vary slightly in width. making some plugs so flimsy they just fall out of their own accord, and some so tight you can not get the plug in there without a hammer. i am yet to have a UK plug fall out, or be impossibl

    • Re:Ridiculous UK power plugs (Score:5, Interesting)

      by WasterDave ( 20047 ) <davep@zedke[ ]om ['p.c' in gap]> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @02:44AM (#5908548)
      Australian ones (actually New Zealand in my case, but we use the same plugs) are overpoweringly stupid. Not as bad as the US ones, but stupid all the same.

      The two live pins are at the top of the socket. This means that when a toddler stands on the cable, as she tends to extremely often, the two live pins are exposed with a gap just the right size for an inquisitive toddler finger. Stupid fuckers, having me running round duct taping all the power plugs to the wall.

      The UK sockets are the tits. Best designed in the world. For a start the "garage doors" onto the live pins don't even open until the earth pin is in. Then by the time the live pins are touching inside the socket, the only exposed bits are plastic. Totally toddler proof AND they don't fall out.

      Dave
      • But one advantage about the american standard for power plugs. We're not afraid to install outlets and use hair dryers in the bathroom. Many a time a shocked human's arm leaped with just enough force to yank the power connector from the wall.

        • Re:Ridiculous UK power plugs (Score:5, Informative)

          by h4mmer5tein ( 589994 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:09AM (#5908714)
          We're not afraid to do that either, but the outlets have to be of a specific type, isolated with internal transformers to step down the voltage, and mounted in a certain way, up high, away from any water. Added to this is the fact that all UK appliances are fused and virtually all are grounded. The large 3rd pin on uk mains plugs is the earth and all uk plugs have an internal fuse rated to match the appliance ( untill the owner changes it for the wrong rating, but there only so much you can do ).

          So in the case of your hair dryer not only would it be grounded to prevent an electric shock, but the fuse in the plug would blow cutting off the supply without fusing the entire house's electrics.

          The reason that the american, and other flat 2 pin plugs, tend to fall out easily is the way they are retained. The holes in the pins are for a sprung copper contact wiper inside the socket that has a detent bump moulded into it to match the hole, providing a away for the plug to be retained. Over time the wipers lose their spring and the detent becomes less and less effective, allowing the plug to fall out easily.
    • Power plugs have always been one of my pet peaves. The Brits do seem to have the most 'feature rich' ones that I have seen but at the cost of bulk.

      I always thought that the style used in North America was a reasonable compromise. If the device does not have a fuse itself, have a fuse in the plug itself. If the polarity does not matter, then have both prongs be of the same size, otherwise have the prongs of different sizes. If the device needs a ground then include a third ground prong. Another nice feature
    • As another post mentions European 2-pin plugs can have different qualities and sizes; the lowest denominator is probably a thin plastic enclosure with a screw in the middle and just the 2 pins, this are old and are very flimsy, after a while they fall by themselves of the wall with a mild breeze. All the recent manufactured plugs are very solid and plug to the wall very firmly (so much so that another problem appears: when yanking the plug off the wall the wall-mounted plug doesn't resist and falls to the g

  • "AMD processor?? But does it run Linux?" (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @01:54AM (#5908429)
    Well, kinda [tu-berlin.de].

    The project hasn't been updated in a couple of months, and it breaks Ethernet bridging, but the idea of running Linux on a sleek little gadget from Apple is still geeky enough to be interesting.

    The Airport is great, but to configure it you need to be running OS 9 or X - horrid news for a high school that I was working at a few months ago. Every machine was running OS 8.6, including the one teacher-owned laptop. Every student-owned laptop was Windows-based.
    I brought in my laptop (which runs Debian) and gave the Airport Base Station Configurator [drexel.edu] a try, but to no avail.

    So - cool device, but it needs to be easier to configure or modify.

  • Gasp! (Score:3, Funny)

    by tunah ( 530328 ) <{sam} {at} {krayup.com}> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @04:43AM (#5908761) Homepage
    And after all these years as Intel's loyal allies...

    Oh, wait.

  • Errr... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Molt ( 116343 ) on Thursday May 08, 2003 @05:14AM (#5908826)
    ...so this guy buys an Apple Airport for his sister, gives it to her as a birthday present, then dismantles it with his handy-dandy toolkit?
    Ah, there's nothing like the warm glow that comes from the giving of gifts.

  • AMD chips in Macs? (Score:3, Informative)

    by jeffasselin ( 566598 ) <cormacolinde@@@gmail...com> on Thursday May 08, 2003 @07:07AM (#5909117) Journal
    I've seen those for years in Macs, same with NEC, TI, etc. Apple have often used AMD chips for their ethernet controllers on previous PowerMacs. There were AMD chips on some Quadra logic boards. Nothing new here or surprising, really.

  • Please don't tease the NSA (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 08, 2003 @10:16AM (#5910329)
    Taking Apart an Airport Extreme Base Station


    Yowzers, and didn't that title just set off every keyword monitor at the NSA.


    I can actually envision some poor computer at the NSA literally having kittens.

  • Anyone have a mirror from before they pulled it?

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