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Portables Hardware

Real-time PC access on your PDA 145

Posted by CmdrTaco from the well-isn't-that-nice dept.
Brooks P. writes "As seen in this story on The Register, Sproqit Technologies creates software that allows you to access your desktop apps in real time over the Internet. No more synchronization. This is accomplished with a Desktop Agent that runs on your (Windows for now) PC, and a 200k Companion running on the PDA. The Desktop Agent uses plug-ins to connect to the apps running on the PC, and the SDK used to develop plug-ins is free. Oh, and the whole thing uses 128-bit SSL for security and works over any connection method: 802.11, modem, cell phone, etc."
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Real-time PC access on your PDA More

Real-time PC access on your PDA

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  • Just wondering how many applications will utilize this. Might be nice to have access to those custom VB apps that aren't widely distributed.

    Aw, who am I kidding. It'll just get used to run Kazzaa searches from anywhere. :D

  • thin client? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ergonal ( 609484 )
    So basically, a PDA that functions as a wireless thin client?
    • Not quite. If this works anything like Adam Tow's Soybo (www.soybo.com) (which came out a month ago), then it enables apps to have different interfaces depending on what you are using. From a cell phone, it would display simple text. From a PDA, there might be some graphics, but the UI would be set up for pen-based computing.

      Mainly, this kind of virtual computing doesn't require you to use your desktop's UI on whatever client you happen to be using, and therefore, it lets you work more efficently assumi
    • No no no! That would be too much like X11R6! Remember, this is Slashdot, where the remote capabilities of X are perceived as a hinderance to 3D game performance under Linux.

  • Citrix/TS/X/SSH. What's new about this? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PSL ( 519746 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:42PM (#5753849) Homepage
    And this is different from Citrix or Terminal Services or a remote X session or good ole SSH how?
    • From what I could tell from reading the article, it's not exactly the same as typical remote access. This basically allows for applications to be developed with a remote access interfaces, using plugins. But you can't use any apps on your PCs unless they are developed with the plugins.

      Personally all I would need is SSH and remote X, though...

    • Re:Citrix/TS/X/SSH. What's new about this? (Score:5, Informative)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @03:06PM (#5754039) Homepage Journal
      "And this is different from Citrix or Terminal Services or a remote X session or good ole SSH how? "

      You get an interface designed to use with your PDA, instead of trying to cram a 1280 by 1024 image on a 240 by 320 screen. RTFA.
      • There are plenty of X applications designed to run on small screens. Take a look around handhelds.org. You can run those on your handheld, or you can run them on your desktop.
    • And this is different from Citrix or Terminal Services or a remote X session or good ole SSH how?

      That was my first thought too, but what it seems to do is run a screen scraping program or something like that to interface with the apps on your pc, then send the data off to the PDA to be displayed in the PDA's native GUI toolkit.

      Reminds me a lot of the green screen legacy apps getting new and improved web front ends and windows GUI's ... just moved that idea off to PC / PDA. Very cool for sure. Makes m
    • Its not as stable, secure, open, etc. This is just a commercial solution for a problem solved by the community with hardware and software developed years ago. Here [killefiz.de]
      • Read the article.

        I have a Zaurus SL-5500. It doesn't do a lot of things that the commercial solutions have achieved- including what this article is talking about. Read it. There also isn't a decent notetaking app that anywhere near the quality or functionality of the Newton notes from the original newton released in 1993. Hell, nothing on the Z is as good as the notes app that comes with PocketPC.

        The Z is cool in a lot of ways, but it is moronic to lie about such things. The Zaurus has no way to rep
        • So.. go buy a pocket PC. What I'm saying is I have all the functionality you're talking about in this article on my Z. I'm not some lazy moron who's unwilling to cope with a little misconvenience. I converted my music collection to ogg 2 years ago and bought the Z because it ran Linux and was the only portable ogg player. Who uses their Z to take notes anyway? I still use a pen and paper. Best tool for the job, eh?
          • RTFA. You do not have the functionality that I or the article is talking about on your Z. I have it to an extent on my Z, but that is only because it is software that I am writing and that no one really has their hands on so far.

            So, people who want to use the best tool for the job- in a lot of cases, what this Sproqit app provides- are just lazy morons? C'mon, I'm sure all the bois think you're awful 1337, but get off it. Why do you need a portable Ogg player? Why not just settle for a P100 laptop? If
            • Okay, since you're obviously so brilliant, then explain to me the difference between something like this and VNC, X11, ssh and the nature of OSS software. I have konqueror on my Z. Its not a plugin or some remotely displayed app. Its the code taken from konqueror on my desktop and streamlined for the Z. So I'm sure I'll have open office and koffice and all my other favorite desktop apps on my Z within the next few years. Plus I get scriptability and automation so I never have to sync my system, it sync
              • I'm not the one pretending to be brilliant.

                explain to me the difference between something like this and VNC, X11, ssh and the nature of OSS software.

                Again, I urge you to read the article. If it still is unclear, have a look at the flash demo. This isn't a VNC clone or anything like it. What does "the nature of OSS software" have to do with it? I mean, how does it factor in to the difference between VNC or X11+ssh and this Sproqit app?

                Repeat after me: "This application does not do remote display of
    • This seems a lot cooler than Citrix, VNC, TS, or remote X11, at least when it comes to getting to the data on your desktop with your PDA. This sort of thing is neat, but only neccesary because most current software- for PDAs and desktops a like, suck. They're not designed for sharing data. I'd rather be using an interface made for a PDA than have to be constantly scrolling a huge desktop app.

  • Reminds me of something.... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    VNC, anyone?
    • They are absolutely correct. I've been doing exactly this for some time. I use my IPaq to connect to a terminal server. Lotta scrolling but it gets the job done when I'm riding in the golf cart.

      I also use VNC on the IPaq to manage a couple of other servers, access my desktop PC and to manage a growing number of Nortel BCM PBXes.

      Nothin new here folks.

  • Quick! Post another story! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Foxxz ( 106642 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:43PM (#5753860) Homepage
    Taco is all like "oh crap! they found out that the last story was bogus! quick post another and distract them!"

    seriously though, this sounds alot like vnc and the many other various remote desktop programs. In fact, i'm using vnc right now to post this...

    -foxxz
  • 1. RIM/Blackberry already does this (in a practical way...nothing fancy)

    2. How many people have internet access on thier PDA's. Lets work on this first as I would love to have an easy (small) device thats efficient for PDA/Mobile web use that isn't a million$$

    -Rob

    • One word... (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Zaurus.
      Does everything you want, cheaply (well, somewhat cheaply). It's wild running WinConnectZ (rdesktop) on it :-)

  • Already done (Score:4, Funny)

    by sulli ( 195030 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:43PM (#5753865) Journal
    Back Orifice 2k [bo2k.com] (FAQ [sourceforge.net] here.)
  • Because in Colorado, there's LOTS of places without digital cellphone access.

    I'm actually pretty impressed at how mature Synchronization has gotten (Frankly Covey excluded. shudder.)
  • I do this everyday with my Zaurus and VNC... this is old school....

  • I liked it before... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Gudlyf ( 544445 ) <gudlyf.realistek@com> on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:44PM (#5753879) Homepage Journal
    ...when it was called VNC.

  • Uhhh? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sure sounds like a non-portable version of VNC over SSH.

    What is so amazing? I even have a VNC client for my Palm (but any kind of encryption would probably overwhelm its CPU)

  • Totally superfluous! Sheesh! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by alexburke ( 119254 ) <.ac.ekrubxela. .ta. .todhsals+xela.> on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:45PM (#5753885)
    This is totally and completely unnecessary for PDAs running Pocket PC connecting to Windows 2000 Server/Advanced Server, Windows XP Professional, and Windows Server 2003 systems. Microsoft has a version of their Terminal Services Client for Pocket PC [microsoft.com], and here [microsoft.com] is some Microsoft-funded cheerleading about how easy it is and how well it works.

    There's no need for any proprietary desktop server application to serve the data to you like the one mentioned in this Slashdot story. In fact, the Remote Desktop Protocol is superior in many ways to applications like VNC and this new geegaw because, as far as I know, it doesn't send everything as bitmaps -- it sends GDI commands and the like, so area fills and most window drawing is actually done at the client, saving incredible amounts of bandwidth in the process. It's actually decently usable over dialup, even though it obviously smokes over broadband. RDP 5.2 is the latest, complete with clipboard, audio, and drive letter redirection. (Yes, copy and paste files between machines and they're all sent encrypted over the same port connection.)

    I'm typing this message on my home desktop PC even though I'm at my girlfriend's house at the moment (with a 1Mbit DSL connection), some 5km from home (with a 3Mbit DSL connection), and everything is pretty snappy. It's not quite as quick as sitting at the console, but it isn't much different. I'm quite impressed by just how well it's integrated into the host OS and how well it works.

    Even better yet, you can connect to any PC using the RDP 5.2 client in the form of an ActiveX control from any web browser. I have such a beast on my own website, and it's come in really handy from time to time, such as when I'm trying to connect from my home PC from older Win95/98 machines that don't have the client software installed. Check it out here [alexburke.ca].

    Okay, so what about PalmOS, you say? As far as I know, no RDP client exists for PalmOS. But this is Slashdot, people. Write one! [microsoft.com]

    Okay, I'm done raving now. Thanks for listening.
    • I think citrix also works on a lower level than bitmaps, I know it's very fast even on a slowish link.
    • only run on XP, or Win2kSever. I have win2k WorkStation and can't find a way to install Terminal Server. This guys stuff doesn't require me to change my OS. Neither does VNC.
    • So it works just like X-window (re. sending no bitmaps but drawing instructions instead) which is also usable over dialup when using LBX (low bandwidth X) which compresses and optimizes away many round trips. The only thing lacking in X is networked audio.

      Hmm, I guess no X-server exists for PalmOS yet?
    • I have a Pocket PC, and Windows Terminal Services Client for Pocket PC won't work on it. Wrong processor. Wrong OS. OK, so mine is a bit old, but I've learned the hard way that when Microsoft says "Windows" they mean "XP" (for now), and when they say "Pocket PC" they mean "Pocket PC 2002" (again, for now). As far as they're concerned, older versions of their products don't exist. All you Win2K users are history, and all you XP users will soon be history, too. Get used to it. Meanwhile, I'm buying all the XB

    • It's actually decently usable over dialup, even though it obviously smokes over broadband.

      Considering how PDA real-time access to your desktop makes the most sense on the go, and disregarding the cost for the moment, I see many people using this over their cell phone internet links, which means slow. There have been advancements in the mobile internet access speeds, but it's still as slow or slower than dial-up for some, not to mention the horrible latency and packet loss inherent to wireless links. The so

    • I'm typing this message on my home desktop PC even though I'm at my girlfriend's house at the moment

      This is really a tough decision. Spend time with the gf with the possibility of some lovin or use her computer to access your computer to post on /. about Terminal Services, Pocket PC, GDI and RDP. Something's really wrong with this picture.

    • ..you can connect to any PC using the RDP 5.2 client in the form of an ActiveX control from any web browser..

      Any browser that's IE, anyway.

  • Clients already available (Score:5, Interesting)

    by charnov ( 183495 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:47PM (#5753897) Homepage Journal
    There are Java, Linux, and Citrix/Terminal Server clients available for many hand held devices already (even the Nokia Communicator phone has Citrix available for it).

    The tail end of the article mentions 18-24 month timeline for "bundled" products and a lot about the desire to license the tech. Sounds like a VC hunt to me.

    Still, I hope they get it to work. The world needs competitors to Citrix/Term Server (could Citrix BE any more expensive???)

  • There's VNC for the Palm, too (Score:5, Informative)

    by jdray ( 645332 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:47PM (#5753898) Homepage Journal
    As referenced above, there's VNC clients (and servers) for a wide variety of platforms. Here's [wind-junkie.de] one for the Palm OS.
    • As referenced above, there's VNC clients (and servers) for a wide variety of platforms. Here's [wind-junkie.de] one for the Palm OS.

      But what about remote X sessions over ssh from Palm OS?

      • But what about remote X sessions over ssh from Palm OS?

        Because X makes such efficient use of network resources, right?
        • Because X makes such efficient use of network resources, right?

          Yes, it's a thing of beauty... ;-)

        • Because X makes such efficient use of network resources, right?

          No, because remote X allows you to open up only the particular application you want to run. This could be advantageous on a PDA, where it may have a chance of fitting on the screen, whereas, with something like VNC you get the whole desktop which may be difficult to manage on a PDA, even if the desktop is only 640x480.
          • With this client [btinternet.com] you can use the scaling features to zoom out and then zoom in by clicking on an area of the desktop.

            This does take some getting used to but it works.

            One advantage of using VNC over X is that with X if you break the connection, all your programs close, while with VNC the desktop keeps running...this is an important consideration with a mobile, battery-powered device like a Palm.
        • If you use a decent protocol compressor, it does. The raw X11 protocol, however, is optimized for local usage.
      • I haven't used VNC with anything X yet, just the Win32 version. We use it at work for remote administration of machines running NT4 (we use Remote Desktop for Win2K). My machines at home are running Mandrake, but I'm still getting my firewall configured, so I haven't set up VNC yet.

        It would be nice to have something like eXceed (?) that gives you just the X window that you're interested in rather than the whole desktop.
    • But if you're going over an insecure connection, (Internet, 802.11b, etc...) there is no built-in encryption. Further, I never found a Palm SSH or ZeBeDee client that allowed for port forwarding and running in the backround.

      If anyone does operate a secure VNC setup on your Palm, what're you using?

  • I'll never understand this (Score:3, Insightful)

    by I'm A Librarian ( 666791 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:47PM (#5753899)
    Seems to me that if you have a device with a large enough display that you can effectively use complex applications that it will be big enough that it ought to have plenty of disk, CPU, and memory (like a laptop). Otherwise, it's just a phone or a pager kind of deal and who the hell wants to poke little buttons and look at a postage stamp-sized display when they're authoring a document? The entire industry built around handlheld computers has left me bewildered.
    • PDA fits in your pocket; laptop does not

      Personally, I don't own either due to the cost factor, but I can understand the advantage of both. I would love the ability to remotely access my PC's at home, from anywhere, at anytime. Once cellular Internet access becomes more affordable I will go this route. Though, yeah, maybe I wouldn't find myself using it as much as I think I would.
    • Thats why you won't need one, you have no use for it. Some of us do have a use for a PDA, for example, I'm a CSE student. Its very useful for me to have a c compiler, jvm, and scheme interpreter in my pocket. I can make use of all the short spats of time i have through out the day, such as when I'm waiting for the bus, I can get a lot done in 20 minutes, even on the tiny keyboard mine has. Its convient always having it as a graphing calculator in my pocket. Its also nice for scheduling and jotting down quic
  • isn't vnc going to come out with a client for the pocketpc or palm and then this won't be necessary anyway? Why remotely access your data when you can remotely access your desktop?
    • Already exists (in both cases).
    • Because remotely accessing your desktop devours bandwidth almost as fast as DV streams. If you are using dialup or something similar, then this is much more effective.

      Plus, this enables you to use the palmtop's UI for desktop apps. Desktop metaphors don't work as well on palmtops as they do on the system for which they were designed.
  • My PocketPC came with a terminal services client. Exactly what does this do that I can't do out of the box?
  • Or for the rest of us who like to do it the free way (and use other OSes than Windows), we can all use the Windows CE VNC client [att.com] or the EPOC VNC client [imhotek.com]. Both have been available for quite some time. If you want the encryption, use ssh.

  • People, please (Score:4, Funny)

    by Hayzeus ( 596826 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:54PM (#5753952) Homepage
    I don't think we've had nearly enough time to digest and discuss the far more significant time traveller story yet. I mean, how can we be bothered with such trivialities as PDA based app sharing after THAT?

  • And this already exists for free... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The Sharp Zaurus has been capable of running VNC for awhile. Info is out there... [google.com] I don't know if other PDAs can run it as well, but I'd much rather have a Zaurus than any Windows CE device.

  • remote control (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BenTheDewpendent ( 180527 ) <ben@junkns[ ]f.net ['tuf' in gap]> on Thursday April 17, 2003 @02:58PM (#5753978) Homepage
    id rather have an app that ran on my plam while its in the cradle with popular apps and other info so i can reach over tap IE, or my e-mail client on my palm screen and have it launch it on my system. or have it display the photoshop tools and tap to select them.

  • Freeware remote access tools. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    There are already several remote access solutions for PDA users. Best of all they're freeware and cross platform.

    Using the VNC graphical protocol [att.com] (servers for Linux, Solaris, Windows, Mac, Dec Alpha):

    Text remote access using SSH (which may be all you need if you want access to the command line and to, for example, send/read email with something like PINE):

  • And this is different from VNC how? I can already see screens of my WinXP and Mac OS X machines using VNC for Pocket PC.

    What's more, Microsoft also offers Terminal Server Clients for Pocket PC 2002. If you get the Hand Held PC 2000 version, and copy the CAB file a Pocket PC 2000 and install it, guess what, it installs. But there are bugs, and license fees to worry about.
  • um... why not just use VNC? Then I can actually use the app in real time with just about any OS.
  • I could have done this years ago by using VNC on the PC and then using a web browser on my PDA.

    Of course... it would kinda suck having to run my PC at 160x160 resolution so I can read the icon labels, though. :)
  • something NEW on windows that has been around for ever on linux

    rsync azv -e ssh /home/user/information home:/home/usr/information

    seems easy to me? anyone else?

  • So you open an encrypted tunnel from your desktop to their site and then connect to their site to use that tunnel? These articles seem to say that "it's encrypted so it's secure". Uh-oh.

    Organizations which require security usually control not only access from the internet to the internal network, but also control access from internal network to the internet, for instance by limiting the access to certain protocols only, say http(s) through a proxy, smtp through internal email server only etc. This is becau
  • I use Inferno

    it uses a protocol (Styx) for remote file access.

    & File access is all you need as all services are controlled by reading, writing & executing files

    how does that work I hear you wonder

    something like this :

    % cat clone /net/tcp
    1
    % echo 'connect tcp!127.0.0.0!80' > /net/tcp/1/ctl
    % echo 'GET http://127.0.0.1/ HTTP/1.0' > /net/tcp/1/data
    % echo > /net/tcp/1/data
    % cat /net/tcp/1/data
    Content-Type:text/plain

    here's a document
    %

    using bind one can transparently import remote file syst

  • This is not VNC/Remote Desktop/Blah (Score:5, Informative)

    by barnaclebarnes ( 85340 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @03:16PM (#5754112) Homepage
    Did anyone who actually commented that this was 'just like VNC, et' actually look at the website?

    This is not a remote desktop solution in the traditional sense. Applications have to be Sproqit enabled and the conent is repurposed for the mobile device. It is not simply a view of your desktop PC.

    In saying this they are pretty wrong when it comes to a couple of things.

    1. Syncronisation: I can spend an hour a day underground (The Tube) with no network coverage and I bet it does not cahche all the data I might want to look at. You need syncronisation as our networks are a) not good enough and b) super expensive for consitently grabbing data from your PC. They would have been better to integrate their data transfer technology and perform a really good background sync (no sync company does this yet).

    2. The Enterprise: They will not take this on as it means every users PC has to be on to take advantage of this. They need a server based solution that runs on back office equipment that takes away the need for indivdual PC's to be always on.

    A couple of the concepts are nice but for your core PIM applications this is not the way to go. /b

  • Pebbles Project from CMU (Score:3, Informative)

    by admiral2001 ( 518452 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @03:34PM (#5754255)
    This sounds very similar to the Pebbles Project [cmu.edu] from CMU. I know because I was one of the chief designers while at school. Granted, I haven't worked on it for awhile.

    The PebblesPC part of the package basically sets up a conduit between a PDA application and PC application. Because the projects goals are more research-oriented, there aren't many commercial applications (that I know of right now). But there definitely was some noise made about SlideShowCommander [cmu.edu]. SlideShowCommander allows the user to control and communicaate with PowerPoint from the PDA, which is useful while giving a presentation. It was pretty neat. You could navigate through the slides, draw on them, etc. It was picked up by Synergy Solutions and is sold through them. Google provides the link here [synsolutions.com], but it appears to be down.

    In any case, the Pebbles project is a free download. Or, you can buy the SlideShowCommander from Synergy, and give *me* some (small) amount of money. <<BIG GRINS>>

  • VNC or Terminal services..

    Nothing new here.
  • Soybo [soybo.com] does this, and it's open source (as well as multi-platform, multi-device, etc., etc.)

  • RTFA: NOT VNC. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 17, 2003 @04:10PM (#5754556)
    Do it. This is not VNC. Not the same idea at all. Yes, VNC is good, this is not VNC... VNC sends each pixel over one way, and the input the other, this sends much less information.

    Each application has have a plugin for it. The plugin takes input from PDA, performs the operation on the PC, returns the DATA, where the PDA renders it in it's "native" view. No scrolling required. It makes it seem like a PDA application, but your PC is doing all the work.

    VNC is totally different, you would have to scroll around to get to everything, since apps you see on VNC are designed for a desktop, not for a PDA... where the resolution is much lower. Not to mention, since it has to send all the data on the screen... it will be a lot slower.

    The article mentions email. Maybe your email app on your PDA isn't as robust as the one on your PC... you have all your filters set up on your PC email app. Well, if there's a plug in for Outlook Express (which I know everyone here uses), you could just have it send "GET ME EMAILS IN INBOX"... it then returns all the emails, but it renders it to make it look like a PDA app.

  • Sproqit? (Score:2)

    by LS ( 57954 )
    Did anyone else besides me initially misread this to be "Stroqit"?
  • What's the new technology here? It sounds basically like how X does it (and does it exceptionally well, by the way). I'm actually surprised it took people this long to figure out how to duplicate such a mechanism.

  • Wow, and this is news how? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mac Degger ( 576336 ) on Thursday April 17, 2003 @04:32PM (#5754733) Journal
    I've done this quite a while back, about a month after the IIIc came out. Used a VNC proggy from Palmgear over my Nokia 7110's IrDA port to phone home.

    The only problem now is that I have broadband, so I can't dial into my PC :) So maybe the article is news :)
    • The only problem now is that I have broadband, so I can't dial into my PC :) So maybe the article is news :)

      I still don't think it's news. After all, couldn't you just set up a WAP and get a wireless card for your Palm (as well as Palm that can take a wireless card)?
  • I think the app is called VNC. has been out for years. works on all platforms.
  • The product talked about in the article isn't about duplicating the functionality of X11 or VNC on a PDA- that can already be done using free and open source software on many PDAs already, including the Newton, PocketPC, vanilla WinCE, PalmOS, and PDA Linux.

    It's neat- but as a person working on a "next-generation" [1] computing environment for PDAs called Dynapad [sf.net], I see it as a symptom of poor applications and application frameworks on both the PDA and the desktop.

    In Dynapad, this app is completely

    It is
  • You keep using this word "real-time". I don't think it means what you think it means. Did data transfers rates over the Internet reach infinity and I didn't notice?
  • ...that supports alternative interfaces in some consistent manner, but puh-leeze, don't pretend that this is the same as accessing _existing_ application. Everything that can fit into a simple user interface can run on a PDA already, and almost everything that is worth being accessed remotely has some piece of interface (CAD, for example) that definitely does not translate well, and user will still have to use the original interface (and then there is X, VNC, etc.)
  • Of course Palms had network hotsync for a long time now. (Not supported on Linux but is supported on BSD).
    Also I was conserned about the bandwith needs of VNC (Sorry my PDA dosen't have broudband connection.. still using CDCP) So I elected to use telnet.

    That needs a telnet client (any PDA) and a *nix desktop (Anything not by Microsoft) and TOZ I'm logged in...
    WHEEEE

    Scoop up afree dynamic domain and I'm free....

    Thow I think VNC is MUCH better when you have the bandwith on your PDA.
    My question becomes can

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