Nerd Vacation to the Earth Simulator 215
eecue writes "Earlier this year I went on vacation to japan. At the end of my trip I was lucky enough to receive a tour of the Earth Simulator, which is the world's fastest super computer. I took pictures and wrote about it."
Hmm (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Informative)
Found some nice info (good old google) on said Supercomputer though since the sites linked article didn't have much.
A Time Article on The Earth Simulator [time.com]
Top 500 page on Earth Simulator [top500.org]
NEC page on the Earth Simulator [nec.com]
Google Translated Powerpoint presentation on the Earth Simulator [216.239.39.100]
A snippet(s) of info:
"Based on the NEC SX architecture, 640 nodes, each node with 8 vector processors (8 Gflop/s peak per processor), 2 ns cycle time, 16GB shared memory. Total of 5120 total processors, 40 TFlop/s peak, and 10 TB memory. "
"Earth Simulator's processors are one-chip LSIs fabricated with 0.15 micron CMOS process and copper wiring. Highly optimized software and high-speed networks that pump massive amounts of data through 7.8TB/s bandwidth connecting the 640 processing nodes are key to the amazing efficiency of Earth Simulator."
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
In 30 years... (Score:4, Insightful)
Just curious. It seems that NASA computers that launched Apollo were amazing at the time - the cream of the crop - yet we have far surpassed that computing power, speed, storage in even laptops 30 or 40 years later.
I can't wait to see my grandkids' pc!
Re:In 30 years... (Score:5, Funny)
However, due to the processing power required by Windows Authorized Edition (AE), JRE 25.0, and the GPU cycles required to render clippie in holographic hi-res, it will still take about a second between a menu-click and anything useful happening... (RMSLinux, however, will still run on old 486 SX machines...)
Re:In 30 years... (Score:5, Funny)
Great! Just in time for Duke Nukem Forever!
Re:In 30 years... (Score:2)
But everyone is missing the best part of quantum components...
Go ahead on overclock a quantum chip all you want, it won't REALLY be fried until you check to see if it is fried, ala ``Schrodinger's Cat"....
no, but we can slashdot the poster .. (Score:2, Funny)
wait, who slashdots themselves ?
what's a little bandwidth cost in the hopes of looking worldly & possibly attracting the attention of a g33k girl =) mmmmm
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Doing 60 in a school zone?
We need a new term. "Fast" is a great word to describe a P5 100 vs P5 233 same type of processor and count. "Fast" is meaningless to describe 2048 x P4 2.3G vs 16 x PowerPC4 dual core 1.3G machines.
Multiple processors DO NOT MAKE any giving thread to run faster. It only makes multiple threads run at the same time.
Re:Hmm (Score:3, Funny)
Bob.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
1) Learn to use a digital camera.
2) by turning off the flash,
3) and holding it steady.
As a flocktographer, you create vacuum.
Reliability of its predictions (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:1)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:5, Funny)
We know something about our language.
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:2)
YOUR language is full of misspellings already.
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:2)
Seriously, guys, it's cute and everything - but we're trying to have a society here. Come to the Midwest or the Northwest and learn some proper English.
Yee-haw.
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Insightful)
What about that peninsula between the Atlantic on one and the Pacific on another side plus Canada on its shore and Mexico connecting it to mainland?
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:2)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Interesting)
All right, every place but San Diego.
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:1)
The problem is grid size. (Score:5, Insightful)
Holes in the grid (Score:5, Insightful)
Many ships record information for the meteorlogical services, but the trouble is that only works where there are ships. In some of the meteorologically interesting places such as the poles are often shrouded in clouds and have few weather stations.
The truth is that many points must be interpolated. Points closest to civilisation are quite good because there are enough measuring stations. This means that short-term weather forecasts are quite good (except in the UK, where they may be right but delayed or advanced by up to a day) but deteriorates over about three days and over a week or so is extremely difficult.
Forget the calculations, if you don't have data points, you are just speculating.
underwater currents (Score:2)
I've read that underwater currents have a huge effect on the earth's weather.
Anyone know if the Earth Simulator is taking measurements from these currents?
-metric
Re:Reliability of its predictions (Score:3, Interesting)
How Stupid!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:2, Informative)
they already knew the answer before they built the earth. Earth's job was to calculate the question. ofc, since the golgafrinchins (sic?) showed up early in the process, we've completly screwed up the calculation.
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
"What do you get if you multiply 9 by 6 and"
(Then they ran of of scrabble pieces
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:1, Offtopic)
In defense of the creators of Slashdot, I have to say that I was an Anonymous Coward for about a year before I took a "real" ID. At the time, there were many reasons to be paranoid about signing up for _anything_, let alone some random, marginally interesting website.
http and related protocols were being hashed out with reverse searches, fingerings of those that were using them, etc. It was not a "clean" transition at the time. (And it's still not. *grumble* *grumble*)
One of the nicer things about Slashdot is that they have defended some core interests from back when "the web" was new, no matter how ridiculous they might seem with modern tech.
It's a good thing. Slashdot and all involved have fought hard. So an AC is an imbecile every once in a while. Fuck 'em.
Everyone who cares will stay. The bad AC(s) will leave. Maybe someone will take their place, maybe not. It's not that important.
Providing the random expert a chance to contribute is well worth it.
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:1)
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:1)
You are missing the huge, major, large, heavy bit of 'net culture I am trying to impart to you about what it was like when Slashdot was new, though. I think.
At the time, AC's were encouraged, because _everyone_ was reticent about divulging any information at all.
But, maybe, I don't understand what you are trying to say
For example, a conversation like this would not have been moderated down (to throw a bone into the fire).
Re:How Stupid!!!! (Score:2)
Yeah, but now that they've got the simulator running, there is no need to **actually** **build** the hardware machine.
Sounds like they may be overworked.. (Score:3, Interesting)
The article mentions that "They were afraid to mention on their website that they offered tours as there were only 3 english speaking employees of the lab". Now this hits Slashdot. Guess they may as well mention it on their site now, since it's already now known in the world of the rabid technophile.
I just rooted it. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:3, Interesting)
I read in Q Magazine (music mag from the UK) a column by Blur's bassist in which he wrote that he was doing some thinking about the value of pi, which as we know is an infinite decimal. No, not in the style of "one ninth" which is, also, an infinite decimal (0.1111... recurring), but rather, an infinite, random sequence of digits, that occurs in a precise order.
Now think about that for a second. He pointed out that if you were to take the number 6 and repeat it a million times, and then string together the phone numbers of everyone in your nation's capital city, then that sequence of digits WILL occur somewhere within pi. In fact, it will occur an infinite number of times, but let's not labour the point.
Taking his original concept, it occurred to me that you could use a system whereby a sender and receiver both have a whizz-bang algorithm for calculating pi. Now, no doubt the maths graduates in Slashdot will chime in with how this can be done, but let's imagine that both you and I have some method of reliably generating a sequence from pi (e.g. start at the millionth digit within pi's sequence, and then crank out the next 100,000 values).
So imagine, say, if you were to take some digital media, e.g. the entire source code for Windows, and zip it up into a single archive. The sequence of values that represent the archive would also occur somewhere within the sequence of pi. Now assuming (ah! a big ask) I can FIND that sequence somewhere in there (may take a while...) I can effectively represent ANY binary stream by simply knowing where to start within pi's sequence, and for how many digits (known beforehand by having access to the original file). This way, the binary stream can be "stored" simply by reference to its starting digit, and its length.
This is a pretty mad concept when you think about it. Data transmissions for previously analysed, static data would become immediate (only two numbers to send) although the burden of using this technique naturally falls on the originator host to find the sequence within pi, and for the recipient to have a method of regenerating those digits. Hopefully, it would be easier to regenerate the sequence for the recipient. So a central computer with access to the media and a staggering quantity of poke (hey! The Earth Simulator!) can scan through the sequence of pi to find the starting point, but once that job is done, the recipients may not have to trawl through all of pi in order to regenerate the sequence (assuming you have an algorith that can start at an arbitrary location within the digit sequence
All digital media could be stored by those two values, irrespective of size. No DRM concerns for accessing digital media (hey, it's just two parameters to the pi algorithm, and I'd be fairly confident on the 'prior art' argument against patents prohibiting this if they tried to patent any restrictions). No media degredation in storage (e.g. CD-Rs not being readable after a few years). Who would need terabytes of storage, when a terabyte could be represented by two numbers? Unless, of couse, the starting point itself is so far into the sequence of pi that it takes MORE space to store the starting point than the size of the binary stream itself.
Anyway this comment is always going to languish in the -1 off-topic silt at the bottom of the Slashdot pond, but this occurred to me not so long ago and so I fancied sharing.
We apologise for this break in transmission, normal service will now be resumed.
Aegilops
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
Interestingly here's a Pi Search page [angio.net] I've found, so you can try out this guy's method of compression. And how did we get so off-topic again?
Finding data in Pi (Score:2)
Therefore looking for the digit n times is the sum of the series 0.1 * (0.9)^i. Which is a geometric series and equivalent to 0.1(1 - 0.9^n) / (1 - 0.9), which equals (1 - 0.9^n). Thus, the average number of tries to find an single digit is (log 0.5/log 0.9) =~ 6.57881
What about two digits? A similar solution: (log 0.5/log 0.99) =~ 68.9676. Three digits? 692.801. Four? 6931.13.
Thus, the amount of data is approximately 70% of the original (a digit with 10 possible solutions found after an average of approximately 7 searches). So this algorithm would compress data down, on average, by 70%. Not bad, but not great either, especially considering the computing power to achieve this. There are much more efficient algorithms around today in terms of computing power vs. compression.
Assumption (Score:2)
Another thought (Score:2)
Re:Another thought (Score:2)
Ah well. It was a nice idea whilst it lasted
Re:Finding data in Pi (Score:3, Interesting)
The probability of finding a particular single digit is 0.1, or of finding a particular sequence of two digits is 0.01 or 0.1^2. The probability of finding a particular sequence of n digits is 0.1^n.
Therefore, the expectation is that on average you will find a particular sequence of n digits once every 1/(0.1^n) digits, or 10^n digits.
The question then arises as to the efficiency of indexing this many digits to locate the sequence desired. The amount of storage required for the index is log base 10 (log_10) of the number of digits you need to look. If we assume the desired sequence will always occur in average or less digits, then the amount of storage required for the index is:
log_10 (10^n) = n (log_10 (10)) = n
Unfortunately, the assumption I slipped in above that the desired sequence will always occur in average or less digits only holds 50% of the time. Therefore, in order to have a good chance of finding the sequence, we need to include a longer search space, and thus the index needs to be just slightly more digits in length than the sequence being stored.
In essence, a very effective data expansion algorithm.
(Proofreading is left as an exercise for the reader.)
Re:PI-encoded Messages (Score:2)
<start-digit > 09754198093241062140396080639620967866
<messag e length > 852
<subencoding> EBCDIC
</PI-encoded-message-end>
(spacin g brought to you by the slashdot linebreaker alogorithm and the number e.)
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
Even if you can generate that string instantly, and look it up instantly, you still have to indicate where that position is. I'm not a math major, but TANSTAAFL tells me that it's quite likely that the amount of storage space you would need simply to represent the location in Pi and the offset would end up being larger than the data itself (on average).
Let's take a stacked example. Say you were looking to convey the data "020873". You need to say "start at location 286178, and then 6 more chars" and (even if you somehow found a way to transmit only as much information as you need, perhaps with some implicit stop char delimiting them) you have now been forced to transmit 7 characters to represent 6.
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
This is exactly the problem: the number of digits required to state the starting point would be on average of the same length as the string of digit you are interested in.
I once day-dreamed of the "perfect" compression algorithm, based exactly on the same idea. Downloaded from somewhere the first 50 million digits of PI. And, twenty minutes later, my example program was not compressing anything...
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
ahh my boy (or girl) you have grasped one aspect of infinity but not the other.
Let's even assume that it is indeed possible to find sequences in Pi that will be everything you ever dreamed of.
Now - you are assuming that your sequence is occuring "early" enough so that your index number will be managable. This may simply not be the case. What if your "starting point," as it turns out, is a number that when represented, actually bigger (make that a LOG BIGGER) than your windows source code? Here what I mean is not that the number is big, but the number is LARGE, as in the storage space which it takes. a trillion is a "big" number but only still takes "128-bits." Now imagine a number that takes a trillion bits / digits / whatever to actually "write out" - and that's what your index will likely look like.
by the way there is an algorithm where you can calculate the digit(s) of Pi without calculating anything that goes before it. In a black-box version it's "int foo (int index)" where index is the digit you want to calculate, and foo will spit out the index-th digit of Pi without calculating any other digits. I think it may even be linear in respect to index (gasp!).
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
Sort of like when I decided that every value is made up of two smaller prime values. Do you realise just how common primes are?
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
Re:I just rooted it. (Score:2)
Try it, Doctor it's as easy as Pi! -- The Master
Easy as pie?! Easy as pie?! Oh! Easy as Pi!
Easy as pi [dwwa.net]
True Nerd Vacantions... (Score:1)
Beware of supermodels, though.
Just think! (Score:3, Funny)
For the majority of people here, this would be the first female entry in their email client's contact list!
Man is she in for a bad time!
Re:Just think! (Score:3, Funny)
Probably the second -- you forgot Mom's email address !
Re:Just think! (Score:2)
That's not really necessary (Score:2)
Name? (Score:2)
shhhh keep it out of the publ. domain (Score:3, Funny)
If any none nerds find out ! it just confirms the general believe that we are all a group
Of sad persons with no life
world simulator? (Score:2, Funny)
Yes yes this is all great and good but... (Score:1)
Forgot to mention it was demolished last year (Score:2)
Rather than fail to complete their orders, they went ahead and demolished the entire thing. This one is a replacement.
[BTW... in case anyone wondered, the answer is 42].
so whats the interface ? (Score:1)
alot of mainframes use a unix box
IBM has now started selling theirs with a intel linux box as the terminal
and whats the instauction format for this beast ?
regards
John Jones
Re:so whats the interface ? (Score:5, Informative)
Flash... (Score:1, Funny)
Rule of thumb: if flash light falls at a right angle at a glass surface, it will bounce back and you'll have an _ugly_ _bright_ spot in your picture. Use either a circular polarizer filter, don't use flash at all and use better film.
About the composition, no, there's not much you can do about that technic-wise. Just look at your pictures and learn from your mistakes for the next time.
Cheers,
A. "won't open an account" C.
Earth simulation, supercomputers and chaos theory (Score:4, Interesting)
This is the fundamental obstacle to simulation of natural phenomena. However, while local parameters remain hard or impossible to predict, global parameters are easier to forecast, and computing power helps. This is where supercomputers come in: for example, they help us study the effect of global warming far out into the future.
Re:odd (Score:2)
Yet it took until the 1960's for someone to figure out that subtle errors at any point in the use of a model of a complex system can cause problems?
I've always thought that was strange. . .
Slashdot Effect gets real. (Score:1)
> offered tours as there were only 3 english speaking
> employees of the lab.
Just imaging whats going to happen now.
Thousands of programmers now know that tours
are avaliable and 1% are going to want tours.
Looks like they will be hireing an english speeking tour guide.
Re:Slashdot Effect gets real. (Score:2, Funny)
Unfortunately they may have to pass you up.
Ambiguous title... (Score:2)
At first, I read the title as:
Nerd 'Vacation to the Earth' Simulator
when it's actually
'Nerd Vacation' to the 'Earth Simulator'
The distinction is important.
Michael
The Earth Simulator (Score:3, Funny)
Cool but... (Score:2)
Striking Similarity (Score:2)
-Lucas
Have you noticed something important about asians? (Score:2, Interesting)
One can say "yeah, but those advances in world climate benefit us after all" but, they don't start from the human body dont' they?
The dream of the new to be constructed CRAY of 1 petaflop designer, is to _simulate_ the human cell, when at the same time japanese _simulate_ the earth.
a macrocosmos to microcosmos relation here I see young jedi.
Re:Have you noticed something important about asia (Score:2)
I need to get outside (Score:4, Funny)
In the meantime, I wouldn't mind playing Zork on
that puppy.
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. Somewhere just over the horizon you can see a Tornado in Texas, and somewhere far behind you a butterfly is flapping its wings in Brazil.
There is a small mailbox here
There are seventeen grues in this field alone. You have no chance to survive, make your time.
>Wonder what happen
*honk*
Earth Sim v8 - Help Needed (Score:5, Funny)
The simulator is a powerful quantum computer within a black sphere composed of a high-tech carbon composite material. The sphere is labeled with a black numeral 8 (the current version) within a pure white circle. Opposite the version designation is the observation view port composed of a material with a high optical clarity.
A dark blue-black liquid contains the qbits in the form of a "quantum stew." The larger the volumes of stew, the more qbits are available for computation. The quantum stew cannot be observed directly without destroying the results of the calculation.
Results of calculation can be observed indirectly by the use of a quantum answer actuator (QAA). The QAA is an Icosahedron composed of a superconducting material. The QAA interacts with the quantum stew and reveals the results of the calculation through the view port without the need to directly observe the stew.
Calculations commence by introducing entropy into the system with several shakes and inverting the Earth Sim v8 to reveal the results. This is where you can help. We have built the sphere, but we need funding to construct huge gripping arm and crane to shake up Earth Sim v8 and turn it over to revel the answer. We are still 2 billion US dollars short of our goal. Without your help, my sources say no and our outlook not so good. But with your help of funding, all signs point to yes. Send money now!
Watch out for the Frogstar Fighters! (Score:5, Funny)
You should be aware of the very real possibility that you're in a synthetic universe specifically tailored to you. A universe where you are the most important person.
After all, you would never, ever have been posted to the front page of slashdot, just so people could see your vacation photos, in the real universe.
MALKOVICH!!!! (nt) (Score:2)
Goedel alert! (Score:4, Funny)
Hope it has a big stack!
Re:How come we've never heard of this? (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.top500.org/list/2002/06/ [top500.org]
Re:How come we've never heard of this? (Score:2)
But as for the name "Earth Simulator", that's exactly what it is, a name. Who knows, in Japanese its name could be The Matrix.
Re:How come we've never heard of this? (Score:1)
Wasn't that a surprise?
Re:How come we've never heard of this? (Score:2)
Re:How come we've never heard of this? (Score:1)
Re:Supersomputers for earth simulation are useless (Score:1)
Re:Supersomputers for earth simulation are useless (Score:1)
Re:Superomputers for earth simulation are useless. (Score:1)
Now if you know something about what causes the strange attractors - for instance the Gulf Stream - you may be able to model the effect of moving an attractor, and so get useful work done.
To give another example - airflow over a wing may be turbulent (i.e. chaotic), but it's still possible to model the aerodynamics to the detail that we need to build an aeroplane.
Re:Supersomputers for earth simulation are useless (Score:1)
That's why, when plotting a Lorenz strange attractor, you can't predict where the next point will fall - but you can predict the butterfly shape that those points will form.
Re:Supercomputers for earth simulation are useless (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Supersomputers for earth simulation are useless (Score:2)
It was STILL worth saying (Score:1)
Re:It was STILL worth saying (Score:2)
Re:Did ya get any good Asian pussy? (Score:1)