Buying a Small, Light Linux Notebook Computer? 1048
"I have no Windows software and will not be running any, not even via WINE. I have no
desire to go through the hassle of purchasing software I'm not going to use and
then fighting to get a token rebate that doesn't actually equate to the cost of a Windows license. Nor am I interested in buying a machine that was purchased with a Windows license, and simply having Windows erased with no refund given.
So far I've found iDot Computers, who will sell laptops with no OS installed. Unfortunately, their lightest,
smallest offering is a hefty 2.8kg brick, 3cm bigger than the iBook in width and depth. What I really want is something comparable to a Toshiba Libretto or Sony VAIO R505--except that neither of those companies want to sell me a machine without Windows.
I'm sure plenty of Slashdot readers have faced the same problem--what's the solution?"
performance (Score:5, Funny)
a Jedi craves not these things, only affordability.
Metamatic - your answer. (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like you want a used machine. I would suggest looking on ebay and/or the computer refurb houses for a machine that is maybe a year old, go with a high quality manufacturer and it could still be under warranty (I personally like Dell, I have three within arms reach of me, counting laptops and my server.)
The only issue I see going with hardware that is a year+ old is the 1394 connection - but if it was top of the line a year ago it should have that connection (my last Latitude C800 did and it was a year and a half old.)
Note that you should be able to find a one year old machine for about half of what it cost new, but remember that today's hardware costs less than top of the line gear did a year ago and is much faster. Based on what I remember, you should be able to get whatever was top of the line a year ago for the same price as the entry level stuff new, but the entry level stuff is going to be about 1.5x as fast as the one year old top of the line machine.
I am not saying it will give you the best bang for the buck, but it will satisify your entire request. Personally I would buy a new entry level machine from Dell (or your favorite company) for about $750 delivered and then toss the XP CD / license in your closet. Add some aftermarket RAM and networking gear and you are all set - for about $900 including the 802.11b.
I just checked, Dell has a laptop (the Inspiron 2650C) on sale for $700 after rebate (yes, rebates suck but I did get mine back
14" screen XGA
128M RAM (www.crucial.com)
20G hd
24x CD
16MB DDR 4X AGP NVIDIA GeForce2 Go(TM)Vid
Floppy
Integrated 56k modem and NIC
1 year warranty.
If you didn't want to jack with the warranty ($150) you could get the 802.11b PCMCIA card and a 802.11b router (I didn't bother to read the details) instead. Brings the price of the system to $850.
Upgrade to a 15" screen for $50.
Nice.
Re:Metamatic - your answer. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Metamatic - your answer. (Score:4, Interesting)
One year old Inspiron 8200 top of the line : 1GHz w/ 20G drive = current ebay price $900.
Brand new entry level Inspiron 2650C : 1.6GHz w/ 20G drive = current new price $750.
the dumb answer... (Score:5, Interesting)
uh, get an ibook? oh wait...
seriously, ibook + osx + fink + apple X11 == everything you want in a linux laptop, except for the ugly fonts. If you're dying for more speed get the new 12" G4 Powerbook (~$1700), which is just like the ibook only smaller in every dimension, and faster.
why exactly does your current ibook fail your requirements, anyway?
Re:the dumb answer... (Score:3, Informative)
money back (Score:3, Funny)
Re:money back (Score:3, Informative)
Google 'windows refund'--it's a work in progress with little result so far.
a slashdot orginal (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd say local connections helped G get his refund. (Score:3, Interesting)
mindset... you know the one: "everybody knows
everybody"
I'd bet that G's dad's Cisco connections did
more to get G the cheque from Toshiba than
anything else, even if the dad in question
didn't have to lift a finger to make it happen.
I don't think that the not-so-well-connected
(read: needy, eg, student of Linux) computer
buyer would get the same hearing - let alone
a similar refund.
To test this: How many -other- Australians
managed to win similar refunds, at about the
same time (ie, even -after- G's [uncashed]
refund cheque was photographed & published
online)?
Not too many...
"Plenty of good info"...? Doubtful at best.
How good depends on how many, who do similar
footwork, will -ever- get -their- refunds,
in future.
Good means effective, not just -apparently- so.
Now, if someone had complained (eg to Oz's
ACCC), eg that vendor(s) were requiring them
to buy unwanted product/license/software from
another source, ie just to get the chance to
buy the computer they wanted to purchase...
-that- might have got a refund-right for every
Linux user.
But, no, that wasn't how G did it... He stopped
when he could show (without cashing) the photo
of his refund check... let the others do their
own haggling...
Read: Re-Invent the refund [paper-chase] wheel!
Result: -Lots- have visited the online photo
of the uncashed check but -few- have
got a refund of their own.
Com'on people, the only way to change this
is to work a bit smarter... & together... ie,
if you want to win, not just cheer-lead...
Re:money back (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe this has changed, but when you buy a new, prebuilt PC, do you have to click an EULA anyway? Your "acceptance" of the EULA comes not as a product of clicking a button marked 'I Agree', but as a mere result of your using the OEM product. Thus, most refund sites stress that in order to get a refund, you must not boot into the preinstalled copy of Windows, not even a single time. They will tell you in no uncertain terms not to turn the PC on until you have boot disks for Linux/*BSD/whatever inserted into it.
Re:money back (Score:4, Informative)
Re:money back (Score:5, Informative)
Technically the oem pays for Windows. This is why its hard to return it. Yes, I relize that most OEM's just pass the cost to the consumer but its not that much since OEM's buy in bulk.
Dell, HP, and Toshiba also get massive bulk discounts in laptop parts which makes up for the price. Dell's are cheap because of this. Go to their website and look at entry level pc's for just $700. Its cheaper to buy a Windows based laptop from Dell and reformat the drive and install Linux then to buy from some small no name company that specialised in Linux but does not get bulk pricing.
Just pay the extra $25 dollars. IBM only pays $15 per copy of Windows for each pc from what I read back in the anti trust trial when ms strong armed it to kill os/2. The price has gone up for Windows alot but its no big deal and its nothing compared to the amount Windows cost in a store. I am sure the money saved from buying from a big outlet is probably hundreds of dollars so more money is being saved.
Or if you hate ms and refuse to support them go buy a powerbook from apple.
They are pricy but have been known for over a decade to be supperior quality. Apple invented alot of the cool stuff in laptops today. The finger pads on laptops for mouse movements is an example of apple's inventions. You can run Linux on a mac as well as have a big selection of software to choose from with MacOSX. Adobe photoshop, IE, MS-Office, games, etc. Another benefit of the mac is that the linux distro's will work better and be less buggy then intel ones because of the limited hardware. They don't need to support 3,000 peripherals from god knows where. They are less buggy and standard configurations are heavily tested by the mac-linux community. This is one of the arguements still used for Unix over Linux. It is heavily integrated with the hardware.
Re:money back (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there something wrong with someone standing up for principles? I think you should be able to buy hardware without buying software (and iBooks don't accomplish this) , regardless of how little it turns out to be when you work out the math. I'm told that MS makes most of their windows-license money from new PC's, so it certainly is not an insignificant amount ($25 is much less than I have heard from other sources)
Re:money back (Score:5, Funny)
Personally I prefer nipples
Re:money back (Score:4, Funny)
</rant>
I prefer the touch pads, personally, and Apple does make the best! Far superior to any I've used on a PC laptop (even some really nice ones [defined as whatever Orifice Depot has out for me to screw with when I'm in there, and that I cannot afford]).
Re:money back (Score:4, Funny)
I feel sorry for your girlfriend.
For some of us, it's no effort at all...
Re:money back (Score:3, Funny)
I'd bet that you wouldn't stand using the eraser-mouse either when it started to burn the skin from your fingertips after a heated gaming session (well, for the only computer I bought with one, more like a heated Solitare session, but that's still a game). Touchpads won't do that to you.
Re:money back (Score:5, Funny)
That sounds like the kind of thing that started a certain tea party in Boston...
Re: Apple *did* have the first touchpad (Score:3, Informative)
Half right, half wrong...
Apple didn't invent it, they licensed it from George Gerpheide. Apple was the first to market a laptop with a touchpad.
If you want a source [azstarnet.com] for this tidbit, click away.
Emperor Linux (Score:4, Informative)
The benefit? You get laptops with full knowledge of exactly what does and what doesn't work under linux.
The catch? You pay the same (or more) as you would in the high street and don't get the shiny Windows CD.
Frankly
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:3, Interesting)
That disc isn't free. The vendor (should have) paid Microsoft for bundling it with the machine. That cost is passed on to the buyer.
Also referred to as "the Microsoft tax".
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't you pay anyway? (Score:5, Interesting)
And as another poster mentioned, you will probably spend way more money buying such a machine from some no-name vendor (and still pay the Microsoft tax) compared to the cheaper price of a name-brand laptop with Windows pre-installed.
One alternative for the poster is to sell a $50 pen with a free copy of Windows included
Re:Don't you pay anyway? (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft site licenses usually require companies to pay for machines which don't have Windows on them.
Depends on the license that companies have, but not generally true.
----- -----
I can only imagine that Microsoft makes the same requirements on computer vendors when they sell machines without Windows, or with some other OS. So even if you buy a new machine without Windows, you will probably still be lining Microsoft's pockets buying such a machine.
Not true anymore. Microsoft USED to force OEMs to pay OS licenses for every PC shipped, regardless of whether every PC actually has Windows installed on it.
Microsoft and the U.S. DOJ signed a consent decree in 1994 that halted this 'per processor' license fee (among other practices alleged to be improper).
OEMs pay licenses only for machines shipped.
Now, between volume rates, advertising allowances, joint marketing & partnering arrangements, licenses for other products, etc, etc,. MS still has incredible licensing flexibiliy, and due to its market control, massive power over those OEMs. But no licenses for every machine shipped.
Are you sure? (Score:5, Informative)
probably not Windows-free (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:probably not Windows-free (Score:5, Informative)
Note: I have no problem with Emporer Linux's business model, and wish them success. However, I don't think they'll meet the submitter's requirement to never pay for Windows.
Re:probably not Windows-free (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:probably not Windows-free (Score:5, Insightful)
You just very eloquently explained why calling it "the microsoft tax" is really not far from the truth. If it is really that hard to obtain a product in a particular market without sending 5% of the purchase price to a company in a different market, how can you call that anything but a tax?
Re:probably not Windows-free (Score:3, Insightful)
With Windows on laptops, I get no choice at all: Windows is it. And if I install Linux, I can't re-sell the OEM version of Windows.
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Although I agree that you are voting with your money, your assumption, ATMAvatar, isn't exactly correct. You are telling the market, "either I like Windows, or, I like the hardware and care about hardware more than software." The difference between my statement and your statment is the reason that Microsoft spends so much to insure 100% OEM compliance.
"When you can no longer buy computers without Windows, you have lost the most basic right of a consumer - the ability to choose what product you spend your money on."
I would argue differently: When you can no longer buy computers without Windows, the market for computers without Windows is too small/unprofitable for a company to take advantage of. I love it when people say, "Microshit is junk/sucks/etc." I always respond that Microsoft must be doing something right, because 90%+ of desktop computers around the world run Windows. There's a obviously a *market* for Windows software and with 90%+ of market penetration, I'd say that Windows is excellent (there's not many products and industries with marketshare like that).
In a "Democratic" society, the citizens should be making the laws. I get scared when the RIAA, BSA, MPAA has so much lobbying power, because by changing the laws, these companies can make our markets innefficient. However, I'm happy with our capitalist society as it is right now. Even though Microsoft commands a vulgar profit margin on each copy of WindowsXP that it sells (a sign of an inefficient market), I understand that software is a commodity and in the long run (10 years? 5 years?), Microsoft is royally screwed with respect to operating system software. The same holds true for office/productivity software. I kind of feel sorry for them, since the best they can come up with is "XBox".
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
"When you can no longer buy computers without Windows, you have lost the most basic right of a consumer - the ability to choose what product you spend your money on."
I would argue differently: When you can no longer buy computers without Windows, the market for computers without Windows is too small/unprofitable for a company to take advantage of. I love it when people say, "Microshit is junk/sucks/etc." I always respond that Microsoft must be doing something right, because 90%+ of desktop computers around the world run Windows. There's a obviously a *market* for Windows software and with 90%+ of market penetration, I'd say that Windows is excellent (there's not many products and industries with marketshare like that).
Nonsense. MicroSoft has been engaged in conduct that violates anti-trust laws, and much of their financial success is based on their predatory conduct, not on the merits of their products.
To me (and apparently to the author of this topic article) paying money to MicroSoft is like supporting organized crime. I'm not going to admire organized crime for its financial success and conceed that it "must be doing something right," even if I am trapped into having to deal with them, somehow.
When MicroSoft plays fair (or at least plays legal) and makes a big profit, I'll be impressed. As long as they continue their criminal conspiracy to violate antitrust laws, I'm going to continue to feel soiled every time I'm touched in any way by their lousy software.
Adrian
Buy a Used Laptop - No Microsoft Tax (Score:5, Insightful)
eBay is a great place to start looking
Re:Emperor Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
If that's not a fuck job, I don't know what is. I mean, the evidence here clearly supports that A) when you buy an EmperorLinux laptop, you are clearly still paying the Microsoft tax - they are just wiping Windows XP off of it (or you can still get it dual boot if you want it as such). And B) you are paying a shit price. The worst retail price online I found for the VX-89 was around 1700 dollars. So why not just suck it up and accept that the MS tax is unavoidable for laptops, and buy a decent laptop you like?
I understand the idea of voting with your dollars, but it doesn't get through to the shitheads at Sony corporate since they are still shipping a Vaio with Windows license to some schlocky overpriced "Linux" reseller. Or find a source of laptops that truly doesn't include the MS tax (they do exist, but I don't know of any super lightweight ones).
12" Apple PowerBook (Score:5, Insightful)
they're smaller (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:they're smaller (Score:5, Informative)
You better shut up if your only experience with the iBook came from watching a demo. I am using OS X on a 700 MHz iBook for programming C++ and Java, browsing, playing music, editing graphics, etc, and it feels faster than a Sony Vaio with more than twice clock rate.
The $999 iBook comes with a proper 3D card (ATI Radeon 7500) and 16 MB dedicated VRAM, while some of much more expensive Vaio models use cheap Intel integrated graphics with only shared VRAM. Personally, I wouldn't touch a Dell with a 10" pole, having known 3 people all had discovered serious problem with their Dell laptops within weeks of purchasing.
While there are Wintel laptops lighter than the iBook, none has longer battery life and full features. Another huge advantage of the Apple portables is that they all come free with much more best-of-class software than any of the Windows or Linux machines: iPhotos, iMovies, iTunes, iCal, iSync, iChat, and so on.
If you are a programmer and loves play with Unix and open standards, you simply can't get a better deal than Mac OS X. For instance, OS X comes with gcc 3.1 enhanced by Apple to handle Objective C / C++ on top of standard C / C++, and there are dozens of other tools that allow you to write and debug native Carbon, Cocoa, QuickTime, OpenGL, or terminal applications. Many popular open source applications (such as Perl, Ruby, Apatche, X11) are preloaded, and others (like MySql, PostgreSQL) can be downloaded and installed with a few mouse clicks. Project Builder and Interface Builder are free and much more powerful than tools on any other Unix platforms including Linux. In contrast, MS Visual Studio.NET costs up to $3000.
Powerbook? (Score:5, Informative)
Not a problem because... (Score:3, Informative)
When using an external keyboard it's more of a pain - but then you also usually have an external USB mouse with two buttons (which I do). I really don't find it annoying to switch between the two, and in fact more and more I find myself away from the dock and just using the computer wherever I am (since I have wireless almost every I sit around now).
buy used. (Score:5, Informative)
just be careful when buying used- I made the mistake of buying from a tradeshow [homelinux.net] and it took 2 months before I could get a usable one.
I did end up with a gateway solo2150 which is working pretty well.
if you're not playing games, a 600 mhz will work fine. I have kde 3.1 and openoffice on debian and it runs with little lag.
powernotebooks.com (Score:5, Informative)
windows tax not required. was in a slashdot article awhile back.
Re:powernotebooks.com (Score:5, Funny)
>while(reading_slashdot){++nerdiness;--so
IANAC (I am not a compiler) but I am guessing your generic C compiler might get pissy about not having a semi-colon before the ending brace.
Re:powernotebooks.com (Score:4, Funny)
Re:powernotebooks.com (Score:3, Funny)
while (reading_slashdot) nerdiness++, social_life--;
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Knoppix. (Score:5, Interesting)
Kind of ironic that you're not permitted to 'test' the machine you're about to fork out several thousand dollars for.
When I was last searching for a laptop I encountered this brick-wall mentality, consequently I ended up telling them "Oh, in that case, no sale, goodbye" ( Commissions obviously doesn't exist in sales any more ).
As for the reasoning behind the no-fiddle mentality, it's because they're afraid that you'll install some sort of hacker software.
Fujitsu P2000 Series (Score:3, Interesting)
here is a Link [fujitsupc.com] to the fujitsu website for it.
i have an older version with a slower 800mhz processor and 4 megs of video ram. it struggles with the latest divx encodes unplugged, but plugged in they display fine. The best feature is its real life 8-10 hour battery life. i could never go back to a 2 hour laptop.
apple (Score:5, Funny)
Yao and mini-me use 'em, why can't you?
HP is not the way (Score:5, Informative)
Re:HP is not the way (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, $0.02. HP is really oriented towards corporate sales and not personal sales, and it is dern near impossible trying to get decent specs from them. But, the machine has worked like a charm so far, and its been through a lot.
Back to the original poster. If you want Firewire built in, you gotta buy a MAC or a SONY. If you won't pay for Windows, you will get a MAC. End of story. However, I dislike the SONY laptop keyboards, and the Macs run like crippled pigs (even if they look beautiful and have sweet user interfaces).
I am not sure what I would get now. The built-in Firewire is much more limiting than you would think, due to licensing issues. In laptop use I have come to value battery life more and more, as well as a decent keyboard. I'd probably look at Crusoe powered laptops to get good battery life, and then look for one with a good keyboard.
Quick links (Score:3, Informative)
I have an answer. (Score:4, Informative)
why not go with the iBook (Score:4, Informative)
maybe you could find some usful info here too http://www.linux-laptop.net/
Buy used. (Score:5, Informative)
Since you've ruled out the iBook, I'd suggest that you look for a laptop that meets your requirements on the used market (eBay, local want ads, computer resellers, outlets that deal in refurbished and formerly leased equipment). Someone else will have already paid the Windows Tax for you, and the money you save will more than compensate for the time you'll have to spend scraping Windows off the hard drive and installing your operating system of choice.
k.
You could try X-Technology (Score:3, Informative)
P4 2.4Ghz/512mb DR/40GB/DVD/CDRW/USB 2.0/FireWire/56K/LAN/15" TFT for ~1200
No OS, no brand name. I have no idea if they are good are not, but they look decent.
-Jon
We recently had a thread like this in c.o.l.misc (Score:5, Informative)
For more information about Linux on laptops, go to the web page about Linux on laptops [linux-on-laptops.com]; help can be found in the Usenet newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc [google.com] or comp.os.linux.hardware [google.com]
- Sam
Talk about wierd drivers... (Score:5, Informative)
hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Re:hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Winner, Most Disturbing Image of the Day.
The P2000 does come equipped with firewire. (Score:3, Informative)
Here's a direct link [fujitsupc.com].
Also, here is a very good user discussion forum concerning the P2000 laptop, which actually has a seperate forum for the linux users, so you can check up on what you can expect:
http://www.leog.net/fujp_forum/ [leog.net]
On a sidenote, I can say that Fijutsu will *not* ship any laptop without the windows license. In fact, when you send in the system for repair and they need to replace the hard drive (which contains the repair image), you have to pay for a new license.
Go For The PowerBook (Score:5, Insightful)
I recently acquired the last model of the PowerBook series. 15"/G4/1G RAM. I must say I am very impressed with the hardware, the size, the layout, etc. I'm still trying to get used to the Operating System.
I do a lot of Java Development, and have gotten my favorite IDE to work (Eclipse), and have gotten JBoss to run semi-succesfully. There are a lot of things to get used to though. The built in mouse has but one button, so you must ctrl->click to do a right click...that is annoying as heck. So, purchase an external mouse whatever you do.
being able to drop to the shell and be in a familiar place is very nice. Install Fink and you can apt-get your favorite software. There are a lot of apps out there...more than I thought there was (www.versiontracker.com).
All in all...I'd say get a PowerBook and leave OS X on it, and install your favorite Open-source software.
If you choose to wipe it clean and install a version of Linux...it is still very impressive hardware, so you should be in a win-win situation.
My two cents...
Re:Go For The PowerBook (Score:4, Informative)
The "mouse" is a touchpad, isn't it? Many PC touchpad drivers have a feature that tapping in the upper-right corner is a right click. Hasn't somebody made such a driver for Macs or for Linux on Mac?
I don't own a Mac or Powerbook, but I wish I did.
Neocomputers (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a link to the custom laptop page. [neocomputers.com]
Are you a troll. (Score:5, Insightful)
If there's one place where Apple kicks ass (and I'm of the opinion there are more), it's in full-featured notebooks.
Dude! You're getting an Apple!
Fujitsu Lifebook (Score:3, Informative)
There are also a number of 2-4 pound laptops from Dell, HP, Gateway, etc.; that's what I have right now. They are considerably lighter than the iBooks, have comparable or better battery life, and are much, much faster. They often don't include the CD/DVD in the main laptop, but frankly, I prefer that choice; it's easy to plug a bus-powered CD/DVD into the USB2 or FW port.
You will effectively not find a notebook where you don't pay the Windows tax: the big manufacturers just bundle it that way, and if anything goes wrong with the machine, they will have you run stuff under Windows before even accepting it for warranty return (I have been there). Apple is no better: you can't get their HW without their OS, and they won't even support their laptops connecting to a non-Apple wireless access point.
Re:Fujitsu Lifebook (Score:5, Insightful)
oh really. i bought an ibook and called them up when i couldn't connect to my linksys WAP. the guy told me exactly what i needed to do. very helpful. if you want to bash apple, at least know wtf you're talking about.
Re:Fujitsu Lifebook (Score:4, Informative)
I own two Macintoshes. One of them didn't work with my non-Apple AP. Everything else did (Windows, Linux). Apple tech support told me there was nothing they could do--"We don't support connecting to non-Apple 802.11b access points, it may or may not work. You could bring it in to a dealer that has an airport set up to see whether it's a hardware problem."
Yes, Apple tech support is generally good and helpful. Their folks seem to be smarter than those at PC companies. But there are limits to what they support (and what they can support). And they will almost certainly not support Linux on an iBook either.
So, if you want to bash me, at least know WTF you are talking about.
Notebooks are mass market items. (Score:3, Insightful)
The only way to assemble one is if there's a commodity hardware standard for notebooks or subnotebooks... but there's little chance of that happening since much of the size advantages of subnotebooks is a result of the tight intergration that an all-in-one solution affords.
So you're pretty much stuck buying something OEM.
Personally I can't see why you shy from an iBook. With an iBook, you're paying for Mac OS X anyways.. Although nothing is stopping you from installing Linux on it- once you give OS X a shot you'll probrobly won't need to.
Windows Tax vs. Apple Tax (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Windows Tax vs. Apple Tax (Score:3, Informative)
Except that oddly enough, when people compare the price of PC laptops to the price of Apple laptops, they almost invariably compare the lowest-priced PCs they can find to the Apple laptop.
When you compare solid, reliable, long-lasting PC laptops to their Apple equivalents, the "Apple Tax" disappears. If you want to buy a cheap Dell and replace it in 18 months, that's fine, but if you want 3+ years out of your laptop, you'll have a tough time beating an Apple laptop for durability and reliability.
Powerbook 12" (Score:5, Insightful)
The catch is always software. With Mac OS X, you get great software. Better by far than any Linux configuration on the desktop. Want to burn a CD? Insert the bank CD, drag the files onto it, and then eject it ("do you wish to burn this CD?")
How easy is that? I don't have time to fsck around with cdrecord and mkisofs anymore. I just want to burn a goddamned CD. I just want to connect to a wireless network. I just want to watch a DVD. I just want to fire up emacs and write some code. I don't want to tinker and stuff around all day making things work.
So remember, hardware is half the story. Software is the other. If you can take the mac premium price, you get the best of both worlds.
Re:Powerbook 12" (Score:5, Funny)
Tell that to the guy that burned his penis.
DELL Inspiron with Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Couple links... (Score:3, Informative)
You might also take a look at Los Alamos Computers [laclinux.com]. They aren't as light as you want, but they might be an option.
QLI [qlilinuxpc.com] is also an option, but weight is an issue again.
Finally, Emperor Linux [emperorlinux.com] has some very light looking machines
Good luck.. I don't have any experience with any of these companies except for Micron PC.. You might do a quick search on google next time...
I smell a rat (Score:5, Insightful)
See a market , exploit that market and I think we may being exploited here.
Re:I smell a rat (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't always get that by buying a notebook off the shelf and installing Linux yourself. For some people and/or businesses, it might be worth the markup to receive the hardware and know that it's already set up, everything works, and help is just a phone call away.
Re:I smell a rat (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm moving to PPC/Linux.
I was going to say something insightful, but: (Score:4, Insightful)
I *do* find it F*cking hillarious that you would buy and Apple notebook computer, and load linux onto it, and be just as happy.
OHMYGOD: Apple won't sell a laptop without an OS either. THE BASTARDS!
It's quite odd that the
You feel better about paying the "Apple Tax"?
Now, Merits of Mac OS X aside, if the poster wants *Linux* on the desktop, buying an iBook hardly fixes the problem, as a matter of fact, it does just encourages Apple, 'Cause no-one complains.
In an Ideal world, you could buy that notebook Windows free. Trouble is, welcome to earth. Suppliers like companies that build millions a year vs thousands a year. They get cheaper access to the components to build laptops. Even if you find a distributor that ships and OS-free laptop, the added cost for that distributor to build laptops in small quantity would drive up the price, most likely past the point of buying one with Windows included.
Buy the laptop based on what you want it to have, suck it up and chuck away the Windows or MacOS license. Or resell it on ebay.
Now, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Re:I was going to say something insightful, but: (Score:5, Insightful)
Obligatory Powerbook answer (Score:5, Interesting)
It's been said, but not like this.
Look, what you really want is a PowerBook. You know it, everyone here knows it. You just won't admit it.
So let's compare features. The Apple certainly has no potential whatsoever of running Microsoft Windows except through some complete emulation/virtualization software. Score one for Apple. The Apple comes with an actual GUI far superior to Microsoft Windows (not even a contest) and much more polished than your typical UNIX GUI. Score another (or a couple) for Apple.
Want more? Well, your Mac is actually capable of running Microsoft Office should you later find yourself in a bind and be REQUIRED to deal with it to put food on the table. On the plus side, you can always pirate it and you don't need Windows or Windows emulation software to run it. That's worth about a half a point (MS Office isn't that great in my book). Your Mac will also be able to run just about any open source program you want. Furthermore, Apple has now even decided to provide an official version of X11 which they have even extended to allow full access to the OpenGL extensions. That means that you can create "lickable" GUIs using the X Window System.
But even if you don't want to run Mac OS X (and trust me, you will), you can always run Linux on it. There are several very good quality PowerPC distros available. Furthermore, even if you go this route, it still doesn't preclude you from running MacOS X (or 7 8 or 9 for that matter) using the mac on linux software.
And on top of all of that you'll be supporting a company who actually understands that it is customers that drive the bottom line; a company that creates GUIs that even your mom can understand, GUIs that actually make sense and help you get on with what you are trying to do-- especially if you are a hard-core geek.
So please at least consider the Powerbook. It's a sleek machine, it's extremely solidly built (well, the 12" model I hear leaves something to be desired, but the rest are excellent). It comes with a good OS. You can run Linux on it. And you're not supporting a company that supports Microsoft. In fact, you are supporting a company that actually competes with Microsoft (on some small level). A company whose CEO made a little deal with Microsoft and got a lot of gain for very little (putting MS IE in as the default browser, BFD).
In short: you know you want it dude!
ibooks are fine (Score:3, Insightful)
and, the best part, i get 3.5-4 hours battery, plus, the it truly is a laptop. i can leave it my lap for hours. everything just works. usb, firewire, cd-rw, etc. yes, i have gotten all to work fine in linux. i use linux in my classroom. have for a few years. i was thinking seriously about a dell, or powernotebook.com laptop. but i ended up with the ibook simply because it is a sub 5 pound unix laptop and i didn't want to pay the m$ tax either. if you measure the price, you're not giving up too much with an ibook compared to a PC laptop. and you're getting a ton more. just get minimum 256mb, preferrably 384mb.
IBM (Score:3, Informative)
They also sell the Thinkpads with Linux.
My experience with Dell refund (Score:3, Interesting)
So, this is what I did.
1.) Don't boot the software.
2.) Don't open the software.
3.) Since you have not agreed to these licenses, the "thou shalt not resell this" does not apply to you.
4.) So, I resold the license to a guy at work for $50. (There was no real OS CD, just a recovery disk. However, he had one already, so I just sold him a license).
5.) In theory, you could sell this on ebay, but I've heard of MS using its' clout to pull those ads.
Of course, there is another reason to actually fight with the OEM - MS can no longer publish those "we run on 95% of all consumer PC's sold", when what really happens is that many people wipe the disk and install another OS. (I'd call it perhaps 25% dual boot, and maybe another 10% just do 1 OS.)
Re:My experience with Dell refund (Score:3, Informative)
You might want to re-read that EULA. OEM licenses are not only not for resale, they're tied to the hardware. It doesn't matter if you booted it or not - your co-worker did, and he's running an unlicensed copy. It sounds like you got the better of the deal.
"Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The SOFTWARE is licensed with the HARDWARE as a single integrated product and may only be used with the HARDWARE. If the SOFTWARE is not accompanied by new HARDWARE, you may not use the SOFTWARE."
IBM ThinkPads (Score:4, Informative)
try this (Score:3, Informative)
Why is the Author not willing to pay MS, but Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
The iBook is cute, but, IMHO overpriced. Moreso, the lack of a PC Card slot and the lack of IR means I won't be getting one.
The author is going out of his way to avoid giving MS any money for something he won't use, but seemed to have no problem paying apple for software he won't use. My point is perhaps he should not be outright opposed to buying windows if he gets a better machine. Windows "only" adds maybe $30 to the cost of a PC.
CNET Notebook section (Score:5, Informative)
My take on notebooks (currently); wait. Banias [tomshardware.com] is around the corner (March 12 last I heard) bringing +3 hour battery time coupled with excellent performance (it's easy to find slower laptops with significantly longer battery times though). Cost will be an issue (if you're looking at sub-$1500), so I'd suggest waiting even longer after Banias. Having performance, price and portability all in one laptop is about to become possible though; all you need to do is hold off from purchasing for a bit more.
Japan Rush (Score:3, Informative)
So don't pay!
Want to know how far Apple has come? (Score:5, Insightful)
Think this would of happened 2 years ago?
make a statement- give to GNU and EFF (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want to make a statement by spending an extra $500- $1000 just to not have Windows, fine. I suggest you can make a more effective statement by just getting the commodity laptop and giving the $500+ you save over an allegedy "Windows-free" machine to GNU, BSD, and/or EFF, depending upon the particular point you are trying to make.
If you truly want to avoid money going to MS, just get an iBook ( or Powerbook if you can swing it.) Those are great, sturdy, well-arranged machines. Actually, I'm not sure how sturdy the Powerbooks are but the iBooks are unbelievable and really are made for 12-year olds as far as being tossed in backpacks and so on.
IBM or Dell. Call for no OS (Score:5, Informative)
If you, however, call them on the phone and talk to one of their sales reps, you can have the bundled software removed (including the OS).
I would recommend a Dell, or if you have the money for it, an IBM Thinkpad. I love my ThinkPad.
You just have to talk to a real person, which I understand is sometimes difficult for some computer literate people, but you have to work to get what you want in life.
Stay away from the R505 (Score:5, Informative)
I just replaced a R505 with a 12" PowerBook. In every respect, the Apple is the superior machine:
The R505 series of Vaio feel very very cheap. The nice metal cover that had been on the older series Vaios has been replaced by a run-of-the-mill piece of plastic. After a year, the screen hinge barely works, and the power adapter socket will only make an adequate connection when I hold it just right.
On paper, the R505 is smaller, but it doesn't feel any smaller. The way the 12"PB is hinged makes it open in a very compact way - unlike the R505 which seems to need a great deal more room to fully open. On a train or plane, the 12" PB can be held on the tray table with the screen at a reasonable angle even with the seat reclined in front of you. No chance of doing this with the Vaio.
Finally, the PB12" is much much smaller when you consider its relative size with the DVD drive installed. On the Vaio, you need to plug the unit into its base to get the DVD drive - doubling the size and weight of the thing. With the Apple, it's just there, and just works.
You say you're fine with a PCMCIA 802.11 solution, but have you really used one of these for any length of time? The antenna portion of the card makes for an awkward fit - especially compared with the elegance of the Mac's built-in airport.
Don't get me started on OSX. You want to run Linux why? Honestly, with X11 installed within OSX, I'm finding it hard to find reasons to run Linux.
TransMeta (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.antelopetech.com
http://www.transmeta.com
Buy an off-lease Dell (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think you're to beat a 12 inch iBook or Powerbook for small and light, though, and if "[p]erformance isn't a major concern," why are you worried about it enough to rule out a Mac?
Qli Linux PCs (Score:5, Informative)
Qli [qlilinuxpc.com] sells new laptops with Linux preinstalled. Their prices range from one thousand to over two, for a fully loaded machine. They don't sell any that are tiny, like the Vaio, but there are other [laclinux.com] companies [emperorlinux.com] that do sell refurbished laptops and small form factor [emperorlinux.com] laptops with no Windows tax. I chose Qli because I was looking for a particular feature set, and because one of their installation options is Gentoo [gentoo.org], which is my current favorite distribution.
I got an 1800MHz, 512MB (2GB max), 15.1" LCD, 20Gb, DVD/CDRW laptop for a shade over $1800. It has onboard ethernet, three USB (one of which is USB 2.0), onboard firewire, and a single CardBus slot. It was, practically, the perfect configuration I was looking for; the price was reasonable, and (as I said) they offered Gentoo as an install option.
My experience with Qli has been good. I agreed that they would install Gentoo 1.4, which is technically still beta, and this was Qli's first 1.4 laptop, so I had to do some work after the machine arrived to get it fully configured. I would expect that if you chose Gentoo 1.2, Mandrake, or Redhat, it would arrive fully configured. Qli provides a large number of installation options, and money you pay for the distribution of your choice (which varies) goes to the distribution.
The best thing about Qli, IME, was the customer service. The staff are extremely knowledgable and helpful, and are good about responding to support requests. They have a good understanding of kernel configurations, from which kernel modules are required to support which features to various configuration options.
I'm also very happy with the hardware. Although it isn't yet supported by Linux, I was pleasantly surprised that the laptop came with an unadvertised MMC/SD slot.
There are a couple of hangups with my particular hardware, but none of it is Qli's fault. The laptop is entirely ACPI, and ACPI support in Linux is immature. Consequently, I can't suspend the laptop (!) -- yet. OpenGL is proved to be a bear to get working, but this is due to my choice of distributions; apparently, Redhat on this laptop has full accellerated GL support out of the box. There is an onboard WinModem, but we know about those.
In summary, I can recommend Qli. You need to evaluate your own requirements, and then send them an email before you buy. They'll give you status reports on various configurations and recommend a system for you.
[Disclaimer] I do not work for Qli, and I don't receive any compensation for recommending them. My only relationship with Qli is that I've recently purchased a laptop from them.
Re:Simple solution: (Score:3, Funny)
You mean peel an Apple?