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Hardware

Logitech Z-680 Dolby 5.1 PC Speakers Reviewed 267

Posted by CowboyNeal from the woofers-and-tweeters dept.
PhatBass writes "PC Speakers certainly have come a long way from the little buzzers we used to listen to before the days of SoundBlaster. Remember the 'Windows Speaker Driver' that gave you more than beeps and buzzing through the little cone in your case? Well now we have full Dolby Surround Sound setups, THX Certified, the works, for Gaming, DVD and Multimedia bliss. Take a look at the sweet Z-680 setup from Logitech that is reviewed here, they sport 1000 Watts of Peak Power, a hardware Dolby Pro Logic II 5.1 Decoder, Digital Inputs and serious style."
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Logitech Z-680 Dolby 5.1 PC Speakers Reviewed More

Logitech Z-680 Dolby 5.1 PC Speakers Reviewed

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  • PC Gamer.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:41AM (#5249289)
    Already gave them a 10 and said they sounded just as good as the Klipsch, at ~200$ cheaper. I trust websites for reviews as much as, heck, as much as I trust slashdot for not posting repeats.

    • junk (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TheJesusCandle ( 558547 )
      Just like everything else that has the words "computer" on it related to audio.

      If you want really good computer speakers to listen to music on or as a good audio refrence... go to your local guitar center and buy a set of studio monitors and a studio amp... they're over in the mixer section...

      For the same amount of cash as these overpriced and horribly overrated junk you can get something real.

      I found the most entertaining the 1000 watt rating.. Yeah right. in low-end car audio ratings... I have a Crown stereo amp here that is only 25 watts and cost $400.00 and will kick the crap out of anyone's home stereo that cost around $400.00

      a watt rating is 100% useless... tell me the watt rating RMS at a distortion level. anything higher than 0.05% THD is junk.

  • Hardware? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Jucius Maximus ( 229128 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:46AM (#5249305) Journal
    There should be an 'advertisements' topic on slashdot.
    • They are posting articles that correspond to OSDN affiliation elsewhere, and posting the URLs under related links.

      I'm not getting at /. for doing this, just thought i'd point it out incase anybody hadn't noticed.

  • Why the marketing relality distorion field? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Max Romantschuk ( 132276 ) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:46AM (#5249307) Homepage
    With a total output of over 500 watts and a frequency response of 35-22000 Hz you could power a mid sized dance floor... Fact is these figures aren't really true.

    The problem is that measuring these figures aren't done according to any standard weighting... the frequency response of my subwoofer at home is 39-200 Hz, the lower end at -3 DeciBels. The problem is these manufacturers don't report weighted figures. For all we know 35 Hz could be at -10 DeciBels, which is much lower than nominal volume.

    This is why you never ever read the specs... listen to the speakers.

    I'm not saying these speakers are bad. I'm just saying that the figures stated in the specs aren't comparable to professional or HIFI equipment.
    • Same with the characteristic "Watt" itself. Root Mean Square? Peak value? ...? - not really comparable.
      btw, thank you for the good comment.

    • Re:Why the marketing relality distorion field? (Score:5, Informative)

      by 13Echo ( 209846 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:23AM (#5249466) Homepage Journal
      You beat me to this post. ;)

      I laughed when I saw "1,000 watts of power". Speaker power ratings are horribly misleading, and should be taken worth a grain of salt. This is especially true for paper cone PC speaker sets.

      The level of loudness or efficiency and bass response is very dependant on the amp's ability to drive the speakers, as well as output impedance. The amp/processor is going to dissipate a lot of power, and the speakers are never going to operate at the quoted efficiency.

      "RMS". No, not Stallman. "Root Mean Squared". Peak power is a scam, and should not be used for buying sound equpiment.

  • Cat has my tongue (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Graspee_Leemoor ( 302316 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:47AM (#5249309) Homepage Journal
    I use my Yamaha AX6620 amp and Wharfedale diamond 8 5.1 setup with separate subwoofer for my PC's sound.

    Using a not-designed-for-pc sound system has its disadvantages, like the speakers are supposed to be shielded but aren't completely, but it's more than made up for by the sound quality.

    I used to use a creative 4.1 surround system for the pc, but it used to piss me off because it kept auto turning itself off at low sound levels and there was nowhere to plug headphones in (My main multimedia setup is separated by a thin wall from next door's bedroom so I use headphones after about 10pm).

    graspee

  • Windows Sound Driver? I don't really remember that, but I do remember Links (the Golf Game) and it's simulated the sounds through the pc speaker, I especially remember the random tweating of birds that sounded so grainy and annoying.

    So rather than 'beep beep beep' sounds (no not Ellen Fleiss related) it tried a more realistic sounding way (i.e. beeps that lasted milliseconds to make up the overall sound). It still sounded like crap though, until I got a Soundblaster 2.0 that is.

  • True power is 505 watts, not 1000 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Compact Dick ( 518888 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:51AM (#5249322) Homepage
    The correct poewr rating is 505 watts RMS [Root Mean Square], which is what the speakers can handle on a continuous basis.

    Don't be swayed that marketing term known as PMPO [Peak Music Power Output] - what the equipment in question can handle/deliver over a very short period of time, typically measured in milliseconds.

    • Re:True power is 505 watts, not 1000 (Score:4, Informative)

      by jo_ham ( 604554 ) <joham999@@@gmail...com> on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:22AM (#5249458)
      Whenever any company advertises speakers or amps with "xxx watts peak power!" on the box, move along, nothing worth buying here.

      You usualy find the RMS value in tiny, tiny lettering at the bottom somewhere.

      I makes me wonder if they design their systems to survive short spikes at very high power, just so they have a bigger number to advertise with to beat the competition.

      A good rule of thumb that I always work to is never drive an amp at more than 75% or so of its RMS output (same goes for speakers).
    • The correct poewr rating is 505 watts RMS [Root Mean Square], which is what the speakers can handle on a continuous basis.

      I agree with you that PMPO is misleading. But your assumption that those teensy little speakers powered by their teensy little power supply can put out 505 watts continuous is completely ludicrous. Maybe 5 watts.

      Your problem is that you took a completely fanciful peak power number and assumed it had anything to do with reality. Peak power ratings for a speaker have nothing to do with reality.

      • No, read the specs. Logitech specifies the speakers as having 505 W RMS cumulative. So yes, they can crank out 505 W continuously. Sound quality will be rubbish at that level, but they won't go up in smoke.

      • But your assumption that those teensy little speakers powered by their teensy little power supply can put out 505 watts continuous is completely ludicrous.

        I've heard each speaker is supplied with an itanium cpu, that would explain it.

    • Bah. 'RMS' doesn't give you any more information. It's like saying a car can go 100 MPH - is that up a hill? Off a cliff? With a trailer attached?

      You need at least three more items to make sense of the RMS rating:

      1. Frequency range (i.e., 20hz - 20khz) that the measurement was made at;
      2. Flatness of the frequency range - do they say '-10db at 20Hz'? If they roll off the bass response they can get more out of the amp before clipping.
      3. Some sort of distortion spec. Yes, it might be able to do '505', but is that listenable?

      Of course, even if the specs are good, it may still sound like bollocks...

    • i once witnessed a car audio contest where the winner of the raw output contest didn't use music. instead, he had a button on his dash that sent a single pulse to all his speakers simultaneously. dunno if it was a square wave or what... anyway, it pegged all the decibel meters.

  • DRM ? (Score:4, Funny)

    by BESTouff ( 531293 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:52AM (#5249324)
    Do they include DRM ? Will they block the 'copyrighted' sound entering their digital inputs unless I use a certified driver ?

    • Re:DRM ? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by racerx509 ( 204322 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:56AM (#5249673) Homepage
      Thats really funny, but its starting to become a problem. For owners of a Creative Sound Blaster Live! or Audigy system, the new DRM enabled drivers will actually mute the digital channel output upon playing certain DRM equipped files. That $600 digital decoder based 5.1 DD system is useless when you want to listen to a DRM encoded WMA song.

  • Nice but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by natron 2.0 ( 615149 ) <ndpeters79@g m a i l . c om> on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:52AM (#5249327) Homepage Journal
    For the price of most PC Surround sound speakers and cards you could buy a nice Surround Sound stereo system and run your PC audio through it, and it usually sounds alot better. I have seen it done mayof times and the sound quality is superb.

    • For the price of most PC Surround sound speakers and cards you could buy a nice Surround Sound stereo system and run your PC audio through it, and it usually sounds alot better.

      A "nice" two-channel system (CD player, integrated amp or receiver, speakers, cabling) probably starts at around $800 to $1000, depending on what your tastes are and what kind of music you listen to. If you want the same fidelity coming from 5 speakers, you're looking at probably 2.5 times the cost. A $500 surround sound system is good at generating noise, that's about it.

      I don't claim to be an audiophile, and I don't think you have to spend 5 figures to enjoy music, but you really do get what you pay for in audio, particularly at the lower-cost end of the hi-fi spectrum.

  • THX setup? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Malc ( 1751 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:56AM (#5249340)
    Let me see, my desk is against the wall, which puts me less than half a metre from the front three speakers. Unless I place the rear speakers in the way in the middle of the room behind me, I'm going to have put some major delay and volume adjustments in to the setup. 5.1 DD on a computer just sounds like a silly idea to me. 5.1 DD coming out of my XBox in the living room does work though ;)

    Oh, and as for that Windows speaker driver. It was a pain in the arse: the whole system would pause for playback of even the most simple sounds.

    • Re:THX setup? (Score:5, Informative)

      by delus10n0 ( 524126 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @11:41AM (#5250959)
      Just in case you didn't know, the rear speakers are supposed to be facing the _sides_ of the audience, not their backs. This is a common mistake that people make when placing a 5.1 system. When you do a 7.1 setup, the extra two speakers are the ones that get placed in the far rear. In a 5.1 setup, the rear speakers are to the side of the listener, and a little behind them.

  • 1000 Watts? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hcdejong ( 561314 ) <hobbes@@@xmsnet...nl> on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:56AM (#5249345)

    When will speaker manufacturers stop quoting meaningless figures?

    • You can't add power figures for separate speakers.
    • 'peak power' is equal to 'pick any number that takes your fancy'. It has no bearing on reality.
    • RMS power figures don't mean much, either. You need to specify the distortion that occurs at this power level.
    • power figures say nothing about how loud the system is. You need the speaker efficiency for that.
    • The power rating says nothing about sound quality, so it has no place as 'the most prominent feature' of a speaker set.

  • As a matter on interest (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:57AM (#5249352)
    Can any sound engineer types out there give a brief overview of the sound quality differentials between this standard of speaker with a good sound card and the sort of kit you can fork out a shed load of cash for at your local hifi dealer?.

    I know judgement of sound quality can be a very subjective thing but I am curious when I can get a PC sound system very reasonably but can (assuming I had the cash) pay thousands of dollars/euro in a store for hifi equipment. Is the price difference reflected in the sound quality ?

    For that matter how do I know my hearing is good enough to distinguish the difference ?

    • Re:As a matter on interest (Score:5, Informative)

      by hcdejong ( 561314 ) <hobbes@@@xmsnet...nl> on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:21AM (#5249450)

      1. Hifi speakers will have a flatter frequency response, meaning they won't overemphasize some frequencies at the cost of others. I predict the Logitech will sound boomy rather than full, and be rather tiring to listen to in the long run.

      2. Hifi speakers will sound more detailed. When you go from a bad system to a good one, you may notice new instruments in a song, things like that.

      3. Hifi speakers have a greater dynamic range. On the Logitech, I expect the subwoofer will start distorting at a sound level that's not insanely high, where Hifi speakers would just keep performing well.

    • Not an engineer, but try this.

      Adjust your soundcard so that its master volume is at maximum. Turn on your amp to a reasonable volume. Drag windows around, copy files, scroll text files etc. Hear that? That's what you don't get in an expensive dedicated system. And that's just interference, there's all sorts of distortions that happen in the electronics too that expensive equiptment tries to eradicate.

      Can you hear the difference? Well, the only way to tell is a side-by-side comparison. Sure you can't hear anything wrong with the current system, but when you hear a really good system next to it, you'll know. If you can't tell the difference then you need to take some antibiotics for your ear infec...nah, you'll be able to tell.

      Incidentally, when you've got this good system, connect it up to your PC and compare your 128kbit MP3s or whatever with CD. You'll appreciate the difference there too.

      • Adjust your soundcard so that its master volume is at maximum. Turn on your amp to a reasonable volume. Drag windows around, copy files, scroll text files etc. Hear that? That's what you don't get in an expensive dedicated system. And that's just interference, there's all sorts of distortions that happen in the electronics too that expensive equiptment tries to eradicate.

        Remove the analogue CD/out to CD/in cable. (or mute the CD/in channel). Much of that noise will now be gone. I suppose one could use a cable with more shielding, but the best solution is to use the digital output (spdif), though this technique is being rapidly replaced with digital audio extraction.

    • Re:As a matter on interest (Score:5, Informative)

      by hanwen ( 8589 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:22AM (#5249456) Homepage Journal
      the sort of kit you can fork out a shed load of cash for at your local hifi dealer

      Actually, I would not go to a local HiFi store for nice sound quality. HiFi speakers are designed to sound "nice" to your ears, by introducing various colorations that are not present in the original signal. If you want to have accurate sound reproduction, you should consider buying studio monitors. For example, genelecs [genelec.com], Tannoys [tannoy.com] or Spirits [soundcraft.com] (which is what I have). They are designed to reproduce sound neutrally. The advantage: your good CDs will sound nice and crisp. The disadvantage: you will notice that a lot of your previously good-sounding CDs are not recorded and/or mixed well, and sound like crap.

      For that matter how do I know my hearing is good enough to distinguish the difference ?

      Unless you regularly visit loud dancings or concerts, your ears will be good enough.

      • Ears need education (Score:3, Insightful)

        by CharlieO ( 572028 )
        I agree whole heartedly with the parent comment, with a couple of reservations.

        HiFi store for nice sound quality. HiFi speakers are designed to sound "nice" to your ears, by introducing various colorations that are not present in the original signal

        I disagree with the term 'colorations' - this suggests that various extra signals can be introduced by speakers. Generally this can only be true for processing components like the pre amp, pre amp or the DAC. Speakers only vary in thier response at a particular frequency.

        If you want to have accurate sound reproduction, you should consider buying studio monitors

        Well yes and no. Monitors are designed for as flat a frequency response as possible and therefore be as unforgiving as possible of the source signal. That in itself will not give you a 'nice' sound quality, it will only show you the colorations in the rest of the system.

        If you use Near Field Monitors than you are using speakers that are specifically designed to present the stereo image when right on top of them, whereas most HiFi speakers will only present an accurate image at a distance roughly equivalent to thier seperation.

        If you are using the speakers in a normal PC setup then you need Near Field Monitors such as those produced by the late TDL, or as you suggest the Spirits (Haven't checked your other recommendations, always myself found Tannoys a little bright)

        On a PC I doubt you really want a monitor grade sound reproduction system. They are designed to be totally unforgiving and highlight every single detail in the sound field. On a PC the hiss and pop of the 2 dollar DAC is going to be in your face, the distortions from MP3 compression, all that nasty clicking and buzzing becuase the sound card is unshielded and sitting in a fairly harsh RF environment.

        Besides 'clinical' sound quality is not the same as 'good' sound quality. A totally clinical reprodcution is very tiring to listen to beacuse the faults are so obvious it detracts from the stuff that is okay.

        For most people I would advise go and listen to the stuff you want to buy, NO HiFi component is perfect in its response so put together a chain of components that sound pleasing to your ear. If you listen for pleasure then your requirements are different from those running a home studio.

        The better and more transparent you make your system the less source material you will have to play on it. Its no surprise that the majority of CD's are mastered with compression and effects and a tonal balance to make them sound good on 100 dollar boom boxes because thats 95% of the market - on a good HiFi it will sound terrible, on a monitor grade system unlistenable. Its no coincidence that most HiFi enthusiasts end up listening to classical music and live concert albums, as these are the few that are general produced in a tonal flat manner.

        Put it this way - a soft focus photograph is generally a better portrait image to most people than a pin sharp unflattering photograph. The same goes with HiFi

        In terms of is your hearing good enough to hear the difference - well that depends.

        If your hearing is not damaged then it potentially is good enough, if its trained. Once you start listening to a quality system you may not notice right away the improvement, but go back to listening to the boom boxes and it will sound horrible and muddy. Then you will start to notice some of your albums sound more open, crisper, deeper, the sound more full,; yet others will remain closed in like sounds coming from in a bucket.

        You can tell by the emotive, non technical words I'm using that the subtleties of tonal reproduction bettween a good system and a great system are exactly that - subtle - and very personal. The only person that can tell is YOU.

        My rule of thumb is that for every zero you add the sound quality doubles. So a 100 'quid lifestyle hifi' sounds twice as good as a 10 quid radio. A 1000 quids worth of decent HiFi sounds twice as good. To get better you need to spend 10000 quid - and most people will stop with a system of a couple of grand because to get better costs so much more.

        In summary to the original question you can get much better kit for not much more than a PC speaker system from your local HiFi dealer - but its not worth spending a huge amount because the PC as a source is very low quality.
    • The only way to tell is to go listen. It's very important when buying hifi not to pay too much attention to the specs, but to go and listen to the thing. And you have to do comparative listening - so listen to all the different options in one sitting, because most things sounds decent with nothing to compare them to - that's when you suddenly hear the problems. When I bought my first set of decent speakers I actually ended up saving a few £s because the most expensive didn't sound as good to my ears, with the music I like, as the slightly cheaper ones (which had got worse reviews). Still, I'm pretty confident they sound a hell of a lot better than any computer speaker kit :)

  • Silly question.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @07:59AM (#5249359) Homepage Journal
    I'd like to ask a simple and possibly silly question:

    Why not just go to a normal stereo store, and buy a normal stereo?

    More PC speaker sets are designed to be small enough to not dominate your desk, as the idea is that your PC is not your primary music/movie station. This monster will require you to definitely change your layout for maximum effect.

    So if I am going to make my PC be my media hub, why not just buy a normal stereo system, and be done with it?

    Sure, a system like this might make sense if you are in a space limited environment like an apartment in a city, or a dorm.

    • Re:Silly question.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by racerx509 ( 204322 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:54AM (#5249661) Homepage
      Your right, this is a silly question.

      Why buy a PC as a media station when you can buy a stereo?

      My PC is my media station, because i live in a dorm room where space is at a premium. Surround sounds setups don't crowd the desk either, because most speakers for these systems are either mean to be wall or floor mounted. THe only thing taking up space on your desk is the decoder box and possibly the center channel. Also, in my case, the monitor is clearly larger than my TV. I prefer a crappy 19" over 13" any day. Also, how many Stero systems do you know of that will play MP3s, OGGs, WMF, DiVx in any flavor, and quicktimes? Not only that, but with Vivo you can hook up your game systems and have everything integrated.

      In terms of versatility, there is no "true" stereo setup that can match a PC right now. It may not be pretty, and it has its fair share of PC quirks, but when space is a premium and you want semi-cheap versatility, give me a good PC with a nice sound and video setup anyday.
      • You missed my point - my point was that instead of buying this expensive system and hooking it up to your PC, why not buy a standard stereo system and hook it up to your PC.

        For the money, you could buy a far better normal stereo system than you could buy this system.

  • PC Speaker driver + audio rant (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jakedata ( 585566 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:06AM (#5249384)
    The PC speaker driver used pulse-width modulation to simulate audio waveforms. That is why it sounded so crunchy. It also CRUSHED your system while it was playing a sound because (I think) it was toggling an interrupt for each pulse. Did you notice how everything else stopped during playback?

    Somebody rolled the driver out to about 10 Win NT 4 boxen at my old office as an "upgrade". When we upgraded to Win 2000, the driver remained in place, and still worked. Gack.

    Now for the rant.

    Nothing exposes how poor MP3 (or even CDs) sound like owning a real quality pair of speakers connected to a clean amp. I have a Nakamichi AV-10 driving B&W DM-603 speakers. I connect the Nakamichi to the digital output of my Turtle Beach Montego soundcard, and it works well enough. Unfortunately, the fidelity of the system makes MP3 files almost unbearable for serious listening.

    So do yourselves a favor. If you listen to MP3, buy crappy PC speakers and let your imagination fill in the gaps.
  • Awsome (Logitech) 3 speaker system for $36 (newegg). Search for internet reviews, they're quite a bargain.
  • Why do these speakers sound like early '80's processors?
    • the Z-80 is still in production and used heavily to this day.

      same as the 6809 and 6811 processors.

      you don't stop using a good processor because it's old.

  • Speakers? Pah! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DarklordJonnyDigital ( 522978 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:15AM (#5249427) Homepage Journal
    At the risk of being downvoted, I don't like speakers at all. Headphones are the way to go. Not those awful one-dollar piezoelectric crystal [everything2.com] widgets that go into your ears and break after a week because the wire was too thin. I'm talking about those massive black headphones that totally cover your ears, muffle external sound and sound better than most cheesy OEM speakers. Good for hearing the direction of your opponents' footsteps in Counterstrike, too. I remember first trying a set of these headphones out on the glass-house demolition test map of Red Faction... mmm...

    • Re:Speakers? Pah! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Bobman1235 ( 191138 )
      At the risk of being downvoted, I don't like speakers at all. Headphones are the way to go.


      Ya, if you don't mind your ears having permanent damage way too early in life. It has been well-proven that having an audio source directly shot into your ear at close range for any extended period of time is far more damaging than a roomfull of speakers at an equal decibel range. Much more strain on your ears. It's recommended you never listen to headphones at any volume for more than an hour at a time. If I ever had to shut off my music every hour I think I'd kill someone. Stick to a good set of speakers, you might actually be able to hear when you're old.

      • Re:Speakers? Pah! (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Chris Pimlott ( 16212 )
        Stop and think. Why do you need to listen to headphones at the same decibel range when they are a centimeter from your ear? And if you have good headphones, the clarity and detail will let you listen to your music at a *quieter* level and still hear more nuances than you could with your speaker system.

  • That's enough power for a small stadium (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:16AM (#5249428)
    I haven't seen the system that is the subject of this article, but I did see another amplified speaker system (of another brand) in a store recently with a package proudly proclaiming that it was an X watt system (where X=some number much larger than my stereo receiver, which is quite capable of earsplitting volume at low distortion).

    Initially, I noted that there was no distortion rating *at that power* for the speaker system. Thus, you might be listening to a frequency-modulated square wave if you had it turned up to X watts.

    Then, I noticed that the power rating was for peak power, which presumably measures the instantaneous power at the peak of a sine wave test signal. That isn't the actual power being output by the speaker on average, however. Instead, it's like saying that your 60 watt light bulb produces 120 watts peak lighting power. And even then, peak power ratings might only be generated instantaneously until capacitors in the power supply are drained.

    Next, I noted that the 12 volt wall-wart transformer power supply had a rating of X-Y watts, where X-Y was substantially less than X, or even X/2. I couldn't tell whether there was any rechargable battery inside the amplifier, but it looked as though there wasn't. But the wires coming out of the 12 volt power supply to the speaker in which the amplifier appeared to be housed were thin wires that certainly didn't look like they were rated for X/12 or even (X/2)/12 amperes. (Remember power = voltage x current, so an amplifier producing, say, 240 watts out of 12 volts needs wires that can carry 20 amperes. The thickness of wires has to increase with increased amperage rather than voltage, and 20-ampere wire, for safety reasons, generally has to be thicker than those on the electric cords used for standard appliances.) So unless the speaker system worked on cold fusion energy, I couldn't understand how it was going to produce any sustainable power at the level listed on the box.

    As I said, I don't know about and have not seen the speaker system described in this Slashdot article. I didn't even know that Logitech made speaker systems. I do know that they make a very nice computer mouse.

    But I would be interested in seeing an honest, independent review of the power output claims made of their system, which would seem to be sufficient to power an amplifier system for a small stadium.

    In the meantime, I found an article that may be of interest to readers. It debunks some of the power claims being made by some mass-market "hi-fi" system manufacturers, and compares them to the delusional claims made in the '70's for such systems:

    http://sound.westhost.com/power.htm
  • I tried these things at Best Buy / CC a while ago. Not the 5.1 but the 4.1 variant. I was certainly not impressed.

    I ended up walking away with the Klipsch THX 5.1 package, this thing ROCKS. Best speakers I've ever heard - for computing at least. Granted, I'm no audiophile.

    My only complaint would be some flatness near the very low end - but my wife doesn't appreciate me shaking the house anyway. :)

    Naturally, the volume controller has a headphone mic that cuts out the normal speakers. I really wish it had a mic. jack on it too, that would be perfect for voice-command games (like CS).
  • for SINGLE driver speakers.

    I don't care who says they sound great. Single driver satellites can not make the frequency response of a good woofer and tweeter.

    I'll keep my Klipsch speakers.
    • Over a year ago, I paid around £100 ($150ish, I guess) for a set of Videologic DigiTheatre LC [videologic.com] speakers (The LC variant doesn't come with a dolby decoder, which is not a problem since I already have an AC-3 / DTS decoder). The front 3 speakers have two drivers (sound quality of the rear speakers is less important, since your ear is less sensitive to sound from behind you). Theses speakers produce very nice quality sound (subjectively). They are only rated at about 62.5W RMS, but at maximum volume they don't distort, and you really don't miss (other than ear damage) that you would get from more powerful speakers. Did I mention that over a year ago these cost less than half of what the Logitech set cost now? Let's have some perspective here...
  • But is the remote infrared or RF, and if the former, is there a receiver that can be mounted on your desk ? Because I sure as hell can't stand pointing my remote under my desk.
    And is there a headphone jack that extends to the desktop ?

    For my money, the best thing I've seen was the external box on the Creative Audigy Ex. All the ports you need, right on your desk, with a wireless remote. Wish the Audigy2 had the Ex model when I bought mine. Of course, it matters less now that I've sworn off gaming, but that's another story.

  • D'oh! (Score:2)

    by olman ( 127310 )
    Just think for a second, why do you want to pay for the Dolby digital or even Pro Logic decoding? Are you going to watch movies on your 19 inch tube or something? Don't you have a TV for that?

    For serious gaming performance, you can grab any half-decent amplifier with 5.1 input plus 4 satellites. That gives you nice surround sound for EAX games. Plus the sound quality wipes the floor with these "multimedia THX" systems. Add woofer if necessary.

  • Don't be fooled... (Score:5, Informative)

    by nmg196 ( 184961 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:43AM (#5249597)
    Don't be fooled by the supposedly massive power output of this system. I've heard such systems many times, and pumping that much power (probably 1000W PMPO ~= 500W RMS?) into tiny plastic housed speakers really sounds quite crap.

    I've got VASTLY better sound by connecting the audio output (headphone socket) from my old Soundblaster AWE 32 (ISA) straight to some Mission bookshelf speakers using a custom cable (3.5mm stereo jack to twin speaker cable!). That sounds card had a reasonable 12W RMS power amp on board that most new sound cards don't have (only line out or 4W headphone). I was surprised at how good this set up actually sounded. It lacked in the old bass department if you turned the sound the right up, but it was fine for normal listening levels or watching films.

    A cheap (and VERY old Yamaha amp from eBay) made this set up even better (and provided me with a tuner!). All this for much less money and WAY more sound quality.

    If you don't believe me, try it yourself. Get a really cheap old amp, and use your real hi-fi speakers - I can guarantee it will sound better than any plastic computer speakers ever will.

    You don't need 5 channels - this just makes music sound crap and is just a gimmick for gamers. It's far better to get a decent stereo set up working first and if you really want 5 channel audio - then an old dolby digital amp off e-bay will definitely sound better than a package like this Logitech system.

    The "1000W" figure is a complete joke! My £1000(GBP = $1500USD) NAD system is only 65W per channel and sounds stunningly good even using bookshelf speakers. Never EVER be tempted to equate output power to sound quality (especically if the power is measured PMPO rather than RMS) and never underestimate how bad small speakers sound compared to larger ones. Two tiny (10cm drivers) speakers + subwoofer does not in any way equate to the quality obtained by two half decent mid-sized bookshelf hi-fi speakers.

    Nick...

  • it's pure junk (Score:4, Informative)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @08:57AM (#5249676) Homepage
    Just like everything else that has the words "computer" on it related to audio.

    If you want really good computer speakers to listen to music on or as a good audio refrence... go to your local guitar center and buy a set of studio monitors and a studio amp... they're over in the mixer section...

    For the same amount of cash as these overpriced and horribly overrated junk you can get something real.

    I found the most entertaining the 1000 watt rating.. Yeah right. in low-end car audio ratings... I have a Crown stereo amp here that is only 25 watts and cost $400.00 and will kick the crap out of anyone's home stereo that cost around $400.00

    a watt rating is 100% useless... tell me the watt rating RMS at a distortion level. anything higher than 0.05% THD is junk.
  • Wannabe audiophile here. I'd like to use my PC as a center piece (if not the center piece) of my home audio system. That means, in descending order of importance, DVDs, home studio/music production, CDs, mp3s, and games.

    Now, I know the moment I put 'music production' in there it opens up a whole can of worms. When I do serious music production I go to a studio, but I like to dink around on my home system so I don't spend any more time (and $) in a studio than I have to. Also, as I have just a nice-action MIDI controller and no piano (Fatar SL-990), I practice on it as well.

    Right now I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum with old Creative 4.1 surround speakers. The speakers were nice a few years ago as computer speakers, but in a few months I'd like to invest in something more suited to what I use all this stuff for. Given the plethora of outputs on the Audigy, I'm happy to pick up any kind of stereo receiver and/or speakers, but I know very little about stereo receivers or speakers.

    Is it a lost cause to try and use your PC as a general purpose sound system in this way? Like, should I just stick with the computer speakers for computery stuff and get real speakers for music production & CDs? That's a bit cumbersome and ugly in terms of wires going everywhere. :/

    Thanks very much!
    Aquitaine
    • I'm using my system as the center of my home theater, and really like it. If you don't mind spending a good chunk of cash get yourself some Genelec active monitors. You have to find a reciever with balanced pre-amp outputs, I think Dennon makes one. The setup will cost a pretty penny, I think the Genelecs are about $1000 a pair, but you will be rewarded with a very nice system if you do that. It would also be nice for your occasional production work.
      I'm running a much lower-end system some Paradigm bookshelf units and a sub are plenty for my DVD and music needs. I have a decent Technics amp, mostly because it has plenty of digital inputs. I think that is by far the best way to use your PC, get the digital stream out of the relativly noisy PC case. You might want to look into some of the silent PCs out there, because all those fans can get loud.

  • Plenty of people have pointed out that 1000W PMPO is irrelevant, but I will tell you that the total of 505W RMS doesn't mean that much either - at least without other information.

    What I want to know is: how many decibels @ 1W, 1m? I have a pair of speakers which are 200W each, and I bet they're louder! There's also the harmonic dirstortion - will the system start flattening out sine waves when it gets near the maximum output level?

    Here's another thing: the quoted range for the system is 35Hz - 20kHz, but they don't specify the frequency deviation. If it's more than +/- 3dB, then it's going to start sounding uneven.

    Someone asked about the difference between good speakers and bad ones. Here's a couple:

    • more volume per Watt (cheap speakers are not so efficient)
    • flatter frequency curve
    • frequency curve doesn't change with volume

    That last one is something I really appreciate with my speakers. Try this: turn your speakers up to a good volume, good pumping bass etc. Then turn them right down - can you still hear the bass? On cheapers systems that'll disappear quicker than the higher frequencies. Good speakers will "kick" without being intrusive.

    -- Steve

  • Okay, I won't continue the RMS/Peak power output statement that are already all over this thread, but here's another thing that occurred to me:

    Right now my 2 speaker audiophile system (first real expensive thing I bought out of college) is hooked into the onboard soundcard playing my mp3 collection on 'random'. Some of those songs were 'aquired'. Some of them are 128 kbps and above, a bunch aren't.

    While I'm coding and the parrot is singing along, and the system is playing a 96 kbps mp3, I don't really notice the incredible sound response from my setup. :)
  • Don't get duped!
    The specs say 505 watts total power.
    The specs say an input impedance of 10,000 ohms and this means the power amplifier is built in.
    A built in power amplifier also means that there is an internal power supply which has, at best, 85% efficiency, requiring 594 watts from the wall plug.

    Now look at the power rating on the unit, and you can bet it has a rating less than 500 watts.

    Since most of the public (and probably most engineers)don't understand the ratings,we find manufacturers providing deceptive advertising.

    More power SELLS better!
    Back in the 60's and early 70's the audio industry went through RMS power, Peak Power, Music Power, Instantaneous Peak Music Power, and perhaps one or two other meaningless terms. Why? Because RMS power doesn't describe the instaneous power needed for speakers to reproduce the sound of a sudden drumbeat or crashing cymbol without distortion and that requires a very large power for amout 1/4 second. Large power ratings impress the ignorant and opens up more wallets.

    Then there is the frequency response of -3db (half power, +/- 3db, and -10db. Never mind that the power level is so low that you can't hear the bass or highest frequencies.

    Next there's the distortion figure at each power level. If your car tag rattles with the bass sounds you probably don't care, but if you want to hear the brush on the drum, 3% distortion will bother you. More power generally means more distortion.

    When the engineers and audophiles finally started asking questions and publishing reports about the misleading specs, they finally stopped. Now, with a new generation of listeners, they are back.

    Moral: Pay attention to the specs. and listen to the speakers. There's more to audio than just sound.
  • does it go up to 11 ?
  • if they have finally fixed the subwoofer amplifier? In the old 'premium' model the sub had a tendency to blow up very quickly if the speakers were used at mid+ volumes on bass-heavy songs.

    There's a msg board where some people were on their 3rd or even 4th set of speakers, which is really ridiculous...

  • Do NOT buy "computer speakers" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by burris ( 122191 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @11:26AM (#5250828)
    If you want good sound, you want to get some professional "nearfield monitors." These are designed to be used with computers and sound excellent. Go to your local pro audio store, they will have many models ranging from a few hundred bucks for passive ones to many thousands of dollars for very powerful ones with active crossovers. Good brands include Genelec, Tannoy, Hafler, and even Mackie.

    It is very highly recommended that you get ones with digital inputs or get a seperate digital>analog converter. At that point the weakness will be your room. You can build "Helmholtz Resistors" (boxes with a specific volume of confined air) to absorb bass frequencies centered around your major room mode.

    burris

  • OT: Apple speakers are falling behind (Score:3, Funny)

    by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Friday February 07, 2003 @11:56AM (#5251127)
    Apologies upfront - Okay, I've got a little bone to pick. I know its OT, but it's relevant.(and its a slashvertisement anyways.)

    Apple has fallen drastically behind in the speaker-wattage department.

    It's a real issue. This Logitech speaker system is capable of 1000 watts. 1000! Thats a gigawatt! Meanwhile, my pathetic Apple SoundSticks [harman-multimedia.com] - which they still sell on the AppleStore, are capable of a mere 65 watts.

    Absolutely brutal. Never mind the quality, or the aesthetics... it is plainly obvious to myself (and indeed, everyone here) that the higher number of watts clearly indicates complete superiority in my listening productivity. It is folly to argue otherwise; I mena, there is the number. 1000 watts vs. 65.

    Apple better damn well come up with some 1500 watt speakers in the next 10 seconds otherwise I'm going to go buy some JBL gear and really maximize my hearing of music.

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