Apple Gives Laptops Speed Bumps 766
sockit2me9000 writes "Apple released their new PowerBook today. They include faster processors across the board (up to 1GHz), Radeon 9000 GPUs, and the top-of-the-line model will include a slot-loading SuperDrive. Price points remain about the same. New iBook was released as well."
It's expensive, but .... (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, no PC-based laptop can compete. Size, battery life, specs other than CPU speed....style
Now, if they'd put a serial port on the back, it comes with a UNIX-based doesn't it?!
Maybe a USB-serial converter would work. Can you say console access?
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:2)
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:3, Insightful)
While I agree with the first half, it still wasn't a "good time to be a mac user". You see, when they were beating the PII clock for clock, the G3 that Apple sold was ~1/2 the clock for the same price as a PII. So you were paying more for half the clock, but slightly better performance/clock. In the long run, you still paid more. When the PII 450MHz came out, the fastest G3 was ~300MHz.
Then Apple started publishing all these Photoshop benchmarks to alter the results. Even though the PII at 450MHz beat the G3 at 300MHz in almost everything, Apple started publishing benchmarks with a Dell v. Apple where a 450MHz dell with IDE and 128MB ram lost to a G3 with 256MB ram and SCSI hard drives where the G3 won only photoshop benchmarks, and only the ones that were memory or disk intensive. So apple proudly published these 2 DISK and RAM benchmarks, and concluded "yep, the G3 is faster" then went on a publishing spree for these results... all this while the G3 computer they were showing costed about 2x as much as the Dell in the benchmark.
Hope this gives people the rest of the truth.
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not sure if it's supported in OS X, but it is in linux...
And I'm sure there's a serial/usb converter that works, even if it's din-8 (as Apples were)..
BTW, anyone try consoling into a modern SPARC with USB ports, or are they only for peripherals?
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:5, Informative)
They aren't so underpowered... (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't fall into the Mhz myth, the clock speeds on these things are lower, but they get more work done in a clock cycle too.
That said, they're still a little slower in terms of work done per second than the fastest Intel has, just not nearly as much so as you may think looking at the clock speeds. But it doesn't really matter all that much. CPU speed is just one factor of overall performance, and with a good design it doesn't need to be nearly as fast as it would on a poorer design. The design on the Macs really is much better, the bottlenecks aren't as bad, and they have plenty of power where it counts. Think of it as finesse vs. brawn in comparison with your typical Intel/AMD system, where the surfeit of CPU speed is used to overcome a basically less efficient design. Consider that probably over 90% of the computation done on a pc these days is concentrated in the graphics rendering, and the look at how much more efficiently the mac handles that - all the way from a GPU which is faster than the CPU to the Altivec system in the CPU, which beats the hell out of MMX/SSE and all that.
I'm typing this on a TiBook now, a 666 Mhz G4, and believe me, when I put it up against a new Intel based notebook it won't take the speed crown, by any means, but it's close enough that I don't really care. It will outperform Intel notebooks with over twice the clockspeed quite handily on most tasks, and when you look at things like the screen and the cd-rw/dvd drive... Apple was overpriced once but it's changed. You'd be very hard pressed to find an intel notebook with the same features in the same weight-class much cheaper. And OS X beats WinXP in nearly every category for my money. Easier to use, prettier, AND more powerful under the good as well... tcsh or bash beats cmd.exe any day.
Re:They aren't so underpowered... (Score:3, Interesting)
But I have on my desk a Mac G4/733 and next to it a Dell with a P3-933 in it. Dell has a Matrox G400 and the Mac has a Geforce 2 MX in it. Both have 40 gig hdd's and both have 256 megs of ram. Mac is running OS9 and 10.1.5, and the PC is running Windows 2000.
I can honestly say that the PC in equivelent applications (like Photoshop 7 on Mac or Photoshop 7 on PC, or Acrobat 5.0.5 on PC or Acrobat 5.0.5 on Mac) that my Dell is easily 25-40% quicker on most complex operations in OS 9 or OS X.
Not that the mac is any slouch - its still very fast, but I've found my cheaper PC is still quicker. A lot of people I talk to use Mac's (OS9 mainly), not because its faster but because it has more apps to do things like colour proofing and other pre-flight tests printers use to offset printing.
I won't argue which UI looks prettier, probably Mac OS X by far, but its not perfect - its got a lot of annoying issues. Like go into proxy config and enter a address and a port - whoa - notice something - in 10.1.x it won't let you type in the port until you hit lock type in the password, hit unlock type in the password again - then you can type in a port... Or type "man tar" from the command line - how the heck do you navigate around the man page?
Re:They aren't so underpowered... (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, it's probably subjective but I've seen the opposite in many instances. From what I've seen a single processor G4 Mac is approximately equal to a 50% faster P4 Windows machine, for most common tasks. This can vary with certain activities but overall it seems to be true. So a 1 gHx G4 seems to perform similarly to a 1.5 gHz P4.
I've never seen or heard of this issue before. Do you have a root account set up? Are you set up as an administrator? Maybe something is misconfigured somewhere, try the Apple Discussion boards [apple.com] to see if anyone else has had the same problem.
The default pager for the "man" program is a program called "more". To find out how to navigate using the "more" command, type "man more" into the terminal (don't use any quotes) and hit enter. Basically you hit the space bar when you are done reading a page and it will advance to the next page. MacOS X 10.2 has an updated set of terminal utilities, with a "more" program that allows you to move forward and backward within a file by hitting "f" to move forward 1 screen or "b" to go back 1 screen.
Re: Any objective benchmarks? (Score:3, Insightful)
Bottom line, you have to decide for yourself. If you know someone with a Mac, ask 'em if you can play around for an hour, or go hang out at CompUSA or an Apple store and bug the folks there for an hour.
I'm biased, I converted from PC after years of using Windows and a brief and generally positive flirtation with Linux (Rehat's 6.2 thru 7-ish). I have a dual-gig G4 tower and I NEVER notice a speed problem, my daughter has a 600Mhz G3 iMac and it's slowish - BUT, what are you going to use it for?
I know a developer here where I work who works all day on an older G4 Powerbook laptop - he loves it. I myself use my Mac for coding in Java and it's awsome, I love the fact that I can run just about any Java-related open source project I want. That being said, I'm sure there are uses where the Mac won't be the best choice, and there is the issue of making sure all your favorite software has a Mac version, and re-buying if you use commercial apps.
If I had the spare cash, I'd be buying that new 1Ghz Poerbook right now!
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:4, Informative)
lol
come on now, that's just silly and you know it. the length of pipeline does not a processor make (or some stupid thing like that)
IMHO I am the sexiest man alive. But, in reality, it seems that most (all?) women don't agree.
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:2, Informative)
because that would be impossible?
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:5, Funny)
and then fly around on your anti-grav jetbike.
Re:It's expensive, but .... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) When it comes to comparing features on laptops, for equivilently equipped laptops mac's are highly competative. Do some research, go price out laptops with the type of features that you get on the macs. Espesialy the iBooks, there is almost nothing in the PC market that comes close.
2) Battery life. Apple says 5 hours, and like every laptop battery life, that's projected. But I can tell you that my iBook always gets 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 hours of battery life, depending on what I'm doing. The G4s that are there have the capability to play through (and I've seen this done) roughly 1 and a half 2 hour DVD movies. No PC comes close. The best powered PC laptop I've seen in that price range gets 2 1/2 to 3 hours of battery.
3) Wieght. Unless you buy an ultralight laptop (www.dynamism.com) the macs win hands down.
4) Screen, just put a PC and a mac laptop side by side, and unless the PC is a sony, chances are you will like the mac screen better. And since the screen is by far one of the most expesnive components of a laptop, it's no suprise that the mac will cost a bit more.
5) I see nothing unprofessional looking about the mac laptops at all. Yes the colored ones of yester year were odd, but the new ones look just fine.
6) Fine you have a serial port, I don't need one
7) Power. Raw CPU power does not nessesarily make a good laptop. I don't want a multi Ghz laptop yet, the heat, and the battery hit would be astronomical. 1 ghz more than covers what I would need out of a laptop.
8) Maybe one day your OS will run on PPC, then we can really compare Apples to Apples. Then again, no one would buy it.
Shipping times: (Score:4, Informative)
Powerbook 1GHz (w/o Superdrive): 5-7 days.
Powerbook 1GHz (w/ Superdrive): 3-4 weeks.
Re:Shipping times: (Score:2)
Battery life?!? (Score:5, Funny)
I can almost see Apple employees doing the voodoo rituals over the new powerbooks and ibooks now...
Nice and cheap (Score:4, Insightful)
My sincere congratulations to Apple for having swung around from being a stubborn, expensive brand to become a computer supplier that I like. I will concider an Apple next time I buy a computer!
Re:Nice and cheap (Score:3, Informative)
Also Mac's do have a longer life then most other computers Iv worked w/
I once read a quote that said a mac has a useful life of 8-10 years, at that I laughed my head off, until I realized I wuz reading it on my PPC from 95(only thing that's gone out in that time is the monitor...)
Re:Proof that its still not good enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Radical or not, I, like most people, have to wait until I have the money to actually buy it in order to, well, buy it. I'm going to shoot for the entry iBook the next time I buy a computer because that's when I'll have the money to do it.
Besides, what moron goes out and gets a new computer when their current one works just fine? I have a PowerMac G4/450 that's over three years old and it runs 10.2 at a more than acceptable speed ("damn fast") and is no where near needing an upgrade. I'm only getting the iBook because I need an iBook. There are those people that buy things for the sake of having them and then there are those that buy when there is a need. Obviously the previous poster does not need a new computer now. The fact that he is waiting is not a statement on Apple's ability to market or make a product but a statement on the efficiency of the poster with regard to his possessions and money.
Hmm, a mature attitude towards something on Slashdot. Anyone else feel that cold draft come out of the cracks of Hell?
Re:Considering switching to iBook (Score:5, Interesting)
I made my iBook my main home machine about 3 months ago and it was relatively painless. Getting used to not pressing Ctrl was the hardest task.
Without knowing exactly what you do, the best answer is 'it depends'. Your main expense may well be replacing software that you have used on the PC - which could work out VERY expensive. If you have a lot of PC software you might want to think about getting a Windows emulator to help you continue working as you replace software with Mac applications.
Microsoft are offering good deals on Office X right now which eases the pain of buying what for many of us is an essential product.
Remember, OSX has a very nice little mail program thrown in for standard, AppleWorks is a perfectly competent office application if you don't need all the features of Office and naturally you have a browser included. There is a DVD player, the very lovely iTunes, iPhoto, iCal and iChat and a CD burner. For many people this will be all the productivity software they ever need. (Assuming that you consider that DVD player to constitute 'productivity' :) )
Best wishes,
Mike.
Speed Bumps? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Speed Bumps? (Score:3, Funny)
No, but the new "windtunnel" PowerMacs have speed holes [apple.com]. They make the mac go faster.
ibook (Score:3, Funny)
PowerBook G4 & iBook (Score:4, Informative)
Must be a first (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Must be a first (Score:5, Informative)
"speed bumps"? (Score:3, Informative)
Mayhaps you were looking for "speed boost" or "speed increase"?
Re:"speed bumps"? (Score:4, Informative)
where I live, speed bumps are used to slow people down.
Heh. Although the term seems incongruous, it's shorthand for "bumps up the speed."
iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:5, Funny)
This is pretty cool, especially for the TiBook. I'm sure video houses will appreciate the superdive to let them make rough cuts on the road and share them.
Now, sadly, my TiBook is no longer state-of-the-art. I can tell its feelings were hurt: this morning it ask me if it looked fat.
Re:iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:2)
-Other companies do it too...you can buy a Dell with a celeron as opposed to a speedy P4
-I can personally attest to, after using a G3 iBook, wanting something faster. Anybody that buys an apple these days has a pretty good chance of getting hooked for good, and right now I'm eyeing that new PowerBook just because my iBook seems a bit slow
oh, and i want to bust Quake 3 out on it at QuakeCon 2003 =]
Re:iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:3, Funny)
oh you poor, poor bastard. I hope you didn't hesitate in answering...
Re:iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:5, Informative)
IBM did a *really* nice job designing the 750fx CPU. Back in May/June (when Apple introduced it in the iBook) one of the Apple hardware sites did some G3(750fx) vs. G4(Moto) comparison benchmarks. Bottom line: for anything that wasn't written to use AltiVec, the IBM G3 was just as fast as the Moto G4 (at same MHz).
Weak video systems really slowed older iBooks down in (eye-candy-full) OSX. It's far less a problem in the new iBooks.
Understand what you'll be using it for and do your homework BEFORE spending the $$$ to get a G4.
Re:iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:iBook still stuck at G3 (Score:3, Informative)
still not cheap enough (Score:2, Funny)
Just glancing at the Apple web page, I can see that their most "affordable" lap-top is anything but. I could understand them doing this if they already had a large market share--there is value in "luxury" brands--but with MAC sales so low, it seems like a bad idea. As a result, the average consumer won't even consider the Ibook. For example, look at me. I was laid off when the Dot.Com bubble burst, and now work doing manual labor down at the docks. I'm in hock up to my loogies, and have enough trouble just keeping my wife and five children sheltered, shorn, and clod each month. There's no way I could afford one of these things, and neither could most people in my position. The lower classes need something affordable, dependable, and proven, and for this reason we will continue to stick with PC manufacturers such as GateWay 2000 and DELL. I hope Apple figures this out soon.
Re:still not cheap enough (Score:2, Insightful)
Looks Cheap to Me (Score:2, Informative)
Or is 100 dollars that much an issue?
If nothing else, Apple is improving hteir price points gradually.
Re:still not cheap enough (Score:2)
personally, I would pay the extra $100 to get the iBook simply for OS X 10.2 and/or for the kickass look of ibooks
trust me, these things get looks from people when you walk into a lab here on campus, open it up and it's immediately ready, then close it down, drop it in your bag and split for lunch
Myth of the "Working Class" (Score:5, Insightful)
Excuse me, the reason I can afford a Mac is that I work therefore that makes me in the "working class". What you are talking about is that "Slashdot Class" -- a group of people that think its a sin to pay for anything. Which makes the best notebook for you the one found in the dumpster behind a fortune 500 company. Instead of using the Windows 2000 Pro install already on it, you fdisk the harddrive and install Gentoo Linux so you can show it off at your next meeting of the 2600 club complete with Anarchy and Calvin peeing on the Windows logo stickers.
For the rest of us in the "working class", Apple has produced some awesome notebooks at a reasonable fee. Where is the PC Notebook that burns DVDs? What Linux distro supports that?
Re:still not cheap enough (Score:3, Informative)
(Gateway dropped the "2000" bit three years ago.)
The lowest priced iBook is $999. Dell's lowest priced model is $899, and Gateway's lowest priced model is $999. They've hardly got Apple beat on the "value laptop" end.
And, like a different poster said... if you're sturggling along doing dock work, what do you need a shiney new laptop for?
Re:Apple's not the problem! (Score:3, Funny)
128MB? (Score:5, Interesting)
How far can you really get with OS X and the 128MB these Powerbooks ship with? OS X is great, but the prevailing opinion is that it's more memory hungry than Windows. (It's quite possible that this is a myth. Reviewers love to say dumb things like "I highly recommend that you upgrade to 512MB if you plan on doing more than simple word processing.")
I'll add, of course, that 128MB uses less power than 256MB, which is important for laptops.
Re:128MB? (Score:3, Interesting)
Mac OS X's specifications recommend a minimum of 128MB. If you are going to use Classic, that is too small--OS X thrashes as it has to swap a lot.
RAM is currently quite cheap, and since cracking an iBook or PowerBook open can be a little daunting (and warranty-voiding if done wrong), I recommend having at least 384MB for Jaguar. 512MB+ is optimum.
Re:128MB? (Score:5, Informative)
You haven't done it, have you? Easy as pie. Pop off the keyboard. On the TiBook, you will see the 2 slots. On the iBook, you need to remove the Airport card (if installed), and 2 small screws to remove the cover over the memory slot. Even if you don't know what you are doing, it doesn't take more than 10 minutes.
In fact, I think there is a diagram on the bottom of the keyboard to help you. There are definitely directions in the owners manual.
Re:Nice (Score:3, Informative)
The PowerBooks are pretty easy to work on. I've upgraded the Harddrive, memory, and recently even swapped the g3/400 processor card for a g4/500 card in my Bronze Powerbook. The processor upgrade took 15 minutes which included the time required to watch the quicktime video that stepped through the process..
Re:128MB? (Score:5, Interesting)
The good news is that 512MB chips for the iBook are now available for $80-100, so you can max out the memory (640MB) for a reasonable price. Apple memory is still expensive though.
Re:128MB? (Score:5, Informative)
battery life (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:battery life (Score:2, Informative)
Re:battery life (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. Also, if you download something like DVDBackup [wormintheapple.gr] and use it to copy the DVD to your hard drive before your trip, the Apple DVD player can play it from there, which will probably consume less power than spinning the DVD drive would.
Slashdot Apple's bitch? (Score:2, Troll)
Anyone ever noticed how much mundane Apple news gets posted on Slashdot? A minor speed increase on laptops doesn't seem to warrant a full story.
And, if you look in the categories for stories, there are tons of Apple specific categories for no real reason:
Apple Wireless
Apple Hardware
Apple Software
Apple Desktops
iMac
Apple Media
Apple Networking
OS 9
OS X
Apple Utilities
Look, we're in the "Apple Laptop" category for the love of god, what is the deal?
Time's are a-changin' (Score:5, Insightful)
Excluding my grandma who is sysadmin in a linux-only rendering farm (that's a joke), Apple is the only option consumers have to WinTel. Apple's tenacity, inventiveness, and rich *nixy-goodness is why Apple is the darling of the computing world these days, even at 6% market share.
I'm not trolling, but I'm guessing you've not yet used a recent (4 years) machine made by Apple. (My apologies if I've put my foot in my ignormaus. Apple is becoming a favorite among newly converted geeks because they produce good stuff and because they're finally starting to get it: *nix, Photoshop, Apache, SSH, MS Office. Apple's laptops have no WinTel equivalent. The interaction between the command line and Aqua is something at which to gawk.
On a less preach-to-the-choir note, is it so different than announcments for minor revisions of relatively arcane (if beloved) open source software? Not that I'm saying such posts are bad, but that it might be the nature of the Slashdot beast.
Re:Slashdot Apple's bitch? (Score:4, Insightful)
but
this is a unix-focused site to some extent. And
Apple ships more unix than any other manufacturer.
So it stands to reason that we'd talk about them
here.
Still missing... (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess nothing is perfect.
Don't forget the iBook in all of this... (Score:5, Insightful)
A somewhat nicer model with the 800mhz G3, a DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and the same 640mb of RAM lists for $1489. That gets you a very potent UN*X box with a lot of wonderful features, a lovely OS, and a massively high portability level.
All this, and an amazing attention to detail as well. Really, switching to Apple is like moving from Chevy to BMW. Sure it may not stack up on paper (horsepower per dollar, etc) but you can end up with an incredibly friendly machine that's a pure pleasure to use! Do yourself a favor and go check 'em out if you've been on the fence.
Buying an apple (Score:2)
Dell has a comparable deal [dell.com] that is $999 for an Inspiron 2650, comes with a free hard drive upgrade and a CD-burner (or DVD) upgrade. Not only that, but you get some really great tech support. And no, I don't work for dell. I just can't understand what all this jazz about getting an Apple is.
Sure the Mac has cool looking hardware, but beyond that is there really a compelling reason for techies/nerds to switch from Intel/AMD based machines?? I can't think of any real good reasons.
This is really not a troll, I'm just trying to understand what the hoopla is. Please enlighten me!!
Some Reasons I Hold (Score:3, Interesting)
2. Stability: On average(in my educated opinion in working with both Windows and Macintosh), Macs are more stable and recover from inevitable catastrophe better. There is also the general Total Cost of Ownership argument. Macs h ave, in many trials, proved to have a lower one on average.
3. Respite from Microsoft: Looking at the high proliferation of viruses, the security issues and Microsoft's openly shady business practices, one of my reasons is that I simply don't trust Microsoft.
4. Preference. Just because someone tells you one thing is better, it doesn't mean that it will be best for all.
In general, games are not that much an issue when many Mac users just buy a cheap PC optimized toward gaming for what doesn't come to Mac and do their real work on a Macintosh. To many, PCs seem to equate to toys and I'm not one to argue with that assertion as one of the most common arguments for sticking with Windows is games.
I use Macintosh because I get less aggravation from them. I have a little PC laptop that I use to play games that I can't get on Macintosh. I'm willing to wait to get games on my preferred platform, case in point Neverwinter Nights. The PC version is out with the Mac version pending. But I'll be waiting for the game to come on my platform of choice because I like using Mac better and I want to show support for my platform.
Hope this helped, though I'm sure some could come up with more points.
A Number of Good Reasons (Score:4, Interesting)
2) The laptops have noticably longer battery life than their equivelent Intel counterparts
3) and snazzy 16:10 displays...
4) The high end model now comes with a DVD-RW burner and software
5) The OS is Unix-like. Dual boot OS X with Gentoo PPC GNU/Linux, and you have the best of all possible worlds.
That last point is the most important. My next laptop will almost certainly now be an Apple, with the DVD-RW burner. Of course, I'm not going to order them until shipping times become a couple of days, rather than a month, and I'll probably prefer just going to the store to buy one I can take home with me, but with this new release the Intel platform, with its Microsoft pre-installed crap (that I blow away anyway), its short battery life and no non-external DVD-RW burning options, has lost me as customer. Palladium has likely made that loss perminent.
So yes, unlike many such promotional stories, I think this is a big deal, it is certainly News for Nerds, and for many readers, myself included, it is certainly Stuff That Matters.
They're great machines, that's why (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing that makes a big difference for me is that the internationalization is seamless; right now, I'm converting a PHP app from English to Japanese. Using my iBook I can open the files from the Linux server using samba and easily convert the strings in the text editor that comes with Os X. If I have to do other editing to the code, I prefer vi, which comes standard. SSH is right there for me. My shell works the way I need it to, without installing Cygwin.
I have 4 computers on my desk - Redhat/Japanese Windows dualboot IBM Thinkpad, 2 NT Workstations (Eng. & Jp.) and my iBook. I could use any of them that I wanted, but the iBook is what works best for me. (The RedHat box comes close, but I've tweaked the hell out of it to get it just right - it would take weeks to set up another box the same way, whereas I could pick up another iBook and replace this one instantly.)
The suite of "iApps" (iCal, iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iEtc...) are a joy to use, better than anything you can get for Windows. Really. Mail filters out spam perfectly for me out of the box. Viruses? Not even an issue.
Plus, every app looks great. I stare at the computer all day at work, it might as well look good. Let's face it, Windows is tired-looking, even XP, which to me looks cartoonish and pathetic.
As for games, I wouldn't know - I haven't got time for them.
After a while, you get to the point where you'll be happy to pay a bit more for a machine that actually works.
Oh, yeah, BATTERY LIFE. Sweet.
Cheers,
Jim
Price points remain about the same? (Score:2, Informative)
I'm convinced, anyway; the midrange iBook looks very compelling to me. All the OSS stuff I need plus Powerpoint without rebooting. I'll hopefully be ordering one later.
Here's how Dell stacks up (hint: buy the PB) (Score:4, Interesting)
I chose the Dell Inspiron line, since they have a better price/performance ratio than the Latitudes. The only Inspiron that's in the ballpark, weight-wise, is the 4150 (5.6-6.5lbs, 1.47" thick). The powerbook wins this one hands-down.
I configured it w/ a 2.0Ghz P4, SXGA+ screen, and the best available video card: a 32MB Radeon 7500 Mobility. A 2.2Ghz CPU runs +$200USD, subtract $200 for a 1.7Ghz CPU. The powerbook only has a 1Ghz CPU, but that's Apples and oranges (ha, ha). The Powerbook has a better GPU (Radeon 9000) and more video ram (64MB).
Next up...drives. The powerbook comes w/ a Superdrive and a 60GB HDD. The best the Dell can do is a DVD/CD-RW and a 40GB HDD.
I configured both systems with 1GB RAM, a 3-year warranty, and a pro operating system (OSX, XP Pro). Both got internal wireless (included on the Apple, extra on the Dell). Both have an internal NIC and internal modem, although the powerbook has 1000BT and the Dell only has 100BT.
The Dell comes out to $3042, the Powerbook is $3,388. Subtract $200 from the PB if you only want the combo drive that's in the Dell and not a Superdrive.
The Powerbook is a hell of a deal...better video, faster networking, better HDD and optical drive, better OS, smaller form factor, better engineering, and only a very small price premium.
(The usual disclaimers apply. This is one comparison out of a million possible comparisons. Size/weight are important to me, that's why I didn't look at the Inspiron 8200, blah blah blah.)
Re:Here's how Dell stacks up (hint: buy the PB) (Score:3, Interesting)
Yea, I held out on replacing my powerbook until today
Re:Here's how Dell stacks up (hint: buy the PB) (Score:4, Insightful)
The Dell seems a lot thicker than the powerbook, I'm not sure what the actual specs are. It's also got a cheap plastic case, not Titanium.
The Dell was a lot cheaper, though. The Inspiron 8xxx series is a giant monster, and is more comparable to lugging around an iMac than a Powerbook.
Well that's all well and good, except... (Score:3, Interesting)
- a larger screen (15" widescreen, has a higher resolution in every dimension than the 1024x768 screen on the lattitude)
- a DVD-R/CD-RW
- 4x as much RAM
- a better GPU
- lighter
- longer battery life
- Gigabit ethernet (i've actually used this on my PB!)
- 2 USB ports
- thinner
- a firewire port
- additionally, it's running a beatiful, powerful, UNIX based OS.
In fact, the only interesting feature the 640 has that the PowerBook doesn't is IR.
I'm not saying the Powerbook is for everyone, but if you're going to make cost comparisons, choose fairly. The PowerBook is the flagship of the Apple laptop line. It is the ideal combination of a highly portable laptop with a desktop replacement. The lattitude 640 above doesn't compare.
Say what you will about processor speed... (Score:3, Funny)
Closest I've come to tech Nirvana...
Sorry...I'm tech drunk - I've said too much - (but you're some of the few people in the world who can understand).
Forgive me.
Here's the text of a CNET news story on the topic: (Score:4, Interesting)
The PowerBook line now includes an 867MHz model, available now for $2,299, and a 1GHz model that can both burn and read CDs and DVDs. That model will be available later this month for $2,999.
"This is what our customers have been waiting for," Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of hardware marketing, said in a statement. He noted that the new PowerBook is the first notebook with a slot-loading drive that can burn DVDs.
As expected, Apple also bumped up the speed of all of its iBooks by 100MHz while dropping the price of each model by $200. The consumer portables also sport improved graphics now, using ATI Technologies' Mobility Radeon 7500 chip with up to 32MB of graphics memory.
With the faster ATI chip, the iBook can now take advantage of the improved Quartz Extreme graphics engine built into the latest version of Mac OS X.
The three iBook models consist of a $999 model with a 700MHz chip, a 12.1-inch screen, a CD-ROM drive, 128MB of memory and a 20GB hard drive; a $1,299 model with an 800MHz chip, a 12.1-inch screen, a combination CD-rewritable/DVD-ROM drive, 128MB of memory and a 30GB hard drive; and a $1,599 model with an 800MHz chip, a 14-inch screen, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, 256MB of memory and a 30GB hard drive.
As for the PowerBooks, the low-end model comes with a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, 256MB of memory and a 40GB hard drive. In addition to the DVD burner, the high-end model includes 512MB of memory, a 60GB hard drive and a preinstalled Airport card for wireless networking.
Winter in Whistler (Score:5, Interesting)
No USB 2.0? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:No USB 2.0? (Score:3, Informative)
All that said, I don't see FireWire going anywhere. I do see it redefining its niche to be purely high-bandwidth applications such as video cameras and very fast external drives. Do remember, however, that FireWire 2 is due very soon and will literally double the bandwidth. Could change things considerably.
Ditto and... (Score:3, Informative)
Besides, recent test results have shown that USB may not be the Firewire killer it's touted to be in real-world situations.
Re:No USB 2.0? (Score:3, Informative)
Firewire also offers things like isosynchronous transfers, and a more flexible chaining topology.
Re:No USB 2.0? (Score:3, Informative)
USB 2.0 has a PEAK transfer of 480 mbps, whilst firewire has a SUSTAINED transfer of 400 mbps. As the other poster at my level also stated, firewire also chains better, is more consistent in its speed and generally is better for high bandwidth purposes. USB 2, while it has gained some support in external hard drives and CD-Rs, is still an inferior product that was created more for political reasons.
USB belongs on the low bandwidth end (mice, webcams, keyboards) whilst higher transfer devices should be firewire (digital camcorders, iPod, hard drives).
Heh, I don't even own a Mac and I'm praising firewire, lol!
Good Timing (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, I seemed to have lucked out with my first Apple purchase. One of the first e-mails I looked at this morning:
Yup, that's right. My bad luck, I just ordered an iBook last week. This is a *very* cool move by Apple... they simply canceled my old order (for the low end model) and swapped in a new order (for the low end model). I'm saving $200 + tax on this, and getting a faster model.
Quick note for those who recommend gobs of RAM... that's done and done. Same day I ordered the iBook, I placed an order with Coast To Coast Memory for an addition 512 MB. $95 after tax and shipping, and it's already here.
That's the downside... I wanted the laptop this week. At least they had a good excuse for not getting it to me. :)
SuperDrive! No Bluetooth??? (Score:3, Interesting)
But Apple has been touting the virtues of BlueTooth for nearly a year (January MacWorld) and no machine yet has it built in? They didn't even add it to their new PB? What gives? Steve, hello; are you listening to your own hype? How about walking some of that talk?
Radeon 9000 --- finally. I guess I'm still waiting for their BT portables. Get rid of the dongle. At least they finally are including the 802.11b adapters with two of the three configurations (a first!). That should be built-in standard as well (for all portables).
Apple has done a pioneering and hassle-free job of integrating wireless and BT. With their hub strategy, you'd think they'd tout all that awesome work by shipping standard to take advantage of 802.11b and BT.
Fingers crossed for next edition PB (including BT and 802.11b (802.11g?)).
They Even Updated our Orders!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This is great!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is great!! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This is great!! (Score:3, Insightful)
EU is screwed on price, as usual. (Score:3, Informative)
US version
$2299 867mhz
$2799 cdrw
$2999 superdrive
European version
2988 867mhz
3682 cdrw
3945 superdrive
IF you can get a flight for less than $1000 you're saving money.
Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll make you a deal. You can have our Apple Macintosh Laptops at our price, if we can have prescription drugs at your price. Deal?
Re:This is great!! (Score:2, Informative)
MacRumors.com [macrumors.com] accurately reported on these updates: Powerbook/iBook Specs Roundup [macrumors.com].
Very Likely
Powerbook 800Mhz-1GHz with Superdrive
iBook G3 up to 800MHz
Probable
November 5th, 2002 Release Date
Possible
Bluetooth
Uncertain
13" iBook Screens
Radeon Mobility 9000
Overall, they do a pretty good job collecting and sifting through the rumors.
Not sad, good engineering. (Score:5, Insightful)
The majority of the processing needed in modern pcs is in fact for all the graphics. So it makes perfect sense to have a faster GPU than CPU - that's where the horsepower is needed. Even if you're doing relatively computationally intense work (I run statistical analyses daily) the requirement still don't add up to the level required to run Aqua or WinXPs graphics.
Remember the Amigas? Positively legendary machines, and for good reason, they were designed this way. The CPU wasn't much at all by modern standards, but it was enough to do what it needed to do just fine (and, in all honesty, enough to handle the non-graphical computations done on most pcs to this day.) The Video Toaster was capable of working pretty much independant of the CPU, and it had a lot more horsepower... the end result was a machine that surpassed PCs made many years later in real functional power.
Re:argh (Score:3, Informative)
Re:argh (Score:5, Informative)
I know this because I wanted to exchange my 15" iMac for a 17" iMac. They didn't want to do it because I had ordered my iMac with extra memory. I had to talk to a manager who not only accepted the exchange, but waived the stocking fee. Their staff was courteous and professional, but persistence pays.
Re:Apple proves the 'rumours guys' wrong (Score:5, Informative)
There's much better Mac rumor sites out there - MacRumors [macrumors.com] and Macslash [macslash.com] being two of them.
Re:Apple proves the 'rumours guys' wrong (Score:3, Funny)
Needless to say, I'm wracking my brains to come up with a good one to send him prior to MacWorld in January.
Re:Oh Dear.. Here come the hokey speedbump jokes.. (Score:2, Funny)
check out tomshardware; links included (Score:2)
here is a link to a recent story comparing radeons and geforces:
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q4/021024
i consider tomshardware to be one of the best, most honest/accurate/valuable publications available online today (no i don't work for them)... i've used their advice to buy countless components and several full machines and have never been disappointed; they save me the work of scouring 30 different news sites and making my own balanced unbiased opinion because Tom's already is.
Actually the high end G4 is 1.25GHz (Score:2)
Personally I wish Apple would release a Handheld and Tablet style Mac. This would make me switch my software completely to Mac. I'm not fond of trying to sell an Apple based solution using Windows for the Tablet/Handheld part. Seems like I'm contradicting myself when I'm saying Apple is better.
However when I charge 1/10th the fee for supporting an Apple as compared to a PC, people tend to notice.
Re:MegaHertz Myth!! (Score:5, Informative)
So as not to be a complete ass, the first link from that article as a statement that a P4 overclocked to 3.9GHz (wow--he used liquid nitrogen) was only able to do 4.9 Gigaflops. A dual-G4 1GHz did 15 Gigaflops...
Re:Naturally.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Naturally.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:iBook != Education System (Score:3, Insightful)
What is "proprietary" about Apple's hardware, and how is it different from the "proprietary" hardware that Dell, Sony, and Gateway sell?
Oh, I see you're an ignorant troll. Nevermind.Re:iBook != Education System (Score:3, Insightful)
Standard Anti-Apple Rant #14. I won't even bother (I don't think $999 is expensive).
The Unix-side of OSX was updated to 4.4 with Jaguar.
First, what is "non-native" hardware? Secondly, what's so proprietary about IDE drives, SDRAM, Firewire, OpenFirmware (OK - that's not hardware per se) or PPC?
You know, not everybody on Slashdot is a stark raving mad zealot misspelling "Microsoft" intentionally.
Student Developer discount (Score:3, Informative)
Details:
Student Developer Membership [apple.com]
Student Hardware Purchase Program [apple.com]
TiBook in the Hardware Purchase Program [apple.com]
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)