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Handhelds Hardware

PalmSource Talks About PalmOS 6.0 91

Posted by timothy from the bits-n-whistles dept.
stevejsmith writes "The Register has released an article regarding PalmSource speaking about their next OS, PalmOS 6.0. The Register says, 'Version 6.0 will be as dramatic a change for the platform as OS X was for Apple, or NT was for Microsoft...', that it will actually include some source code of BeOS, and that will support Microsoft's .NET platform, among other things."
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PalmSource Talks About PalmOS 6.0 More

PalmSource Talks About PalmOS 6.0

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  • Swappable... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bobulusman ( 467474 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @01:52AM (#4570954)
    Version 6.0 will feature granular, application-level security and pluggable I/O interfaces. Which means that licensees can swap out the Graffiti input mechanism for an alternative,
    That would be welcome upgrade. I know a lot of people dislike it.

    While I like the graffiti on my Visor Deluxe, it would nice if someone could design an interface with all the graffiti symbols that could 'learn' what I mean, the way a speak recognition program does. I have sloppy writing and it's takes me too long to enter in all my assignments.

    • Re:Swappable... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Phouk ( 118940 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @02:28AM (#4570996)
      TealScript is a hack that already does what you want, have a look at http://www.tealpoint.com/software.htm

    • Re:Swappable... (Score:3, Informative)

      by MBoffin ( 259181 )
      You should check out NewPen. It's an app that turns your screen area into the graffiti pad. That in itself is not so useful. What is useful is that it actually traces behind your stylus so you can see what you are writing. It also draws the big dot where you started, so you can see the flow. My graffiti handwriting improved 10x just from this app alone, mainly because I can actually see what I'm writing.

      I thought this would be a tough app to live with, but it was thought out well. Go ahead and try it to see what I mean.

      The other option is to get a Sony Clie that has the software-drawn graffiti area. Those models feature the draw-behind by default. Very smart, but then again, Sony has always made cool stuff cooler.

  • hacks (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ramzak2k ( 596734 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @02:18AM (#4570982)
    its nice to read the lines

    Version 6.0 will be as dramatic a change for the platform as OS X was for Apple, or NT was for Microsoft, and represents the culmination of work from the former Be team Palm acquired last year.

    get a bunch of talented developers, innovations will follow.

    On the other hand, i am interested to know if 6.0 would have any backward compatibility & run the apps i currently have(NT/OS X had little to no support for apps running on previous versions)
    • (NT/OS X had little to no support for apps running on previous versions)

      You're gonna have to wait a few years for PalmOS XP to be released.
    • The article states that an emulation layer for Palm OS 4/5 apps will be part of OS 6.

      P.S. Ever hear of Classic 9 ... yeah its the OS X compatibility layer for non OS X apps.

      P.P.S. I don't even know what your talking about with the NT crap. Almost all Windows applications that run in NT will run in 2K/XP. Later versions of 2K (SP2 and up?), and all versions of XP include the ability to specify the emulation layer to use.
    • NT/OS X had little to no support for apps running on previous versions

      I can't speak for NT-- I never used a PC before Windows 2000-- but OS X has almost complete support for running legacy applications. Applications that comply with the Carbon API spec-- a subset of the original Macintosh Toolbox APIs-- run natively in OS X. Applications that don't, run in the Classic virtual machine. While compatibility with Classic is not total, the number of programs that won't run is very, very small. In fact, I have a couple of small programs on my Mac that date back to the System 7 days; they're not even PowerPC binaries; they were compiled on a Motorola 68030 back in 1991 or so. They run very well under the Classic VM on my 2002-model Power Mac G4. Pretty fast, too. ;-)
    • get a bunch of talented developers, innovations will follow.

      The innovations already happened at Be, that's why they acquired that company and employees. They are competent engineers with a background in a multimedia-oriented, modern OS. Sounds like a good plan to me.

      On the other hand, i am interested to know if 6.0 would have any backward compatibility & run the apps i currently have

      If you'd read the article past the second sentence, you'd have seen this:

      Mace stressed the diversity of the potential market for PalmOS, so the developers are covering as many bases as possible. Meanwhile older applications will run alongside the new applications written to the new APIs:-


      "The emulation layer will be around for a long time," Mace told us. "OS 4.0 and 5.0 will co-exist."
    • I debate that statement about OS X. Mac OS X can run almost all apps for previous versions. Carbon programs run native, and others will run just fine in Classic. There are a few programs (mostly badly ported PC games) which crash in Classic, but the vast majority of programs run problem-free on X (even MPW!),

  • PalmOS 6 = good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by itzdandy ( 183397 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @02:44AM (#4571008) Homepage
    I am looking forward to seeing/getting one of the new Palms with OS6. Handspring has plans for an XScale 600Mhz machine/ATI imageon and 128MB memory for launch with PalmOS6. I currently have a Toshivae740 which i like but WinCE is not my idea of a efficient OS, typical microsoft software, tries to be everything to everyone right out of the box. I like the idea of a "modular" palm6 so i can kill all the crap i dont like without the OS dieing. example=WinCE. If you delete the PocketExcel folder, the damn thing wont boot!

    Palm will most likely have optimized builds for different chips used. the new ARM should have its own build, the old ARM, XScale, etc.

    i have heard rumors that palm6 will also be using by sony in some upcomming set top boxes with 'tivo'like features, and with the BeOS technology we should get a nice smooth and quick interface with great media abilities.
  • At what point is this no longer a palm? Or will the next generation simply create a new paradigm for "palm"; the near actualization of the ultra slim pc idea that failed?

  • no be source (Score:3, Informative)

    by millette ( 56354 ) <robin AT millette DOT info> on Thursday October 31, 2002 @03:14AM (#4571028) Homepage Journal
    Steve Sakoman, the team's former leader at Be Inc, and now PalmSource's "chief products officer" has denied that Be code would be incorporated into the new OS. More likely, we suspect, the new OS will inherit some algorithms and architecture from BeOS.
    See, it says right there, _no_ be code in there. But who reads the articles, right?

    • Re:no be source (Score:3, Informative)

      by be-fan ( 61476 )
      This article appeared in The Register, and another guy at Palm said that there *was* BeOS code in there. So its a matter of debate.

  • OSX XP? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by octane097 ( 210723 )
    I love how they say "as innovative as OSX to the Mac and NT to the PC" insinuating the "innovation" for Microsoft was when NT came out years ago
    • Isn't it true, though? OS X is as different from OS 9 as Windows NT was from Windows 3.whateveritwas. Windows 2000 and XP, however, have really only been incremental improvements on the original NT release. In fact, weren't Windows 2000 and XP referred to internally as NT 5.0 and NT 5.1, respectively? (I don't know that to be true, but I've heard it repeated often enough I'm starting to think it might be.)
      • > weren't Windows 2000 and XP referred to
        > internally as NT 5.0 and NT 5.1, respectively?

        It is. Win2k retail is NT 5.00.2195. XP retail (from memory) is 5.1.2600. Type "ver" at a (NT/2k/XP) console to verify this.

    • The word innovate was never used, you should first get the quote right. The quote was as dramatic a change for the platform as OS X was for Apple, or NT was for Microsoft . It was a dramatic change for MS, NT was their first 32-bit OS (not counting their work on OS/2).
  • Pieces of BeOS, eh? I wonder if a truly portable mini-studio will finally be possible... I speak from experience when I say that you never know when the inspiration will hit you.

    It'd be great to be able to sample cool sounds on the move and mangle those into even cooler sounds during the bus trip home.

    I'm sure I'd have lot's more good stuff on my home page with a thing like that ;)
    • You'd have a lot more good stuff on your home page if you learned that 'truly portable mini-studios' have been around for years.

      What you want is a fancy one that also acts as an address book.
      • Good point, but proprietary hardware for things like this is nowhere near as flexible as real software. Especially if the software is open source and evolving, unlike preprogrammed hardware.

        Granted, open source audio software is only beginning to emerge, but I tend to try and take the future into account when I buy stuff.
  • "The road to updating PalmOS has been a long one, and the company is halfway to its goal of moving off the 68000 hardware onto ARM, and providing a modern multitasking OS."

    Didn't Apple computer make these claims in the early/mid 90's?
  • Any idea as to how much of .NET will be supported? I would assume it to be the "Compact Framework" subset?

  • Palm OS 6 - too little, too late? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @06:14AM (#4571131)
    The biggest problem I can see for Palm is that the world and his dog is expecting what OS 6 will deliver today.

    By the time they actually get around to delivering it, the goalposts will have changed (by the likes of Symbian and Microsoft) and Palm will have to play catch up again.

    On a side note, releasing the Tungstun W (phone one) with OS 4 was a monumentally stupid thing to do. If they're going to commit to OS 5, then they should do immediately - not release two new phones with one running the old OS.

    Go to OS 5. Don't look back. Encourage developers to code for OS 5, encourage users who want the power to upgrade. If they're going to release a trickle of OS 4 PDA's then developers will just stick to OS 4.

    Oh yes, and the Tungstun slidely thing is silly. I'm going to have to spend my entire time opening and retracting it as I use grafitti a lot - which means it'll break quickly. We need to see sexy and desirable PDA's come onto the market to persuade people to upgrade. This one doesn't (maybe Sony will) ... and for god's sake, even with the low memory requirements of apps, 32 meg is peanuts! Your apps may be smaller than PPC's, but the size of your data is going to be the same.

    On a final note, I wonder if OS 6 will actually appear. OS 5 could be make-or-break for Palm. If there is no interest (after all, it doesn't *look* any different and thats what Joe Blow will see) then it'll hurt them very very badly.

    • I'm going to have to spend my entire time opening and retracting it as I use grafitti a lot - which means it'll break quickly.

      Just leave it open when you're writing something, or when you have it out and aren't just looking something up.

      I suspect that the engineers are well aware that in the typical "30 minutes use per day" that the graffitti area will be opened and closed at least ten times; it's probably designed to stand up to a lot, which means that it won't break as quickly as you think it will.

    • 32 meg is peanuts on a wince machine, but not on a palm. Not only is the footprint for programs smaller, but I still run everything I need (graphing, programmable calculators; doc editor; gameboy emulator; numerous other games; excel compatible spreadsheets; about 6 books; internet browser; phone apps; datebook; agenda) quite comfortably on the 8 megs on my IIIc.

      For more storage, well, that's what the removable storage is for.

      Plus you need to remember that a PDA is NOT a laptop, and isn't meant to replace one.

      And finaly, what I've been waiting for to replace my IIIc is a palmOS, highrez colour screen, removable strorage, wireless (wifi or bluetooth), integrated mobile phone PDA. Looks like Palm is the one to deliver...Kyocera and Treo just didn't get it.
    • "Oh yes, and the Tungstun slidely thing is silly. I'm going to have to spend my entire time opening and retracting it as
      I use grafitti a lot - which means it'll break quickly."

      Reportedly, this was tested for 100,000 open/close cycles. That doesn't sound fragile to me.

      "32 meg is peanuts!"

      That's why you have SD cards. 1G ones will be coming out soon.
    • > On a side note, releasing the Tungstun W (phone
      > one) with OS 4 was a monumentally stupid thing
      > to do. If they're going to commit to OS 5, then
      > they should do immediately - not release two
      > new phones with one running the old OS.

      Yup...I was thinking of getting one up until the point they indicated OS4...and no ARM based chip.

      Anyone know if they have plans for another smart phone with these hurtles overcome?
    • " By the time they actually get around to delivering it, the goalposts will have changed (by the likes of Symbian and Microsoft) and Palm will have to play catch up again."

      Palm is trying to replace the Sybian [google.com]?
      I guess some women used their real palm for that before, Might as well make the Palm(tm) do it to :x

    • Re:Palm OS 6 - too little, too late? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      >>>>

      gonna be ready mid 2003. Read the whole article before commenting.

      >Go to OS 5. Don't look back. Encourage >developers to code for OS 5,
      Coding for os5 isnt all that different from coding for os4 beause the api is the same and you are still producing 68k code. You can write "armlets" but not whole arm applications. not till 6.

      >Oh yes, and the Tungstun slidely thing is silly.
      Have you used it yet? I sort of thought the same thing you did but combined with the new powerful disc/button it works really well. I love the form factor. It just has an elegance m$ will never have. its about the size of a deck of cards. I just wish it had virtual graffiti. Then id never even open the graffit slot.

      >>with the low memory requirements of apps, 32 >>meg is peanuts!
      yeh for a bloated pocket pc app. 16 mb is absolutely huge for a palm. i have an app with thousand of records and 70+ forms. the whole things uses 1.5 megs. Besides with cheap/fast flash cards who cares?

      >On a final note, I wonder if OS 6 will actually >appear. OS 5 could be make-or-break for Palm. If
      Remember that palm and palmos are 2 different companies now so who cares if palm dies. someone else will come on board. i guarentee you apple comes out with an os6 device next year.
    • The biggest problem I can see for Palm is that the world and his dog is expecting what OS 6 will deliver today.

      By the time they actually get around to delivering it, the goalposts will have changed (by the likes of Symbian and Microsoft) and Palm will have to play catch up again.

      That's what they said about Netscape vs. Microsoft. Netscape can never catch up to Microsoft's browser quality and feature-set.

      Now with Mozilla 1.2, who is behind, in terms of the features and innovation on the browser front?

      Where there's a will, there's a way.
    • On a side note, releasing the Tungsten W (phone one) with OS 4 was a monumentally stupid thing to do. If they're going to commit to OS 5, then they should do immediately

      Palm OS5 requires an ARM processor. I would think that fitting ARM into the W would add another $50 to the internal cost-of-goods, not to mention development costs.

      Given the market's sensitivity to price points right now (especially for items that are perceived as overpriced in the first place), the number of people who will vocalize displeasure about the W not having OS5 is relatively insignificant compared to the number of people that will howl at it's being ~$75-$100 more expensive.

  • new and improved (Score:3, Insightful)

    by trb ( 8509 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @02:00PM (#4572338)
    If they want to improve the PDA, they should concentrate on the following:
    • easier to read display
    • longer battery life
    • more reliable
    • cheaper
    • faster
    • lighter/thinner
    • more memory
  • The article says

    Which means that licensees can swap out the Graffiti input mechanism for an alternative, such as biometrics.

    Wow, so instead of writing characters to input text, I can do it with my fingerprint, retina pattern, heart rate, etc.? That's so cool!

    [For the humor-impaired, that's a joke]

  • Anyone know what multilingual capabilities the new OS will have, i.e. character encoding support, fonts, locale-specific formatting, bidi, etc.? As far as encodings go, it would be great to see some Unicode support built in (UTF-8 or UCS-2, depending on available memory and language priorities).

    I know that older versions of the OS were 8-bit (for European languages), which is fine except that you can't mix languages supported by different encoding families (can't build that killer multilingual dictionary for the Palm!).

  • "... and after a brief diversion into surrealism bought Be's development staff in August last year."
    developers bought and sold like commodities.

  • All right... (Score:3, Funny)

    by jelle ( 14827 ) on Thursday October 31, 2002 @05:04PM (#4574014) Homepage
    "and that will support Microsoft's .NET platform, among other things."

    All right... PalmOS 5 it is... (no that is not a typo).

  • What would be really awesome is if Palm's new OS wan installable on Windows PocketPC hardware. I'd pay $50-100 to be able to run palm os 6.0 on an iPaq or Tosh 740 with built-in 802.11b.

    It would be even cooler if they could manage to get it to dual boot. But I'd settle for one or the other. This would be great for people who's companies insist that they buy WinCE devices. They could just buy them and then buy PalmOS for it.
  • there's an article in the NYTimes's Circuits section today: From Inside, Palm Makes a New Start [nytimes.com] It's an interesting read
  • to be able to install palm6 on one of the current PDAs. I know my e740 will be a bit out of date as far as WinCE machines are concerned, no doubt WinCE4 will require a 1Ghz+ proc and 256MB memory.

    PalmOS6 on the other hand, will still be able to run on more modest hardware. I would hope that a XScale400Mhz wouold be enough.

    and to be ablke to install PalmOS6 onto my e740 and bring it up to current would be great.
  • I purchased a Palm 1000 the first week that it went on sale, as it seemed to be the first truly-usable PDA.
    Since day 1 I've been using address book, calender, and to some degree the to-do lists and memos. The only other thing that I've ever found to be even vaguely interesting since then is the Zagat restaurant software.
    I've seen a ton of other potential uses for Palms that failed -- for viewing medical records, for example. I suspect that anything small enough to fit in a pocket is too small to do many things with.
    On the other hand, I've seen Microsoft, a very smart and successful company, repeatedly try to top Palm -- only to get killed by overly-complexifying Win CE.
    So I wince whenen I hear that Palm is looking to add complexitity a la Win CE. I hope Palm keeps it simple! If they must add complexity, I hope that the basic things that Palms are good for do not become bloated.
  • Any chance of getting the Kyocera 7135 [kyocera-wireless.com] upgraded to this before it comes out?
  • I have this rule. When an os relese scedual speeds up get worryed.
    Palm was making major releases once every few years. Thats how in all this time palm os has only gotten to ver 3 then palm releases palm os 4. Well thats about on time. 5 ok major platform change justifyed. 6... ok now we've just dubbled the major version number inside a year.

    I like palm I really do. It's a small business tool. I'm posting to ./ from my visor right now and mom called to tell me her i705 just crashed again.
    But maybe that last example is the point. My Visor's not as trubblesom as her palm.
    And people want movie and mp3 players etc. I don't see the big deal not like the screen on a pocket pc is any bigger.
    I'll stick with my visor for now becouse I can't see myself forking over for a WinCE or Linux PDA just yet.
    There are few who want Windows or Linux on a PDA but then that number is dropping...

    Maybe I'll ger a Dragonix next time.
  • You'd better beat it. You can leave in a taxi. If you can't get a taxi, you
    can leave in a huff. If that's too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff.
    -- Groucho Marx

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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