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Hardware

Smaller Than The Mini PC, The P4/2400 Micro PC 184

Posted by timothy from the smaller-than-yours-nyeah-nyeah dept.
fist_187 writes "Tom's Hardware Guide has a story on the smallest PC since the Mini-PC: The MicroPC. It's a Pentium 4/2400 MHz machine, but you'd probably mistake it for a cable modem. I'm sure this trend will continue on to the Nano-PC, Pico-PC, and the Dick Tracy Watch."
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Smaller Than The Mini PC, The P4/2400 Micro PC More

Smaller Than The Mini PC, The P4/2400 Micro PC

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  • thats a killer feature really.

    • Re:it lacks DVI,,, (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Gumber ( 17306 )
      Yeah, no kidding. Tiny PC goes rather nicely with a flat panel. Using an analog connection between CPU and display intrudes on the elegance of the arrangement.

    • Re:it lacks DVI,,, (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rodgerd ( 402 )
      DVI and a decent chipset - I'd be interested to know why they didn't go with a mobile Radeon or GeForce chipset, which would presumably be OK heat and power wise for the enclosure.

      Even with only mediocre graphics, it's a tempting bumble.

    • Re:it lacks DVI,,, (Score:4, Interesting)

      by mentin ( 202456 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @11:42PM (#4439500)
      Yeah, DVI is a must.

      They would better remove the usual COM and parallel ports - who the hell needs them now? Sure not the people who would buy this thing. It would save them one third of the back panel space and sure lots of space inside.

      I will also wait till this thing gets build-in Bluetooth and WiFi, so I don't have to connect zillions of cables that take more space than the box itself.

      • The PCMCIA slot would probably take a wireless card and you can buy USB based Bluetooth adaptors, such as the this one [dlink.com] from D-Link. Even better, if you have a USB keyboard such as the one used on Macs, you can plug the adapator straight into the keyboard.
      • They would better remove the usual COM and parallel ports - who the hell needs them now? Sure not the people who would buy this thing. It would save them one third of the back panel space and sure lots of space inside.

        Actually, there are lots of industrial buyers or hobbyists who require COM and/or parallel, and would love a small quiet PC. A couple quick examples:

        • A home automation hacker... parallel ports are easy and quick to hook up
        • Industrial control, even if small doesn't mean rugged there are still applications where this is a good idea.
        • Car or mobile computing enthusiast. My car computer has 3 serial ports used. One for the remote control, one for the character based LCD screen, and a dongle for connecting to my car's engine control system, once I figure out the interface.


        Serial and parallel ports are cheap and don't take up THAT much room. Sure it takes up space on the back panel that could conceivably be used for something else (for what I'm not sure)... but internal space wise... practically nothing. The controllers are generally built into the southbridge these days and the connectors just aren't that deep.

        You can't just take them out and shrink the computer though. I'm sure that the inside is literally stuffed with components and that this is literally as small as you can make it without going to prohibitively priced microminiaturized components.
    • Since when haven't PCs been Microcomputers?

  • What would be nice... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi@yahoA ... inus threevowels> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:12PM (#4438380) Journal
    A breakout box for all the cables to go into, rather than having them all stuck in the back. That would allow many more options for placement, and reduce cable pileup.

    Just a thought.

  • It's not what I want... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What I REALLY want is a mini with the absorbtion of the maxi!

  • I can understand the mini pc (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Morgahastu ( 522162 ) <bshelNO@SPAMWEEZ ... fave bands name> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:14PM (#4438389) Journal
    but at this point, this thing is basicly a laptop without any output or input devices. It's nothing spectacular. A mini pc would be good to keep arround if you are a technician and you just need a portable machine to plug a hard drive in to recover files (or something similar, you get my drift) but this is just not practical.

    I am hoping shuttle makes a semi-mini pc since the mini pc is a little too small for me (I like to add pci cards). Or have they already?
    • They usually have about 3 PCI slots or so, several producers make these... but they're usually integrated cheap-o mobos, few people care about the extra inches 3 more slots for a full-size ATX board adds. Too bad really, because I don't need 6 PCI slots, but I still got a full-sized ATX mobo recently because of features.

      Kjella
    • Not really. I may seem that way. But this isn't suppoesd to be a laptop, rather, a portable computer. If you move around a lot (but always at a desk with power etc) then this is usefull since you can stil have a proper keyboard and screen etc.
  • anybody have the modchip out for this console [tomshardware.com] yet?

    oh wait...
  • "In appearance and dimensions, it can be compared to a modern toaster as found in most households."

    I don't know about you guys, but most people I know have some old, crappy looking toaster. If they make a computer that looks like this [ruffwork.com], I'll buy it just for a good laugh.

    -Lucas

  • Built-In SiS Graphics chip (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cioxx ( 456323 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:19PM (#4438408) Homepage
    How many of you want to bet this will not even install UT2003, let alone run it.

    Sort of defeats the purpose of a LAN party convinience. If only they could make it 1 inch wider to include a Radeon 9700pro...

    But that's just wishful thinking.

  • It makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JanneM ( 7445 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:20PM (#4438411) Homepage
    Since competing with speed is turning out to be non-productive, the focus will be on something else, and an obvious candidate is size. Another issue I would fervently hope gets on the table is noise and power consumption.

    I am sick and tired of large beige boxes sounding like a jet taking off. Having a unit like that as the home-wide server would be a dream come true. In the same way, the 'maxi'-notebooks increasingly seem like an excellent alternative to a traditional desktop, and much for the same reasons. Maybe, hopefully, we are not too far away from another format switch, where the base hardware is smaller and quieter than the stuff we put up with today.

    • Re:It makes sense (Score:5, Informative)

      by iankerickson ( 116267 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:21PM (#4438716) Homepage
      If you think a laptop will be money well spent towards getting a quieter computer, I think you'll be disappointed. I do a lot of service on PCs and laptops, and I've been repeatedly surprised how loud the laptop's really are -- almost a bad as a PC, if not as bad.

      I suspect the noise is from MTBF of fans and hard disks. It's true that some models of hard disks and fans really are quieter or louder than others. But take two PCs of the same model with exactly the same model parts and one will be louder. A fan can get dirt in the bearings, spin unevenly, or vibrate in place, all causing irritating noise. Everyone's experienced a hard disk that works just fine but has a piercing, tinitus-inducing whine, which usually gets worse over time. Just like when you a buy a PC, there's a certain chance that when you buy a laptop that you'll get a noisy one, and you'll either have to swap the guilty parts yourself, experiment with accoustic matting, or come up with a good excuse to exchange the noisy laptop for another of the same model and hope lightning doesn't strike twice.

      Now if you want your laptop to get _noisier_, just move it around a lot while it's powered on with the drives spun up and be sure to place next to a pile of dust-ridden papers. Bump, move, or shove the desk the laptop sits on as much as possible. It won't take long...

      If you want permanant lasting quiet, get a handheld PC, like a Psion or a PocketPC. They're certainly not as good as a "real" PC or laptop for the money, but they are _totally_ silent. The only sound mine makes is a slight hum from the backlight, but I have to put my ear near the screen to notice.

      When you say you hope we're up for another format switch in PCs, I think you're right. DoC sockets are becoming common on motherboards. CompactFlash cards are getting bigger and cheaper. USB 2 is adequate for connecting external hard disks. I suspect PCs are going to become more and more solid-state, but not for good reasons. I think Microsoft is going to push for the core of their OS to live on a DRM-enabled, read-only flash that requires digital keys to modify. Sure it will be cracked in a week, but I think the current X-box vs. Linux charade is just a rehearsal. Their using it as free research to see if it would work for PCs. Eventually PCs are going to become so powerful and so cheap that the threat "Buy a new computer!" if you want to upgrade your version of Windows will be like ordering someone to spend $50 to double the gas mileage of their car.

      Let the funny Microsoft/Automotive metaphors begin.


      • Everyone's experienced a hard disk that works just fine but has a piercing, tinitus-inducing whine, which usually gets worse over time.

        Acutally, no, I haven't experienced that, but I've been using Mac's since 2001.

        I do like watching planes take off though. When I miss the x86 market, a few minutes a Newark always remind me.

      • Re:It makes sense (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Chanc_Gorkon ( 94133 )
        You know, solid state is going to very soon look more appealing then anything else for storage and even for booting a PC like OS. Read only OS on compact flash? Sure. This would not only be a good idea, but a good thing for security. Less moving parts is always a good thing. And I think that Intel and AMD both know they need to do something about the power of these beasties. 350 W, 450 W and even 550 W Power Supplies are out and mostly because of the processor and the multiple drives alot of us are starting to really gain affinity for. DVD-RW drives will obsolete the need for more then one other 5 1/4 drive (unless you want to copy a disk, but then you could always copy it down to your massive hard disk....). Eventually, soon, you may even be able to boot fully functional Windows, or a special version of it on a cd for trouble shooting. Even booting a full Linux distro off of a CD will be possible too (I know it's mostly there now, but usually the cd bootable ones have stuff missing). The 1/44 MB 3.5 inch drive will go bye bye and be replaced by the DVD-RW and for smaller yet tech, CF cards or SD cards. Apple started getting rid of 3.5 inch floppies. We could get rid of them too but they still hang around our necks like a shackle. How would you flash a bios with out a floppy you say? How about create a small, bootable iso image with Linux and then flash it that way? ASUS has Live Update and it works, mostly. Never had it fry my bios anyway. I still feel uncomfortable doing this especially since there is a risk the OS could crash during the flash procedure. MB Companies need to do something here too. Using AFLASH is becoming harder because it's getting harder to create that dos diskette. If you have Windows XP or Windows ME, with exception of ME's emergency boot diskette, you cannot create a bootable floppy with format a: /s.

        In any event, these PC's along with others that finally start to look at what users want (cheap, powerful machines that can do any PC game with out having to buy a 300 dollar vid card) instead of the bottom line are what they will go for. Eventually, PC's that cost 2-3 thousand dollars will come with a screen comparable to a big screen TV. For us normal folks, we can be happy with a nice 15-17 inch screen and only have to pay about 200 bucks for top o da line..It will happen and sooner before later. IN 5 years, Hard disks could be obsoleted with the exception of those who need LARGE storage (storage like 2-4 TB Storage). Thos who need multi TB's of storage will still use harddisks, while us 100-200 GB Folks will be using CF cards.

        • Re:It makes sense (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Jhan ( 542783 )

          Interesting points... Summary:

          • OS in read only memory
          • Booting applications or even full OS environments from removable media
          • Cheap, yet powerful machines that are ultracompact, quiet and cool.

          Something similar to this A600 [amiga.org], perhaps? This fits nicely with my theory that the market for home computers (as oppsed to office computers transplanted to the home) never really went away. They just stopped being produced, for no very good reason.

        • This thread may be too old for anybody to see this, but: Windows XP has a 'make bootable MSDOS' floppy option. I discovered it by accident as we're STILL using floppies at the office to kickstart multicasting OS downloads.

          We're expecting to move the process ovr to bootable CDROMS but REALLY that's just an _image_ of a floppy with some additional storage we don't need. (All of the code, drivers, etc, fit on about 1.2mb of space) The OS image is about 1.5Gb, so you'd be swapping CD's if you wanted to do a non network rollout of the OS anyway.
      • My Sony Vaio is virtually silent in normal operation - I can't even hear the cooling fan unless I'm in a totally silent room. Compared to my Athlon sitting here whirring away now, it's sheer bliss. If it ran my W900 monitor at 1920x1200 I'd hook it up instead of the Athlon!

        It all depends on the quality of the laptop though, I've had cheap machines that really annoyed me after a few minutes use (including a Maxdata model that I honestly couldn't bear after 10 minutes). It's worth dropping by your local PC World to give a new laptop a test run, then obviously buy it elsewhere ;-)
      • If you want permanant lasting quiet, get a handheld PC, like a Psion or a PocketPC. They're certainly not as good as a "real" PC or laptop for the money, but they are _totally_ silent. The only sound mine makes is a slight hum from the backlight, but I have to put my ear near the screen to notice.

        Try the VIA Mini-ITX boards. The Eden 5000 doesn't have a fan and runs at 500MHz, and can run Windows. The 800 MHz version of the same board has a tiny fan on the proc that CAN be removed, but only if the case is well designed. They're designed to meet the exact needs you speak of; quiet but fully-featured (if not fully powered) computing. They're available for MSRP $99 and $109, though I've seen cheaper.

        A note on speeds. These boards use the C3. The C3 is a super optimized low-power chip. That is, it does some things blazingly fast, like a fetch-add-store. The C3 does the FAS in 1 clock. AMD's best offering takes 3 clocks. However most of the C3 instruction set it does MUCH slower... it was an 80/20 problem. Optimize 20% of the instructions and you optimize 80% of the runtime. That said, the C3 runs a little slower than your average Pentium at the same speed. Benchmarks indicate that it's comparable to a Celeron running at 60 - 80% of the clockspeed.

        I own one. The 800 MHz version's fan is so quiet, I can't hear it over the hard drive. Running apps isn't bad. I've heard rumors that the C3 has an ungodly L2 cache of 8 MB, and my empirical testing indicates that this is so... most applications take a bit to load up, but once an app is in memory it runs good. Expect a 2-5 second delay until the app cache is optimized.

        Some quick results:

        PowerDVD - runs GREAT. No visible drops, audio is good.
        NESticle - takes a few seconds to get up to speed, but once it is, no frame drops. Audio is decent with a few distortions, this is more likely due to the emulator than the processor though.
        DivX decoding - 320x240@24fps, expanded to 640x480 full screen with no drops
        Alien vs. Predator - 24 - 32 fps depending on options
        AVP2 - unplayable
        The Sims - barely playable
        Darkened Skye - very playable at 640x480. No idea on fps, but no visible delay in updates.

        So, for those who are looking for a quiet PC that's both cheap and usable, this is a good option. You might wanna wait a month for the new multi-media version to come out (looks like it has a REAL graphics core on it)... e-mail me at merlin_jim (at) hotmail.com if you're interested in details.
  • www4.tomshardware.com [tomshardware.com] seems to be working just fine.

  • Why not just buy a laptop? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:28PM (#4438432) Homepage
    I'm obviously missing something here (or missing something obvious here). What's the point? Why not just buy a laptop?

    • Re:Why not just buy a laptop? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by carpe_noctem ( 457178 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:46PM (#4438482) Homepage Journal
      Because the most expensive part of the laptop is really the screen, and when you have a micro PC, you are free of that component. (Note: I'm not necessarily agreeing with the logic here, I'm just trying to explain why people might want them.) Oh, yeah, and plus, there's the geek factor in owning a really cool looking gadget [thinkgeek.com] that all your nerd friends don't have yet.
      • Because the most expensive part of the laptop is really the screen, and when you have a micro PC, you are free of that component.

        That might be a nice explanation if this box wasn't more expensive than some laptops. At $2000 without a screen, it should probably be compared against $2300-$2500 laptops in terms of general performance -- Unfortunately, the benchmarks for this article weren't written up with that sort of comparison in mind.

    • Going by the data and pictures this is at least as small as a laptop.. maybe a little wider but not as high or wide. It also looks like it'll take more abuse than your average laptop. Also the screens, keyboards, and mouse doodads on laptops all sort of suck. Really to me a tiny PC like this is much more interesting than a normal laptop because in theory the same hardware should be cheaper which allows me to add my own i/o devices to fit my needs and location. Why choose between a laptop or a monster box for your office when you can have this and a nice flat panel monitor and a real keyboard and mouse.

      The only thing I'd like to see for this is an attachable power pack. A case mod to make it wearable would be interesting too. This has real possibilities as a wearable. :)

  • Obligatory Manufacturers Link (Score:4, Informative)

    by Kaypro ( 35263 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:29PM (#4438433)
    And please no jokes when the site get's /.'d that it must be running on one of these things ;)


    http://www.jadetec.co.uk/products/micropc4/ [jadetec.co.uk]

  • Picocomputer? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Citizen of Earth ( 569446 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:29PM (#4438434)
    Tom's Hardware Guide has a story on the smallest PC since the Mini-PC: The MicroPC.

    Given "microcomputer" as a synonym for a personal computer, would a micro-PC also be called a "picocomputer"?
    • No, because a microcomputer is a device that uses a microprocessor, which is a CPU that runs on microinstructions (as distinct from a mainframe which has (...had) a much larger instruction set.) Now that P4s (and especially G4s) basically have mainframe architectures, and minicomputers are dead, perhaps we should just drop the inane terminology altogether. PC (personal computer) and server work just fine.

  • Call me crazy, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sssmashy ( 612587 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:30PM (#4438445)

    I'm not going to spend an additional $1000+ or more just to save a cubic foot of space on my desk.

  • It's not the size that matters. (Score:4, Funny)

    by docstrange ( 161931 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:32PM (#4438447) Homepage
    The designers of this computer certainly aren't compensating for anything.

    It's not the size, but the way you use it.

  • Legacy Ports (Score:4, Insightful)

    by spankalee ( 598232 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:32PM (#4438449)
    I don't really understand including so many connectors in a mini computer. Why have two PS/2 ports, a serial port, a parallel, analog and digital audio in/out, 2 ethernet, and 2 non powered firewire ports?

    USB should replace the PS/2, serial and parallel ports, and I'd rather have one powered firewire ports then two unpowered ones, and I don't need 2 ethernet ports, or even a modem port on htat kind of computer.

    I wouldn't mind a PC Card slot though, and where's the DVI?

    Any one have a good reccomendation for a super-mini that can boot with LinuxBIOS so it doesn't need a HD or CD drive, but does have ethernet and USB?
    • It's got a PC card slot as well as 10/100/1000 ethernet.

    • I donn't recall any PC's using the powered 6 pin Firewire ports, only Apples, seems silly/strange.

      I don't really see the problem with the legacy ports, nor with the ethernet ports - 2 is more than usual but gives you flexibility. AFAIK most people don't use USB for their 'core' peripherals - the keyboard and mouse. Serial and parallel ports might be slowly going out, but there is still a lot of people using devices that need those ports.

      Could they afford to drop the legacy support?
      • The difference between 4-pin and 6-pin, is that 6-pin Firewire includes two lines for power. This is cool if you want to connect a device in that does not have its own power supply. For example, if you have an iPod it will charge the device.

        As for the other ports: Until someone comes up with a USB terminal, the serial port is useful. As for the PS2 and the parallel ports I couldn't agree more. Most new mice these days are USB with a PS2 adaptor and most printers are either ethernet or USB based. As for keyboards, I really don't understand why nobody can't sell a USB keyboard with a PS2 adaptor, as they do with mice.?
      • I donn't recall any PC's using the powered 6 pin Firewire ports, only Apples, seems silly/strange.

        Shuttle [shuttonline.com].

        Cheers,
        Ian

    • I guess not.

      " Plug-in for PC cards (PCMCIA): the slot is on the top. [tomshardware.com]"

      You're right about the networking and most of the rest. I'd love to have this as a box in front of my TV, using only USB, powered firewire, 100Mbps networking, and DVI/Svideo.
    • Any one have a good reccomendation for a super-mini that can boot with LinuxBIOS so it doesn't need a HD or CD drive, but does have ethernet and USB?

      Try VIA's mini-ITX offering. $99 for board and CPU, fanless, and supports a DoC. I've had no luck booting it with any flavor of Linux, but many others have. I'm a Linux n00b, so no surprise there.

      A good site with details, etc.: Mini-ITX [mini-itx.com] It doesn't appear to have any affiliation with VIA, and has LOTS of project details. Firewalls, servers, LAN party PCs, etc.
  • This is the same thing as the Cappucino PC... FWIW, we recently bought one and it works great as a low-end web server...
    • Not quite. The Cappucino uP has a Celeron and can only go up to 1300 MHz. This one can use up to a P4 2400 MHz. Also, the Cappucino's ports are scattered about three sides of the box. This has all of the ports in the back - a major win. Finally, the Cappie doesn't have any PCMCIA slots.

      The downside? The Jadetec seems to be a couple inches longer, wider, and thicker (the article doesn't actually have stats - a surprising oversight). The Cappie's also lighter and a lot less expensive (I found someone to configure me one with a 1200 MHz Celeron, a 40 Gb HD, 512 Mb of RAM, and a DVD for only $950 bucks (shipping included).

      Thanks... I'll still keep my Cappie.

  • Shuttles are great though! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by T-Kir ( 597145 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:36PM (#4438459) Homepage

    A friend of mine works in the Digital Video business, and I was telling him about the shuttle systems. A couple of days later he told me that his workplace were very interested in one (esp. when I updated him with the integrated monitor [slashdot.org]).

    The reason they were so interested is that they have to take a laptop and docking bay with PCI adaptors so they can show customers any demos, yet with the Shuttle they're able to completely package the system and it works a charm. The bean counters were even more surprised at the cost of the system, they thought $2500, but it only cost £330 for the shuttle and the rest of the bits were already on site (although they are still sorting the Xenarc version).

    Although with the size of the Jadetec, I doubt they'd be able to fit in the custom PCI cards, pity!

  • Really. I'd love to replace my present systems with smaller ones such as these and even ad a few more, since I'll have the room. But, my concern is noise. With a P4/2400 this baby will get hot. That means that it's probably going to have a couple of those 1 inch high-speed fans that typically howl like a jet engine.

    What I really want is small like this with a similar processor but, no fans. As in silent. the I really could imagine the beowolf cluster (shaddap trolls). Yeah, I know that I could build such a beast and water cool it but, that's a bit too hacked up for me. Just don't have the balls to run a hacked up water cooled cluster.
    • I read about this a month ago in at maximumpc.com. They mentioned that it was really quite cool, with the agp slot and everything, and is really quite stable. They also mentioned that it was very quiet do to a heat pipe for the processor. So there is a dedicated heat pipe assembly already installed for you to use with your 2.4gig proc. I wasn't able to connect to read the article on Tom's but I really doubt they didn't mention that.

  • It's just a Mocha P4 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Wonko42 ( 29194 ) <(ryan+slashdot) (at) (wonko.com)> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:45PM (#4438478) Homepage
    This is just a rebranded (and uglified) Mocha P4, which was reported on previously right here [slashdot.org].
  • Not to be nitpicky, but it's a pet peeve of mine: Is it smaller than the miniPC, as the title claims, or is it the smallest since the miniPC, as the body states?

    The two don't mean the same thing. If something is the best thing since sliced bread, then sliced bread is still better.

  • Need a firewall? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jimbobborg ( 128330 )
    Here you go! Two nics, smaller than a PIX or other rackmount nonsense, and you're good to go.

  • No power required? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by A non moose cow ( 610391 ) <slashdot@rilo.org> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @05:59PM (#4438521) Journal
    I couldn't help but notice that this thing has no internal source of power. Are they not showing us the cubic foot wall wort that goes with it?

  • Great for if your server is colocated! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rnd() ( 118781 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @06:02PM (#4438529) Homepage
    Step 1: Stack 5 or 6 of these into a tall ATX case.

    Step 2: Put an ethernet switch inside the case and connect ethernet cables.

    Step 3: Put a power-strip inside the case and plug in all hardware.

    Step 4: Install one or two case fans in the ATX case.

    Step 5: Bring the contraption to your local colocation provider and plug it in.

    Step 6: Enjoy the fact that you have 5 or 6 colocated servers for the price of one!

  • shuttle (Score:3, Informative)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asvNO@SPAMivoss.com> on Saturday October 12, 2002 @06:47PM (#4438643) Homepage Journal
    The shuttle mini-pc's are a better option because their performance is in-line with a typical pc. The biggest advantage with the newest pentium base shuttle, is that they have an AGP port [shuttleonline.com] so it makes it a viable option for LAN party folks, since they can stick a radeon 9700 in there.

  • From the article (Score:3, Insightful)

    by giminy ( 94188 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @06:54PM (#4438655) Homepage Journal
    The current version is equipped with AGP graphics that will even sway 3D-game fans.

    and later...

    Not for suitable for 3D games: The built-in SIS graphics

    The following benchmarks show that the Micro PC doesn't do well running 3D games. But that's not too surprising, since this PC was not designed as a gaming machine.

    Evidently the editors fell asleep?

  • Where's the space? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Bartab ( 233395 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:03PM (#4438672)
    One solitary 2.5" drive, which guarantees slower speeds than desktop, higher price, and general lack of space (I use 200+gig on my main machine)

    I can't see value for this in langamers (of which I will admit, I am not) because of the lack of module replacement and overclocking. Lacking either an AGP or PCI it doesn't even take the place of business on-site demos that require such things - the laptops will still be preferable.

    Of course, I look across the room at two 18" tall towers, the second case I recently purchased -because- it was so roomy. I find small machines too annoying to work on.

  • These small things are OK, but... (Score:3, Informative)

    by foo fighter ( 151863 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:04PM (#4438674) Homepage
    I'm a big fan of Micro ATX.

    Small and unobtrusive, but with enough expansion to replace integrated components.

    I really don't understand why there aren't more Micro ATX mobos and cases available to the general public.

  • No Fans (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dgp ( 11045 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:33PM (#4438734) Journal
    The main thing im looking for is a PC of this size that requires NO FANs. Go ahead, slow it down to 700mhz or less. Thats plenty of speed to run a head-less http, ssh, mail, ftp server. Ive got a Pentium class 166 that is doing everything I need without making a sound and I love it! Its getting a little old and Im looking for a no-fan PC (Including no cpu fan). By the way, the Seagate Barracuda IV IDE drives are extremely quiet. Its the only moving part in my system.

    • Re:No Fans (Score:3, Informative)

      by kjr71 ( 127862 )
      Hi,

      anyone interested in a desktop workstation with no fans might want to check out this german machine: http://www.signumdata.de/english/futureclient.htm [signumdata.de]

      2.2 Ghz P4, no fans at all - not even in the power supply. It's not ultra small, but still it looks very sweet...

    • Slow it down if you must, but wouldn't it be easy enough to integrate a heat pipe and have a warm case? With enough surface area on a case, I would think that it would be possible.

    • Amen (Score:3, Informative)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 )
      I've been looking for this for a while.

      The problem is that there's been a sense of "damn the noise and heat, give me speed" among PC users for too long, and it's really caused a distortion in the market. Hot, noisy systems that run 50% faster.

      The Barracudas are nice, but here are a couple of other thoughts:

      Current x86 processors pretty much suck from a heat perspective. You can't really get below 40 watts. I believe there's still a fanless Cyrix processor in production, but it's kind of slow. You might consider a PPC box from Apple.

      There are "quiet hard drive" cases. Unfortunately, they generally can't cope with the ventilation demands of 7200RPM drives -- another nice reason to get the Barracudas, which run cool. With 5400 RPM drives, though, you can use these.

      There are cases designed to reduce noise. Haven't tried these. Also, haven't tried "silence mods" by adding sound-absorbing material like cork to the inside walls.

      There are "quiet power supplies". Haven't tried these either...think they mostly just put a nicer fan in.

      Stick with large, low-RPM fans. They're quieter. There are also a few expensive fans designed to be really, really quiet.

      I miss my (literally silent) Mac Plus.
    • The main thing im looking for is a PC of this size that requires NO FANs. Go ahead, slow it down to 700mhz or less. Thats plenty of speed to run a head-less http, ssh, mail, ftp server

      Try VIA's mini-ITX offering. $99 for board and CPU, the 500 MHz version is fanless, and supports a Disk-on-Chip. I've had no luck booting it with any flavor of Linux, but many others have. I'm a Linux n00b, so no surprise there.

      A good site with details, etc.: Mini-ITX [mini-itx.com] It doesn't appear to have any affiliation with VIA, and has LOTS of project details. Firewalls, servers, LAN party PCs, etc.

  • real niche product (Score:3, Insightful)

    by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:47PM (#4438756)
    For people who want a small, quiet PC for their desktop, I think they need to put it into a nicer-looking case and make it quieter (I didn't see anything in the review about noise so I assume it's not particularly quiet). Also, something like a DeskNote (search on Google)--a laptop form factor with desktop components--is cheap and space saving. For gamers, it really needs a PCI+AGP slot so that they can put in their favorite graphics cards. For lab equipment and other uses, you probably don't need such a high-end processor--a min-ITX board is cheaper, quieter, and generates less heat. Overall, I think this is a real niche product. But it shows that more small PCs are on the horizon.

  • ...But Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by RevAaron ( 125240 )
    Smaller is cooler, yes. But what use is a PC like this? It's small in size, but without the benefit that most computers that are small bring- mobility. The MicroPC provides portability, but in practice, not more than a laptop (with or without a head!). So why would one want to spend the extra money or suffer the limitations? The size of this thing could be kind of useful if it could be "converted" into a full laptop or desktop (with PCI, AGP slots and HD bays) ala the OQO [oqo.com] or MCC [antelopetech.com]. But it's not. It's not been designed to accept a battery and a small touchscreen-endowed display, to make it into a bulky mobile computer for when a full-speed computer is needed (there are situations when this could be needed). but nope- it's just a small version of a regular computer. Whoooop-de-doo!

    Sure, given the choice, I'd rather have a small, out of the way computer rather than a big noisey PC desktop. Er, well, I have had that choice, and I went with the iBook. :P But given the choice between something even smaller for the same price and capabilities, I'd take the small one. But what the MiniPC worthwhile?

    Why is it that Slashdot people and Wintel nerds often love these things, but rail against something like an iMac or eMac? A MicroPC has all the drawbacks of an all-in-one design and then some.- with the exception of a built-in monitor (on most [all?] iMacs and eMac models, the built-in can be bypassed or use as a second monitor).

    There has to be folks out there on /. that are thinking "WOW! I must have one!" I'm interested in your opinion- what draws you too this? To look cool at LAN parties or to brag to those on IRC? I'm seriously curious- any insight would be great.
    • The monitor is a pretty big exception. Tell me, do *you* have room on your desk for both an i/eMac and another monitor?
      • Well, I do. But even if I had the money to buy a new iMac, I can't say I'd desire a new monitor to replace or supplement the 17" screen w/ a 1280x1024 (?) res- I'm fine with 1024x768 and can't say I've ever desired much more. Sure, it'd be nice, but for what I do and the way I work, it's fine. That said, I don't have problems working on a 480x320 screen. It's all about how well designed the apps are, and the apps I use work well in a small screen space. :P
  • I like the size of those sort of things. I bought a mac laptop. It is nice, but a desktop wouldn't be too bad, just not one of that towers. Like a few other posts I don't think that towers are that good anymore. I am thinking on getting an xbox beast so my computer won't be a gaming machine (to save me money :-) So I guess what I am saying... APPLE PLEASE BRING BACK THE CUBE! So many others copied it anyways so why not?
  • A pc for blind people with no hands who want to pay an extra 1K for a laptop type computer without that nagging screen or keyboard to get in the way.

    Seriouslly, the cd drive, memory, HD are all laptop components....the price is $2000 -- sans screen and keyboard. What market are they shooting for here?

  • Aimed at what market really? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @07:57PM (#4438783) Journal

    Seriously, all products (used) to be aimed at a market. Since I live in a rather small and boring town, I might be wrong but isn't targetting a market essential for a product to get off the ground? Who are these people aiming for? Apparently no companies, who in their right mind would pay the (probably) insane ammount of money required for that when you can get an otherwise fine workstation for about 40% of the price and onboard graphics is the fastest way to scare away any potential gamers. Video and graphics editing people will still prefer the Mac for their job and because of horrible expandibility it won't be of any use in the CAD/CAM area either.

    So what niche is JadeTec trying to fill here? Or are they going for the "I want to have something more espensive then the guy in the next cubicle/office" idea to sell their Micro-PC?

    • This product is most likely aimed at the market of people trying to integrate their computer into their entertainment center. Those people with 52 inch HDTV's. I mean really I would love to have something like this just dedicated to surfing the net on a 52" HDTV and then watch DVD's off the same little box. Not to mention You would then be able to play mp3's off of it networked to another computer that has vast more storage for MP3's. Plus then you could easily watch home videos from the new USB 2.0 MiniDV camcorder or whatever. Its for people who want all these toys. I personally have none of them because of lack of need (I would want some of them) and lack of wanting to spend the cash. You're correct with all the people you list not wanting something like this. Of course you're not gonna do digital editing on it or CAD/CAM.. You get a Freakin' workstation made for that not something mini. If you're looking at this stuff you're definately not some developer you're an end user who wants a nice quaint compact piece to fit into the entertainment center. Something thats unobtrousive and sleek. I personally wish I had one of these thing built into my coffee table or breakfast nook at home with a nice flat panel monitor and a One-handed keyboard ;).. so I could surf the net while getting breakfast or cooking or something like that. Thats just my 2 cents.. (ok maybe a little more than 2 cents)
  • They had a big todo about the fact that the finish on the micro PC wasn't matte black. Matte black is a standard finish for a laptop, but I don't see why it should be standard for a home box -- or even why it should be standard at all.

    If anything, I'd like to see this thing come out in glossy designer colors... Black, white, blue, phychadelic.....

    When you walk away from the standard form factor, why not also walk away from the standard color schemes, too?

  • ENLARGE YOU PC!!!!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by wirelessbuzzers ( 552513 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @08:19PM (#4438833)
    GAIN 3-4 INCHES GUARANTEED! OUR ONLINE PHARMACY IS OPEN 24-7!!!!

    sigh, I need to get some sleep. Still, one wonders what women will think when you show off your micro PC to them...
  • Size is weight and weight is money. A large organization could save bundles of cash on the shipping alone for large quantities of these units. Reduced warehouse costs and fewer people to manage them. Moreover smaller packages means fewer damaged units, fewer parts to track, fewer configuration problems caused by fewer upgrades and fewer field staff to manage what is effectively a closed box.

  • Small? (Score:2, Informative)

    by woogieoogieboogie ( 598162 )
    That is not small. At 3.5 pounds, it is a monster. Try this http://www.upont.com/tx3.asp at a sleek 1.9 pounds. Get it from newegg http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=m anufactory&catalog=309&manufactory=1281&DEPA=1&sor tby=14&order=1 for $635.

  • Sooooo....... (Score:4, Funny)

    by brad3378 ( 155304 ) on Saturday October 12, 2002 @10:24PM (#4439274)
    Is that a computer in your pocket
    or are you just happy to see me?
  • Does anyone remember when the 'Micro' PC was as big as the Maxi shown?
  • I would love to see one of these with a translucent case. That way I could spray paint it to the colour of my liking - the finish always looks better if you spray the inside of transparent plastic.

  • I'm sick of PCs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Francis Avila ( 603590 ) on Sunday October 13, 2002 @01:59PM (#4441483)
    I'm sick of PCs.
    I look at a PC and what do I see? Decades of short-sighted design, kludges, needless complexity, and backward compatability.

    Why? Because it's cheap? Because it's what we've always done? Is that all?

    I say throw off the x86 architecture--we've long sinced reached its esthetic limitations. It's ugly; it's hot; it's loud; it has bus after redundant bus; it has a cpu architecture that's wheezing; it has connectors up the wazoo; and don't even get me started on the abomination that is the PC bios!

    I want something simple, elegant, and quiet; something that doesn't have to answer to the kuckelheaded profit motives of twenty years of design revisions. Something that doesn't give kernel hackers cold sweats when they think of all the chaotic evil hiding in that arch just waiting to be unleashed!

    I want the BeOS of hardware!

    Designing a PC today like remodeling an abandoned house. Who cares then if you've replaced the tile in the kitchen if the pipes are wrapped in duct tape? (Oh. And the house is haunted, too.)

    Note, however, that I still prefer cheap hardware to good hardware. Which, um, I suppose is the problem....

    That said, however, surely someone can design an architecture using existing technologies that doesn't have to answer to ISA madness (or equivalent) yet is still an open standard? I mean, can't someone take a bunch of standard buses (PCI, IDE, USB, etc) and design something sensible to connect them to? Am I really so stupid about what's involved? (Entirely possible)

    I just find it very hard to believe that the PC is really the best one can do.
    --
    Francis Avila

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