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Hardware

New Small Form Factor PC Reviewed 185

Posted by CowboyNeal from the new-ideas-about-sneakernet dept.
Beau Mundt writes "You guys haven't touched on the small form factor PCs in a while, thought you would be interested in this review of a Lex System SFF PC. Its arguably the tiniest PC around and could be used for many cool things like a Linux gateway, a wireless workstation, or just a silent small foot print system. The other neat thing is the reviewer stuffs a P3 1.26 and a Radeon 7500 into the system. Perfect for bringing to LANs!"
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New Small Form Factor PC Reviewed More

New Small Form Factor PC Reviewed

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  • Neat. But I'm not impressed until I can fit a 2ghz machine into my wallet. Which probably won't happend anytime soon, which is good because by the time 2ghz machines are that small they should be pretty cheap... I mean, so I can afford to sit down with the wallet in my back pocket ;).
  • They showed a bunch of pictures of this one- quite a bit smaller compared to other small form factor PCs - but how big are these compared to your average box?
  • this definitely has potential in the right place, the right place IMO being a wiring cupboard or somewhere else where space is at a real premium. I wouldn't use it as a standard desktop, purely because if you have space for a monitor you have space for a slightly larger unit (I'd hope).

    I wouldn't say the savings of a few inches are enough to make me use a laptop hard drive and one of those crappy 'blade' (or whatever) CD roms that you can't just swap out/upgrade/yada yada.

    But then again, I like my PC's to have lots of growth space inside, YMMV.
    • What about using as a cheap desktop rollout for PXES [sourceforge.net] or LTSP [ltsp.org]?
      Keep making it smaller! When it gets down to a size and cost that I can buy three or more for the cost of one PC, I'll spend the extra money on servers and TFT's. That's where my end users will appreciate it!
      These may be the key to roll out Linux in the Enterprise!
  • In the example of a Linux gateway or wireless workstation, there is a better solution. Buy a 1U rack mount case (they can be had for under $150 with a 300w power supply). They accept standard ATX motherboards and many have removable drives.

    With this method, you can use any off-the-shelf parts to repair the system.

    This is the method I use for a webserver and Linux firewall. I have both mounted (among other things) in a old telecom cabinet. Works like a charm.
    • Interesting.

      Even with a PCI riser card, how can you fit more than one PCI card in?

      Are there AGP riser cards?
      • Are there AGP riser cards?

        Yes. You can get one at Fry's for about $65, either a 1 or 2 inch and with left or right 90 degree angles. Look in the PCB prototyping section. They also have similar PCI risers. I haven't tried them, so I don't know if they have a detrimental effect on stability. Anyone know?

        Also, does anyone know where to get an AGP riser card on line or near OKC? I am 200 miles from the nearest Fry's (I stopped by the Dallas store to see if they carried the part after Quakecon, but didn't buy it then because I figured I could find one on Ebay for $10... then couldn't)
  • [austin powers] It's not the size, man, it's how you use it! [/austin powers]
  • it [sudhian.com] does not seem like a review at all. Instead, it is a full load of marketing words without any neutral statements. No data to base decisions on. I have seen more neutral marketing brochures.

    • Re:Interesting review (Score:5, Informative)

      by BusterB ( 10791 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:09AM (#4205645)
      Are you sure? I saw many negative points:

      "The biggest sacrifice is the use of a 2.5" laptop hard drive. In our particular unit it was an IBM drive spinning at 4500rpm. The use of 2.5" drives keeps the heat, noise and size down however at the same time it also raises the costs and hurts performance."

      "One problem with this particular setup is a non back panel case design. Meaning that the case is designed for this particular motherboard (and the two others Lex makes) and those boards only."

      "From the looks of the above picture, it looks as if a 3.5" hard drive could be mounted. Unfortuately however, underneath the 2.5" drive is the internal connections for the external power supply."

      "In our tests of the PCI riser we ran into a few issues."

      "Depending on where you buy, you will likely have to buy a 2.5" hard drive and a slim line CD rom drive. These can be annoying additional costs on hard to come by parts."

      The reviewer showed the benefits and limitations equally.
    • Reviews aren't always about Quake 3 FPS or multimedia benchmarks. I agree that he has no numbers and that's not a great thing, but he does offer a great look inside the smallest case out there. The review adequately covers the pluses and minuses of the product and details the hardware they tried, failed, and finally triumphed with. Ok, so it's not Tom's Hardware, it's still a decent overview of a new product from a non-biased source.

    • >I have seen more neutral marketing brochures.

      I have to suck my words back a bit. I based the comment only on the content of the first page of the review, which is overly positive. Because of that I did not even bother browsing forward thinking that the same flattering story continues. Now that I did, it is, actually a rather good review.

      My apologies for badmouthing based on partial facts. :)

    • I especially like the ad for the Shuttle SS51 that's displayed right next to the review...

      check it out [geocities.com]

      Todd

  • Maybe this one has a big volume but fits better in hidden places ; )
    http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_info.php?c ategory=128&products_id=1628&

  • External Power Supply (Score:3, Interesting)

    by checkyoulater ( 246565 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:03AM (#4205625) Journal
    Why isn't this used more often? It would be the first step to the ultimate silent pc. Is there any reason why an external power supply doesn't make sense for all desktops? I realize that many of them use the fans for heat exhaust, but with a well-placed rear fan, this problem is negated.
    • with a well placed rear fan, comes well placed rear fan noise, so where's the saving? Although in principle, I do agree that external PSUs have their place, especially if they have connections at both ends (psu and mobo). That way, you can store all your PSU's in one location, along with a couple of spares, and if one fries, just unplug and move to another one.

      Better still, RAID PSU's.....

      • Re:But.... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by ray-auch ( 454705 )
        better still, build the psu into ups, always bugs me that the ups sits there converting it's output to AC and conditioning it, when it then gets turned straight back into low volts DC at the PSU at the other end of the power cord. Most modern home/office peripherals, and with a TFT even the monitor, also want DC.

        of course you don't want a combined ups/psu for carrying to a lan party with cff case - weight wise they aint easily portable :-)

      • Re:But.... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by egghat ( 73643 )
        1.) External means you can put it on the floor. So it's more quiet, simply because it's further away. Remember that there is no reason to put a small PC on the floor instead of putting it on your desk where it should be.

        2.) You have a problem with a quiet PC: You need a lot of air to cool it. A lot of air is needed to cool the PSU itself. If you put the PSU outside of the box, you get the chance to cool both parts passivly. (The PSU-cube has 5 sides to spread the heat when outside, but only one if placed inside the box).

        Bye egghat.
      • This can at least save me an inverter if I want to put a PC in a car - just some DC/DC transformer would do. That's a BIG save in noise, heat and energy...
    • Ever used a Commodore 64? This system and it's cousins are pretty much the last time I know of a major computing vendor making an external power source. I don't remember how much power the thing actually required to run. Maybe they need a fan in the power supply to keep it cool because it's putting out more power? Kinda guessing there, don't have one in front of me. IMO, you have the right idea. If one used external power supplies you should do it for reasons other than "saving space". It's pretty obnoxious when every time you need to move the desk the machine is on you end up tagging the power supply and need to finagle it a bit. Viewed this story in lynx/console so I'm not sure how big their power supply is.
      • This system and it's cousins are pretty much the last time I know of a major computing vendor making an external power source.

        What about Apple and the PowerMac G4 Cube? I laughed the first time I saw the huge, honking external power supply on that puppy.

        "We fit a supercomputer in 6 inches square. Yeah, and you did it by moving all the parts outside the box!"
      • Actually, the Apple Cube used an external power supply. To me at least I think it's too bad the PC looks so ugly. Why beige? Make it black and it'll blend into the shadows. Small niggling complaint, but something the target market would probably complain about.
    • Silent PC's have been on the market for a while. I bought a few of them 3 years ago. There were some that just ran Windows CE that booted right into a Metaframe client, and a few running Linux ( I forget which distro ) that had a ICA client but also had a local desktop. The machines had no moving parts and were totaly silent.

      They used a PCMCIA memory card for both permemant storage and RAM. Their cases were designed to allow heated air to escape out the top drawing cooler air form the bottom thus using natural conduction to do the work of the fan. I think they used a cyrix processor.

      I used the CE boxes for admin staff that only used office apps (Word and Excell) from a Metaframe server. The Linux boxes were from people who needed more than casual access to the web (graphics over metaframe is not a great idea).

      Anyway, I have been trying to remember the name of the companies I bought from while I have been typing this, but I can't. I have changed jobs and really had not thought about them for a long time. I could check my records when I get home if anybody really cares ( and nobody has replied with it by then.) I am pretty sure that WYSE makes them too.

  • here [sudhian.com]

  • Not very good. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bLanark ( 123342 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:05AM (#4205631)
    I like the Shuttle boxes, because you can stuff standard parts in them, standard drives and the likes.

    This however, has too many limitations to be of use to me. Sure, you can attach a lot of USB peripherals (Is it USB 2? I didn't see that in the review), but if you want a PC small enough to lug around, then you don't want to lug three other boxes (all possibly with their own PSUs!).

    Where is this going? Mobile computing is best served with a laptop, IMHO. The costs for good performance are high, enough so to put off LAN partiers on a budget.

    These boxes fill that niche, but I think that this one in particular is crippled too much by the laptop hard drive, slimline CD, less expansion, etc.

    If you want an appliance at home, this is no good either. Server? At the moment the max 2.5" HDD is 60 Gigs, I think. and if the machine breaks, you can't just buy another PSU, for example, and slot it in the box - it's all non-standard. Buy a proper server and shove it in a closet, or quieten it down with custom fans and heatsinks.

    Other appliances? There are cheaper custom-built mp3 streamers, DVD-recording video recorders, and so on available.

    This thing is a no-no, in my opinion.
    • Where is this going? Mobile computing is best served with a laptop, IMHO. The costs for good performance are high ...

      Today there is a high price premium for laptops. I'd hope that one outcome of products like this would be to have a larger pool of generic small components like slimline CD/DVDs, ITX and MicroATX mobos, heat pipe cooling, and power supplies in interesting form factors.

      A generic-component solution will never reach the design integration level of a custom notebook design, but notebooks have limits of their own. Having a small display attached to a cramped keyboard by a hinge is great for portability but sucks for ergonomics.
    • The trouble is, that the niche between laptop and desktop is not really addressed. A lot of people (me too), would like a protable system, but do not need mobile computing. We're therefore reluctant to shell out big bucks, and sacrifice performance for a property we don't need.

      Say I have a screen and keyboard in the office, and at home. I could pay â2500 for a top-end laptop with limited performance, or â1500 for a portable which screams. The problem, however is that the portable is not available.....yet.
    • I think there's a new market emerging that you haven't considered. Computing in your car. Albeit small, but there are a lot of enthusiasts persuing "dashboard pc's" out there. I'm [dashpc.com] one of them.

    • I can think of many uses for such small form factorPCs. In some industrial enviorments it woul dbe good to have such a small form factor as control rooms tend to be very full with so many other consoles the last thing anyone needs is a big honkin PC in there.

      Personally I see a lot of potential for Car and boat applications.

      Have a small formfactor PC like this mounted in the trunk or under the seat. Hook it to a touchscreen LCD on the dash. With all the multiple plugs on the back one of these MIniComputers could handle multiple tasks.

      MP3s
      DVD playback
      GPS (for a lot cheaper than other systems)
      Games
      Car-Computer interface (for racers and info addicts, interface the cars ECM to the mini computer, normally done through a serial port and you can monitor the cars preformance on the LCD)
      Also for racers, independant fuel managment.
      Portalable wireless lan (Lan parties where ever you happen to be, also great for war driving)
      Hook the computer up to multiple cameras and you can have a log of all drviing activites (parents would love this one)
      On a boat or Cars with CBs - Scan and record CB and raido conversations, this could also work with the standard FM or XM radio (hear a song you like hit record on the screen and it will be saved as an MP3 for later playback)
      You could even use the computer to be a lockout point for your alarm system. First you have to de-activate the alarm and then enter a password to get the car to start)

      Im sure there are many other things I could use one of these for. Hmm maybe this will be my winter project.

      The only question now, what OS should I use??

  • Mini PC (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I thinking that with a 12v power supply, these
    things would make one hell of a Car PC.
    Just Think MP3/CD/Maping programs all load
    and ready to go. Since it even has room for
    a PCI card, you could even use it as an advanced
    NET STUMBLING device with a PCI To PCMCIA Card.

  • not quite new (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ellyssian ( 606668 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:09AM (#4205644)
    Those cases have been around a while. I built quite a few systems with them when working for a small-time pc manufacturer 6-7 years ago. Guts may have changed somewhat, but the layout is identical. Hopefully they don't overheat as much as they used to.
  • Don't go anywhere in the text region with your mouse or else the thing turns maroon! Cross compatiwha?

    JOhn

  • Shuttle SS40 Review from Tomshardware (Score:3, Informative)

    by Oscar26 ( 126520 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:15AM (#4205667)
    Shuttle SS40 [tomshardware.com]
  • Gigabyte G-MAX Series [goroyalpc.com]

    The Good: CD-Rom Drive

    The Bad: Price ($200 USD)

  • Small & flat is good stuff... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by danamania ( 540950 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:19AM (#4205677)
    ...but it's taken a while for small boxies to make a return. One of my favourites (an obsession, even) are my Quadra 605s [danamania.com]. Only marginally larger than the Lex reviewed, and about 8 years older.

    One big bonus of the SFF pizzaboxes is the incredible ease of -getting- to components. All placed on one layer, there's no tangling of cables, or need to remove one major component to reach the others.

    A pretty decent structure for a box that doesn't need to be constantly expanded/changed.

    a grrl & her server [danamania.com]
    • Wish they would have shown this with the CD-ROM drive in it and a PCI card..Looking at where the PCI slot on the back is and the CD-ROM slot is on the front it looks like any card you put in the expansion slot is gonna hit the CD-ROM drive.
    • Someone who appreciates the pizza-box design! :-) The LCIII and LC470 were the same - pop two tabs on the back & the whole top and front of the system is removed. Three more seconds & the HD, CD-ROM and DRAM are out. Seriously cool .... when the Performa series came out, they lost the plot a bit but even then, you could pull a logic board without opening the case. Two screws & the thing slides out of the back of the computer.
      • ...and even the PSU & motherboard is all clipped into place. Not one screw in the entire case. Power supplies that go down to 28 watts and run all day quite happily. Apart from the "just because I can", that low-power usage is one of the bonuses of making one a web server.

        dana

        a grrl & her server [danamania.com]
  • It is interesting (and frustrating) how my focus changes every few years on how I want my complete computing enviiornment to be setup. I, like most people started with a single system and when that system became a bit slow at running new software (read games) I upgraded it.

    After several upgrades of various components I found that I had pretty much all the parts I needed to build a second PC. So I did. Now with two computers I HAD to network them. As family members aquired computers they were hooked into the (peer-to-peer) LAN as well to the point of needing a server which was built and added.

    As time went on some desktops were replaced by smaller and more portable laptops and even the desktops were replaced with smaller versions of desktops. But each machine had a specific purpose (server, gaming machine) or specific user.

    After leaving college (I am going to skip the college years as they are in a bit of a mental haze) and starting out on my own with little (no) money I found it more cost/space (small apartment) effective to have one super machine that could do everything.

    Several years later having paid off my debts and having purchased a larger place to live, I find that my ideal computing enviornment consists of 1 laptop, 1 desktop gaming machine and a gateway/server.

    But as soon as the manufacturers produce the super fast cpu/fastest graphics chip available/etc/etc with 3d holographic projecting graphics PC in a 3" cube form factor, I'll trade them all in!

  • What about S-Video Out? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cnelzie ( 451984 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:21AM (#4205683) Homepage

    I haven't seen one yet. So, I might be wrong and they might already be readily available.

    Here's the thing, I have a nice Sony WEGA Trinitron TV in the living room. I am also wiring the whole house for CAT-5. My plans include having a central "Media Server" to house all my music files.

    Next to the TV will sit a PC with a connection to the TV, the stereo and the home network. I like the idea of a small form-factor system, partly due to the low-cost associated with some of these designs. I would really like to see one with a built-in S-video port.

    -.-
    • The recently released "Mocha" cappuchino pc featers a less-fantastic (for games) video card but it got s-video out and a small form factor:
      http://www.cappuccinopc.com/mochap4.asp
    • A lot of mini-ITX motherboards have composite or S-Video out, however, they also have Macrovision, so you need to spend about the same price as the motherboard on a stabilizer box to remove this intentional crippling.

    • Re:What about S-Video Out? (Score:5, Informative)

      by renehollan ( 138013 ) <<ten.eriwraelc> <ta> <nallohr>> on Friday September 06, 2002 @10:04AM (#4206428) Homepage Journal
      I have a nice Sony WEGA Trinitron TV in the living room. I am also wiring the whole house for CAT-5. My plans include having a central "Media Server" to house all my music files.

      You and me both.

      Well, in my case it's a Sony HDTV-ready set (though still 4:3 'cause there's so little 16:9 HD stuff broadcast), I have wired the whole house with 2xCat5e and 2xRG6/U, and I too want a central media server, though for movies as well as music (I have about 160 GB of the latter, unompressed). Yes, I have the obligatory DirectTV system with 18"x24" dish and twin dual LNBs, 5x8 multiswitch at the headend, and a terrestrial HD/SD/analog antenna.

      I've looked at GCT Allwell's [allwell.com.tw] iDVD3036 [allwell.com.tw] for a local quiet thin client for an application similar to yours, but there are a few problems, not the least of which is the poor GNU/Linux support for the Sigma Designs em8400 H/W MPEG2 decoder and CyberPro 5005 graphics chip. A proprietary library for the em8400 is available, as well as proprietary X drivers for the CyberPro, but the latter doesn't handle digital overlays and alphablending very well. Register-level documentation is available for both chips, but I lack sufficient video graphics card architecture knowledge to make much sense of it without some kind of tutorial context. About the only nice thing about that combo is the use of digital CCIR601 overlay ports on the CyberPro for the output of the em8400 (and a TV tuner) -- this avoids loss of sharpness due to a more common analog overlay.

      Now, what makes this system interesting, is the use of more standard video and the availabiliy of a PCI slot: one could drop a Sigma Designs Netstream 2k in there, and analog overlay the X output. You also get stock composite, svideo, and component outputs from the em8400 directly, so, using multiple inputs on the TV, and an SVGA to svideo converter, go between displaying an X display with a scaled PIP live video image and a full-screen video image, with better resolution (or just get a TV with SVGA-in).

      Of course, replacing the slim-line CD drive with a DVD drive, and swapping out the HDD for a DOC would probably be called for.

      This leaves the issue of streaming data to the box: does it sport on-board 100 Mb/s ethernet?

  • I'd love an Nforce chipset based Athlon miniPC with matching 15" LCD that could be thrown in a duffel bag. Perfect for lan parties!
    • I'd love an Nforce chipset based Athlon miniPC with matching 15" LCD that could be thrown in a duffel bag.

      This is what I'm waiting for too - I understood that Shuttle were suppoed to be bringing out an Athlon version of their recent P4 release.

      Not that I'm a platform fan as such - I don't mind about the Intel/Athlon wars and I'm not a PC gamer either so the nForce graphics are just nice to have. However, the current Shuttle P4 offering won't run Linux, whereas an nForce-based machine ought to be fine.

      At least, so I believe. Anyone know better?

      Cheers,
      Ian

    • Get a laptop and a USB mouse for aiming, and frag away.
  • Research "As mentioned above, the Lex Thin-800E is the smallest case we have ever looked at." Here is one for the author to look at that is smaller than the one they reviewed: http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/Sumi/Sumi.html
  • See the subject and sing it to the tune of that annoying dell "dude".

    It's one thing to see cool gadgets and newer stuff. It's another to be bothered with a review of something that's just rudimentary.

    Sa-la-vee and I can already feel the heat from your flames.
  • While the reviewed was a cute little slimline case, check out this: http://www.shuttleonline.com/spec.php3?model=ss51 Aluminum case, 1 pci, 1 agp slot....very nice. M

  • VIA is a bit smaller. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dabel ( 573340 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:40AM (#4205750) Homepage
    You said arguably the smallest, and I'm gonna argue.

    First things first, the Lex system *is* neat because of the socket 370, but it edges out the Via Eden platform [via.com.tw] in one dimension by 10mm. Doesn't sound like a lot, unless you're making some really cool custom pc's. [mini-itx.com]

    In fact, I've built my own router (running Linux of course) in a 1/10th scale Celica using the VIA. 10mm more in either dimension and it wouldn't have fit. In fact, it looks [viaarena.com] just like [mini-itx.com] the two projects I just now linked.

    The via comes in 500 and 866 mhz flavors, and pulls VERY little power resulting in a low heat motherboard/processor solution. There's so little heat, they don't even put a fan on the processor, which is great when you have your 1/10th scale Celica routing your dsl in your living room where you want to hear other people and/or the tv instead of the computer.

    So for those needing those extra mhz, the lex looks like a good solution. But for a Linux gateway/router and a couple other applications, the slower C3's do just fine, but pull less power and have the possibility of going completely fan free (if you can find a fan-free powersupply).
  • A PC case that has the same form-factor as the rest of my HIFI seperates system. Ideally something that looks indistinguishable from a DVD player, so I can stick it in the rack.

    I'm sure that the mobo's etc used in modern desktops could be used to give it a decent spec, my TV would make a adequate Monitor for the sorts of uses I have in mind; games/div-x/MP3 Playing, DIgital image viewing etc.. given a front-pane USB/Firewire and cordless mouse/keyboard etc..

    I'm sure there is a market for a case like this, but have never seen one outside of a one-off special made by a decent modder (which I could do, but probably rather badly..)
  • "The Lex case ships with an external power supply which allows the PC to be as small as it is, while also cutting out a major noise factor in the PC."

    Isn't this kind of cheating. I've got a PC the size of a cable. It's just got this external power supply and mother board and cdrom and floppy....

    And it's not like the case was smaller than say, a laptop. I don't get what's the big deal. If I want small, I'd go with a laptop. If I want a desktop, I want it big enough to add stuff, and not to have extra parts like a power supply to drag around.
  • Sounds like potential competition for /.'s sponsor, Cappucino!

  • I'll stick with the Cubid 2677 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SwellJoe ( 100612 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:47AM (#4205779) Homepage
    We've been prototyping with the Eden platform in the Cubid 2677 chassis (no, 'Cubid' is not a mispelling), and really like them a lot. We could come up with a few nits about the chassis, but the platform itself is fabulous and runs Linux wonderfully.

    With the 533MHz CPU, it needs no CPU fan, and is still plenty zippy for all of your favorite gateway tasks--we use them for web caching, DHCP, DNS caching, masquerading, NATting, routing micro-uber-boxes. Even with all of those services running, these little boxes will push a T1 line chock full of goodness with plenty of power to spare. We'd like it to be even smaller, of course, but I don't think the Lex box in question is the right way for us because we don't want a big hot Intel CPU in there.

    We're popping an Intel dual NIC into the PCI slot for the firewall enhanced version (that's three NICs total), giving a nice Internal/DMZ/External separation in a very nice little low-power package.

    Anyway, I'm enjoying the relative quiet of these boxes so much, that I'm considering getting an 800MHz one for my desktop machine. All of my real work goes on in the machine closet anyway, so I might as well have some peace, quiet, and an easily moveable machine out here in the civilized part of the office.

  • Is Slashdot wonky? Right now this story comes up as having been posted by CowboyNeal -- I can't remember ever seeing him as an author before. Except now a bunch of recent stories are also CowboyNeal posted. Am I losing my mind or is the slashcode on the fritz?

    jf
    • "a bunch of recent stories are also CowboyNeal posted. Am I losing my mind or is the slashcode on the fritz?"

      No... CowboyNeal is just posting stories is all. :)

      It's been known to happen [slashdot.org].


    • CowboyNeal used to post stuff, and now he's back. This is possibly the best move Slashdot has ever made. Drop him from the stupid polls and let him show his overall coolness once again.

  • Arguably the tiniest PC around? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ctrl-Z ( 28806 ) <(tim) (at) (timcoleman.com)> on Friday September 06, 2002 @07:48AM (#4205783) Homepage Journal

    Just for interest's sake, I took a look at the site. It says that the dimensions of this thing are 6.2cm x 27.2 cm x 25.2 cm.

    Now, if you look at the Cappuccino TX-3 [thinkgeek.com], you see that it has dimensions 5.63 cm x 14.38 cm x 15 cm. That seems quite a bit smaller to me. So, I would find the claim that this is the tiniest PC around arguable indeed.
  • Ok, I've been looking for a place that actually sells this case [the second from the bottom on page one] LIKE crazy (for MAMEing in front of a TV... two USB ports in the front is great!)

    Where, oh where, can I find this case? I've sorta been interested in the DIGN case [exoticpc.com] but there are no USB ports in the front and it's insanely expensive.... so anyone know where I can get the Cupid 2677 with USB?
    • This board looks a lot like the mini-itx form factor boards -- it uses a different chipset (I know there is a new one due... but I have mine already).

      Anyhow, take a look at the http://mini-itx.com/hardware/cases.asp [mini-itx.com] link. They have a few vendors for specific chassis, US, UK, etc... I'm carving one with an external ps for the dc->dc atx connector. Way easier to power this thing from my car if all I have to worry about is a good clean 12V DC feed then breadboarding my own ATX ps.
  • I've taken an interest in small PCs recently... and I'm sad to say this one again seems to pander to someone else's wish list. I'd like a small form factor PC to accepts a couple of standard size IDE H/Ds and CD/CRRW. I don't need video or a fast processor - should have Ethernet (for connectivity) and USB/serial/parallel (for peripherals) and run silently - i.e. without a fan.

    I'd give it wireless and broadband and a printer and voila, desktop priced resources available to my laptop. Am I the only one looking for this?
    • Yeah, I agree wholehartedly with your concern. I once purchased a generic "book PC" because I thought it was perfect for my crowded desk.

      But the damned thing was so loud that I couldn't stand it . Many "white box" generic PC's are awful in this regard.

      I later bought some HP e-PC's which turned out to be a lot quieter; in part because HP moved the power supply outside to a power brick.

      This Lex Thin-800E PC also uses an external power supply. Good. The CPU fan should be reasonably quiet under normal circumstances, provided they used a good quality (i.e., not the cheapest) fan.

      BTW, The PCI riser is a nice touch. The HP e-PC does not have one.
  • The best thing I noted was the power jack marked "12VDC". The native DC power feature and small size make this a cool platform for mobile MP3/OGG player, navigation system, sound processor, etc.
  • Yeah it's been what? All of 4 days since the latest article on the Cappuccino [slashdot.org]?

    and 42 days since the Shuttle SS51 XPC [slashdot.org]

    Is it time for /. to come up with a perpetually recurring topic category for small form factor cases and the other topics that seem to come up an average of once every two weeks?
  • Especially considering Monday's review http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/124523 8&mode=thread&tid=137 Lex = 6.2 (H) x 27.2 (W) x 25.2 (D) cm = 4274 cc Mocha = 198x161x62 mm = 1976 cc
  • That looks like it is still larger than (and not nearly as cool looking as) my good ol' SparcClassic case. For small PCs, nothing can beat the size and shape of the Classic in my opinion...

  • This PPC model is much smaller... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The BriQ

    http://www.totalimpact.com/briQ.html
  • http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/computing/5a98.shtm l

  • Not even in the running... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by johnw ( 3725 )
    > Its arguably the tiniest PC around ...for the smallest form factor. I have a PC on my desk which is 15cm x 15cm x 4.5cm. (About the footprint of a CD case, but taller.) They're readily available under a host of different names. See www.paysan.co.uk for one supplier.
  • /. Editors:

    When training your personal neural net blurb-generating subsystem, pls set maximize(reader.knowledge-gain/reader.time-expende d) as the primary fitness test.

    In so doing you'll notice that when creating a story about another tiny PC, the price of the subject should be given, size and power, too.
  • But is it the most powerful destructive force in the two universes?
  • I work at a Hospital, and I read these small / silent PC reviews with interest. We have need of a quiet PC to put in the surgery rooms here - but there are a couple of stiff requirements I have yet to see in a single PC...

    First, it has to support dual monitors, for the Xray imaging app that we use.

    It has to be able to run Windows, or be able to get to a citrix terminal server.

    It has to support wheel mice within the ICA connections

    It cannot have any fan, because of dust

    Does anyone know of such a machine?

    • You could do this with those new VIA processors, and I'm sure you can get dual head cards without fans (possibly some Matrox or Radeon cards). The VIA processors can be run just using a large heatsink. Some motherboards have fans on the northbridge, but you can replace those with Zalman heatsinks which work a treat if you get into that situation.

      The only remaining issue is the 1 fan on the PSU. There are some fanless PSUs around. There's only one make I've seen that are fanless, that I can't actually remember now, and they're nonstandard size. You can also get away with removing the fans on the PSU, but that can be a bit dodgy sometimes and prone to overheating. If you're not using much power though, you might find it works.

  • The other neat thing is the reviewer stuffs a P3 1.26 and a Radeon 7500 into the system. Perfect for bringing to LANs!"

    Also perfect for setting off smoke alarms! :)

  • Why do we still build them like this? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Myco ( 473173 ) on Friday September 06, 2002 @09:29AM (#4206289) Homepage
    I've been wondering for some time why, with all the engineering marvels available to us, we still have such tangled, clunky, space-wasting internals in our computers. Look inside your computer: sure, there's a lot of stuff in there, but by volume it's mostly empty space. Don't believe me? I invite you to empirically test it with Archimedes' principle.

    The problem, as I see it, is that a combination of needing to be backwards-compatible, and failing to reevaluate gestalt hardware design, has left us with boxes that don't look fundamentally different on the inside than they did 15 years ago.

    Here's what I envision: a physical architecture in which every component is an enclosed, rectilinear module which snaps in and out as easily as a PCMCIA card. No need to open up the case to do an upgrade. No need to fuss with screws and fitting cards into slots. I mean, honestly, screws? We can do better than this, folks!

    I think this approach would work. I mean, is there any good reason why cards have to slot in perpendicular to the motherboard? Through the magic of electricity and a miraculous substance called copper, we could easily redirect the power and data paths to component bays as described above.

    Hardware should be modular, and that implies loose coupling. All that's really necessary is to connect the components with the appropriate sort of conductive material. That's a really loose constraint, and yet every computer that comes off the line has the same pain-in-the-ass structure to it.

    Well?

    • Heh. WAY back in 1986, I was over at Michael Abrash's house in Mountain View and he showed me his IBM PS/2 model 50. He pulled it apart almost like Legos. It was by far the most easily field-stripped machine I've ever seen.

      So I guess it's been tried, and had the feature been seen as valuable by more people, it might have survived in later products. Much later, in the fall of 1993, I flew down to Boca to see IBM's impending (but never released) PowerPC boxes, which were quite small, and had several PCMCIA slots instead of conventional bus slots. We can't blame the market on that failure, but it was a gorgeously designed piece of hardware and I wish they had just done an Intel-based box that way.

      What I'd really like to see is for the Saintsong guys (or whoever it is that actually designed the Cappuccino PC and its cousins) create a stackable box design that would let you start with a Cappuccino PC, and then pop off the bottom and snap it atop a similarly sized bay containing a ZIP 250 or an additional hard drive or whatever you might in fact need. The Cappuccino has nearly all of what ordinary people need, and the few extraordinary people who bought it could then add what it lacks.

      That's the way the SFF business needs to be going.

      --73--

      --Jeff Duntemann
      Scottsdale, Arizona
      jeff at duntemann dot com

  • Cappucino PC (Score:2, Informative)

    by nightsweat ( 604367 )
    ThinkGeek has a tiny little thing, no bigger footprint than the CD/DVD drive. Still holds a P3 1.2, 30Gb HD, 512Mb RAM http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/computing/5a98.shtm l [thinkgeek.com]

  • To make a decent gateway out of such a box, one needs TWO ethernet ports. There is a slot there, but it would be nicer if it was integrated. So not only do I need to add the slim CDROM drive cost, but also the extra NIC card cost (which is not all that much, but now there is no more slot available).

  • Remember the Acorn RiscPC? The most expandable case design ever.
    Start with a pizzabox [impress.co.jp] with 1 CD drive 1 floppy drive. Then if you need more room, just add slices [pvv.ntnu.no] until you have behemoth server case! [dion.ne.jp]
    Would this be possible? Of course, you would new motherboard standard, with riser plates for PCI.
    Just a thouhgt. (Oh and the RiscPC was quiet, no fans whatsoever needed!)

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