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Hardware

Cappuccino PC, Round 3 215

Posted by Hemos from the wish-I-could-have-some-coffee dept.
Simon (S2) writes "do you remember the cappuccino pc? There is a new release of it called Mocha. The Mocha P4 PC size advantage makes it ideal for places where space is at a premium or for those who work in several fixed locations at once and want to be able to access the same data everywhere. Mocha P4 is a PC that is so flexible, efficient, compact and portable technically knocks down all existing desk top PCs. Choosing a big and bulky inappropriate PC has become an obsolete way of thinking. The over all technology of other mini-book PCs around is still far from our achievement today. Take advantage of the new breed PC of tomorrow and experience the next generation way of computing."
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Cappuccino PC, Round 3 More

Cappuccino PC, Round 3

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  • but can it play quake? oh...it can....sweet...

  • Why not just get a laptop? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Well, why not?
    • Well, I like to a have a portable Mosix cluster with me at all times (it's much nicer to run fluid dynamics simulations at the local cafe than in the lab) and of course my primary node is my laptop. But the other 40 nodes are Cappuchinos.
    • I couldn't get a price on the site, but I suspect I'd go for 2-3 of those Walmart $199 PCs

      http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?produ ct _id=1957333&cat=96356&type=19&dept=0&path=0%3A3944 %3A3951%3A96356

      and some kind of removeable HD, maybe one of those keyring/USB things. I know I'd still need monitors, but did anyone get a price on those Mocha devices before the website died?
    • Much more niche market, this thingy, but:

      * Not everyone needs a screen. If you just want something headless, it's much smaller.
      * Contractor or other multi-site based role? Well, this gives you a full PC with network in a box not much bigger than a PDA. Take this round, plug it into their keyboard, mouse and monitor and you've got a PC with little carried round. Yes, that's dependent on them being there but how many offices don't have them spare somewhere? Also, means you get a proper one of each rather than the ergonomic nightmare that is a laptop.
      • "* Not everyone needs a screen. If you just want something headless, it's much smaller."

        I use my Xbox connected to my stereo as a jukebox. No TV. I have memorised the button sequence to get to the song list I want and start playing it. :)

  • Ad... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by opti6600 ( 582782 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:07PM (#4184197)
    An interesting thread...but nonetheless... coughcoughcoughfreeadvertisingcough
  • The PC that looks like an Amstrad CPC! [nycom.co.uk] Not such a great deal when you look at the specs, but hey-- it's the retro computer-in-the-keyboard look. Add a three inch floppy drive and you're there.

  • Hey Taco (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sql*kitten ( 1359 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:11PM (#4184215)
    Mocha P4 is a PC that is so flexible, efficient, compact and portable technically knocks down all existing desk top PCs. Choosing a big and bulky inappropriate PC has become an obsolete way of thinking. The over all technology of other mini-book PCs around is still far from our achievement today. Take advantage of the new breed PC of tomorrow and experience the next generation way of computing."

    Why not make him buy a banner ad like everyone else? This isn't a product review or even an annoucement, it's blatant, and unsubstantiated, hype.
    • Exactly. If I wanted market-spin disguised as a review I'd subscribe to Ziff-Davis rags.
    • How very true. Firstly, text like "the new breed PC of tomorrow" is just pathetic given that there is absolutely nothing revolutionary in it apart from size, but for that we have the "computer of tomorrow" that we call "laptops", and they're even more space efficient. Perhaps they think SPDIF (on low end soundcards, and some motherboard headers) or gigabit LAN is really impressive, however anyone can ad that in their PC if they so desired.

      What's especially laughable, though, is looking at their heatsink (a large piece of copper) and seeing the phrase "patent pending". Give me a break: I think the cookware industry has some prior art on the use of metal to spread heat.

      This is a blatant advertisement, and nothing less. Was Slashdot kidding when they had the april fools story stating that they'd intermix ads with real articles?

    • slashdotted! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )
      actually it's a punishment for trying to submit sh** like this.. tsiihii.

      mandatory beowulf cluster of these included

    • Re:Hey Taco (Score:3, Insightful)

      by sludg-o ( 120354 )
      Yes, it is pure hype. Taco didn't make them buy a banner ad because they paid more for a whole story. Did you miss the announcement about slashdot's new policy of posting one story a day that is really a paid advertisement? Here is is, straight from Taco's mouth. [slashdot.org]
    • How do we know this isn't a paid spot? It wouldn't suprize me if /. started selling front page stories.

  • Nice but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kaypro ( 35263 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:13PM (#4184223)
    I think if they increased the form factor slightly so as to incoporate one agp slot, then they'd really have something. Stick in the latest Nvidia or ATI graphics card and you've got a full fledged PC. Or maybe I'm just talking about those Shuttle [shuttleonline.com] mini form factor PC's, though I think the Cappuccino with an AGP slot would still be smaller. Might have to stick in an extra fan though...

  • Startling investigative journalism (Score:5, Interesting)

    by darien ( 180561 ) <darien@gmail. c o m> on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:13PM (#4184229)
    "The over all technology of other mini-book PCs around is still far from our achievement today. Take advantage of the new breed PC of tomorrow and experience the next generation way of computing."

    Dude. This is totally a press release. Couldn't somebody at least have stuck a snide comment at the end?? I come to Slashdot for... er... well, I forget, but anyway, adverts masquerading as news reports bomb.

  • So... (Score:2, Funny)

    by kerincosford ( 228730 )
    Slashdot is just cunt and pasting press releases, and posting them as stories now?

    Lame.

    "PC of tomorrow", indeed.

  • A cool idea for a certain type of user (Score:3, Informative)

    by seldolivaw ( 179178 ) <me&seldo,com> on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:14PM (#4184234) Homepage
    I've been looking at these for a while, and I always think "What use is this? If you want a desktop, get a desktop, if you want portability, get a laptop". But on balance I think this could be cool for a certain type of user who doesn't want a laptop, with its fragility, high cost and tiny screen (I can't stand even 15" monitors...), but does need to carry a computer around to other locations where the requisite peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor) will be easily available -- a telecommuter, maybe, or a college student who travels home a lot (like me!).

    It's undeniably a cool bit of tech, but it's definitely for a niche market.

    • I might be in that niche! I travel to client sites with my ageing notebook and I really need to upgrade. But I don't really need a notebook - this thing is either plugged into a monitor and keyboard on-site or sitting at home. But I do want to carry my own environment around. So, if this thing is significantly cheaper than a notebook (I'm guessing it must be but the site is a little busy right now) then it would be just what I am looking for.

      And would I be right in thinking I could upgrade the memory without paying horrible mobile memory prices?

    • I looked at Cappucinos a while back as a small footprint machine. Machine had to go out in a flight case nice and easily but needed normal screen (TFT OK), keyboard and mouse. Last I heard, we were using something else now though. Can't remember what, sorry.

      Problems, as I recall:

      * NOISY! That cooling fan was, wow, loud. Not good.
      * Messy. I know it's small, but I'd accept a slightly larger footprint if it meant all the cables came out in the same place.
      * Icky floppy drive solution. If you want one, how about a docking station? Much tidier.

      For us, it was a nice bit of kit but not that fantastic. Still, interesting.
  • why do you think this site hasn't been slashdotted yet? The superiority of the Cappuccino line? That extra jolt of caffeine powering their sysadmins?

    Or maybe it's just that they knew about the upcoming load, since they submitted the story?
  • "The Mocha P4 PC size advantage makes it ideal for places where space is at a premium or for those who work in several fixed locations at once and want to be able to access the same data everywhere."

    And an external hard drive cannot do that? Saves you about $1000
  • I was reading the FAQ and it said that this thing didn't need a monitor or keyboard to boot. This would make a great server because you could shove a lot of these things onto one rack if you wanted to.
    • Oh, but then wouldn't this [nexcom.com] or this [rlx.com] be a significantly better choice?

    • I was reading the FAQ and it said that this thing didn't need a monitor or keyboard to boot.
      There are very few i386 machines that actually require a keyboard to boot, and none that require a monitor. Most that "require" a keyboard have a bios setting to ignore keyboard errors (and often video errors, so you don't even have to have a video card...)
    • It uses microdrives (near as I can tell; the free advertsing from /. killed their server). That's not too swell a choice for a server that needs to do any significant amount of I/O. The RLX blades [rlxtechnologies.com] use similarly slow drives, but at least with those you can easliy cluster or load balance. They can even use two drives, so striping might be a solution (as long as you didn't care about the data all that much).

      Having said that, if you used the Mocha with some sort of NAS device like a NetApp [netapp.com] then you might have something. IMO, the RLX stuff is still a better solution, though. At least with those you can mirror the boot drive.

      Of course, I'm just pulling all this outta the air, so take as many grains of salt as needed.

      -B

  • Jolt PC
    RedBull PC
    Crack PC

  • The Guide to Advertising By Stealth on Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wackybrit ( 321117 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:16PM (#4184244) Homepage Journal
    1. Don't hype up the benefits we've already had for years with existing equipment.

    The Mocha P4 PC size advantage makes it ideal for places where space is at a premium or for those who work in several fixed locations at once and want to be able to access the same data everywhere

    Really? Wow, that's a really new concept. I mean, I could just use the Internet to access the same data from multiple locations.. but no, instead I can lug around a whole PC with me instead! Hang on.. wouldn't I just buy a notebook if I wanted to do that?

    2. Don't blind us with meaningless adjectives.

    Mocha P4 is a PC that is so flexible, efficient, compact and portable technically knocks down all existing desk top PCs.

    Gee whiz. Lots of adjectives. It must be good! How does the size of a computer make it more 'efficient' anyway?

    3. Don't blatantly admit you're connected to the item you're promoting.

    The over all technology of other mini-book PCs around is still far from our achievement today.

    Hemos deserves a big slap down for posting this when this one sentence ADMITS it's just an ad! Other computers are still far from our achievement? Hello editors, this is an ad!

    4. Don't sound so cheesy that anyone still reading will just ignore your ad anyway.

    Take advantage of the new breed PC of tomorrow and experience the next generation way of computing.

    This sounds just as corny as the fake ads in Grand Theft Auto 3 for 'The House of Tomorrow'.

    Have the technology of tomorrow.. today!
  • Presumably, the server is a Mocha and the P4 has melted its socket or something.
  • A PC/coffee maker? I've been waiting for one of those for years! Can I use my CD-Rom drive as a cup holder?
    • Sweet! Now all I need is a monitor/toilet and I would never have to leave my computer. I still haven't seen the mocha site. It's really getting hit hard. Anyway, it couldnt possibly beat a nes pc from http://www.retrosystem.com/
  • Besides the fact that the specs aren't that good.

    E.g. It needs a better graphics card.

    It will be a hit just because of that nifty "Open Flap Stand" feature/thingy. Until now I have used old books for that kind of problems with my old PC. Is the idea patented???

    BTW where is the coffee pot to be placed?

  • I always thought these machines would be good as servers. You could have twenty of them serving your site. If one of them dies, just open the drawer and grab a warm standby, plug her in and off you go.

    And it would look pretty cool having a whole drawer full of little PCs...
  • ..For a minute I thought I'd somehow got transfered to my spam mailbox or something.

    Seriously, Slashdot stories shouldn't consist purely of the advertising blurb at the top of the manufacturer's webste. Unless they're sponsoring /. or something? It looks just a little over-hyped - it's a small PC, dur...

    Chris

    Yeah yeah, mod me down, I'm not being suitably impressed :-)

  • Damned kids (Score:5, Funny)

    by moronga ( 323123 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:19PM (#4184265)
    Choosing a big and bulky inappropriate PC has become an obsolete way of thinking.

    Back in my day, all we had was inappropriate PCs. They'd show up for dinner in shorts, and make lewd comments about the hostess.

    Seriously though, there was a time when choosing an inappropriate PC was, er, appropriate? Don't marketing people take English classes anymore?
  • these should be great for lan parties. its a real pain in the ass to lug around a full sized pc, but laptops are just too expensive and not powerful enough to use.
  • I guess we're going to have to get used to this, or look elsewhere. Cut and paste your press release into Slashdot for a new fresher taste... Marketing spooge bukkake fest for /. ?

  • Needed more Ad Revenue? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Zapdos ( 70654 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:24PM (#4184295)
    How much does it cost to have my ad ran as a /. Story?

  • Bah, I'll stick with my full tower (Score:4, Funny)

    by Com2Kid ( 142006 ) <com2kidSPAMLESS@gmail.com> on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:25PM (#4184301) Homepage Journal
    I have seen reviews of these things that say that we should all throw away our full towers and buy one of these instead.

    Like hell.

    My A/V PC has 5 PCI devices and 4 IDE devices, my 3D workstation has 5 PCI back plates used up (various extenders from other cards) and 3 actual PCI slots in use, along with a mere 3 IDE devices (it is going to get a CDRW so make that 4 IDE devices soon now), and;

    oh yah;

    each one of my steel full muthafucking tower cases?

    Doubles.

    As

    A stepladder.

    BIZZOOOOOOTCH!
    • each one of my steel full muthafucking tower cases?

      Doubles.

      As

      A stepladder.

      BIZZOOOOOOTCH!

      --
      Poet looking for greeting card publisher Inquire Within [netfirms.com].

      Take a moment to read that sig before moving on, please.

      -Michael

    • Muahaha, excellent post. I agree completly. Although I don't plan on buying another full-tower case in the near future, my current one kicks ass and there are only a few mid-towers where you can hook up dual 10K rpm SCSI disks *and* still be able to cool them properly.

      And yeah, I've used my computer as a seat, keyboard stand, etc, but it does kinda suck to lug it, along with a 19" monitor, to a lanparty.

      Small PCs have their place, though. I'm looking at getting one of those cute little Shuttle cube jobs for use as a set-top box (NOT a PVR) that I'm designing. Then again, a whirring full-tower with loads of blinking lights next to the entertainment center might make quite a conversation piece for the living room...

  • Slashvertisements (Score:4, Funny)

    by sludg-o ( 120354 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:26PM (#4184304)
    God, these "Slashvertisements" [slashdot.org] are getting pretty bad.
  • Please! can someone delete this thread and ban the user that would post this POS. Give me a break. Anyone that would waste their money and believe the BS this user posted deserves what they get. Just show's how little anyone interested in this POS really knows about computing. oh yes.. this is crap and scum advertising. what's next a pop-up ?
  • I can't believe people are bothering to respond to this PR nonscense.. you'd never find me respoding to an advert thinly veiled as a story...probably...ahem, erm, yeah got me there

  • Why was this posted? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ColGraff ( 454761 ) <maron1@LAPLACEmi ... m minus math_god> on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:34PM (#4184345) Homepage Journal
    This reads so much like an advertisement, it isn't even funny. Since when are product plugs - blatant ones! - news for nerds or stuff that matters?
  • Some folks ask: "Why not get a laptop?"

    Well, a laptop can be less than ideal in some situations. I know video professionals who would prefer a small-space PC to a laptop because some of the cuts laptop manufacturers make for battery life. Slower hard drives, slower CPUs, etc.

    A small-scale, otherwise full-fledged PC is a great idea. It's portable, in an Apple //c way, and it's very powerful, unlike even the most high-end laptops.
  • And if you act now, we'll get it to you gfor just three EASY payments of $19.95! Call while supplies last!
  • Site slashdotted when I tried to connect. Not so good advertising, after all, if I can't have a look at it, is it?

  • Sets off every anti-BS alarm in my body! (Score:5, Funny)

    by TopherC ( 412335 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @12:45PM (#4184405)
    See the latest in innovation! Totally changes the way you work, and even think about working! Far superior to unsightly cabinets of dusty electronics, and for a price that is astounding! If you decide to keep it, we'll refund half the purchase price. This is so revolutionary that it makes the PC obsolete. Stop by, and you'll get a free onion!
  • I dunno about this PC but I guess it just couldn't take the slashdotting
  • Are they running their webserver on one of these? Yeesh, count me out...

  • Anyone know where you can get one of these in the UK?
  • I don't car eif it is a press release or not. Small PC's like this have a TON of uses I can come up with in less than 30 seconds:

    MP3 Server in car
    GPS navigation in car
    Wearable (with proper battery pack)
    Internet terminal in car for passengers

    Telematic Solution (Voice navigation, MP3, Internet fed by a 3G cel phone providing all sorts of services with TTS for the driver and a LCD for passengers...ends the are we there yet questions of kids).

    Stick it in your kitchen, bedroom, bathroom or hall closet.

    Listen. Not everyone needs a fire breathing machine to surf the net or word process. Not everone plays quake (I'm a geek and I don't). Not everyone needs a 400 dollar video card. My neighbor has a 2-3 year old machine and is perfectly happy with it. It does everything he needs. Personally, I am ready for an upgrade myself, but not even to a top end machine. I need the processor power, but don't need a Geforce 4. I will be happy with something that just processes a hair faster then my Duron 700. I'd be happy with the 1.2 Ghz machine you threw out yesterday.
  • Why don't you have it on ThinkGeek [thinkgeek.com] yet? Still selling the old stale cappucino there.... Methinks the marketroids didn't plan this well, and instead are just annoying would-be-news-readers.
  • Be sure to make sure your site is even up AT ALL! The site doesn't take forever, it just doesn't exist!

    However, if it was taken down by the slashdot effect, it proves that more people click on story links rather than banner ads...but everyone already knew that :-)
  • This is nothing new. Years ago, early 90s, they had the Ergo Brick.

    The interesting thing is that it was a metal case, and the CPU had thermal gel to cool the CPU through the case.

  • Their site is giving an "500 Internal Error"... Perhaps they should look into the next generation Operating System [linux.com] and Web Server [apache.org] as well.

  • No AGP ??? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pjrc ( 134994 ) <paul@pjrc.com> on Monday September 02, 2002 @01:46PM (#4184645) Homepage Journal
    Another poster pointed out that this thing lacks an AGP slot. Very uncool.

    A couple days ago, Robin and I were playing Neverwinter Nights (yes, I broke down and rebooted, but I _still_ want the linux version). A friend called and we invited him over to play. He brought a low-end 1.1 GHz celeron machine he picked up at Fry's a couple months ago, and a fresh copy of NWN (yes, we're all very geeky... even Robin... see our website for more info about us)

    Turns out he couldn't play. The on-board video was so slow you couldn't even navigate the menus. I had a machine (in need of some service) with a GeForce3 card in it, so we pulled the card and poped out his box... only to find that it lacked an AGP slot. I guess the $300 price tag for the box (it has linux pre-installed, he installed XP onto it) is a reasonable excuse, maybe.

    But if you're slinging bullshit like:

    Take advantage of the new breed PC of tomorrow and experience the next generation way of computing

    and it can't even be upgraded with a (current) game-capable graphics card, how can anyone consider is an expereince of next generation computing.

    and to add a bit of poetic justice, this shameful ad copy only got their site slashdotted, so potential customers for this lame "next generation way of computing" are getting nothing more than HTTP/1.1 Server Too Busy. Maybe they should have used a LARGER and more capable computer!

  • Missing the point? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Tony ( 765 ) on Monday September 02, 2002 @01:51PM (#4184658) Journal
    Seems the manufacturer wants to advertise on Slashdot. Okay, fine, whatever. Even sneaking it in as a real submission is fine. I don't own slashdot.

    But, what the hell do they mean, "next generation way of computing?" First, what does that even mean? And secondly, what have they done to back it up?

    The answers: nothing, and nothing. In that order.

    Seems they think the next generation of computers are merely smaller than the current generation. They don't do anything truly useful, like digitize you and put you on the game grid; they are the same as the bigger, current generation, only more restricted.

    First, it uses 2.5" hard drives, which are slow and expensive, making it a bad choice for software development. Second, you can't simply use the latest video cards, rendering it useless for high-end gaming.

    So, if the hard drive is too slow for development, and the video is too slow for high-end gaming, what use is it?

    If it's merely small, I will use an ITX mobo and case, or a uATX if I want the latest processor.

    I don't know why I just spent so much time responding to blatant advertising; I guess it's just a slow day.
  • because they still won't integrate a decent video chipset.. Come on a geforce2 would do some amazing things in it and is a bargan basement video chipset now. This is the year 2002.. they can stop using the absolute cheapest video chipsets in these integrated computers.
  • I'd rather get this [ebay.com].

    sweet sweet transmeta chip with log lasting battery (I'd get the 10 hour battery).
  • First, Taco posts a story about The Two Towers being traded online [slashdot.org] with the only source being The Drudge Report and despite the near certainty that the movie is still being worked on.

    Then, Taco reposts a story about a 'universal remote control' [slashdot.org] that timothy posted on Saturday [slashdot.org] (it's still listed on the front page of slashdot over on the right).

    Then, Taco posts this very obvious press release/advertisement [slashdot.org] about a small form-factor PC and slashdots the poor manufacturer's web site [cappuccinopc.com]. I guess that's what you get for advertising on slashdot when you run IIS.

    Does this have anything to do with OSDN's [osdn.com] recent decision to close FreeCode [freecode.com]? I guess I would be a little jittery if my parent company closed down one of its subsidiaries. Of course, that wouldn't qualify as "News for nerds. Stuff that matters" as much as the CappucinoPC press release, so that won't be posted today.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

  • These little boxen little brothers look sweet. I love the size and the price isn't really all that bad. But it would rock if they could squeeze in a mobile Radeon 9000 for video, a next-gen GeForce mobile when it's released (GeForce4 Go doesn't cut it with next-gen games, e.g. Doom III). Still using VGA instead of DVI?

    Now for the naysayers complaining about journalistic integrity. Once again Slashdot is not a newspaper, it's a blog. CmdrTaco, Hemos, and the gang are not journalists, they're geeks. Yeah, the article is pretty much hyping something - I think the Cappucino line is pretty cool, just like the Shuttle line of mini-PCs. Is this an "ad" in disguise? Opinions are like assholes...that's why /. has a comments section. Sheesh.

  • I haven't seen this page, looks like it's slashdotted for the next few hours, but i wanted a cheap small firewall box. I like the form factor of the old Qubes, but they're not cheap. Whats a good box to go for? I saw the cappuccino and it was pricey even without the second network card. I don't care about video at all, if I can get a serial console and even delete the video if it would save me a few bucks. As a firewall it doesn't have to be a burner CPU, and get a decent hard drive and I'm set. Is there a standard small form factor that i can get? Something like a cheap celeron, a hard drive, and two network cards, and I think that would be what I needed.
  • How about a new category named Free Advertising?
  • But so are all the articles about the shuttle mini pc, apple imac/g4/OSX/emac, Linux distro releases, Intel, Amd, etc..

    Almost every other news item!

    You want "News for Nerds" to be exclusively about the RIAA, MPAA, and case mods?

    Hell no.

  • I've got a Cappuccino GX1 (the second-gen Cappuccino), and I really love it except for one major hitch: heat. If it's doing anything other than idling, the processor generates tons of heat, and that heat has nowhere to go but into the tiny insufficient heatsink or into the hard drive, which is mashed right up next to the processor. This results in crashes after about 24 hours of uptime.

    In the end, I had to take the case off the Cappuccino, remove the proprietary heatsink/ducted fun, jury-rig an old Athlon heatsink and fan to the processor and splice the power cable into the motherboard. I also removed the metal casing around the hard drive, which was retaining heat. Now, with this massive heatsink bulging out of the top, my Cappuccino will run for about a week before it locks up. Still not terribly reliable.

    If this new Mocha (which is actually the 5th-gen, not the 3rd) has a better cooling system, it'll be well worth the money. Otherwise, it's a total waste. Unfortunately the page is Slashdotted and there's no Google cache, so I can't get any details.

  • ThinkGeek has been selling the "Cappuccino TX-3" mini-PC from this same company for a while now. How much do you want to bet that they're making a commission on all sales that come in today at the Cappuccino PC Web site?
  • I mean, what exactly is involved in selecting stories for inclusion on the site, because it doesn't seem to involve much editing! No checking to see if articles are repeated. No checking to see if a submission accurtaley refelcts the original story. No checking to see if a submission advocates illegal activities. No checking to see if a submission is just blatant advertising. I'm sure many professional editors would be mortified to see their job title being used in this way. Come on guys, shape up a bit! You have a great site here. A few screwups are ok, but you do need to keep to some standards!

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