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Handhelds Hardware

Danger Device Reviewed 153

Posted by CmdrTaco from the getting-closer-to-the-dream-pda dept.
Andonyx writes "There's already a review out on Zdnet regarding Danger's Hiptop PDA / Phone device. It looks very interesting and the review is mostly positive. It has some minor niggles, but concludes that it is a compelling and polished first gen offering."
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Danger Device Reviewed More

Danger Device Reviewed

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  • errr, (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    same article here [thinkmobile.com] as far as i can tell, that link is 404. anyone have the right one?

  • Funny... (Score:2, Funny)

    by T3kno ( 51315 )
    When I hit Reply to post this comment about a broken link there is a little tag line that reads (Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Don't forget the http://!). Just an observation =)
  • Link is bad.

    If the editors keep neglecting to check these, someday we'll end up with one that points to goatse.cx .

  • Danger (Score:1)

    by x311 ( 600406 )
    Danger, Danger, link is broken. Return to your homes, pray to your dieties, and cower for your life in the looming danger of the great 404.

    • The almight 404 has backed down in light of the forthcoming /. effect. Stay in your homes and assume the fetal position underneath an open doorway.

  • Try a correct link: (Score:5, Informative)

    by llamalicious ( 448215 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @01:47PM (#4071667) Journal
    to the story. [zdnet.com]

  • Hiptop??? HIPTOP???? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by mhore ( 582354 )
    Pardon moi, but isn't that the same damn thing as a laptop? Granted it's smaller, but my laptop also rests on my hips... unless we're talking the sides of your upper legs, in which case, I imagine using this contraption would be quite uncomfortable.

    Mike.

    • I believe the name refers to its size, its bigger than a cell phone, but small enough that you can put it in your hip pocket. The idea being that this can replace some people's laptop.
    • It's called a hiptop device because it fits in your pocket (you know, where your hips are), not because you use it while resting it on your hip.

  • Is this it? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Reverend Beaker ( 590517 )
    Try Here [zdnet.com]
  • I've been a voicestream user for over a year, working with the ultimately too-buggy and breakable Motorola V.100. The Pocket PC Phone XDA had come out, so I was in between buying a full fledged PDA to replace my 2nd Ipaq (first one screen broke), or going with this device.

    I'm glad I went with the XDA. One week now and I've had no problems that the reviewers all had. I've installed all my old ipaq software, downloaded a crapload of MP3's (to a 256MB SD card), even downloaded an mpeg movie which is quite watchable even on the smaller screen.

    This pseudo-useful device definitely has its place, but it looked way too similiar to my v.100 in many ways, and I wanted a color screen with a useable resolution. For a few hundred bucks more ($300 or so) I was able to get a fully fledged PDA (albeit running MS OS) and a great phone, all in one.

    No unlimited data on my end, though. Voicestream's data packages are ludicrously expensive... 5MB of data for $20 a month, ouch.

  • What's in a name... (Score:3, Funny)

    by red_dragon ( 1761 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @01:55PM (#4071718) Homepage

    Now there's a PDA that Steve Irwin [crocodilehunter.com] would be happy to use.

    Danger, danger, danger!

  • ZDnet today (Score:5, Funny)

    by Astrorunner ( 316100 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @01:57PM (#4071730) Journal
    What does it tell you about ZDnet, when the advertisement in the middle of the article is five times bigger than the picture of the item in question?
  • I always do my posts in a text editor to check spelling, and then cut and paste into the submission form. According to my saved copy, that link works correctly. And actually if I click on it now, on the slashdot page, it works also.

    The editors reformatted this post to fit the link into the text, so my guess is, if something went wrong it was at that stage, otherwise I don't know what to tell you.

    Sorry for any incovenience.

  • Crotchtop PDA (Score:2, Funny)

    by cioxx ( 456323 )
    That's right. You heard it there first © 2002

    A small device attaches itself to your genitals. The early concept model is still in development, hence I cannot release the full feature details. But I must stress the fact that it uses recycled energy whenever there is friction involved. It comes standard with Anu-Tooth, which is the modified version of blootooth module and plugs right into the crack.
    • this "crotch top" pda is that it "attaches itself"(!) Look ma! no hands! Watch while this small robot pda crawls down my pants and wraps itself around my mule...'course, if you're a woman it might be a bit more.....invasive...:)

  • Whateeeeeeever... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by ruzel ( 216220 )
    Whatever. It uses a frikkin keyboard -- how innovative is that? What's worse, it uses a QWERTY keyboard. C'mon! When are these manufacturers going to define something really useful. The Wall Street Personal Journal has a review [wsj.com] as well and they point out that Danger Inc. (great name) is staffed by people from Apple and General Magic. Obviously, Danger Inc. got stuck with the lame-os who were unwilling to persue handwriting recognition. (or voice recognition, or a b.a.t. keypad, or even DVORAK keyboard.)

    The screen turns around. Yay.
    _______________________
    • Whatever. It uses a frikkin keyboard -- how innovative is that?

      Pretty "frikkin" fantastic if you ask me - since I got my Tréo, I would never want to go back to something without a keyboard! You'd prefer - what? Lame Graffiti? Pneumatic tongue controls? The keyboard has been with us for so long for a reason.

      What's worse, it uses a QWERTY keyboard. C'mon!

      So instead you'd prefer that millions of people raised on QWERTY be expected to learn something else? Yeah, that's a surefire recipe for success...

    • "When are these manufacturers going to define something really useful.(?)"

      being generous to your observation, you can probably do useful voice recognition with something around a 1GHZ P3/256MB RAM/50-100MB of SROM for the voice rec firmware

      some developer friends who have extensive voice rec XPerience (i don't) would say 1.5GHZ P4/512MB RAM/100-200MB of SROM....

      even given super low power versions of all these parts (which DON'T exist at this time)

      your battery life (assuming 2-4 AA spec cells (more for form factor than any other reason, you'd actually use LiPoly, but you still wouldn't have room for than the eqivalent of 4 AAs) your battery life would be measured in minutes

      "Obviously, Danger Inc. got stuck with the lame-os who were unwilling to persue handwriting recognition. (or voice recognition, or a b.a.t. keypad, or even DVORAK keyboard.)"

      obviously you're NOT an engineer, OR don't understand either "economies of scale" OR just how hard it is to get a new technological standard adopted...(check with BeOS developers).

      if all this tech existed (it doesn't) the device would retail between $1500 - $3000, hardly good territory for a consumer communications device

      THAT MIGHT BE WHY THEY DIDN'T DO SOMETHING "USEFUL"???????

  • from the article

    "I was very impressed with the speed of the AOL IM client, but was disappointed that it was the only IM option offered pre-loaded on the device. While I expect that MSN Messenger and Yahoo Messenger will be supported in the future, for now, you're out of luck if you use either of them."

    I hope they move to something more extensible like jabber or trillian. However AIM is the de-facto standard so it isn't such a big loss.

    Also, in another section of the article he comments negatively on the camera add on... ITS A FREAKIN PHONE! IMHO the communications should come first (which they apparently do) and the nifty stuff that you wouldn't use much (camera) second. However, adding a quality digital camera to one of these PDA/Phone things would be extremely useful... enough that i might actually get one!

    But then again there is the constant tradeoff between battery, cost, and quality. In mobile devices you have to pay for every little bit, so you better make sure its worth putting in.

    The article doesn't say anything about the hackability of this gadget. Does anyone have any knowledge of that?
    • The earlier devices worked with multiple IM systems but T-Mobile has a thing going with AOL so it became an AOL client.

      The camera quality is fine, it's just the resolution that is very low. It's really just for fun.

      Hacking this device is going to be tough IMO. Danger run the back-end so they can control who gets what if they want. It's like WebTV with their proxy system - look at the mgmt bios for indications on why! Danger have mentioned an open developer's program being available in the future but nothing yet except and email address for interested parties. I heard they have a Java based OS.

      Cliff

  • Picture? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tall Rob Mc ( 579885 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @02:01PM (#4071760)
    Would it kill them to put a larger-than-thumbnail picture of the thing up with the review?

  • How to get one for free! (Score:4, Funny)

    by BigBir3d ( 454486 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @02:01PM (#4071766) Journal
    For "testing" of course. Go here [danger.com].

  • 24-bit color (Score:5, Funny)

    by Non-Newtonian Fluid ( 16797 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @02:01PM (#4071768)
    "Wow," I though, "that's pretty good," until I noticed that it applied not to the PDA's screen, but rather to it's "illuminated LED push-wheel." Please tell me why I need a scroll wheel capable of blinking in 16.7 million different colors.
    • "Wow," I though, "that's pretty good," until I noticed that it applied not to the PDA's screen, but rather to it's "illuminated LED push-wheel." Please tell me why I need a scroll wheel capable of blinking in 16.7 million different colors.



      And the screen is greyscale. Figure that one out.

    • Please tell me why I need a scroll wheel capable of blinking in 16.7 million different colors.

      Preach on. My sorry colorblind eyes have enough trouble with the 1-bit color redgreen LED on my Treo. (anyone working on a blink-rate hack?)

      • Re:24-bit color (Score:2, Insightful)

        by potuncle ( 583651 )
        I know this has barely anything to do with the Danger device, but your message plants a valid point.

        I have the relatively common male red-green color blindness. It isn't severe, and is most noticable with those red/green LED's. The color blindness I have only affects certian wavelengths and those are the wavelenths LED designers seem to have choosen. (I know there were severe limitations on the colors LED's could be, but that issue seems to no longer exist).

        This drives me crazy on hubs, routers, and other equiptment that use dual-colored LED's. I have hacked into many devices and had to replace these LED's with either 2 seperate ones or using some dual colored yellow/blue LED's. Even if someone was completely color blind they would be able to tell the difference since the blue is signifigantly dimmer than the yellow.

        It's about time that manufacturers make indicators that can be correctly viewed by the color-blind and not require them to perform warranty breaking hacks...or always having to ask someone "is this thingy red or green?"

        Sorry about the rant...
        • May I suggest something? Procure a piece of green cellophane and a piece of red cellophane. View said LED in its different states through each piece of cellophane in turn. Seems like the light would be discernably different when you filter it like this. And you only have to ask someone else which color is which one time, when you buy the cellophane (just don't get them mixed up! Sharpie is your friend).
    • One bit I read quite awhile back noted that the screen can be detatched and, it seems, replaced. Sure - this enables a quick replacement for what seems like the most damage-prone component. But there is also speculation and rumor over a color screen replacement in the works.

      As for the scrollwheel... I suspect its cheaper than a full color LCD screen. :P
    • The wheel's colors are just for fun as far as I can tell. The colors are apparently tied to a track on the MIDI files that are used for the ringtones. When I saw one the biggest comment in the group watching was "WOW! DISCO!"
  • More memory (16 megs is pathetic) and an ogg player. Even if it had that, I'd wait for the color version.
    • It also needs a much higher res display (like the new sony one). And needs to be much thinner to be usefull to me. Unless it fits comfortably in my pocket, I'm not interested.

  • Nothing special (Score:4, Funny)

    by jukal ( 523582 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @02:05PM (#4071795) Journal
    It was a nice presentation on their website, here [danger.com]. The thing does not have anything special, and it is not sold now. Most main cell/pda makers will publish similar things within 6 months, I believe. Danger, I quess, just has to go public sooner.

    Or was there anything else fancy, than the market speech, that I missed?

    • Re:Nothing special (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Xerithane ( 13482 )
      Or was there anything else fancy, than the market speech, that I missed?
      Unlimited data transfer for $39.9 a month.
      • That doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Hiptop, though.
        • It is the Hiptops service plan. That has plenty to do with the Hiptop. Voicestream (same providor) has another data plan for the Motorolo V.100 which is an absolute shitload more than that. Did you read the article or voicestream.com for comparison?
          • My point is that it doesn't make sense for different devices to have different plans. Packets are packets. (And I wonder what happens if you sign up for the Hiptop plan and put the SIM card in a different device.)
            • My point is that it doesn't make sense for different devices to have different plans. Packets are packets. (And I wonder what happens if you sign up for the Hiptop plan and put the SIM card in a different device.)

              Yes, it does make sense. And they are doing it. End of story.

              Check out VoiceStream Internet rates [voicestream.com]. It's a big part of the device, the network type (GPRS, GSM, etc) and a lot of other things.

              Packets are not packets over cell phone networks, either. AOL Messaging does not take the same form as a tcp/ip connection over cellphones.
              • Packets are not packets over cell phone networks, either. AOL Messaging does not take the same form as a tcp/ip connection over cellphones.

                That sounds like a bug, since history shows that IP beats everything else. But I don't feel like arguing.
                • That sounds like a bug, since history shows that IP beats everything else. But I don't feel like arguing.

                  AOL Messenger for cell phones typicall goes over SMS systems. Which, yes, communicates via tcp/ip to the server, but to the phone it's SMS. You shouldn't feel like arguing because you don't have an argument.
  • Makes me think of Zaphod's sunglasses that went opaque when he was in danger. Much more useful I think.

  • zerg (Score:3, Informative)

    by Lord Omlette ( 124579 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @02:14PM (#4071847) Homepage
    Hiptop wowed Tycho from Penny Arcade.

    That should be all the press it needs.

    Is this that guerilla marketing /. was referring to earlier?
  • It sends and receives still color pictures [sprintpcs.com] (although the camera is not built into the phone). But data transmission is $20 per megabyte. Ulp.

    Danger has flat-rate data pricing. Still, I wonder what Danger does if you plug in a camera and use it as a webcam, saturating the network.

    The integrated phone/camera has interesting potential if the data cost problem can be overcome.

  • wtf (Score:2, Funny)

    by carpe_noctem ( 457178 )

    It has some minor niggles...


    Niggles? Wtf does that mean? Should I be offended?

    • Re:wtf (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Reminds me of the D.C. aide who resigned [cnn.com] a few years ago after a bunch of dumbasses (including the mayor, who was black) thought his use of the word "niggardly" was a racial slur.

      Yowza, yowza, it sounds like nigger, so it must be bad.

    • Niggles? Wtf does that mean? Should I be offended?

      No. A person who uses the phrase "What the fuck" in casual conversation should not be offended by any form of verbal communication.

      And 'niggles' is a fairly common term meaning "minor reservations", similar to 'speckles' meaning "tiny pieces".

      --
      Evan (no reference)

  • Give me More! (Score:2, Funny)

    by RedElf ( 249078 )
    That's right, I want more, more devices to carry around, wouldn't feel like a proper geek without lugging around more, a Huge watch, a Big Multipurpose Controller for Tv's, Vcrs, DVds, etc. (Hey you won't get stuck watching anything you don't want to now!), A Very Large Palm pilot, A 22lb Laptop, and a few misc. other devices that weight quite a bit, but make me look more geeky.

    • good point. there is an upside, though, to all the gadgets a super geek may find themselves with. All that extra weight may actually be good for your health and daily excercise. Someday muscles may be a distinguishing charateristic for geeks.

      course, I don't own a watch. and I'm still thinking over whether or not to get a pda. :)

  • NOT 3G wireless == useless in 6 months? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It's not 3G wirless if they're with T-mobile.

    Also, dollars to doughnuts that the cellular aspect is T-mobile and EVERYTHING else (web, email, spyware...oops!) is their proprietary network.

    How useful and cool is that going to be if I can't run my webserver from my hip?

    I think getting a device compatible with Sprint's Vision [pcsvision.com] (their 3G wireless solution) would be a much better deal.

  • Delays, delays, delays (Score:4, Insightful)

    by RedX ( 71326 ) <redx@wideopCOBOL ... m minus language> on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @02:37PM (#4071963)
    Danger started releasing info on this device last year, and they've had nothing but delays since. It looked like a very promising device at the time, but it has been caught and passed by other mobile devices since. Had they met their original launch date of April, they'd have been early to market and wouldn't have had the egg on their face that they have today. It was then pushed to June, then to July, then was an early-August release up until a week or two ago when it was again delayed at the last minute. So it now supposedly comes out in September, while in the meantime customers who have been waiting for the device have likely moved on to non-vapor devices.

    • It seems as if they have come way to late to market with this phone , sure they might sell a few units, but compared to the tech Japan's 3G I-Mode and Europe's devices this all-in-one is a glorified calculator

      Lets look at the competition

      Nokia 7650 [nokia.com]
      Integrated digital camera,
      picture taking and sending, MMS (Multimedia Messaging Service), photo album for storing pictures, GPRS, an advanced user interface, downloadable personal applications via Java(TM) technology, joystick navigation and a color display

      Sony Ericcson T68i [sonyericsson.com]
      Bluetooth(TM) ,Built-in modem ,Calendar,Contacts
      E-mail (POP3 & IMAP4),Game, MMS (Multimedia Messaging Services) ,MMS templates, Mobile chat , Picture Phonebook ,Phonealbum ,Sync ML
      Synchronization with PC,Vibrating Call Alert,Voice Dialling ,Wallpaper

      Trium Mondo (mitsubishi) [mitsubishi-telecom.com]
      WAP 1.1,Currency converter,Games,Handsfree built in,Web browser (Pocket Explorer),E-mail (Pocket Outlook),Touch screen with 16 grey levels,Voice recorder,MP3 reader,PDA compatible,Auto-adjust world clock,Document storage,GPRS (General Packet Radio Service),Fax and data capabilities

      (these links are all 2.5g tech as well, i didnt dare link to japans 3g phones/pda's to save Danger the embarrasment.)

      Now i can buy all these products right now in my high street and have been able to for 6 months , and Danger have a device that should of been marketed 2years ago and is sadly lacking, it might be ok for the USA market but in Japan and Europe where devices are seen not only for their features (video/color screens etc)but for their fashion appeal and asthetics this device is dead in the water before its even released.

      In all i think Danger have some catching up to do or revise their target market before entering this domain
      • The Danger is addressing a different market - a low-cost device with flat rate data, aimed at young people, with an emphasis on email and instant messaging.

        The 7650 costs about 300 UKP on contract, or $450, and has only become available in the UK in the last couple of weeks. Other European markets are similar in timing, so I doubt you have been able to buy it for 6 months. The T68i was launched a couple of months ago, and the Trium Mondo looks so horrible that a local retailer has it on special offer as obsolete stock.

        None of the devices you mention are suitable for the youth market, because they are way too expensive. In time, the mainstream GPRS/MMS phones will get cheaper and address this market, but Danger has taken a clever approach by moving much of the functionality onto servers, reducing the cost of the device and enabling it to hit a low required price point.

        I agree about the fashion appeal, though - the Danger looks quite drab by comparison to many new phones, so it will have to have killer features and pricing to succeed.

  • any possibility of telnet or ssh (preferably the latter) on one of these things?
    • Earlier notes on their website indicated that it would be Java based, which would imply the ability to take advantage of all sorts of 3rd party solutions.

      New wording on their site:
      Danger has developed its own virtual machine operating environment. Applications written for the Hiptop platform can be developed using industry standard development tools such as Metrowerks CodeWarrior-J(TM) and Microsoft Visual J++(TM), and then automatically converted to execute in Danger's lightweight and optimized environment.

      And a reference Java in this [com.com] interview.
  • I think it's high time some /. readers got used to hearing this word more often, considering definition #2.

    From Merriam-Webster Online [m-w.com]:

    Main Entry: 1niggle
    Pronunciation: 'ni-g&l
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): niggled; niggling /-g(&-)li[ng]/
    Etymology: origin unknown
    Date: circa 1616
    intransitive senses
    1 a : TRIFLE b : to spend too much effort on minor details
    2 : to find fault constantly in a petty way : CARP
    3 : GNAW transitive senses : to give stingily or in tiny portions
    - niggler /-g(&-)l&r/ noun

  • If you want to check the availability of the device in the USA the link to T-Mobile is here [t-mobile.com] or here. [t-mobile.com]
    Cliff

  • It's the server arch that matters (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Danger's real contribution is the Java-based server architecture for managing 3G devices (the first of which is the Hiptop/Sidekick; they keep saying their not in it for the handhelds -- right). This is the necessary complement to a high-speed infrastructure. You still can't do much with a slightly faster WAP phone.

    This guy [igmus.org] has more tech.

    And it runs Linux and Ascii Doom! (kidding)
    • Selling expensive servers to carriers and taking a loss on the handsets is SO 90's. It is a badly flawed business model and carriers are simply not biteing.
      It means that corporate integration becomes nigh on impossible, as they don't trust carriers to provide their mobile connectivity if the same server carries their competitors info too. Also server less devices will be coming out, based on Pocket PC or BREW or Java, that have all the advantages of a Danger hiptop or RIM device and none of the ties to the servers.

  • Cognition, Relevance and Mobility (Score:4, Insightful)

    by gabbarsingh ( 207183 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2002 @04:51PM (#4072765) Journal
    It seems from the demo [danger.com] this device comes closest to a way of accessing information and communication while being on the move. Vendors don't seem to understand that I don't want to do *everything* on a mobile device. And with PocketPC all developers can think of is porting desktop applications to a smaller form factor. Clearly the issues of human cognition and ergonomics is neglected by developers who are only concerned with enablement. Enablement is so often misunderstood for actual benefit or relevance. The Mac in 1984 understood this, including the one button mouse. The hardware wasn't exactly efficient as far as raw computing is concerned but it was efficient for human use. The QWERTY keyboard in Hiptop is example of this. Sure it is familiar. Sure it extends what is already out there. But is it useful. I recall anecdotaly that the QWERTY keyboard was designed to slow down typists. In any case it is meant for typing by a set of ten fingers than two thumbs.

    That keyboard issue aside, the device screen shots look quite efficient in the manner they get the user from one function to other. The FAQ [danger.com] mention that they have their own virtual machine. This is important. A container environment, I think, is the best way to deploy applications (or rather applets) in a small device. A system of applets should surround data and provide "chaining" just like the Unix shells' filter/redirection rather than the desktop idea of apps/data. This might be a good way to approach mobile devices rather than the standalone app and file format crud.
    • What sort of keyboard would you suggest rather than Qwerty? Nobody is going to learn a Dvorak or Maltron layout just to use a mobile device... The Qwerty layout was originally designed to slow down typing (back when typewriters were wholly mechanical and jammed easily), but that's not really relevant when you are using your thumbs to bash out a short message.
  • Is this the same Danger, Inc. that I walk past every time I venture out to University Avenue in Palo Alto from my dorm here at Stanford?

    I always wondered what the hell they did. Plus I got a kick out of the name. I mean, what would you think if you walked by the offices of some place called "Danger, Inc."?

  • Are you being paid to show product releases like this? I know that traditional news outlets are paid to show stuff like this all the time. Has this practice spread to slashdot?

    Because of the closed, proprietary nature of this device, it is of almost no interest to me (or most long-term slashdot readers) whatsoever. If you are paid to do releases of this nature, please come clean and start a new topic heading.

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