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Handhelds Hardware

Sprint PCS Launches 3G Network 305

Posted by michael from the first-post dept.
pdp1144 writes "Sprint PCS launched the first nationwide 3G wireless network today. Code named Vision it will allow wireless data speeds starting at an average of 50 to 70 kbps." The question is, how much? If the data plan is such that you can use up a month's allotment in five minutes of downloading... Simson Garfinkel had a good column on this recently.
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Sprint PCS Launches 3G Network More

Sprint PCS Launches 3G Network

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  • About time the US started catching up with the rest of the world. Not to mention I love CDMA ;o) .

  • here we go (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Frothy Walrus ( 534163 )
    now even more people will spend half their freakin' days on the phone. just what America needs.

    i say let Japan keep their toys. look at their culture in the cities; there's so much sensory saturation, it's creepy.
    • re: Sensory Saturation: Tell me about it.. Though I don't think we are going to escape it here either. Been to the grocery store recently, with the aisles packed with products so that you can't navigate around them? Or better yet, the modulation of TV commercials. I should sue the networks for speaker damage for cripes sake!
    • Bingo. This "3G" shit is just that... a toy. While cellphones are fantastic, I can't possibly see what use "3G" could be to the average (ie: non-geek, non-kid) person. What's the point of this? Anybody? Anybody?

      • Re:here we go (Score:3, Insightful)

        by doctor_oktagon ( 157579 )
        How many people said this about SMS messaging?

        Now almost everyone with a phone in the UK uses it, and the advertisements are now gearing us up for sending picture messages.

        A camera built into the phone so you can instantly send it to a friend? I kinda like the sound of it!

        The expense will come down (it always does) and we'll forget what life was like before it all arrived (it always happens).

        If you need to go and live in the woods, sure, but you were probably saying that when they invented the TV, so what's new?
        • Everyone's using SMS? Not anyone I know... except in situations where SMS is the only possible solution. That is, in a bar with too much noise to talk, kids in school where the teacher would throw them out for talking on the phone, to notify someone who isnt answering their phone or for computer generated alerts. It's mainly used as a last resort, when you have no other more practical option. If you have email, some IM client or a practically usable phone SMS isnt the preferred method of communication for many people.

          Things will get used if they fills a practical purpose and serves people for a reasonable price. WAP was a total failure because it didnt make things easier. The Internet was a total success because it sped up and simplified things immensly. The jury is still out on 3G. Nobody has managed to make video telephony popular for the last several decades despite the technical capacity available. Maybe sending sucky-quality pictures will get popular for some situations, but the price had better be right.
      • "Bingo. This "3G" shit is just that... a toy. While cellphones are fantastic, I can't possibly see what use "3G" could be to the average (ie: non-geek, non-kid) person. What's the point of this? "

        Greater bandwidth allows for greater voice transmission quality. I have this service in Canada and it is amazing.

        Also business users can connect the phone to their laptop via USB or Bluetooth and connect to the corporate network.

        With enough compression, can you say videophone?

        • Not only that, but it now gives us the option of using decent wireless internet access in our automobiles. I'm going to be using 3G in the dashpc (www.dashpc.com) project.

          I think this is great news for the US. Somehow, we missed the boat on CDMA when Europe,etc. jumped on it.

    • The more technology I live with, the more I like to abandon it and go to the country. I never like phone calls, I usually dislike TV, I often dislike the Web and email and computers...

      I am beginning to see a pattern here. Does anyone else notice that the in the last ten years, the fun seems to have slowly bled from computing and technology?
      • Yep, I agree whole heartedly. I even have a perfect example. On some of the newer phones that are able to get on the web, do text messaging, download ringers, etc, they now have virus scanners available. There have been people that have actually had thier phone rendered useless by a virus (and I am not talking about the palm phones). When technology gets to the point that I need a virus scanner to keep my phone working, I tend to take a bit of an issue with it. Just imagine what it would be like if we moved to a world where the SSSCA/CBDTPA existed.

        BOFH: "Thank you for calling Magnivox tech support."

        C: "Yeah a virus just took out my TV, can you help me?"
      • What do you mean? The fun is HERE!

        As I write this, I'm busy transferring 4 GB of web sites from one server to another for a client from my home-based office, while updates are happening in two other systems, in towns hundreds of miles away. I'm running it all from here, where I look out the window and see black walnut trees and ivy in my front yard.

        I have headphones on plugged into the sound card on my workstation, playing a wonderful (to me) mix of New Age, orchestra, folk, and Classic Rock music, whilst my 5 year old son plays just behind me.

        How else can you work several places at once, in a relaxed chair, and interact with your children, while commanding decent wages without technology?

        This is not FUN?!?!?

        One of my 5 children is diabetic. Cell phones mean that my wife and I can go on dates, and go places with impunity, knowing that we can still keep an eye on our son from anywhere.

        Also, my son has a computerized insulin pump, which automatically meters out insulin as he needs it. This results in excellent blood sugar control, and if we're careful, his life expectancy will be close to normal. 100 years ago, my wonderful son would be dead.

        This is not FUN?!?!?

        As a technology provider, I frequently have to sign contracts with clauses like "24 hour monitoring" and the like. What this means for me is setting up Big Brother Network Monitor. It checks all my stuff around the clock every 5 minutes, and lets me know if there's a problem.

        Combine this with maintained, patched, high quality Linux servers, and you have a pretty worry-free life...

        The trick is to use technology to empower yourself, to leverage technology to improve your life.

        Maybe you'd like a life expectancy of 38 years, and a short, hard life digging for worms and bugs to eat, but I don't.

        It's a very poor pitchfork that can't be used as a weapon against you - so make sure you're using your tools properly!

        -Ben

  • At last I can watch porn wherever I go!

  • AT&T rolled this out 2.5 weeks ago (Score:3, Informative)

    by Zelet ( 515452 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:09AM (#4032885) Journal
    it is called M-mode...

    • Re:AT&T rolled this out 2.5 weeks ago (Score:5, Informative)

      by gambit3 ( 463693 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:47AM (#4033181) Homepage Journal
      Uh... not really. What AT&T rolled out was GPRS, which is 2.5 G, not 3G.

      And before the flames arrive about what is 2G and what is 3G, that my granpa heard this columnist say it wasn't really 3G, and all that junk, there is an Industry Partnership [3gpp.org] that determines what consitutes 3G, and they determined a while back that 1XRTT (What Sprint is deploying) IS 3G.
      • "And before the flames arrive about what is 2G and what is 3G, that my granpa heard this columnist say it wasn't really 3G, and all that junk, there is an Industry Partnership [3gpp.org] that determines what consitutes 3G, and they determined a while back that 1XRTT (What Sprint is deploying) IS 3G."

        Interesting, I have read that this 1xRTT service that sprint is deploying is the first step on the upgrade path to 3G [telusmobility.com]. Maybe there are different definitions depending on the country or something. I've got this on my mobile phone right now and the voice quality is pretty amazing when the other person is on a landline. (I haven't phoned anyone else yet with a mobile that supports it.)

      • Hmmm The ITU calls the CDMA2000 1xRTT spec "3G", but it doesn't meet the ITU's own requirements (2 mbit/s data transfer rates) for the third generation technology! It certainly doesn't meet the service availability and roaming requirements I'd lump 1xRTT in with GPRS as a stop-gap technology (2.5G) between true 3G systems like W-CDMA/UMTS and CDMA2000 EV-DO.

    • No they didn't (Score:2, Insightful)

      by CE@UIC ( 14343 )
      Wrong, no they didn't. Read the fine print. No GSM carriers in the US are anywhere near rolling out 3G. AT&T Wireless = GSM
      Sprint PCS = CDMA
      • Actually CDMA2000, CDMA is 2G. Some other carriers are rolling out W-CDMA (W == Wide).

        Also AT&T did it in 10 cities. Sprint is rolling nationally with everything. Someone in Topeka can have as much 3G as someone in Las Vegas. I bet the NewTek guys love that idea.

        Sprint's 3G has lots of great features. They are also going to compete with a lot of companies now that had no competition before. Case in point is Nextel's Push-to-Talk service. PTT is where you turn your cell phone into a walkie-talkie. It is all the rage. Nextel is the only company that offers it. With Nextel you get a range of about 250 miles. With Sprint however you will get Nationwide coverage. Assuming it works well there will probably be a large chunk of the 8 million Nextel customers taking a very serious look at Sprint.

        I got to use a 3G powered notebook when I was in Lenexa KS. It was extremely cool. I had my picture taken with a 3G digital camera, which sent it's picture up to a webserver and then I was able to email my friends, family and boss the picture. Total turnaround time was about 8 minutes to do all of that. I see that technology being useful in hot real estate markets. There an agent can get the details of a property, take pictures and update the server from the car or the living room and then move onto the next site. It would be possible to get back to the office and have leads generated already.

        There are a lot of interesting uses for 3G like that. I think it would be interesting to have a "singles locator" in which you indicate your basic stats and what you are looking for and when the server detects two people within a certain range of each other, informs each. You check your handset and from a description or picture go looking for the person. Hmmm, actually this sounds like a cool tool for stalkers. Um, never mind!

        As for pricing - that is top-secret until the actual rollout. I don't know what it will be but I think people will be happy with it.

        Disclaimer: I am a Sprint PCS employee and I have worked on 3G products for the last 14 months. However, I know as much about 3G as anyone who has bothered to read all of Sprint's Marketing material and not much more.

        --Peter
    • Yeah, and what about their slew of ads during the superbowl last year to get a "m-life".

      What a crock of shit. A m-life apparently means to rack up minutes on a cellphone chatting about nonesense.

  • true 3G or pseudo? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AssFace ( 118098 ) <stenz77NO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:09AM (#4032886) Homepage Journal
    last I heard, any and all current US implementations of a "3G" system were only pseudo-3G in that they don't offer the full system capabilities.
    What they offer is still way faster than any other wireless phone out there, but not the true 3G offering - I didn't read the article or look into this further, but were Sprint truly the first one out, that would be a big surprise.

    I can recall msnbc talking about this recently and I *think* they also said that it wasn't full 3G
    • It's CDMA. It will start with only about 50kbps but will move up in speed throughout 2003 to the kind of bandwidth you see in Japan.

    • Re:true 3G or pseudo? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Durrik ( 80651 )
      Sprint uses CDMA the last I heard. And no-one is deploying CDMA in a 3xRTT solution right now which was considered true 3G.

      Also from my understanding Qualcomm, currently the major/only producer of 3G CDMA chips, is releasing their Rev A chip later this year. So I assume Sprint is using Rev 0 which isn't 3G.

      IS-2000 (or CDMA 2000 depending on which marketers you talk to) was set up in phases. Initially Rev 0 and Rev A. Rev 0 was a stepping stone from IS-95B (which is only used in Korea), to 3G. Rev A was suppose to be the full 3G solution.

      A few years ago 1xRTT (which Sprint uses) was called 2.5 G. But then came the nice licensing auction in Europe which nearly bankrupted the carriers there for W-CDMA licenses. W-CDMA and 3xRTT require nearly the same licensing because of how much bandwidth they use. 3xRTT uses slightly bit less, but still 3 times more the 1xRTT. 1xRTT can use the same licenses that the carriers in North America and Asia currently have for IS-95. The carriers in North America and Asia mostly scraped plans on going to 3xRTT after the European auction, but the didn't want their systems to be called 2.5G, thus 1xRTT is now called 3G.

      So depending on who you talk to Sprint has (or has not) a true 3G system.

      I don't think we'll see true 3G anywhere in the world for at least 5 years. W-CDMA which is the competitor to CDMA2000 is still having some technical issues to handle. GPRS is 2.5 G though alot of people call it 3G, its a stepping stone to true 3G.

      FWIR 3G is suppose to have 2+ Mbps transfers for stationary wireless stations, and improvements in bandwiths for walking and driving speeds, though I don't remember the numbers. Improved battery time (WCDMA stations haven't fufilled this with stand by times of ~50 hours), and better capacity.

      CDMA-2000 1xRTT fufills all these requirements appart from the bandwidth. Rev 0 of CDMA-2000 only allows a maximum of 153 kbps, and Rev A allows 307 kbps. New inititives for 1xRTT do allow for improved bandwidth. They tried 1xEVDO for the world cup, but from what I heard they couldn't pull it off properly and it still needs some work. 1xEVDO is suppose to offer 2.4 Mbps.
      • "The carriers in North America and Asia mostly scraped plans on going to 3xRTT after the European auction, but the didn't want their systems to be called 2.5G, thus 1xRTT is now called 3G."

        So my north american mobile phone (Telus mobility in Canada) has a sticker that says Qualcomm 3G CDMA on it and the service is advertised as 1xRTT [telusmobility.com]. You're saying that this was renamed to 3G because they couldn't pull of the 'true' 3G for various reasons?

    • Re:true 3G or pseudo? (Score:3, Informative)

      by gambit3 ( 463693 )
      1. It IS true 3G, according to The 3G Partnership Project [3gpp.org]. If I recall correctly, the System had to offer speeds of 144K minimum to qualify, and the Sprint System does that, at least in theory.

      2. Sprint is not the first one. Not even in the U.S. 3G has already been deployed in Japan and in Korea. In the U.S., Verizon has been offering it since the beggining of '02. What Sprint has done is be the first to offer it NATIONWIDE (meaning, wherever Sprint offers service), whereas Verizon offers it only in select markets, and it's slowly being rolled out nationwide.

      3. There is no surprise. Even a full year ago, Sprint kept saying that they would roll out 3G in the Fourth Quarter of '01, which we in the industry [full disclosure: yes, I work in the telecom industry, but no, I have no dealings/stock/insider information/business with Sprint other than using them as my mobile phone provider.] thought was bull, and sure enough, they delayed it first to July 4th, when they were supposed to have a big promotional tie in with MIB2, but in June they postponed even that date and just said they'd go live somewhere in the "summer of '02".
      • The problem Verizon faces is the Forklift Problem.

        Sprint has had to upgrade a lot of software. So did Verizon. However Sprint didn't have to create a whole new network. Verizon needed forklifts to move all the required new hardware.

        Verizon is in 10 cities because that is all they could upgrade reliably in the time they had to beat Sprint to market. Sprint has a major advantage in being nationwide and I believe a lot of businesses will recognize that.

        Also Sprint has an advantage with CDMA. Bandwidth usage. CDMA2000 uses 1.25MHz of spectrum for 3G tech. GSM, however for example, needs 5MHz! Have you seen the prices the FCC charges in the US for Spectrum?

        The bandwidth glut, high prices, immature technology, inadequate implementation of the Telecom Act and the anemic capital markets have all been cited as the culprits for the recent demise of the telecom market. What we rarely hear about, however, are service providers' sub-par services to their customers. The market will be determined by quality of service I believe as much as by coverage. My hope is that Sprint can offer high quality service and make 3G technology available to everyone.

        --P
    • "last I heard, any and all current US implementations of a "3G" system were only pseudo-3G in that they don't offer the full system capabilities."

      Supposeldy 'true' 3G offers 384 kbit/s downstream, while what Sprint is deploying (1xRTT) is part of the upgrade path [telusmobility.com] to 3G an peaks at 144kbit, averaging 50-60kbit.

      • Supposeldy 'true' 3G offers 384 kbit/s downstream...

        No, true 3G only requires 144kbit/s, according to the industry body that decides what is and what isn't 3G, 3GPP [3gpp.org].
        • I remember a slashdot article [slashdot.org] from ~1 year ago that touted 384 kbit/s in Tokyo. Supposedly the standard was redefined so that 3G means different things depending on where you are. My cellphone does do 144kbit and the sticker on it says 3G CDMA.
  • At Last! My sprint account rep has been talking about this all year with the "As soon as the announcement comes, I can say more" routine. Now its time to see if it is worth all of the fuss.
  • They've been promising this since January of this year. Nice to see they're finally following thru, now that I've found a new wireless provider and all.
    • From looking at their website [sprint.com], I cannot tell what kind of pricing they will offer. It seems to me that it will be a part of their normal "wireless web" pricing, which can be gotten with about 4000 monthly minutes for about $60. That doesn't seem so bad for a 140kbps wireless net connection.

  • Nothing really new year but, (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MarvinMouse ( 323641 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:11AM (#4032900) Homepage Journal
    The states is finally catching up with Europe's telecoms... After many years of "waffling" on 2.5G and 2G. Even now, they aren't anywhere near Europe, but they are getting closer. What they really need now is the FCC to give them some more bandwidth to work with (take it away from the media conglomerates).

    I say this takes another 3-5 years before it is as enmeshed as Europe's as well, and even then, Europe will still be heads and shoulders ahead.

    • I hope that when 3G finally arrives it lives up to (at least some) of the hype generated.

      I don't know what the license fees were paid for in the US, but considering that the British economy was propped up with Billions of 3G license money... I'm wondering just how much it is going to cost (especially net return in the first couple of years) the average consumer? The telecoms companies are really suffering because of economic problems (esp. the dot-bomb) and will be looking to this as a lifeline to reinject much needed capitol into their coffers.

    • Re:Nothing really new year but, (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Finally catching up? In a way perhaps, but surpassing as well. Thank god for American capitalism and competition, even if it fragmented the market for a little while. CDMA technology is much better than GSM(w/TDMA), so Sprint should do very well with their nation wide network while all the GSM carriers around the world have to completely retrofit their systems for WCDMA 3/4G.

      Sprint's network really is "3G" which is defined as something like a dataspeed of 144kb/s, although the real throughput will be less for a while. The most you'll get out of Europe's GPRS network is around 60kb/sec and thats the max, which is why it is "2.5G".

      Sprint's CDMA2000 1xRTT network will be up to megabit speeds within a year or two, with only equipment upgrades. Almost all of the new handsets have color, Java, Midi ringtones, etc compared with the shitty Nokia and Ericsson phones. The USA is taking a major step over the heads of Europe, and getting up to speed with Asia.

      About time!

      • Re:Nothing really new year but, (Score:5, Informative)

        by Zarhan ( 415465 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:31AM (#4033042)
        Finally catching up? In a way perhaps, but surpassing as well. Thank god for American capitalism and competition, even if it fragmented the market for a little while. CDMA technology is much better than GSM(w/TDMA), so Sprint should do very well with their nation wide network while all the GSM carriers around the world have to completely retrofit their systems for WCDMA 3/4G.

        Actually, no need to do a "complete retrofit". Or, any more retrofitting than Sprint has to do.

        When doing the transition from GSM to GPRS, you need a new core network (SGSN, GGSN, et al), to process packet data. This is rather reasonable. There is no need to do any refitting on the radio interfaces, except a Packet Unit to each base station controller.

        The next upgrade comes when 3G comes, that is, UMTS in Europe. Now there is no need to refit the core - SGSN and GGSN are the same as before (well, they need a software upgrade, but that is about it). The radio interface of course needs upgrading, but the same upgrades are necessary when transitioning from CDMA -> WCDMA.

        At the moment, it is more of a marketing and business decision than anything else. The technology is there, there is just no market for it yet (GPRS seems to be enough for everybody for now). The upgrades would be relatively cheap.

        The actual model that we'll see in Europe will be a mixture of UMTS and GPRS networks. UMTS will cover cities and population centres. Your phone will sign up to UMTS network and do a hard handover to GPRS network when you go to rural areas - only thing you notice is that data transfer speed goes down. There is no need to set up UMTS network everywhere. I would imagine this is also the thing with Sprint's network...

        In the future, it may even be possible that WLAN techniques will be used as a possible access medium. UMTS standard is pretty free on what the access technology is - in revision 5 there are actually such possibilities as xDSL(!) listed. Wired access to a wireless network core - probably simplifies things for operators that act both as ISPs and mobile network providers.

        Just my two (euro)cents...

    • Yeah, Well, I'm Not Running Out to Buy It (Score:4, Interesting)

      by FreeUser ( 11483 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @12:40PM (#4033585)
      If you are considering a purchase of any kind of internet connectivity, wireless or otherwise, from Sprint, I have some advice for you.

      Run. Run like the wind and don't look back.

      I just had Sprint's 8 Mbit Down/ 1 Mbit up business ADSL installed a month ago. It worked beautifully, gave me 5 usable static IPs, and was a modest $160/month for a two year contract.

      Within two weeks of having the service I got an email alluding to a "reorganization" of their DSL service.

      Eight days later I got a snail mail telling me the service was being cancelled for "economic" reasons ("we would have held you to your two-year contract as a weak individual, but don't even think of trying to hold us to our end of the bargain, and here's a $400 refund on your $600 bill of shut-up money"). Oh, and we'll give you a service that is one sixth as fast (1.5 Mbit down, 384k up) for $130 month, installation waived, because we're such nice folks. Of course, I can buy the exact same service Sprint is reselling (Covad ADSL) directly from Covad for just $80/month ($50 less per month for the identical product!), so that great deal Sprint is offering isn't so great after all.

      When I tried to get clarification by phone from Sprint representatives who apparently knew even less than I, I got as a response "look, half of us our losing their jobs, what do you want?"

      I want the service I signed a two year contract to receive and am paying for, and I want to know what the hell is going on.

      So, long story short: there is no way in hell I will buy any service, wireless or otherwise, from a company as flakey and unreliable as Sprint has proven themselves to be, and I would encourage anyone else considering any of their services to be extremely skeptical of Sprint's ability to deliver.
      • No kidding. One of my clients signed up for the Sprint Ion service 6 months ago or something. Sounded real nice, 3 phone lines and hi-speed internet on a single line for a reasonable price.

        Same as you mention. They could not handle 4 lines at any price, but even worse, after taking 2 months to get everything working right, they cancelled the service less than a month later!

        I'm VERY DOWN on Sprint...

        Oh, and their TV ads for "clear all digitial cellular service" are an outright lie. It may be digital, but it's definitely *NOT* "all clear" or "static free". It's far worse than their competitor Verizon in these parts! (Northern Calif)

        I have little respect for a company that outright lies in advertising campaigns.

  • some folks sure are going to get a shocking bill next month.
    • Agreed, the prices stink.

      Verizon may not have as much coverage yet, but their Express Network 3G [verizonwireless.com] data service has a $99/month unlimited usage (day and night) plan.

      Sprint wants $120 for 120MB, with $1/MB overage. Those rates STINK!

      Maybe on a PDA you can do likttle 1MB downloads, but what is the point? The 14.4 service is almost as fast for your slow little Palm Pilot.

      Sprint really needs to reconsider the pricing. There are millions of geeks with laptops looking for wireless (like Richochet) used to have, but not at these prices.

      The major SNAFU is that there is no off-peak pricing. I bet most geeks would go for a "weekend and night unlimited plan" for $70/month.

      And I firmly believe that Verizon isn't giving it away at $99/month... I mean just how much are you going to use it? Verizon has been giving away unlimited voice + 14.4 data night+weekends for $5 a month... as they realized that with "Unlimited" there is only so much you are going to use it.

      Sprint had a chance, so far, they have blown it.
      • except it looks like Verizon is doing what every other "unlimited" ISP is doing.
        Express Network Unlimited Service and Calling Plans cannot be used with server devices or with host computer applications. Examples of such prohibited uses include, without limitation, web camera posts or broadcasts, continuous jpeg file transfers, automatic data feeds, telemetry applications, automated functions or any other machine-to-machine applications.
        WTF is that last part about, they just described any networking session!

        Also here is a nice kicker that would only exist in telecom contracts We reserve right to deny or terminate service, without notice
        Without notice, great so I can't even shop for an alternate isp, I'm just dumped on the ground.
    • Or CAD$50 (~US$32) for unlimited [telusmobility.com] in Canada.

      The only catch is that they reserve the right to limit you to 100 mb ... so they have already thought about bandwidth demons using it to get onto kazaa.

  • In a releated story from dc.internet.com [internet.com]:

    Mobilepro Corp., with its subsidiary, Neoreach, Inc., a developer of semiconductor chips for third generation (3G) wireless communication services, has signed a memorandum of understanding with the RF Microelectronics Lab (RFIC) at the Information and Communications University in South Korea to co-develop a new semiconductor chip.

    Under the agreement, engineering teams from Neoreach and RFIC will devote joint research and design expertise, staffing, facilities resources, project management, and testing for the development of an RF CMOS, a radio frequency chipset.

  • bah. (Score:1, Troll)

    by nbvb ( 32836 )
    This is no more exciting than Verizon Wireless' "Express Network."

    Heck, it's the same technology, basically.

    And I guess this is great; Sprint has upgraded both of their cell sites to work with 1XRTT. Whee.

    Sure, VZW isn't done upgrading _everything_ yet, but they've got a LOT more network coverage than sprint does ...

    --NBVB

    • Re:bah. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by The Asmodeus ( 18881 )
      Doesn't Sprint and Verizon have an agreement allowing cross-usage of their cell towers?

      I know I have Sprint and I get better coverage across the nation than the people with me that have AT&T or Cingular.

      • Re:bah. (Score:2, Informative)

        by Dan Ost ( 415913 )
        I've had the opposite experience. Cingular seems
        to give much better service nation-wide than
        Sprint. Sprint seems to give good coverage
        around big cities and interstates, but lousy
        coverage anywhere else.

        Just my own experience.

      • i've had the opposite experience. When i lived in san antonio, TX, and had sprint i would get dropouts on sprint when driving around town. Had some rather inconveient holes in thier coverage in the city.

        I switched to AT&T not long after having sprint and have been much happier. Recently drove from austin, TX to calgary, AB and had usable singal the entire way except a couple spots in montana (note that this is at&t's tdma service).
  • Now let's see how many of the unwieldly apps we have today can be shoehorned onto a freaking phone screen. I'll wait till the innovative apps that make it worthwhile show up. I mean would all the crap they put on the news channels these days (frames, quotes, scrollers) be of any use and help at all? No. That's what radio is for. Wow! Now you can pay per minute to see flesh toned blob speak to the latest suicide bombing while driving 75mph in LA giving someone the bird because you sideswiped because you were watching your phone and now they want to shoot you or run you off the road. Shit. Some people can barely drive as it is.

    VonKraken

  • This may not directly apply to the article, but it is cell-related ;). Anyhow, I don't have much interest in the latest gee-whiz gizmos from the mobile companies -- but I do care about sound quality.

    Are there any websites that compare the audio quality from the various carriers? I'm with Voicesteam [voicestream.com] at the moment, and that offers surprisingly landline-like quality at times, but I'm always looking for improvements.

    • "This may not directly apply to the article, but it is cell-related ;). Anyhow, I don't have much interest in the latest gee-whiz gizmos from the mobile companies -- but I do care about sound quality."

      I have this service on a Canadian carrier and the quality is an excellent jump from my previous Sanyo 4000 phone ... unless of course the person on the other end is using a non 1x phone or is not on a landline.

  • The bandwidth is nowhere near broadband, more like GPRS, which I believe is still considered 2.5G. And GPRS has been around for quite a while, especially overseas.

  • Info on Pricing and Devices (Score:4, Informative)

    by zookie ( 136959 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:23AM (#4032985)
    This press release [sprint.com] has much more information on pricing and devices than the one in the original article. Regarding pricing:

    PCS Free & Clear with Vision - Initially ranging in price from $44. 99 to $119.99, PCS Free & Clear with Vision plans will include megabytes for data usage along with varying amounts of voice minutes, depending on the individual plan. For a limited time, Sprint will offer special introductory rate plans that provide more Anytime Minutes than standard Free & Clear plans; allow customers to share minutes with another PCS phone for no additional charge and each phone will have two megabytes of data to use. An example of the introductory PCS Free & Clear with Vision plans include the $89.99 per month plan that features 2,000 Anytime Minutes that can be used by an individual or shared between two people.

    If I recall correctly, 2000 anytime minutes right now is $149, so this could be a good initial deal! There's other pricing for laptops.

    -DJ

  • Nationwide as in: accessible anywhere in the nation or is it Nationwide as in: there are spots of coverage dispersed throughout the country.

    I have Sprint PCS Mobile service and I'm often dissapointed at the lack of digital coverage in many places that aren't right next to an interstate. Nationwide calling area is nice, but first you have to be on the network, and if you travel anywhere away from the interstate you'd better be ready to pay the analog roaming rate.

  • Not 3G (Score:2)

    by rlp ( 11898 )
    3G was supposed to be broadband speed, 50-70 kbs sounds a lot more like 2.5 G to me. The problem with real 3G is that the FCC was supposed to allocate spectrum for it. First it was going to come from broadcasters after they completely switched to HDTV (don't hold your breath). Than it was going to come from the military (this was the plan pre-9/11). Europe's a bit ahead, they allocated spectrum and auctioned it off to service providers. Unfortunately, in many cases the service providers bought into to 3G hype and way overpaid for spectrum. In many cases, they don't have the cash left to deploy.
    • they are now forcing all manufactorers to put digital TV tuners in by 2007. I feel it is a waste, CATV sucks, and HDTV isn't going to make my experience w/local channels any better.
  • this is intresting to see what phones they use alot of a networks success depends now on what the phones look and act like to the adoption of the network

    regards

    john jones

  • Couple of things since I work at Sprint (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    First, it's billed at .02 a kilobyte for usage without a package. Most packages are the same price just with 2, 4, 8, or 20 Meg packages thrown in. Right now the speeds are limited somewhat. First plans they have are an increase to around 1.5 Meg by beginning of next year, and 2.5 at the end of next year. Of course this all depends on if our damn billing system will stay up for more than 30 minutes.

    Oh, and it's not being advertised, but the first 3 months of data is free. This includes overage. Not supposed to mention it, its just there as a fall-back for people who have no idea how much data it reall takes.
    • Oh, and it's not being advertised, but the first 3 months of data is free. This includes overage. Not supposed to mention it, its just there as a fall-back for people who have no idea how much data it reall takes.

      So I'm supposed to believe you, download 12GBs of MP3s, and try to tell Sprint I don't really owe them a quarter million dollars?
  • I guess I need more sleep -- I was sure it said that article was by Simon Garfunkle the first time I looked at it. Now /that/ would be an interesting article on 3G wireless ... ok. Probably not.

  • Beta Tester (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've been beta testing this for our Sprint Rep and comparing it to verizon's Express Network. It's essentially the same, Sprint's always seems to work IF there is a signal, however Verizon's sometimes has a strong signal and it does not work as well or at all. Notibly Verizon has had much better coverage. My pet peeve with all these is the latency, why is it still 300+ms ? I would like to know how the future of wireless be it spread-net, satilight(sp?), or some combination there of is going to overcome latency problems.

    The bandwidth equals about or a little better than what you would expect from a modem, and it IS fairly reliable (unlike it's precessor CDPD). I've used VoIP and even put a webcam in my car's window so my father could whatch me drive around for a day... But performance would be 5x better if round trip were closer to 100ms).

    My 2cents
  • Listen... when I can get my Laptop (Windoze OR MacOS X OR Linux) and sit in a Starbucks and browse at cable modem speed for $40/month, call me. Until then, you can keep your crappy prices and crappy content.

    ***Screenshot from a Sprint 3G Cellphone***

    (1) Weather

    (2) News

    (3) Pr0n

    (3) Sport Scores

    (4) Get AOL Now!

    *********

    Is THAT the reason I want wireless web at any speed on my cellphone?

  • I mean the technology's really nifty and all, but for crying out loud who the hell needs to be able to do all that crap on a two inch screen? Coolness factor aside, what's the point? Wouldn't it be amazing if you're stuck on a mountainside after your car wrecked, and your only communications with the outside world is a phone that died after an hour or two because it was kept busy updating you with sports scores.

    Aaicheewahwah...

    • Datapoint: a couple of weeks after acquiring my current communicative toy(TM) - a simple nokia 6310 - I found myself using said GPRS at about 2am to hunt hospitals in a given town.

      Compared to the hassle of hunting a pen & paper and listening while some insert-female-voice-here noise dictates a phone number, being able to see a little bit of text in front of you has its uses.

      Personally I think the remaining 99.5% of the time this is going to be used is on the executive corporate toilet - anyone for next-gen Snake between the stalls? ;)
      • Personally I think the remaining 99.5% of the time this is going to be used is on the executive corporate toilet - anyone for next-gen Snake between the stalls? ;)

        My snake is staying in my stall thank you very much! :)

        Is it just me or was that the worst game choice you could've made in this example.
  • Right after I invested in a new phone...

    Well, this is nice news, because it should also give the others a kick in the rear to get their next-gen plans working. However, I want to know if all this bandwidth-boosting is going to improve call quality. I still get dropped calls in my home (brooklyn) and in certain parts of NYC I inexplicably go on analog roam for two or three blocks at a time.

    I'd be really happy if this meant I could finally really for real loose my landline.

  • Some vague pricing details (Score:4, Informative)

    by TheOverlord ( 513150 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @11:39AM (#4033115)
    saw this posted over at the treocentral [treocentral.com] forums...its from Salomon Smith Barney discussing the 3G launch.

    "We have been tracking the signs for Sprint's upcoming "3G" launch, regarding
    the brand, launch date, price, and handset selection. Our checks have
    indicated that Sprint's new brand for its "3G" wireless data service is PCS
    Vision, which will be billed on bits and bytes, rather than minutes.

    On timing, we believe there is substantial confusion over the "official" launch
    date. Based on our channel checks, "3G" capable phones may go on sale in the
    indirect channels in stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City, beginning on
    August 8. The "official" launch in Sprint's direct stores may not occur until,
    at least, August 12, and may extend to August 19.

    On price, we find that Sprint PCS will build upon its national pricing
    schematic with its introduction of data, rather than become more aggressive for
    national voice minute pricing. We would emphasize the data pricing described
    in this report are indications and are still subject to change ahead of the
    launch. We have received indications that Sprint will maintain its current
    pricing for national voice minutes, which is constructive for the industry.
    However, the decision may limit the company's ability to improve its share
    relative to the aggressive pricing tactics of its competitors. We find the
    data pricing indications to still be somewhat expensive with a minimum
    increment of around $10/month on the existing national plans for 2 MB and
    likely around $0.02/Kilobyte thereafter. All-in, pricing is not substantially
    cheaper than current data plans in the market.

    On the handset front, we believe Sprint will launch with several new color
    phones by Samsung, Sanyo, and LG as well as with a PC Card, likely from
    Novatel. Price points for the handsets should range between $179.99 and
    $279.99."

    "* Branding -- We expect Sprint PCS to launch a new brand name for its "3G"
    service, "PCS Vision." The service will offer applications such as MMS
    (multi-media messaging), games, downloadable ring-tones and screen savers,
    and ISP-like access for laptops/PDAs.

    * Timing -- We find a substantial level of noise within the channels, regarding
    the launch date of Sprint's "3G" service. Based on our channel checks, we
    believe "3G" capable phones may go on sale in the indirect channels in store
    such as Best Buy and Circuit City, beginning on August 8. New displays may
    not be constructed until the weekend. The "official" launch may not occur
    until, at least, August 12, and may extend to August 19. Our conclusion is
    that August 8 will begin somewhat of a soft launch, with the promotional
    campaign set for, at least, 1-2 weeks later. We find few employees have been
    trained on the service, based on our discussions. Some employees expected to
    be trained within the next week. Also, several company stores expected to
    receive their full "3G" displays from Sprint within the next 7-10 days. We
    do not believe the direct PCS stores are stocking material levels of
    inventory of the new phones, yet.

    * Pricing -- We have learned that Sprint PCS is currently planning to maintain
    its national voice pricing and charge a premium for data access by the
    megabyte and kilobyte. Our data points on pricing are preliminary and are
    subject to change ahead of the launch. We believe Sprint will begin offering
    data packages at an access level of $49.99 with data plans going up to
    $119.99. The company will offer these plans on several new color-screen
    phones with data capabilities as well as a PC-card modem at launch. Services
    will initially focus around multi-media messaging (including digital
    pictures), gaming, and laptop connectivity.

    Figure 1 highlights the preliminary pricing indications we have received from
    our research. Sprint has essentially added a $10 charge for 2 MB of data to
    its popular national price points at $39.99 and $49.99. For 8 MB of data,
    Sprint has typically added $20-$25 to each of the access charges. We expect
    the additional charge per KB to be around $0.02 if customers break their
    buckets.

    FIGURE 1. PRELIMINARY INDICATIONS ON 3G PRICING

    Monthly Charge
    $49.99 $59.99 $74.99 $84.99 $89.99 $99.99 $119.99
    Peak Min. 350 500 750 750 1,000 1,000 1,300
    Off-Peak Min. 3,650 4,500 5,750 5,750 7,000 7,000 8,700
    MB Data 2 2 2 8 2 8 8
    Source: SSB research and estimates.

    To put the pricing into perspective, we return to our VEP, voice-equivalent
    pricing model, that is far from perfect, but allows us to compare the price
    for data services on an apples-to-apples basis with voice. The methodology
    uses average throughput of the data network to convert data traffic into
    voice minutes. This can give us a back of the envelope measurement to
    compare with voice capacity and pricing. We calculate a voice equivalent
    price (VEP) per minute for a given data plan as follows:

    where VEM, or voice equivalent minutes, is defined by the following formula:

    Using average throughput of 30 kbps (our average 1X experience on Verizon's
    Express Network), we find Sprint is pricing these buckets at a healthy
    implied voice equivalent price of $0.70 - $1.13/minute

    FIGURE 2. VOICE-EQUIVALENT PRICE POINTS

    VEP
    Throughput 2 MB 8 MB
    20 kb/sec $0.75 $0.47
    30 kb/sec $1.13 $0.70
    40 kb/sec $1.50 $0.94
    Source: SSB Estimates.

    The sensitivity analysis above shows that Sprint has flexibility to increase
    the size of the data buckets, especially if the loaded 3G network offers
    faster average throughput speeds. As the speed of the network improves,
    Sprint is able to achieve better voice equivalent pricing per minute. Data
    margins will be sensitive to the cost for content and subscriber acquisition
    and education.

    Sprint is clearly trying to hold the line on its national voice pricing,
    which is constructive for the industry and the company's subscriber
    economics. However, its national competitors have not broadly shared
    Sprint's strategy. Thus, pricing is a double-edged sword for PCS as the
    company is trying to improve subscriber economics at low access plans, but
    may limit its marketshare in the process. We do appreciate Sprint's effort
    to differentiate on its service offering, rather than on price, and view it
    as a constructive signal that Sprint is focused on its subscriber
    profitability. On the data pricing front, we believe Sprint's data pricing,
    like its competitors, runs the risk of revenue cannibalization for customers
    that use too much or too little data. We still believe material data revenue
    is, at least, 12 months away given the pricing plans and level of customer
    education required. We highlight the pricing of its competitors' 2.5G data
    services below."

    "* Handset Selection -- We are enthusiastic for the launch of Sprint's new line-
    up of handsets that should begin with at least two color-screen phones at or
    below $200 and a PC-card for laptops/PDAs. We expect Sprint's phones to
    include the color Samsung N400 which should retail for $199.99 and likely a
    color-screen Sanyo 4900 for $179.99. These phones should be 1X voice and
    data capable. Sprint should also offer the Samsung A500 for around $279.99.
    We also expect LG to launch a color-screen flip phone at or near the launch
    date, but we could not ascertain the SRP (suggested retail price) from our
    channel checks. We expect Sprint to deploy several PC-card modems that will
    range in features and price. We expect PC-card modems to range from $249.99
    - $399.99 at retail. The company should also shortly launch the Audiovox
    Thera, an integrated phone/PDA using Pocket PC, as well as the color
    Handspring Treo."
    • The data pricing is AT BEST (biggest bulk discount):

      $1/MB.

      $119.99 plan includes 120MB of data. The overage comes out to $1.024/MB...

      3G on Sprint, where you can rack up charges faster! These prices suck.

      Verizon has a plan with unlimited for $99/month... Sprint can't compete. Despite the wider coverage, these prices will kill the service for the Geek market.
  • Here is the submission I made just as the story got posted:

    Sprint [sprint.com] has just announced their 3G stuff [sprint.com]. Looks pretty sweet, and the prices look to be a heck of a lot better than that ION thing they tried. Compared to the Palm VII service, the 3G pretty much kills that right off as well. Also, be sure to check out the pretty pictures [sprint.com] of the phones.

    The phones look pretty cool, though there is nothing really new now that I go back and look at previous /. stories about things like the Treo.

    The pricing is set to start at $50 and go up to $115/month. Not great, but not bad either. They are saying most people will do the $80/mo plan which gives you a few megabytes of data. Still not great. Though it is still cheaper than what Palm/Blackberry want.

  • Pricing (Score:2, Informative)

    by FuryG3 ( 113706 )
    It's sad to see something so cool being sold so horribly. I called their sales department, only to find that they are metering this service (no unlimited data service)

    They use sierra wireless aircards (no model numbers, i assume 555 series) and novatel C201s

    They had two prices, one was around $40-$50, and the other as $70-$80. You're limited pretty much to 1M/1$.

    I stopped paying attention after they told me that there was no unlimited service. I guess it's "helloooo verizon", cept $1200 a year + modem seems to be a wee much. anyone know of any other carriers (preferably in the sf/bay area) offering these services?
  • So when can I buy the fancy new phones? And will they have bluetooth? Or better yet, can I get the T68i for sprint 3G and stand out infront of the Washington Monument and ask people from Texas to take my picture? :)
  • If I order new-and-nifty phone from Japane, will I be able to use it?

    I'd hope this would be possible, but I'm guessing the answer's no... sigh.

  • Cellular Response (Score:4, Funny)

    by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @12:00PM (#4033271) Journal

    I really enjoy how invariably the posts in each slashdot article about cellphones are split 50/50 between:

    a) "I HATE CELLPHONES THEY ARE THE BANE OF ALL THINGS GOOD AND SHOULD BE OUTLAWED, GREAT THIS JUST MEANS THAT EVEN MORE PEOPLE WILL BE YAPPING IN PUBLIC AND AT MOVIES" (seen here [slashdot.org])

    and

    b) "FINALLY CRAPPY OLD AMERICA IS CATCHING UP WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, FINALLY, WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG, WE'RE STILL BETTER, TAKE THAT AMERICAN CAPITALISM, CELL PHONES FOREVER!!" (seen here [slashdot.org])

  • From reading the first few comments it seems that just about everyone is confused about this 3G launch. This *IS* 3G folks. 2.5G was GPRS which provides data services, but is slow as shit (it can be faster if you implement more channels, but no providers really support more than 3 at a time).

    Also, as far as plans go, there are several. All of which include a few megabytes of transfer allowed per month (except for the cheapest which is 1 meg I think). The prices for overage are NOT $1 or $2/meg it's cheaper than that (though, I can't remember off the top of my head what it is).

    What kind of speeds/latency can one expect from this network? About 127 kilobits/sec and ~400ms. While that isn't anywhere near your cable/DSL speeds, it's lightyears ahead of the 19.2 kilobits/sec that was previously the norm for cellular networks.

    This is NOT meant to be a broadband replacement. It's meant to take cell phones to the next level of service. Using computers with them is just an afterthought.

  • Nothing says.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SomeOtherGuy ( 179082 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @12:22PM (#4033441) Journal
    bound to fail more than charging the same for 100 megabytes downloaded through a tiny screen than it costs me for my car payment. I am not exactly a tight wad. I think my $35 a month for my cable modem connection is the best thing since sliced bread -- but you would not believe how many people refuse to even pay that for home high speed connects. (these are even people in the tech industry...) This is the market that these cell phone companies are going to try to tap for an extra $80 bucks or so to download a few megs through their cellphones??? What are they smoking?
  • I wonder how long it'll be before the RIAA and the MPAA get it shut down for facilitating piracy?
  • Simson Garfinkel had a good column on this recently.

    read as

    Simon and Garfunkel had a good column on this recently.

    which made me wonder
    1) when did they start actually working together again, and
    2) what the hell do they care about this stuff?

    stupid brain.

  • Flat-rate Ricochet coming back up (Score:4, Informative)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @12:58PM (#4033726) Homepage
    Ricochet [ricochet.com], the flat-rate 900MHz wireless service, is coming back up, Denver is just about to turn back on, and the other ciites with those little Ricochet nodes on the street lights should come back on this year.

    Ricochet is about 40-100Kb/s, so it's comparable to 3G. And it's flat-rate, at $44.95/month.

    I had Ricochet service five years ago, and it was quite good. It was a viable alternative to dial-up at the time.

  • "3G" (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BigMFC ( 592465 )
    3G is a bit misleading I think. CDMA 1x is really more of a 2.5G technology. Sprint is following the CDMA 2000 evolution path, from 1xRTT to EV-DO and then EV-DV. Eventually CDMA will use OFDM (like 802.11a WLANs) over three channels to achieve 2+Mbps downstream but that will only begin to happen in 2004/2005. I think GSM->GPRS->EDGE->UMTS evolution path will probably be used by more telecoms worldwide.

    This news is good for the telecom industry. With several countries scaling back their spending on 3G, the day when i'll be playing multiplayer Doom3 on my cellphone seems even further away :(

  • Argh! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by badasscat ( 563442 )
    Why do American companies seem to so not get this whole wireless thing? It's about consumers, and it's about content, stupid! Do these idiots think 30 million people in Japan signed up for i-Mode to play Cyracer or to access Google? Gimme a break! If you look at the wealth of content available on i-Mode, its pricing structure, its marketing (for God's sake, somebody please emulate DoCoMo's marketing, as they're obviously the only telecom company in the world that understands what the term means), then the essence of the thing and its success slowly starts to sink in.

    To use one of DoCoMo's own failures in support of my argument, just look at the slow rate of adoption of 3G in Japan. Nobody cares about data speeds on cel phones, they care about content and pricing.

    To paraphrase that famous Roman General Maximus, "DoCoMo had a vision that is wireless, and this is not it. This is not it." And neither is m-Mode, AT&T's poor attempt at an i-Mode knockoff, I'm sorry to say.
  • Sprint is by far the worst company with respect to service... customer and phone service. 3 out of every 4 calls I make/receive are dropped. I have been hung up on by customer service 4 times and been told that "Sprint will not allow its customers to take advantage of them". ? Isnt that what a company would want you to do???

    No matter what new innovations they come up with, I will never subscribe to or use them. Anyone else ever have problems with them?? If so, what did do to resolve it? Me, i am going to sign up with a new service very soon.. bye bye Sprint...
    • Wow. Hung up on by customer service 4 times? What do you say to them to make them do that? I've never, ever had trouble with their customer service. Do you just bitch them out or what?
  • 250 anytime/3250 nights $34.99/month 0mb data, no LD
    300/3700 $39.99 0mb
    300/3700 $49.99 2mb
    500/4500 $59.99 2mb
    650/4850 $64.99 2mb possible no LD
    650/4850 $84.99 24mb possible no LD
    1000/6500 $124.99 24mb

    To compare to some of the old non-data plans, I've been paying $30/month for 300/3500 for a few years, so adding 2mb of data would essentially cost me $20/month. The cost of data does come down with the higher-priced plans, 50/3500 for $50 was a pretty common non-data plan

  • Unlimited Data Available (Score:3, Informative)

    by tiomapengineer ( 560105 ) on Thursday August 08, 2002 @02:00PM (#4034271)
    " For a limited time, customers can sign up for unlimited data usage plans for $49.99 for the first three months and $99.99 for the rest of the contract term" News.com story [com.com]

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