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Handhelds Hardware

OpenGL Coming to your Cellphone 107

Posted by CmdrTaco from the why-the-hell-not dept.
Little Hamster writes "SGI and Nokia have signed an agreement to co-operate on the development of a 3D standard suitable for all embedded mobile terminals, based on OpenGL. This could be used for bringing real 3D Games to mobile devices, 3D global positioning systems, 3D representations of buildings or even creating entire interfaces in 3D. You can also find the press release press release here."
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OpenGL Coming to your Cellphone More

OpenGL Coming to your Cellphone

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  • the screensize (Score:2, Insightful)

    by mystran ( 545374 )
    Some solution to screensize problem with PDA's would be nice.. 3d graphics look boring on that size of screen no matter OpenGL or no..

    This is not to say that I didn't enjoy playing Doom on a Nokia 9210 .. though the arrow pad is worst I've seen :)

    • Some solution to screensize problem

      Solution calculated - Add bigger screen.
    • The current problem will mobile phones/PDA's is the screensize--Even if they converge (someday) with a PDA, even 320x320 is still too small.

      Even wearables [mit.edu] are [xybernaut.com] struggling [google.com] to get 640x480, which is the smallest screen I would use for anything 3D.

      On the upside, Nokia has a very good history of being innovative in the mobile market, more power to them. If they can get a usuable 3D device to market, I'd buy it.

      This is not to say that I didn't enjoy playing Doom on a Nokia 9210

      I enjoyed Quake [pocketmatrix.com] on my iPaq too =)

  • But for me the main problem with this is that no-one has yet mention how MUCh it's going to cost me to a)get it, upgrade my phone, etc and b)How much it's going to to cost to use it. Cos I can't see systems like GPS, interfaces(on other phones/pdas?) being given away. If the cost issue can be sorted, even if all we get is a basic ballpark figure, then I may grow to be very interested in this indeed....
    • no-one has yet mention how MUCh it's going to cost me

      Of course not. Nokia hasn't even implemented OpenGL/GPS/etc. yet, as far as we know. How can they give us a cost, if the product hasn't even been designed, never lone actually been produced yet.

      To answer your question however, it will be quite expensive. Just like any new technology, until economies of scale have been achieved, and the early adopters have paid a premium, it will most likely be out of financial reach for the masses.

      If the cost issue can be sorted, even if all we get is a basic ballpark figure, then I may grow to be very interested in this indeed

      It seems you are interested already, you will have to wait for it to become affordable though. =)

    • It will cost less than 1000,-

      There you go.

  • Presumably this technology won't be available for at least a few years, considering that Nokia have not yet launched their full-colour mobiles.

    The Nokia 7650 [nokia.com] was scheduled for UK release in May but it's been put back to August.

    • The Nokia 7650 [nokia.com] was scheduled for UK release in May but it's been put back to August.

      I wonder why should they postpone the schedule. They are actively promoting it here in Hong Kong(free trial, booths on street, etc.), and in other countries along asia pacific rim, too.

    • The Nokia 7650 [nokia.com] was scheduled for UK release in May but it's been put back to August.

      No, it has not been put back to August. You can buy them right now, at least they are available in stores here in Finland.

    • I think it could just be supply problems, it hasn't officially been put back to August; but if you go into any Carphone Warehouse [carphonewarehouse.com] store, they will tell you that the 7650 won't be available til August.

      As for the 9210, yes you're right, it does have a colour screen, I was just being stupid and forgot about it. :) What I really meant to say was that 7650 is the first "everyday" phone from Nokia with a colour screen.

    • I don't know about UK, but they sure as hell are selling models with color screens here in Finland.
    • They are available in the UK, although numbers are limited. I have one in front of me right now, purchased by mail order in the UK.

      -Sy/\/apZ-

  • OpenGL? lets make a usefull cell phone first. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Saahbs ( 174999 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:43AM (#3900275) Homepage
    There is absolutely no need for anything 3D on cell phones. What I would like to see, and so far I haven't seen in Europe, is a cell phone featuring:
    - full calendar with appointments, alarms, repeats and no-ringing "timespans".
    - nice T9 SMS entry like Sagems (as opposed to "menu bloated" alternate word lookups in Nokia's T9 implementation)
    - FM _and_ AM radio tuner
    - MP3/OggVorbis playback capability with CF storage
    - 300hour standby
    - flip-out microphone so people can hear what I'm saying
    - amber backlight instead of white/green/blue
    - notepad/voicerecord/simple_finance app
    - GPRS, HSCSD, Bluetooth

    If I could find a set that had ALL of the above I could replace my walkman, mp3 player and a pocket calendar. Unfortunately I have not seen one cell phone that has all of the above. Anybody has seen such a beast in a standard cell-phone form factor?

    OpenGL? Sure, 3d menus, crappy 3d games in 160x160, will wonders never cease... arghh
    • hmm you do realize that announcement like this means it will take at least a couple of years before anything actually gets to the market?

      If they thought the way you do there would never be anything new in the cell phones. Just an endless rehash of the same old features.

    • I'm quite happy with my Siemens S35. Callendar w/ appointments, alarms, etc.; nice T9 even in Portuguese; good standby, but I don't use it much so I can't say wether it's good or not; amber backlight; notepad; voicerecording; 348 Kb for data, sms, numbers, voice, images, animations, ring tones, and you can put there any type of file; GPRS and HSCSD (not sure about HSCDS).

      No Bluetooth, flip-out microphone, radio, mp3/ogg player, though... But check a new model (S45i) that must have arried or will soon.

    • A lot of the issues you've talked about are already taken care of.. (Mind you, I'm in the US)

      * Calendar: if it's that annoying to you, use a WAP based one. Maybe I'm biased since I write them for a living, but you can get your alerts, appointments, etc etc that way, and you can access them from your normal HTML browser too.

      * Nice T9.. The T9 on my Nokia 3360 works quite well.

      * Amber backlight. Check out the Siemens S46. Amber backlight, WAP browser, GSM 900/1900 and TDMA 800/1900. Also has an MP3 player accessory.

      As for the rest, damn, I wish I could get a phone like that too.

      The closest thing I can think of to what you require would be a Nokia 9200 Communicator...

      OpenGL is cool on phones, but I have to agree that it won't be that useful. Eventually I'd like to think it will be.

    • See here [nokia.com]. It meets your following requirements:
      • Full calendar which can synchronise with the desktop
      • Pervasive T9 throughout its interface
      • It's an open platform, so apps will be written to play MP3s and Ogg Vorbis (though it doesn't come with them as standard)
      • 100-150hrs standby
      • Speakerphone & good quality audio
      • Full colour screen
      • Notepad, voice recorder (and voice dialling)
      • GPRS, HSCSD, and Bluetooth
      The only item on your list it doesn't have is a radio. But more crucially than any of the above, it's an open platform, so applications can be written for it to do almost anything you want.

      For example, someone's already written a MPEG 4 video recorder [wirelesssoftware.info] for the phone, which I frankly find amazing.

      Oh, PS... it won't work in the US. But you could wait a few months for the Sony Ericsson P800 [sonyericsson.com], which will do.

  • Two words (Score:2, Funny)

    by VirexEye ( 572399 )
    3D Snake!
  • GPS and 3D-models of building sound great but somehow I believe that we'll only get yet another excuse to pay a months wage for a thing we can play games on.

  • hrmmph. (Score:1, Troll)

    by Em Emalb ( 452530 )
    First of, call me troll if you want. I don't care.

    Cell phones are for talking, at most instant messaging. If I want to play games on a portable, I'd do it with a GBA or something. It's novel, yes, and cool technology. But why would you want to try and play a REAL game on it? I just don't see the interest.

    Sorry for the contrary opinion. If you disagree, tell me why.

    • Re:hrmmph. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by yatest5 ( 455123 )
      Sorry for the contrary opinion. If you disagree, tell me why.

      I don't disagree, but I don't see the point of you posting this opinion. Someone posts this on every mobile phone story there is. If you don't WANT this, don't BUY it - easy huh?

    • Re:hrmmph. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by larien ( 5608 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:14AM (#3900352) Homepage Journal
      Counterpoint: you almost always have your mobile with you. Now, say you're stuck in a bus queue, or actually on the bus and want to kill some time. Damn, your GBA is at home, but with modern phones, you can pull it out of your pocket (NO! I meant the phone!) and start playing (yes, I really, really meant the phone!).

      While it might not be as good at games as a GBA or similar, in many cases it's "good enough". I remember playing games for hours on a Spectrum which had much less power than one of these!

      • ...you can pull it out of your pocket (NO! I meant the phone!) and start playing (yes, I really, really meant the phone!).

        If the musical ringers aren't already the worst thing invented, imagine five people on the bus playing games with the volume all the way up. And yes, I guarantee that there will be people on the bus who don't give a damn about your right to peace and quiet.

        I'm almost positive that there will be, one day, a public place where so many random bastardized classical music ringers will be going off every two seconds that someone in the crowd will snap and do natural selection a favor.

    • Okay I tell you why. I own a GBA. Recently I managed get a co-worker with a credit card to order me a backlight for it. With some skills I have not used in two decades(yes I am old) in managed to install the light and even to close it again. It works brilliantly. I now once again spend an awfull lot of time playing on it and might even buy some more games.

      So thumbs up for the GBA right? Wrong. You see I work for a company called O2 as the web-developer, the cause I am the only programmer for the moment, for their online presence for the dutch branch. Holland was the first country in wich the XDA, a PDA with pocketpc(I know I know) and GPRS, was available. Apart that it is MS and is a bit underpowered the thing has one major advantage over the GBA, QUAKE!!!!!!! Yes it is tiny, yes the controls suck, but it is QUAKE!!!!!!! I have played doom on the GBA, trust me the two don't compare.

      Since the XDA has gprs, and I presume that nokia will also, it has internet. Multiplay anyone? Fragging people why waiting for the plane could make waiting really fun. Only slight problem is that the processor is designed for boring old office type apps and so lacks the oomph needed to play later 3D games. With this move perhaps they will add a simple 3D accelerator as well

      Try not to see this new devices as phones with gadgets but as mobile pc with a modem attached and if you only want a phone that can do voice. ehm what is stopping you? Just keep you're old one youre provider will love you since they will really get back the subsidie they made on it.

      As for those wanting big screen, buy a nokia PCMCIA gprs/gsm card to play online while on the move.

      I hope that someday soon I will simply be able to do quick FPS missions while travelling to work or maybe even a online RPG.

    • How do you know it will used solely to build games?

  • I just want a phone. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Gordonjcp ( 186804 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:50AM (#3900291) Homepage
    A phone with decent sound quality, a sliding 7110-style front, a good radio section (because I'm often in poor signal areas) and a big battery so I'm not constantly charging it.
    I don't want games, I don't want mp3s, calendars, appointment reminders or anything like that. Just a phone.
    I don't mind if the improved RF stage and bigger battery makes it a bit big. I don't want a phone the size of a domino. I'm quite big and heavy myself, and can easily carry a bigger phone. Just so long as it means the buttons and screen are a bit bigger, because it's a hassle to use a mobile when it's cold and you're wearing gloves.

    It's the same with laptops - I want a new, modern laptop, but about the same size as my old 8086 Toshiba. Why? Because it runs for about 2 days on a fully charged battery, and has a proper clicky keyboard. The layout is a bit smaller, in the way that laptop keyboards are, but the keys have a lot of travel, like a normal desktop keyboard. It's so much more comfortable to type on.
    • So go to a fucking store and buy one. It shoulnd't be that hard to do. They're fucking full of phones. Every size and color. What the hell are you whining about?

      I do want my phones small and light. I love the reminders (cause I forget shit), calendars, and the possibilities to play with J2ME, and bluetooth.

      • Because you can't get phones like that. They tend to be getting smaller and fiddlier, with tiny batteries that only last a few hours, and crap radio sections that only get a signal in areas with very dense coverage.
        • ahh bullshit... I just bought a new phone a week ago, it's got a battery that lasts much longer even if its smaller and much lighter than what the old one had. It operates on three different bandwidths rather than two what the old one did. You're just whining for no good reason.

          Smaller phones aren't the only models available. There are plenty of models made for specialized uses. But small and light ones sell the most on mass market.

          You can find a big bulky phone with long battery life if that is what you need. Stop your whining and go buy one.

        • Smaller phones sell better. People want phones that they can put in their pocket, even shirt pocket. Most of the smaller phones use Lithium Ion batteries which last much longer than NiCd (that most bigger phones use). I have a Samsung N200, and love it. I can fit it in my pocket, and it has alarms, a calendar, calculator, phone book, etc. I only wish that they could put an MP3 player in there.
          • Obviously the poster wanted a larger phone with a nice radio section and Lithium Ion batteries. It may not fit in a shirt pocket, but those batteries should last for days (weeks?) with regular use and not have an interface so cramped that you need a toothpick to dial. I assume the original poster also has large fingers and finds most modern cellphones difficult to dial even without gloves on.
            • Got it in one. I don't want to have to keep charging it up - sometimes I'm away from anywhere I can plug in a charger all day for days on end. It's not that I want outdated bulky technology, I want the Li-ion batteries but *bigger*!

              Similarly, I'm not always in an area with a good signal (the Scottish Highlands are pretty patchy), so I'm quite prepared to carry the extra weight and size of a decent RF strip and antenna to get a better signal.

              My fingers aren't particularly large, but I still don't like fiddly, fragile buttons. Plus, if your hands are cold and your fingers are stiff, you can forget using phones like the Nokia 8210 and similar, because the scrolly button thing becomes difficult to use.

  • OpenGL for Linux? (Score:2, Redundant)

    by plaa ( 29967 )
    About OpenGL
    ...
    OpenGL is available on all other major computer platforms, including IRIX®, SolarisTM , HP-UX, Compaq® Tru64® UNIX®, AIX®, BeOS, Windows NT®, Windows® 98 and Mac® OS.

    No Linux?

    AFAIK Mesa isn't officially an OpenGL implementation, because it hasn't been tested, but aren't there any implementations that have gone through the tests?

    Also missing from the list are the newer versions of Windows...
    • OpenGL is available on all other major computer platforms, including IRIX®, SolarisTM , HP-UX, Compaq® Tru64® UNIX®, AIX®, BeOS, Windows NT®, Windows® 98 and Mac® OS

      So what?

    • I'd much rather that SGI and Nokia would get other companies involved (ie nVidia + Sun )to support bindings for OpenGL through Java, so that we can have a fully independent graphics platform, with all the fruitiness of Java and all the zing of OpenGL. (mmmnn, hardware accelerated 3d in a browser...)

      There are some open source projects (http://www.jausoft.com/gl4java/) that enable the use of OpenGL through Java, but it'd obviously be better if there was a major force to push for it to be a standard way of implementing graphics on all platforms that support Java + OpenGL _now_, rather than after they develop this new OpenGL ES.

      btw anyone know if/when OpenGL ES or OpenML is meant to be appearing ? The Khronos website doesn't mention any dates....

  • 3d animated logos (Score:2, Insightful)

    by chefren ( 17219 )
    Most likely the real application will be service providers trying to rip off customers by offering expensive "animated 3d logos", made by summerworking students getting minimum salaries.

  • But why? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gusnz ( 455113 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @06:55AM (#3900303) Homepage
    They won't stand a snowball's chance of running DOOM 3 at full res unless you want them to double as central heating. And OpenGL for a cellphone UI would be overkill, and hard to use -- remember how VRML was going to take over the web?

    But I can think of at least one valid use for this - streaming videoconferencing. Why stream 24fps video when you can run facial-recognition software, break a face up into polygons like a game model, and transmit the facial movements to be rendered on a screen. Lots of cellphones now come with cameras [slashdot.org] built in, so it wouldn't be that great a step up. Or perhaps if it was too cheesy for live conferencing you could have a face "read" text messages to you.

    Any more ideas, or is this just another flash in the pan?
  • Did they say 'in all devices'? That's pretty crap.

    I can imagine some specialised people who might need this. So they can pay more for their mobile.
    I on the other hand don't want or need 3d on my phone (not even my PDA/phone hybrid). Let me rephrtase that. I wouldn't mind it, if it was free. But it's not. And I'm not prepared to pay for something I won't use.

    If they had differentiated the market, I wouldn't mind. That way, if ever the killer app for 3d on a small screen came up, I could get one. But in the mean time, when this comes out, I'll have to pay...

    Oh, I'm a near graduated mechanical engineer, so I can see people saying 'but wouldn't it be great, you could show parts on your screen!' or 'you could show them what it looks like in the machine shop!'. But it doesn't work that way. Most 3d stuff has to be shown either full screen (as in game graphics; you need to see it the way the player would, anything else distorts) or large, on paper, building plan like. The last thing you need is misconceptions because of a missed detail.
    Small 3d is very limited in use for most things except a small Quake game...and that's not as enjoyable as you'd think.
    • It's an advancement of technology. When the 3D phones first come out, the 2D phones will still be available.
      And then, by the time only 3D phones are available, they will cost the same as the 2D ones used to.
      Asking for both types is like asking for a black and white TV nowdays, because you don't want the colour.
      It's just evolution of mobile devices... they will have 3D capability. If you don't want that, buy a phone now and don't upgrade it.
    • Who's forcing you to buy one?

      Stick with your old crappy phone if you're so inclined.

  • <shameless plug> Cool, now we can run PicoGUI [picogui.org] on OpenGL [freshmeat.net] on our cellphones... </shameless plug>

    Seriously though, how fast could this be? I know that there are some ARM processors with built in 3D acceleration.. maybe that's what it's targeting?

  • Battery Life? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bennygeek ( 593642 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @07:24AM (#3900378)
    What will throwing this extra functionality in - I assume an extra gpu to do the math etc. - do to battery life which is already painfully low! How about someone coming up with a revolutionary new battery or power source instead of putting 3d on a tiny screen?!
  • With all the suppliers desperately trying to justify the 3G licences they've bought.

    Now the only thing that is pointed at as a money spinners is pron (Virgin have signed with Penthouse or somesuch already).

    Perhaps if the openGL takes off 3D mapping, gaming etc will be another revenue stream.
  • Annoying little girl picks up cellphone, hotly pursued by dinosaurs:

    "This is a Nokia System, I know this!"

    I call it "Billy and the Cloneasaurus"
  • That sounds interesting. I am curious if anyone out there can point out some 3d interfaces fot the PC,
    • The Quartz Extreme [apple.com] technology of Mac OS X 10.2 leverages OpenGL to offload the heavy display engine to the GPU. You can do impressive graphic compositing this way. Yet the interface is still 2D. Why is this?

      Because on a flat surface the human eye best perceives information laid out on that 2D surface. Until we have a perfect 3D display and a revolutionary new input device (a bat?) you won't see 3d interfaces taking off any day now.

  • 3D interfaces in mobiles will come as popular as they are on desktops these days.

  • ..build in some nice apps like nice smooth scrolling/zooming GPS map overlays, or impressive 3d representations of buildings downloaded from who knows where.

    But you we all know the manufacturers will...
    ..put in some annoying whizzy interface (complete with embarrasing sound effects) that shows a rabbit pulling your incoming SMS messages out of a top-hat or something.

  • This is the greatest day of my life, openGL on the cellphone!!!

    YES!

    This is truly supper-wicked-awesome.
    Take that Russia! um?... I mean Bin Laden (waving fist in the air)

    Yes!!

    what's a cellphone?
  • Now i really can look like a borg, i'll just watercool whatever graphics chip they have, and then when i use my phone to play quake and i get a call and put it to my head it will appear as tho i have coolant running through my head!!!!

    Seriously, i thought my phone got hot when i talked on it! now its gonna do 3d?
  • Now my cellphone can have an annoying "personality" just like the Gadgetmobile. I can hardly wait.

    Thinking fondly of days of yore, when telephones had only two controls and no display, and worked just fine, thankyouverymuch.
  • oh, yeah, it is....that's fine then.

    btw, check out this all-java PDA from kyocera, man that looks cool.

    Kyocera Java PDA [infosync.no]

    "Further distancing itself from other and more mainstream PDA products, the user interface of the Pocket Cosmo is according to Kyocera entirely original with rich menus supporting 3D movement, smooth scrolling and instantaneous switching of applications..."

    more j2me news: lurker's guide to j2me [blueboard.com]

  • 3D on a small screen DOES work (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GweeDo ( 127172 ) on Wednesday July 17, 2002 @10:49AM (#3901519) Homepage
    Some people seem to be concerned about how good a 3D app would be on such a small screen at a low resolution. I think the best idea is to look at the state of 3D games on the GBA. There are a mirid of them and many of them are great. One of the best examples is V Rally 3 [ign.com]. While most of the other racers use a technique called Mode 7, this one is fully 3D in all aspects. Since the GBA at 240x160 on a small screen can look good in 3D, I wouldn't be concerned with the 3D not being acceptable on a cell phone...
  • From: Competitive Comparisons [microsoft.com]:

    > [Windows 2000 offers] Better business alignment with straightforward licensing and clarity of intellectual property ownership.

    So my choices are:

    1) Pay big bucks and be sure of who 0wns me, or

    2) pay nothing (aside from development costs) and not give a rats ass.
  • What's with all this hooplah with 3D? I say, "been there, done that"....Let's go straight to 4D!!!!
    • Let's go straight to 4D!!!!

      Ooops, 3-D in motion is arguably 4-D. But since the display is 2-D regardless I guess the best you can arguably get is 3.5D :-)
  • How long until they sell that intellectual property to Microsoft? I don't trust the bastards anymore.

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